Why They Can't Subvert the Hero

[@PilgrimsPass]

Read our webcomic Fractal Fables for free: www.webtoons.com/en/canvas/fractal-fables/list?title_no=999212 The first five episodes was uploaded daily from the 13th up to the 17th of November. The rest will have a varied upload schedule of a weekly to monthly basis until the first season is complete. I hope you guys enjoy it.

[@PanicGun]

Will do man, I didn't realize it was out yet. I'll be sure to share with my friends as well. Best of luck on this project.

[@MrKage-fb2wy]

@@PilgrimsPass added to the list. Been looking for something to read along with Space Boy.

[@hamizanyunos1502]

How do you feel about Arthur Morgan from RD2D? He is often referred to as great and complex anti-hero his ending feels both pagan and Abrahamic. He doesn't get a happy ending but despite that he does good deeds to make amends and die saving his family giving them a chance in life.

[@PilgrimsPass]

@@hamizanyunos1502 I'm afraid I haven't played it. But it looks like an amazing game from what I've seen of watching my friends playing it.

[@petermuller9480]

"All modern stories are essentially iterations of the same 'hero's journey' idea". You yourself disproved this claim in your own video by pointing out several ancient greek myths/stories, that just simply didn't fulfil MANY of the prerequisites that would make them count as such. Is a murder mystery a hero's journey? NO, it isn't! The same goes for modern romance stories. Just because Twilight kind of fits into that mold doesn't mean anything, because that story in particular is VERY unusual for a romance. I think you are just confused about what FOCUS means. A modern romance is focussed on a relationship (or several relationships). It is NOT about the action, a journey, a quest, "doing the right thing", or about saving the world, like Campbell's theory of the monomyth (="the hero's journey") defines it. The solution to your confusion about this entire matter is actually quite simple: Campbell was wrong. There is no SINGULAR blueprint, that each and every story copies from. That claim is just a gross oversimplification. Try pondering this for a while, please. Campbell is not a God, who put some unshakable truth down on paper. No, he simply looked at many myths from different cultures, tried to find the commonalities and wrote those down, calling his final result "the hero's journey". By doing this, he left out EVERYTHING, that didn't fit the mold, which was a WHOLE LOT. Not every story fits that scheme and that is a GOOD thing. Not every story is a hero's journey. Try thinking for yourself instead of just clinging to ONE MAN'S work and citing it like the holy scripture.

[@xandercorp6175]

It's almost as if heroism isn't just a matter of fashion, but a real entanglement between the world and one's mettle.

[@SenseiLlama]

But that implies a hero may have flaws!

[@andrewgreeb916]

​@@SenseiLlamaflaws are what help us grasp the character, ever tried climbing a perfectly smooth surface?

[@AllanTidgwell]

​@@SenseiLlama name one human who doesn't have flaws The point isn't to be perfect, but to do what is right because it is what's right

[@ONEPEAKFRFR]

​@@SenseiLlama😂😂😂

[@KopperNeoman]

@@AllanTidgwell ...Hmm. Jesus. But He's also God, so that's kinda cheating innit?

[@huntergallant5655]

For a deconstruction to work, the creator has to truly understand the genre they're deconstructing. The reason so many modern deconstructions suck is because they're written out of spite and contempt for something they don't understand. Modern writers either don't understand or actively despise the heroism and virtues shown in more traditional stories, so they seek to attack and mock those things.

[@ezraho8449]

When it’s done well usually it isn’t actually deconstruction and more a twist on the regular formula. As an example Evangelion is a super robot story but the hero rejects the call to action and it leads to a tragic ending. In fact most people just associate tragic endings with subversion most times because they are so uncommon nowadays outside of horror films.

[@filiptang113]

Deconstruction when is used well is like picking apart a clock to find out how it works and reconstruction when used well is using that knowledge and putting the clock back together. In Evangalion for example it shows what happens when a teenager is put in a life or death situation and what kind of situation would require such a desperate measure. In My Hero Academia it shows the ramifications of 90% of people getting superpowers, what kind of role superheroes would have in the society and more importantly, what superpowers is going to affect systemic issues.

[@reganbeazley5810]

*cough cough* The Boys *cough cough*

[@AllanTidgwell]

It's also why modern spoofs are trash too

[@J__T]

I once read that GRRM started "A Song of Ice and Fire" in spite of the ending to "The Lord of the Rings" which I know, from my own experience, you don't start long term things that you have very little passion for and the fires of contempt, for most people, don't often burn long. I disagree about Evangelion. Yes, Shinji's entire character is to ignore the call of action, but it's not a tragic ending for the majority of characters, Shinji included - especially if we're talking about the original anime. Now, I heavily disagree and disapprove of the creator's outlook about his own fans and how he wanted them to act versus the reality of the situation. In years past, Anno has once said Evangelion is about waking up out of fictional escapism and that he chiefly disapproves of his fans getting hooked on Eva. While My Hero does do all those things, I often find MHA to be a deconstruction, whether intended or not, of the repeated issue that created Syndrome in "The Incredibles." The repeated line of 'everybody's special which means no one actually is' is used by several characters in different situations most notably such as Helen to Dash about why he can't try out for track and Syndrome who says he'll sell his inventions so that 'when everyone's super, no one will be.' My Hero is a deconstruction of this ideology because of Deku and how it is repeated quite often that even when he had zero power i. e. quirkless among an 80% powered world, he still acted when no one else would thus proving to be special or super in a way none of his peers can compare. Tho, even with that said, there is no technical quirkless hero in MHA as of yet. Um, no, "The Boys" is less of a deconstruction and more of a dig at overused tropes thus becoming the very thing it's supposedly a deconstruction of. This includes the comics.

[@TheLionheart49]

I think C.S Lewis described best why chivalry cannot die, in his essay the Necessity of Chivalry, "The medieval ideal brought together two things which have no natural tendency to gravitate towards one another. it borught them together for that very reason. It taught humilty and forebearance to the great warrior because everyone knew by experience how much he usually needed that lesson. It demanded valour of the urbane and modest man because everyone knew that he was as likely as not to be a milksop. In doing so, the Middle Ages fixed on the one hope of the world."

[@jackagonis9302]

Just want to say that in Conan stories, while he is no knight in shining armor, he does possess his own brand of chivalry. Exemplified by him always keeping his word.

[@fafnirdragonbane3625]

And always went out of his way to save the girl over the fact that they were a girl. He's also specifically chosen to oppose Set in The Phoenix on the Sword. Oh and is a king who wears shining armor and leads knights into battle in like 20% of Howard's stories about him.

[@jackagonis9302]

@@fafnirdragonbane3625 don’t forget when he was chained up and at the mercy of a evil sorcerer, but when given the temptation to escape at the cost of abandoning his kingdom, he chose to not betray his kingdom. I especially love that after doing so he states how he should have chosen to betray his kingdom to survive but admits that if he had a chance to retake the offer, he would say that exact same thing. From the scarlet citadel specifically.

[@gregmita]

And he constantly derides the "sophisticated, civilized men" who are full of deceit and sophistry.

[@gonzalogonzalez2585]

I think he could be categorized as a pre-Christian chivalric character.

