Why Torchwood SHOULDN'T Return (And Not For The Reason You Think) - DOCTOR WHO Discussion

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[@Benji568]

Torchwood had it's day. I want an Eighth Doctor spin off with Paul McGann.

[@emilioalberto6967]

That would be interesting to see! I also wouldn’t mind another season of Class…

[@Benji568]

@@emilioalberto6967 Ehh... Class was a bit too gory just for the sake of it for my liking. Wasn't a fan I'm afraid. Just my opinion.

[@redjirachi1]

It's criminal that the new series never did a multi-Doctor episode with him. He's the least explored (non-retcon) Doctor in live media, has a huge expanded universe and they even have the excuse of having the actor aged because we didn't (again, until retcon) see when he regenerated

[@mayotango1317]

No, the 8 Doctor also had it's Day.

[@marionbaggins]

@@mayotango1317 8 hasn't had his Day, he hasn't had any screentime properly, Tennant had his Day!!!

[@HeyJay2000]

Torchwood season 4 wasn't the reason the show stopped. The reason the show stopped was because Russell T Davies' husband had a brain tumor and Russell wanted to be there for him. His priorities were just in a more important place around that time. By the time his husband passed, people had moved on from Torchwood. Russell even said in 2012 that he does know if the BBC will want to go back to it when he is ready to properly return to TV. It is kinda annoying that people say that Torchwood: Miracle Day killed the franchise. 😅 The season wasn't even that bad, and the show never got cancelled. It just got put on hold for far too long, to the point where it would be pointless to do a season 5, where they continuewhere they left off. If it comes back then it will most likely be a reboot.

[@toadtv4389]

I think Season 5 just wasn't needed. Series 1 - Introduction to the Series, Series 2 - Massive improvement, same format, Children of Earth - Something exceptional and experimental, highlight of the series, Miracle Day - a fun little adventure after all the things that happened, epilogue of some sort. It could have more Adventures, but it's great as it is i believe

[@toadtv4389]

Also, Miracle Day is overhated, the only thing that could improve is the lenght. 10 episodes seems much

[@HeyJay2000]

@Toad TV Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Big Finish continuing the show. Cause it feels more like they continued it for the sake of continuing it, rather than them actually having a story. I wouldn't have minded a TV Movie just to wrap up the Season 4 end twist.

[@mahfuzurchowdhury2765]

Since this livestream, Eve Myles has come out saying her and John have talked and sorted it out. She also said she'd come back to Torchwood/their characters with John in a heartbeat. I do think the possibility of either of the characters coming back has shot up, at least more than it was a few days ago with all the drama.

[@spluff5]

Something I want is a very high-concept show that really addresses the horrors of outer space. The episode Adrift touches on this. Maybe something like SCP where we see what UNIT has locked up in their deepest vaults.

[@martingoldfreed2627]

I'd love for you to do a full review of Miracle Day! I thought it was fantastic and almost all the negative reviews/opinions I've seen on it have been misguided/misinterpreted it, as if they were watching a different show. It's similar in content and quality to the likes of Years and Years, yet people praise that as a masterpiece. There're even multiple examples of this in your videos. You claim here Miracle Day was so bad that it essentially killed the show - yet, throughout the show got decent viewing figures and reviews. The main issue for the show, and this's a well-known fact, was the American studio who'd invested in it wasn't interested in a second season - which is a common thing in the US regardless of the quality of the shows. Networks purposefully commission shows with the intention of cancelling them after one season even if they do well, so they can attract new viewers with fresh content to subscribe to their cable network.

[@russelltietjen4407]

I did rewatching Miracle Day during COVID and by God did it hit different

[@alexsimpkin5620]

The real best Doctor Who spin-off was the Australian K-9 series from 2009 😂😂😂

[@thefezman93]

And Dr who and eastenders crossover

[@stuff31]

do not recite the dark scriptures to whovians

[@alexsimpkin5620]

@@stuff31 K-9 (2009) is canon, and there's nothing the whovian fandom can do about it 😂😜

[@sarahglover3286]

I agree, the eras of TV are really obvious! I'm trying to work out what the current/ upcoming one is. But I'm not 100% sure, I actually think if they got Eve Myles back but having rejoined the police but still dealing with the aliens that would actually be more popular. Otherwise what would you do as the new 'Torchwood'?

