Why Vegeta ALWAYS beats Goku

In this video, we look at the World of Dragon Ball in more detail.
Credit
Thumbnail - salvamakoto on Deviant Art

[@Sjono]

“Super Saiyan was a legendary state that only happened every 1000 years” Legendary bargain sale

[@epieon943]

You are confusing a legendary super saiyan with a super saiyan.

[@Sjono]

@@epieon943 No I’m not You’re not getting it. You say that like being a super Saiyan isn’t legendary itself because you’re so accustomed to the bargain sale it’s become There’s the legendary Super Saiyan and then there’s the Legendary Super Saiyan

[@ryszakowy]

goku's first encounter with proper saiyan ended on goku getting rekt and vegeta's first encounter with proper saiyan ended on losing his tail and life long trauma

[@azimuddin1890]

Vegeta won that battle fair, he used his moves and powers.

[@swiglilyboop]

My favorite part is when he threw back to the future 3 at him

[@nevadalotto560]

I ain't gonna Vegeta lost that fight which crazy but Goku is just him and they jumped him to yeah Vegeta never stood chance

[@yusavelli0448]

Movies?

[@azimuddin1890]

@@yusavelli0448 Didn’t noticed it, I edited it.

[@swiglilyboop]

@@azimuddin1890 awe now my jokes not funny lol

[@ShadmanRaquib]

Isn't this a known fact or are people still fighting over it

[@richardh9828]

Vegeta likes this Video. Also, me too. If only they kept their tails ...

[@jruler93]

Yeah, but Goku lost his tail because Toriyama found it a nuisance to keep drawing it (especially since Goku is the main character), and Vegeta and Gohan lost theirs (and no Saiyan ever had a tail again) for the same reason.

[@LygarZeroX]

he won physically, but lost against goku's spirit. he didn't consider goku having allies as unfair. it was a war to him. not only did he lose the war, he was spared on the battle field. a true humiliation. if vegeta got away on his own, he wouldn't have been as obsessed with goku.

[@snow7728]

You get it

[@richardkenan2891]

Yep, Vegeta won the battle of power, Goku won the battle of spirit and mentality. It took years, or even decades, for Vegeta to finally overcome that defeat. It took a Senzu bean for Goku to overcome his defeat.

[@h0llyw00dhoward7]

No to mention the borrow energy of the Spirit Bomb Vegetable took on.

[@devilshooter126m8]

Great video I wish Oozaru was used more in the story. Good thing, SSJ 4 uses the Oozaru in its lore/design. 5:04- Red Hair Vegeta is Best Vegeta

[@coinsilver3]

Wonder if he dyed it with the blood of his enemies? 💀

[@STILLWILLPHOTO]

Vegeta has red hair, which is why trunks has purple hair. Red+blue=purple

[@richardh9828]

Born with God Ki confirmed!

[@richardalvarez1084]

Thank you for making this video Saiyan Scholar!

[@ChaoticConform]

I feel the kaioken is why gokus zenkai had him surpass vegeta on namek. Since it wrecks his body...they should have allowed vegeta to keep his tail. Would have been a power boost on par with kaioken

[@krodh9946]

Well he IS the Prince of all Saiyans. The same Saiyans whose potential Frieza was afraid of. The fact that Goku's zenkai boost + Kaioken + spirit bomb wasn't enough to stop him is not that surprising. And I'm saying this as a fan of kaioken Goku in this battle. A fan who loves it more than any Super Saiyan form that succeeded it.

[@candidosilva7755]

I think that after so many damage vegeta show us something is reserved ki its something else. God he survived kaio ken,plus using is energy to create the moon puting is energy in half the spirit bomb the ozaru gohan damn i tought by myself nobody can stop this guy. Vegeta is an amazing figher.

[@demarralrobinson2530]

Kinda like how Naruto clan have chakra reserves vegeta probably have natural reserves

[@Nice_Person7379]

Me (after seeing the thumbnail): “Oh its this random spec of hair!! I should have known!”

