Did Joseph Smith steal the temple endowment from Freemasonry? Ep. 57

[@shotzybrownkiddos9892]

I’ve got to say I’m really impressed that y’all have a vid about (almost) every topic addressed in the CES letter/gospel topic essays. Most true believing LDS get offended or shy away or deny when these things come up. For me it was just too many things when put all together... my shelf is shattered .I respect the apologist work yall are doing and enjoy the content.

[@tommydetmer3815]

I agree, their content is very enjoyable and easy to understand. :) You seem like perhaps part of you desires to have a genuine testimony of the gospel, and the good news(pun intended) is that you still can! My friend, I understand we live in a nuanced and complicated world, I really do. Our understandings all mature as we get older, and so to does our understanding of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ need to be mature, just as Paul said, 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." I think personally we need to realize, all of us members, that our faith and revelations are about the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the eternal doctrines of Christ that has been revealed and taught to us by God through ordained, living and breathing apostles and prophets, and not about the cartoon images of the gospel we knew as children. In other words, the only truly perfect man who ever walked this earth and walked perfectly on water was Jesus Christ, the Son of God. But by looking on Christ Jesus, even Simon Peter, a man who knew well the dangers of stormy seas as a fisherman of Galilee, walked out upon the stormy sea himself towards Christ, and only fell when he took his eyes physically and spiritually off of the one who empowered him in the first place. So too must we put our eyes back onto Christ and trust His every word in His scriptures, to gain again that power of God to walk more perfectly upon the stormy seas of this life, and gain that testimony of His Restored Gospel, even stronger than ever before, never to be burned out or drawn cold so long as we keep our eyes of our understanding focused solely on Jesus Christ and His Restored Gospel, and not on the things that seem like they are too much to handle mentally yet yield no power compared to the convincing power of the Holy Spirit. Get back in the Chapel, speak to those who have faith and a real and strong testimony, read the Book of Mormon and all the scriptures, listen to President Russell M. Nelson, go to the Temple. I promise, as someone who does these things, it does yield the convincing power and revelation of God and His son Jesus Christ through the Spirit of God into my life, full stop. My Spiritual eyes are opened, and in more ways than you can imagine, meaning more than just metaphorically. But these all come by faith and personal revelation, which if genuine, lead to transforming action in our daily lives. I wish you the very best, in ordinary, every day life, and this Holiday season. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen. :).

[@davidsnell2605]

The CES Letter is certainly a cleverly designed example of what is called the "Gish Gallop" technique, in which the author simply attempts to overwhelm the senses with so much negative information (regardless of the strength or veracity of the information) that shelves crumble just due to the sheer mass of the arguments made. I find it very manipulative and intentionally deceptive, but it also does a good job at pointing out many aspects of our faith that we need to start teaching much more thoroughly, and it brings up some important questions that deserve to be addressed. That said, I certainly respect your beliefs and opinions on the matter. I understand the distress you must have gone through as your shelf shattered, and I'm sorry you went through that. If you ever feel like reconstructing that shelf feel free to contact me personally on Facebook and we can chat! All the best.

[@josephsorg]

@@davidsnell2605 The CES letter raises legitimate concerns and issues with the churches truth narrative. The reason there is so many issues that "overwhelm the senses" shows the magnitude of the problem that the church has with their truth claims. They have whitewashed their history and attempted to hide the evolution of their theology for years. They can no longer claim these issues are anti Mormon lies.

[@davidsnell2605]

@@josephsorg I may not use the same wording as you in my analysis, but in some ways I do agree. As I mentioned in my previous comment, "[the Letter] does a good job at pointing out many aspects of our faith that we need to start teaching much more thoroughly, and it brings up some important questions that deserve to be addressed." And I would add to that: I think the Church has done itself a disservice in some ways when it comes to how we've taught (and in some ways probably overly-glorified) our history. And I think we're paying for that now. Though I do think the Church is *starting* to get back on the right track with things like the new Saints volumes, and the gospel topics essays.

[@josephsorg]

@@davidsnell2605 Thank you for the reply David. I agree that the church is now paying for their earlier dishonesty with a mass exodus of faithful members. This blow back is the whole reason the gospel topics essays exist. The church has known about these issues for years and made an intention decision to deceive. Leonard Arringtons Biography by Prince I think paints this picture well. I think the churches increased transparency is a good thing, but the anonymously authored Gospel Topics essays are still full of half truths and lots whitewashing. The membership has also not been properly told about these essays, so they are more out there as an "out" for when the church gets caught, not because the church is wiling to come clean to its membership and the world. So the whole situation still stinks of more of the same.

[@missmia7277]

The devil always mocks God

[@ruggedlifejewelry]

It is a counterfeit... masonry started in Babylon and It is against The God of the Bible

[@epic8O1]

He said a whole lot to say "yes, mormons are masons" and left out that the god of Masonry is Lucifer. Kind of a big miss there.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

If the first Mormons were free masons, then the Mormons started with people who already accepted a false theology, known as the GAOTU, great architect of the universe The freemasons were not based on ancient Judaism despite freemasons claiming this. That's (I believe) just to claim some form of legitimacy.

[@inChristalone1960]

@@ruggedlifejewelry Amen and Amen.

[@xxxgabaxxx]

@@ruggedlifejewelry no it didn't. All scholars point its beginning on centuries after Christ.

[@VAATAUSILI4139]

Our Brother here, & his video perfectly explains all truths of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. LATTER DAY SAINTS.

[@letsjustgetalong]

I've been watching your channel for a few months now. @david snell you are so awesome. I'm grateful you take the time to teach and lead us to sources. What a great calling God had given you. Thanks for standing up and accepting it. You've helped so many.