[@barney9456]

Torchwood was great for the time, but it's time to move on. An Eighth Doctor series or hell a spin off coming from the Power of the Doctor revolving around Ace, featuring Tegan, characters from UNIT like Osgood and Kate, she did she wanted to recruit some of the companions, so maybe she did. You could even have an episode or two guest starring River Song or the Eighth Doctor, crossing over with his series

[@daveofyorkshire301]

Torchwood had great potential, but they spun it up into a miniseries and shut it down... It's a shame it could have run longer as an episodic show, but they wouldn't leave it alone... I don't see how you can bring them all back - they killed them all off... The first rule of a long running show is everything returns to equilibrium to just continue without to many alterations or complexities. Continuity is key and there's nowhere left to go with Torchwood now.... They're heading the same way with Dr Who too... I'm not sure there's a way back for that either, without a long decade or so delay and a full reboot.

[@britanimations2002]

Dw Mr T, I really like class to

[@MartinClifford74656]

If they were to bring Torchwood back, I wouldn’t want it to just be surrounding Torchwood Cardiff. I’d love to see a full narrative that involves several different Torchwood teams

[@qqqqqqqqqqqq121212]

I’ve always thought it’ll just take some KZbinr to do a video about Torchwood Miracle Day and people would start being kinder to it - I thought that could’ve been you 😭

[@Leonardo_Rizzo]

I really liked Miracle Day :(

[@keirjarvie6998]

Well this was unexpected. But in a good way. Even though I enjoyed Torchwood for the most part, I agree with you. At the very least, I want something NEW. A whole new Doctor Who spin off. I also hated Miracle Day too.

[@ryanhlfc]

It isn’t going to. Big Finish are just doing it

[@DigitalCrate]

But there is talks of actual TorchWood coming back.

[@ryanhlfc]

@@DigitalCrate first of all phrasing it like that is really disrespectful to Big Finish, secondly why would RTD green light new big Finish torchwood series only to do the exact same thing on TV?

[@DigitalCrate]

@@ryanhlfc Big finish isn’t as known as the live action tv show. Most people I talk to have no idea what big finish is.

[@ryanhlfc]

@@DigitalCrate good for them

[@masterkyoogway3565]

Yeah, I want torchwood to stay with big finish, mainly because I've put so much money into series 5&6 and what will be 7, and I don't want them to be made non-canonnical.

[@chaserseven2886]

wait why would you buy a series just because its canon?

[@masterkyoogway3565]

@@chaserseven2886 I like official extra content, and it would feel like a waste if it was just erased from the timeline 🤷‍♀️

[@tokublwhovian]

@@chaserseven2886 there are people called completionists (people who have to own everything from a franchise or series)

[@theninjamaster67]

Torchwood was boring no need for a continuation they should make an 8th doctor spinoff.

[@marionbaggins]

Hear Hear!!! Well, Spoken Bruce!!!

[@TomCee53]

So, you kind of liked “Class”, huh?

[@lildramatic4760]

Disappointed in barrowman. I loved him, but he always was a bit.... big headed anyway, and I always suspected something was up w//eve. I hope that now you couldn't kill Ianto. story wise I wasn't as against it but Steven was well meaningful without Jack having lost him, imo.

[@casualcraftman1599]

It would be hilarious to have a story in Doctor Who canon where the sex gas is brought back and it is the inspiration for this Book: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZuknKOip7-Wn5I

[@dxctr_master]

I’d LOVE it to come back, the organisation within the main show and possibly a spin off show with a completely new cast and new location, no ties to the original character wise, but the rebellious organisation against the government kicking alien arse lol

[@taker68]

I found Torchwood series 3 COE too bleak and put the government put down first and sci-fi second. Plus killing off the TW team took me out of it. No Barrowman might be the big problem for returning the show, I'm sure RTD wants something new as a spin off. Sorry, Class was nothing special, would be nice to have a conclusion.

[@AlmightyCRJ]

'You couldn't have Kate Stewart doing adult stuff' Osgood, no. Kate is, however, a canon immigrant. She's an external IP - could the BBC even stop that?

[@stephenreed2093]

Personally, I think spin offs should still aim for the same target audience. I don't like the idea of a family show primarily aimed at kids having a spin off with swearing, gory violence and gratuitous sex. I realise some kids will find ways to watch shows like that anyway, but I see no need for Doctor Who to be directly linked to them. I prefer tonal consistency.

[@thevacuumofcomments2946]

Brought up this topic on my channel as well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4XIq2ujqJ2YaMk&lc=UgxiTBGZQDIavWrcsyx4AaABAg I imagine your thoughts are more influenced by having seen Miracle Day- haven't gotten around to that one yet

[@MrTARDIS]

I saw you were posting a video and I was like "Dammit, I hope Vacuum of Comments doesn't think I'm copying him", aha.