[@jackagonis9302]

@@gonzalogonzalez2585 considering he was chosen by Mitra (aka Hyborian Christian god) to help protect a kingdom from a reanimated sorcerer king, that is very accurate

[@crocs4304]

Imo the biggest reason subverting the hero archetype fails so often is because Hollywood writers who attempt it have 0 ‘heroic’ qualities and are pretty much just pathetic and spiteful therefore failing to even grasp superficially what heroic virtues and the archetype is

[@ernimuja6991]

It’s like having Grima Wormtongue write a heroic king character.

[@MusicFan752]

The only way to have it work honestly I think is to just not have the trope or rather have them as failed heroes but not completely, like it’s less of them failing and more so they’ve done what they needed to do, they’re getting overwhelmed by a newer threat and it’s time someone else took their place. I know it’s become cliche in comics and sometimes movies that the original hero or main hero would make a return doing what they normally do best, this is ESPECIALLY TRUE in comics, but time moves forward no matter what the events or circumstances that happen and eventually someone else becomes the new hero. It really makes it a shame that last Jedi attempted it but had such a jaded view to the older generation while pushing for the newer one as if the older ones just flat out sucked yet the newer generation didn’t show anything promising themselves, thanks a lot reean Johnson.

[@harbl99]

"I'm gonna make the hero a guy like me. That'll show them!" snerked the asthmatic little nebbish, not realising that his 'creative re-interpretation' of heroism will be rejected out of hand because _it is inherently unheroic_

[@Kiedra-hp1bu]

They often write self inserts, which is pretty narcissistic. Then the characters serve the "hero", instead of the hero serving others, which is how it should be. So yeah, I think you're right on this one

[@MusicFan752]

@@harbl99 well.....yes and no. Funny enough George Lucas kind of had that mindset when thinking of Luke Skywalker for Star wars, a big difference I'd say is that he didn't let his ego get the better of him or the writing to the story and still kept Luke as his own character that changed quite a lot from episode 4 to a young adventure seeker, to a wise warrior tempered by his experience and ideals.

[@benjaminconnor6640]

I too find it Ironic that Alan Moore is Annoyed by his own readers choosing Rorschach over Ozymandias. It's always funny.

[@nont18411]

Why did he think the readers will sympathize with a rich billionaire on an ivory tower who committed genocide for the so-called “greater good” over a downtrodden traumatized guy who killed criminals and doesn’t compromise in the face of adversity? The difference in relatability between these two is night and day.

[@HeroOfTheHolySword]

I hope you're not implying that Alan Moore wanted people to choose Ozymandias. He's not meant to be a hero either. What he did is absolutely meant to be seen as appalling and monstrous. The point is largely that NONE of the Watchmen were what a normal person would consider heroic.

[@benjaminconnor6640]

@@HeroOfTheHolySword I'm trying to remember the interview, but, somebody Did try to argue that and was shot down on all sides. Not sure if it was Moore or some edge turd that read his book tho

[@HeroOfTheHolySword]

@@benjaminconnor6640 I mean, Ozymandias was named after a guy whose only known legacy is a quote "look upon my works and despair," which is meant to be a play on how nothing lasts (since, indeed, Ozymandias' works didn't last). Moore very deliberately chose that, and if I remember right, the origin of the name was even alluded to in the book. It's very clear to someone who can read between the lines that Ozymandias isn't meant to be seen as heroic or aspirational.

[@chaosgyro]

Nah, Moore believes the West is fascist for taking such a hard, militaristic stance during the Cold War. Moore may not want us to believe Ozymandias is a "hero", but Moore certainly wants us to believe he is correct in ending the threat of nuclear war by any means necessary.

[@sirrogerjalbert]

Martins perfect subversion plan is never finishing his books.

[@mrtyrant1680]

Everyone pretty much expect him to drop dead at any time and leave the series unfinished.

[@jackielogan9104]

@@mrtyrant1680 and then someone like Brandon Sanderson who understood the books best will be in charge of writing the final books.

[@bassforhire555]

...you make me sad.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Again ​@@jackielogan9104

[@qaztim11]

The true subversion would be to tease a nihilist ending and third act but have it be a non-standard but familiar heroes journey finale for our main PoV characters where they confront their antagonists with a climatic face-off (maybe they fail, but inspire others who do succeed) and leave the world in a better position than what came before.

[@jamesdavey9690]

It's comforting to be reminded that no matter how much some people insist chivalry is dead, it's not so easy to kill off.

[@nurrohmatadiputra5378]

Because the essence of chilvary is the good, the beauty, and the true. It may be boneheaded, even detrimental to pursuit such value at times, and different people and different culture put different emphasis in between the three. However regardless of time, those three value would always arise in the form of culture as human would always intrinsically seek out those three value (even if it may be in perversed form).

[@jamesdavey9690]

@nurrohmatadiputra5378 well said!

[@PrincepsAshitaka]

What if, maybe, chivalry never truly existed?

[@deadgunslinger8489]

​@@PrincepsAshitakawell it exists. In fictional stories. Its more of a symbol than something that Knights (or anyone) did.

[@jonathanspivey437]

@@PrincepsAshitaka if something exists, but only as an idea, an aspiration; does it truly exist? Because thats what chivalry is. The only perfect man was Jesus.

[@knightofarnor2552]

If Cervantes couldn't kill chivalry, sure as shit that not one of the hacks trying to do it right now will pull it off.

[@gryphonbotha1880]

"To dream the impossible dream" intensifies

[@HolyknightVader999]

Cervantes wasn't meant to kill chivalry, but honor it while making a few jokes here and there. It's the difference between roasting someone in a way that's still respectful to them, and outright hatred for something.

[@hyperion3145]

Cervantes wasn't trying to kill chivalry, just showing how writers in his day had made it almost nonsensical and unhinged. Cervantes himself said Tyrant lo Blanc was his inspiration and one of the best books ever written.

[@XanderVJ]

Except Cervantes DID kill chivalry. Remember all the Spanish chivalry books the video mentions? Not a single one remains in the Spanish cultural zeitgeist. NOT. A. SINGLE. ONE. Unfortunately, Don Quijote's cynic side is what is more valued by Spanish academia, so nobody has even tried to make straight chivalry stories in the Spanish tradition, to the point we don't have any tradition to draw from after Don Quijote. None whatsoever. Granted a lot of that is also down to history. Spain has barely caught a break in the last 200 years, but even in the small break we got in the 1980s and 90s the biggest "heroic" stories were from freaking Arturo Pérez Reverte, who isn't as cynical as Cervantes was, but he's quite damn close (he was a war journalist before becoming a writer, instead of a solider).

[@tell-me-a-story-]

At this point a genuinely good hero who just wants to help people would be the subversive thing.

[@MM22966]

Some of the Superman movies were like that (Man of Steel, etc), but there were still jarring "modern" notes. (i.e. he killed Zod)

[@nont18411]

That’s why I like The Penguin so much. The old school villain who’s just evil is back. Soon the classic hero who’s just good will be back as well.

[@MusicFan752]

@@MM22966well that and Zach Snyder let his inner frank miller fanboy cut loose, this can especially be seen in Batman v Superman. Honestly it wouldn’t be a bad thing per say as there was some good writing ideas to Batman the dark knight, the problem is that Snyder ignored the proper writing parts and focused on the visuals, kind of like reean Johnson.

