Why was Joseph Smith put in Carthage Jail and “martyred”?

Join us as Lindsay Hansen Park and Bryan Buchanan explain why Joseph Smith was arrested and martyred. This clip comes from Episode 1815.
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[@mormonstories]

Watch the entire episode on our KZbin channel! Episode 1815.

[@merricat3025]

I wouldn't call forgeries and breaking the law mistakes. I would call them deliberate crimes

[@saa8488]

same with "marrying" 14 year olds living in his house, as his foster/adoptive daughter, and fucking them behind his wife Emma's back. That's not godly...that's evil.

[@3thingsfishing427]

JS became the secret combination that he preached against.

[@toxicfem69]

reactionaries and projection, name a more iconic duo

[@tawnyachristensen7310]

Great clip, glad you shared it again!

[@whatsup3270]

Martyred for what? Messing with wives, daughters, land deals, money are not martyrdom.

[@pauljongen3022]

... and causing social turmoil. 😮

[@jimcowens]

as a never mormon, I can say pretty confidently the information is widely available to show the truth of how joseph smith died. makes me sick what he did, and how predatory he was to women and the vulnerable.

[@styphlynne8253]

Born and raised mormon in Utah we were conditioned early on that these were lies about Joe. We were conditioned by the bs Book of Mormon vs Bible, we were conditioned of the later days & fear mongering (Latter Day Saints) Amongst so much we were also conditioned (in the temples)obediance to many other laws. Terrifying to leave but Im so glad I got out of LD$

[@PutingPinoy]

I wish y’all had mentioned how JS and his people were armed and didn’t go quietly.

[@debbiedonovan8362]

Very true.,.. any dad or husband would be pissed with js behaviors

[@amykru]

Thank you for the excerpt, it's great to get a lot of information quickly. Ernest Renan, 19th century religionist, described mormonism as silly and absurd.

[@randoms7113]

The way everyone was after Smith and how he died, never added up right with me. All church videos gloss over the mob parts. The use of pistols by Smith. Hyrum shot dead in the face but has time to say “I am a dead man” the mob didn’t go after anyone else, suggest it was either an inside job or not an attack on Mormons but rather Smith.

[@codyrunsfast1]

I have to say I stopped watching/listening to Mormon stories episodes because of the sheer length of each episode. I know that's the goal is to have quality, long episodes, but it just became hard to fit into my listening schedule. These short highlights are welcome!

[@codyrunsfast1]

@@luisacavazzola9723 there's only so much time in a day. I try to read 100 books/year, and I have other podcasts tonl listen to as well. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@haroldwhite5761]

Is it called martyrdom if the one killed had a gun in his hand?

[@3thingsfishing427]

And shot 3 people.

[@AbbieOates]

If it was an M10x, it’s martyrdom, anything else… likely not.

[@shirleybleazard8049]

Yes

[@TheShodan92]

No

[@hardwork8395]

No, unless it’s an automatic, clearly the only spiritual type of gun out there in 2nd amendment loving America.

[@rayfann7860]

Please don't use the word "martyr". He wasn't.

[@cmr4622]

What are the qualifiers/disqualifiers?

[@davidbeazley1958]

@@cmr4622in my opinion, he wasn’t a martyr because he was from the start, a con man. He didn’t die “for his faith”. He died trying to escape his consequences. But his followers would regard him as one, regardless.

[@hardwork8395]

A good case was made years ago in a book I read that this was a politically motivated assassination: “Junius And Joseph: Presidential Politics and the Assassination of the First Mormon Prophet”

[@cmr4622]

@@davidbeazley1958 fair point and I can understand that angle. For me, regardless if I believe he was a con man or others (or himself) believed he was prophet, it satisfies the definition of a "martyr".

[@hardwork8395]

@@cmr4622how so?

[@Fromage4972]

I loved this entire episode when I watched it. The other side of the story.

[@fredflintstone8048]

Part of the other side any way.. There's still more to it that was soft peddled, stepped over.

[@franklinanderson9687]

Megalomania is one heck of a drug!

[@jeremyfirth]

He also swore Hyrum to an oath to avenge his death the night before this all went down. This is right in the History of the Church

[@starrbeatlesqueen]

I didn't know about the history that Joseph Smith was running for president before his death until watching this video.

[@rosemariebennett7213]

The destroying of the printing press is what really causes the problem. Governor Ford could not condone it. However, Governor Ford turned his back on Emma and Joseph. He was supposed to go to Carthage and get him and Hyrum out. He did not do that. He turned his back on Emma . Polygamy was the underpinning. But he was also being charged with treason , which is the more important reason for his imprisonment. Joseph was not always in Nauvoo before his death. Emma ran most of that town . She had a way with all people that put them at ease. The saints were of course already split. Those who knew about Joseph's lies and those who did not. Unfortunately, Emma was the one who suffered most and the children. From what I read in the book on Emma's life , Joseph was trying to stop polygamy for her sake , but it did not happen. . For all Emma went through,she still loved him. How, I'll never know. She did however threaten to divorce him over the plural wives,but that did not happen. She stayed with him. After his death, it was still very hard for the Mormons to stay there and that's where good old Brigham Young started to order them out to leave . The chaos the saints endured cannot be overlooked or forgotten.. Emma is my hero ...