[@lobmibtanpiall7574]

For me ,What matters most are the covenants you made inside the Temple, symbolism are just secondary in purpose, the most important thing is that the relationship between God and Man and the covenants involved between them.👌

[@LordDirus007]

God was NOT A CREATED BEING NOR DID HE START AS A MAN! Mormons are NOT Christian. The whole Power of God is his Eternal Nature. Please, turn away and accept the one True Gospel. Your Salvation depends on this. I'll Pray that you find true Faith

[@LordDirus007]

There is No Heavily Mother! It's all Blasphemy!

[@TheArcaneWard_Promotion]

​@LordDirus007 Hey, uh..... we don't believe any of those things. You might want to check your sources and take it down a few notches.

[@Silentraddish]

​@@LordDirus007 I'm not Mormon, but to say they aren't Christian is just blatantly false. Ask any mormon and they will say Christ is their saviour.

[@michaelparks5669]

@@LordDirus007 you are not a Christian

[@drewsclues5394]

This video helped answer another burning question I had about the endowment! Thank you!

[@SaintsUnscripted]

We're thrilled that our video could help answer your question! If you have more questions or ideas for future videos, just give us a shout. Thanks for tuning in and for your support!

[@friendo6257]

A few strikes against you in this video. One being that Freemasonry doesn’t date back to the Middle Ages. You also brushed over the similarities saying simply that there are similarities. If you dive deeper you’ll find that the first three degrees of masonry use language and handshakes that are identical to the endowment ceremonies. Which is more likely? That god inspired a fraternity that would later inspire Joseph Smith, a known conman? Or that Joseph Smith, a known conman, conned a bunch of people using freemasonry and it’s occult teachings as a basis. It’s really interesting watching the hoops you’ll jump through to make sense of something that’s so extremely obviously to the rest of us.

[@michaelparks5669]

masonic hand shakes go back 2000 years best study up.

[@lorineilson7529]

The LDS temple practices in Joseph Smith's time and today don't come close to what they did in the Israelite Temple in the Bible. In that temple women were not allowed there.

[@latter-daytemplar7156]

Given that the Law of Moses has already been fulfilled, it makes sense that the temple ordinances today would be different.

[@ekaterini2957]

this is such an interesting perspective. Appreciated.

[@curtisdistaso6789]

Awesome video! Also you guys should do a video on what you guys and the church thinks about the military and war. I think it'd be really interesting to see.

[@BrianMillsMFA]

The Church LOVES war. Have you not read Alma?

[@curtisdistaso6789]

@@BrianMillsMFA I have not read Alma, I'm not lds. Are you being sarcastic by saying "LOVES"?

[@godswarrior7644]

Curtis Distaso Brian mills is basically being what do you call...oh anti Mormon.

[@tylerahlstrom4553]

The best response is found in Doctrine and Covenants 98 in which it says that war should be avoided and is only justified if God commands it after they have endured multiple offences that don't appear to be stopping anytime soon. Read the section for a more accurate picture.

[@tylerahlstrom4553]

Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace D&C 98:16

[@BrianTerrill]

I have friends who are lds that wouldn't listen to a thing I said when I was discussing the church history and connection to Freemasonry. I have other friends and a dad who were/are freemasons. We cannot discard it either from our church history or national history, George Washington was sworn in as President with a Masonic Bible. Freemasons are a lot like church members, some dig deep into the more ancient origins while others only focus on their more recent origins as if it was created out of nothing

[@LPDESIGNS1]

Symbolism isnt secondary. Symbolism denotes the essence of an organizations beliefs and history. It has been a language that has been used since the beginning of civilization.

[@Americansikkunt]

“Ancient Christian practices”. Ha! More like “Ancient Babylon Mystery Religons”

[@ruggedlifejewelry]

Exactly these are to worship Satan , they hated the coming Messiah

[@zyriankobani6930]

Show and prove.

[@caitlinwhite237]

Read the Dead Sea scrolls.

[@justinewert2166]

To this day I have an observation that doesn’t trouble me about the temple(s), but sure raises a question that hasn’t been answered. When I perform a Google search for “LDS Temple Sealing Room” or “LDS Temple Celestial Room” I get several images that all have the same thing in common (for all of the temples). In every one of these sacred rooms there is not one painting, picture, stain glass or mural of Jesus Christ. Try performing the search and keep looking through all the photos available. There are pictures of Jesus in the hallways, Baptismal font room and lobby area of the temple(s). What confuses me is why are two of the most sacred and important rooms not depicting or displaying the very man that the church worships? Now I know that there is a stained glass image of the First Vision in the SLC Holiness of Holies room but other than that I can’t find another example of images with Jesus Christ in these rooms. I am hoping that there is a simple answer to this question and if anyone can provide the answer I’d appreciate it.

[@babywise2096]

You wont get an answer just apologist poppycock

[@smdh99]

Justin You will never see any signs of Jesus inside or outside of that bldg. They are worshipping a different father in there. That's why they convinced you that Jesus was a whole different person then the one in the bible. They don't want the real Jesus anywhere near that place. Now they wanna get chummy with the pope. Check out the popes demon amphitheater and demon statues. He seems to be obsessed with satan. There's a lot of that happening that ppl have no idea about.

[@monocuco818]

Actually there is a great reason :) the same reason there isn't a picture of Christ inside of our chapels... just the rest of the church such as the bishops office or hallways, just like in the temple. You see, I don't think it is doctrine that we can't have an image of them in those rooms, but we don't because we don't worship images of Him. We worship a living Christ. In areas where we actually worship and prepare the sacrament and have sacred prayers, we remember Him and worship the savior and God of us all. The one spoken of in the Bible, the same one who came to America as the Savior of all mankind, not just of the early Christians. So yeah, it is that simple. A picture isn't Christ, but it can be good for learning in classrooms and teaching about the scriptures. But in rooms where we specifically worship, we worship the real Christ, not any images or statues etc...

