Why Vegas is Imposing OUTRAGEOUS $3,000 Landing Fees (Formula 1 Grand Prix)

[@ga1205]

AOPA should be all over this. These are public-use airports and they're using pricing to limit who the "public" is.

[@sarahann530]

What system would you prefer if not Capitalism and the notion of supply and demand . It sounds like you want govt enforced price caps would I be correct ?

[@michaelwillman5342]

@@sarahann530 If the airport is run by the government then its not capitalism.

[@sarahann530]

@@michaelwillman5342 The FBOs are not run by the govt . Do you have a problem with supply and demand as a business principle?

[@rogerw3]

@@sarahann530 Airports are built with government money. They should be collecting fees to pay the staff, but I guarantee the asphalt we park on was paid for by the government. So your capitalism argurment is already out the window. This is using infrastructure financed by tax payers for personal profit. This would be like a public parking deck built by the city or the county saying sorry Limos only (private jets). By the way, that goes for the only three parking decks in the whole city. People would be furious.

[@sarahann530]

@@rogerw3 Capitalism and Supply and Demand principles are at play . Airports are raising prices in a time of demand . That is Capitalism pure and simple .

[@heeder777]

Being a former staked holder at KVGT, I can tell Clark County DOA does not care about GA unless you’re in a corporate jet. That’s the business they want and that’s who they cater to.

[@strawdemindset]

Makes sense, with all the money being spent .. the county and promoters have to make back their investment

[@heeder777]

@@strawdemindset I agree, my heartburn is that it's being applied to ALL general aviation aircraft, not just the deep pockets of the corporates.

[@slowhand9mm]

This is just another example of what use to be something an average middle class family could look forward to but is now set up to only cater to the well-to-do. It's happening in a lot of other sectors as well. Our local ski area has day lift tickets well over $100. Hard to have fun with the family at those prices.

[@showspotter]

exactly this. too many htings in society are now for only the well-to-do when they used to be for the average joe.

[@noahshields507]

Average middle class family used to fly ga everywhere? I don’t think so 😂

[@basehorhonda]

If your flying your family in to watch a F1 race, your not average middle class.

[@hawkszone3310]

Nailed it.

[@sarahann530]

​@showspotter So Capitalism is bad

[@0111001010100]

I also fly a cherokee 6 into those airports and I agree that for a county run entity it's outrageous especially with lack of transparency about fees. It should be WELL REPRESENTED in documents months in advance. Somebody is going to get a big oops when they dont read the fine print and land. Also....its a slippery slope. Before you know it every concert or event in vegas will have these special fees.

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

exactly!

[@heartland96a]

As well as the idea will spread to other airports near big name events . Bet Lyft and Uber with their surge pricing will be making a killing as well , where does it end .

[@Steven9675]

I think this should wind up in lawsuits with the excessive fees refunded.

[@red5standingby419]

Said a reservation is required, would they even allow you to land if you didn't make one?

[@heartland96a]

@@red5standingby419 would they let you take off with out paying up

[@billtisdale6122]

Fees are used as a filter to keep those that cannot afford it out. HND and VGT, Clark County Dept of Aviation is the FBO.

[@idkjames]

I would love to see them enforce that landing fee if just dropping off. lol. Good luck. I've refused landing fees before while transient and nothing happened.

[@idkjames]

@@andrewholden1501 well they never have lol

[@Lifebackmed]

@@idkjamesI don’t know if you’d be able to land. You need a PPR to land and need to pay to get a PPR

[@johnjones5354]

They have to do something to try to recover the tens of millions of dollars that this farce of a race is costing the city/county.

[@TIO540S1]

They're charging it because they can get it, full stop. I bet, given how full up they are, they wish they'd charged much more.

[@NED07]

next year it will probably be $10k

[@firebush1343]

They want private jets. People on private jets don't give a fuck about 3k.

[@baldisaerodynamic9692]

they have been filling up for 6 months.

[@markstephenanderson]

Good work. I appreciate your due diligence on behalf of us GA destination travelers!

[@Matt-xu3lb]

I think it is worth AOPA getting involved in.

[@stevepaul6360]

They won't do anything. Here in Europe we face similar issues daily yet AOPA doesn't get involved......

[@AMoose454]

AOPA.. you really are a schmuck

[@JediOfTheRepublic]

@MooneyPilotNope, it's called greed and you get it with any economic system. GTFO, you commie.

[@Kaipeternicolas]

AOPA probably gets a cut. I doubt they will do much. They used to care about those things but now when the CEO makes over $1.6 mil he needs to keep other big players happy.

[@Jimmer-Space88]

AOPA is useless!

[@randyharbaugh7819]

If I had a hanger there or a reserved spot I might be tempted to go the airbnb route and rent out my hangar space for $10k for the weekend and enjoy a vacation out of town.

[@gsxr600rafii]

For county ran/tax payer funded airport, this seems really illegal/extortion

[@dreed7312]

The entire state is a criminal enterprise and thats why lowlifes want to go there.