[@quinnfletcher3906]

Maybe that is why Demon Slayer is so popular?

[@MusicFan752]

@@quinnfletcher3906 nope cause people still bash on tanjiro being a bland generic good guy character. Personally, I’m fine with it cause shonen MCs did have the delinquent trait for awhile, but also cause tanjiros kindness feels more natural, like he’s friendly nice and sympathetic to others but he’s not a complete dunce about it like preaching for peace, being passive in battle, or just talk no jutsus his enemies to join him. He wears his character traits on his sleeve cause it’s how he truly feels and comes off less of a generic cardboard cutout and more of a while not interesting character an entertaining character.

[@douglasknupp4574]

All my heroes did tax evasion

[@BobBurnham-o6w]

Yoshisaur Munchakoopas

[@aquapendulum]

The heroes we admire didn't cast away the shining armor. The shining armor is just upgraded with modern metallic alloys, jetpacks, mounted cannons and nanomachines, son!

[@JacF6734]

"Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting. Ever." -- Superman

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

One if the best superman quotes. Absolutely loved that movie.

[@Sorain1]

Seeing that film adaptation of the comicbook story and really understanding the structure and value of it, is worth any writer for any medium's time and effort.

[@brianboru2762]

Funny thing about Don Quixote is that AFAICT, the idea of someone being considered a crackpot for trying to live up to a moral code in a fallen is still admirable in some corners of the internet. The Man of La Mancha might be a nut, he's a nut with a point.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

I've always admired that about him.

[@LucienEN]

@@brianboru2762 Don Quijote was written to be pathetic but over time he has become endearing.

[@gonzalogonzalez2585]

The brilliance of Quixote is that in the second volume, the world is presented as unironically enchanted and chivalrous as he had perceived it in the first volume. In essence, he is "crazy" or "delusional" for seeing great castles in taverns, noble maidens in peasant girls, and mages in a traveling troupe in the first half of the story; but when he has "returned to reality" and forsworn his "fantasies", the world validates his previous impressions. It's masterful, funny, tragic, and quite relevant to all people in times of moral or cultural crisis.

[@voxsvoxs4261]

A note on Hector and Illiad, Hector is clearly respected by the Greeks, his body was preserved by Zeus for his piety so that even while Achilles dragged his body, it wouldn't damage it. Zeus also sent Priam with Hermes to retrieve Hector's body so he could have a proper funeral (I think it was 11 day funeral). In other words, Hector was clearly appreciated by the Greeks. I want more respect for Homer and the original epic dag nabbit.

[@Squirrelforgood]

Miguel Cervantes was really HIM, lived through the chivalry concept, hated it for most of his life, then realized there was meaning in trying to be a hero. The best hero stories are the ones that find their own reason for suffering and still keep moving forward

[@therealdogofgaming6055]

2 videos in 2 weeks this is unheard of

[@EthanMallonee]

Ikr, I wasn't expecting another for a few months

[@duncanharrell5009]

The end must be nigh

[@AllanTidgwell]

Tap twice if being held hostage

[@LucienEN]

The extent to which medieval and renaissance Spain is cut out of modern histories is borderline evil.

[@johnnydollar579]

And why do you think they do it?

[@LucienEN]

@johnnydollar579 Anglos , Protestants and J***s have bone to pick with them. For obvious historical reasons.

[@Raximus3000]

El Sid comes to mind...

[@michaelman957]

Agreed

[@AzureSymbiote]

@@johnnydollar579 Catholicism. They also didn't receive help from the Allies when they were fighting Communists in their Civil War.

[@scrOOOOOge-t1o]

I like your analysis of watchmen a lot. Personally, I really like Rorschach, I just wish his mask didn't have a picture of my parents fighting on it.

[@BeachandHills-hb2pq]

Rorschach is great. I see ??? 😅

[@rodrigof.5956]

A note on Miguel de Cervantes, he didn't really go to jail for tax evasion. He managed to get a job as a tax collector by asking for help to the king and telling him he fought in Lepanto, the thing is he was bad at math and he went to jail for that.

[@rodrigof.5956]

Also he wrote the second part of Don Quijote in part because another author (Alonso Fernandez de Avellaneda) wrote the "second part". Also Quijote dies at the end to make it impossible for someone to write a third part.

[@PilgrimsPass]

indeed you're correct. its why I put "*embezzlement" on screen. A bit lazy I know but I needed to upload this quickly.

[@Otto_Von_Beansmarck]

"Bad at math" is the most hilarious possible reason for embezzlement 💀

[@rodrigof.5956]

@@PilgrimsPass Understandable, I just made this comment because my High School teacher told us and I find it really funny.

[@Smarod]

Cervantes first day at the office as a tax collector: im in danger

[@Lauren007E]

Honestly I think Superman is the best example for why subversion is a cheap gimmick. Which is more inherently interesting? An all powerful tryant who uses people for his own amusement and enslaves the world through force or lies. Or the alien refugee who embraces his adoptive people and does what he can to make the world a better and brighter place because he has the power to do so. So humble he's willing to be seen as a clumsy oaf because he's has to be so careful not to damage the world around him? Kindness is always more interesting than selfishness in the long run. You can't get 85+ years of stories from a selfish character who does whatever he wants because he can.

[@JSHADOWM]

> does what he can Bullshit. Your meta analysis skills are trash, fam. Superman might have started this way, Back when he was "made of steel", could "leap over buildings" and could "outrun a locomotive", and thus was mindbogglingly impressive but limited, but this is no longer true. it hasnt been true for at least 36 years. post crisis superman is a being capable of going at least 10 times the speed of light and having the reflexes to not run into anything. A being with laser cannons for eyes who is impervious to everything that isnt made from a shard of his planet. The fact that his world looks so similar to ours means he is a neutered lapdog who doesnt care about doing good. He might catch falling planes and beat doomsday every weekend or so, but his output is frankly pathetic. Lazy bastard might as well be neighborhood watch for how little he affects his world.

[@TheManFromJupiter]

Brilliant, you can only be an evil tyrant for so long until it gets old and stale

[@Lauren007E]

@TheManFromJupiter subversion proves the rule in this case

[@spyro2002]

Honestly in a way having all that power and using it for good is itself the true subversion, as in real life you'd expect someone like that to get all high in their head.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

100%.

[@michaelman957]

Thank you for telling me Cervantes' FULL story. I used to have a philosophical bone to pick with him over the long term negative effects of his cynical story, but now I understand why he wrote it and see that it wasn't the end. If only his final work was better known.

[@AllanTidgwell]

Wait, why did you think it was cynical? This is the first time I've ever heard Don Quixote called cynical. Sure, there are cynical characters in the story. But they were foils. You don't say a detective story is pro-crime because criminals are in the story

[@BobBurnham-o6w]

@@AllanTidgwell Because Don Quixote IS a story with a cynical bent. The story is all about an over-the-hill dork doing a last-ditch effort to be a "hero" in a world filled with people who don't need him and weren't hoping to meet him but are happy to school him. His delusions get worse as the world around him defies the role he's trying to play in it. The harder he tries, the more delusional he appears to the other characters he meets. The story is all about how silly he is. Not for "trying", but for trying and failing. And failing because he was willing to gamble away the remainder of his life for something totally vain and unheroic. The other characters aren't sympathetic to his desire to be heroic, and he's not sympathetic to their misunderstanding and contempt for him. That's the point of the story. Some people become "heroes" just to stomach themselves and it's a shame that so many people fall for the promise of distinction cloaked in the veneer of service to others.