[@monocuco818]

@@smdh99 Yeah it isn't like there are large paintings of Christ all over the temple... oh wait... yes, yes there are. We just don't worship images of Him, so they aren't in specific rooms where we worship.

[@smdh99]

@@monocuco818 But that makes no sense. It sounds like you're saying someone might worship Jesus because of what he looks like in a painting.

[@Dan-juel]

Great video! Keep it coming baby!!!

[@BrianMillsMFA]

So, here's the biggest problem with the temple endowment: its purpose is to teach you signs and tokens (handshakes and passwords) you will need to "pass by the angels who stand as sentinels" and enter into the highest degree of Heaven. What??? As you admit, the temple ceremony is heavily copied from the Masonic ceremony. The Masonic ceremony has a clearly understandable purpose: there was no way in the Middle Ages for a man to travel to another town and for the members of that Masonic Lodge to know if the guy was truly a Mason, and if so, to what degree he had reached. So, they came up with secret passwords and handshakes that the Mason could give and therefore establish his authenticity as a Mason. In the days before computers and telephones, this system made perfect sense. How else would you show to other people that you are a member of their secret organization? Now, this all falls apart when you port it over to a religious context, because now you are involving God, an omniscient being. Why would He need to authenticate whether or not you received your initiation? He would already know! Furthermore, basing the entrance into Heaven on whether or not you know the secret handshakes is really pointless when you factor in that people can learn all of these signs and tokens and then not keep their covenants, and other people can of course share the secret signs and tokens with people they should not (there are KZbin channels where the entire Temple ceremony is available to watch because a guy snuck in a camera). God would have foreseen both of these eventualities, thus adopting such an imperfect system is problematic. You can't even enter the temple today without a recommend that has a barcode read by a computer, so even temples have better security than the Celestial Kingdom. So the system of establishing handshakes and passwords might make sense to a bunch of people hundreds of years ago to keep their little club secret, but prescribing those same activities to God Almighty and Heaven itself is a complete breakdown in logic.

[@davidsnell2605]

I agree with you in that the most important thing is to be keeping the covenants those signs represent. If you're not, I don't think they'll do you a lick of good. In the scriptures God often gives physical signs or tokens that represent different covenants or promises. I think God understands the help that physical reminders can be to us mortals. And while what you mentioned may have been one of the purposes of Masonic signs, there is ample evidence from ancient religious sources that they used these kind of things for strictly religious purposes. It kind of goes back to the quote from the video. Masonry used them for one purpose, but they were adopted from Christianity, which used them for their own purposes (and not just as a means of identification). If that's true, then it would make sense that Joseph would take them back and restore them to their original purpose (which probably even predated how they were used when the Masons took them from Christianity). Of course, I'm not saying this is exactly what's happening here, but it's a thought. All the best!

[@katog]

This is what the Book of Mormon says about secret societies bound by oaths ; Helaman 6-18. And now behold, those murderers and plunderers were a band who had been formed by Kishkumen and Gadiaton. And now it had come to pass that there were many even among the Nephites, of Gadiaton's band . But behold, they were more numerous among the more wicked part of the Lamanites, and they were called Gadianton's Robbers and Murderers. 19- And it was they who did murder the chief Judge Cezoram and his son, while in the judgement seat, and behold, they were not found. 21- But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with those bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed, that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings , and their stealings. 22- And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words, and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant 25- Now behold, it is these secret oaths and covenants which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world, lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto destruction. 26- Now behold, those secret oaths and covenants did not come forth unto Gadiaton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman, but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadiaton by that same Being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit. Doesn't this sound like Freemasonry to you ?

[@smdh99]

@@davidsnell2605 Someone on here looked up the masonic symbols. Not used by Christians ever. Do you guys find yourselves lying in your personal life? When ppl lie as easy as they breathe it tends to become a part of you. Where's all those mormon values and morals and virtue? A lot of ppl must have lost respect for you.

[@davidsnell2605]

@@smdh99 If you're open to the possibility of being incorrect (and I say that sincerely), you may learn several things from the research available in the description of this video, particularly the book by Matthew B. Brown.

[@smdh99]

@@davidsnell2605 I'm definitely open.

[@Xexsut]

Awesome video! Could you please discuss the topic of the 'Garden of Eden' location controversy. Keep up the good work!

[@davidsnell2605]

Thanks for this suggestion! I'll make a note of it.

[@davidsnell2605]

@@davidjanbaz7728 Thanks! I'll take a look. Merry Christmas.

[@jayo8767]

You really bent yourself into a pretzel there. The obvious answer is that masonry was a family tradition joe was well versed in ancient occult knowledge and prob wanted to start his own thing and that’s why there’s similarities don’t need to go back 5000 years to figure out this mystery lol

[@RonPeolman]

FYI, they changed the endowment ceremony in 1990 to remove some oaths where the participant would pantomime their own death but remnants of these oaths are still present. The extended thumb represents a knife and the hand in cupping shape represents cradling your own bowels.

[@LyrasRaven]

Whaaaat

[@toddwatts8450]

Exactly!!

[@katog]

The blood oaths they are called or penalty , same as found in Masonry

[@jonathanhatch2620]

Thanks for the video. The video suggests that the similarities of elements in the two rituals could be due to the elements being ancient OR that the Lord took & repurposed non-modern freemasonry elements OR a mixture of both... but which do you (the creator/s of this video think it was? (FYI, I left the church about a year ago for history issues like this one - but I respect LDS & enjoy the respectful discussion). Kindly, Jonathan

[@truth.speaker]

There is no answer. That's why it takes people over a century afterward making stuff up - because the guy who copied freemasonry didn't leave any answers

[@MrTikalvideo]

I love to investigate this subject. My conclusions so far are that MASONRY is the remanent of long centuries of APOSTASY, Joseph Smith just re stablish again to this dispensation.