[@red5standingby419]

It said right in the document he read in the video that they were self sustaining and don't use/require tax money. Did you watch the video at 9:08 ?

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

Yes that is true but they have accepted federal money.

[@driftlesstrekker4709]

@@red5standingby419 It's still a public entity.

[@GermanGuy007]

Just for the fun of it I just checked ticket and hotel prices for the F1 weekend in Vegas. Actually the landing fees are peanuts compared to decent tickets and hotel accommodations.

[@bwalker4194]

While I used to attend a few F1 races, they are now only F1 Technology Parades for the rich and famous. I now watch them taped so I can fast forward through 90 percent of the broadcast while sipping a $1 mimosa and having 10 second access to a restroom. This illuminates the increasingly glaring discord between the world of Airventure and the world of F1, both of which share the seeming commonality of general aviation. It is just an illusion, and in this case befitting of being held in the most illusory place in the world.

[@Timbuhr]

0L7 is a great uncontrolled airport just south of Henderson that is still less than 30mins from the strip. There are two slydiving centers and some gliders there as well and everyone there is very friendly!

[@karlw7764]

Not much in the way of parking though, and no bathroom unless the skydiving guys let you use theirs.

[@JeremyFath]

Don’t bring up 0L7. They are already planing her demise for the Southern Nevada Supplemental Airport

[@karlw7764]

​@@JeremyFathinteresting.

[@challenger2ultralightadventure]

Those "fees" are a clear "stay away, we don't want you unwashed little people coming here" kind of slap in the face. I would never fly to Vegas ever again, for any reason, and go where I am welcome. Cheers from Winnipeg.

[@10RRASK]

I get the PPR part, parking space is a finite resource, especially when an increased number clientele for a certain event will be taking their own planes. When the Super Bowl was in Minneapolis, the airport I’m at, St. Cloud KSTC, was the designated airport for all the light jets. I forget the exact number but it was something like 50 jets, so many that the crosswind runway was closed to park jets on.

[@rexbeau]

The real question is what are the County leaders doing with the large surplus. Are they reinvesting these Government funds into the community? Or, are they "laundering" it through their buddies in the private sector to benefit themselves? (If it were my community, this is the first place I would look; they have a history of doing it.) Their constituents and local media need to investigate this new largess. One place to start is to make the local news stations aware...

[@sarahann530]

​@sjb3460 What system would you like to see replace Capitalism?

[@Birdsaregovspys6969]

@@sarahann530kleptocracy* you mean?

[@sarahann530]

@@Birdsaregovspys6969 What system would you prefer that you think would improve your life ?

[@buckhorncortez]

By Federal Law, the money generated by an airport has to go back to the airport for operations or maintenance and development. The money cannot be used by another government entity.

[@dmacpher]

@@sarahann530really just keep posting the same thing eh lol

[@CFLARROW]

I dropped my AOPA membership because they claim to fight for lower or at least fair and reasonable airport fees… but have yet to get any changed.. it all sounds good on paper but literally nothing changed. KEYW is still a rip off which was one of their target airports to lower fees…

[@casesully50]

I'm a long time F1 fan, I'm also American. I was excited when they first announced this race because I thought it would be fun and it's on my birthday. However things got ugly very fast. All the casino owners bought a majority of tickets before they were even available for normal people to buy. They hiked the rates over 300%. F1 tickets are already VERY high in price. So cash grab already. Then I saw the layout and state of the track. The asphalt is cracked and dried. They didn't even repave parts of the desert dried strip which is extremely dangerous for F1 cars if they bounce and lose their floor downforce. It's just a huge recipe for something bad. I don't know what but I feel like sin city is going to live up to it's name on this.

[@ethepilot6402]

There has been a PPR Notam for LAS for months. It’s not just for special events anymore.

[@user-re4hc7yf2m]

Worthless notam really. You call the number and it just transfers you to either atlantic or signature. Basically the notam is telling pilots to make sure theres ramp space before showing up

[@JBoy340a]

LAS does not want the small GA aircraft anymore.

[@Mr_Bones.]

This is a great short video on this crazy situation, thanks for going the extra mile and making all those calls!

[@LimaFoxtrot]

Public entities -- especially airports that take FAA grant funding -- can only typically charge fees that offset the cost of actually delivering the services. We had that battle here at SBA and it forced the airport to bring their fees down once the City Council got involved. It's no different than being price-gouged on a building permit. Those things are typically illegal. A landing fee is a public use fee just like all other public fees.

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

i hope you're right. I'll be looking into the money trail.

[@joejdl]

If all 3 airports in the area are run by a commercially funded organisation (even if owned by the county) then they have a monopoly and this is abuse of market position…

[@Mr_Bones.]

Sooooo, since the airports have insane $3000 landing fees, this is where good ol’ free market economics should step up and offer a desert “grass strip” to land planes at a $200 plus gas. They can’t handle jets, but you would have Cessna’s and Piper’s in n out all day long ;)

[@NED07]

because there isnt that option available anywhere near lv

[@DominicUliano]

Great video!! Let's hope this does not become a trend with other large scale events. The World Cup will be in US/Canada/Mexico in 2026, it would be horrible if other airports/FBO's start doing this for GA planes.

