Why We Decided To Coach BELOW Gold | Broken by Concept Episode 133 | League of Legends Podcast

[@CoachCupcake]

My take on the playing to your limit, or limit testing: Every league game is both performance and practice. You have to strike the balance. I think limit testing something specific is a great solution - in a way it can isolate an area and act as a drill, while you safely perform in the rest of the areas. I've had many students who need encouragement to limit test, just a handful who need encouragement to perform to their current level, but as is so often the case with complex topics; balance is the key.

[@ulquiorra635]

My league journey hmm: I woke up play 5 games in those 5 games all laners int to the core im going for the rope and hang myself.

[@gamera5160]

Losing in League feels as bad as winning feels good. So, I sympathize, but even in unwinnable games, you should try to learn something from it. In my journey, I make a point to stop playing ranked if I lose three in a row. By that point I’m probably tilted or tired or both.

[@dosuna10]

Started in high school in season 8 and played through season 10. I quit because I felt that everything was against me and that I would never get better. Coming back during season 13 as a much more mature person and understanding how to learn has made me really appreciate this game and all that goes into being a good league player. Yall are currently the newest step in my learning journey and I love the way you talk about the game and players mentals.

[@SenorKingpin]

Curtis sportin' the 700lp goatee

[@ohdrluwhao]

goatee goat

[@kazeryuu3603]

It's really good to see that you both changed your mind about low elo and start taking students this is really good

[@asya-35987]

"they live in the limit testing phase" yep, thats me 😅i had to take a step back recently and try to chill out cuz not only am i taking fights im unsure of, i just straight up go in even when its a bad fight just to see how far i can push it

[@barhoom493]

Your guys' podcast manages to get me excited about the game and general mentality improvement every time without fail. I was in a rut the last couple of days and this episode managed to help me get out of that mental rut (about a life situation that I'm in). Thank you

[@GamerDadTV]

I am glad I left you Speechless ; ) Love to chat

[@GamerDadTV]

very glad u liked the tiktok's ;)

[@Evdota247]

email them haha

[@auramaster13]

Was really reassuring to hear that 3 years of consistent playing gets you to plat 4. I started at the tail end of season 9. Lately I had been worried that maybe I had peaked and that I just wasn't improving quickly. The highest I have been is plat 3. Before this I had never owned a computer but I played some videogames competitvely. I played Pokemon, a few top placements in regional events and then Hearthstone consistently top 500 in the NA server. Both of those I was playing near the peak of the field within 2 years of starting it.

[@JonathanSaxon]

Its refreshing to see high elo players give gold - plat more respect. Usually high elo players lord it over lower ranked ones.

[@fjubbe378]

If I join the mid lane academy, ofc I will pay for it. How else will Curtis afford proper trousers?

[@SaintNyx]

Ahahahah, thank god someone said it.

[@blanche596]

Lp

[@ycantpenguinsfly]

You mean shorts?? Damn you wankas!

[@saint_lol]

This is carter/saint, thanks for reading my first mailbag question guys! I'll make sure to give an update in a couple months and I'll try not to do too much at once like you said. Thanks again!

[@Obzerver]

Just as a clarification, that "Riot's plan to fix Leauge" video was talking about things like improving the start of season cinematics, making the battle pass events more interesting and engaging, and rebuilding their rotating game modes dev team after it previously got turned into the tft team. It wasn't saying there were any problems with the experience of grinding ranked other than there's not many other ways to play the game.

[@wor2xfs250]

Hey curtis and nathan. As someone with highish elo (reached low masters) who watched your begginer's guide. I think even that it had a lot of advanced concepts and lingo thrown in that I believe a new/begginer player wouldn't understand. Saying things like wave management or even trading might not mean anything to someone who is just starting the gamw, even though it is such a simple concept for even low silver players. Just wanted to add my two cents. Great video as always!

[@lolMidroid]

This is such a great, refreshing video. Sort of sums all the avg players narratives, loved it, so refreshing. Especially enjoyed the part about all these apps that ONLY creates negative mindset to players before games. All my friends or random players when they come and start with this bs i always say "stop watching stats dude, it doesn't matter. All the informations you need are right in the loading screen. Anything else will just create negative mindset".

[@nolanlory737]

For an example of learning the controls, I can from console and has 150-200ish ping almost every game. One of the little things I take for granted now is estimating the length of a blitz hook. I used to have to click the ability and see it’s range every time. Now I can toggle that and typically prefer quick cast anyway. However, I take it for granted because it’s like now my mental stack is on when and who too hook, but not how to hook. Those little things add up with all of the champs too make league so much more enjoyable now. Learning that takes so long and was what made the game so frustrating and fun as a new player.

