Why TMNT (2012) Fails at Romance

[@rabnerd28]

For some reason people are under the assumption that Mona is an adult in this series and I have no idea where y'all are getting that from. No one has ever said that she's an adult and nothing in the series indicates this, especially given that she acts like a teenager. You guys don't need to like the two of them, but do not make up something just to justify not liking it.

[@AdaHazard]

NGL I've been seeing like, one specific person go around on every single piece of fan-work that even mentions 12 Raph and Mona to try and convince everyone of her headcanon that Mona is an adult and therefore we should all hate the ship so it MIGHT just be her seeming like a lot of people because leaves tons of comments in the same threads...

[@aff77141]

But what do you mean, that takes all the fun out of being unreasonably angry about a fictional relationship!

[@aff77141]

@@AdaHazard Wouldnn't surprise me, but neither would the idea of an unfortunate amount of people just perpetuating something to ruin a ship just because they feel like it that day

[@TmntRants]

​@@aff77141exactly, just look at leorai

[@missing_name]

I’ve heard that it might be influenced by the older version of Raph and Mona from 1987. Apparently Raph was 15 while Mona was a college student, which would make her at least 18.

[@SquidwardSmellsGOOD734]

I do agree with Raph x Mona being the best couple in the entire series. It wasn’t forced, awkward, or played for laughs, it felt natural, healthy, both characters bounce off each other really well, and, unlike his brothers, Raph actually wins the girl’s heart and earns it at the end.

[@shyla9062]

The thing is it really was forced. Love at first sight just feels lazy. They had no history, just decided to get together after meeting once 😭

[@shyla9062]

@@immortalbeast yeah I agree! I think it’s ok to disagree but I think people should admit it’s a little forced… and Mona not having a confirmed age is odd.

[@t-b073]

I like them X3 I just wish there was more time into growing into each other. Cause it felt rushed at the end of the episode where they first met

[@khaliyahjefferson832]

Tbh it was forced they met in the span of 2 minutes 8 its been so long

[@zjmstrash7181]

​@immortalbeast I agree with it bring forced but I do feel like it's a little odd to be trying to reach and assume they put raph in a pedophilic relationship. I mean it could be possible but I personally think she was a better fighter just so raph could have a contrived reason to like her lol.

[@criptastical]

Okay but the phrase "they turned Leo into a full fruit ninja" is the best thing I've heard in ages

[@Vivigreeny25]

As opposed to usual the 1/2 fruit ninja

[@being10158]

⁠@@Vivigreeny25what happened to the 1/4 fruit ninja?

[@ScribbleEnigma47]

@@being101581/8th fruit ninja?

[@kaseybrown23]

why did Nickelodeon let a grown-ass man hit on a teenager though

[@ScribbleEnigma47]

@@kaseybrown23 It was 2012, I have nothing else to say against or with anything

[@GreayWorks]

I don't think it helps that Shredder's origin in this version was that he was a petty possessive man who couldn't handle romantic rejection and became obsessed with Tang Shen and would horde pictures of her in a very scary manner, and then you have Donnie just flat out stalk and take pictures of April.

[@anikxa6401]

also Yoshi and Saki fought over Tang as if she was some possesion not understanding that she actually has feelings - the same thing happened with Donnie and Casey fighting over April

[@thebombsquadtv6151]

Yeah. Honestly it would be better if it was like the IDW comics or most of the other versions where he saw him having Shen and Miwa and leaving the clan entirely as a betrayal to the clan, and THEN kills Shen. Yeah it’s still sick and evil but not that painful to watch like it is in 2012.

[@tatsuostatic8567]

He let his rivalry get in the way and when him and Splinter met Tang, that rivalry turned into hatred. Plus, Saki learned of his true heritage and rebuilt the Foot Clan

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

Man, this show could've actually done something with this parallel and have Donnie learn a lesson from it instead of whatever the bigfoot episode was.

[@GacMan47]

I mean, sounds like a basic villain.

[@khulanzuch5502]

Surprisingly, The turtle with the most rage issues has the most game in romance.

[@discmanthecdlord]

Raphael? More like Rizzhael

[@smcphee8499]

People love tough characters with soft sides. So that’s why.

[@geministrial950]

Not surprising at all tbh

[@SoulSlugArts]

He's big and secretly soft That's the good shit

[@isaiahedmonson5832]

Raphael the man 😎🐢

[@Wandermidget]

Gosh, Donnie and April's "romance" was the worst. Not only did it sabotage Donnie's character, but he became such an insufferable jackass everytime he wanted to get in her pants (which was over 90% of the time they interacted). He my favorite turtle as well so it hurt even more witnessing it as the show aired over its five years. The whole show was telling him "yo, it's not going to work out. She's not interested." Even Splinter was getting annoyed by it and that rat has the utmost patience for his sons. And then April near the end basically gets gaslit into the relationship and the show pretends that Donnie did a good thing by persevering. Come on, man!

[@potato_7427]

Yeah I agree. Donnie is a good character outside of all the romance but April just isn’t a good character imo. I understand she’s a teenager but she’s just insufferable at times

[@Coolclubonline]

Yeah it was cringe. Its just as bad as Leo and April in the new film

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

What I find worse, is this is also the first time Donnie's more hot tempered, rather than levelheaded, it's overshadowed by this crush. This is the first time, in a long time, he's going in a new direction, and he can't even go that far.v

[@ShinyShilla]

I think the Donnie April dynamic on 2012 TMNT is why I can't like the serie as much as everyone does. I much prefer Rise

[@smcphee8499]

Basically made Donnie a ‘nice guy’

[@Azulzinhokkk]

I personally like April more as an adult, and working like an older sister to the younger Turtles. I hope we eventually get a dynamic like this again in the future. Ever since April got turned into a teen in 2012, we've had few adult Aprils since.

[@rabnerd28]

God, I miss adult April! Teenage April rarely feels justified and only Rise has had strong characterization for her besides teenage girl.

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

Besides Donnie's awkward crush, April in season 1 feels like a different person. Her motivations made sense, the ditching in season 2 hadn't happened yet, she was kind, and it seemed obvious she was ignoring Donnie's crush as to not hurt his feelings ("You do know that thing's not muted, right?" And, "Let's just agree that you did." Moments she said those). THEN the rest of the series happens. They could of written Donnie to get over her so much better, rather than dragging it out. In fact, she should of not chosen Casey or Donnie, then they become such good friends, it competes with Raph's friendship with Casey.

[@kbraven7007]

I actually prefer teen April actually

[@palemeadows]

@@rabnerd28I really like 2012 April so I’m bias, while adult April is AMAZING! I think I prefer her being around the turtle’s ages, as they need more teen friends!

[@THATRANDOMDUDE99999]

My thoughts exactly! 1990 April and 2003 April especially, they were great to the turtles

[@remyhale6528]

I am filled with so much rage by all the TMNT 2012 "romances" (except for Raph and Mona which as you said does come with its own issues but hey, Raph doesn't stalk her, respects her, and is not related to her so it's infinitely better than whatever any of the other turtles have going on) i really appreciate this video for talking about it

[@fictionalcharactermov7471]

I disagree karai and leo is fine same with mikey and rennet

[@criptastical]

@@fictionalcharactermov7471 I mean the fact that Karai and Leo ended up literally being siblings was really weird to look back on, gives major Luke and Leia vibes

[@remyhale6528]

​ @fictionalcharactermov7471 I'm not making this comment to be rude I just wanted to give an explanation as to why I said what did in my previous comment Leo and Karai are essentially siblings, while they are technically not related it's still in a weird gray area. like what was said in the video I think they could've had a really interesting dynamic but it's the fact that they are in the sibling gray area that I don't like them. for Mikey and Rennet it's more of a personal problem with how much he is infantilized in the show (there's literally an episode where the other turtles enter his mind to find the inner Mikey who is like a 6 y/o) and for me putting a character who is infantilized into a relationship is weird, and as said in the video they are just boring. If Mikey wasn't super infantilized they would be fine but I wouldn't be invested because I find their dynamic very bland again I don't mean to be rude, just to explain what I said

[@catapultato1733]

​@@criptasticaleh, i'm not bothered by that because they were neither raised together nor genetically related

[@mundoatena1674]

​@@catapultato1733they are genetically related because of how Mutagen works in the 2012. When Mutagen gets in you, you're mutated with the DNA of the last thing you touched. Which means that the turtles have Splinter's DNA and are half brothers of Karai

[@gregtheradical]

Donnie’s romance:the most annoying Leo’s romance:the most controversial Mikey’s romance:the most boring Raph’s romance:the best

[@jarredbillings2332]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@BBfan06]

LOL

[@T_E_G]

NO WAIT THIS IS ACTUALLY TRUE 😭

[@Shadozer5555]

Preach 🗣️

[@mikemorro140]

this also defines how people see the turtles in general if you swap Mikey and Donnie

[@MorganWenninger]

Can someone do an analysis about the friendship with Mikey and Leatherhead because I love that friendship

[@comicbookking3446]

What did you think of Donatello and Leatherhead’s friendship in the 2003 series ?

