Why The True Villain of the Cell Saga ISN'T CELL

[@AndrewAce.]

Cell is a monster. Gero is a villain...

[@tmtsps12]

@@AndrewAce. yeah cell is the type of person to give alcool to CHILDREN !

[@constantinethecataphract5949]

Frankenstein's monster and the doctor

[@FrancisGo.]

When I do count the clock that tells the time, And see the brave day sunk in hideous night; When I behold the violet past prime, And sable curls all silver’d o’er with white; When lofty trees I see barren of leaves Which erst from heat did canopy the herd, And summer’s green all girded up in sheaves Borne on the bier with white and bristly beard, Then of thy beauty do I question make, That thou among the wastes of time must go, Since sweets and beauties do themselves forsake And die as fast as they see others grow; And nothing ‘gainst Time’s scythe can make defence Save breed, to brave him when he takes thee hence. --Bill Shakespeare.

[@MarianaBello-fq3hx]

Perfect Cell is basicaly Evil Goku.

[@A.Lop17]

@@MarianaBello-fq3hx”stop, this man isn’t Black!” - Trunks

[@TheCronq]

Gero being killed at the hand of his own creations was the only proper way for him to die narratively.

[@johncastanya6125]

@@TheCronq 🤔 explain

[@justinarzola4584]

​@@johncastanya6125Gero was the mastermind of the arc but he wasn't a true threat to the Z fighters(!Except poor Yamcha), 17 and 18 killing him showed that he wasn't as in control as he thought( at least that's what it seemed like before Cell showed up) and to hype up his creations as the ultimate danger Trunks had warned the fighters about.

[@johncastanya6125]

@@justinarzola4584 wow so it's like an irony thing then in dbgt shouldnt gero have a grudge against 17 instead of Goku?

[@BrandonScott-mi5pz]

EXCELLENT LAUGHINGSTOCK MEDIA DRAGON BALL WHY THE TRUE VILLAIN ISN'T CELL WORK.

[@zibix4562]

@@johncastanya6125 he saw it as a failure on his part. Gero, for all his faults, can at least admit when he was in error in his creations and doesnt double down. To him, Goku is the villain of his story. 17 was just a creation that had a malfunction. His only true creations that listened to him were 19 and potentially 16 wouldve been most likely, but he had a one mind track to kill goku and no other flexibility. I dunno if cell would have obeyed him or not(i doubt it).

[@dtay8913]

Hey Mike, so i couldn't comment on your most recent video but i just wanted you to know how much i admire you. I've been following your channel for a number of years and was heartbroken when you left originally. I stayed subscribed in the hopes that you would return and to my surprise one day you did. I loved how you structured your videos because it felt like I was having a conversation with a friend and not watching a video on a platform. You have very unique ideas and takes on not only dragon ball content but other anime and media as well. I was elated to discover that you were also a fellow brother in Christ. God puts people in our lives for a reason, season, or lifetime. I always suspected you might not be for a lifetime, heck we've never even met. Just know whatever you do with your life from here on, people that you don't even know, love you and appreciate what you've done over the past few years. I hope that you keep this up as a hobby and not a career but ultimately it's your decision. I'm staying subscribed to you and although you may never acknowledge this comment, I pray you read it and that God continues to watch over you. To quote Goku at the end of GT "Until we meet again," my friend.

[@SploogeCannon]

@@dtay8913 amen

[@LSMMIKE]

Thank you for your continued viewership, I appreciate it.

[@SploogeCannon]

@LSMMIKE we mess with you heavy mike! Hope you're doing good this post election!!

[@SamsarasArt]

I'm wondering why Mike disabled comments for his newest videos. Discussing the topic of the video in the comments was one of the appeals of his channel. It's sad to see that go away.

[@robertpaulson3897]

@SamsarasArt i thought that was just for me cause I keep calling out his assumption that the first future trunks was the "original time-line" 😆 🤣

[@bobbilly6520]

He is sensitive boy, and that's ok. He just doesn't seem to handle negative comments well unfortunately 😕

[@Charlesg154]

Love your videos. Thanks for all the time you’ve spent sharing your thoughts with us. Best of luck however you proceed in the future

[@NoBrakes219]

Hope you keep all your old videos up when it is time, been watching you for so many years and i understand good things always have too come to an end. I wish you nothing but the best brother and best of luck to whatever you move onto in life from here. Fingers crossed we get to see you a few more times.