[@frostyjeff]

I used to play with 160ms now its down to a very good 60 trust me the difference is insane

[@alexrobomind]

First of all, thank you for actually taking a look at the lower ranks. I'm curious to see what your investigations will bring. I would be interested whether you could (maybe in one of your future podcasts) talk a bit about some of the points below that are somewhat related to a (self-perceived) “high-elo / low-elo disconnect”: - Taking things for granted: A small anecdote - I recently finished a jungle coaching where my coach recommended me to (when pathing towards the top-side) go to the top-side and ward the top-side buff to guard against a potential late invade. If I had done that, the bot side would have been completely unprotected because nobody else even bothered guarding there, and in 25-30% of my games there would be at least 3 enemies waiting for me at my buff. While I get my coach’s reasoning, I feel like it showed that we are playing somewhat different games on a day-to-day basis. While this was certainly a rather extreme example, I am sometimes baffled by the certainty with which high-level players expect basic things to just “go along”. You guys often know when and how to back off from a 100% play when it unexpectedly goes south, we don’t (or at least I don’t, can’t speak for all low-elo players after all), which is why questions like “What to do if my team doesn’t follow?” and “How do I handle the fed ADC as a top laner” come up so often. Those are not rants, those are common situations that we need to handle every (other) game, and where our responses make the difference between a game going on or sinking to the bottom of the ocean. Being able to handle these failure scenarios is a necessary condition to play proactive. This is one of the major reasons why we call so few shots: More often than not, a ("technically correct") baron call, collapse, engage, or gank (basically anything that requires more than one person) tends to just randomly make the match go boom due to poor coordination and misunderstanding. As long as the game is still going somewhat playably, we are simply afraid to touch any dials because we expect to get zapped (despite having an idea what SHOULD happen in principle). - Self-Reviews, Statistical noise, and the Power of Hindsight: When I go into the lane with a plan, it would be great if I could go back after the game and say “Hey, you stuck with the plan, let’s see whether it worked”. It would be lovely if the result was either “the plan was bad”, “the plan was good”, or “you didn’t execute it the way you intended”. Unfortunately, your stack of cards had the “your support runs it down” event on top, and you look at the review trying to find any correlation between the evolution of the match and your own actions. And now you run into problems. If you just accept that your support ran it down, you risk just building a rising stack of excuses for your own misplays. But if you don’t, you start looking for things to do different that might actually be detrimental. You often mention the 30/30/40 rule. Assuming that rule applies, how do you actually learn from the 30% (of either type)? You can have a higher level player look at things, but by yourself? One sentence that really struck me was what you said at 1:05:45: “… and they do one game where they do their job and lose and then doubt doing their job”. It’s not one game. It’s the days where you think you are doing your job and then lose and lose and lose, then stop giving a fuck and just do the most coinflip shit possible due to tilt, win 4 games in a row, and get honored by 3 people in all of them because your teammates mistook the bullshit you were fabricating for smurfing, that pull you off the path. In fact, based on such an experience by itself, “focusing on doing your job is at least irrelevant, possibly even detrimental” is a reasonable and logical conclusion.

[@dubious5859]

Ive felt like that too. I think playing by the book is a sure way to climb, but giving into and playing with chaotic nature of low elo soloq can give better results but is not as consistent and wont work as you climb higher.

[@ragegaze3482]

Can't address most the things you said but this part "t’s not one game. It’s the days where you think you are doing your job and then lose and lose and lose" That is actually the biggest red flag in my experience. That doesn't just apply to league either, but all competitive games, If you think you are playing very well but still keep losing, there is a blindspot in your gameplay that is major, that happens to me sometimes in rocket league, a game I am very high ranked in. Feel like my mechanical skill is peaking but yet I can't win, that's normally the biggest red flag I run across where I need to step back and look.

[@austinzobel4613]

Gotta download your guys podcasts... been finding myself with tons of time on the road! But I can never do anything with League thats just audio... but its a double whammy getting that and you both! Nowadays I just don't respect many of the others teachers in this entire community fully like I do you guys. I'm thankful for you guys openign up to below Gold because I'll be honest,I paid for quite a bit of Saltu but neglected to really reach out and get help with reviews becase I felt stuck in Silver and it was embarrassing, like I wasn't on the same level. But I believe I will get to Gold and to Platinum as my ultimate goal for now. I was a jungle Evelynn main... but I went on a quest to round out my game knowledge from mid... but fell in love with Mid. Kled mid is where I've settled for now. Syndra being my supplementary pick. Kled is insanely fun. I can't carry my games and I can't figure out where I'm going wrong. Hopefully I can get help figuring out my barrier. Thank you for your presence in the community Nathan and Curtis

[@eurechel]

Been a long-time listener, and I'm super excited by the new venture. I hope to take part in it, I actually signed up yesterday :) I think this will add more value than you realize, and I'm confident with your view and work ethic you'll both find a way to significantly add to the League community here. I appreciate you both taking the chance to try something new!