[@daviddefelice6997]

Signature at Key West does the same thing. Last year they charged a $ 500.00 'event fee' for the annual Fantasy Fest - an adult themed party. I know of a pilot who took his college age daughter and her friend to Key West for a mini vacation, and didn't know anything about Fantasy Fest. They were forced to pay the fee, even though they weren't going to it. You're right about all this being a money grab. Key West fuel is currently $ 9.34 a gallon, and doesn't stray from that very much year 'round. The airport is run by the county, and Signature is the only FBO there. Sounds like a lot of collusion to me.

[@kaasmeester5903]

The fee is unreasonable even if you are going to the event.

[@josepha7621]

Fantastic video and journalism, thank you for your activism in the GA community!!

[@CascadiaAviation]

When I flew into Salinas for a massive event at Laguna Seca raceway I paid ZERO to park after getting a little fuel. They unloaded my bags for me and gave my girlfriend and I the VIP treatment.

[@AlyssaM_InfoSec]

Wow, when I landed at KORD in my Cherokee it was $70 Handling (waived with fuel), $140 Landing, $140/night, and $7 Infrastructure at Signature and that was normal parking. I thought that was pretty typical of Bravos, surprised Vegas' FBOs are that cheap.

[@christophernowak3510]

Great video yet again! You were more calm in the criticism of the county. Let's just call it what it is: Price gouging on a situation where they know the visitors can and will pony up the money for parking leaving us little guys in the dust.

[@tylerwatts1649]

The airports own a fixed resource which is in high demand... they are charging a market price/ rent. You can call it "price gouging" if it makes you feel better.

[@karlw7764]

@@tylerwatts1649they can set their rates freely when they pay for the ground the airport sits on and all the facilities and runways. Until then, it’s federal property and we all have a right to use public transportation infrastructure for reasonable fees.

[@tylerwatts1649]

@@karlw7764 I must have missed the "right to land at a county airport" in the Bill of Rights--I'll go check my pocket Constitution again. What this really comes down to, though, is what constitutes "reasonable" fees. Why is $3,000 unreasonable? Because Flying Monkey doesn't want to pay it?

[@joneis1]

Austin Bergstrom KAUM was $650 for ramp fee for last weekend Austin F1 race. Austin Exec, KEDC was only $20 a night with no landing fee. Both airplanes had a PPR notam.

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

It wouldn’t be too bad if it weren’t ALL the airports in the area. Still is gouging either way in my opinion.

[@rocky_williams]

I was picking up passengers at KAUS after the F1 race last year. The ramp was packed. We got the last parking spot. Refueling took about 2 hours in spite of the fact we had a reservation. There was two fuel trucks that were running nonstop. I watched them go back to the fuel farm to refill. That takes some time. Then we were in line for departure for 57 minutes before we got airborne. Our initial call for taxi got a response from ATC to standby, expect a 20 minute wait, do not shut down engines, be ready when called. They were using parallel runways. Imagine how long it would take if they didn’t have parallel runways.

[@Androidandmore101]

I tried to land the day before at KEDC and was told $400 actually..you must have spoke to the right person

[@tonamg53]

@@Androidandmore101or he spoke to the wrong person who only knew the standard fees.

[@thomasmay6277]

Prices are high because demand is high. It makes sense for the executive to try to get the maximum amount of revenue it can for this event. Even if it held prices artificially low, there would still be a shortage of space and a need for PPR.

[@garretthill7914]

Ya Ya, they are taking advantage of an opportunity, and it's a bad weekend for small planes, but look on the bright side. We give up one weekend in Vegas and a ton of money goes into the employees (Tips) and businesses at the airport. This makes them stronger and encourages more investment and development. I say let the ultra-rich G6 owner subsidize the airport, just keep it cheap for the other 51 weekends when I want to fly there!

[@skyepilotte11]

I think most of these airports receive federal grants...they shouldn't be gouging on fees...correct me if I'm wrong.

[@hewhohasnoidentity4377]

The local media has been reporting that HND and LAS were adding parking facilities to handle the Super Bowl. Then the F1 was announced and they had to expedite the construction but it is not possible to prepare enough aircraft parking to meet the demand. The last update I saw was that during F1 and the Super Bowl aircraft are expected to drop off their passengers and depart the area until it is time to retrieve passengers. And they mean depart the area. As in plan on parking in the Phoenix metro because that will be the closest available parking.

[@storaasli]

In 2022 the Superbowl was at SoFi Stadium in LA, 3 miles from Hawthorne airport. They had very high ramp fees that weekend. They also advised all tiedown Tennant's that their planes may be moved to a temporary parking area to make room for the expected high traffic. They advised hangar tenants that we would not be able to get out of our hangars due to parking transient aircraft in the non movement area in front of the hangars. When Superbowl day came, the ramp was not crowded. I think the high fees caused planes to lad at LAX or VNY instead of HHR.