[@Raven_Monk]

Hey fellow LDS 😁 new member, I was baptized on July 23 of this year. There’s a KZbin video I came across called “The Mormons: Who they are, what they believe. (2015) Full Movie by Dr. Lynn Wilder.” I’d love to hear y’all’s opinion please!

[@jacobbowers7137]

Lynn Wilders sole purpose is to make money by attacking the church and marketing those attacks to other Christians. I’ve read her and her families work extensively.

[@polemeros]

Not a Mormon, but I sick and tired of people saying that some cultural idea or practice was "stolen", when the most you can say is that it was "copied." Stealing means the original owner doesn't have it anymore! Cultures and practices are not like cars. You CAN'T steal them, only copy them. "Stealing" is cheap and nasty rhetoric for these things, designed to criminalize what is not a crime, and should not be given any credence at all.

[@IBNED]

As a active member of the Church and a active member of the craft I agree with many of the speculations proposed in this presentation. It makes sense to me that God would use symbols that were familiar during this time period. The ongoing teaching process of symbolism runs deep in civilization.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

GAOTU is not the God of the Bible. You are a member of a group with a false theology.

[@IBNED]

@@prayunceasingly2029 Its only "theology" is that you must believe in God and how you interpret God is up to each member. It is a fraternity not a Church.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@IBNED A universal God is a basic membership requirement. Yet that God is literally any God one wants. Making that membership prerequisite totally nonsensical because it's an undefined God that no one really believes in.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@IBNED Do your ceremonies get done under the authority of the great architect? If so you are making that God the head of your brotherhood. A God that is a made up entity that changes into whatever God one likes. Making the membership based on a fiction rather than one's true deity. God isn't the GAOTU as you seem to agree. Making the rejection of the atheist also strange. As the truth of theology really doesn't matter in freemasonry anyway.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@IBNED If it's not a religious organization the atheist could join. If it's a fraternity not a religion

[@dark_winter8238]

Why have temple ceremony's changed. That's easy one. Because there is know way I would of gone on a mission if I had seen blood oaths in the temple.

[@ATD1990]

Blood oaths?

[@prayunceasingly2029]

Interesting how the CoJC of LDS changed so many things....and still claims to be the most true church on earth

[@agomodern]

@@prayunceasingly2029 Your abbreviation is a new one for me. lol Too much of a coward to write out the whole name?

[@smdh99]

Joseph was into the occult and you're claiming God was responsible for the masonic involvement. I would be terrified to do that.

[@hans8025]

Exactly.

[@inChristalone1960]

Agreed.

[@TheMegalion]

Hi there! I was quite surprised... and you are an open minded person and very nice! Thanks for the video! Greetings from 🇨🇱

[@treyvonsimba]

We will all be judged by Christ and becoming a freemason will not or has never been the remedy to save people. Do you people not know that we all have a common enemy called satan who was once Lucifer. He wants you to believe and worship anything but the word of God. He wants you to grow facts and in false knowledge to become confused. Jesus is the only way to the gift of eternal life. Believe it or not because we are all given a free will by our Lord and savior.

[@latter-daytemplar7156]

Neither the Church nor Freemasonry claims that Freemasonry saves people.

[@jacobherring6380]

I LOVE this topic!!

[@orangemanbad]

But why would god use a fraternity’s rituals as his form of worship? That seems ………

[@lindsaydahl3069]

Thank you for this - it put into more eloquent words the thoughts that I was having to explain this.

[@happyraccoon4791]

Freemasonry began c.1715 ish. Not earlier. Knights Templar became a degree, the 7th in my 1857 Freemason handbook. These rituals are not ancient Christian rituals. Joseph Smith became the highest degree Mason in a day. Given Illuminati authority which he vested in his Council of Fifty. They then imitated Geo Washington and proclaimed JS a Lt General and king of the world, then JS ran for President, like GW. Mormonism is Freemasonry and the two share A Secret Tow Line at the highest political level. The endowment ceremony is take from the rituals and blood oathes in Freemasonry. And at Carthage everyone with JS inside jail was a Freemason and everyone outside was a Freemason.

[@Crottinger]

I am a freemason. Masonry goes to extreme lenghts to say it's NOT a religion. Masonry is a fraternal organization that began in 1717 in England, Masonry is all about symbolism that is used to teach lessons in self improvement and morality. NONE of masonry is a divinely inspired revelation from God. I could never be a Mormon because we know masonic ritual is not divinely inspired. Joseph Smith did take masonic ritual and make it into a religion. Not all of Mormon ritual comes form masonry. But quite a lot of it does. It is so strange that Mormons don't know that some of their sacred ritual is taken from a fraternal organization that openly states the ritual is not a religion or sacred in any way. Mormons really should investigate Joseph Smith and how he took a man made lodge ritual and made it into something divine.

[@M0nch_Cr0nch]

My brother in Christ did you even watch the video? 💀💀

[@haloblokbuster7991]

Did you not watch the video?? Or did you just see the title and start to comment? I took a class that talked about how masonry was practiced years ago and was brought back in the early 1300s. Also this information is found from Masonic documents! Like the halliwell manuscript. Also there are ancient texts that date back to Solomon’s time. By the way. There are different types of Freemason “religions” that split off from each other. I wonder which one you were part of, or if you were part of anyways.

[@agomodern]

It's easy for people to throw around words like plagiarism to discredit views in which they themselves do not believe. Not sure how they think throwing those words around is proof of anything, but whatever.

