Why unlimited vacation is a TERRIBLE benefit

Why unlimited vacation is a TERRIBLE benefit. Think unlimited vacation is a great policy? In this video I'm going to discuss why I feel this benefit is awful for the average working person.
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[@aaronhorowitz6942]

- it's your fault, you're taking too much vacation! - then don't advertise me an unlimited vacation! Cause I'm going to use it..

[@TheWatchernator]

no you're not going to use it, because (enter Vince McMahon) YOU'RRRRRRRRRRRE FFFFFIIIIIIIIIRRRRRED!!!.

[@starstencahl8985]

@@TheWatchernator I'd rather get fired and find a better company than work for a company that works like this tbh

[@egProductionsMO]

@@TheWatchernator ohhhh the WWE in the 90s...taking me back to my childhood lol

[@joshua2524]

Peer pressure is very strong with these policies. In short, unlimited pto = no pto.

[@myleenjan]

That's not true. I have unlimited, and we don't think of our colleagues that way. It really depends on the work culture at the company. We value work/life balance and mental health, so everyone loves it!

[@AndroidCyclist]

Personally I encourage people to take vacation and not overwork. I have seen people abuse this. I had a coworker literally take half the summer off and leave his coworkers with the extra work.

[@tohespidhire3808]

Well, perhaps it is better to think of unlimited PTO as giving you the freedom to track your own vacation days, whilst constraining yourself to a reasonable amount, each year. So a new recruit should aim for two weeks per year, perhaps three after being there a few years. In other words, instead of the manager or accountant chasing after people to report their days off, each employee is expected to be responsible for themselves and self-manage. Technically, this encourages the employees, as a group, to conform themselves in this manner, otherwise abuse will fail to uphold one's portion of the work load. Also note that for the employees that are "burdened" with the more troublesome tasks (i.e., the ongoing customer issue, the problematic troubleshooting case, the particularly detailed report, etc.) will, through sheer stress, need a day to recuperate. They will state how bad they feel, that they are taking a day, and the others will agree with their taking a day.

[@myleenjan]

@@tohespidhire3808 Yes, exactly. More freedom AT work. Companies show their respect and appreciation of employees to be responsible enough to not abuse vacation or work from home. Those are very good things!

[@benjamincrew1949]

@@myleenjan Last I checked, a lack of autonomy is the number one reason people hate their jobs, and I absolutely agree. If you want workers that act like adults, treat them like adults.

[@marshallguy301]

I have NEVER understood people who say they are too "busy" or too ashamed to request PTO off. If I have it, I use it. Period. Literally zero Fs or guilt given. Is it a boomer thing to feel compelled to work 24/7?

[@jreese46]

To some extent, yes. A lot of the older generation were taught, and taught their kids, that work ethic means always being available, not calling out unless in the hospital, etc. Employers, naturally, took complete advantage of it. Granted, we have more than our fair share of lazy, entitled people, collecting checks for doing nothing, but at the same time, we have a lot of people who have simply learned by watching their parents and grandparents give it all and get screwed over. When employers complain "nobody wants to work anymore," what they really mean, even if they don't realize it, is "nobody wants to let us work them through every important event in their lives and then lay them off before they can retire."

[@kaitlyng.473]

Same. If you work hard when you are at work, and give no one a reason to question your work ethic, I have never experienced someone giving me a hard time for taking time off. If anything, people are happy you're taking some time off. Most places I have worked push for people to take the time they have.

[@egProductionsMO]

100% with you there; take that time off. You've earned it, it's yours to use. If anyone has issue with that, that's their problem, not yours. When I had unlimited PTO, never once felt guilty using it and never once made myself available when I was off. If I'm off on a day or week that I specifically set up to be away from work, then I am going to be away from work. And even at places where I accrue PTO, I use all of it, I don't let it roll over to the next year unless I have a specific purpose for it (like a big trip or a planned surgery that needs recovery time.) Use that PTO because your job isn't what defines you and shouldn't be your primary focus 100% of the time.

[@ryangoff4813]

It’s about weak people who can’t stand up for themselves and always try to please their slave master.

[@lindseyy320]

I tend to agree, but it's not only peer pressure. Depending on your job, sometimes taking a week vacation just means a 60-70 hour week the week you get back, to finish all the work. No real way around that sometimes, so those people are prone to just not take vacation.

[@Caldera510]

I've found that taking PTO at all is hell in the delirious American management style of constantly keeping people busy.

[@kimcham9949]

Yeah. And, then you're treated to talk about 'concerns of mental health' everywhere you turn. Well, it's hardly a wonder.

[@glassmuxxic]

This is why I don’t work for American companies anymore. Outside of top tier technology companies, most I’ve worked for or with have had a bizarre combination of presentee culture and vertical hierarchy that seems to only exist to justify having managers of managers, mediocre productivity and burning out employees - all whilst burning money on mental health and D&I training.

[@jfast8256]

In America, we literally force people to stand up 8-10 hours a day for jobs that really should be seated. Visit a grocery store in the UK, then come visit one in the USA. Americans should always be busy, no exceptions.

[@drunkenmoon289]

@@jfast8256 Americans should always look busy, no exceptions. fixed for you

[@James-li8cm]

PTO is not intended to be "banked"... Many places only allow a certain amount of PTO to be rolled over, or none... The biggest problem I have with unlimited PTO is the psychological part...

[@voidtalongaming4637]

The biggest flaw with unlimited PTO systems is they support manager paranoia, the office managers I've had often expect more than is possible with the team they have (lack of proper training / lack of career encouraging wage / lack of career path) and don't attract the talent they need for the office they have so those who *are* good enough burnout from doing too much and not getting enough which turns into dissatisfaction and well; a turnover rate of 6-8 months across all baseline positions (administrators, assistants, ect)

[@bridgetmakesmovies]

Yeah, not sure where he’s going with all this banked PTO business. I don’t know of anyone who can do that anymore except those with union contracts. And we all know how rare those jobs are these days.

[@RandomFandomDragon]

@@bridgetmakesmovies - my company was bought out a couple years ago, and our PTO model, which was generous but not bankable, switched to vacation and sick. Vacation cannot be be banked, but sick time can be banked up to 15 days. I'd rather have it all as PTO that I can use as I needed, b/c it felt like I lost a third of my vacation time.

[@bridgetmakesmovies]

Nobody Knows many areas of the country are passing laws for mandatory sick time. That might be part of it.

[@niggaflies]

@@bridgetmakesmovies I have worked in corporate America all my life and I know plenty of people who banked weeks of time.