[@DEATHxTHExKIDx1]

Mate I wish you nothing but the best mane. Positive experiences and fulfillment going forward in your life.

[@BarnabyJonez]

Love your videos Mike! I will miss them if and when you leave youtube. I totally understand your reasoning for wanting to stop though. Super grateful for finding your channel and I really appreciate your hard work and insights.

[@andrewgarfield9898]

It’s definitely actually Dr Gero. He is the reason for all of this happening. He destroyed entire timelines pretty much. Even Cell had genuine respect for him always thanking him because without him there would be no androids at all

[@pt5728]

So do we just come here to talk about his new uploads?

[@BasementDweller_]

I guess so. I have no idea why their comments are disabled.

[@akirabka8659]

Yeah man. It sucks

[@DiddyKongVsLuigi]

😢

[@chadflanaganCFC]

I'm glad you took the time pun intended to mention super, as it's shown to be a force against them with Goku Black & Zamasu, and even after that the Tournament of Power where rather than it being one universe/timeline being erased it's multiple ones that could be seen as time over correcting itself once more.

[@WonderofU95]

To take it a step further, everyone was fated to die and never escaped their deaths despite Trunks changing the timeline. Goku still died when he sacrificed himself to cell, Vegeta died when he sacrificed himself and everyone else when Kid Buu destroyed the planet. Thankfully things were restored but just an interesting an idea that came up when bringing up concepts like fate

[@TheCanineContrarian]

Bro you're a crazy top tier content creator & its crazy how everything goes full circle with the special

[@DeadxBreadx]

I enjoy your content Mike. I like hearing your opinions about things and it's been fun chilling in the live streams. Whoever life takes you I hope you find that fulfillment that you're looking for. I really resonated with a lot of what you said.

[@jordaneworley]

I love these random cell saga/time travel videos. So good, I can’t wait for the DBS time travel explained

[@gamingguru2k6]

Then Paragus is the actual villain of the original Broly Movie.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Paragus is the one responsible for making Brolly mentally unstable.

[@rjshadow4321]

he was instead of helping control Brolys rage he just slapped a mind control device on him feeding more rage.

[@pt5728]

⁠​⁠@@schwarzerritter5724Broly was crashing out before Paragus did anything, Paragus was the reason Broly wasn’t worse due to the device. Being stabbed as a baby and then having your planet blown up is probably the main thing that caused him to the way he is.

[@MakenaForest]

​@@pt5728by and far paragus made broly far worse

[@kitkat7074]

King Vegeta was

[@jason15212]

Gonna miss these videos 🫡💯

[@joshuaezi3863]

Its sad he is going away I just found this guys youtube channel

[@nichols8924]

Hi Mike. I'm sad to learn that you'll be leaving KZbin as I've just discovered your channel. But I completely understand your decision and wish you the best of luck moving forward.

[@bryantbrown107]

😂Cell and Dr. Gero was both seen in hell watching majin buu fight. ⚠️They never said anything to each other.😂

[@AndrewAce.]

They had a lengthy political debate before the fight started...

[@Braindeadevilash]

They were still mad at each other over the argument that happened off screen about if a hot dog counts as a sandwich or not, I've lost friendships on that one.

[@mike0133]

One of the most underrated thing is that thanks to Dr Gero who collected cell materials and informations about Z fighters, Cell wasn't only a strong character but he was also capable to play with Z fighters weakness, especially with Saiyans confident competitive spirit.

[@EndoScorpion]

But Cell also embodied those same weaknesses and it led to his own downfall. In fact, he was smarter and more exploitative of his opponents when he was imperfect. To a lesser degree when semi-perfect. And just outright flawed after he achieved his perfect form. It's crazy to think that while his power and his body was became more "perfect", his mind and his personality was becoming LESS perfect / more flawed.

[@gnostic.1]

@@EndoScorpion That's a way I've never thought of before. It just shows how brilliant Toriyama really was.

[@mike0133]

​​@@EndoScorpionabsolutely true. Every time he became stronger, his confident also increase and became always more arrogant, ending up doing mistake because of that Sayian traits. But at the end, Saiyan's cell give him more pro than cons, just think about the zenkai after his death.

