Why Was Martin Harris Cut Off from the Church? (Knowhy

[@kentbartschi8091]

I have loved studying about the life of Martin Harris. If it were not for Martin, it would have been much harder for the church to have grown. Martin Harris mortgaged 3000 acres so the first 5000 copies of the Book of Mormon could be published. I stand all amazed at the amount of faith and the level of sacrifice that was given in order to bring about what the Lord said was a Marvelous work and a wonder. It is nothing short of miraculous to me.

[@happylatter-daysaint3503]

It would be so easy for us to judge Martin Harris, early pioneers, & people today who leave the church. The truth is, it is not our place to judge. Let us learn from their mistakes & then give them GRACE!!! We have no idea the opposition they faced in the past or the opposition people face on a personal level. Let us love one another as Jesus taught. 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜

[@tigergreg8]

It makes you wonder if it was something meant to happen for a reason.

[@runner8632]

Amen. I totally agree. He did not fight against the church. We don't know what made him frustrated. It's not unhealthy to step away for a moment to cool down the tension.

[@happylatter-daysaint3503]

@@runner8632 Yes, I agree. And to have seen great miracles & manifestations that we ourselves cannot comprehend must have been so overwhelming! 💙🙏💙

[@happylatter-daysaint3503]

@@tigergreg8 Yes. We have our free agency, but we know that God has been working with imperfect people from the very beginning. 😇😇😇

[@Gasp7000]

@@happylatter-daysaint3503 : Christ is bringingHis entire Work to pass with 100% all imperfect people, except for three, the members of the Godhood. He was not fighting against the Church. It’s interesting, though, the early temptations of thought with some to assume there are “higher” positions in the Church, or assuming rights based on blood or birth. That’s what is amiss with royalty. We have been taught about that, but the Church was new then, and those things were still being learned, such as how a calling works. On my mission overseas, there was a sister who would get angry if they tried to move her on into other callings or call anyone else to her present calling. She just thought it was for life. Gradual learning is still what we are going through, and we are still being prepared for things to come that we are completely unfamiliar currently. Some members struggle with tweaks, but why? We are continually being nurtured by the Lord.

[@StompMom5]

They faced non stop turmoil for so many years, that can wear one down. I could never judge anyone from that time because I wasn't there and I'm not sure I would've followed. I think I would've been one of those who stayed faithful to the end but maybe without following place to place every time they had to leave. But I don't know, maybe I would have??. We're all in our time frame for a reason. I will always love and respect those early men for what they went through regardless of their choices.... They still got the work done and it's still spreading. If the book of Mormon wasn't true it would've faded away looooong time ago

[@kelaarin]

The way things are going, you'll get the chance. Build that testimony!

[@StompMom5]

@@kelaarin lol I actually have a VERY strong testimony and can't be moved 👌. I guess my comment was a little confusing😅. I was saying back in pioneer days I'm not sure I would've been strong enough to endure what they did which is why I don't judge those people from that time period. Maybe that'll make more sense 🤔?

[@StompMom5]

@@richardholmes7199 Definitely. If the book of Mormon was fake that thing would have died out hundreds of years ago with Joseph Smith. No fake book can stand the test of time... that alone is evidence. I find it funny when people try and state how fake the book is and how fake Joseph Smith was without an ounce of evidence beyond what they've read or been told from other people who also have no proof. We have proof, the book is still very much alive and has changed the world. No fake book can do that and still be around

[@chubbuck35]

@@richardholmes7199 That is some serious mental gymnastics my friend. I’m working up a sweat just thinking of how many common sense answers you had to suspend to reach those conclusions. “Jospeh was right the Egyptologist are wrong”. I guess if you want to believe in conclusion enough it’s possible even in the face of smoking gun evidence to the contrary.

[@youhaveinfinitevalue5755]

There is more. It’s difficult for most in the church to accept truth even today. So Martin had even more difficulty with certain ideas at that time. Most of us would choke on the things Martin knew. I surely don’t blame him for running into difficulties.