[@MorganWenninger]

@@comicbookking3446 it was fine but I didn't really watch it I have no nostalgia for that show

[@williamkerfoot8039]

​@@comicbookking3446What friendship?

[@comicbookking3446]

@@williamkerfoot8039 what do you mean ? I’m talking about Donatello’s dynamic/interactions with Leatherhead in the 2003 series.

[@williamkerfoot8039]

@comicbookking3446 It was nothing special at all! Mikey had way more of a relationship with LH in the 2003 series just like in 2012!

[@stardust948.]

I think a way to fix the whole Ralph giving Mona Lisa an Earth name is for her to give Ralph a Salamandrian name as well and make it more of a sharing culture thing. And throughout the show we have have Ralph learn more Salamandrian while Mona learns more about Earth

[@bluehunter4471]

Nice comment and i stealing that idea for a story i made that I’m rewriting also they are the only relationship that makes sense i mean have you seen the shit floating around the internet with many people wanting aliens rather than humans the fact that they had access to the internet didn’t help either also the turtles canonically caused an extinction event i dont know how many caught onto that

[@Gen_-6012]

Yeah,like I just don’t rly like that he gives her a nickname because he doesn’t wanna pronounce her name. So I think both of them getting nicknames is such a cute idea. It feels more fair.

[@hotpotato5587]

I haven’t seen the show, what’s so bad about the nickname? It was kind of brushed over in the video

[@babycakelings]

@@hotpotato5587 It was given as like she told him her name, then he can't pronounce it so he goes "I'm gonna call you Mona Lisa instead." Imagine meeting someone named like Hoyul and going 'I'm gonna call you Hannah instead", it's mega weird.

[@langdonledwig3734]

@@babycakelingsto be fair he asked her for permission instead of just assuming it is cool with her

[@twindrill2852]

I grew up with the 2012 show, but looking back romance was definitely not one of its strong suits. I found the Donnie-April-Casey Jones love triangle to be pretty annoying, and Leo x Karai was just... _why._

[@twindrill2852]

@@immortalbeast How are Leo and the other turtles pets?? Yes, they're animals, but they're also humanoid, and Splinter clearly treated them like his own sons.

[@twindrill2852]

That's absolutely shit reasoning. He can't realistically do that because, well, he's a mutant. And before the turtles became heroes those types of mutants are probably seen as nothing more than animals.@@immortalbeast

[@DaHedgeMoon]

⁠@@immortalbeastI’m gonna have to respectfully disagree on that part. I mean yeah the turtles started out as pets, but they’re Splinter’s sons. I’m pretty sure most of them called Splinter dad at least once in the series.

[@bobtheball5384]

​@@immortalbeastSo by your logic if the turtles are just pets- it would be beastality for any of the human characters to have romantic interest in them?

[@DaHedgeMoon]

@@immortalbeast I think the problem is because both Leo and Karai view Splinter as their father. Even if they aren’t related, Splinter still raised the turtles for years, allow them to call him their father. And the turtles viewing splinter as a dad isn’t one sided. He sees them as his sons. I doubt he’d be fine if one of his sons had a crush on his daughter. They don’t need to be blood relatives for it to be weird. Imagine going to a wedding and the bride and groom have the same dad? One adopted and one the dad had biologically. It’s pretty much like that.

[@mundoatena1674]

I think the reason so many people seem to think April is manipulative is because of two things: How quickly she is able to just throw away her friendship with the turtles (mostly cause the writers don't really know how to cause conflict between allies very well), which implies that she's only there because of wanting something, and because when presented with the opportunity to turn Donnie down, in A Foot Too Big, she kisses him and excuses his behavior, making him go back to the romantic circle, only to completely ignore his advances the next episode, which gives it an underlining tone of her not wanting him, but wanting him to want her. I don't really agree with either of this points because in both April is usually acting very out of character and it's obvious the writers just didn't know what to do with her. Leo and Karai are... they are trully SOMETHING. Someone please tell me why the writers decided to keep making them flirt even AFTER they found out they were half siblings????? (Blood related half sibling, to make it worse) WHAT HAPPENED IN THE WRITING ROOM???? Mikey's and Raph's relationships have similar problems to me, but in different degrees. Both feel like a relationship thought last minute so that none of the turtles would end up not having a love interest, but their degree of success varies. Mikey and Rennet doesn’t have anythinb inherently wrong with it, but it still doesn't work, Mikey tends to act a bit out of character because of the relationship and they just don't seem to have any chemestry at all. It's just... awkward. Raph and Mona, however, have the problem of the rushed start. They fall in love and get in a relationship so quickly that it's a bit hard to take seriously as a romantic rather than just a one of crush, even tho they work very well together and it works to show Raph's soft side better (The writers do, however, manage to develop them romantically extremely well). Probably in a better written show, their relationship would have been considered a little bit weak because of the start, but here, just the fact that they're cute together manages to win a hundred points from the start because FUCKING FINALLY

[@memeview2566]

For the first thing you brought up, she’s a teenager, and her dad (that she just got back) was turned into a bat creature, and then she found out it was the turtles fault (thanks Mikey) so I would say her response was pretty on point.

[@mundoatena1674]

@@memeview2566 it's less about her response and about how the writers don't seem to know how to write her, which ends up with her feeling pretty out of character. The April we see in most episodes wouldn't act like she did. The reaction she had seems to match Casey's character a lot more than hers. But again, she barely has a fully developed personality, so I guess there aren't many in character reactions for her to have

[@memeview2566]

@@mundoatena1674 bruh what, the response is what the writers wrote 💀, now your just filling in buzz words

[@mundoatena1674]

@@memeview2566 just because the writers wrote it, it doesn't mean it's not out of character? The writers gave her a personality (as underdeveloped as it is), but they often contradict it whenever they want something to happen, regardless of the fact it doesn't make sense for her to do it

[@WisdomUngulates]

There’s another reason Mikey and Rennet is just bad because erm- time shit like she says that he’ll see her in the furture and he’s waayyyyy older than him idk rubs me the wrong way

[@RaneRaiful]

“It isn’t tmnt if Leonardo doesn’t get physically, metaphorically, or emotionally thrown through a window” Had Me HOWLING.

[@bufsi6144]

LMAO FR

[@AAuthenticity9880]

BAHHAAHAHAHAHAH FRE

[@otterzrkuhl]

So I love the 2012 tmnt. It's the first tmnt show I ever saw and I grew up with it. I cant express how much I love it and how much it hurts to hear it criticized. That being said......the romances are the worst part. Except for Raph and Mona they really had no idea what they were doing.

[@otterzrkuhl]

@@immortalbeast I don't remember them ever saying her age

[@otterzrkuhl]

@immortalbeast umm no.....like I said I don't remember.

[@otterzrkuhl]

@immortalbeast well they're all voiced by adults and a woman being taller and better at something doesn't make her older but I also don't really care

[@williamkerfoot8039]

​@@immortalbeastNo it just sucked!

[@robotslayerhimself]

​@@immortalbeast Not to burst your bubble but tall girls exist. Just because someone is tall, doesn't mean they're adults. (Don't quote me on this since I've only seen scraps of the shows through clips) but I think the reason she talks so military is because she is? I think?? From what I got through the video, it seems like Mona grew up in an environment where she has to fight for her people to survive. If you compare how her and. Raph grew up, it would make sense why she acts like an adult. Again, I haven't watched the entire show yet so my argument could be flawed.

[@MarcMagma]

I can't believe people actually think of April as "emotionally manipulative". This is the first time I've heard of this. The thought never even entered my brain 'cause it's so absured.

[@damiondunn4663]

Maybe a little

[@melissa6912]

That's not how I interpreted it when I first watched the show, but I see why they would think that. Most of the time, April acts disinterested or oblivious to Donnie's flirting attempts, but the moment he seems ready to move on, that's when she kisses him, but afterwards, they're still not a couple !