[@schreds8882]

Having worked in consulting where billable hours rule, time off of any sort eats into that. The people with the most billable hours get promoted. So having set vacation or unlimited vacation didn't matter; people just didn't take time off unless they really needed it. Or, they'd take a vacation but bring their computers with them and still work 12 hour days. The point is that in the U.S. time off is seen as being lazy. If you are really dedicated to your work then you'll be available 24x7 for your employer. It's a culture of abuse that has been built up over decades and employees buy into it or are suckered into it. Either way, by the time you're 50, you're exhausted and burned out. This is fine with your employer because then the old people are laid off and replaced with cheaper newbies and the cycle starts again. This is why I advise young people looking for a career to become a plumber. You can't be outsourced to a cheaper person in another country and on a Sunday afternoon, people will pay insane amounts of money to get their toilet fixed.

[@bridgetmakesmovies]

Yes, plumbers and pipe fitters do very well! As do plenty of other trades in labor unions.

[@myleenjan]

I used to work at a Big 4 accounting firm, and it is exactly how you put it. I suffered a lot of mental anguish and workplace stress. Now I'm at a place where I have unlimited vacation and can plan to take longer trips overseas. I'm much happier now! True that it depends on your relationship with your manager. But if you're in a good place, your manager should understand the work/life balance well.

[@kimcham9949]

👍🏾 "in the U.S. time off is seen as being lazy". And, you see Americans go to other countries that don't live like this and praise the people there for being so 'unhurried, unstressed and laid-back'. "It's great. They live such a 'relaxed' lifestyle". But, these same Americans will get back home and refer to other Americans that act like that, as "lazy bums with no ambition" and "worthless do-nothings". Such hypocrites.

[@myleenjan]

@@kimcham9949 You are so spot on! I think many of my North American friends who hear about "unlimited vacation" don't understand something good when it is presented to them. Finally we are catching up to Europeans! Many even became burnt out during the pandemic, so a lot of people leave their stressful jobs. It is simply not worth killing yourself over your job. It happened to me that way.

[@schreds8882]

@@myleenjan Agreed. This is why I left consulting. One of these days, I hope, the U.S. will see the grace of the EU way. No one I work with says that Europeans are lazy but the same approach in the U.S. will get you on the layoff list. There are companies and industries that have a reasoned approach to work but they are not the norm in the U.S.

[@SpynCycle57]

I'm retired now, and after a 40 year career, working for multiple companies, I've seen the opposite. At every employer, people were harassed because they accumulated too much vacation time. They were told "Take PTO by the end of the year! That's not a request!" When someone planned time off, they were rarely given pushback, and I never knew of anyone who's job was at risk due to taking PTO that they had earned.

[@JOSECCB10]

Weird, I'm not american but I see the same in my country actually I accumulated about 40 vacation days and I wasn't the only one so there were many of my coworkers in similar situation and as you said the employer forced us to take those PTOs xD

[@sharazar]

That is because the earned it and it was on the books. Unlimited mean if you do not take it, you just do not get it. Company will save alot of money

[@bperez8656]

Unlimited puts pressure on the employe to feel guilted for taking too much

[@machetekid07]

I worked at a company where after 1.5 years you’d get unlimited vacation and in our yearly retreat our CEO was pleased to announce that among those who had unlimited vacation, they only took the equivalent to 1 vacation day per month. That’s when I knew that this “benefit” was something you weren’t truly meant to use

[@mcuserton]

That CEO made a mistake by even bringing it up. Of course it's there to reduce the amount of time people take off, but the CEO undermined the marketing gimmick by expressing his/her satisfaction of the results.

[@justinwhite2725]

1 day a month is the average amount that a full time employee calls in sick for health or family emergencies.

[@mcuserton]

@@justinwhite2725 that's good to know and it supports the notion that unlimited vacation is closer to no vacation.

[@Jessehermansonphotography]

That was their choice though

[@julielevesque2668]

Too good to be true...no thanks.

[@gregd6611]

One thing you didn't mention was that while it's called "unlimited vacation" it's actually still limited. My previous employer switched over to that, and was given a soft 'warning' that there is a "cap" at 4 weeks then it goes to "management approval".

[@MarkFinance]

Which is wild because you got to assume the first 4 weeks needed managerial approval also.... What a racket

[@gregd6611]

@@MarkFinance Yep, it was a riot. They obviously had to approve any request, I don't know if they had some sort of metric to approve requests quicker as long as the business wasn't impacted and enough time was given. But everything was totaled together to hit that 4 weeks. So if it was a day here and there, those would add up. It wasn't like 4 weeks consecutive or anything. Perhaps the funniest thing of all is that in their advertisement of the policy change, an "example" of unlimited vacation was having every Friday off for an entire year. That obviously is way above 4 weeks worth, so loved the mixed messaging on selling this BS of a policy.

[@M-hc9xm]

I think unlimited time off also puts too much power in the hands of each individual manager. All they have to do is say ... That week you want isn't going to work for the workload I'm expecting. At least with a defined amount, managers have some pressure to let you take it if you tried to plan appropriately.

[@myleenjan]

Yes, true, but that means you don't work for a good workplace if they don't value work/life balance and stress/mental issues. A good company culture is critical in being a success with unlimited vacation.

[@bige3969]

My employer offers this. In reality, many jobs require people to be available. So the managers have lots of control, especially if you are a poor performer.

[@myleenjan]

@@bige3969 But even if you didn't have unlimited vacation, one still needs to get managerial approval, no?

[@bige3969]

Managers approve vacation. It's harder to hold managers accountable for work/life balance if there are vacation metrics. If there was a payout for unused days, that is beneficial for workers. Even in use it or lose it, the vacation time is budgeted and wasted. The manager has an incentive to get staff time off.

[@myleenjan]

@@bige3969 However, neither I or my coworkers have the desire or inclination to count other people's vacation days. It never really becomes a problem.

[@chrislenz6634]

We were asked how we felt about unlimited vacation at my company. We all said it was a bad idea for 2 reasons, 1 we would feel guilty for every day we took, and 2, it was free reign for the company to have us work on our vacations, as they don't have to give the days back if we work. So we kept our current policy.

[@oldmanfresh]

I understand both sides..I’m going into a new situation with this policy. (Offered today) My prospective boss basically said “I take my time and I expect you to take yours.” So...We’ll see how it goes. Pay is very good. Hopefully it works out.

[@alexvig2369]

How did it go? It's been 8 months since your post.

[@ziyandambobo8424]

How did it go?

[@marcellofunhouse1234]

@@alexvig23692 years now

[@waleedkhalid7486]

One thing to mention is that the unlimited pto usually comes with the caveat that your supervisor or boss can deny it. If you tell them ‘hey I’m taking a week off’ they can say ‘mmmm no, things are busy right now so we need everyone’. This can be abused to essentially never allow any time off, although more commonly the boss just says ‘ok take 3-4 days and come back’ as a compromise. The fact of the matter is that we in the US have no culture of taking a break. We aren’t as bad as Japan, but we pride ourselves in our lack of vacations and see those who take their days in a negative light because now thier work is our work. Maybe it would be fine if there was a system that everyone in a team would take a break at the same time? This has its own issues, but maybe this can be a start for a discussion?