[@user-kl5zd2oe3e]

Wouldn't it be funny if the Wyald fight in Berserk was a shoutout to this one? You have our chiseled hero fight a monkeyman who transforms into a giant monkey where he gets a long appendage which is the source of his power sliced off. He is later reduced to crawling and gets defeated by another guy.

[@MisterSouji]

I dont think Oozaru or Kaiken are "cheating." The whole issue with this fight is that Vegeta's pride was wounded. To Vegeta, he lost the fight, and that breaks his world view.

[@mattakudesu]

I have a slightly different take. Vegeta most certainly won the fight fairly. However, Goku didn't choose to lose is oozaru potential, his tail was cut off as a child. Vegeta trained with his tail all of his life while knowing how the oozaru form works. It makes sense at this stage that Vegeta is way more powerful than Goku, but I wouldn't say that Goku using King Kai techniques is cheating. If anything, I think the kaioken and spirit bomb were almost consolation prizes to Goku after losing his tail. Kaioken could only really be done up to x4 eith massive bodily damage and the spirit bomb relies on the energy of the planet, while Vegeta gets a 10x multiplier and massive size while still being in control of his mind. I think the kai techniques were more than justified and not a cheat at all considering what Goku was up against and the potential he lost against his will.

[@christopheraramaki304]

They should revisit this in Super and have Vegeta achieve a new power by gaining his tail back and going back to his Prince of all Saiyans roots

[@gideonmele1556]

He does have the Ego now to make that work

[@IamJay02]

Yeah his hair is of big significance as clearly shown in the thumbnail

[@AllknowingUnknown]

I freaking love the budokai SSJ theme used in this video

[@user-qg2gy5lg4g]

The thing that confuses people is that Vegeta says he lost this battle. And in Vegeta's mind and definition of the fight he did. Oozaru isn't cheating, but having to go all out against Kakarot, a low class warrior, is what he considers the loss. It's a battle of pride.

[@wizzenberry]

Vageta had a training room since birth, too many variables

[@PRXZVM]

Bro u just COOOOOOOOKED!!!!!!!!!!

[@hcthecomedian1553]

Once again in Saiyan history the great ape form was not to win fights but to conquer or destroy planets even Vegeta himself pity himself for resorting into transforming to a Great Ape for one “low class” warrior in Goku

[@chesterdamolester6990]

How repugnant

[@Novad8836]

You 100% right!! Vegeta won this fight fair and square!!!

[@RancorSnp]

I really do not understand why this is even somethning people still argue about. So let's assume that I go and fight a guy in the streets, and he pummels me to the ground to the point that I can't even move and end up in full body cast after said fight. But after I got beat up 3 of my friends came back and managed to beat him up. Did I win the fight? I don't think I did. I think I lost the fight when I was crying in pain on the ground, the fact that my friends won the fight later - doesn't change the fact I lost.

[@baggmansosa6154]

Just imagine if goku didn’t have to give krillin and gohan that other senzu bean 😂😂 and got to use it when vegeta turned into a giant ape.😩😂

[@linkmaster253]

Even back in the day Vegeta was able to take more punishment than Goku. He survived the x4 Kamehameha and went into great ape, giving him much more durability. Goku was faster with the kaioken but he hurts himself when he uses it. I think it would be a lot closer if that were to happen. Goku vs Vegeta is always gonna be a good fight ❤

[@Aquilenne]

I don't imagine it would have made a huge difference. Vegeta would have still overpowered him, Yajirobe only managed to cut off his tail because of his gloating after he'd already won, so it would have just taken a little longer before we get back to where we did. Base vs base he's 3 times stronger, 30 times in Oozaru form, and a 4x multiplier was still destroying Goku's body at that point. The real point he'd need to have wanted to use it would be after Yajirobe cut off the tail, and then he'd probably have been able to overpower him.