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

I used to ship apritello, got impatient several times it didn't progress, and even I didn't think that.

[@smcphee8499]

There are a lot 12!April haters. I’ve seen them. I don’t like April that much either but I never saw emotional manipulation.

[@victor2641]

Agree

[@missing_name]

I figured that the disapproval to shipping Rise! April and Donnie was because the writers apparently confirmed that their relationship was strictly platonic, plus she becomes integrated to the family. Personally I did find *some* annoyance when familial connections were ignored in favor of romantic ones. (ie. two characters were confirmed to have a platonic relationship, but were still romantically paired.) It always made it feel like romantic relationships were more important than platonic ones. Of course, this *never* justifies attacking *anyone* for their pairings (even if it’s problematic). But in a world where romantic is peddled as the *most* important thing, I hold fast to familial ties

[@ohohoho249]

Yep! The writer confirmed a while ago during a QnA on Twitter that 1. April is a big sister figure to the turtles 2. The show leans strictly towards plantonic (and because of that they're not sure if April and Cassandra will end up together or not in the perhaps possible season 3/future, one can hope tho, we love badass lesbians) and 3. IF there's going to be any romance for the turtles it's not going to be with a human. So yea! Wholesome family + domestic feels mostly :DD (Wholeheartedly agree on what op says, familia relationship between different genders are a lot less common than romantic ones, so if you see the opportunity of a plantonic sibling dynamic you GRAB IT FROM THE NECK AND NEVER LET GO) (the whole thing about TMNT as a franchise is it's family relationship as well, which amplify the significance of a character if they're deemed more as a possible family member than a potential love interest in my opinion)

[@geministrial950]

So attacking people over fictional pairins is justified if the ship *is* problematic?

[@missing_name]

@@geministrial950 hm, maybe I could’ve worded it differently. Not attack, but I guess you could voice criticisms again problematic/pro ships 🤔

[@KeitieKalopsia]

Shipping is one of my favorite parts of fandoms and probably what I engage most in, but Donnie and April in Rise had such sibling energy it just didn't make sense to ship them. It's kind of the same as how it doesn't strike me to ship April with Sunita because they have such platonic energy. If I were to pair April with someone, it would be Casey (Sr.), but considering they share like two minutes of screen time, that might just be the delulu kicking in.

[@T.JacobMain]

@@KeitieKalopsia LITERALLY!!! They do the whole platonic thing so well!! It heals my aroace soul. Also, you hit the nail on with April and Sunita pairing, as much as i love my wlw ships, they did not strike me as the type to be dating. They're already extremely adorable as they are as besties

[@princessarnasan3725]

I think 2012 Donnie and April having a "sibling type" relationship is much better than being stuck in a "will they, won't they" trope until we're tired of it 😩. With Donnie moving on to April but she's still important to him. Also, you have a great analysis to this ship along with Sarcastic Chorus (he has his own analysis & review channel by the way)

[@rabnerd28]

I saw his video and my first thought while watching it was "This dude clearly stole my notes" lol

[@princessarnasan3725]

@@rabnerd28 🤣

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

@@rabnerd28xD

[@SarcasticChorus]

@@rabnerd28 Insert meme of the two people driving by each other but its us roasting donnie.

[@rabnerd28]

@@SarcasticChorus Excuse me for one second *leaves* *screams*

[@TheCommenterDragon]

In all honesty, I'm glad that I'm not the only one who likes the canon romance between Raph and Y'Gythgba/Mona Lisa. It's true the moments between those two are both badass and adorable!!!

[@ImTitan16]

The thing i like about that ship is that neither are humans so it doesnt come off ad werid. Donnie x april and leo x kurei always felt werid since donnie is a tutrle.

[@KeitieKalopsia]

You're definitely not the only one. I'm pretty sure they're universally loved except for that odd group of haters.

[@MoonspiritX]

"Don't fight it, you'll thank me later." "I'm thanking you NOW." 😂

[@Logan-zl7xi]

Mikey's romance: Kinda cute Raph's romance: The best but still weird. Donnie's romance: It's just painfully hopeless. Leo's romance: ....... THAT'S YOUR SISTER LEO!! 💀

[@JuniorKen-i3s]

Uhhh....stepsiblings actually 😐🖕

[@miachanuwu9294]

Mikey romance tho Renet saying in one episode that in her year she isn't even born and she's from the future 💀 (weird for me) Shinigami - i don't think she really likes him like romanticaly

[@mythic-m7p]

@@JuniorKen-i3s They're literally blood related.

[@Zirconia9825]

​@@JuniorKen-i3s...the writers didn't having some better ideas for a nice and better relationships with these TMNT 2012 version of the turtles.

[@DisabledKitkat6068]

​@JuniorKen-i3s they are step siblings so? THEY ARE STILL PART OF THE FAMILY

[@vallianlime8980]

I like how Raphael ASKED if he could use a nickname instead of just giving her one when it got too hard

[@IndigoMagic]

as someone who has never watched tmnt 2012 (grew up with and love 2003) the fact that they paired up Mikey and Renet is the most random thing. I actually went and rewatched the 2003 episode just to check if they had some sort of interaction and Mikey was literally the most done with her out of all of them. I just think it's funny

[@ForrestFox626]

I think 2012 did that couple because their voice actors (Greg Cipes and Ashley Johnson) have voice characters that were romantic items. Ben 10 Alien Force, Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go!, Teen Titans

[@T_E_G]

​@@ForrestFox626 they should honestly break that chain, you're just hearing the same couple but in different shows 💀

[@richardperaza5083]

@@ForrestFox626honestly I was going to say the same exact thing bc like Rennet and Mikey weren’t garbage but I knew the only reason why they were “love interest” was bc of the meta humor of them being those voice actors

[@katiec2758]

Oh my gosh!! Yes! I've been in 2012 April's situation before. And it's so hard and when that type of relationship is in a show it is so awkward. April constantly deserves better

[@fictionalcharactermov7471]

how?

[@artemisaix]

Donnie deserves better. He was ready to let her go but she didn't like that so she keep him giving him fake hopes

[@Menace_1129]

Why did she kiss him on the lips tho when he tried to tell her he'd stop pursuing her

[@rabnerd28]

@@Menace_1129 Because bad writing

[@racheljackson4428]

i don't think 2012's April o neill should be a love interest. it's like the writers have run out of ideas on what to do with April.

[@LeafyGreens726]

I legitimately loved karai and leos romance when I first saw it. They had so much chemistry and I love hero/villan romance. But then I found out they are related.... :| why did they have to ruin a romance with such good potential????

[@shanecorcoran2542]

my biggest issue isnt even the "incest" claims because i never had much care for those, it's the fact that the two should have kept the more serious dynamic in the middle of Season 4. I know it's a kids show but they really could have had Leo bring Karai out of the "going after Shredder alone" plan that Karai was bent on. It really could have enforced them caring for each other on a family level, and while I do think Karai's arc is done very well in this show, this was the one part that was missing to make it perfect imo

[@victor2641]

They aren't related

[@SyerasSanctum]

​@@victor2641they are all Splinter's children.

[@victor2641]

@@SyerasSanctum adopted turtle children and blood related daughter.

[@geministrial950]

​@@SyerasSanctumThey didnt grow up together though, besides its not like they can reproduce

[@Seagull-whisperer]

Rise April isn’t a reporter. She couldn’t hold a job if she tried 😭 I think she just goes undercover as a reporter in one episode. Probably as a reference to past Aprils.

[@JdRDMS]

In the movie, she's studying journalism in college, and she does indeed go undercover at her school.

[@justaguy2182]

My biggest issue with romance in kids media is that it’s usually not portrayed the best. Love is a complicated thing, and lust and love are two very different things. Very rarely does kids media go into the nuances of relationships, because most writers going into it think they have to appeal to whatever basic notions kids have of love. 2012’s ships all have problems. Apriltello most of all, yes, but that doesn’t discount the other ships. I think a kids series should delve into how rocky relationships can be sometimes, because kids understand more than we think, or at the very least they can absorb more than we think. We should be honest with kids about love, and how it doesn’t always work out, and how you just have to be ok with it sometimes. Nobody is entitled to anyone’s affections, that’s just how life is.