[@jorgitosalazar38]

What the book?? About Emma's life?

[@rosemariebennett7213]

@@jorgitosalazar38 it is called Mormon Enigma Emma Hale Smith. I do not know if it is still in print. I have had for many years.

[@pameladee]

The book is available on Amazon

[@bobbylon9108]

LHP is such an awesome example of how a god would like one of his daughters to be. Strong, bold, highly intelligent. Exactly the type of woman which contemporary Christianity fears. TBM women should realize they’re looking forward to an eternity of insignificance

[@RyannJoyRule]

I wish the laypeople knew 🥲😭

[@heatherince4242]

Hey John! Have you seen the new trailer for the Mormon missionary horror film by A24? It’s called Heretic.

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

He was murdered, not martyred.

[@Sirwalter2008]

I hear my father... "all lies" Omg...

[@TheGoodShepard31]

“Prophesy SMITH” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@nickjones2541]

What a great segment. This puts so many pieces together. Thank y’all

[@ivelearnedalot8354]

I want to watch the whole episode what one is it ?

[@Lil_Muscle_killa]

Episode 1815

[@finnjacobsen684]

There was something about fake money also? Mormon money that became worthless?

[@Lynette-sv3ti]

Do u know what I find absolutely hilarious? The church purchased the jail house door lmfao with Kirtland Temple. As on earth, so be it in the heavens😊 the freaking irony of it all

[@Hallahanify]

I still dont understand how a mob gathered and broke into the jail

[@whatsup3270]

They had to fit on a small staircase.

[@Hallahanify]

@@whatsup3270 what? Lol

[@hardwork8395]

I think you can hardly call it a mob or a jail. Asked and answered.

[@whatsup3270]

@@Hallahanify 6 people could comfortably fit it is unlikely more than 9 people were on the second floor and stairs combined.

[@user-rx9oy1cn4f]

Anyone in the mob a husband of one of JS already married wife’s

[@AlbertJLouie]

MORMONS, THERE IS NO BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD. Scripture is very clear in stating that this life is the only chance we get. Once we die, our fate is sealed: HEBREWS 9:27 "It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgement." There are no "second chances" after death.

[@noegarridocardenas7962]

Hummm…I think you’re barking to the choir or preaching to the wrong tree. Or how was it? 🤔

[@annieonpaper]

Mormons think the bible is incomplete and the book of mormon is direct word of god. Sooo good luck with that

[@darrinhawkins8087]

Yet 1 Corinthians 15:29 says Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? Clearly a doctrine and practice of the early Church.

[@AlbertJLouie]

@@darrinhawkins8087 Wrong. I Corinthians 15 The entire chapter talks about Jesus. You picked out ONE verse, twisted into baptism for the dead. Plus, there's nothing in that verse or anywhere in the Bible that teaches Baptism for the dead.

[@stillsmashin]

"It is apportioned to men once to die, after then this judgement" It's strictly speaking on death, not repentance. 1 Peter 4:6 "to this even to the dead the gospel was proclaimed so that they might be judged indeed according to men in flesh, they might live however according to God in spirit"

[@monyetgoblog7038]

Heretic not myrter

[@pauljongen3022]

Civic sense. Period.

[@williamwood3290]

😊

[@brittanyjenkins7094]

King Joseph Smith

[@augustoarsenio9032]

😮it is very doubtful that this so call prophet of God was some how kosher😅😅

[@AlbertJLouie]

When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24: 23-24 "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..." Mormons teach that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God. So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in? A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan. OR B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.

[@choosetolivefree]

Hate to break it to you, the Bible was written by some ancient people who had little to no understanding of the world and wrote in very symbolic fashion, not literal like we do today. That you think the Bible is some "word of god" is a joke. There is absolutely no reason to think the Bible is anything but a human construct, designed to attempt to explain a massive and complex universe

[@joshuajohansen4066]

This exert about Joseph Smith is given with a today lense of view and not for the times. Many would also believe negative views about George Washington if you take a today lens. These people also can’t be farther from the facts. You need to read “The Saints” book to understand. I’m not going to learn about the Catholic, baptists or any denomination from anti authors or anti literature.

[@allanjeffrey6666]

Joshua, it's important to understand that LDS church history - and how much of it was known/understood by church members - pre-internet was controlled by church leaders. For obvious reasons ( to build faith and loyalty etc ) the 'bad bits' were left out by traditional LDS historians. Apostle Boyd Packer addressed an LDS historians' conference and told them, "Not everything that is true is helpful. Your job is to build faith among the church members." In other words, they should leave out the bad parts ( non faith promoting bits ). Writings that included 'warts and all ' accounts have traditionally been branded ' Anti-Mormon Literature ' by church leaders ... i.e. inspired by Satan and to be avoided by all loyal LDS. I have personally found that this is not always true, at all. . In this internet age - when a much fuller, wider picture of real church history is readily available, and can't be kept from the membership, a much more accurate picture of church history is available to sincere searchers for truth ...people like me, a lifelong LDS - served mission, temple endowed, accepted every calling etc. Many well-meaning authors of church books have written interesting books and left out the bits that didn't promote faith unconditionally. When the guy who presided over the publication of the recent church history essays was asked, at a press conference, if any negative parts of the history have been left out, he said that he hadn't personally done that but had heard that certain historians involved in the program had done so. With this in mind, I will have another look at " The Saints' to see what I think. You shouldn't be afraid to discover new / fuller truth, IMO ...even if it causes you to rethink your views.