[@EndoScorpion]

@@mike0133 I don't think his zenkai was that big of a deal. He still died to a one-armed 50% Gohan. The whole arrogance (saiyan and from Frieza) thing led to the Cell games in the first place, as well as pushing Gohan into going SSJ2. He basically did the same mistake Gohan did by toying around. Instead of just blowing up the Earth or killing people as soon as he reached perfection. That had a much bigger impact on him and the outcome than the zenkai which amounted to nothing.

[@mike0133]

@EndoScorpion all true..But without Saiyan'cell, we wouldn't have gotten Cell.

[@C.R.Cole331]

Gero is Frankenstein, Cell is his monster.

[@shrrky_]

Watching this now, just hits different

[@freezasama5802]

Mike you can continiously talk about the Cell saga due to how much depth and story it has, like for the Freeza saga alone you could make hours and hours of videos explaining and analysing elements, the Cell saga is naturally a more complex arc with tough situations and scenerios what a fantastic saga 10/10. Your take on the villain for the Cell saga is very interesting I suppose Cell really isn't villain since he used the true enemy of the Cell saga to his advantage to win.

[@AWarriorofGod-777]

@@freezasama5802 freeza?

[@freezasama5802]

@AWarriorofGod-777 yes?

[@Fastshadow5]

Just saw your most recent video. I normally don't comment much on YT. But I love your content Mike, is there another way we can support you?

[@sicklly__]

Never thought about this or the time echo thing makes me appreciate dragon ball z even more

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Thanks For this mike! Love your content ❤❤❤❤

[@edfrees]

"Judgement Day is inevitable." -Android 16

[@RedMoonLoop]

You should do a video on the theme of fatherhood in the cell saga. You have 3 fathers and their offspring being the focal point. Gero and his creations, goku and gohan and vegeta and trunks

[@brianrosado2333]

@@RedMoonLoop geekdom has one with the themes of the cell saga and touches on this.

[@exia7777]

He will never run out of Cell gas

[@zuffin1864]

Mike, i don't think you will read my comment, but I feel the same way being trapped in KZbin. In a way, it feels like KZbin is the "Time" and things I do to get away from watching it, are ultimately corrected. I get irritated by flaws in other mediums like Television, cable, streaming, much faster than youtube, but youtube, has a slow dull, ultimate meaninglessness I feel even as a viewer. I value your channel just for you talking about anything, Mike, and whenever you release your book, let us know. I will buy your book.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Yep. It was Dr gero. The one who made cell to begin with

[@mattys6106]

Everything you said you want for yourself Mike, I want for you! I really hope your life turns out better than you dreamed. People, lead with empathy

[@EndoScorpion]

I love the time echoes. It shows, to me, that Toriyama wasn't really as forgetful as he claimed. The fanbase is way more forgetful to be honest (assuming they've even read the manga to begin with).

[@futureDreamer4]

Zamasu would say Bulma. DBZ Final Destination.

[@Nury-nkay]

Youre analysis are sooo crazy. Always new aspects that I never thought about even watching the showmregular for more than 10 years.

[@NiallByrne]

I was thinking this for a while too. Goku’s death was essentially a canon event that needed to happen. The fact that Trunks was killed multiple times, It’s like Time itself is trying to course correct itself so Goku’s death would happen and Trunks future would inevitably would happen. Cell was essentially a manifestation of Times wrath to correct the time line.

[@Casual__Chris]

Hey Mike, I’m here from your latest video. Just wanted to say I’ve become a big fan over the last few months and you’ve been one of the inspirations for myself to start making content. I listen to your videos everyweek at work and I love your content. I would love if you didn’t leave, but if it’s what you really have to do to be happy I support you and I hope your next journey goes well. Much love brother -Casual Chris

[@TerminalllyChill]

Idk when your last video will be but I appreciate every one that youve given us so far, Thanks man

[@LSMMIKE]

Thank you for your generosity, I truly appreciate it.

[@chun-bonntang5391]

Not sure what the English version says but in Cantonese, Gohan told the other Z fighters that Goku didn't take the medication as Goku never had any symptoms until now (fight against android 19).

[@marriobrown2865]

this is deep man

[@AM32707]

Hey brother , watched your video about you leaving the platform. I agree it’s changed a lot over the past decade . I will say your videos are very entertaining and I’ve been a viewer over the years and wondered what happened to the diversity in your content , I see now why that’s happened . You got a knack for media , I hope maybe you can take a break and start a podcast and just shoot the sh*t about all your interests . The wrasslin anime community is huge . Just talk about whatever . Maybe not even use KZbin for it . Just here to say I appreciate you and your work , but your mental health most definitely comes first !