[@briguy9915]

Can't wait to hear the next video about Martin Harris.

[@MarleeCraig]

I am thankful for these early witnesses. Despite the comings and goings, they stood by their testimonies of the BOM ❤

[@chubbuck35]

I had a few questions about Martin Harris myself that weren't addressed in the video, that I wrestled with. 1) Why did Martin Harris want to make money off selling the Book of Mormon and could that have influenced his motives for promoting his witness of it? 2) why did Harris join the shakers and declare repeatedly that he had as much evidence for the Shaker book as he does the Book of Mormon, the Shaker book being brought about in a similar manner as the BOM, with 8 witnesses, a common method of "validating" fraudulent manuscripts and treasures during the early 1800's? 3) Why did God (through Joseph Smith) find it necessary to tell Harris the exact words he should use "I have seen the things which the Lord hath shown unto Joseph Smith Jun., and I know of a surety that they are true, for I have seen them.", and why did God (through Joseph Smith) find it necessary to tell Martin Harris "But if he deny this he will break the covenant which he has before covenanted with me, and behold, he is condemned.". for me personally, if God himself was threatening me w/ condemnation if I didn't agree to the statement, that could be a power undue influence on my thinking. Also, if Harris did in fact see the plates, why was coercion from God even necessary to make him agree to what he saw? I know if I saw the things he claimed, there would be no fear tactic necessary to get me to agree to the claim. These three questions led me to believe there are too many holes in Harris testimony for it to be reliable. I respect all of you who have concluded otherwise, I'm just sharing my personal thoughts. The reason I felt compelled to share this is not because I'm angry or on some sort of mission to smite you, it was just a powerful part of my own spiritual development to come to terms with these things in my life and I wanted to pass on my experience. God bless.

[@davidknecht]

I don't know the answers for sure to your questions, but just a few thoughts which may not be worth much. On the selling copies of the BoM to make money, perhaps it was due to Martin putting so much money into that project and his wife not being happy about it. Maybe he was looking for a way to recoup that before giving them away. I don't know much about your Shaker question, but there are much better ways of validating Hebrew manuscripts now, like wordprinting, Manassehite Scribal tracing of inclusios, marismas, and other Hebraisms, etc. all found in the book. So the Shaker question doesn't bother me any. The BoM really is an ancient Hebrew document. It really doesn't take much research to prove that, just a little effort. In the BoM, (3Ne. 11) the Savior instructed those Nehpites that felt his hands and feet to bear record of him because they knew of assurety who he was. It doesn't say He gave them the exact language to use but they were commanded by Him none the less. After that experience you would not think they would need to be commanded, but they were. The O&C of the MP (D&C 84) :threatens" all MP's holders with no forgiveness of sins ever if that is broken. Perhaps the Lord is just driving home the point: You don't be that guy. I'd guess there are other examples, like maybe Revelations??? That probably doesn't help much, but a few off-the-cuff thoughts. Best of luck with your seeking.

[@Redsweater-r1n]

I think sometimes we put our own constructions on God's words. I have come to see these types of sayings that you call "coercion" as a statement of fact like you would see in a contract. I think it is like a statement of action-consequence. Part of the process is having a thorough understanding of what you are facing and the consequences of your positive or negative reactions. The Almighty God warning you about the negative consequences of negative actions can only be seen as coercion if we superimpose a mortal personality into his communications.

[@atheistapostate7019]

Martin Harris was a religious nut who saw Jesus/evil spirits every where he went. Before hooking up with Smith he had belonged to at least 8-10 other faiths and a few after leaving. Not only did he accept the Quacker scriptures as legit, he believed in others as well. Harris was not stable on the religious side and personally I think he realized he was being taken by Smith and his best bets were to at least cash out on it and walk away, but he just kept getting conned even further.

[@kimberlytousley3450]

❤️

[@TubeFlexMedia]

Lincoln Hoppe