[@baggmansosa6154]

@@Aquilenne how it wouldn’t make a difference goku woulda been healed up all the way and woulda crushed Vegeta definitely if he woulda just hurried up and cut his tail off Vegeta woulda been really weaked a lot

[@RancorSnp]

Goku needed to increase his power 3 times to almost match Vegeta, and 4 times to overpower him. Oozaru as stated by Vegeta himself - increases his power 10 times. Oozaru Vegeta is Ginyu level threat - Sensu bean would have changed nothing

[@baggmansosa6154]

@@RancorSnp goku woulda got a zenkai boost woulda been healed up more to actually to do more and be more focused then injured

[@goldinthefurnace]

4:35 Am I sensing a little Goku resentment?❤😂

[@SwordManRin-us1rp]

I Love Your Videos

[@constantinestambolitis321]

Probably Vegeta hasn’t fully gotten over his evil I hope because Vegeta to surprise Kakarot should regain his tail and tap into his evilness to fight Goku for all that happened and Goku is forced to use SSGSS UI against Vegeta due to his strength.

[@bradmiller7741]

Great video

[@chesterdamolester6990]

Vegeta wants a 1v1 battle where he and Goku both go full power. It hasn't happened yet.

[@HansDester]

That is because Goku doesn't want to lose a friend.

[@TK-ev]

That literally happened in their first fight. Vegeta won thr 1v1. He put Goku in the hospital so long that his friends almost died on Namek

[@chesterdamolester6990]

@@TK-ev how was their first fight 1v1 when gohan, yajirobe, and krillin were in the fight too?

[@RancorSnp]

@@chesterdamolester6990 they basically join the fight after Goku already lost

[@artistanthony1007]

I could be joking but his Widow's Peak likely is a source of his power.

[@anthonywatson1508]

Vegeta would've killed Goku if it weren't for Krillin, Gohan, and Yajirobe.

[@kaynwells6936]

Even the clown admitted he lost and couldn’t win. Read the manga. For him it’s not about the destination, it’s the journey. For vegeta it’s about the destination. It’s why they compliment and push each other further. “The wolf at the top isn’t as hungry as the wolf climbing the hill”. Sums up what dragon ball is about, constantly seeking challenges to improve and grow.

[@demarralrobinson2530]

True

[@alatus_knight]

Based

[@windows98alpha35]

To me I’ve always been confused on Vegeta’s stupid inferiority complex to Goku. Every time they fought in the past Vegeta ALWAYS wins and has surpassed Goku’s SS3 while being an enraged SS2. So why this guy was so obsessed with surpassing Goku never made sense to me.

[@nevadalotto560]

Goku is him

[@hennytopher]

Because even though he always manages to win against Kakarot, he still can't beat the enemies that Kakarot can beat.

[@nevadalotto560]

@@hennytopher Goku beat Vegeta Everytime to

[@hennytopher]

@@nevadalotto560 in all 1v1s, Vegeta won against Goku every time. The only ways he lost is because he isn't able to beat all of the Main Villains Kakarot has been able to beat (Frieza, Cell (by proxy), Buu, Hit, Jiren, Moro, Etc.)

[@MedicEne]

Cause Goku has always been stronger than him from the freiza saga to the buu saga, the only fight vegeta won was their first fight, and even then Goku (some lowclass clown) pushed him to his limit. In vegetas mind Goku (again this low class clown) surpassed his base form which is an outrage to vegeta. And from then on Goku has been much stronger until DBS super.

[@DaniG._.German]

To this day, Vegeta never lost to Goku.

[@slimmy478-6]

He never won anyways

[@DaniG._.German]

@@slimmy478-6 he won Saiyan Saga. Draw in Buu Saga. And won that sparring match they had.

[@slimmy478-6]

@@DaniG._.German he took an L in the saiyan saga then he resorted to oozaru

[@DaniG._.German]

@@slimmy478-6 is transforming cheating?

[@richardbean1707]

@@slimmy478-6 ....he stomped Goku, Krillin, Yajirobe, and beat Gohan before being taken out by gravity. There is no interpreting that fight as a loss to Goku.