[@DemonicAkumi]

The whole saga is pretty much the return of the Red Ribbon... before they learn of Red Pants.

[@solaurelian7638]

Do you guys think Mike dreams about the Cell saga?

[@Miraihi]

@@solaurelian7638 He does, and he simulates various outcomes for the future videos.

[@LSMMIKE]

Do the androids dream of electric sheep?

[@brianrosado2333]

@@LSMMIKE on question if 17/18 have an infinite energy generator or some such (can’t remember the term) do they need to sleep!?! And if they do would they dream or just compute number and equations !? I need to go to sleep lol.

[@smob0]

The androids and cell aren't cannon. It was just an anime only mini arc. Everyone knows the real arc that came after was garlic jr, see look at all these chapters of manga.... And then Mike wakes up in a cold sweat. 😅

[@dylanbuchanan6511]

I have nightmares of being absorbed through cell’s tail. Does that count?

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

The time echo stuff in this arc always proved to me that Toriyama was always a lot more clever than he would've ever admitted.

[@fosho332]

Life has ups and downs brother. And moving on is not a down. It means you are moving forward. Every step forward makes you more wise. Really appreciate your knowledge and calm personality. Just know, that you are very respected. 🙏 regards from Europe.

[@TonyChronicles]

Cell/Android saga is the best saga in the whole DBZ universe!

[@ale-xsantos1078]

Okay I fangirled a bit when you mentioned Days of Future Past because a while back I talked about the idea of time as a malevolent force on my alternatehistory account inspired by your other video and as such besides examples from mythology and ancient roman authors I also linked your video on Time Echoes and some lore explanations of the X-Men timelines as examples of that idea in fiction, so seeing you mention Days of Future Past here was really a pleasant surprise specially since I did not expect you to make a follow up video to it explaining that exact concept and how it plays out in Dragon Ball

[@LSMMIKE]

Glad you enjoyed it. DoFP is my favorite X-Men movie.

[@RitoReyes2033]

Omg i agree with this video so much ig hits so hard.. time does indeed continues to correct itself.. its scary thing

[@tullyDT]

Time can be a driving force, or an influence but it can't be a villain as it has no agency

[@brianrosado2333]

This is what I was going to say… time is just trying to self correct the timeline… it is neither good or bad.

[@exia7777]

Unless the Supreme Kai of time was having a fit

[@LSMMIKE]

Sure it can. Time can be embodied or have its own will based on the story.

[@ale-xsantos1078]

Time and Fate can be or are malicious depending on your view and the story, just see the role played by father time and the fates in greek mythology

[@brianrosado2333]

@ yes you are right in a sense, but those are personification of time or people who control time. But time itself is a force, a constant, a law of the universe.

[@requium94]

Only found your channel very recently. Love your videos and insight. Just subbed so I can ride out the rest of the journey with ya. Cheers and good luck!

[@Sunset2073]

Maybe the fandom is the true villain

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Great breakdown. I've considered for several years that there wasn't really a Villain during this Arc. You broke down conceptually why that was, Mike. Excellent Analysis of Themes. 👊👊✊✊👏👏👏👌👌

[@Kanecobond]

One thing I like being explained and talked about is Dr. Gero's counterpart in GT. AKA Dr. Myuu and his creations, as well as his partnership in the creation of Super 17. That would be a swell video, that could tie in your fascination with the Android Saga.

[@elcidgaming]

I was traumatized as a kid watching the animated Xmen days of future past seeing all the graves and stuff

[@KomradeCPU]

that was very nice, I'll discuss about it with my younger bro; what a masterpiece the cell saga was!

[@dalucke8907]

One could say, they struggled against faith. And without the Z - Fighters, no Majin Boo would have threatened the universe. One planet sacrificed to save the whole universe.

[@marriobrown2865]

this is best plot twist mike you keep my eyes open

[@Evan19900]

Kid Goku started it all

[@trplez6098]

sucks that these are some of your last videos I’ve been watching on n off for a few years thanks for bringing great content ❤

[@KazeN64]

It's interesting to think that future goku was likely training in the afterlife as well. He must have watched gohan and trunks fight the androids and likely got at least to SS2 level in the afterlife as well. You'd think they'd be able to bring him back for a day just to kill the androids similar to how they brought him back for a day for the buu arc.