[@destructhit]

This man tells us all the secrets but rather than Joshua, in a polite way 🤣

[@ML-yn9yu]

I mean, sometimes you need the harsh truth. I frankly love Josh's style more.

[@destructhit]

I love both

[@samswift102]

Joshua who?

[@delphaneuxlacroix]

@@samswift102 This guy: kzbin.info

[@samswift102]

@@delphaneuxlacroix Thanks!

[@May-qb3vx]

I really just want enough PTO to actually get to live my life. I don’t want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere in the US where there practically nothing going on for the rest of my life. That prospect is paralyzing in the job hunt. I want the European style of work/life balance where you work to live, not live to work. Good amount of PTO, maternity and paternity leave, and not being punished for not looking at work stuff when I’m not at work. That’s what I want and I’m getting incredibly pessimistic about finding that in the US.

[@kimcham9949]

Exactly!

[@mejdlocraftci]

A bit hypocritical from me to say because I myself dont ike the idea of moving to different countries but it sounds like moving would be beneficial to you. What you are describing is fundamental to your mental well being and the decision you make/dont make can affect your entire life incredibly

[@MNRHayes1]

Vote according this because two people in Democratic Party who want bring this lifestyle to states (briene and aoc).

[@docholliday4546]

@@MNRHayes1 that's bullshit.. I will NEVER live to work but be the best employee.. I come I do my 8 hrs a day and go home... I don't take about work when I leave with my family.. I take time off whether it's pto or unpto when Evey my wife is off with her job... Don't like it, fire me... I can always find another job in my field... I'm the best in my business... It's like I tell ppl I can work for you or your competition which ever you chose.. I make a very good salary but I only work 6 hrs a day at most, but I get done what most do in 12...

[@instanthellmurderer]

💯💯💯

[@AhmedMohamed-qm4wd]

Yeah Josh talks about this concept as well. It really does sound terrible.

[@myleenjan]

It's not! Unlimited PTO is GREAT, and most of the comments are people secretly jealous of it. LOL

[@AhmedMohamed-qm4wd]

@@myleenjan On paper it does sound great but in practice, as explained in the video, the cons out way the pros in my opinion.

[@myleenjan]

@@AhmedMohamed-qm4wd There really aren't any cons. He's only talking about senior people who have worked decades and have saved vacation time for years which hardly happens anymore anyway. You would like it if you have family abroad and want to spend a longer time somewhere.

[@ajbXYZcool]

@@myleenjan Out of the 3 reasons why he says it's not great, 2 are geared for people who would lose that benefit in their current company, so I would almost agree with you, but the third point is where it loses its luster, where the company could have sprung out of the ground with this benefit and it would still be poor. If the company decides to downsize, who do you think they'd go after first? Unless they were some sort of amazing Rockstar, probably the person abusing their unlimited vacation. It's a trap. I'm considering that if I'm at an interview for a job with unlimited ot, I'd ask them how they would expect me to make use of that benefit, and see what the TRUE vacation guidelines are.

[@myleenjan]

@@ajbXYZcool You're assuming that people judge their workers according to how much vacation they take and assume that the more vacation, the more they are "considered lazy". Not true in my company and many who have it. Leadership follows the same rules and encourages vacation to help people not get burnt out, and it works! I just left a high-stress big 4 accounting firm, and was thoroughly exhausted during 12-16 hour days, so I had to leave for health reasons. I am now at an unlimited vacation company and feel so much more energized because I can take the time I need to get personal stuff done. I know many who would trade that for $10000 more in their paycheck.

[@divinusnobilite]

As a data scientist at large corporation, we saw a 27% reduction in total vacation time taken when we moved to 'Unlimited' vacation. No set time means no ownership over anytime.

[@bigjuicefolife]

I just accepted a role that has unlimited PTO and declined a role that had 25 days vacation time plus 7 days of sick time. Think I shot myself in the foot?

[@rayzerot]

@@bigjuicefolife Yes. I'm sorry to say, but yes.

[@jaydee9968]

@@bigjuicefolife I'd have to say "yes."

[@wes9451]

@@bigjuicefolife Depends make sure you're taking at least 33+ days a year.

[@karinalumen9722]

Also means they dont pay you for any vacation

[@stanfordblack.156]

In my state you are legally entitled to be paid out your accrued vacation when you leave the company regardless of if you were terminated voluntarily or involuntarily. I have heard stories of companies offering unlimited PTO as a loophole to be able to avoid paying out employees who leave the company.

[@4040smokey]

That's exactly why it is done.

[@YourFunkiness]

If I have unlimited vacation, and I quit, doesn't that mean I get unlimited money? ;-)

[@Kaboomboo]

That seems like the main reason why they'd do it. I mean who's really going to be using that unlimited PTO to take month long vacations three times a year?

[@jtl9283]

I went from having accrued PTO to unlimited PTO. There are pros and cons for sure. The biggest pro is I don't have to wait until I have enough PTO built up to take time off. The biggest issue is that sometimes it can take awhile to get my PTO approved. I've never had trouble getting my PTO approved this year but when it comes to take time off to interview for jobs, it's very unreliable. Not to mention that a few years ago, I've had my boss hold it against me saying that I need more sales if I wanted 2 days off despite trying. When you have accrued PTO, you use what you have and get paid out for what you don't use the next year.

[@kiki11974]

Interesting perspectives and thanks for posting this video. Personally I’ve experienced both sides. Back in 2016 when I was laid off after 20 years; I had a full month of vacation on the books which was paid out to me - in cash. Now that I’m at a new company with unlimited vacation - I love having the benefit. That said, I’m at a point in my career where I feel like I deserve no less than 6 weeks of PTO - regardless of being a tenured employee or not. 😃

[@ML-yn9yu]

Damn, talk about knowing your worth.

[@kiki11974]

@@ML-yn9yu I think if you’d asked most people who’ve been in their careers for about 20+ years that they would agree. That said, you are spot on, I know my worth and work life balance and benefits becomes increasingly relevant when I consider which companies I’d work for

[@voidtalongaming4637]

In the EU I believe 4 Weeks of Vacation is mandated by law; something I highly think America would benefit from.

[@ML-yn9yu]

@@kiki11974 100%, agree. it defiantly needs to be placed in more consideration.

[@SuprousOxide]

Always worked at companies where vacation was use it or lose it. No banking vacations past the end of the year (occasionally they made exceptions and let use carry over a few days, but not past March). And no payouts for unused vacation when you leave.

