Why The Paper Style Actually Works In The Paper Mario TTYD Remake | Paper Chat

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[@nealezeringue1582]

Paper Mario’s original title was Mario Story in Japan.

[@yolomationanimation9784]

It’s such a nitpick from the other problems, but the biggest gripe I had with sticker star onward was that the visual focus was put so much on such a minimal set of papers, that being your typical flat color construction paper and sometimes cardboard or cardstock. In the thousand year door, they actually try to emulate different surfaces with actually different textures. Wood floors are laminated and smooth, glass windows are parchment paper, heck the computer (idk his name I’ve only played super of the original papers pls forgive me I wanna see this game through the remake) even seems to be foil and plastic sheets which is just so good looking. Like don’t get me wrong, the newer games DO look absolutely great, I’d love to even maybe try to replicate my own diorama of maybe a small area, but I was always kinda pulled away when dirt roads had the same texture as wood bridges. That small change they made in the ttyd remake makes me TRULY think that this paper aesthetic is a great look for paper Mario going forward, as long as the fact that they “can’t touch water or they’ll get soggy” is never brought up again. I never liked that bit since they could swim no problem in past games lol. My ramble is over about silly paper aesthetics, thx for reading :>

[@swordheartstudios]

I love how well the paper craft diorama style fits with the Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door Remake. It shows that the game is trying to tell a story through a book that makes it look very appealing with its characters, the story, and different environments that reflects well from the original game from the GameCube into this remake that makes it feel like a pop-up book. I hope if we get a remake of the original Paper Mario they continue with this style. I didn't have much of a problem with the paper style in Paper Mario: The Origami King, but I do like the paper craft diorama style in the remake for PMTTYD better.

[@Doktario_Mystario]

a crafty art style is fundamentally going to make media look "artificial" but i think that's not a bad thing because i find crafty art styles very appealing

[@Yoshizuyuner]

people will always try to find ways to hate something in general

[@Zelink108]

The funny thing about the original Paper Mario on the N64 was that in the original Japanese version, it is called “Mario STORY”.

[@seasonembrace3624]

While the 3rd entry SPM was a plat-former instead of the turn based thus leading to it being more underrated it did however have most of what fans enjoyed about the 1st two entries (64 & TTYD) such as the colourful & original characters along with an engaging plot that was both humorous at times but also wasn’t afraid to go serious or feelsy. And in recent years it’s been gaining more of a fan following which shows that it isn’t just exclusively just because of the gameplay that fans really liked about this series it was the personality and how vibrant and different this spin off series used to I think. Even introducing redesigned races of classic enemies such as the partners from the 1st two entries or the original raced characters like Vivian or Bleck for examples.

[@JezElectro13]

Sticker Star made it the series' only identity. TTYD Remake devs understand that's not the case though, and make it just the art style, not the sole identity of the series.

[@redfeather-rq9nu]

Absolutely agree! The ttyd remake looks to be a blend between older and modern Paper Mario artstyles without over-centralizing on the whole "paper" aspect while making it noticeable that the whole world is crafted with various types of paper. If I were to have some minor complaints about what we've saw so far, the flowers and clouds in Petal Meadows look less detailed, as well as the background in the windows at HookTail's castle just being a bright white and not having an actual background like in the original. (Like I said those are just very small complaints) but otherwise, this game looks so gorgeous and promising; I can't wait to play it!

[@ethanhawksley9097]

God I’d love to see NPCs made out of stuff like newspaper now that everyone looks to be cardstock, that would be such a cool thing going forward

[@almondjoy4938]

The Paper theming always "worked" right from the start. Reece's video highlights the exact thing I suspected for a while; the art style is only a problem when it relates to the story for older Paper Mario fans. Suspension of Disbelief varies from person to person. Some people can view just about anything and take its world seriously regardless of its elements. Others have a more delicate sense of realism and require more "ground" in reality for the story to be palpable. In this case, the focus on Paper seems to "cheapen" the world for some people such as Reece. He doesn't want it to be the focus at all; he only wants it to be limited to quirky and inconsequential visual gags at the most. Which is a fine opinion to have but that is different from saying that the art style altogether "doesn't work". I appreciate this video for one reason; it highlights just how arbitrary and subjective the entire gripe is. Now my feelings on the subject is once again affirmed.