[@tylerwatts1649]

SoCal Flying Monkey-- have you ever taken a college level course in economics? I ask in all seriousness--not mocking. This is a classic case of a rapid rise in demand driving an increase in the equilibrium price. Because the supply curve for landing/ parking spots is vertical (i.e. fixed), when demand increases, the entire adjustment (rationing) process has to occur through changes in price and price alone (whereas is the demand for corn flakes goes up, companies can respond by simply producing a lot more of them--the supply curve is very flat or "elastic"). If the airports did not raise the price, you'd be dealing with chronic shortages, and I'm willing to bet that would cause a lot more frustration and anger than the higher price. At any rate, whenever a resource is scarce (there's not enough to satisfy every possible use), it has to be rationed among competing users. Prices are a relatively painless and efficient way to ration scarce resources; the alternatives, I might suggest, are all ugly in their own ways and are usually way less efficient than using the price mechanism. How would scarce airport capacity be allocated in the absence of market pricing? I'm guessing it would be on the basis of who is going to bring the most overall business to the airport (fuel, passengers, cargo, etc.). If you are not bringing them other business to help them make money and remain viable, you might actually be thankful that they are letting you bid against the "big guys" for the ability to use their services! Without the ability to pay a market price, a lot of users are going to be cut out completely from access to the service.

[@pedrosaltini987]

Thanks for the explanation!

[@IzabelleSmith_0823]

facts

[@michaelsteffens2864]

Spit those facts.

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

This approach is fine for private industry. This is a public utility. You could easily have a lottery PPR system to manage the parking and ramp capacity. That would be a more egalitarian approach to decide who gets disappointed- it wouldnt be exclusively the people who can't afford $3000- it would either be those who didnt get the lottery or those who didnt plan ahead enough. The CCDOA ran a surplus last year without adding huge special event fees. A small fee to support increase in operation expense would be reasonable. I don't honestly believe that to come to $3000 per plane. I don't believe that $3000 is necessary to keep the CCODA and airports self sustaining AT ALL. At the very least, there should be transparency on the fees vs operating expenses for this event since this is a federal grant accepting airport management organization that runs public airports. I'll be publishing an update in which you'll learn how the CCDOA hasn't been willing to share any specifics with the FAA or AOPA.

[@tylerwatts1649]

@@SoCalFlyingMonkey Flying Monkey, how many Americans have a pilot's license or access to a private airplane? I'm guessing it's well under 1 million (please correct me if you have this data to hand). 1M/330M = 0.30% of the population. And you're looking for an "egalitarian" approach? I guess everything's relative ;-)

[@OmarKnowCars]

AOPA to the rescue! Please don’t let them get away with this nonsense. Those outrageous fees will be nationwide if they are not stopped immediately.

[@tylerwatts1649]

Imagine having to pay for access to scarce resources that are owned by other people!

[@tigersfan14]

@@tylerwatts1649 *Publicly owned, tax payer funded airport.

[@michaelmavity8008]

I know that this isn’t relevant but I’ll say it anyway, gosh I love being a Medevac pilot. I go into KLAS regularly, normal fees at Atlantic and I buy gas to get those waived, no reservations, no holding, no flow times, no delays, always in front of the line of Southwest jets. Clearance is almost always direct to and clear visual turn at least a 3 mile final. In a tired PC-12. Videos like this make me realize how truly lucky I am.

[@Uberaroundtheworld530]

Unless this was announced so we’ll that every pilot in America knew about it, anybody who lands there to refuel or who didn’t know would easily win a lawsuit against that airport . You can’t magically impose thousand dollar fees without announcing it before pilots take off from their destination and are in an emergency situation.

[@CAIDMASTEROFPYRO]

$3000 seems like nothing as a landing fee, when you think of commercial airlines but when it's a little turboprop with a pilot and maybe one passenger that is crazy

[@karlw7764]

LAX landing fee is $75.

[@LauraHarold-n8e]

It has to do with all the fees associated with staffing, extra equipment required, and custom fees not normally needed during these events.

[@mattk8810]

This is great for staff. One thing that is great for them is the tips

[@kylemccartney1831]

I heard hotels are blocking windows on rooms that have “any view” of the track, along with the bridges being closed, just because F1 doesn’t want any non-ticket holder seeing the race. I believe shops have to pay to be open during the race too.

[@marvindebot3264]

Yes that wouldn't surprise me, F1 is (barely) legalized theft.