[@enigmaticvaran6597]

If the masons adapted the endowment ceremony from what it was originally, then it would have evolved over time. Why wouldn't god just reveal the original version of the ceremony to Joseph Smith instead of making him take notes from the corrupted version of it? If god could reveal the entire book of Mormon to him thorough a rock and a hat without need of the actual plates, then surely god could have revealed the original version of the ceremony through the hat without need of external influence. And even if the theories you propose in this video are correct, then why wouldn't Joseph Smith clear all doubt by explaining that himself instead of relying on apologists to rescue him generations later?

[@danielcasperson7447]

The quotes you including in here are CLASSIC! 😂 I ☠️ with the muppet clips! Your humor parallels my own when it comes to quoting movies.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

The clips really are great!

[@gregorysmithj1]

Edgy topic love it

[@garrgravarr]

The short answer is yes. The rest is apologetic tapdancing.

[@haloblokbuster7991]

What are you trying to get at?

[@garrgravarr]

@@haloblokbuster7991 Which part did you not understand?

[@jasongast1806]

Anything doing with masons, and rituals I freaking love. Ever since assassains creed 2 I have loved symbolism

[@johnlewis6526]

You’d love this church man, we have so many interesting, ancient, and ritualistic things

[@jasongast1806]

@@johnlewis6526 way ahead of you my friend. I’ve been baptized now for two years. Working on my heart to get endowed.

[@johnlewis6526]

@@jasongast1806 that’s so cool! Congratulations! I’m working on getting my patriarchal blessing right now

[@jasongast1806]

@@johnlewis6526 Thank you!. I’m excited for you

[@Crottinger]

@@jasongast1806 Why not just join freemasonry? We don't masquerade as a church. But sometimes it seems that mormons masquerade as a lodge.

[@FFM115]

If that was the only problem with Mormonism I would surely give them a pass, but all apologists know full well that this is not the case.

[@jrobert6916]

Well done. Thank you.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Our pleasure!

[@Sayheybrother8]

When looking at ancient practices there are none outside of pagan and Egyptian God worshippers that used anything like the temple ordinances?

[@caitlinwhite237]

Early Christian practices were very similar. And a good portion of our temple ordinances can be found in the Old Testament too 🤷‍♀️

[@Sayheybrother8]

@@caitlinwhite237 whatever!!! That’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard!

[@caitlinwhite237]

@@Sayheybrother8 good luck to you. I hope you find what you’re looking for in life.

[@liliamatuszczak8821]

@@caitlinwhite237 not true

[@extremestupidstuntsreal5753]

Most freemasons will never understand why they practice. When it's time the select know. Like sentinels of truth. Family moto no one lower.

[@vikingminigerbs6379]

So what your saying is, it’s not a rip off because it’s not exactly the same? Really wish you would grade my college essays I’d have to put no effort in to get an A

[@smdh99]

😂😂

[@hiker-uy1bi]

I'll save you 5 minutes: yes.

[@lancecarter2842]

Awesome video David!

[@dane_with_swag]

The ancient temples may also have borrowed from Egyptian temples.... If the similarities isn't because the Egyptian temples were based on traditions passed down from Noah 🤔

[@redfightblue]

Do you mean Moses? I wonder if Moses leaves Egypt and establishes the temple (the tabernacle first) as a restoration of the corrupt Egyptian temple. He was raised a prince and would have been initiated. We tend to think that Moses established the temple but if Moses restored the temple from Egypt, it must of got there from Ham, the son of Noah. Abraham visits Egypt and the Book of Abraham implies that he was initiated however, he doesn't appear to have brought it back to the Holy Land like Moses did.

[@aceuni-rider6921]

Super helpful. Thanks.

[@oneministries4878]

Yes, is this a rhetorical question?

[@saullopez3073]

The water into wine was a crystal clear example, why? when he could of created it 🤯

[@thekolobsociety]

Mason’s also have similar clothing for their “candidates” to the LDS.

[@thekolobsociety]

@@RyanMercer The design the temple robe is similar in character to the Masonic clothing. Bare breast.

[@thekolobsociety]

@@RyanMercer The symbolism is the same to me. But, to each their own.

[@thekolobsociety]

@@RyanMercer You might need to do some more study into the meaning of the Temple Endowment.

[@dark_winter8238]

@@RyanMercer lol. That's exactly what it was like before blood oaths got removed in the 1980's. Suggest you look those up.

[@chrissessions6108]

I know basically nothing about the masonic rituals, but it's pretty obvious to me that the apron is very similar.

[@jonathanfillmore]

Love your channel! Keep up the good work!

[@benjamingardea4511]

Circular reasoning. Using Abraham’s being influenced by Egypt as proof of the revelatory process Joseph used is all based on the same assumption that there is divine influence and not just men making things up.

[@tpbarron]

Yes, you always do such a great job! Look forward to watching them all! Thanks David.

[@katog]

Question one , why did God give revelations of the Temple Endowment only after he became a Master Mason? God's revelatory pattern with Joseph seems extremely convenient, of course if God gave him such revelation , God didn't need for him to be introduced to Masonry first . Every controversial doctrine or practice Joseph instituted was influenced from some other culture. Why? He was making up things as he went along, so it would appear that his "revelations" were original. His Polygamy practices was influenced by Islam , he went as far to state that he is a modern day Muhammad. His revelations on taking multiple wives was copied directly from the Quran . That's just a tip of the iceberg on his fraudulence.

[@joshcooper7]

Why would God make Joseph go get the plates? Surely God could have just told Jospeh what to write? Why did Jesus make the leper bathe in the Jordan seven times and he would be clean? Surely Jesus could have just healed him?

[@katog]

@@joshcooper7 So by your Analogy God may have told Joseph to join Freemasonry and learn the Apostate endowment ceremony before he could have instructed Joseph to restore the correct endowment? That is highly preposterous, madness !!!