[@XanderVJ]

@@AllanTidgwell You haven't had many conversations about Don Quixote, then.

[@Oblivius33]

Funnily enough even don Quixote has been getting his heroic do-over. In The Man from La Mancha his actions seem to inspire the woman that in his eyes was Dulcinea and Sancho, and when he visits him on his deathbed, the moment he recollects the adventures he had he reverts back to his heroic self and dies singing in the arms of those he inspired. It's a hero journey in it's own right.

[@XanderVJ]

The Man from la Mancha is an American reinterpretation of the original book which goes totally against what the book was going for. Which is part of the course of American popular culture, I guess.

[@Cogito-r6n]

I’m glad more people are calling out the boys for the slop that it is, keep up the good work!

[@Michael-tn9wp]

Subverting stories always gets painted as the smarter version when, in fact, it's a bastardized version of the OG. And yes, Alan Moore is arrogant aristocratic prick and he doesn't know it.

[@randomaccount7815]

took them long enough. i realized the boys was slop all the way back at season 2.

[@Cogito-r6n]

@ Yeah, it dropped in quality massively when Kripke started running the show

[@andrade9172]

Jon Snow always felt like a pretty straightforward chosen one, at least in the books. The show probably gutted his arc tho

[@chrismeyers4836]

I think he’s a little more morally gray in the books, but I’m only on AFFC. 🤷‍♂️

[@IngenieroBasado]

A lot un mi opinión​@@chrismeyers4836

[@adamnesico]

Well, the series presented him as a chosen one more than the books.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

Gotta be subversive for the sake of it in modern media.

[@ghoulishfool]

Bran honestly fits the hero’s journey arc way more than any other character. He even idealizes the chivalric stories of knights and constantly thinks about Old Nan’s stories about heroic knights and monsters. There’s a great video by Quinn’s Ideas that goes over Bran’s story and the monomyth (another name for Campbell’s hero’s journey). Check it out, you’d like it!

[@antirevomag834]

To summarize this video up: you can't subvert the genre of chivalry, because to do so would be to subvert the concept of nature itself.

[@eldermillennial8330]

41:18 You’re forgetting an important duo: The Brothers Chesterton: Cecil & Gilbert K. GK Chesterton’s obesity made him ineligible to enlist (although he tried), but he was in constant correspondence with his younger brother Cecil until his death in combat (he ALMOST made it to the end of the war, too), and as his proxy, was able to contribute to the same kind of expression about chivalry that these other fine gentlemen learned from their Great War experiences.

[@ericmarley7060]

"He lived long enough to march to the victory which was for him a supreme vision of liberty and the light."

[@orboakin8074]

Great video as always, friend😊👍 Another point for why heroism and chivalry isn't easily subverted os it's universality. Here in Nigeria, the most popular fictional characters are Superman, Batman and Spiderman because their heroism appeals to us despite our cultural differences from Americans. Also, due to the hard socioeconomic and security issues here, we love characters who embody hope, optimism and a dedication to helping others and fighting evil. That's also why wokeness doesn't appeal much to us here.

[@KopperNeoman]

Americans spring from a mythology of an oppressor Britain (the reality was far more realpolitik) while Nigeria knows the reality of how oppressive independence can be, and yet in many ways you two are still similar.

[@selwrynn6702]

Frank Herbert's life was WILD. Also I am entirely with that tweet thread for why GRRM cannot finish, because the Song of Ice and Fire is screaming out for a true hero to show up and save the day, but George himself is a spiteful communist who hates the idea of a good person doing good things for the sake of good, because that would prove that he led his life wrong & that's why it's been 3,144 days since A Dance With Dragons was released & why he will never finish the series.

[@nont18411]

3,144 days? I thought it’s already 4,000+ days.

[@smergthedargon8974]

>spiteful communist What?

[@14Misantrop88]

Is he a communist?

[@eldermillennial8330]

16:00 the most ironic thing about Cervantes writing Don Quixote, is when you read about the REAL Battle of LePanto and what Cervantes himself did and sacrificed during that battle. It’s ironic yet, perhaps not surprising. Hardened Veterans are usually the first to scoff at their own legends built around them, some scoff more loudly and persistently than others.

[@KopperNeoman]

One wonders how much of that is humility and how much is cynicism.

[@lightningpenguin8937]

​@@KopperNeoman I think there was probably some sense of concern and worry as well.

[@XanderVJ]

@@lightningpenguin8937 You also have to keep in mind Cervantes was a struggling writer for most of his career. He wanted to be as wealthy and popular as some of his contemporaries, specially play writer Lope de Vega (who would be a more appropriate Spanish counterpart to Shakespeare), who dabbled more in the chivalry tradition (although their most remembered plays aren't from that genre at all). I can imagine that fueled his disdain for the genre even further.

[@panos617]

Heroes are Ideas. And Ideas are Immortals.

[@Christopher-v3n]

I see what you did there. 😊

[@hollundergiersch8691]

V for Vendetta… great, going to watch… in 11 days😊

[@Christopher-v3n]

@@hollundergiersch8691 Facts.

[@Christopher-v3n]

@@hollundergiersch8691 Iconic Book & Movie.

[@Parallax3599]

I can't overstate how much I appreciated this video! Everything from the base claims, to the evidence you supplied, to the way you articulated it was convincing and very high quality in my opinion. I think, with this, you certainly made the internet a slightly better place. Thank you for it.

[@darkroninmarvel]

Rorschach is probably the most hilarious insult backfires in entertainment; Moore wanted to throw shade at Steve Ditko's objectivist views but failed miserably because he accidentally made him appealing to the average reader. And to add more insult to the injury, Watchmen would end up being brought to the big screen by Zack Snyder, a guy fond of objectivism.

[@eldermillennial8330]

28:40 Twain actually got permission from Pope Leo 13 to study the original transcript of Joan’s trial in the Vatican Archives. But what really blows my mind is that at the same time he was writing his Joan book, he was ALSO writing that incredibly creepy “The Mysterious Stranger”, which is not only as different from his usual style as the Joan book is, but is the diametrical OPPOSITE of the Joan book in tone. They read like someone else entirely wrote them! It’s like Christ took his hand while writing about Joan and Satan took it when writing about, well, HIM.

[@thewayfarer8849]

Hated, ignored or no; you cannot ignore the acts of the heroic or its intention

[@Raximus3000]

12:18 No, Hector was not a good guy. He protected his brother who stole the queen who was the blood heir and treasures from Sparta, an act that can only lead to war and tragedy. Not to mention he was overly proud over his action of protecting his country he let this control all his actions and left wisdom to the sun to dry out. The point of most myths is that hubris leads to downfall a lesson that is really vital to more advanced societies and teaches the christian value of humility.

[@marvalice3455]

Found the Greek.

[@Raximus3000]

@@marvalice3455 Guilty and proud of it!