[@Maki-00]

I had unlimited PTO and I loved it! Everyone took off when they needed and there were no problems. Whether management or otherwise, we all used the time fairly. No one went crazy and took off every other week We had a large company and no one was burdened when one or two people were gone. Work isn’t so bad if you get a break once in a while!

[@jenniferh189]

sounds like you worked for a fantastic company!

[@Maki-00]

@@jenniferh189 It was! Besides unlimited PTO, we had catered breakfast and lunch once a week. We had a kitchen full of snacks, free coffee, and cold brew on tap. It was the rare occasion that I truly loved my job, but unfortunately, there were layoffs because of COVID. 😢

[@jenniferh189]

@@Maki-00 aw so sorry! I also lost my job due to Covid and replaced it with a job I hated. Looking around with optimism. Good luck!

[@Maki-00]

@@jenniferh189 I went to a crappy job after that and I hope this new one works out better. Good luck to you too!

[@OudPlayerHBY]

Unlimited vacation = No Vacation. For an employer point of view it’s kind of a smart idea.

[@myleenjan]

Not true. See all my replies above. My manager encourages us to vacate when we need to! I asked for 1 day off to move to another place and she suggested 3 to help relieve stress! That's what unlimited vacation really looks like!!

[@theelite1x721987]

@@myleenjan you are the exception, not the rule. My last company had certain mid and upper positions with this perk. It was unlimited but you couldn't just take it whenever. You needed prior approval and 1 week notice. Often days or weeks would get denied due to work load. Entire months blacked out because "work load". End result is few vacations were taken despite "unlimited vacation". It's a joke. Be lucky you have the company you do. I can assure you most are NOT like that

[@myleenjan]

@@theelite1x721987 I would say that is completely unfair if it is only given to upper management! Unlimited vacation is available to every single employee in my company. If it wasn't, THEN I can see your point. Otherwise, unlimited is fantastic!

[@theelite1x721987]

@@myleenjan it was warehouse work. Can't meet fulfillment quotas when all employees have access to unlimited vacation. Thanks to everyone online ordering last year those of us in fulfillment centers got crammed together like sardines working unlimited overtime to process all the orders. Entire months in early pandemic were blacked out for vacation. We were too busy. Y'all really needed your online orders of non-essential stuff apparently...

[@elmudd06]

Friend of mine worked at a non-profit who did leave this way and it's as he says--there were certain people who never came in and the rest were stuck doing their work AND couldn't take time off because they were too busy making up the work. This became ingrained in the culture and management came to expect it and accept it--certain people couldn't be counted on (but got to stay employed!) and the rest were expected to carry the load.

[@myleenjan]

You make a fair point, but it's not enough to say that unlimited vacation is bad. I have it where I work, but what it states in our benefits is that taking extensive vacation can affect your performance review. So, yes, technically, you can take a 4 month vacation and depend on others to do your work while away, but you better believe it will affect your performance for the year negatively! It's not that there are no consequences. It is just that they stopped counting your days off so you can take whatever time you need to rest, relax or recharge. How could that ever be a bad thing?

[@hyhhy]

@@myleenjan The consequences that you mention sound potentially way more arbitrary than in a system which is based on counting objective things like days off.

[@myleenjan]

@@hyhhy Consequences matter on whether you count the days or not. Both cases you still need someone to approve your time off. You have the freedom to take off as many days as needed.

[@jreese46]

This is how it goes, because as long as you're giving, someone else will be there to take.

[@myleenjan]

@@jreese46 I don't know if you're American, but it seems that any social benefit is seen as "abuse", but many places outside the U.S. (like Europe) see it as a good thing to have. We are all supposed to take advantage of unlimited vacation to take care of personal business, rest and recharge.

[@undamned]

It's really deceptive to promise "unlimited" vacation while secretly judging people when they use it. Tell me my limits and don't judge me if I'm within them.

[@ButterflyBree]

You raise some excellent points about unlimited vacation time not being what it seems. Most companies are constantly looking for cost savings, especially for employee benefits. This is one of the reasons many entry to mid level government jobs aren't protected anymore by the civil service code. As a health educator, I take my vacation time regularly. I don't take anything work related with me, as well as, I try my best to reach out to patients before I leave the office. I wish American companies saw the value in having at least 6 weeks of paid vacation. People are more productive when they can utilize their vacation, as well as, take a day or two for their mental health. #TeamNoSleep and working without time off isn't healthy and it doesn't lead to more productive outcomes.

[@unknownyoutuber2007]

If I wanted unlimited vacation, I'd be unemployed.

[@myleenjan]

You obviously don't get what unlimited vacation is and the goal of it. Companies do this to prevent burnout.

[@unknownyoutuber2007]

@@myleenjan Hahaha "burn out"? Is that what people call it these days? Man you people are pathetic. Awe a little bit of work is too exhausting for you? Got a little bit of stress? :( Let me count the number of ways I give a fuck. It's entitlement. Pathetic, sad entitlement. Everyone these days wants to be rewarded with none of the efforts that come with it. You want "unlimited vacation"? Then quit your damn job. You're there to work. Not be paid to sit at home.

[@webserververse5749]

@@unknownyoutuber2007 I was working 7, 12 hour shifts (There were days I worked 18 hrs a day) for 6 months straight and lot of people thought I was insane and "Burn-out" was going to hit me hard. I remember days walking into work like a zombie and just working based of muscle memory alone. I don't know what burn-out actually means per everyone else. But I can agree having an employee working as I did is not something a company will want to be the norm. I was putting in good work but if everyone was doing what I was, things would quickly fall into chaos.

[@myleenjan]

@@unknownyoutuber2007 Uh no. I used to work 12-16 hour days at a Big 4 firm and nearly died of exhaustion because of it. So, to answer your question NO I am not afraid of "a little work". I'd rather be happy and healthy!

[@kimcham9949]

@@myleenjan: 👍🏾 Don't worry about "Unknown KZbinr". He's the kind of person that will eventually come into the workplace with a gun. Forget him.

[@stevenvallarsa1765]

In the software development world I'm trying to break into, I've heard that this benefit isn't much of a benefit at all since you're stuck in production groups and you can't just up and leave on vacation until the project is done. And then, look at that, you're pushed into the next project and can't leave until that is done, and so on and so forth.

[@charlesbarilleaux2784]

A root cause of the perception issues, I feel, is “the work keeps coming,” and the abuse of exempt employees. I’ve heard too many senior managers view exempt employees as bottomless buckets of capacity. “10% overtime should be standard.” If I deal with my assigned duties and can take time off AWESOME. Unfortunately, any unallocated capacity is viewed as fair game to add projects-working less than 25% overtime is seen as capacity to add projects. Sort *that* out, then talk unlimited vacation.