[@josephjenkins3rd89]

Finally someone said it. I've heard tons of ppl say Vegeta lost to Goku when they first fought and that's just not the case. Vegeta actually beat everyone there but totally exhausted himself in the process. There was no cheating involved and he didn't get outside help.

[@sorcerousbeast8740]

Yep and even if Kakarot had his tail magically grow back, 8000 or 9000 X 10 is 80 or 90 000. So it wouldn’t matter. He can’t use Kaioken as a Great Ape. He can’t even use a Kamehameha as a Great Ape. Of course, Vegeta or Bebi Vegeta can. SUPER GALICK GUN!

[@kalevipoeg6916]

Goku fans may not like to hear this, but Goku DID lose that fight. What else could you call it, when he was completely out of commission and unable to move for half the fight, with every bone in his body broken, and had to have his friends jump in to save him? You can try to use excuses - but look: let's even suppose Goku had HIS tail too and went Oozaru. Wouldn't change the outcome - Oozaru has a 10x multiplier on base, and Goku was a bit over 8,000 in base while Vegeta was 18,000 - so Goku in Oozaru = 80,000 while Vegeta would tower over that at 180,000. ALSO, Vegeta can CONTROL himself in oozaru unlike Goku or Gohan, who become mindless apes. This means Vegeta as an oozaru can use ALL of his techniques he can in his base form - but Goku can't - so you can't pretend as if he'd kaioken in the oozaru form. SO, Oozaru vs Oozaru, Vegeta EASILY would win that. That's also true if the fought as oozarus at ANY POINT in history. So, what else? Let's suppose Vegeta DIDN'T have his tail. He'd STILL have won, and here's why: Vegeta got annoyed by Goku's kiaoken and went oozaru to teach him a lesson, not because he HAD to. Goku's body was TRASHED after kaioken x4 but Vegeta was still standing and able to fight - and in fact had SO much power to spare that he could form the orb that allows him to become an oozaru without a full moon. He even SAYS that takes a lot of energy to create - so he SPENT a lot of energy on that, which if he didn't have a tail he could have instead spent on pummeling a post-Kiaoken x4 Goku who could barely even move around. Goku didn't HAVE another kaioken in him, and given how Vegeta ALSO took a spirit bomb to the face, fought Gohan and Krillin, was crushed under oozaru Gohan, and STILL managed to get back up, even if Goku HAD one more kaioken x4 attack in him, Vegeta would have tanked that, too. Without oozaru, Vegeta would turn his full energy on Goku instead of spending it on becoming an oozaru. This ALSO means Goku wouldn't be able to shoot him in the eye, and instead his spirit bomb would get interrupted, just like before. Vegeta wouldn't give Goku the CHANCE to finish the spirit bomb. So in ANY scenario, Vegeta was ALWAYS going to win that fight. ONLY with the help of his friends was Vegeta able to be "beaten". In fact, if not for yajirobe, they'd ALL be dead. A sneak attack from a fat guy is the only reason they weren't all killed right there. Think about that. WIth no yajirobe, Vegeta kills them all. With no Gohan and Krillin and Yajirobe, Vegeta beats Goku to death, then destroys the earth since it'd no longer hold any value for him without the dragonballs, since Piccolo was dead. Goku DID momentarily surge past Vegeta's base form in kaioken x4, but at great cost, and it wasn't enough to win. It merely pissed him off. Even with a hack move like that, Goku was DESTINED to lose that fight. That's the POINT of the fight. Goku takes a loss but a victory is eked out with the help of his friends - it's that bond with others Goku has that allowed that, which Vegeta did not have until much later in the story, after becoming a good person. The POINT is that, and to build Vegeta up and demonstrate how powerful he is so that when FRIEZA shows up, the audience suddenly has to go "woah, Vegeta was THAT hard to fight, Goku barely even SURVIVED that, and this Frieza guy is dozes of times stronger than that even in his BASE FORM?!?!" - that fight with Goku basically set a strength measuring bar so that the events on Namek would have something to be compared to and you'd have a sense of immense power later, because if they're that much stronger than a guy who it took the whole Z squad to take down, they're REALLY strong.