[@waferdaze8017]

Yeah, I don't think the paper AESTHETIC is a problem at all. It's primarily how it's written. I don't really put too much thought into how REAL an environment looks in Paper Mario, closest that matters was the FIRST Paper Mario, where the paper idea was VERY distant, TTYD already kind of expanded on that, but it also put a lot more emphasis on the stage performance side. The "realness" of a Paper Mario world is far from my mind for these reasons, and the big issue with the aesthetic is just how MUCH the writing actively drew attention to it. There are 2 good ways to handle a crafty aesthetic. Kirby's Epic Yarn uses that as the foundation of the story, Normal Kirby gets pulled into this wacky yarn craft environment and a big part of his quest is discovery of this new world. Or you could be like Yoshi's Wooly World or Little Big Planet, where you don't draw attention to it all that much. Play it straight, that's just how the world works. Paper Mario initially leaned more on the latter side of things, everything is a stage performance, and it adds a layer of charm to it. I'd say Mario and Luigi Paper Jam even got the paper world thing better following the Epic Yarn example. Paper characters are explicitly from a whole other world, they are kind of alien to the world, and that at least in theory makes them seeming out of place fit into the over arching story. But Modern Paper Mario? It constantly draws attention to this aspect, in a sense it's how the world WORKS, but there are a variety of issues, namely that they're sequels, so of course this feels like a total disregard of what we understood of Paper Mario initially. This is half natural to them, while it MIGHT make sense to them, that's not very believable to a more critical audience. The paper IS the spectacle, but in theory it's kind of just normal to the world. There's not anything that stands out when the basic rules of your world are also supposed to be the spotlight, the norms of the world are BORING. Yeah, there are the THINGS, and the Stationary, but that lends itself to the problem because those are intended to be recognizable to the audience. So the other main spotlight in these games are typically just normal house hold trinkets and tools, so it crosses as even MORE dull and immersion dropping. It actively alienates the player where other games try to engross the player. I'd say the Origami and Paint were interesting gimmicks, and I credit the games after sticker star for trying to make something more of a spectacle in the crafted world, but that doesn't subtract the attention put on the basic paper ideas.

[@Level1gyatt2789]

This aesthetic is gonna be used for paper mario diorama dictionary

[@geschnitztekiste4111]

The ironic thing about the Paper style is that it originated from hardware limitations. They wanted to make an RPG with many unique characters, but the N64 could only do so much, so they resorted to this storybook style. If the first game had the character variety of the modern trilogy it probably wouldn't even have the Paper aesthetic because they could just reuse the same Toad model over and over again. So this necessity to make room for the RPG elements eventually replaced those very elements it was originally created to support. Kind of backwards.

[@TOON.LINK.12095]

1:16 this game Going be awesome 😎

[@Level1gyatt2789]

This is gonna be the artstyle for paper mario diorama dictionary

[@marblegarden8456]

The problem was that Mario took a back seat to the paper gimmick. I mean, to say nothing of the bad battle system or bland characters, Origami King literally had us battling stationary. People want Mario RPGs for the depth of story that is generally missing from the other Mario games, not some strange affinity for "papercraft". This should have been obvious, especially after Sticker Star.

[@pyrosolrac2127]

Thank you for saying it. The first two games were not worlds literally made out of paper. It was just an art style choice. It was never the main focus. Hell, in Japan the first game was not even called Paper Mario. It was called Mario Story. Really hoping this remake sells well so that we get more Mario Story like Paper Mario games, and not more games like Sticker Star, Color Splash, and Origami King.

[@crisgames64]

I do like the idea of having paper art style in this remake version.

[@roykooper902]

Story aside I didn't like the modern games art style for the reason that the paper world looked cheap. The paper aesthetic people said was good because "everything looked like cardboard or flat sheets of paper and you could see the folds and crafted nature of the world" that's cool for a game but if I saw a diorama with every piece having a white outline where they didn't bother to cut the characters properly or the floor having obvious cardboard folds that could be done better I would think it was sloppy. When professionals make a world out of paper or crafts they try to hide the fact that it is arts and crafts as much as possible to make it look good. They trim the white paper edges off, they use many different textured material to give their model their own art style, they don't paint a cardboard chunk green on top for grass and call it a day. I had the same problem with Yoshi's Crafted World, it looked like a world of garbage the whole time you ran through. Yoshi's Wooly World looked like wool and looked professional and good, it didn't look like a kindergarten project, it felt like something you would see in a museum or a praised masterwork, everything was yarn but it didn't look messy. The old paper marios could still feel like paper but they didn't look cheap, Yoshi's wooly world looked crafted but not out of garbage like crafted world. The good news is the TTYD remake is going for a style that looks handmade but like they are actually trying to make it look professional, not just "Isn't the paper cool? We made our game have the look of a classroom project that got a B+."