[@le0nz]

As a software engineer I take 2 weeks each year but I always know I can get fired so I prepare according. I got lucky and got not problem getting jobs offers.

[@tomwood5896]

2 weeks! America is crazy. In the UK as a software engineer our company gives 5 weeks rising 1 day for every year of service (so if you have been here 5 years you get 6 weeks vacation). Plus 8 days statutory holidays.

[@richardjohansen5371]

The advantage of unlimited vacation is that if something comes up that *needs* to be done outside of work (family issues or life issues for example) you *always* have the time available to go deal with it.

[@myleenjan]

That's right, and I think everyone else misses this point!

[@yottlesbottles]

If they really wanted this as the outcome they would call it minimum holiday. So you'd get 3/4/5 weeks and you could take more as required.

[@sharazar]

That is called Family Medical Leave. Unlimited is not unlimited if your manager gets to say no you can not take any time right now, Bob is already taking it off

[@manny9323]

Not really. Any company worth working for will give you that flexibility. If they’re not willing to do that then chances are they weren’t gonna approve your last-minute emergency PTO request anyway. My current company’s payroll system just takes you into negative hours if you don’t have enough, and as long as you accrue those PTO hours by year end it’s not an issue.

[@riacharda]

I was about to apply for a job with this benefit. You're totally right. Thanks for the insight.

[@JS-od9dj]

Never worked for a company that would let you accrue time, so for me it’s been either a few weeks PTO that you lose at the end of the year or unlimited that you lose.

[@nicklowe_]

Been following you for a bit, keep up the good work.

[@AHeru-zt5qd]

I had "unlimited" PTO a couple of jobs back and wanted to take time for paternity leave, which the company DID NOT have, and I asked to have six weeks for my new child. Mind you, I had NEVER taken any PTO between the switch from normal to unlimited and the company STILL told me that there was a hidden policy that we were only allowed to take four weeks worth of PTO a year no matter what. I took the four weeks and spent that time welcoming my son and looking for a new job. I came back after leave and handed in my two weeks notice. They were so confused and taken aback. I went on to a job paying nearly twice my salary and haven't looked back.

[@justindadswell8610]

The only way I could see this working for the employee is where everyone has a set goal. You can take as much time off as long as you meet the goal. Or as with today's work from home culture, if you can do the job from the Bahamas then do it just make sure it is done. Show back up to work every third week to make sure you are caught up and then take the next two weeks as a working vacation. But then realistically almost every boss wants to see you at least acting busy even if all the work is done. So the above plan probably wouldn't work because the perception would still be negative even if you outperformed every single one of your coworkers.

[@katherinemahlum178]

That's That's fair point.

[@heavylogic4204]

Great video topic! 💯

[@Satchel456]

As someone who has worked at companies with both policies, I respectfully disagree. For many new employees, the biggest hurdle is knowing that you likely won't be able to take PTO for a little while if you have to accrue it - and life doesn't always allow us to wait to need time off. Also, even after working at a company for three years, I was always scared to dip into my PTO because you never knew when something bigger might pop up where you'd need more time; this forces you to be miserly with PTO. With unlimited PTO so long as you're a responsible person, there's no worry about "do I have enough PTO banked?" or "what if something else comes up afterward that I wouldn't have enough for?"

[@marykoritheasmith2411]

Luckily I have been employed for years in various positions,however it's great to keep current on corporate strategies. Thank you for that 😊

[@kate215]

My coworkers would 100000% take advantage of this. And my coworkers and I who I know wouldn’t, would absolutely be picking up all the slack. No way.

[@jennyc5100]

Thank you for explaining the downside of this!

[@atomicfirepanda]

The right way to do this is to offer unlimited vacation (maybe because the company is very small and they don't want to be bothered tracking PTO) BUT the expectation and the culture is that people take 3 or 4 weeks vacation. Establishing a strong you-first culture turns the unlimited PTO benefit into a real win.

[@RazifHazmi]

Unlimited PTO is just ridiculous. 90 days is plenty to be honest yet still make an impact at the job.

[@williamsavary1040]

90 days is 18 weeks. You know some jobs with that much vacation lol?

[@RazifHazmi]

@@williamsavary1040 it's in the video. Some companies are already offering unlimited vacation. 18 weeks is being reasonable. Lol.

[@kellyrutherford5885]

Most of the jobs I've experienced in my career have ended with me being laid off. A number of those times, after a week of earned vacation, upon my return, I was soon laid off. So, today I'm anxious about the idea of taking time off. I know there is probably no connection between the two events, but it still unsettles me!

[@michaelh5055]

I use all of my PTO every year. I have absolutely no shame in using it and no one will make me feel guilty about it. I am good at my job. But I work to live, not live to work. I also would never hold it against others to use all of their pto.... We all work to make a living.

[@s.b.2450]

My company switched to Open Time Off a few years ago. With each lay off cycle my backlog of tasks increases to cover for those who left. My team has been reduced from 18 to 3 developers. I ended up having only national holidays off in order to meet my team's goals, which are embedded into annual performance review. After 23 years, I am leaving the company to get back my family life and piece of mind. If you hear OPEN TIME OFF, run, because this is a sign of a decay and stagnation of the company.

[@brentbrown2722]

My toxic organization tried to convince us that if we worked extra, we'd get an extra day of PTO even though we already have open PTO

[@pey7777]

As long as you get your work done, the amount of time off you take shouldn't matter. If I can get my work done in 4 days and take fridays off, why not?

[@Juzamdan55]

Exactly

[@Wythaneye]

Key word "shouldn't". The problem is, the kinds of companies that offer unlimited PTO are the same kinds of companies that track your every move and micromanage you into the ground.

[@myleenjan]

@@Wythaneye Not true! Where are all these myths coming from? Mostly from people without unlimited PTO! I have it and everyone I know who has it actually LOVES it. Managerial approval happens whether you have unlimited or not. If he/she has a problem granting you vacation, you can always get external support since the WHOLE company has it. I'm someone who has unlimited vacation and can attest that it's wonderful!

[@jreese46]

Because, more often than not, you're "part of a dynamic team," which of course means one person digs while the rest lean on shovels, or take the week off.

[@munstergirl25]

Personally the risk is where you don't get your work done or you do but you know if you went off a few days, you wouldn't. This isn't because you are a slow worker but maybe just because work is busy, or understaffed, etc. Paid time off is a benefit that means I get a Pause from my contractual obligation to provide certain service to my employer. It is then his responsibility to make sure work is sort of covered in my absence. If that responsibility Falls on me to take time off, it really isn't a perk anymore

[@queenofalldamned3365]

When I am on vacation there’s ABSOLUTELY NO WAY for me to think about work. I am out end of the story! And I am doing it so for the sake of myself but also for the work and the eventual quality I put in it. I need to rest and heal from the efforts put into my job, recharge my batteries in order to keep on going when I am back on duty.