[@Glidesmooth]

I agree the fees are high for single engine plane. But we have been spoiled. Ask the Jet people what they pay for fees, it will blow your mind. How about charging more for a twin when it’s the same size as a single, that’s BS to. Boils down to the fact they only want the big money planes and singles are getting pushed out. How about Chicago who charges the same for any plane below 12,500lbs. It was in the old days based on weight. They priced small planes out of ORD even though I could keep up with the airline’s landing. Look at what party line is sticking it to you!😢

[@sofloaviation]

Super Bowl fee’s in Miami ranged from $1,800 50 miles away up to $9,500 a couple miles from the stadium

[@Time2Vote2012]

I'm the owner of a Cherokee similar to yours, but live in the Vegas area. What I wanted to comment on is the Clark County Aviation Department. If I remember right, one of its last leaders was Randy Walker. Randy was a Clark County employer who filled several leadership positions, usually when another person or group, had been caught with their hands, feet and even their entire torso caught in the taxpayer funded cookie jar, which often included a Reid family member. His last mission was to clean up the airport authority and add the final terminal. Prior to Randy, the Airport authority was like all the rest, constantly over budget and behind schedule. The current surplus will soon disappear with the current leadership and County Commission who never tire of spending OPM. (IT'S amazing how soon some of these public servants move into homes twice as big as had owned. Randy still lived in the sane house he was cleaning up all the corruption. It's sad his name is nowhere on public buildings, nut Harry Reid, a nationally known corrupt politician is.

[@arniemengel2298]

When I went into KIND the day before the Indy 500, the landing fee for a light twin was $110, but the special event day fee was only an additional $210, what a bargain.

[@marvindebot3264]

Now see that's reasonable given the day but 3 grand is just piracy.

[@lyianx]

They are (im guessing) doing this for two reasons. 1. They know the upper class will be flying private jets in to watch the race. They know they have money, and will pay those fees. 2. They charge a high fee to try to discourage absolutely EVERYONE from flying in because they don't have the ramp space.

[@Scottforyoutube]

Straight-up gouging, in the same way, that gets these atty general's offices going after businesses. PPR is one thing unsupported fees are quite another!

[@ingramleedy]

Seems if federal money was used to build these airports there should be a public parking option, at least first come first serve. Since the FBOs are private they probably have the r right what the market will support. Charging these prices make available space for clients who will pay that price. However i think since FBOs at federally funded airports should be transparent and post their fees and in a reasonable time for planning. Good time to add this to law.

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

the FBOs at KVGT and KHND are run by the county..although there may be more to the relationship than that. Atlantic and Signature are private companies. I agree that it's egregious considering the airports were built by public tax dollars. I believe they also receive some federal grants.

[@gwgaskin]

and what happens when 1200 GA aircraft fly in to airport that can handle say 500 aircraft parking spaces. Where do they go? There's only so much space to safely park aircraft. Maybe let them pile up on the movement area and just put out an AD CLSD NOTAM? These airports aren't OSH 🤷‍♂.

[@ingramleedy]

@@SoCalFlyingMonkey Yea county or whatever public FBO should be open and transparent. First come first serve makes sense. If they run out of space they run out of space. I could see them using a reservation system would help in planning. As far as private FBOs they probably have the right to charge what they want. I feel that some of these should have memberships where you could exercise privileges across their properties and have consistent pricing or part of the membership. But that is up to their business model. Tax payers and their representatives decided on allowing private FBOs on their public lands.. BUT there should be some federal regulation that public access must be made regardless. There could be a formula or rule developed around this. If you accept federal money then these are the rules. Quite frankly that’s how the federal government regulates states and get them on board with most tough subjects. You could also argue that airports need access to the federal NAS, so.. therefore could enforce some rules regardless or public private. There is a private airport that I want to use here in Florida that happens to be the only airport within an hour of Boca Grande, but they charge a $1200 landing fee. They simply don’t want anyone there but cater to private jets of some wealthy and affluent clientele. They didn’t take any federal, county, or local funds..

[@ryanawilson8549]

Sounds like prop planes are getting shafted

[@randyharbaugh7819]

I can understand a reasonable bump in fees for a very busy weekend, you may need to bring in extra spotters, extra fuel truck people, ramp agents, security to handle the extra traffic. Not knowing the hours of operation for the tower they may need extra people, do they have customs / immigration to handle anyone coming in from Mexico or another country. or do the have to go to KLAS first and get double charged, A $3k fee is way above that amount of what the charge for extra labor would be..

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

Totally agree. If they need to bring people on or administer the PPR/res system that can cost $. But guaranteed it’s not hundreds of thousands of dollars… wonder what the capacity is of each ramp?

[@DaedricFaZe]

And on "once a year busy" weekend, the G650 and Globals are beyond priority than any piston engine in existence. Sorry, go away unless you're paying the same.

[@IronHideWildfire]

I am so thankful for your work on this subject

[@kyleseaverson5178]

PPR's and high ramp fees are pretty standard for all "Special Events" (The Master's, Superbowl, etc.). Not sure why anyone would think this would be any different.

[@sardave]

I wonder what it cost to land at Jean? Knowing Vegas the rates will go up after the F1 race,,, they’ll seize the opportunity any chance they get…

[@TacoTruck17]

That's crazy! Hotels are doing the same thing!

[@bodybeastk]

Great questions you asked.

[@flyingmusician]

Those fees are insane!!!

[@skybound38]

the runways and taxi ways are public entities funded by public money. The ramps are owned by private corporations and thus, as of now can charge what they want to park or enter their ramp. However they are profiting off of access to the pubic entity and consumers have no choice since there is no public ramp space. This needs to change.