[@antoniomcneary]

You know for a minute I thought he was going brag on my boy Tien being a villian stopping Time in its tracks when he had no business stopping it and Cell in its tracks for as long as he did!

[@kellentaylor7315]

Never got here this early.

[@LSMMIKE]

Maybe it has something to do with time...

[@marriobrown2865]

@@LSMMIKE😂

[@TophDaGreat]

Last time on CellStock Media!

[@joshwesley-maxlevelphysiqu671]

I've enjoyed your channel man i wish you all the best on whatever is next for you after you tube

[@idreadFell365]

Something that also echoes is Gohan’s arrogance in light of new found massive increases in power and him facing the repercussions of that.

[@zibix4562]

Saiyans tend to have an ego(which is why it is insane that goku doesnt have one), but gohan and all the other half saiyans have somewhat of an ego, and vegetas was actually more common among the saiyans. When super saiyan was achieved, it does have an effect on a person. It makes them more arrogant typically. Something even Goku had to fight. Each form ramps that up further and further. Gohan, the 11 year old fighter that has seen some horrible stuff throughout his life, has achieved ssj2, when also a very angry preteen, definitely had an ago, but it wasnt completely his fault. I will say though that fight with cell probably gave him some PTSD and he wanted peace afterwards. Honeslty considering all the insanity he has had to deal with since he was 5 years old, it is a wonder that he is even half normal.

[@idreadFell365]

@ Goku showed some form of pride in when he gave Cell a senzu bean and when he and Vegeta decided to destroyed the potara earrings after their defusion.

[@ExcellentEmperor]

I can't believe Supreme Kai of Time was behind it all along

[@friendmaker9210]

Oh it's Dr. Gero! Oh it's not Dr. Gero... "It's not really a who but more of a what" It was society all along

[@Aniwazoa]

Very interesting analysis, I remember Mozilla Vulpix discussing a similar interpretation of the Cell/Androids saga a few years ago. The time echoes in that saga is quite incredible. I would have loved to see Toriyama's process for creating this arc.

[@staticshadic]

I don’t think time is the main antagonist of the arc. Time for them gave them both a positive and a negative outlook on the arc.

[@CyberSkunk-pj1eu]

in the main timeline (present timeline) cell was originally supposed to wake up in DBGT in age 788 only if Krillin and Trunks didn't kill him as a fetus in the lab back in age 766

[@jason15212]

I always said Gero is kinda the villain of the arc at least in a Frankenstein type of way. Interesting viewpoint.

[@jason15212]

The time aspect raised the stakes in the arc giving it a level of anxiety that even surpasses the saiyan arc.

[@Mkai28]

I believe Trunks was the main reason why time follows.. All the things that happened in Trunks time, followed over when Trunks came in the time machine.. He didnt have to lift a finger or touch anything, just his existence in another time change things..😅 This was very insightful and never really looked at it that way to this extent..

[@thelegendaryfk7922]

Yeah, it's crazy when you think about it because android 17 and 18 dye in every time line as well

[@pyriel6870]

I meant to comment this on your timeline explanation, but I forgot lol. I wanted to get your thoughts, if possible, on this other timeline theory I heard that makes a good bit of sense to me. It went that first was universe 12's time machine splitting the timeliness first creating the original timeline and the future timeline we know. The original trunks goes back and creates the unseen timeline while later on Cell creates our main timeline. Then when our future trunks uses his time machine he comes to the main timeline. The unseen timeline supposedly follows the main timeline almost perfectly with the exception of no Perfect Cell which eventually leads to Zamasu, and this is the timeline Goku Black originates from. It sounds pretty reasonable to me, but I wanted to know what you thought. Great work as always Mike. Later.

[@BeezydaBaseGod]

Toriyama could’ve written the Final Destination series, with how he handled this arc’s parallels

[@blackheart4360]

Every DragonBall series does something in it's 5th episode. DragonBall- Yamaha introduce and the first spar/brawl. Dbz- goku is killed by piccolo. Super- beerus beats ssj3 goku. Gt- ssj goku vs ledger Daima- revealed stuff and set the mystery tone while also giving us ssj goku. Gt wins the best first 5 of a DragonBall series contest still. Daima 2nd or 3rd though.