[@cberge8]

The only benefit to unlimited pto is if you ever have medical issues that requires an extended leave. Last year I went from having 5 weeks of pto/year, to an unlimited pto plan. In that year I ended up only taking 6 days of pto. Not having a set amount of time off mentally causes you to end up taking less time off. Also, after just being laid off, I had no banked pto to be paid out.

[@johnbushur6080]

I’d like to see a video or perhaps a series on the total benefits package. Outside of salary and health insurance what kinds of benefits are common and what might be considered exceptional and/or subpar. Such as stock options, bonuses, vacation etc. And any tips on evaluating and negotiating benefits other than salary.

[@dynamicdave2647]

U seem like such a nice relatable recruiter. Love your music intro

[@MyMattinthehat]

You hit on some really good points. I'd like to share some other points. Netflix is one of the pioneers with this method and utilizes it quite well. However, other places have tried to adopt the same method and failed in their implementations. Netflix believes that as long as the work gets done then one does not need to stick around aimlessly. While true, there tends to always be work that needs to be done. Sometimes these companies will incentivize their workers with bonus money to relax and take a week off. Another point, in the software development and related fields, work can be very competitive, and taking time off would be like benching yourself. Good points on probing for the work culture at places that offer this as a benefit, getting data on how often the workers actually exercise this benefit would be good to know as well.

[@user-zd7id9rx3f]

Personally as an engineer I wish managers had 52 weeks of vacation a year so I wouldn’t get tied up in meetings that impede me from getting the underlying work done.

[@icestationzebraassociates2460]

I accrue more vacation and sick time than I can use. On top of that they gave us several free personal days over the last year. I'm too busy to take more than a couple days off at a time. The pay isn't wonderful, but the benefits keep people there.

[@richardfroste4548]

I worked so long in a Refinery that I had 5 weeks of vacation a year. My job was never on the line but with some people it could be a problem. Because the company learns they can do without you. Probably not a good idea unless you have a union to stand up for you.

[@kayp9318]

I had to learn this the hard way! I left a large corporation to go to a small start up that offered up unlimited pto, free food, alcohol, etc. I thought it was a dream. Boy was I wrong. Those type of companies work you like a dog. You will work weekends, nights, etc.

[@Kaboomboo]

Really? That sucks dude. Are the tradeoffs worth it? Genuine question. some people are cool as long as they provide the food and such.

[@EyesWideOpen_B]

Is there at least overtime pay because of this?

[@mowerds33]

My old company decided to cap how much they'd pay out on leaving to 80 hours, I had over 200 hours of time off banked. I left before the policy took effect with my 200 hour payout. I wasn't going to ever manage to use that while still getting more hours, and we were too busy for me to ever use those hours.

[@TeacherKellyTag]

I worked at a company that had 6 weeks vacation (sick and vacation was rolled into one). I heard the managers were told they were unprofessional if they tried to use all their time.

[@01michellehall]

Love your channel

[@AA-db9cb]

I was in a marketing firm a while back with unlimited vacations. The company wasn't exactly doing so well but I knew one guy who took hundreds of days off in a year. He was only there like 2-3 days a week. Everyone hated him because he slowed the entire pipeline down and made pretty much just left everyone to do the work. He got fired.

[@cooprdog3793]

Employees haven't been able to carry vacation days across more than an 18 month period since the 90s. Because it's essentially an annuity... You will be forced to take it out surrender it. When was the last time you worked for someone? 2. If US workers wasted 768 million paid vacation days in a single year . How would going to unlimited PTO alienate senior employees (who don't use it at all?) 3. How is it a stigma to use vacation days... When they are unlimited? 4. If employees are forced to do all the work that appears when they are on vacation... Then your company doesn't offer vacation Everyone is my company has unlimited PTO and on Fridays in the summer we work half days..... People love the company and the benefit as judged by the survey we take every 6 months. Your points haven't been relevant since Clinton was in office.

[@kesayo]

It probably varies with the manager and the profession, but I personally do not keep track of how much PTO people take when there's unlimited PTO. If you're a high performer, you're still a high performer in my eyes even if you take 3 months off. If you're a low performer, you're still a low performer even if you take 0 time off. If you're in the middle, it doesn't tip it one way or the other because of how much time off you take. Also, I take much more time off when I have unlimited time off. I used to work for a company that let me sell back my vacation time at the end of the year and also carry over what I didn't sell or use to the next year. At that company I took almost no time off and just banked it all.

[@nlpolak]

I most recently worked for a company that was a startup and offered unlimited vacation, and I always felt weird about taking time off. I worked there almost 2.5 years and would typically only take a couple days off every few months, because I hated that when I’d come back I would take a week to catch up. My boss took tons of time off though, and said she was very rarely “off” but rather working from home. So I never knew if she was taking time off or remote working. A few weeks before I left, I suffered an injury that kept me housebound and it was actually only then I used vacation time and how sad was that that I couldn’t even say I was enjoying it because I was stuck with a broken ankle??😢

[@josevalle7133]

The best strategy when you have a lot of vacation time or even unlimited vacation is to schedule your dates at the beginning of the year. The key is to space them out and to assure you take at least 4 weeks throughout the year.

[@dannyhantx]

I'd rather have unlimited PTO than 15 days of PTO.

[@paulhornbogen980]

Sir, keep making plain english videos. I am amazed at this concept. Continue to be blunt and honest sir. Good job.

[@jaydee9968]

Absolute truth! I'm on my way out of a toxic company that has "unlimited vacation." It's a complete scam. With no records or tracking, the amount of vacation a person takes becomes nothing but a matter of perception, which we all know leads to false impressions. For the first time in a forty year career I am about to resign with zero notice -- dropping the resignation letter and walking out the door. They don't deserve anything better.

[@NotShowingOff]

The benefit isn’t the problem. It’s how management wields it.

[@wurst1284]

This seems like a policy yawning to be abused and if the boss wont let you take a year off, sue them. Would fix that nonsense up real quick.

[@eanerickson1968]

It's one of those things that can definitely come with strings attached. It just depends on how companies are willing to use it

[@karaleise]

I only want jobs with unlimited vacation. I've had that model in my last 2 jobs and the opposite is true. With unlimited vacation people actually take less time. We had to force people to take a break But for me, i love taking time WHENEVER I want because i meet and exceed expectations constantly. Exceptional workers should be allowed to take time off as needed. Give me my time now. I will make my plans for my retirement on my own. Its a great benefit!