[@joshcooper7]

@@katog no. My point is just because God could do something that would be easier in our minds doesn't mean he will. Nice try tho

[@katog]

@@joshcooper7 You make absolutely zero sense .

[@katog]

@@joshcooper7 By the way for reasons of clarity , when Joseph "got" the plates , it still didn't make a difference, according to videos from this channel , Joseph did use a seer stone placed in a Top hat and the translated glowing characters would appear and he told Oliver what to write and the Golden plates most of the time was not present during the translation process.

[@flasktalimasa5586]

I love this when I first came across this it was from a anti church channel and it baffled me but then I had a thought exactly what you just said revaluation or coincidence? But I definitely had a feeling of calm and even a better feeling from this thumbs up 👍🏽

[@NuggetsForBrains5]

Stella Davis you act like the gospel doesn’t bring peace and calm. I had the exact same experience when I started watching these, they bring the spirit into the mind and heart and if that is not a testament of gods truth I don’t know what is. Colossians 3:15 Galatians 5:22 Philippians 4:7

[@rolandmotari]

Js jr was a charlatan, a liar, an adulterer, a polyandrist, and a deceiver and wasn’t a man of God. You can believe in lies but until you search for objective truth your feelings aren’t objective and less significant in confirming the veracity of JS jr life and actions

[@Jozzie1987]

@@rolandmotari There is no objective truth when it comes to Joseoh Smith Jr. The man been dead for like 170 years. Anti-mormons will say negative things, Members of The Church of Latter-Day Saints will say positive things. I know he was a man and as all men do, he made mistakes. What mistakes? Not sure, I didn't know him. But just because he was a man and made mistakes (as we do), doesn't mean he wasn't a prophet.

[@rolandmotari]

@@Jozzie1987 My statement wasn't an opinion. It is a statement of fact. I didn't just say it cos I think so or feel so. I said it after thorough research into the life, teachings and doctrines of Joseph Smith Jr. You have said you don't know the man, so please leave it at that. If you don't know him, how then can you say he was a prophet? Isn't that contradictory? There's no man, mormon or not who learns the real truth about Joseph Smith that still considers him anything other than a charismatic charlatan. If you're a mormon apologist, who believes all the conditioned lies in Mormonism, just state it openly. Otherwise, I would suggest that you go learn about Joseph Smith before you dare call him a prophet or man of God. As far as Christianity and the bible is concerned, Joseph Smith miserably fails the test for being a man of God in perpetuity!

[@Jozzie1987]

@@rolandmotari I didn't say for a fact he is a prophet. I said, "Just because he made mistakes doesn't mean he isn't a prophet." Not the same thing. I believe he is a prophet. You believe he is not. You do NOT KNOW HIM! Unless you've found a time machine and traveled back in time, spent time with him, spoke with family members, and community members. Since I'm pretty sure you haven't done that, do not say you KNOW him. You know about him. You know some truth, some lies, you choose to believe the lies and/or don't understand that men make mistakes and not everything that came from his mouth is prophecy. Edit: And since you apparently think I need to do research on Joseph Smith because I don’t “know” him, I have read plenty of books/articles/teachings/etc. I just don’t claim to know people I have not met.

[@shawnlarrabee45]

Great work on this video. I respect the perspective and points you're offering here. As a Master Mason, Joseph would have made a similar or the exact promise as listed below. Was it dishonest or immoral for Joseph to promise these things and then reveal the secrets of Masonry? This passage comes from Duncan's Ritual, found online. ""I, Peter Gabe (Master gives three raps with his gavel, when all present assemble round the altar), of my own free-will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God, and this worshipful Lodge, erected to him and dedicated to the holy Sts. John, do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, that I will always hail, ever conceal, and never reveal any of the secrets, arts, parts, point or points, of the Master Masons' Degree, to any person or persons whomsoever, except it be to a true and lawful brother of this Degree, or in a regularly constituted Lodge of Master Masons, nor unto him, or them, until by strict trial, due examination, or lawful information, I shall have found him, or them, as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself. "All this I most solemnly, sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steady resolution to perform the same, without any hesitation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind what-ever, binding myself, under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, 1 my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered before the four winds of heaven, that no more remembrance might be had of so vile and wicked a wretch as I would be, should I ever, knowingly, violate this my Master Mason's obligation. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same."

[@davidsnell2605]

It's a good question and probably depends on how you view Joseph's prophetic claims. That said, just as food for thought and additional information, I like what anthropologist Manu Padro has said on this subject: "The 'blood oaths and penalties' of the Masonic initiatory ceremonies were a symbolic representation of the dangers of sharing Masonic secrets. The Freemasons and most groups belonging to the western esoteric movement (and most secret societies worldwide) were formed because the information and ideas they shared with each other could get them killed by the powers that be. "These penalties were a symbolic reminder in a symbolic initiatory ceremony, in a symbolic movement that can trace its cultural lineage and use of symbols to long before the birth of Christ. They were meant to remind people through symbols that sharing the secrets of the lodge could get you and the lodge members killed by outsiders and the powers that be. Not the lodge members themselves. "They were not systematically applied to people who broke the Freemason oath of secrecy. They were not applied to Joseph Smith." bit.ly/2YycjYt

[@shawnlarrabee45]

@@davidsnell2605 Thanks for the response. I appreciate the information about the penalties. Are you saying that because the penalties were only symbolic that it wasn't dishonest or immoral for Joseph to essentially covenant in the presence of God and his lodge members to keep the signs and tokens secret and then break that covenant?

[@davidsnell2605]

@@shawnlarrabee45 Nope, I wasn't really taking a stance on it. I just like that Padro points out that (at least according to him) the purpose of that covenant wasn't to protect the sacredness of the covenant itself under penalty of death, but rather to protect the one who covenants. For what that's worth.