[@thevacuumofcomments2946]

@@MrTARDIS Haha, most of my takes are just regurgitating smarter people than me anyways! Seeing a smarter person repeating me for a change would be neat

[@Tymbus]

Torchwood never really appealed to me. The show took a long time to find an identity. Also it grew out of Doctor Who as it was but I think/hope the new RTD era will spawn new characters, ideas and situations to spin off from. That said, I think Chibbers' idea of a group of former companions teaming up in a self help group might make a good basis for a new show.

[@ormoffat]

Terf Island made me laugh so hard and so sad bc it is so unfortunately true.

[@revdrjon]

BRING BACK SUZIE COSTELLO AGAIN AGAIN!!! ;}P>

[@paulkelly1726]

I would like to see a ace spin off

[@derekbryant3799]

I think the different who universe spin offs is a good idea. I would like to see the odd Dalek episode seeing them in one off stories, similar to the 60s TV 21 comic that had them in their own adventures.

[@dhm74]

Oh thank god. You were joking! 😂

[@ANGEL_BOB_YT]

You liked class I thought it was terrible

[@mariaantoniou1693]

I thought Class was meh...

[@Jedi_Spartan]

4:24 Well... he still ran like "a penguin with its a*** on fire."

[@richardgale4827]

U.N.I.T. - it's that simple.

[@hagridmary]

1:35 His on-set etiquette has been public knowledge since time of filming. And he has apologised, multiple times.

[@tokublwhovian]

But, he kept doing his antics after each apology 🤷🏻‍♂️ so he clearly didn’t mean the words: “I’m sorry for… it won’t happen again”.

[@hagridmary]

@@tokublwhovian Since being 'cancelled' last year, he has apologised multiple times. And it's highly unlikely he's been keeping up with his antics since then.

[@qwellen7521]

Honestly, I think while TORCHWOOD shouldn't return i think a successor could easily fill its place; Call it THE ARCHIVE. Early torchwood is really rough but a more focused procedural about dealing the darker implications of the DW universe still has tonnes of potential; in in this decade of prestige Televison i think some subject matter could be handled better and the pacing tightened up.

[@peterd788]

It has had its day. I can rewatch Children of Earth but as much as I try I can’t rewatch the rest. Some things have simply had their day.

[@pablobratcat]

Given that the organisation Torchwood started In Victorian times there is plenty of historicals in there.

[@andrewcollin1978]

Would it be feasible to have a spin-off show based (however loosely) on the Lonely Assassins game? Not quite sure how it would work but it feels, to me at least, like it would be a good fit.

[@lildramatic4760]

Season four? What season four?

[@tokublwhovian]

I can’t tell whether this is sarcasm or not. So I’ll just put, Miracle Day (the american continuation)

[@VuddyProductions]

you could fit jack in by having the face of boe fall through the rift. maybe then as a series arc torchwood needs to figure out how to return him to his home.

[@paulflint6254]

A UNIT based show is needed now, it could be for adults, like Torchwood was.

[@chaserseven2886]

torchwood was excellent except for the middle of series 1 the start is fine and the end is good, I think series one needed a more focus a

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

The middle? Imo, the beginning was by far the worst part of series 1. Day One and cyberwoman (eps 2 and 4) are the worst two episodes of the show.

[@chaserseven2886]

@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 no they not, most people who complain about these two episodes are just Prudy leftists

[@tokublwhovian]

@@chaserseven2886 “Prudy lefties” 😂 I hate to yank you from your imaginary world, but the Whoniverse is pretty “left” (covers topics of the day, includes minorities, teaches viewers about good and wrong etc.)

[@chaserseven2886]

@@tokublwhovian has nothing to do with that, I do care how much politics there is in the show as a matter of fact you can have every character have contradicting politics ya want, I'm jut saying that the only ones who complained about those two episodes were probably very prude leftists

[@ms.antithesis]

what john barrowman did wasn't right. But if he'd given a sincere and understanding apology I feel the hate a lot of the community have for him wouldn't have materialised. people would have still been angry but John had like 15 years to go "wait was that wrong of me to do??" and maybe appologise to the people he'd made uncomfortable in the workplace. the problem is that he just... Didn't, and when called out he was just like "nah fuck you i did nothing wrong".. and that's partially the fault of all the people that hadn't called him out on it in the past (including the majority of the cast and crew with the power to do so unfortunately) who made john feel like his actions where in any way acceptable. Overall what barrowman did is not only a tale of how someone did something fucked up, but a tale of how a corrupt industry still allows those people to thrive despite countless examples of horrid behaviour.

[@chaserseven2886]

wait captain jack was in doctor who and he swore in that series and was quite violent so why cant other characters from doctor who cant but he could?i understand him being flirty in doctor who but the swearing? weird argument

[@marionbaggins]

Rose swore in the 2nd episode of series 1. That is Strange!!!!