[@crocidile90]

Yup, and it all started because some king wanted to know the future, got scared and half-assed the child ending solution because he bitched out on saving his nation. Some Greek stories had irony as Perseus. He became a hero because his grandpa heard that his grandson would kill him so he locked up his daughter. Some shenanigans insued and Perseus frees his island home of his corrupt adopted uncle and then in the Olympic games, accidentally kills his grandpa by slipping up and hitting him in the face with a discus.

[@Raximus3000]

@@crocidile90 Yep, the inevitable destiny stick, Sisyphus is the poster child of it. Though i think the real events started with the apple of eris and Paris's choice of having the most beautiful woman in the world rather than anything else, because the most beautiful woman would not be married... Plus he was "seeing" a nymph. You could easily make several seasons of it and have a ton of intrigue, action, tragedy and human element surpassing GOT, if it was done correctly.

[@d007ization]

Wellllll, idk if this is true for every translation of the Illiad but the one I picked up has basically every Trojan bemoan the fact that Classical principle/law/virtue/custom prevents them from throwing Paris to the wolves (where they think he belongs). Having said that, that version also draws basically no distinction between any of the warriors, Hector included, Achilles seems more noble thus far, as he's the only who isn't engaged in the patently meaningless and unheroic slaughter at first, even if it is because he lost his s[...] slave/concubine who would proliferate his bloodline.

[@hpsauce1078]

If this is the case then logically we can expect the authors and film makers of the next thousand years to be creating and recreating countless retreads of 'Transported to another world with the worst ability, but I have my smartphone'. - Truly the timeless archetypal narrative of our age

[@islanddenaagikont1642]

Or we do not survive to the degree that we can have these kind of mediums, because of climate change and everything else that is very fastly moving all the Tipping points to fall in to the abyss. Which narratives Will Survive such a brutal world is most likely stories of caution and balance.

[@KopperNeoman]

The isekai itself was invented by A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and popularised by Alice in Wonderland. Nobody remembers the slop.

[@hpsauce1078]

@@KopperNeoman True, nothing new under the sun

[@lightningpenguin8937]

Honestly, I think modern isekais are best defined as the continuation of the power fantasy trope then a true continuation of the isekai trope. The Isekai trope is more about discovering potential about yourself, rising up to the task, and then either returning or staying as a better person. Power fantasies focus on wish fulfillment and living your best life.

[@pisaschitt787]

Isekais aren't even a new concept. It goes way back in Alice in wonderland as far as I'm aware

[@KingEagleInsights]

I have to say this video is like an antidote to the cynicism of our time and also to some videos out there. I'm a big fan of LocalScriptMan, but even he calls out the legitimacy of the hero's journey and Joseph Campell himself. Saying that a lot of his claims about the stories of different cultures are unfounded. I want to make a video on the chivalric romance/Heroes Journey in the future and I'm kinda gathering "ammunition", but I don't thing my work will ever be on your level. This video is brilliant and I love it as much as I love the mystical murder hobo musashi video. Great work.

[@TheLastSterling1304]

Miguel de Cervantes sounds like a real life old Ben Kenobi.

[@GUNDAMURX73]

I find myself impressed with the detail and thought put into this analysis. Not only do I agree with a lot of it, I also learned a lot I did not know like the last story of Cervantes and how that re-contextualizes Don Quixote and what meaning one might take from it. Nicely written and delivered.

[@michaelmccabe3079]

The stories of Oedipus and Icarus are the true opposites to chivalric stories. Icarus is the story of someone who becomes infatuated with his achievements and suffers the consequences of hubris. Unlike chivalric tales which emphasize growth and redemption, hubris is about human short-sightedness and self-destructive consequences. Oedipus' story is also very different, narrative-wise. Like Icarus, it ends in tragedy, but it starts out with the protagonist on a downward slope. His actions only give the illusion of improvement, as they ultimately blow back in his face. Chivalry isn't afraid of suffering and defeat, but emphasizes that inner goodness will be cathartic, if not victorious. Oedipan stories, on the other hand, are all about futility; everything the characters do only makes things worse, before and after they notice.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

Pondering on this idea from time to time on my own, I often think that many a modern writer lacks so much in actual life experience that they try to subvert these ancestral tropes and stories is because they've never really lived an interesting life to notice the parallels between the stories we tell ourselves and how we perceive ourselves. It's how Mr. Martin can write a very long, and never to be finished, story about the byzantine politics of a fictional medieval people is filled with story beats we know....but always subverted in some form or fashion. It's also why I think he'll never finish his books at all, because the ending the show had really WAS his original plan. Seeing it become so universally despised than quickly forgotten, probably gave him good reason to move onto other projects instead. So that's what I think is the issue, people writing stories whose entire life experience is going to school, then to university, then to some low paying job don't exactly have interesting tales to tell as they've never had an interesting tale of their own to live.

[@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286]

If I remember right, the show deviates significantly from the book so the show ending can't be the one Martin planned. But that's just what I heard from show watchers, as I have neither read nor watched the show.

[@reviewspiteras]

My favorite part about this video is the Alan Moore and Mark Twain commentary. Here is my own conclusion about them: Both of them are spoiled cosmopolitans that had too good of a life to be able to affort to be so cinical and subversive. These bad habits are paired with their anti-christian view of things like how Mark Twain was a proto reddit atheist saying quotes that he doesn't fear death because he has been dead for millions of years or how Moore is a pagan that worships snakes or some cringe thing like that.

[@1SpicyMeataball]

Spoiled cosmopolitans? Reddit atheists? Wow. Idk about Moore but... Tell me you didn't research Mark Twain, without telling me you didn't research Mark Twain.

[@bellphorusnknight]

@@1SpicyMeataball american, we all know your authors hate anything in resmblence of the old world. Twain was just honest about it.

[@LucienEN]

@@reviewspiteras it's the typical hipster "I'm too good for X thing that is popular with normal people" attitude.

[@islanddenaagikont1642]

You know you can do it a heroic thing, and actually go and read about them and you can see if your preconception actually aligns with reality. Because people that actually are curious do stand with the truth. And I think it's more about the notion that they actually read history and understanding of these things, the chivalry was mostly in books. If you actually read anthropological books about the Middle Ages that was a harsh brutal time

[@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286]

@@bellphorusnknight You're not better than us because you live in """the Old world."""

[@somerando8615]

0:26 oh no, it's Chris Chan's dimensional merge

[@PerseusJackson-ud3gq]

I had no idea Cervantes fought in the battle of Lepanto. A real hero

[@AuldrinMusic]

Thanks man, as someone struggling with severe personal cynicism lately, I needed this. I had no idea the author of Don Quixote had such an incredible life story. I hope someone makes an epic movie about it if they haven't already.

[@XanderVJ]

That won't happen, at least not made by Spanish culture. Spanish academia is too enamored with Quixote's cynicism for that to happen. And Hollywood sure as hell shouldn't do it either.

[@VengefulnessAi]

I really love how I always learn some weird stuff from your videos. The part where you talk about old chivalry stories and how they relate to the 'weird Asian stuff' that I like to read - I would never have known that! Haha. Keep it up, mate. Greetings from Brazil!