[@myleenjan]

Halleluja, finally someone who gets it. More and more IT companies like Netflix, Instacart and GE are following Unlimited PTO.

[@traveler121]

Spot on!

[@kerriea3149]

Absolutely agree

[@shadowninja6689]

"With unlimited vacation people actually take less time. We had to force people to take a break" .... isn't that just proving some of this videos points, that it's really just a way to get people to take less time off while disguising it as a 'benefit'?

[@karaleise]

@@shadowninja6689 But the point is it is YOUR choice. As a whole the company benefits because not everyone will take their vacation but you as the individual also benefit because there isn't a cap on what you are allowed.

[@EDarien]

5:45 for the most important part of the video. Also, almost half of the entire video is just "If you've already accrued vacation as a senior employee, you lose that time. Over 5 minutes to simply say that 1 point.

[@justinwhite2725]

Yeah I'm only halfway through and waiting to see why it's a bad policy if you don't already have banked time.

[@timfritz7367]

All the points you provided are valid. I think it is also worth mentioning the only way unlimited policies can be implemented effectively is if the expectations of leadership have a work life balance mindset. The focus must be that people come first and adequate safeguards written into policy to protect them. I worked in an industry for decades where bottom line margins were all that mattered. It was the norm for mid and senior level staff to work 60-70+ hours a week. Attempting to take vacation was an act of self-annihilation as resources were not bolstered or adequate to bear the burden. I left a leadership role at a former employer after dealing with that mentality for years and formed a new company. In this venture we established a non-capped PTO policy. This wasn’t to be trendy; it was to safeguard employees from abuse. We placed a handful of additional requirements in the policy (i.e. safeguards) such as requiring employees to take a minimum of 1 week per quarter from work. We frown upon working weekends unless there is an emergency. We offer our employees other benefits to help them save for the future such as equitable phantom shares that vest over time. Banking PTO isn’t going to build someone a retirement. As long as individuals get their work done and deliverables are met, we do not care how they manage their time. If an employee has performance issues, that is handled directly. Employees will face hardships and a bevy of personal obligations throughout the course of life. We wanted to reduce that burden when something unexpected happens. Surprisingly, we have had some of the highest retention levels compared to other companies in our line of work. People take time off and have responded with alacrity for the flexibility. We hire people to help us be successful. It is our duty to ensure that we create an environment that respects family first. It's our culture and part of why our PTO policy has been successful. As with any prospect, do your research before you interview. Any benefits package can look great from the outside but from within, the culture could be rotting. Nothing offered will make it better. Cheers

[@skeliskull]

If companies wanted to give you a great vacation benefit they’d give you 4+ weeks.

[@deanrobbins8102]

The place I work for went from PTO to FTO (said vacation has "no cash value"). FTO meant you have access to ALL of your vacation for the year up front. They hired a kid this spring. One month later, he took a couple weeks to go to Hawaii. A week after he got back, he put in his two weeks notice...LMAO! Players got played and complained about it.

[@ThomaslIngenieur]

Hi mate, long time viewer & first comment, love your work. FYI I've 'inspired' myself from your thumbnail as I've made a video in French on a similar topic, and my original thumbnail had poor performance. I've credited you in the description so at least you get sth out of it, hope you don't mind. Please note that I don't use your content, only the idea of your thumbnail (my video is more a reaction video to a French news video, and I tackle other points you don't in your video). Feel free to reach out if you want to speak about it 🙃 In any case, best with your work on KZbin, love your videos !

[@nightryder21]

Lower level emplyess it's a good benefit. Higher level employees it's not a good thing

[@icestationzebraassociates2460]

I'm a lower level employee and this would hurt me. I've got 200+ vacation hours banked. I also plan on moving on here, shortly. Currently, I'll get paid for those hours when I leave. If this were the policy, I wouldn't. I'd just lose that time.

[@voidtalongaming4637]

It hurts lower level as well; the way management operates in America is to always set goals that can just barely not be met to 'promote growth' and I would lay blame on puritan roots that 'if you aren't working you're slacking/sinning' and PTO is 'not working' even if you have that time you can be seen as slacking off because you aren't working; you should be a good worker and work the whole year and get your vacation bonus like every other good employee. If my last statement there sounds like emotional manipulation/abuse that's because it is.

[@bc1969214]

I've already seen what happens as a lower pay person when people have to take their PTO, the rest of us get pulled from our regular jobs that aren't even part of our job description since there is now an even smaller workforce.

[@lewis7315]

when you go on vacation, your clients are being reassigned to someone else and you may not get them back.... being on too much vacation is used to weed out workers who are not serious about their job...which could be why companies are implimenting it!!!

[@sexysputnik]

Thanks for the video. Can you talk about Indian recruiters in the IT industry? I get so many calls/emails from them and more often than not, they don't follow up. And if I do get any interviews, they never show their face. I got to one final interview with the actual employer(American) and it still wasn't the best experience. Overseas recruiters just don't seem to be worth my time or any sane person's.

[@Patriot1790]

My current employer has unlimited PTO for salaried employees. My manager allows me three weeks for vacation. It has been a God send, as I have a Toddler that gets sick a lot. I don't have to worry when I need to take a day or two off. I have had a couple of job offers that paid more, but when you figured in benefits, they really didn't pay more.

[@joannepark9503]

I have a question and I am hoping you can answer. I recently interviewed and it went really well. It’s been 2 weeks and the Director of the program called me and said that they offered the position to someone else only because the position will eventually be a in office position and no longer a remote position. She asked me if I was interested in a temporary remote position for 2 years and I said that is not something I would entertain. She had such nice things to say about me and my interview with her. And she says she really wants me to be a part of her team. She will keep me in mind for other positions and she said if I had an inquiry on other positions she would get with the hiring manager and put a good word in for me. Is this just a way for them to let me go gently? Or do you think this is a person I should keep relationship with?

[@nakedtraitor1802]

Here in the UK I came across jobs where they offer unlimited vacation. But I think it is probably exceptions rather than a trend. But then we tend to have more vacation time (typically 25 to 28 working days a year) than our US colleagues.

[@to4217]

oh wow guys, it... it almost seems like... requiring everyone to take nice long vacations (Im talking more than a pitiful week that does NOT include holidays and weekends) every year... and... and making overworking a taboo... might... might actually result in happier rested employees that dont have this animosity and infighting over who takes what amount of vacation time.

[@mikemichalko3276]

Kudos. I've lived through this disaster a couple of times. If I'm interviewing and I hear this now, I tell them I plan on taking every other Friday off, plus two weeks off. The rest will be used as needed. That way, my perspective employer will know in advance for scheduling. Funny, I never seem to get a call back 😂.