[@fersanchez2066]

I couldn't agree more with all you said in the video. 2012 had a big problem with writing romance and female characters (also the amount of time they used April, a teenager, for fanservice shots it's... uncomfortable) Mona and Raph are definitely the best one but when I heard people talk about them I was picturing a relationship that spanned the whole space arc with multiple encounters but everything happens so fast, its still cute and def miles better than the others. The way 2012 treats female characters could be their own video and actually I would really be happy if you decided to make a more extended video of your grivances with 12 because i feel we share a lot of opinions. Thanks for the video!

[@rabnerd28]

I have palns for more 2012 and other TMNT videos. I've just got to actually find time to make them.

[@gachagav_gc]

I remember they gave Karai an ass shot while talking to her Foot soldiers, as a kid I didn't think much of it, especially since the Incredibles 2 had their own with Elastagirl and anime has way more ecchi scenes, but for a kid's cartoon it's out of place

[@thegamebusters5413]

Wait April's friend was a reference to the 87 series and so was Mona?! I never fucking knew this! Damn there is so much missed potential with her friend like why did they have to make her a robot! She could have been so cool :'(

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Probably because they knew people would really be taken aback by this change.

[@rolanslide8509]

One of the things I enjoyed about Mutant Mayhem is that the "Leo having a crush on April" subplot immediately blew the "Donnie having a crush on April" plot in 2012 out of the water

[@christiangoodin347]

I'm not gonna lie, I think they should have done that in the 2012 tmnt series. I think Leo and April look really good together as a romance. I don't know what it is that I like about it, but the idea of Leo falling in love with April could have been better.

[@ShakaHapa]

@@christiangoodin347nah fam

[@richardperaza5083]

I’ll say this I think the Leo x April thing is better than the Donnie x April thing but like man I wish they didn’t do that it just felt weird it was even worse that Splinter had a girlfriend as well

[@alexjewett7455]

At least in mutant mayhem, it's not a major thing, and doesn't get in the way of the actual story.

[@sunnydays7678]

My biggest problem with the April x Donnie romance is when she kissed him on the lips!! I can understand cheek kisses and hugs for friends, it doesn’t necessarily have a romantic undertone. But when Donnie was explicitly telling her “I understand you don’t feel the same way, I’ll stop bothering you” and her response was to kiss him, then continue to ignore his advances, I was confused

[@lokhunt4329]

Same, and it's very easy and makes sense somewhat for the show. I can understand RAB's perspective, but I've got to say it's being clouded here. She said that she was "April" two different times. Which would obviously color anything that occurs in a similar vein. April immediately continued to keep Donnie liking her with a kiss when he himself was about to break it up in the bigfoot episode. I understand that the perspective thing isn't her fault, but when she's saying that it's impossible for April to do that. I've got to call it out. Sorry for vomiting this all up to you in this reply Sunny.

[@Prettylucy59]

I remember watching this episode when I was younger, and when Donnie telling her he was backing off his romantic affection towards her, I was cheering for him because he finally understood. But when she kissed him, I screamed out loud. And when he says I understand nothing, I yelled same because I was so confused about why she kissed him. After the episode ended, I just thought that during his confession, she realized she liked him too, but it went back to Donnie liking April and April being uncomfortable. It didn't make sense, but it "worked out in the end."

[@travelersjoy854]

I've been an April three times, with a girl, a guy, and a nonbinary person. They sucked equally, and I totally get why April acted the way she did. Honestly, the fact that a lot of loud fandom people harped on her for being manipulative made me feel even more guilty than I already did...until I remembered that I was just a teenage kid who didn't want to hurt my friends, just like April. I'm currently dealing with a fourth April situation, but uh...here's hoping that turns out okay. Thanks for the way you treated her character in this vid- I'm really glad you pointed that out!

[@SaffronicSaffron]

You got this.

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

Honestly, I wish Casey AND Donnie both dropped their crushes, and a broship triangle between Donnie, Raph, and Casey, where brothers compete to be Casey's best bro

[@travelersjoy854]

@@antithoughtpolice7497 okay that would be so awesome tho??

[@nelonwa7754]

You're pulling all the genders babe

[@davidc.]

It's wrong though because when Donnie does get over her and tell her he is sorry she kisses him. It comes off as manipulative af. Just shitty writing in general

[@boomgirlbucko]

I'm at around 17:52 and I'm just gonna say that the whole reason people think April is emotionally manipulating Donnie, is because of the bigfoot episode. She gets really uncomfortable at Donnie's romantic gesture and by the end of the episode he tells her "I get it now, I'll leave you alone from now on" and then she FREAKING KISSES HIM! Donnie then says "I understand nothing..." which yeah, same here Donnie!!

[@lokhunt4329]

Same, she's clouded with her own personal biases. It's not her fault, just pointing out why people see this, which I see as well, and then say April's manipulative.

[@meowmeowghost]

if rise gets continued i will actually cry happy tears. i like that there are no romances in rise but i feel like if they bring back mona for raph and make leo and usagi a thing it could work really well

[@glitterboxx19]

I would have liked to see that happen if the series was continued

[@charliepeck82]

There’s some kind of irony and disgust at having TEENAGE!April be more sexualized/ male-gazey within canon compared to her other mature iterations at the time

[@felixsfreckles6822]

IKR? Even 1987 April, the version lf her that everyone liked mostly because she was hot and has the most NSFW fanart, wasn't as sexualized in her design and show as much as 2012 April, and she was literally 28 years old! 2012 April's body was hourglass shaped with wide hips and perky breasts, her clothes looked like they were painted on unlike any other character, every scene with her shot from the back while focusing on another character had her ass shown 80% of the time (The Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman was the worst example of this), they knew what they were doing, and it's sick

[@starsneptunexx]

It’s Nickelodeon, I’m not surprised 💀😭

[@jamestolbert1856]

What if Leo had a talk with Karai and says that he wants to just be friends and doesn’t want to feel awkward towards the fact he’s in love with her own sister. And she agrees and decides to just be friends

[@bananasinfrench]

Hmm wow it sure is strange how every single female character in 2012 has to be a love interest! It's almost like chicks in 2012 are only here as props for the male counterparts! Jokes aside this is a really great video, amazing work. I feel that pain over Mutant Mayhem Leo and April haha. Honestly tmnt as a franchise doesn't need romance, the theme at the core is all about family (something that 2012 consistently gets dead wrong, but I digress). That segment about characters saying they don't want romance, and then their "happy ending" including a romantic relationship was so satisfying. It's always driven me insane, especially when it's presented as a "lack of maturity."

[@fictionalcharactermov7471]

even if them being love interest whats wrong with that? At the end of the day tmnt is still mostly a guy property.

[@bananasinfrench]

@@fictionalcharactermov7471 My man are you saying that shows aimed at young boys don't need to humanize female characters? Because that's the issue, it's not that they're romantic interests, it's that they're *only* romantic interests. Intentional or not, the message that portrays is that that's a woman's only value. Hope that helps clear up the confusion. Also strongly disagree on it being a male-oriented franchise. Maybe that's what the corporates thought, but from what I've seen of fandom spaces it's an even spread, women might even be the majority. Tmnt 2003 was the favorite cartoon of my sisters and I as kids.

[@dylansharp8471]

What about Mutant Mayhem?

[@LegendXD00]

To say none of the female characters are humanized is pretty laughable and a massive reach to stand on some soap box while pretending once again that unless female characters are all “alpha girl bosses then it’s not proper representation of women” because not every female character in fiction has to “represent” all of womankind. I don’t see you complaining how mike is portrayed as a stupid idiot who’s only role is to be comedic relief, barely making him a character. April’s dad serves the role as her father and nothing else. No personality, no stakes within the plot, nothing. Or how about xever or razar? Characters that are the main/some focus of the story. Shredder’s entire reason for turning evil is because a woman rejected him but if there was a female villain that turned evil because a guy rejected her you’d complain about that too. All these characters with so little attention but you’re conveniently quiet when the same “minimal” writing is done towards the male characters. Your last point doesn’t even make sense. Where is the evidence supporting this claim? Believe it or not, but female fans can also enjoy stories with a male demographic, that doesn’t suddenly mean they somehow “make the majority” lol. Do you know how many guys watched Wonder Woman despite the main demographic being towards women?

[@bananasinfrench]

@@LegendXD00 You've misread every word of my post. Invest in some critical reading skills and then come back and try again.