[@flysport_tedder]

definitely not saying it's right, but it's econ 101, yeah? high demand, low supply, you can either ration it or auction it. they chose the latter. the former also causes pain.

[@theonlywoody2shoes]

What happens to aircraft based there? Some potential “income” flying out and returning from a nearby (~1 hour) airport with people who flew there?

[@DaedricFaZe]

Based aircraft air waived

[@frak357]

The issue is they are expecting so many planes coming in for the larger events that they expect to completely run out of parking spaces. So the higher fees discourage some to attempt to look at other airports.

[@n3xt0n3xt]

And for example, take a look at air traffic in Miami during their race weekend or even Austin

[@karlw7764]

@@n3xt0n3xtok, what happened to their air traffic?

[@carljacobs1260]

They are using price to screen clientele. High landing fees limit the population of people who will pay. I assume they would rather have rich people in jets attend the event. Better ROI.

[@nicktalavera9659]

That one student practicing pattern: Comes back to find a $12,000 bill 😂

[@bigdog107no2]

All about the money, pretty easy to figure this out. People willing to spend $3000 to land are definitely going to spend a larger amount money in Vegas! The little guy who can't afford the landing fee's aren't going to spend the same amount of money. Just a simple fact of life!

[@Fidd88-mc4sz]

A concerted price-rise like that would be classed 'as anti-competitive' here in the UK, essentially abuse of a monopoly, and even though there's 4 or 5 airports, one could still sue companies operating in this way, and, you'd have a bloody good chance of winning litigation I would think, as there's no way on earth this simultaneous set of price rises occurred without prior collusion. You need to sue them. If I recall correctly, isn't there a 25 year rule that says if a US airfield receives federal funding, it has to operate in a particular way for the next 25 years?? Unless they've all simultaneously hit the 25 year since they last accepted free money (like that's EVER going to happen in Vegas!) one would think they're batting on a very sticky wicket. I did run into a similar problem with French ATC many years ago, you had to organise customs for most airfields, but the idle buggers would NEVER answer the telephone. My CFI came up with the answer, which was to Flight-plan to Le Touquet (where there was a permanent very bored customs wallah) and then DIVERT to where I actually wanted to go to all along, for reasons I was not required to give! They scrambled a helicopter after us and out poured half a dozen plain-clothes customs agents with wide 1970's ties of nauseating-hue, and tan leather jackets which went out of fashion in 1980. They tried very hard to look menacing, but when one of us giggled, and we sweetly pointed out that, in best schoolboy French that "if they answered their damned telephones this sort of thing wouldn't happen", and "what a lovely looking helicopter! " (I lied through my teeth at this point!) and were permitted to proceed to lunch. I suspect that interfering with lunch was a solecism of such degree that is actually why we weren't searched!). I'm not sure if one can actually be charged landing fees for a diversion? Perhaps a prolonged outbreak of GA diversions to Vegas airfields is in order? ;-)

[@PatrickAlexanderThePilot]

We don't need any guard rails! Fair market value is going to apply whenever there is demand and supply disbalance! I would say stop worrying about things that aren't any concern for regular people, whoever can afford to pay 3k, they will as it suits them, even 5k or 10k!

[@juancarlosgomez-montejano2961]

Would this be price gauging?

[@buckhorncortez]

The money collected by the airport (not an FBO, the airport itself) cannot and does not go to any other government entity. By Federal Law, the money generated by an airport has to go back into airport operations or airport maintenance and development. That's why airports are always under construction in some way - they're trying to spend the money they've generated. Obviously, if the FBOs are out of space for the event - the landing fee isn't a problem.

[@iscorechicks]

Maybe they can increase the price even higher for f1 and SuperBowl, 50k to park and subsidize fees for the rest of the year, If you're coming from Europe or asia on a jet you can certainly afford an extra 50 pop

[@lardyify]

It’s a popular destination and pilots are obviously prepared to pay the fees. Commercial operators will simply recoup the money from their customers. On the other hand, in Cunumulla, New South Wales, landing costs you nothing and fuel’s pretty cheap mainly because hardly anyone wants to go there.

[@Vejitasei]

Let's just be honest. The corp jets coming in for the F1 race have deep pockets, they are asking for this fee because they suspect / know that the corp jets can afford it and will pay. They don't need or care about the single engine piston. We don't buy enough fuel and we won't pay $3k for a single event. I believe in the free market, but as you mentioned these are often county airports, and I feel that some reasonable controls need to be in place for public use and supported entries. IF the county airport receives no tax dollars, then they have a right to try to be as profitable as they choose. I think not even being able to drop off passengers is BS (and sounds nearly impossible to actually enforce) but will see what happens next. Reminds me of LAX landing fee BS back around 1993.