[@alatus_knight]

Based db fan. The prince clearly won that fight and it's not even close

[@snow7728]

Vegeta himself wouldn't count the fight against Goku as a win. That's all that matters. Even when some people thinks he "Beat" Goku with the Majin powerup when he knocked him out while he was grabbing senzu beans. Vegeta doesn't count that as a win either, in fact he saw it as a humiliating loss because Goku was holding back a power that could of wiped the floor with him. I think its funny that people will apply "Win" or "Lose" to characters that would see the fight completely differently. From both their perspectives they both lost. Vegeta couldn't obtain immortality and was forced to escape earth with mortal wounds after being beaten back by a reject low class saiyan, his son and a few earthlings. From Goku's perspective he wasn't strong enough to beat Vegeta on his own and wants to improve so they can fight again later, however Goku is still happy that the earth was saved even if he couldn't do it on his own. A bittersweet victory. It doesn't matter who has what power up. Kaio-ken isn't a cheat, Oozaru isn't a cheat, spirit bomb isn't a cheat. Hell even having his friends back him up wasn't a cheat. Vegeta himself wouldn't think its unfair so why should you. Was it cheating that Vegeta warned Nappa that the destructo disk would cut his head off? no? Both sides knew what the fight was for, and there was no referee to dictate any rules. In fact Nappa relished the challenge of fighting multiple opponents and winning. Every technique, transformation, or allies you have were all tools to win the fight. There are no rules when you're fighting for your life. They know that better than anyone.

[@alatus_knight]

We're discussing who beat who. And it's clear vegeta beat goku, but lost the war

[@hakaishin_8266]

Vegeta wins this fight fair and square

[@nevadalotto560]

Vegeta lost goku beat him up with kaioken he lost the beam struggle he turned into a great ape and got his tail sliced like Vegeta never stood chance my guy Goku

[@h0llyw00dhoward7]

@@nevadalotto560you must of missed the part where Goku was left motionless when Vegeta crush his legs squeezed his body and was no longer able to fight. Goku didn’t cut his tail off, Goku didn’t even throw the Spirit Bomb at him. If anything Gohan defeated Vegeta when fell on top of him and even that was a draw because Gohan was able to fight anymore no more than Vegeta.

[@nevadalotto560]

@@h0llyw00dhoward7 Yo Vegeta was a great ape Goku was mainly folding vegeta

[@h0llyw00dhoward7]

@@nevadalotto560 with God trained attacks and Vegeta ate them. Goku use powers that drained himself the whole fight Vegeta used one technique and Goku starts running away lol. It ain’t no fun when the rabbit got the gun now is it? Lol

[@Darkside-bv2zh]

​@@h0llyw00dhoward7they never watched DBZ. No point in arguing with a troll my guy

[@TruBaus210]

All random but am I the only one who thought Fasha was Goku's mom....I mean she looks like Gohan and pan still

[@christopherjackson3332]

Head to head to the end, neither one of them beat the other. At least not Canon. There was always interference.

[@DaniG._.German]

Also, if the Oozaru is cheating, so is Ssj.

[@user-yt9ro7md2h]

Vegeta would’ve won that first fight if he didn’t lose his cool and go to his giant ape form. And he lost his cool cuz he couldn’t fathom how a low class saiyan could give him such a hard time. That stubbornness in his mindset cost him that fight.

[@user-zk6on4dc4k]

Bravo!! Well spoken. Vegeta rules!! Lol!

[@BigVEE]

AT willed it. Vegeta is undefeated against Goku. 4-0 in canon. 6-0 in Super. Sasuke? May well will 7-0.