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

One trope I loathed in media was when there was a specific monster or antagonist designed to take out the male protagonists, usually a female monster that uses hormone/love powers to manipulate the male characters, because it always feels like the writers are patting themselves on the back by making their show 'feminist', when in reality they're just making a situation where only the women can solve the problem. It's like saying "Well since the men aren't here, I guess the girls will have to solve the problem." There are other problems I have with writing women in media, I feel like sometimes you just can't have two girls on a team, without some invisible rule that says they must be not just friends, but best friends, or build up to being friends, or they must hate each other/ have a rivalry potentially over one of the male protagonists.

[@dylansharp8471]

Uh what?

[@isaacwatkins8188]

I think you need to go outside.

[@rizma_dizma4391]

I get what you’re saying. I call them aphrodisiac villains that men can’t resist and somehow the woman can because only men are ever affected or attracted to women.

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

@@rizma_dizma4391 It's just such a lazy trope. Like if you want to make your female characters badass just write them that way, while still giving them personalities. It really isn't that hard.

[@wonderfulrose477]

Teen Titans subverted this trope pretty well in the marionette doll episode, where the guys are taken control of and Raven/Starfire have to bond and learn each other’s powers.

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

I ended up writing a brief scene for Rise Leo and Yuichi Usagi, where the Hamato family go to a fancy restaurant only for the couple to go to Senor Hueso's pizza with Leo begging Hueso for help, and Hueso immediately figures out what's going on and gives him the most romantic dinner he could want for Yuichi. I also wrote scenes where Mikey gets Yuichi to bust a gut laughing, and a separate Donnie is slightly judgy, joking that Yuichi can do better.

[@Lanafan142]

I think it's what I think, but I dont really ship leo and usagi cause usagi isn't really a tmnt character, and they just see each other as close friends. It's just what I think, but you enjoy seeing leo usagi being shipped than that's fine.

[@keilasanchez1518]

@@Lanafan142your right, it’s weird to ship since their different properties, but honestly I wouldn’t mind if rise made a completely different character with inspiration from Usagi Yojimbo.

[@GokuUzumaki03]

I find it odd that this series, Michael Bay’s TMNT movies, and even the newest TMNT movie have one thing in common that I hate seeing: a Ninja Turtle falling in love with April. The first TMNT content that I’ve watched was the 2003 series. So to me, it’s feels weird of a mutated Turtle just wanting to be in a relationship (and eventually marrying) to as human girl like April. It’s like one of the people making either one of these wants to see a Ninja Turtle and April have a human-turtle hybrid child. Some people have forgotten, but FUN FACT, when making TMNT (2007), one of the rules is to LITERALLY not have April in a relationship with a Ninja Turtle. April already has a perfect relationship with Casey (best example is in the 1990 movie and 2003 series) since they both met up because of the Turtles, hated each other at first until they start to grown attached together. Now I am not saying that the Ninja Turtles should’nt be in a relationship, but they should get together with a female mutant like Ralphael and Mona Lisa.

[@shindarene6900]

relationships don't need to involve children or s*x hope you know that

[@s-boy4613]

See, i could've agreed with you about the whole "April isn't leading donnie on, she just doesn't know how to let him down easy"...If she hadn't constantly kept kissing Donnie despite not wanting to be with him, giving him constant mixed signals. You even mentioned the worst instance, the bigfoot episode. Donnie FINALLY acknowledges he makes April uncomfortable and was ready to back down. But she plants a kiss on him and calls him "My mutant"? In which he appropriately responds with "I understand nothing"?? WHY??? He finally undrrstands you're not comfortable with dating him. Just say "thank you fir understanding, Donnie" and give him a hug or something. I can't stand this love triangle. All three characters are in-fucking-sufferable.

[@lokhunt4329]

This, 👍, couldn't agree more, it's the have your cake and eat it situation. It's the first relationship they introduce, and never complete it. I personally like the karai x leo ship, just would have had her be Shredder's daughter, so it'd be an enemy's to lover's trope. It's also the same as donnie and april, they make them siblings, but still make them flirt.

[@umbra_kyu]

I was a monalisa, i was forced to grow up too young too soon. Always getting the “you’re so mature” comments, getting the opposite of infantilization was terrible and i felt bad when people thought she must’ve been an adult in this series.

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

I often couldn't tell if the romance between Don and April was either a running gag or a genuine subplot. It did get plenty of laughs out of me, but it did often get uncomfortable. I like TMNT 2012, though I wouldn't call it a genuine favourite. I loved the action scenes and emotional drama that made for substantially engaging chemistry, but I would sometimes get bored and lose interest. Having said that, I comfortably view it as a good programme.

[@meowmeowghost]

i actually disliked 2012 donnie because his behavior towards april made me really uncomfortable and reminded me of boys that felt entitled to me from an early age. he's my favorite character in rise and i feel like i would've really liked him in 2012 as well if it weren't for his obsession with april

[@DCT-tt8ib]

I’ve seen this sentiment in the comments of a lot on other Donnie x April critiques (Even here lol), but MAN was it a colossal missed opportunity for there not to be an episode that draws the pretty (unintentionally) obvious parallels between Donnie’s crush on April and Shredder’s obsession with Tang Chen. Then again, missed opportunities are kind of a reoccurring thing with TMNT 2012. TMNT 2003 is my favorite like a lot of people, but I still hold a soft spot for TMNT 2012. A lot of it’s because of nostalgia, but I also think what it does get right, it gets really right (IMO it still has my favorite Raph, Splinter, and Shredder outside of the comics, and Leo and Karai hold their own fairly well compared to their other counterparts). But man oh man, is it a very flawed series. There’s flaws that bothered me as a kid following along from episode one (The very noticeable seasonal rot after Season 2, how underused the not-explicitly-villainous side characters are, and Mikey just being stuck as the dumb one) and there’s issues I’ve gradually developed over time, both with age and also Rise and 03 as comparisons (The repetition of certain arcs/developments, how badly it fumbles the returning characters from 03 like Hun and Bishop, the romance stuff, the overusage of more comedic episodes even its final seasons, and certain characters, and how some characters like Karai and Kirby just become trauma/angst-sinks). But one issue that’s always brought down the show for me then and now is the Love Triangle. The romantic stuff in the show as a whole is already pretty flawed, but most of it I can just kinda ignore. The Love Triangle basically just becomes Donnie, Casey, and April’s whole thing and it brings the show down with it the longer it goes one. As a kid, I hated it for being boring, drawn out, and unfunny. But as a semi-grown ass man, I now hate it for kneecapping Donnie’s development, kneecapping Casey’s development, and basically amputating the legs off of April’s development.

[@monch6183]

As much as I LOVE the TMNT 2012 series (It was my first, so that may have an influence of that), what you said is SO RIGHT! I get so heated when people label April as emotionally manipulative for not turning Donnie's feelings down. I chalk up to her kissing donnie that bigfoot episode to the writer's being ass. Nonetheless, I just chalked up to her being an awkward teenage girl who didn't know how to handle the situation of rejecting a friend that's so deeply intertwined with the rest of her friendships. It was stated that she doesn't have much friends besides Irma (and we know how that turned out.) Honestly I wished that TMNT 2012 was rewritten. The entirety of the TMNT 2012 series is just FILLED with wasted potential, not only in the romance aspect but everything else. There was great potential for April's character, great potential for generational trauma to be explored within the Hamato household, wasted potential with the exploration of the turtles' psyche and the detrimental effects of traumas from their experiences, and wasted potential for Kirai and whatever tf was going on with their relationship with Leo. (Don't even get me started on the whole Leo/Karai inc*st thing, I have many thoughts and none of them are good.) Which sucks because I LOVE the idea of Leo having a friend where he let's loose of the responsible older sibling role and acts like a mischevious little shit with, his friendship with Karai would've lowkey been iconic if there wasn't that weird inc*st/romance subplot. But at the end of the day, it was a children's show in 2012. There are many moments that I wish there was an animated TMNT show for older audiences, that way it can explore more mature themes without it being dumbed down or just messed up by the writers altogether. (I also love the more grittier TMNT versions in general.) Anyways I can make an entire video essay series on TMNT 2012 series, but the only thing stopping me is college and work. The writers of TMNT 2012 just sucked at writing women in general, but I agreed that Y'Gythba/Mona Lisa and Raphael did make a cute couple (Strong women supremacy.) Karai and Shinigami's relationship was a nice cherry on top too, love them. TLDR; TMNT 2012's writers suck at writing women (and just writing in general).