[@AminoSpeaks]

I would argue the secondary villain is Fate, 9/10 timelines the Z fighters were doomed except in the main story timeline, and even then when the best possible outcome occurred they got through alive just barely. It was fate that they were supposed to all die.

[@sandwich9082]

History doesnt really repeat itself, but sure likes to rhyme. -Comedian's Quote

[@NotMyRealName6]

The fact DBZ Kakarot added to this with the change they made to Future Gohan's death. Caught me completely off guard and is easily one of the best moments in the DLC.

[@WolvenWeaver]

While you have some very good insights here, I think it would be more accurate to say that Fate is the true villain of the Cell Saga. Rather than Time.

[@shoresean1237]

There is another level to this - of sorts. So what is the capstone end to all this? - 'Free The Future' aka 'One More Conclusion' in the manga. What happens in it? Trunks, prepped with power and training, confronts and destroys the two main androids, and then awhile later, Imperfect Cell in his timeline. Fine. Except - what does NOT happen? Trunks power is more than enough to overwhelm and wipe away his opponents. There is no forgiveness or hesitation. There is no 'power up so I can see what you have'. While taking place over some weeks/months? the action all occurs in one ep/chapter. When Cell appears, Bulma does not trash-talk him or try and provide support, she makes herself scarce after a quick nod. None of the antagonists reveal some hidden power never before discussed. They are all taken by surprise, and no innocent stumbles into the situation (because they're mostly already dead, but still). In short, how is time's curse broken (or at least put off for then and there)? By ending the whole thing with an Anti-Dragonball adventure, breaking every last trope the series has lived and thrived on. Every last Tori twist is held down by the man himself who says to his own ways of doing things: NOPE!!! Since everything the Z-Fighters normally do only saw an escalation in time's corrective toonami, the only way to end it all was by going completely against their own nature, method and manner of doing things.

[@brandonnelson-ey5mt]

Do you think the original Trunks that cell killed was reunited with Gohan and the others in the otherworld?

[@calvinwilson3617]

Why didn't original trunks just go to new namek and wish back kami/piccolo 🤔

[@Daniel-q9f8p]

Yes but time is not just a villain, it is also a hero. We need to remember that the Z-fighters would never have won if it was not for Trunks. And Trunks was indeed ultimately the result of what we found out in the Cell saga; that Yamcha is a two-timer.

[@robertpaulson3897]

So in your head Canon all of DragonBall and DragonBallz we seen was not the original timeline because you wanna make up your own rules to time travel?

[@pt5728]

But we know it’s not the original timeline though, no? In the original timeline they are all killed by the androids, so why would anything else be the original timeline unless you’re saying everything we saw was the original timeline and we just randomly switched to another timeline in the Android saga. Which would be weird imo, I don’t see the point of having everything be in the original timeline but switch it in the Android arc.

[@robertpaulson3897]

@pt5728 i misread your comment.. the original time line is the one we see throughout the show. Saying the future trunks that came and killed frieza is the original time-line is silly just because he was the first to come back from a different future. It's just a different future and the nexus point could've been anything.

[@pt5728]

⁠@@robertpaulson3897 but I’m confused to what your issue in your original comment was now. Because you were saying it’s his canon that everything we’ve seen is not the original Timeline, but hadn’t that always been the case from the moment we learned about timelines?

[@robertpaulson3897]

@pt5728 that's a youtuber thing as far as I can tell. With time-lines your current choices or events create the variance. You don't go back in time and create one you're going back to one different than yours. As you said. It doesnt make sense we're watching a different time-line now. Unless it's stated by the writers there's zero indication that trunks is the original time-line. So therefore everything we've seen from DragonBall through super is the same timeline.

[@YancoxD]

Nice video. Would it not be fate instead of time?

[@cemeteryhill]

Chronoa: "All according to keikaku"

[@EvilLordCanas]

Dr. Gero is definitely the most impactful villain in the Dragonball series. His obsession with killing Goku led to the creation of several androids way beyond his own death thanks to the efforts of his own computer, some of these still appearing to this very day whenever the franchise is in need of another unique threat within spinoff media or games (such as Android 21). Future Trunks' timeline felt the full force of his terrors which led to the development of time travel which also attracted the ire of Zamasu which in return led to the erasure of the entire timeline due to Zeno intervening. Dr. Gero indirectly destroyed an entire multiverse just because he couldn't stop seeking revenge.