[@AndrwsAnimatics]

14:52 SHOT OUT TO SPAIN and my literature classes from High School, NEVER THOUGHT I'll hear those authors and titles from Spanish medieval period, ITS A BLAST HEARING YOU PROMOTE THE BEST PARTS OF OUR CULTURAL INFLUENCE on the Modern World THANKS pilgrim 16:17 ALSO shot out To my man Miguel de Cervantes, badass author which lost the movement of one of his hands in the battle against Muslims on LEPANTO, thus gaining the moniker of " EL MANCO DE LEPANTO" (one-handed man from LEPANTO)

[@XanderVJ]

No sé yo si la influencia es del todo positiva. Siempre he creído que la admiración excesiva hacia el Quijote y su vena cínica nos ha hecho más mal que bien. El hecho de que no tengamos ni una sola obra épica ampliamente reconocida salvo "El cantar del mío Cid" me parece una de nuestras mayores lacras culturales. Aunque reconozco que eso no fue culpa de Cervantes.

[@Insider887]

I am glad to see that someone is finally calling this out. I never liked the idea of heroes being twisted and deconstructed. Honestly this is why I always disliked Invincible, Watchmen and the Boys, with those pretentious writers trying to seem smart and deep by mocking the concept superheroes.

[@redzeitgeist854]

Invincible isn't a subversion of the Superhero genre, what do you mean?

[@jameswitt108]

​@@redzeitgeist854Come on man it absolutely is a subversion of the superhero genre that doesn't mean it's a bad story per say just that is is a subversion, Mark himself said it verbatim when he took the life of Thragg's son stating that being a superhero is B$.😂

[@Insider887]

An evil Superman killing everyone is literally that. It is what edgelords do to when they want to show how deep and how clever and how creative they think they are. Honest to god when I first caught a glimpse of that character while casually scrolling through my phone one day I first thought that it was like a joke about J J Jameson being Superman.

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

​@@jameswitt108in early parts of the comic, yeah. But later chapters does give off a heroes journey especially in the end where Mark learns of his lineage and actually takes control of the Viltrumite empire and reforms it into the one that his father used to tell him stories about.

[@nont18411]

@@Insider887 + An evil Superwoman also turned out to be a rapist

[@g1novanni]

You and Despot are two of my favorite KZbinrs. I hope to be as influential as both of you someday.

[@duncanharrell5009]

I’m surprised they haven’t done any crossover episodes.

[@nathanielhuffman5908]

Another video so soon? This must be a dream!

[@Eilonwy95]

Thank you for your point about Achilles vs Hector. Hector was always my favorite

[@valmid5069]

"Beauty Will Save the World" ---Fyodor Dostoevsky

[@HangrySaturn]

I wish I could fight or at least identify myself with a good cause. Problem is I can't seem to really find any, either due to it conflicting with my own values or I am in fear of being led astray into ideological tribalism and, thus, uphold evil instead of good. Sometimes, I'm not even sure if my own values are good and I begin to doubt. However, I can still find heroes in various causes that I would disagree with. Though I may be against them, I still can't help but admire them for their efforts.

[@BullMooseFox]

Don't overthink it. Anything can be evil and a lot can be good. I joined my nation's Army to fight for a good cause. Was it perfect? No. Did I help my country? Also no. But I really felt like I was doing something worth doing for a time. Now I'm a veteran and a police officer. It's as close as you can get to actually helping people on a daily basis and sometimes you get to actually truly help people. Again, is it perfect and idyllic? Not even close. But sometimes you have to believe you're fighting the good fight for something that is worth it. And on a base level the Constitution and security of my community members is a good cause. I'm also married with a kid and I need to fight and work hard for the admiration of my wife and son. That one really is worth fighting for. Don't let the marxists demoralize you. They will have you believe nothing is worth doing and fill your head with poison. There is so much life to live and adventure to be had. Every hero that's lived before us is a man just as we are. Caesar himself lamented that he was a failure to a statue of Alexander the great because he hadn't accomplished as much at the same age as Alexander. Don't give up. Find a cause and commit to it. Don't fritter away your brief time on earth.

[@BobBurnham-o6w]

"Tribalism" is not evil. It's "Evil" to the Collectivists who want to oppress all permutations of humanity under the same yoke of fear. Because if "you" would ally with "your own" and use the power of Truth, Beauty, Strength, and Love to humiliate them, their project fails. They want "you" to fight for no one else except everyone else. Do you see? Collectivists want the One to be cheaper than the Many. And that will never be true. Because your Free Will weighs more than the entire universe and everything above and beneath it. They HATE that about humanity. Your gift is their curse. It is their great obstacle. With the full force of all who came before you, what can they do but reap the flames of Outer Darkness?

[@aavila1206]

@@BullMooseFoxThank you. As a man of faith I would also add that Christ, through the grace of his Holy Spirit, can turn every one of our decisions (even the ones we truly believe to be grave mistakes) into a deed for God’s will.

[@BullMooseFox]

@@aavila1206 Faith is important. I truly believe that I did get some guidance from God after asking for it and some comfort in harder times. That being said you still have to make the decision yourself. You have to be the one that takes the first steps into adventure.

[@dominicius77]

You mentioning the UKR war as a positive example for chivalric motivation singlehandedly undid at least 80% of the point you were trying to make in your video and has left me even more cynical of human nature than I've been prior.

[@realah3001]

Yeah it’s clear he dunt know what es talking about there

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

Wtf is wrong with you? I may dislike a lot with how the West and the Ukranian leaders handled the conflict but dont downplay the sacrifices of those who fought for their country and what they believed to be the right thing. All he is saying that Ukranians are inspired by literature like lotr and even star wars to help them cope when it comes to fighting in war.

[@ScotsThinker]

"Rest Assured that our Faith just won't Die" - Might+U

[@eddisonwilde4699]

It’s just proof that human nature does strive for greater good. People may do bad things but they usually think it’s good or will lead to good.

[@GodwynDi]

Almost like it speaks to something real and true in the human character.

[@sindelscat9336]

I don't know why Jon is in the thumbnail, he's not really comparable to the hero archetype outside of a few theories I don't even think he's comparable to any of the other heroes listed, but then again I am going off of the book and not the show

[@maninblak1941]

Two vids in as many weeks? You spoil us Pilgrim

[@kdbublitz88]

Yes, these are all mythos of our culture dating back millenia. Jordan Peterson talked about this a lot, and it is true to the core.

[@jimijenkins2548]

The monomyth. An objective standard of heroism.

[@tastefulmonk6652]

Two videos in 10 days?! This is a good time to be alive.