[@aramis4347]

I wanna see Pizza Tower in this so-called "paper style"

[@Charnutboy]

Honestly the simple answer for me is that I never minded the paper aesthetic itself, only how it was used. I feel like people have forgotten, but around the Wii U era after Sticker Star has released there was a lot of fan concept art going around that was basically "old style Paper Mario but with paper visuals." Back before those visuals became unquestionably tied to the new style, old fans were a lot more open to it.

[@phictionofgrandeur2387]

What country do you live in? It's almost 2am where I live.

[@ashleyblack7419]

Origami king suffered from mildly annoying battle mechanics and the lack of character design options I suppose, humor wise and story wise it was fine. Paper aesthetic was actually making sense for once, I guess, even if they didn't make it look as pretty as the remake is going to look. But combat wise it has barely any replayabillity, TTYD shines with such a variety in badges, partners and items that you could run it a thousand times and still find ways to change it up. TTYD has the most fun and engaging battle system in the series. it has extremely well written character but it is outshined by SPM in that department. it has little to no puzzle solving skills required, a 4 year old could solve them, they are just presented really nicely. it came with a good soundtrack but sticker star and later games had more fine selections of instruments. It used very unique ideas and did unexpected things, like chapter 4 for example. it had some annoying backtracking elements that do get adressed in the remake TTYD is primarily admired for the battle elements which have been not been replicated over and over again which frustrates people and well are a massive letdown on later titles. SPM at least had a cohesive battle system that got people involved and want to involve... but the 3 titles after that have battles as mandatory roadblocks and not as fun challenges people want to go for.

[@AnthonySmith-bj9mo]

hi Reecee

[@chrisjohnson9542]

I finally got a switch so I can get this game. Yeah.

[@Ayo0086]

because its paper?

[@saskiaviking9447]

Good video but please speak a bit faster 😂

[@michaelr3077]

the paper art style was never a problem, people just hated sticker star and wanted to find fault in any changes to the series as a way to justify why the game was lacking. Think about it, people saw how good the art style was, but also saw how the gameplay suffered greatly, therefor most people assume that developers spent too much time on art direction that they ran out of gameplay development time. Because all the 'bad' games have the same artstyle people just associate it with being a problem simply by existing rather than viewing it for what it actually offers. Its also complete nonsense that people think that the artstyle itself was the selling point of the game and somehow by existing the games mechanics were made shallow. The story didn't suffer because it was paper, its because it was a bad story. The gameplay isn't bad because it was paper, its because it was poorly designed. Paper marios visual identity had very little to do with how the game turned out. This might be a hard pill to swallow... and its absolutely insane what i'm going to say... illogical, completely improbable... but im gonna say it: You can have good gameplay and stories while having a papercraft theme. HOLY SHIT right? who would have thought they aren't mutually exclusive. Who would have thought being made of paper has no impact on someones ability to have a well written narrative? the old games didn't push paper aesthetics in the backgound because they intentionally wanted a greater focus on the story... that's just the technical limitations they had to work with at the time. 64 looked the way it does because of how it renders objects/sprites (and im clearly aware that 64 specifically was not intended to be paper themed originally, that clearly changed). TTYD did not intentionally keep the paper themes hidden to put emphasis on the story, thats just what they were able to make. Had the technology been better back then they would have gone as far as they are now. you guys need to just admit it was never a problem, it was purely a personal preference combined with a biased hatred for what direction the series (aesthetic not counted) had gone in. funny how when we get a good game with a good story and gameplay we suddenly see the artstyle as a good thing when previously people complained it was an obstacle that restricted the developers creativity... which was also a contradiction since the artstyle being pushed to its limits in and of itself was also full of creativity. When will you learn old man, the problem was deeper than just its visual identity, it was the OTHER restrictions that made the game bad. Believe me, if sticker star had ttyd's battle mechanics and story you'd praise the f*k out of the artstyle claiming how it enhances the storybook aesthetic and charm and yada yada, you should get the point by now. Its pure hypocrisy. The true culprit was the negligence of priority of the story being included in the games at all... Its not that the focus on visuals and gameplay that was the issue, it was the abandonment of its narrative and non-generic characters (along with highly experimental and mixed bag of battle mechanics). I'll say it one last time. THE VISUALS WERE NEVER THE PROBLEM, you just associate them with the bad games.

[@almondjoy4938]

Thank you for laying out the exact problem I have with this video. I avoided it because I suspected it was just going to tie the art style with the worldbuilding and he did just that. While I don't dislike the creator, he did not exceed my expectations in the slightest.

[@michaelquintana2590]

This vid’s washed, the aesthetic was always cool af, it was just associated with bad/mid games.

[@bunsmasterbunny]

It looked bad in those games.

[@michaelquintana2590]

Respectfully disagree