[@shawnlarrabee45]

@@davidsnell2605 Fair enough. Clair Barrus has a great conversation about the connection of Royal Arch Masonry and Cryptic Masonry with the early foundations of the Church, if you're interested. You can listen to episode 31 of the Sunstone Podcast.

[@monocuco818]

@@shawnlarrabee45 Just because someone makes a "covenant" to not reveal, does not mean that God respects or makes that covenant with them. So breaking that "covenant" will not bring about the consequences or wrath of God or anything. Is it a lie to do something like that and then just walk out, maybe, depending on if you knew what you were getting yourself into or not. As members of the church we make covenants at baptism to follow Christ, we renew these covenants by taking of the sacrament. If someone who has not been baptized and who would not be considered "worthy" to partake of the sacrament, actually partakes will they be under condemnation as spoken of in the scriptures. No, because they have not made the covenant, and therefore have not broken it. Members have made a true covenant with the Lord, and therefore would be in trouble for partaking unworthily. Just because we claim to make covenants with the Lord... does not mean He has made a covenant with us.

[@ericalves5514]

may i ask where do you believe nom mormons master masons goes to??

[@MarleneKerr-p6x]

Thank you so much for explaining this even though i dont need an explanation i look at the church today in the scriptures it sais beware of faulse prophets meaning there must also be true ones then it sais by their fruits ye shall know them and the fruits of the church amazing and beautiful please keep explaining all these topics because Mormon stories podcast slander the church with lies misunderstandings and exaggerations i am a member and no one is perfect but i feel the truth peace and the spirit in the church and i know joseph smith is a prophet and we have a prophet today

[@noviz13]

In the Bible it says in Galatians 1:6-9 - I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9#As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

[@retimixshotcrete5870]

Genital mutalation , thats what circumcision is

[@michaelparks5669]

What is the LDS Endowment for? What is the Masonic rite for? They are as different as night and day. What LDS rite is Masonic? None. What Masonic rite is LDS? none.

[@michaelparks5669]

what no answer?

[@neilanger2538]

Maybe the term borrow would be more appropriate.

[@henochparks]

Joseph Smith was an honorary Mason. His raising was done in one day. This is not standard Masonic practice which takes months. Some of the things Masons do are thousands of years old. They go back to hidden Judaism and hidden Christianity. The Masonic rites are not religious.The holy rites Mormons practice are found in early Christianity but not in Masonry. Example the Holy Unction also known as Chrismation. The Holy Oranz are just two of the holy rites Mormon practice which are not Masonic but are found being practiced by orthodox Christian Bishops.

[@RyanMercer]

Not all jurisdictions require proficiency, Lodges all around the country will raise a dozen candidates through EA, FC, MM in a day. In my jurisdiction they'll ven partner with the Scottish Rite so that you go from candidate to Master Mason then do all of the SR degrees in a 6-8 hour event with 1 or 2 meals served.

[@henochparks]

@@RyanMercer Wow really? We had to know most of it by heart. Took me months. I was raised in 2010 in Oregon. I also did the Mark Master and Royal Arch degrees. Thinking about the Knights Templar degree. Have you checked out the Mandeans and their Temple rites? You might find them interesting.. Look up Kushta then think of St Johns of Jerusalem.

[@RyanMercer]

@@henochparks yeah. My blue lodge didn't require mastery at all but the lodge I moved my membership to does, same jurisdiction.

[@henochparks]

@@RyanMercer cool.!

[@jetcitysinatra7300]

Are you able to look at this with an open mind or is your viewpoints slanted? My Son's Mother is a Mormon and you can not tell her anything that would be able to prove that Mormonism is wrong because she likes to have her ears tickled by what she hears. Large Family, Married in heaven, owning her own planet and so on and if someone in her family doesn't want to become Mormon on earth they will get another chance in heaven to become Mormon. Who wouldn't love these things. Now deep down we all know that Scripture Says different but I guess you will find these things out when you stand before Jesus the Creator in heaven. She also is a bit racist and so is the Mormon Church (Come on be honest here, The Curse of Cain Doctrine?) Joseph Smith was ok with blacks being priesthood holders (He was supposed to be the one GOD chose to rebuild his church on this earth but GOD forgot to tell Joseph that Blacks in the church was a no no) He just happened to give that "Revilation" unto Brigham Young who just happened to own slaves? WOW I guess GOD is a very forgetful and mind changing GOD after all. . .

[@zacian1654]

Lol loved the thumbnail it was funny and thanks for making things clear about freemasonry and The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints.

[@DatZ0b]

Nothing suspicious to see here folks!

[@babywise2096]

Do a video about joseph smith shooting 3 people the day he died or the book or Abraham fraud

[@babywise2096]

Do a video on Abraham book

[@701garage]

Why do you believe that Smith is a prophet and have song worship him. What happened when Moses came down the mountain. I think this is what the Mormon church is.

[@robertrobinson-9161]

The Temple of Doom 😱

[@bonojennett]

Seems like a lot of mental gymnastics.

[@elainew6441]

It's all about faith. Thank you for this video

[@justins5756]

@@mikkifrompreston fact

[@littleandre4957]

Check out 'Joseph Smith and Masonry - Now you Know' FACT CHECK

[@ralphbosen5794]

My experience has taught me that "Fact Check" is not always right! One must do more than rely on someone else's printed word.

[@HeavensLuv]

Jesus Christ has nothing to do with evil!!!!! Do not be deceived??? 🌈☝️✝️☝️🌈

[@AVIDSTUFF]

The image you use of Joseph translating the plates by putting his head in a hat has now been changed and the church teaches an alternate method of translating. Which is more BS.