[@littlesparrow303]

I loved Karai x Shinigami way more than Karai x Leo. They really cared about each other, they balance out each other & seem to be really close too

[@monch6183]

@@littlesparrow303 oh same! yeah i don’t even ship Kirai and Leo together, (I actually headcanon Leo as AroAce and Kirai as WLW) I just LOVE their friendship as a concept, because we see Leo from being so morally uptight and responsible around his brothers but around his “sister” you see him let loose. In a matter of fact, in later seasons, Shinigami, Kirai, and Leo actually did morally gray VIGILANTE work together! I thought that dynamic was so interesting and I wish that Leo’s duality was explored more, tho it was touched on briefly in the show

[@ashesGeek]

​@monch6183 wait, how did TMNT 2012 suck at writing off women? Sure, I understand Karai's story arc dragged on longer that it should've been and April was rough at times, but all 4 of them were equally valuable to the plot and were on par with Turtles(except Shinigami, but at the point she appeared too late and she didn't have time to do anything and Alopex is just one-off character here)

[@3lle272]

While I do agree with the romances arc being whack. But I don't agree that the writing for the show is bad....

[@monch6183]

@@ashesGeek I think that the writing of women in the TMNT 12 series was bad in the same way that most cartoons (of that era) just sucked at writing women. From what I noticed from cartoons (specifically aimed at boys) is that the women are often one dimensional and serve as a love interests. I totally admit that they were valuable to the plot, the majority of season 1 April conisted of her investigating Kraang and taking ACTION to save his dad (Season 1 ep 10 for example, April took initiative to spy on the purple dragons & discovered Shredder's plan to take out the sewer, badass i admit), And Karai had some iconic moments that made me love her (Shinigami too), but that doesn't change the fact that sometimes, the writers kinda flopped on their writing. I feel like the writers didn't know how to handle April sometimes (specifically her feelings) and she came off kinda boring in the beginning, Karai was a good character, even if Leo had to save her at times, she sometimes saved him too, but the inc*st subplot ruined her character a bit, and Making Shini a love interest to Mikey even tho he already had one was just.... awkward. God forbid we have ONE MAIN FEMALE character that wasn't a love interest. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, it's my favorite adaptation, but I have my own criticisms. Sorry for the essay! You did bring a valid point tho!!

[@perro7047]

37:16 love that you showed Saiki when mentioning aromantic people 💕 also Raph calling Y'Gythgba Mona Lisa because it's considered the most beautiful painting of a woman in Art IS SO CUTE 💕💕💕 AND THE FACT THAT WHEN COMING UP WITH SAID NICKNAME, HE THOUGHT SHE WAS AS BEAUTIFUL AS SAID PAINTING IS- 😭💕💕💕 I'm Mexican and if someone asked if they could call me the Mona Lisa and not my name instead because they couldn't pronounce my name properly and I reminded them of a painting of a woman that is considered the most beautiful painting in art then yes I think I too would be chill with that 🙏 (also I'm pretty sure Y'Gythgba probably knows what the Mona Lisa is by now with how advanced her homeworld is)

[@adaralevine781]

About April being with any of the turtles- in most versions, she is an ADULT. With a JOB. And a HOUSE. In my opinion, if you have to age a character down to make it work, that is probably a sign that the ship is not going to do well.

[@lu4n_v1ct0r2]

Raphael's romance in the animation, despite being strange, is the only one that makes sense.

[@dillongeorge5866]

34:09 Y’know sometimes I forget Ben Schwartz plays Leo in Rise, and every time I get reminded, it makes me happy 😂 Also kinda funny Raphael of all of them has the most tolerable relationship 😅

[@annafowdy]

He's always someone in blue.

[@Sevvolf]

It's hilarious how strong the Leosagi 03 is held in regard and they never intended them to be looked at as such, however when writers outright intend to push a romance on to the turtles they flop so hard.

[@burnforeverandever]

TMNT 2012 is a hard show to love, So many unused and misused good ideas. I could list all of them like everything about Tigerclaw, Timothy or how they redo the same shit with Shredder or The Krang over and over again. But I'm mostly upset at how they had the most perfectly ugly character (Vic) and they turned him into a spider.

[@aerostrafe1075]

Rise Leo is my favorite kind of Flamboyant. Think I saw a video that described him best. "Man didnt come out the closet, he ripped the door of its hinges and took it with him." 03 leo still my favorite version of leo but rise leo is second.

[@FriedFish3224]

For April and Donnie I agree, it’s really annoying. Sometimes it’s not terrible, they have had good moments, but overall Donnie is just a creepy stalker to April and April is still a little young to tell him to stop and then hurt him. Leo and Karai. Ughhhhhhh. I love this ship but they’re siblings. WHY NICKELODEON, WHY. I would love this if maybe karai didn’t end up being miwa and that role went to someone else entirely. Karai just maybe ends up being shredders daughter, then turns to the good side and we get the same storyline excluding being splinters daughter. Then it would be perfect. But nooooo 😩 Mikey and Renet are ok, but like no. I feel like Mikey still is too young and immature for a girlfriend. In the episode where the other turtles enter Mikey’s head, Donnie states that Mikey never fully matured past the age of six. So why is he given a love interest? Just no I don’t like it. And Mona and Raph. The cutest. Couple. Ever. They are perfect for each other, and compliment the others traits. No one is being weird or creepy, it’s just two people (mutants? Aliens? Whatever it doesn’t matter) who really love each other and ultimately want the best for each other. Perfection. Mona and Raph really should have had more screen time and oh I wish this show wasn’t cancelled because we need more of these two.

[@thatrandomtsundere3476]

That first relationship. Yeah having a girl who doesn’t like you but you like them and your in a big fiend group together is something one of my friends does all the time lol. He falls for any girl who spends more then five minutes with the group. I’ve had multiple conversations with him. Seems he can’t like a girl without liking them romantically pretty much.

[@mdsystems4463]

Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:14 Donnie x April (feat Cassy) 26:32 Leo x Karai 35:36 Mikey x Renet Tilley/Shinigami 44:21 Raphael x Mona Lisa 58:01 Conclusion

[@aff77141]

Man, I love shipping but I cannot imagine how many issues show runners would avoid if they just stopped forcing romance into everything and occasionnally let queer people like. Breathe... Imagine that. What a world.

[@Randamono]

I had repressed my memories of that Bigfoot episode and you awoke that trauma… “Whatever it is kraang and shredder have”😭💀 Awesome video, u won a sub.

[@lalalucy4499]

I like to think that the anime influence found in the TMNT 2012 show goes deeper as April definitely fits the typical "female love interest" in every shonen manga ever...which is a shame as I loved this version growing up :(

[@10Bendog]

I watched the ‘12 show when it was coming out and very recently rewatched it because I remembered very little from it (aside from how much I hated all the romances in it, with the exception of Raph and Mona). The rewatch gave me some new appreciation for some things I had forgotten about (like Slash, Mikey and Leatherhead’s friendship or Raph’s softer side), but it also made me realize how many other bigger aspects of it I’m not too fond of, aside from the mess that is the shipping. Some of them include: The fact they teased Splinter’s death so many times that it kinda took away from when they eventually pulled the trigger, Mikey being the reason for the conflict in at least 1/3 of the episodes and being actively annoying to watch when he constantly got everyone in trouble, Shredder being more petty than intimidating and honestly overstaying his welcome as a villain with just how shallow of a character I found him, the show’s general problem of committing to a lot of things and just kinda becoming repetitive later on, crossing over with the ‘87 turtles twice, but not once with ‘03 and some more. Oh, and the running gag of the cartoon they watched each season that kinda paralleled their story. I was done with that gag back in season 1.

[@d-actionproductions650]

Here’s how I find it Leo and Karri: weird Donne and April: confusing Mickey and Ernet: cute but forgettable Raph and Mona: Normal love

[@lunnie_dummie]

Literally the best review about this unfortunately rarely deeply talked about the fandom could ever ask for. I took me an hour and a half to actually finish the video because I wouldn’t stop giggling, stimming and talking to myself/pos

[@hopefulfriend4163]

Nick execs: Alright people, the response to our latest Leonardo and Karai relationship was not selling well, any ideas on what to do for our next go at it? Every Rise writer consecutively at once: 🏳️‍🌈?