[@darrinhawkins8087]

​​@@allanjeffrey6666or you study the scriptures and take in the warnings of how the Korihors work in Alma 30....

[@bartonbagnes4605]

That's an easy question to answer. The same reason Joseph son of Israel was, and Jesus Christ was. Mathew 5: 11-12 "Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, AND SAY ALL MANNER OF EVIL AGAINST YOU FALSELY, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so persecuted they the Prophets that were before you." Joseph Smith Jr. fulfilled this prophecy in spades.

[@TheSaintelias]

Can’t this same verse be used to describe any hated person? Hitler? Jones town? WACO leader? They must be fulfilling the verse as well. Lol

[@bartonbagnes4605]

@@TheSaintelias You forgot the qualifier FALSELY. All of those you mentioned definitely weren't accused falsely.

[@TheSaintelias]

@@bartonbagnes4605 So using the verse for any one other than the one you believe in is false? This is why I stopped believing in scripture. Centuries of everyone cherry picking who when and what each verse can mean and relate to only shows how made up it all is. A 100 years from now people will be using the same scripture to call out another divinity. We all want something to believe in.

[@bartonbagnes4605]

@@TheSaintelias This points out the obvious. The better the person, the more they will be hated by others, and will be attacked in any way, especially being falsely accused of doing what their accusers are guilty of.

[@TheSaintelias]

@@bartonbagnes4605 I think we disagree on who is “the better person..”. Persecution complexes are what many group leaders use to justify staying loyal. “They” are out to get us. “I must be correct because otherwise they wouldn’t “persecute” me.” Millions of Christians would say you’re FALSELY applying the scripture to JS. All these scriptures are subjective. The church is saying it is persecuted because it wants to violate every building code to put a 40000 sq foot temple in a dark skies residential area. That’s not persecution. It’s difference of opinion.

[@amochswohntet99]

He was persecuted for the political power that the religion he founded conferred to him, not for the religion itself. He was no less legitimate a leader than anyone else during the Westward expansion. He's an innocent man today, and was, even back then.

[@donnavaughn9409]

All of the reasons and the court dockets are online of jailings, he'd get out and then go back in on trumped up charges, what a awful time of it he had. And if you actually want to learn these reason, the Last place to go is this silly nonsense podcast. Some of most ignorant silly people come here. I am sure most of them grew up in the LDS church, they survived with their parents and siblings testimonies, but never developed their own and are easily swayed. Some left to go to a Christian church, they never understood the NT stating the the LDS church doesn't teach Jesus, actually they do, and it is staggering to see how many people read that CES letter and don't even understand some of the statements are not correct. Also here's a good one, when they feel they must leave, they actually give the Lord one more chance to show them the church is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and because they don't get some instant answer, that means there is no answers. Then what is really sad, many of them end up with some huge emotional baggage, they must go to counseling/therapy, go on medication. The Holy Ghost bonds with your own spirit when He teaches you things, so it's a tearing away to try to get rid of those things, and it causes distress down in your soul, of which you are not even aware of at times. And always have a frowny face if anything about this subject is brought up at work, by a relative or friend. Their heart because like granite and common sense is replaced by the nothingness brought forth by the adversary who has been sophisticated in giving out reasons to abandon what they grew up with and maybe had part of a testimony, yep, even the most stalwart people have gone into a spiritual darkness. And they will never debate the BOM because it is so sophisticated that they can't do it, that's one thing that even non-LDS bible scholars will admit that they do not know where this book came from. It's so intricate and tied together that no one can do it, they try. I'm not sure what will bring them back. As their children enter school, they will hear all kinds of nonsense about the LDS faith and never taught at home, parents will say, I don't want my child brain washed and I say, okay, fine, you can brainwash them yourself with your atheism, and that way, they can't choose because they have nothing to go by, except the hearsay from friends and school mates.

[@Fromage4972]

Yep, you nailed us. So many of us are just ignorant silly people who come here. But not you, you're not ignorant or silly at all.

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

It's still weird to me to read something where someone is nearly 100% wrong, but obviously believes the BS 100%. But, you've done it again. I debate regarding the Book of Mormon all the time. You've not a clue what you're talking about.

[@Fromage4972]

"non-LDS bible scholars will admit that they do not know where this book came from." What absolute rubbish. Dan McClellan is an LDS Bible scholar, you can see his interview on this same "silly" podcast, he states that the Book of Mormon is clearly a 19th century creation by Joseph Smith.

[@BuggMann91]

How very Christ-like of you to come and insult people that don't believe the same things you do

[@darrenlawson4909]

You aren't the slightest bit silly or ignorant......you are delusional.