[@BigVEE]

2:17 >attrition Not even that, really. Vegeta wasn't really weakened yet. Goku couldn't do higher multipliers anymore. His KKx2 would be it. That wasn't going to do well at all. This while he was tiring out (nearly dry on ki in addition to stamina) while in immense pain. Still, as you say, Vegeta just needed to finish the fight. Pre-fight, Goku stupidly explains to Krillin how KK works. Vegeta in the manga laments not being able to hear what was being said. Just knowing that this power was a temporary amp that he pays a price for and couldn't keep up would have been a difference maker. No need to weaken himself tremendously. 2:28 Yes, he asspulls that just after being blinded with Solar Flare, but not so much having shown the ability to gauge them (just detect them). 2:40 This is a move (Power Ball) Vegeta specifically says he didn't make and other elites could use. It is very odd he made it to last for 2h while consuming so much ki. He went from 18K down to levels the lessers could somewhat face off with like half-assing Nappa (sub-4K). It is a HUGE drop. He planned the arrival for the full moon, but by happenstance the tail of Gohan was around, the moon came out (and was seen) and Raditz yapped. Thus, Piccolo blew it up. Without that, Vegeta would have been 180K (rather than something like sub-40K). Even if his tail still got cut (him unwrapping it was insanely careless as he didn't at any other point), he wouldn't lose power from base. They would still be SoL. And the halved Spirit Bomb couldn't finish off this weakened Vegeta, so the full version wouldn't have worked on a healthy Nappa, I'd dare say. He would live (just badly hurt). This for the involuntary Earth only variant taking 10s (and ki from Goku to even pull in, which is something most pay no mind at all). NOTE: As for the form, Goku's fans are out here saying SS3 over SS2 is legit (and it is), but Oozaru over base (ignoring SKW) is no good. Even if you humor rules (where they don't exist), this is obviously a double standard. 3:20 >multiplier Magazines say that, but canon doesn't. Goku was only a bit more than tripled by SS1 against Yakon. With the gaining of SS1, people correctly recall KKx20 was only measuring up to 50% Frieza. They expect more than x40 to beat his 100%. Why does that have to be the case? Also, KMHM should have made the beam way stronger, so he should be needing a multiplier double what we're talking about. Know what makes peace with all this better (if using fanon)? Unlock just raised his base (and healed/refreshed him to some extent as he was out of ki and hurt before that, too). There isn't a reason to look at the writing and say SS1 is x50. None. I'd dare say even the minomer form (SS3) isn't more than Oozaru, which is stated as tenfold in canon. AT got rid of it and KK for a reason (too potent). 3:54 To trash everyone from Dodoria onward that isn't Frieza, yes. 4:05 >working hard Zenkai and SKW set aside (while ignoring Super adding Toronbo). 5:05 There isn't anything suggesting he worked hard, really. He's just naturally more gifted as a fighter in power and technique. 5:11 This is one of his more wild feats. Gohan got just enough handle on Oozaru on this second try to (with guidance) focus on his enemy. Not totally berserk. Still KO'd when reverted. Vegeta was able to be himself fully including speech (though no showing off of ki techniques beyond the generic ki mouth attack **amusingly, Goku didn't ever have that, was only ever berserk and his Great Ape was half the size of others**). Reverting him didn't knock him out. Tails not coming back was just writing working against him. He doesn't even get SKW, Guru, Mystic, etc. to make-up for it. Instead a meager 5% buff from a warlock he tricks. 5:25 He didn't win hard enough, yes. 5:30 KO'd Krillin, but later loses to him when caught retreating. TKO'd Yajirobe. KO'd Gohan twice. Goku was already defeated when requesting the salty runback on a promise never to be kept with his 'best friend' (which is a lie all its own). 5:56 The Budokai doesn't even have rules against it. It was self-imposed among friends, but not official to the venue. Thus the Goten and Trunks situation. Real battle is war. Purple taught this to Goku who saw it in Krillin's head as Vegeta taught this lesson to all present against Guldo. 6:10 Vegeta didn't get a handout to compensate for his tail being stolen that was specific to him. He shared zenkai (with Goku accidentally using them to get huge gains **gravity hardly mattered** via self-harm that Vegeta didn't believe would work). Gohan got Guru to make-up for it. Technically, Goku was paid in advance (SKW). When KK was taken away? SS1 was made to take an L with strain and drain, but it doesn't matter since FPSS doesn't just fix it, the form gives a huge amp for no reason. It should just allow KK, but that's the apology. It won't, so he just gets power for no real reason (where there was something to USS's power weighting muscle pumping).