[@TankHunter678]

As someone who has read the reincarnated as a villainess genre stuff... it is pretty much built around 3 major types of plotlines: 1) Deconstruction of the Maiden (Otome) Game storyline. Instead of the Heroine, who is typically a commoner or a noble in name only, stealing the love interest of the Villainess, which is typically a Prince, the Villainess overcomes adversity and at times supernatural correction forces that try to enforce the original storyline to keep the heart of her finacee. In the end the Villainess is the one who wins, preventing the cheating from occurring and causing the Heroine to either be hoist by her own petard in a reversal of roles or give up. 2) Subversion of the "Happily Ever After" of the Maiden (Otome) Game, this is where the story is built around "zamaa" aka "just deserts" where the Prince is stolen, the engagement is called off, but the Villainess gets to be our perspective character in watching everything fall apart for the unfaithful Foolish Prince. The Heroine gets consumed by decadence and luxury she never got to experience before, she is proven to be useless, and the "true love" relationship rapidly breaks down (especially if the Villainess hooks up with an even better looking guy which causes the Heroine to try to steal that man instead while abandoning Foolish Prince). Commonly in the end the Foolish Prince and the Heroine wind up getting executed or imprisoned for causing tremendous damage to the nation while the Villainess is the one who gets the Happy End, putting her Queen training to use alongside the second Prince or in another country with a major aristocrat. If built off of a reverse harem route this type tends to be very, very, brutal with entire countries collapsing because that is what happens when you start a feud between the royal family and every other big aristocratic family because one Viper of a commoner girl managed to sink her fangs into the next generation Royal Knight Commander, Prime Minister, Royal Purveyor, and Court Mage Commander causing 8 high ranking aristocratic families who are the core of the nation's ability to function to break off their very political and important fiancee arrangements. This one always ends with an execution of idiots. 3) Freedom from an enforced role of misfortune and finding love elsewhere, pretty self explanatory. This one is more of a traditional story of facing adversity after falling to rock bottom, typically this is a situation where the engagement is broken and the Villainess is banished from the country with the Villainess simply not caring about what happens with her lost Prince and the Heroine. Sometimes it is a situation that the Villainess intentionally caused in order to obtain the freedom to pursue their own interests instead of being bound down by the role of having to be a Queen and be with a man she simply does not like. Sometimes this is a reaction to "waking up" too late to have prevented the situation. Regardless the focus is more on exploring the world and finding love on the Villainess' own terms. Sometimes you see moments of the Foolish Prince regretting what he did once he realizes the true personality of his Heroine and trying to get the Villainess back after realizing his mistakes.

[@duncanharrell5009]

I’d love to see you do an examination of successful fictional warrior women vs unsuccessful!

[@enigmaodell6806]

The video is too long to put down all the thoughts I had in response in a comment, so I’ll just say: Solomon Kane is the single most based character to have ever been written.

[@gusty7153]

it's a never ending cycle where attempts at subverting an oversaturated parent trope ends up becoming an oversaturated genre in it's own right that people get tired of so the pendulum swings back and fourth between the public preferring the subversions and public preferring a refresh of the original trope and then a subversion of the refresh and on and on and on. btw i find "anti-hero" to just be straight hero in a shitty society. and the "anti-villain" is just be the final conclusion of making a straight villain too relatable, and also again shitty society. overall i think the best attempts at it are not the ones that subvert the character archetype in themselves but instead subvert a given society.

[@islanddenaagikont1642]

Yeah in four stages come on being standard, burlesque, demonization, and revitalization. These are usually the steps that all genres continue looping through for all time

[@gusty7153]

​@@islanddenaagikont1642 also the cycle goes full circle within a single work when a given work tries to subvert by inverting the roles of hero and villain. best example (that doesn't insult the audience) was Megamind where both are actually reluctant to the roles and their antics become more so theater. metroman was the first to take the initiative to tap out by faking his death, and megamind tries to replace metroman with titan only for titan to turn out to be a villain due to completely lacking any virtue and megamind takes personal responsibility for it and works on defeatng titan as a hero pretending to be a villain

[@deadgunslinger8489]

There are some good anti-heros and anti-villans tho. Dante in dmc3 is an anti-hero (does good for selfish reasons, he does become a hero in the end tho) And talos valcoran from the Night Lords trilogy is an excellent exemple of a good anti-villan.

[@gusty7153]

@@deadgunslinger8489 the point wasn't about whether or not they were good or bad, the point was about whether or not they really "subvert" the given archetypes. as for stories that insult the audiences, i was referring to the recent trend in hollywood where they wanna make all the legacy superheroes into villains to be defeated by villains turned hero.(the concept is actually fine, it's just there's too much political underpinnings involved with the execution) anyways almost all stories i've seen so far don't really subvert the archetypes. they just either subvert the society, or shift the individual characters from one role to another. and the latter isn't really subverting the archetypes, it's just subverting the specific characters. anti-hero is still a hero, anti-villain is still a villain. a villain becoming a hero is just another form of the hero's journey as is the inverse of a hero becoming a villain.

[@tomtom21194]

I learned many things from this video. Including that David Beckham was in a fantasy film

[@syntheticsleep]

Deconstruction is a tool, and it can be useful and even meaningful. Where most of these people fail is that deconstruction or subversion becomes the goal or endpoint, and this will never work. That's why Moore hates his fans. He did write some good stories in spite of himself always being in his own way. It's good to look at things from another perspective and really dig deep into motivations, flaws and mistakes, but it's still just a tool. He wants all the glory to go to the hammer rather than the house it built or all the other tools involved in building it. In fact, he can't even recognize the other tools he used because his focus is so myopic. When people then view his work in a more macroscopic way, he sees them as his real-life opponents even though they love the story that he wrote. He can only see the hammer and he demands that everyone else only see the hammer. That's not how it works, bud. We can see that in modern stories where you cannot look away from the hammer for any reason, it IS the reason. No one likes it, no one wants it, no one is inspired by it. It will not persist through time, it will not be reiterated, it will not ever be regarded as a literary monument of civilization, but rather it will turn to dust and be lost to time like every other hammer that's ever existed and there will be no lasting value, beauty or truth that it left behind for future generations.

[@dpolaristar4634]

But I also like lots of Slice of Life stuff with no supernatural elements and relatively low stakes (As in a personal goal might be be reached but like no one is going to die bro.)

[@MarcusNcc17]

Chivalric literature in a nutshell, Simp struggles to sigma his way out of simping. In all seriousness I think my favorite part of this KZbin channel is all the literature I’m introduced too. It reminds me that there is more to read than jstor essays and wiki pages

[@trevynlane8094]

Dr. Manhattan is NOT a Superman analog. There is no Superman in Watchmen. That is the point of Watchmen. Dr. Manhattan is an analog of Captain Atom.

[@AllanTidgwell]

It's as bad as claiming Rorschach or Niteowl is a Batman analog. They're literally Blue Beetle and The Question

[@trevynlane8094]

@@AllanTidgwell indeed. They are all DC analogs, but there are none of the A-list heroes in this roster and that was deliberate. The A-list heroes were the inspiration and humanizing influence of the Justice League, especially Superman who is the most human member of the League (according to Batman)

[@1001johny]

​@@trevynlane8094(Charlton analogs) Specifically Ditko-Charlton analogs.

[@SirThinkALot42]

The funny thing about the high fantasy genre is that while Tolkien is indeed massively influential to the genre, one of the most recognizable and significant fantasy platforms, Dungeons and Dragons actually takes a lot more inspiration from the pulp 'sword and sorcery' stories. The only thing DnD took from Tolkien was some of the races. But the classes, the way the magic system works, the nature of the divine are all much closer to Conan than middle earth. You see this especially in R. A. Salvatores Drizzt books, which basically are just Sword and Sorcery books set in the Forgotten Realms.

[@jonashartman3059]

Thank you so much for the great vide, sir! I just recently got to watch the King Arthur film that you were using for B-footage, and it was a surprisingly solid hero's journey tale, I must say, if a bit grey at times. But I tend to enjoy more color. XD

[@robinfox4440]

The only reason Eowyn is proto-woke modern nonsense is the whole "I am no man" line, which undermined what happened in the book and the importance of Merry's Barrow-blade in breaking the Witch King's magic.