[@BILLOFRIGHTSDANGER]

So exactly what was the lie Joseph Smith told 1) he is an oracle of God even writing new scripture, speaking as God in him in the 1st person, OR when he knocked 3x on the masonic door and said to the effect "I am a poor man living in darkness who seeks masonic enlightenment", whereupon he was blindfolded with a tow rope around his neck and a sharp blade put on his chest and he knelt before a "worshipful master" swearing a blood oath not to divulge what he learned. it can't be both...if the masonic teachings are enlightenment then God wasn't talking, masons were. If he is an oracle of the living God he could have written endowments without a human organization just as he allegedly did with the book of mormon. He lied to be a mason and his oath of secrecy was a lie for which some masons may have killed him. Notably the church leader masons did not investigate other masons In his death, instead mandating all temple Mormons take an oath of vengeance against the u.s. as the enemy of Joseph smith's theocratic council of fifty, Deseret, "kingdom of God on earth" the church wanted to build in Utah which they have succeeded in doing when it obliterated utahs 3 branch government for lawyers in 1985.

[@jaredmaddox3735]

LDS and a Freemason. I approve this message.

[@davidwitkamp3245]

WTF lol 😂

[@patrickluchycky1172]

No masonry did not influence Joseph Smith. Temple worship started with Adam. The church of Jesus Christ also started on earth with Adam. The rituals and ordinances of true Temple worship was taken, corrupted, copped, stolen from true religion as members left, fell away from the church and true revealed religion from every time, era, age and dispensation. Before there was the masons, the Egyptians, or any other organization, false and pagan religions, etc., there was the church of Jesus Christ. All have been influenced by the church, (the only true revealed religion), and have taken something from our temple practices since Adam. The Lord if I remember correctly, instructed Joseph Smith to join the masons to see and learn what they had and experience how their rituals were done. He took what was good and correct and discarded erroneous and incorrect practice. For a lack of better words, he stole back anything right and correct. Masonic ritual and practice doesn't mention Jehovah or Jesus Christ, has some things in common and isn't gospel based. Like I mentioned earlier, which came first? Jesus Christ, the church, true religion and worship of the only True and Living God, temple worship and practice starting with Adam or masonry? The answer of course is Jesus Christ, his gospel and temple worship which he revealed to Adam. Anything else and everything else is a copy, imitation, fallen form, rip off, bastardization, corruption of what was restored by Joseph Smith. It really is plain and easy to see.

[@thinkforyourself9761]

😂😭😭 bro where’d you hear this

[@patrickluchycky1172]

@@thinkforyourself9761 bruh...

[@thinkforyourself9761]

@@patrickluchycky1172 what? Where do you get your information?

[@patrickluchycky1172]

@@thinkforyourself9761 strait from the Bible, history and, common sense. I also speak with others from those fraternal organizations and educate them. Some agree and most just don't get it.

[@thinkforyourself9761]

@@patrickluchycky1172 you do realize the Salt lake temple has a pentagram on it right

[@spiderb3367]

It’s literally the same hand gestures bruh. Go watch NewNameNoah to see the ceremony hidden camera

[@701garage]

Why did he change what do called God said and he could have several wifes

[@pumulomambwe9585]

Jesus and the apostles did such a bad job that the church became corrupt. wow

[@michellearmstrong7903]

Damage limitation again!

[@seans5289]

If I may indulge a bit: “God uses topics familiar to us, like ritual genital mutilation and rainbows, to get his message across.”

[@jonaha502]

To be fair circumcision was likely useful in the ancient world

[@seans5289]

@@jonaha502: Useful for what?

[@jonaha502]

@@seans5289 hygiene mainly. of course its probably not so useful now with modern hygiene but yeah. cultures around the world did it. even in 3rd world countries today like in africa it helps prevent hiv

[@seans5289]

@@jonaha502: I’m wondering where you got this information. My understanding of Bronze Age hygiene is that it elective surgeries would pose more risk than whatever health benefits might be gained by removing part of a baby’s genitals.

[@jonaha502]

@@seans5289 im just assuming that people in the bronze age, especially in the middle east, might not have bathed as often and because there are benefits like infection preventions, although these benefits could also be had by just bathing today. i wouldnt know. im not a mormon btw

[@lextime9427]

Lol

[@andrewe360]

I want money, first sunday

[@sharperthananytwoedgedswor1874]

🤦🏽‍♂️

[@marcegomes1423]

Read this book ...., FREEDOM from FREEMASONRY, canceling the curses of the lodge. By Bob Larson .... You need to break all the evil curses that comes with it ... please read

[@mariavanessanakayiki2480]

Thank you!!!

[@PapaKryptoss]

We have the time you just ran out of time. Bwahaha

[@joselinegallant7442]

Meh...

[@marcegomes1423]

You need to read the book ... FREEDOM from FREEMASONRY, canceling the curses of the lodge . By Bod Larson .... please read superrrr importanttt !!!! Please cancel the curse on your live and family !!!

[@stizzmendoza-hernandez8762]

Look

[@marcegomes1423]

Hi

[@marcegomes1423]

You need to read the book ... FREEDOM from FREEMASONRY, canceling the curses of the lodge . By Bod Larson .... please read superrrr importanttt !!!! Please cancel the curse on your live and family !!!

[@C.Noble13]

@@marcegomes1423 HAM is a Actor. Hams race Holly-wood Actor's characters Casting Acts parasitic brood species.

[@LoraleeArmstrongNunley]

Are you for real? Omg. This is so not true. If these rituals were for Mormons to get to heaven then why did they remove the cutting of the throat. Get a clue and stop apologizing

[@jasonsmith7416]

Another fantastic story…. Said no one ever.

[@MerkieAE]

If you know the whole picture, this video is a try not to laugh compilation 😂