[@numbnutt9170]

i always thought it was Vegeta lol

[@ale-xsantos1078]

I will add that all of this takes place after Goku defeated Frieza(stopping his acquirement of immortality) by becoming the Super Saiyan, which might as well be considered a miracle, with Frieza coming back as a cyborg(already similar to the androids) and his father only to be beaten by Goku again and at that point he gets the heart virus with neither Baba nor the dragon balls(Earth or Namek) bringing him back nor him being able to provide help through King Kai(or King Kai on his own) as well as no one finding out about the Room of Spirit and Time as the androids(very similar to Mecha Frieza in malice and mechanization and immortal as far age goes) attack. To me this gives the feeling that some unknown force was always at play setting up a "Frieza" to triumph in the end and the existence of not only Time travel, but the Super Saiyan, defied it's design for reality. I think if that is true it makes sense for Cell to be the culmination of these things, a Frieza merged with the androids that is immortal both in age and regeneration who if not stopped would become the universe's end. It's appropriate too that the way they defeated Cell in the end required both the Room of Spirit and Time, a place where Time does not work the way it is intended and that defies reality, and Goku defying death one last time to give the final push for Gohan - the Super Saiyan of the Super Saiyans - to finally triumph against Causality.

[@ale-xsantos1078]

By the way while not something made by Toriyama himself and thus not necessarily his vision, I do think the Bardock Special(which he liked) also follows that theme really well with those aliens who see the future(another defiance of time) meeting their end at the hands of the saiyans only for the saiyans to meet their own end as a direct result of their success in taking out these aliens while the one who led them - Bardock - tries and fails to change his own fate after obtaining that same power, with the only thing being hinted to break those chains in the end being his son - Kakarot

[@hanshawks5088]

Often talk about Cell saga that's a understatement

[@bryantbrown107]

😂If android 17 and 18 are alive in the future doesn’t that mean that they eventually encounter ⚠️Goku black⚠️

[@selctaaa]

so we’ll never get the rest of the og dragon ball manga chapter reviews I been waiting on those for the longest and bought the volumes to follow along with the reviews

[@insupportofjunhado]

Before watching video: If he says anyone other than Red, Gero, Vegeta or Freeza I'm clicking the back button After watching video: Okay, I stuck around because "time" made me think of that Buu saga Dragon Ball song "Change The Future/I Want To Change Me World". I'm not convinced though, the villain is Gero, or perhaps Red, or perhaps Freeza, or perhaps Vegeta. Red started the Red Ribbon Army for the sole purpose of getting taller, lying to his soldiers, guards, scientists about his true motives. Gero is working to avenge the army destroyed by Goku. Freeza's actions result in Goku going to Earth. Vegeta is the reason Freeza comes to Earth and becomes a component of Cell. Vegeta is the reason Radiz goes to Earth. Vegeta is the reason Freeza goes to Namek. Vegeta is the reason Androids 17 and 18 aren't destroyed before they stop moving, although given the more powerful and actually Goku hating 16 was created before 17 and 18, not immediately rushing to kill Gero was probably right thing to do, if not for the reasons the protagonists thought it was. Vegeta is also why Cell becomes perfect and Gohan gets injured during the final fight. Vegeta is the single most enduring millstone holding the protagonists back, though Red, Gero and Freeza would still exist without him. King Piccolo too, but unlike Vegeta Piccolo Junior was never that bad and actually cared about defending the planet even before then.

[@j_the_kid]

The true villain is Goku, forcing Gohan to fight against his will. Even if you say that "it was necessary to save the earth, there is no justification to giving Cell a senzu bean.

[@POPMaxsterGod]

Cell is actually my least favorite villain. Perfect Cell to be exact. The fact that he gave the Z fighters time to prepare while he just stood there doing nothing was pretty underwhelming. Then the hole dumb explanation on how his regenerative abilities work.

[@youngglow7]

This... this might be your magnum opus!! Never caught the time parallels!!

[@LupeJustinian]

The villain is the enemies we made along the way

[@statiic_hydra8678]

Maybe the real villain of the cell arc is the friends we made along the way (Trunks and No. 18)