[@user-zo4sd3lf1p]

I hear about this the first time. That's not a widespread phenomenon for Eastern Europe. In my opinion, this benefit could lead a company to a chaotic distribution of tasks. When no one could really do their own work and plan ahead... And even if it's unlimited on paper, there certainly should be some limits... for example, what would the management do if all their doers leave work for vacation simultaneously??? Hire new ones? Pay some random people from the street to do a regular employees job? It's getting worse as you think more of it If I'd hear this benefit from a potential employer I'd be rather curious about getting HOW this company even functioning with this downside?

[@lg3103]

I worked for a company a little over a year and was offered "unlimited vacation" as I was considered part of the Executive team and shortly after joining understood it is only there to benefit the employer. I took 2 vacations while there (1 week each) and even though approved, it was frowned upon. There never is a good time to take vacation or even a day off for Dr. appointments. People hate this model more now thanks to transparency it is seen for what it is. Hence the reason you see the new change from "unlimited" to "flexible" time off.

[@sanjaybarnes5717]

I always said the American work system was designed to destroy you. How do you work for your vacation, take your vacation, then you come back to mountains of work? This means it was best you didn't take vacation at all. How do you leave your work to recharge, then come back just to be drained again from piles of work? This makes no sense. A quality company and manager would redistribute work. I know sometimes there are confidentiality issues with certain position, but you as a manager it is still your job to figure something out. I keep telling people that these managers and recruiters only know human resources, they do not know what human capital is.

[@ukuleleeddie1953]

Grow up and take your vacation. Stop worrying about how your co-workers feel about you taking vacation. And news flash: companies don't want long timers anymore. Yes, unlimited pto gets rid of the seniority factor. Companies like you leaving after a few years. Loyalty and seniority are not assets any more, so take your vacation people. Push it to the max. Don't feel guilty.

[@Zephas99]

Yes - lost a LOT of accrued vacation, and it's not even possible to use when you don't have a backup. It's a very clever trick.

[@SuprousOxide]

Can't tell you how many years I found myself in December (or March, depending on whether the company decided to allow limited rollovers that year), trying to fit 2 weeks of vacation in at the same time everyone else was doing the same. Just never seems time to take your limited vacation days as it is most of the time. I DID like learning that my new job offer unlimited sick days, while my previous offered 5/year (which meant some sick time always had to be counted against vacation). If course in the 18 months I've been there I've used *1* sick day. Though that's probably because of less exposure to common colds etc, since working from home the whole time.

[@edwardthegreat1382]

off topic, but what do you think of a hiring process that requires 5 interviews?

[@jameswinward4354]

5 interviews equals that sucks! Imo

[@aduad]

I disagree with this take. 1. Vacation day payouts are not a thing to look forward to - just take the time 2. You can absolutely take as much vacation as you want before you quit instead of worrying about the payout - again vacation days are not some sort of monetary bonus 3. If you are a bad to average employee why would you be taking so much time off anyway? Your employer is justified to look at this 4. Don't let ANYONE shame you for taking as much vacation as possible within reason...as long as you a performing reasonable well enjoy yourself 5. Maybe it works different at other Companies but I've never heard of work piling up while you are on vacation, there is a planned amount of work for each quarter based on availability, so you basically come back to the work load you left

[@semimba]

Unlimited vacation is no vacation. First you are at the mercy of management. Having unlimited vacation on paper looks good but in reality it is always based on what management wants to give you. Also since you don't accumulate vacation time you actually get a pay cut.

[@myleenjan]

This is simply not true. Vacation is not meant to be accumulated is the whole point. It should be TAKEN for your own health!

[@MikeIsCannonFodder]

My last job was unlimited PTO and taking any was never a problem. Granted most of the time I was there was during COVID. But when I started in 2019 I was able to take a ratio amount of having either 4 or 5 weeks available. My new job is also unlimited PTO (weirdly accrued sick time too) and I like what I've heard from management but I haven't been here long enough to see how it really plays out.

[@vanessaheesen8154]

As someone whose company moved from an accrual model to an unlimited model, I can say that I'm a lot worse now about taking my time. When we had the accrual, I always made sure I was taking enough time while also saving enough for longer vacations. Now, I struggle to take a day or two here and there especially as my role has gotten busier. Unlimited vacation (that doesn't come with a use-it-or-loose-it timer) just means I feel pressure NOT to take time, even when my boss tells me I need to take some.

[@Jessehermansonphotography]

So the only rebuttal so far is that folks don’t actually take the time off. That’s up to the employee. I haven’t yet heard of someone complaining that their company said no. The real trick of this is that employers don’t have tons of PTO on the books. In Montana, you have to pay that out when an employee leaves. Idk how it is everywhere else, but that can be a huge number on the books. I admit, I would feel kinda guilty taking more than 10 to 14 days in a year. So I do think it’s a bit of a gimmick. I have PTO and I can never take it since I’m the lone IT for the entire company. I have 7 weeks on the books. (Not a badge, I literally hate it)

[@manny9323]

If unlimited PTO were truly unlimited, I could take six months off and get paid for it with no consequences as long as my job is getting done. Obviously, that would never happen because they already know how much time off I can take, but they don’t want to tell me. Anytime an employer doesn’t tell you something, it’s to make THEIR lives better, not yours.

[@xiaoyangwu9270]

OMg my last job was exactly what you talked about: I took too many day off and then I was on performance review (banking too much on it)

[@scylla019]

I had a two hour lunch break that I was instructed to only use 1 hour and inform the team if i had to use two. They used that to justify that I don’t have a structured 44 hour workweek so i have to work on saturdays. I ended up working 60 to 70 hour work weeks including saturdays

[@samanthab5006]

Unlimited vacation would be a big turn off for me. You really need to trust your boss and thier ability to set clear expectations and balance workload. I think set PTO with flexible holidays (can work holiday and use day another time) and flex hours (core hours with flexibility on either end) are much better

[@myleenjan]

Managerial approval happens whether you have unlimited or not. If he/she has a problem granting you vacation, you can always get external support since the WHOLE company has it. This is coming from someone who actually HAS unlimited PTO. Don't believe all these strange myths. And question, is it that bad where you wouldn't trust your manager? I think you need to get a new job if this is the case. Managers and everyone should try to take more vacations and not turn into 70 year old workers at Walmart.

[@samanthab5006]

@@myleenjan I'm not saying that it can't work just that you're rolling the dice on your manager, you team, and the culture (and possibly your own insecurities). You can try to figure these things out in an interview but it's not always that easy. I'm glad it works out for you though. In my current role I get a certain number of PTO days and my boss is really flexible with not requiring time off for appointments etc as long as you get work done and don't overuse it. I prefer this but I realize not everyone would.