[@Nehfarius]

In fairness, when your opponent is stated to be immune to all damage dealt by men, it makes sense to send a capable woman to kill him. The Witch-King was killed because he worded his dark blessing poorly and left a loophole Eowyn could exploit, thus putting him out of Middle-Earth's misery. :p

[@narcispana9361]

Great essay! Love it and will try the your Fables! Cheers!

[@Rensune]

It's no longer about trying to be original. They deliberately want to ruin all your hopes and dreams.

[@bewarethegreyghost]

Hot Take: Lovecraftian horror is the perspective of an atheist living in the medieval Catholic worldview. They have no frame of reference for malevolent extradimensional beings that can only be warded off by certain symbols or rituals.

[@SourRobo8364]

That's why Transformers One is my favorite movie of the year. Optimus feels like Optimus. That speech he gives to the miners is one of my favorite moments.

[@Squirrelforgood]

Hero stories may be overdone but never fails to stay fascinating

[@RitsuCurisu]

Heroism is timeless. Every human race and culture I can think of has a mythological hero showing fathomless courage and/or sacrifice. All of this thinly veiled bitterness and envy are traits of only the lowest of villains. We can see it for what it is because actual heroism resonates with us. We don't have to be told by our "betters" why it is socially poignant in order for us to like it.

[@ScotsThinker]

Timeless Virtue is inevitable.

[@GarrethandPipa]

I often say when the only difference between hero and villain is whom the police arrest then there are no heroes and falls to moral relativism and a authors own bias.

[@hariman7727]

I will argue that the left side of the political aisle (tyranny and authoritarianism) actually ISN'T Chivalric, and it's the right win freedom based liberty that's the true Chivalry, but that brings up the issue of the Left claiming virtues it doesn't have and the actions of the DNC being in conflict with their marketing. EDIT: Rorchach is the only one who sticks with his morality. The Owl was the best of them, who was actually THE hero of the era... and he quit. EDIT: George Martin's mistake is that he tried to subvert Epic Fantasy and ended up writing an epic fantasy tale. Jon Snow MUST win and save everyone, or the story's promises are unfulfilled.

[@KopperNeoman]

As another commenter quoted C.S. Lewis in pointing out, chivalry is designed to encourage meekness. Chivalry encourages mighty warriors to be humble and self-reflect rather than throwing their weight around, and also encourages peasantry and city folk to take a stand when necessary even if they don't think they can pull it off. In other words, to be meek.

[@AllanTidgwell]

The Monomyth refers to the collected "Seven Basic Story Plots" The Hero's Journey is the template for one of these plots. The two concepts are linked but not synonymous. Heck, the Villain's Journey is just a variation on the Hero's Journey where the "hero" chooses vice instead of virtue. The term isn't literally about a "hero". The term is an aphorism

[@rcblazer]

"An abandoned war veteran left to rot by the civilization he risked everything to defend." Miguel de Cervantes was the John Rambo of his time.

[@Retetop]

"Might makes right" is not pagan, "Right makes might" is.

[@romaldomadrid3819]

I heard the radio show of "the Shadow", I listened to it. It was entertaining at the time

[@TheEmperorsChampion964]

Heroes resonate with us, why else do you think a lot of men's fantasies involve a heroic last stand?

[@AllanTidgwell]

The character who is supposed to represent Alan Moore in Watchman is Ozymandias Moore doesn't understand that heroism isn't having a cause worth killing for, but having a cause worth dying for. This is why most sane individuals think Rorschach is the real hero even if he's doing horrible things. "Needs must as the devil drives" as it were

[@mountainmanmike1014]

the save the Princess story was originally a save the Cow (rain storms) from a serpent monster (drought)

[@SzymonCelticSlav]

Heroism in fantasy isnt solely Christian, for one the tropes of the illiad of honour, strength and virtue and falabile human nature are deeply rooted in the Pagan characters like Hector, Aeneas, king Priam, Herakles in the Slavic world the Boyaters and monster slayers in the Celtic Cú Chulainn or the Gods like Lugh who slayed evil demons. Overall these characters embodief virtue and strove against challenges.

[@KopperNeoman]

Christian myth is the ultimate apotheosis of the hero archetype however - those other religions were Man's flawed attempts at connecting with God; Christ was not that.

[@jaieregilmore971]

Chivalry and Heroics values will never die ultimately those stories inspire hope for those to be the best version of themselves yes it can give some people the wrong ideas but the themes and lessons shouldn’t be cast out to the way side. However nowadays Hollywood focus on deconstruction and subversions certain genres and characters they lost true meaning on why they are special in first place it is reason why I can never accept movies like The Last Jedi because it ultimately lied to itself and the directors don’t the characters at all.

[@realah3001]

Bro created re:creators and he thought we wouldn’t notice XP

[@ashedavaer]

I don't know where he read it but a friend of mine once said "Demons from hell rises to claim heaven, And Angels fall to flee. But only for Heaven to become Hell and Hell turn to Heaven." Kinda exemplifies this

[@1SpicyMeataball]

What I'm finding weird is how Man of La Mancha not only subverts the deconstruction of Don Quixote, but also reflects Cervantes changing attitude towards chivalry. That doing good and being just, isn't a meaningless conquest. Even in a world where people scoff and mock you for it. Weird how that turned out.

[@XanderVJ]

The fact that came from an American piece of work, instead of a Spanish one is VERY telling, trust me.

[@tuckermorin507]

One of the best videos you have ever made. I loved it. Thank you!

[@adamantiiispencespence4012]

I don't think Martin is trying to subvert anything. He plays too many tropes straight for that to be his aim. I think he wanted to create a more grounded and realistic fantasy so he could drag these tropes through mud (as David Lightbringer put it)and have a less glamourous more life like or historical fantasy. He even cites a historical fiction book as being the main inspiration for ASOIAF. I think the real problem for George is he's created a many headed hydra of a story where anyone of the POVs could make a full series on their own and now he has to find a way to thread the needle and get all the characters he's scattered to the winds back to center stage without it feeling contrived.

[@john80944]

This is very interesting indeed. YT recommended a video about chivalry is dead, which is made by a history-based DND channel, then it also recommended this video to me. Both channels talk 'bout storytelling. But I already know what you want to say, it's not really that hard to guess tbh, while I think learning about actual chivalry might help people construct a knighty character more than your usual discourse.

[@thehussarsjacobitess85]

I am more convinced Cervantes was lampooning the excesses of the chivalric ideal than debunking it. The first (and far more enjoyable) half of the novel actually justifies the existence of a chivalric order as Quixote is in fact surrounded by his adventurous ideals, many of whom seek to check the hero's excesses, especially through the very likeable priests and canons trying to reason with him (those characters are always misrepresented in the films). The second half of Quixote does indeed thoroughly seek to subvert those ideals, but that half is ostensibly written by a Turk who wants Catholics to give up all notions of martial ideals so they can be more easily conquered. The novel is coloured by a tortured, conflicted man, but one who clearly understands the need his world had for his personal sacrifice.

[@orrorsaness5942]

Yey