[@blucale8085]

I want the Lovecraftian horror of the early original series but without the 'zany' Doctors we seem to get these days...

[@mayotango1317]

What lovecraftian horror? The pure historicals?

[@blucale8085]

@@mayotango1317 You need to watch Horror at Fangrock, Talons of Weng Chiang, Seeds of Doom, Planet of Evil etc.

[@mayotango1317]

@@blucale8085 Those are Hammer horror copies. The real lovecraftian horror is the Satan episode in Series 2 or the living Star in Series 7.

[@ollyreece4208]

Yeah I wasn't a massive fan of how Torchwood originally was setup. When I think of a secret alien cover up team beyond the government who essentially try to keep the population in ignorance of aliens, I think of a politically charged thriller series with all kinds of dodgy characters and actions from the main cast. The battle between people eventually finding out and having existential crises as mentioned in Children of Earth when suicides went up as people accepted aliens, and still covering up the activity, and the balance between do we keep humans in ignorance or do we let them take their natural paths and let them naturally find out. And how it creates a culture of cover ups, institutional lying and the effect it has on the Torchwood members and the wider public. The accountability of Torchwood's private above everything nature and how a publicly funded/known body like UNIT relate to Torchwood, private vs public bureaucracy and how things sometimes don't go to plan leading to scandals or breaches in the cover ups.... Instead we got Who lite for a couple of series with full on incompetent characters (Who Jack is way better than Torchwood Jack for me) with no sense that Torchwood is a secret organisation with any accountability or relationship with any other organisation. Children of Earth merely touched on the suicides angle which should have underpinned the entire show. And then a very condescending lecture of 'this is what mature adult stuff is like Doctor Who fans' in reference to the sexually natured tidbits they put on. Rather than treating the audience like actual humans and letting the 'mature' nature of Torchwood be all that politically charged detail I mentioned, and how Jack's sexuality can be weaved in to the story. Then Children of Earth happened and it's like 'why didn't you do this from the start?'. Miracle day is not in my head canon. Adrift for me was the closest thing Torchwood ever got to what I think it should have been. Lies, cover ups to stop people from seeing an ungodly horrifying truth that will send anyone mad. With a focus on whether they should have kept people (aka the mum in this context) in ignorance or did they do the right thing by giving her admittedly again, ungodly incomprehensibly never ending traumatic inducing closure... If they do bring it back or do something else similar to Torchwood, I'd want it along these lines at the very least.

[@chaserseven2886]

your torchwood sucks

[@tokublwhovian]

Isn’t that just X-Files and Men in Black?

[@ollyreece4208]

@@tokublwhovian It's similar, I'd just love to see it in a Doctor Who context.... Especially as you can actually include the Doctor into somehow where he has to be a voice of reason for amicable relations and how he's got deep connections to both UNIT and Torchwood. Especially for a 21st century, the lying etc and how it's now so public and blatant, it would fit right into the 2020s for me.

[@lasseehrenreich5502]

He wasn't a pinguin has to be the most funny thing I've ever heard. And for you sad to live on Turf Island you could always do the logically thing and convert to Danish.

[@booradley8895]

To be fair Capaldi's doctor did run like a penguin with its arse on fire.

[@lasseehrenreich5502]

@@booradley8895 you are probably right about that

[@tokublwhovian]

@@booradley8895 😂 love that line from Bill

[@NeroLeMorte]

Torchwood revival would be lit.

[@richardgale4827]

I'm happy to bring the kerosene.

[@tokublwhovian]

Would it work now? I think it would get lost in the hole of similar shows and various media.

[@CalzaRage]

its not torchwood without john barrowman.

[@tokublwhovian]

You have seen Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, yes? Torchwood is about the group/institution, not only Jack. It can work without him, see Big Finish (I don’t listen to them tho)

[@tokublwhovian]

There’s also episodes of SJA where Sarah Jane has a few lines then buggers off or has a cameo.

[@CalzaRage]

@@tokublwhovian i watch torchwood because jack is in it, for me it wont be the same

[@tokublwhovian]

@@CalzaRage you’d be able to cope, it’s only a TV show

[@CalzaRage]

@@tokublwhovian Ofc, if it’s not for me I just won’t watch it :)

[@tomgarb6302]

I actually really liked series 1 2 and 4. I always thought children of earth was a bit pants

[@tokublwhovian]

You do you. But I feel like people who don’t like Children of Earth, is because they don’t want to face reality.

[@tomgarb6302]

@@tokublwhovian interesting. Maybe you could be right. Cheers