[@mtnairpilot]

It doesn't sound like those fees are being mandated by the airport authority. It sounds like a decision by the FBOs. The FBOs do have limited ramp space, and increasing the ramp fees is one way to match the supply with the demand. The airport authority does benefit indirectly since they probably receive a fuel flowage fee from the FBOs and would rather have jets taking hundreds of gallons vs piston singles taking only a few gallons. Frankly I'm surprised some of these big airport FBOs sell avgas at all. A similar issue has already been fought and lost by AOPA relating to high fees charged by FBOs which are the sole provider on the field. Asheville, NC is one example. The ruling was essentially that the FBOs could charge whatever the market would bear.

[@ChristopherPalmer-tc4ys]

In my humble opinion it appears to me that these airports as well as others are doing their best to cater to the rich like everything else in this country. Hard working people are just out of luck in this new world... On a brighter note you make great videos.

[@Micslmn]

It’s ridiculous, I was looking to get in the weekend of 11/17-11/19 and literally have no where to park. I even considered Boulder City which has a first come first serve ramp, the FBOs mentioned they expect to be full there as well.

[@stemerri6020]

Try St. George… It has always been the Airline employees backup plan when things are busy in Vegas. Just a two hour drive, nice airport, and rental cars available.

[@Micslmn]

@@stemerri6020 thanks! I’ll look into it.

[@NorthwestAeronaut]

Very interesting, and unreasonable fees. Side note: where is your hat from? 😊

[@FlightX101]

It is what it is and with context its not all that bad. For major events VIPs will happily pay the fees for convenience sake. On regular days the fees look fair 🤷‍♂️. But for pistons the FBOs should prove that they truly have no space before charging

[@Bill4LE]

Agree! Not really much need for concern at all

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

Until they start saying more and more things are a special event. And every airport gets a glimpse of it and then you can no longer fly yourself GA to go to any events.

[@Vejitasei]

Unfortunately life doesn't work that way. These things mostly work on precedent. LAX had a similar issue back in like 1993. IIRC they raised landing fees to $900 (this included the majors) to fund the general treasury. Went all the way to the supreme court. The final ruling basically said fees must be used for airport services only. Which leads to the question of why $40 one day but $3000 another. Answer, because they can. And I have no real issue with that from a free market stand point. However, if a county airport is tax payer supported, that's different. If the airports are not supported by 'the people' and really operate independently then they are free to do whatever they like. But they will start declaring everything a special event, charge as much as the corp jets will pay, and squeeze out small piston GA. To be fair, at a lot of airports that's the goal! They are pretty open about it. They only want part 121/135 and large jets. Pistons take up space and don't buy enough fuel.

[@gorgly123]

Thanks for this info. I was maybe planning a trip to Vegas in the near future. Will need to check before going to see if they are going to be imposing this ridiculous fee.

[@Bill4LE]

It's just for special events. It's usually fine. I always call FBOs before anyway so it's really not a big deal

[@yeetyeetyeeter6883]

Wow thank you for this. It makes sense now. I'm down there for SEMA, Concours, and F1 flying private. While we still can for the first two events, F1 was a no go as there are 0 spots which is understandable. Asked if we could go to Henderson Exec, they had a surcharge, fine. Then size of jet was an issue, that's a thing at an Exec airport?! Granted this is a huge event I'm sure they can fit a 16 passenger jet somewhere. In all, we're now flying commercial LMAO

[@marvindebot3264]

That must hurt, you have a jet and need to fly commercial anyway because you can't get a parking slot. I'd be pissed.

[@davidglass8751]

It is obvious. Since during these events they have limited number of people allowed, they are keeping people away that do not want to pay the fee because those people are less likely to spend more money in Vegas. They do not want people that are not able or willing to spend excessively to take the spots of those that do.

[@harmgregory4560]

Thanks for the heads-up... 😮

[@mike321go]

well said, thanks for the heads up

[@gmtless6]

I think if I was hangar tenant at North Las Vegas or Henderson I’d relocate my plane to Boulder City and rent my hangar for $1500 for the weekend :)

[@jamesriley4857]

You miss the fact Clark County owns the real estate and is not paying a market value lease. It's more complex than that because this is a gateway to our city and taxpayer subsidy to create traffic is okay but only when needed. Access to public lands of all types is being more closely managed.

[@alexrcastillo1977]

Wow that’s so crazy. Won’t be going the week of formula 1. Or Super Bowl. lol.

[@ebenezerwheezer2957]

Fly into Jean sport aviation airport.

[@MsLisaN]

Wow! As a new pilot airport fees seem to be the new normal. I wonder how a GA piston pilot at these airports handle going in and out of there with these fees in place? Are they exempt if they have a hanger there? Yikes. I believe NOTAMS should be made at least two weeks in advance of any fee, and should include all "Normal" fees as well. If you dig through the AOPA destinations site you can find some of the fees, but these fees should be found on the chart suppliment (normal fees) or NOTAMS for irregular fees. IMHO

[@coldham77]

Special events in Vegas are designed for people who employ their own pilots. It would be nice to see them put that extra money into a new airport or some kind of pilot training.