[@Commenter839]

💀

[@mymsm2005]

51:02 As a Hispanic with a name that is very difficult to pronounce when read on paper, it's really not that big of a deal. My main nickname actually came from my younger siblings/cousins who couldn't pronounce my name when they were first learning to speak and it just stuck, and my friends growing up had their own nickname for me as well. I think it's nice and its more personal, and yeah now that we're all older they can pronounce my name properly but my nickname still sticks around to this day. A nickname or substitute name isn't the same as when immigrants where being forcibly renamed to appear more American in the early 1900s. Also there is many white immigrants to and have non English names. Just try to pronounce a name in Russian, German, Polish, Italian, etc.

[@katiec2758]

I don't know if this is controversial but I feel like like 2012 tmnt is incredibly rough.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Well, at least the creator of this channel agrees with you.

[@dylansharp8471]

Rough?

[@jacm4150]

it sucks

[@catscanhavelittleasalami]

I used to watch it when I was younger and I enjoyed it. Now tho... I'd probably hate it. It IS rough.

[@spider-manunknown9193]

@@jacm4150it doesn’t.

[@bluehunter4471]

Raphael is the best written mature character between all the turtles he has more character than the rest and he is in a constant struggle and the fact he watched a few of his friends die many of them go missing and more. Mikey is well written because he is immature and is written as so. Donnie and Leo are going through a superiority complex and puberty at the same time.

[@amndmirk]

hhhhhhrhrhhrhhhhh. Rise April is quite literally part of the family. to a point where she is admitted part of Hamatos by the end of season 2. her spirit even shows up along with all of the brothers when they defeat Shredder. that is why i think the sibling dynamic between her and Donnie is so apparent and intentional. and I wouldn't have it any other way. (^^^ holding back my scream of anguish)

[@Commenter839]

Yes, I'm totally fine with the sister-type relationship April had with them in Rise. I really enjoy how all the main relationships are written in Rise- it's surprisingly really wholesome, probably because they can just have the characters be themselves and aren't forcing themselves to write in a romance arc. Who knows if they might've written romance into the show had it not been cancelled. But I also doubt they had that planned, since the closest things we got to a romance in almost 2 seasons was Splinter/Big Mama's weird fling, and *maybe* Leo checking out 2 guys in the Hidden City, as a stretch

[@felixsfreckles6822]

​@@Commenter839the writers confirmed that every relationship in the show was strictly platonic or familial, so even if they continued, there would have been zero romance, which is a blessing

[@annam2364]

I'm working my way through 2012 TMNT and I've heard about the romance and questionable writing. I'm glad fans that watched the show when it was on, give it a fair criticism while still highlighting the pros. I'm living for all the Rise references you made as well. "Leo the fruit ninja" had me laughing sm. And your rant about Rise Raphmona was so valid!

[@rosennacht7624]

I really like Rise TMNT that I wished I was familiar with that show first rather than tmnt 2012. The 2012 show looked boring to me when I was younger and I wasn’t a fan of the artstyle or the DonniexApril thing. I think the only aspects I liked was Beast Boy’s voice actor as Mikey and Splinter’s design. It disinterested me from watching any other tmnt media until I decided to watch the rise series randomly this year.

[@rabnerd28]

You should watch 03 as well. It's honestly the best one.

[@georgeshaw4017]

@@rabnerd28 I agree, Shredder is a total monster. Well, at least two of the three of them are!

[@nobodyspecl3071]

My kid brain always thought every relationship was weird. Being 18 now, I understand how weird and uncomfortable some of these ships are. Donnies stalking, jealousy, and controlling of April always made me uncomfortable. Leo and karai didn’t bother me till karai turned out to be his sister. Mikey and Renet seemed force. She just appeared for Mikey to crush on. Mikey and Shinagami is similar but not as forced. Seeing my favorite turtle (Ralph) kiss a alien lizard made my kid brain traumatized.

[@NoT_Leo2804]

Only that got you traumatised? Man, I still remember first time I had seen that giant worm screaming-bird or that mutant car...Even though I felt spooked I still loved it.

[@lovelylife-tz4be]

I dislike the trope of the female lead not wanting a romantic relationship just to end up with someone sweeping her of her feet. That is the reason why, if I tell someone I don't want or need a romantic relationship, people are always like "don't worry honey, you find someone someday". It insinuates that you need to have a romantic relationship in order to Function in Society. Just for the record I'm a panromantic asexual who hasn't had a date, on purpose, for the past 8 years. Great video btw❤

[@billyboleson2830]

Wait you mean to tell me they added a GOTH NINJA LADY to a tmnt …. and NOBODY talks about her?????? Like I’m only just NOW finding this out? I’m seriously disappointed in you internet like cmon this is basic 101 how did she not get more popular? Also common tmnt 03 W 1:03:11

[@masonstewart6232]

Moral of the story: Nickelodeon, Tmnt fans, get your sh*t together and let Rise get at least 2 more seasons. We need it *I need it*

[@masonstewart6232]

@@immortalbeast Maybe. Who knows

[@masonstewart6232]

​@@immortalbeastWe still have 1 Krang unaccounted for from the movie, and multiple characters from past Tmnt series that have shown their faces (like Mona and Usagi) Plus, while this is a bit of a stretch and kinda pushing things a little bit too much, there have been Tmnt 2003 did have multiple Shredders. The remaining krang could create a new suit of mystic armor and make a new shredder from someone or themselves In the end though, I just want to see some more Rottmnt with similar quality to the movie and the 2nd half of season 2

[@Commenter839]

​@@masonstewart6232I would love to see the Rise Krang come back someday, although I doubt that would feasibly happen even if the show was renewed (which it definitely should be, wink wink Nickelodeon). It's gonna be hard to top Krang 1 as a primary antagonist, and iirc the writers planned to have the Rat King be the main antagonist after the Krang. That, and the only living Krang who isn't in the prison dimension is Krang 2, who didn't seem like the brightest of the bunch. I do wish she'd been killed off instead of captured though, just for that extra sense of finality. But either way this show needs more seasons. I think I'd be able to die happy if this show managed to get renewed as like, a Netflix original or something and kept the PG rating from the movie. But I'd be happy with anything tbh

[@masonstewart6232]

@@Commenter839 Krang 3 is unaccounted for and was not confirmed dead, plus we don't see him at the end when Krang 2 is caught. His motivation could also be to steal back the prison key and bring back his brother and save his sister. Besides, Tmnt has do a lot of crazy stuff, especially Rise. A lot ideas could have/could *(wink wink)* been done for the show. I just really like Rise as of recent due to its high energy and colorful characters, along with the whole powers dynamic with the Turtles. It was done incredibly dirty by Nick, and I just wish it had more time to shine. Also, the fans biased towards 2003 and 2012, stop insulting and complaining about Rise for being something different from the said *norm.* Please just shut up.

[@BabyGirlTiny]

Nah, rise is garbage

[@StarlainDisguise]

LOVED THIS VIDEO SO SO MUCH!! Thank you for not saying that April's manipulative. As much as I despise her writing and even her attitude at times I don't think the writers were ever intentionally making her lead Donnie on. It's really hard to reject people, especially friends, and especially one of your ONLY friends (April seems relatively unpopular) and shaming TEENAGERS for not doing it in the best way possible is icky. The one thing I will say is that while I don't think they intended it, I do think some of her actions COULD come off as the writers making her unintentionally lead on, but not outright attention-seeking. Like, the kiss at the end of A Foot Too Big just seems so weird and doesn't make sense with any characterization for her ever. But I don't know. She just feels so inconsistent and they really did not know what to do with her, they just gave her more powers and called it a day. The 2012 April hate should go towards her writing and not her I WILL NEVER EVER EVER UNDERSTAND THE FANDOM'S JUSTIFICATIONS FOR LEORAI. They're siblings. Or at least close enough to siblings for it to be weird. Don't play the "technically" game! Mikey's love interests always bothered me a lot, like a lot a lot a lot. Why would you introduce a woman and then just default to Mikey liking her? And yeah eghhhh...There's just so many problems with Mikey having a love interest, like how infantilized he is, and the possible aro erasure, and just giving him a love interest because eVerYOne ELsE DoEs! Weird. Honestly Shini and Karai were dating. I will never take no for an answer. And I would've REALLY loved to see a Rise Shinigami with all her extra powers having some sort of plot relevance because of the mystic thing! Would've been awesome. And yeah Bebop and Rocksteady holding hands with hearts playing in the background isn't coding or anything they're FOR REAL !!!! Love them !!! Raphmona is the only good one I like them! BUT I WILL SAY I was a little weirded out that Raph started liking her after she hit him idk that just...They definitely could have showed her being strong in a different way. Other than that, great ship! Love them a lot!