[@alatus_knight]

Only 3

[@BigVEE]

@@alatus_knight >only 3 Before Buu Saga.

[@Sjono]

Kaio what?

[@JobeStroud]

I lost $500. I was stolen.

[@blak238]

Why didn’t Gokus kamehameha kill vegeta. Vegeta was around 18k I think and when Goku used the kamehameha he was 24k I think. Vegeta should have died considering on namek vegeta one shot that qui guy and he had the same power level as to vegeta on earth

[@alatus_knight]

Saiyans are just built different. Vegeta was too angry to die and anger increased his durability, which is natural for Saiyans

[@r.mauricio.contreras]

No

[@justinweber4977]

I would argue that the Kaio-Ken isn't actually "Unnatural", in the manga (I think?) or in a particular translation at any rate, Vegeta says he's seen techniques like that before. The difference here seems to be that in Goku's case, he can push his base power and this multiplier enough to actually threaten Vegeta.

[@Telarius]

Nothing you just said means it's not unnatural. I'll rephrase for you. If Goku had a gun attached to his arm. And used it. Would it be natural or unnatural to saiyan biology? Clearly not. By your logic. As long as Vegeta has seen other warriors with it. Its natural. The point: Just because someone has seen/learned/used something dosent make its use by others natural. Saiyans cannot learn thr Kaioken without instruction. Thus unnatural. Saiyans arms don't grow guns in them. Thus unnatural. Natural = Available to the person/Warrior without any outside interference. Only ones own growth. Kaioken = l a technique impossible to learn unless taught. But the real impossibility is that you must die, be given a body, run snakewake without falling into hell or being eaten by snake, and pull off a joke to be taught by a lesser god(kaio).

[@justinweber4977]

@@Telarius And my thoughts process is that it's a ki based ability, ki is a natural and available ability to any organic lifeform in the setting. Vegeta has seen a similar enough technique to the Kaio-Ken in his life that he scoffs at the idea it's a threat to him. This means a functionally similar, possibly identical, technique exists and is available to learn without having to die and be trained by a god to perform it.

[@Telarius]

@@justinweber4977 Ki-based abiltiies are not ki themselves, and arnt natural. Just as easily as you at theorizing "other lifeforms have pseudo kaioken" More or less, you can also say, they might of learned it despite it being unnatural as well. Either way, what he's references in general is a strength multiplier, for Vegeta at this time, even hiding power levels, sensing KI, raising powerlevel, is strange. to him and Nappa/Raditz, normally people stay at their natural Powerlevel and dont increase/powerup.

[@justinweber4977]

@@Telarius Fair enough. I was working from the logic that if "Focusing ki for attacks like the Kamehameha" can raise your power level (which Raditz does state is happening during the fight... Unless that was a dub addition) than the Kaio-Ken should still count as just doing that... But better.

[@zenkairanger]

Fun Fact, Scholars: Vegeta has never lost to Goku. Goku was cooked after his Kaioken Kamehameha. He transformed because he couldn’t sense that Goku was drained. It took everyone to put him down. Majin Vegeta never lost to Goku. It’s not Vegeta’s fault Goku was holding back, that was Goku’s choice. An L is an L on the battlefield and if you hold back then it’s your own fault.

[@ZezoFleck]

My guy dies, learns a technique and, by using it, it's called a cheat code 😂 Every technique up to this point raises their power levels. Using the Kamehameha or makankosappo made their power level go up. Are those cheat codes? Yeah, obviously Vegeta was stronger. He's the main villain in this ark. And yeah, he would've won if it wasn't for the other Z fighters. But kaioken? A cheat code? Nonsense. Oozaru would be a cheat code too. Not because it's natural but because, if Goku knew why he had a tail and what it meant to have that cut off so many times, he would probably be more careful with it.