[@luiul1]

When are you gonna post your video about the $11,237 fee Bellagio is charging for their F1 package? that does not include the room rental either. when you post your video for that i'll leave a comment there.

[@dwayne7356]

Are they going to take this extra money and build more ramp space for future events?

[@carlstrohmeyer]

Thanks for the enlightening information. I've been a pilot since 1989 (multi-engine rated), and Las Vegas Internation/McCarren was a favorite location to fly from El Monte or Bracket. Back the 90s, Fuel was much more as well, but it was worth it for the convenience. I am not currently active (due to some family issues that required a move), and I now reside in Oregon.

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

While I'm not a fan of money grabs in any situation, if they are being truthful in the assertion that the expected demand will far outstrip supply, what better option would they have for choosing who gets the limited supply? If it's first-come-first-served, that just creates a scalper market. Of if you require a tail number when you make the reservation, some charter service will pay a web monkey to hammer the reservation site and slam in every plane they own 3 seconds after any event opens up. If this becomes common enough, the money to be made might pay for building a 4th airport or expanding capacity at the ones that are there!

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

Solved easily with a lottery and non transferrable tail number reservation. Pretty easy to do it without huge fees. Scalper markets can be avoided with lottery and the technology we have. It's not that hard to design a system to mitigate all these things. We sent men to the moon over 50 years ago- we can figure out how to fairly distribute some parking spaces....if people really wanted to.

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

​@@SoCalFlyingMonkey when do you run the lottery? Too early and it favors people who are quick to jump. Too late and people can't make plans. Also some big charter company could just enter a few hundred aircraft and are still likely to get most of them. If you limit how many entries any one owner can make, well shell companies aren't that expensive to create. The only fair thing would be to create more supply.

[@SoCalFlyingMonkey]

that's what they are trying to do by scaling up ramp operation personnel and resources...but 99% of us doubt it actually costs $3000 per plane to do that....

[@mdskydive7245]

How on earth do FBO's have anything to do with ATC? PPR's are air traffic related, not private company related so I am confused here.

[@bodybeastk]

The ppr ar fbos are just so they can make sure they have space. It sounds confusing but if no ppr was needed the Ramps would be slammed on that weekend event. This system happens as Super Bowl and masters each year for most that are use to it nothing new. Costly event

[@mdskydive7245]

@bodybeastk Well I have worked multiple NBAA conventions and Nascar races and PPR's were not abused and were for aircraft filing with FAA. This is not PPR. So I still do not understand this as it is not correct nor simple.

[@skigolfmike]

Supply and demand! It sucks, and, even worse is that you wouldn’t know about it by normal Aviation means. NOTEMs, web searches etc. Let’s face it, the high rollers in their Gulfstreams aren’t even going to blink at those prices. IMNSHO, they prices should be tiered. I do get the reservations though to prevent running out of ramp space. Still, the fees seem exorbitant.

[@christopherwestphal7149]

Reservation systems can be super expensive especially if its only used a few times a year with 24/7 support from the vendor in case something breaks during or at the lead up to the event. that might be some of it. but not 3k worth.

[@walterrawdanik8077]

They have crapload of jets full of millionaires coming in … $3000 is about 5 minutes flight time for each of these jets so thats nothing - this is their way of reserving room for all these jets.

[@jeffgaskell3705]

It is an excellent balanced look at the issue. Vote with your feet, let them know what you think.

[@RichardSpeights]

Do these fees apply for someone landing simply for fuel? Is permission also necessary in this case?

[@anbu94]

Pilot: MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY, need to land immediately! ATC: ok, what is your fuel remaining in minutes, souls onboard and a credit card for the $3000 fee?

[@RichardSpeights]

@@anbu94 That's not what I mean. Will they charge 3000 dollars for a normal, cross-country flight refueling. (And if you're declaring an emergency because your running out of fuel, you've got a greater problem then a high landing fee. The FAA's gonna wanta know why you got yourself in such a situation.)

[@TurfSurf]

First resort fee, now the landing fee, next driving fee..........LOL

[@CarlMims]

Wow, and to think Federal dollars (my taxes) made it possible. I understand parking overnight and selling fuel to offset costs, but this is crazy. Federal money paid for the runway, setup of everything and the controllers/tower staff that handled you getting it. I understand a high overnight fee due to limited space, even a modest handling fee, offset by buying services. But totally out of line just because some will pay.

[@wvince8115]

I can almost guarantee that all three of these airports receive federal funding and can be compared to Interstate highways as far as public use. If we use the FBO facilities, they can charge what they want but I shouldn't be forced to use them. A landing fee should be considered like a toll road fee if at all. No toll road is going to go up 1000% for special events. I should be able to land and park somewhere on the airport away from the FBO. $3000 is ridiculous and the entity controlling these airports should be fined heavily for trying to impose these fees.

[@tpspc03]

They need the fee with the reservation system to stop people from booking reservations for cheap and selling their spots for a profit. The FBO is better to make money than reservation scalpers.

[@jmcguire5151]

They have some high rollers coming in, they don't want your pop can littering the ramp.