[@StarlainDisguise]

Also I never thought about 12 Apriltello in a self-inserty way that is really gross ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa

[@DanielKariuki-er5gi]

30:53 with all the Dan Schneider stuff I think Nickelodeon has done a lot of worse things in their quote on quote "kids shows"

[@morisatsuki3659]

I loved this analysis. Never really got into 2012 at the time. Rise TMNT hooked me and now I've been scouring everything for my TMNT fix. So the 2012 romances really did make it hard to get through some parts of this series because it was just so saturated in the ongoings of each episode and I wondered if it was just me not really getting into them since I am quite critical of romances.

[@quibbs126]

I’m realizing that Ninjago does not pass the April O’Neil test (at least with the pilot/Season 1 cast, since the team was expanded with Lloyd very early)

[@karystmania5509]

54:57 THANK YOU! I was so incredibly disappointed when I saw that she wasn't there like bruh. How do you waste that? They had it right there! And yes I also agree with them needing more screentime cause my god there was not enough of it. Maybe if they had more episodes for that season they probably could've. Ah well. I'm happy that we did at least get to see her in this show and that her and Raph are the actual best part of the show. But seriously why did we not get moreeeee I would also add I'm making an comic adaptation of one of my fave episodes of 03 where I have added Mona.

[@blasianking4827]

It's a shame because 2012 TMNT series is GOATed in my eyes as what introduced me to TMNT as a kid, I remember the theme song and it's the iteration I look back on the most fondly of course, given the only other adaptations I've seen are the more recent ones like the 2007 movie, live-action ones (ew lmao), the Rise one (movie, not series yet), and the recent Mutant Mayhem. But listening to you talk about their relationship dynamic for a bit made me think about it a bit more and you're right; even just from that 2012 show I was familiar with each of the turtles and their differing traits and interests and dynamics with each other, but when I think about April in that show I mostly remember her as 'the cute girl/love interest', I don't think I ever got to understand her as a character with depth from that show. RIse/Mutant Mayhem did a way better job with her.

[@littlesparrow303]

As a teen when this was airing, I was really into Leo x Karai & Donnie x April a lot. Even I knew the message of Donnie moving on could have been good. Looking back, Leorai could have worked but it did get bad & Donnie could have been with someone better. S4 I prefer Shinigami x Karai because they seemed to balance each other, really protective of each other & really close. Good to know one of the writers like them & it does seem that they are a item. Same I wish we could get Shinigami in more TMNT series especially with Karai.

[@jamestolbert1856]

Ok what I hate about this April is that she never tells Donnie or Casey that she doesn’t love them and finds them to be creepy and sexualizes her AND NO ONE TRIES TO HELP HER DO IT

[@smoczeq4039]

2003 Leo and Miyamoto will always be canon in my heart

[@patdion3606]

Based

[@artemisaix]

Raph and Mona makes me die for love ! They're so adorable. Btw it's fun to me that Raph actually want to give her a true mouth kiss when he imagine the bug being Mona , then he realized he was mouth kissing a insect xD.

[@GLTTERXRAZI]

LOOK WHO FINALLY CAME OUT OF THEIR BATCAVE (all jokes aside, we miss you! can’t wait to watch this video all the way through!)

[@k3ylimeash370]

14:24 “Why did you approve of this Nickelodeon” This show shared a network with a lot of Dan Schneider’s shows, if that tells you anything. ☠️

[@captaincrunch784]

"Non-human dating king" LOL Priceless

[@surraciddac170]

I will tell you as a former Apritello shipper back in the day when it was popular (especially on Deviantart.) I’m 99% sure it became popular either on fandom interpretations that didn’t match the actual canon thing or because of Donnie being pretty favored in the fandom. (Or of course, possibly 2003 nostalgia kicking in for some shippers.) I watched a set of videos on TikTok about it which inspired me to do an Apritello rewrite. Hopefully I can do it but I want to emulate how it would’ve been better written and adorable. I picture it being that Donnie is curious about humans meeting April for the first time but feeling bad for her missing father, wanting to make sure she’s okay since it’s a big risk that she may become a target. April would find comfort in Donnie, the two of them slowly hanging out to both figure out where her dad was taken and having moments of bonding such as video games or learning how they both grew up. I favor more slow burn, I picture Donnie getting feelings maybe Season 2 or 3. I know people often prefer April as more of a sister than a love interest, which is still valid. I even get it if people have bad vibes because of TMNT 2012 but I don’t think it’s a bad thing if it’s handled with care. So far, I think one that has done a good job was Mutant Mayhem because it utilized character chemistry, boundaries, and didn’t make it creepy like this.

[@dannhoff6646]

Lmaoo I actually think I have some memories of my sister watching this show (she loved this show so much, she saw all the seasons I believe) and shipping Leo x Karai, and watching/making fanart. I remember she was really invested... Until she wasn't.... And I remember asking her "Hey, what happened to your ship (or something like that)" and she just had this dead tired "please don't fucking ask me" stare in her face, and I was like "ah... I see..." And I never brought up that again LMAOOO

[@yoysters]

I just hit the jackpot of youtube videos holy shit An hour long video?? On one of my childhood shows?? About a topic that i completely agree with and want people to realise is a problem?? Bless your heart for making this

[@bringiton4drago371]

I will forever gate the fact they made Karai their sister. Like why you had Leo unknowingly wanting to date his sister!

[@richborn6700]

Just like Next Mutation

[@mollietenpenny4093]

I didn't really like the 2012 TMNT ships. I always shipped the turtles with my own OCs. 😅 Creating my TMNT OCs helped me learn how to become a better writer in the long run. Also, when it comes to the ship LeoRai, I'm kind of weirded out by it. Ciro Nieli said on the Nickelodeon Animation Podcast that one of his favorite movies was The Royal Tenenbaums. In the movie there's a brother and (adopted) sister who are secretly in love.😳

[@jesusrox4u]

I’ll admit I get sick of media making it out that getting with someone is something one should strive for and it’s bad if you’re not with someone. That mentality and mindset lead to me dealing with a lot of lack of confidence and even depression at times due to never doing well when it came to finding someone who’d be interested in me and/or want to be with me. If someone is able to find someone to be with, that’s good, but if they’re single, that can also be good and it’s not the end of the world.

[@spacescribs5838]

I’m so glad someone else has pointed this out. Don’t get me wrong I love 2012 it was my first official introduction to tmnt (I watched bits of 2003 but was never as into it) but the way they wrote women is so bad I’m glad April got her flowers during Rise instead of being demoted to love interest or “girl”. Plus she looks like me and I think younger me would of appreciated that.

[@thevelbaetum4118]

I remember loving karai x leo so much bc i was very emo and punk when i watched this series, and just really liked karai, but when i realized they were siblings my soul.. just.. faded away Mona and raph are without a doubt the cutest part of the entire series, and mikeys true love is his pet icecream kitty ❤️

[@twigb6863]

WhAt ArE yOu DoInG sTeP bRo

[@J-RS21]

Raph: that’s ( smack) Leo: ow Raph: how (smack) Donnie: ow Raph: you do (smack) Mikey: oww! Raph: a relationship (smack) Casey: ah!

[@Freezient]

I’ve seen a lot of former 2012 AprilxDonnie shippers flock over to the Rise version because they are way better portrayed despite not having any romantic relationships. I’m definitely turtle should be single camp, but I also like Turtle x human because it’s hilarious

[@funkin-fungoid]

Made me think of the fact that my bf called shredder an incel the moment he heard the backstory. I mean, not false?

[@solalveolite3606]

I remember watching the show when I was a kid, and I LOVED April and Donnie "romance". But even for me, a 10 y/o at that moment, it was really frustrating to not know what was going to happen with the ship because of the writting. And afer being a cuple of times in April's position as I grew up, I finally understood how akward it actually was...

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

Can you imagine if they dropped the love triangle and picked up a bro triangle? Raph and Donnie compete to Casey's best friend And aromantic people are a very small percentage of people, and loads of kids did grow out of their disdain for romance, so i wouldn't talk like they NEVER do that.

[@Ana_TheBanana14]

As someone who grew up on tmnt 2012 I remember vividly cringing when there was a April x Donnie scene. There were times when I literally had to walk away from the TV lmao 💀💀💀