[@alatus_knight]

Neither was cheating. Vegeta beat that low class clown fare and square

[@protosoul14]

Its too bad dbz kakarot looks boring as hell with the open world rpg aspect because its a beautiful game

[@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336]

First

[@nevadalotto560]

He beat vegeta because he was stronger and had the Number advantage when they jumped vegeta

[@BigVEE]

I don’t know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku.

[@nevadalotto560]

@@BigVEE Wrong Goku beat Vegeta in the Saiyan saga Majin Vegeta couldn't do nothing against goku And Goku was still holding back Vegeta never Goku that is just a myth Goku wins Everytime and that is how it is know your dragon ball

[@BigVEE]

...said Nevada-tan forgetting to finish his thought with "sike". >beat by getting KO'd >both times You forget the other KO (and the TKO). Thus, 4-0 in canon. >randomly capitalized "And" Your country of origin? South of the United States. >holding back It wouldn't matter were it true. He would lose with his full power as he lost in canon. Shoulda, coulda, woulda? Didn't. He lost. Vegeta won. "SS3"? Wouldn't have saved him even allowing for it retroactively. Big facts. >couldn't do anything Except win. He can't help it. AT wills this. >run-on Kakajobber should have, yes.

[@nevadalotto560]

@@BigVEEMajin Vegeta KOing Goku is really all he can do Goku there is never a time where Vegeta beat Goku Goku beat Vegeta in the Saiyan saga until he went great ape and Goku was still holding his own Vegeta will never beat Goku show me a video where Vegeta beat Goku exactly cause it never happened Goku is better

[@BigVEE]

@@nevadalotto560 >all he can do is win Yeah, I said that already. >never a time he won except the end of each fight True. >beat until So he didn't win, but instead lose. Got it. >still holding his own >running scared >blinding >hiding >KO'd Hmmm, yes. I see. >will never not beat Goku Pretty sure I said this already, too. >show you a video Why would I need secondary continuity, adaptation material? Are you an anime-only speaking out of turn? Is that what's happening here? Even then, Toei didn't dare alter the reality. Gokek loses there, too. All four times (ignoring Super adding more L's). Frankly, I advise sticking to canon. Let's start with how things went one fight at a time, eh? Shall we begin with 1-0 in full detail as per the source material? >still can't finish his thoughts This while Vegeta always finishes the fights clutching another dub. Funny.

[@HansDester]

Oh great now all the Vegeta copers are going to come out of the woodwork. At the end of the day Goku won, thats that. Cope all you want, Vegeta lost straight up. Ran with his tail tucked between his legs.

[@snow7728]

Lack of tail but yes 😂

[@alatus_knight]

Keep coping lil bro

[@HansDester]

I would like to say that you can cope all you want. Ask Vegeta who won this fight. All your crying means jack all whne we all know Vegeta knows he lost.

[@TK-ev]

He didnt lose to Goku, he personally hospitalized Goku. Denying that fact is a delusion.

[@hcthecomedian1553]

Now Goku betraying his Saiyan powers I wouldn’t say that he train and earn the powers he got training with King Kai was it enough to beat Vegeta Noo but he won a round through the war between the 2. I have to respectfully disagree on this Take

[@noahgettheark]

But it took Godly techniques and everyone jumping Vegeta for Goku to win. Vegeta was HIM. If they all didn't jump him and Goku didn't have the ass-pull Kaio Ken, he definitely would've lost quick. Vegeta still ran his fade, even though everyone jumped him, Vegeta still technically won that fight.

[@hcthecomedian1553]

Vegeta won no doubt but Vegeta still lost due to the fact the Goku the gangsta he is spared vegeta behind but u right tho

[@alatus_knight]

Cope

[@newkiller4457]

Why is bro still arguing about this 😭😭😭😭

[@superballsfour20]

Kakarot has never beaten Vegeta

[@alatus_knight]

Real