[@Pyridius]

When answering about the guy with the impossible question, I was really waiting for Curtis to say "League is not broken, it's broken by concept" with a cheeky wink to the camera :((

[@qzxerty]

Best episode of BBC so far. All hardstuck players should listen to it all.

[@Schmittvidslol]

I'm so excited! Thank you both for making this change. I love your guys content but always felt like a neutral observer. Now I can finally be a part of the process.

[@matefx]

glad to know about the tiktok dad. my mom is 58yo main support for years and has even got diamond!! salute to al veteran LoL players and lovers :)

[@Freakattaker]

38:40 I'm kind of mixed on this because on one hand they DO have a rubbish spaghetti code that is likely obscenely expensive and time consuming to re-do from ground up as well as work with whenever they need to add something complicated to the game like say, a sandbox scenario editor to recreate specific game situations. At the same time, they also, absolutely DO have the money as Coach Curtis says. They just don't want to invest into a sandbox tool because it costs more money than they're willing to part with. And also because the subset of players who would use this tool are very niche and few in number to begin with. It's not just diamond+ players who would likely get any sort of practical use out of it, it's a small percentage of THAT player base who would use it, then an even smaller amount who'd get consistent actual good use out of the tool. I can see why they don't invest into it since it's basically an opportunity cost thing. You could spend that money developing this very niche tool that would take years before seeing the light of day probably given the state of their game/client spaghetti. All while being a total pita to test and QnA. Look at how long it took for them to add replay functionality to the game despite it being a core feature for YEARS in their early competitor HoN, and the same with their current competitor DotA. Or how many years we went without even the current practice tool where you can quickly spawn a dummy, get gold, and have no CDs to practice your combos. They're just gonna funnel their money towards stuff Arcane 2, Project L, an MMO (just copy Genshin lolol), etc.

[@chesscankill]

Wdym small percentage? Even someone in low elo like myself would love to be able to practice laning and when to go for all ins in a practice tool, and then repeat scenarios until we have them down. The tough part for me about League is that you'll get into a situation, think you know what you should've done, but can't go and confirm it right away. Then you don't get into a similar situation until 50+ games later. By then, you might remember what the "correct" decision was, or you might not even recognize it as a similar situation. The uncertainty in practicing skirmishing, laning, teamfighting, etc. means that there can be multiple weeks in between repetitions of the same scenario.

[@mortystraphouse5077]

nah dude old man is right about promos; i got some crazy mismatches. i didnt look anyone up but we lost games buy 40kills +. i didnt play scared or different. when the game starts 25 kills to 1 kill it was bad matchmaking or u were supposed to lose. also ppl leave in promos. they afk. i just had an afk yumi. small sample size sure but ppl do get the short end of random lobbys

[@peterjbreuer]

I really wish y'all had a top-lane version of your program. There is so little content like yours for top lane.

[@immoralities]

Just signed up for the email at ML school! Seems really exciting. Illl be a Guinea pig lmao. And I legit just got to 30 TODAY. It’s the only reason I decided to watch this podcast because of my curiosity of ranked

[@praetorxak5361]

One super super important thing that I think you should include in the low elo stuff is a 'settings check'. Make sure they are off locked camera and are using some reasonable hotkeys. Also adding shift+qwer for normal cast abilities while quickcast all.

[@zoo3708]

yea thats a good point also things like not having some ridiculously high or low dpi

[@praetorxak5361]

@@zoo3708 Now listen I play on 3150 DPI because I came from SC2. Nothin wrong with that XD

[@zoo3708]

@@praetorxak5361 Yea I mean thats really really high but definitely playable im talking about people who are using like 16000 dpi or like 200

[@praetorxak5361]

@@zoo3708 I know, I just beat myself up over it sometimes, and my friends and I joke that I'm insane for doing it. I started playing shooters like Val on 2600 and I didnt know why i wasnt hitting anyone. Now i play on like 300 and its much easier haha

[@xazarl3381]

Even that c9 team with hai and stuff when they played tsm with regi. Only the mid laners had cs and it was still like 100-200 below what it is now. The top laners had like 1-2 items at like 38 min cos they always group mid over collect side waves.

[@My8osG]

Is there a way for top lane coaching?

[@fortcolors9887]

I think with your statement about runes and items not being focused on, there needs to be a caveat that you have to play consistently with the identity of your core items and runes. Grasp, conqueror, and phase rush all play out very differently. So do Goredrinker, divine sunderer, and heartsteel.

[@oW0LFP4CKo]

You got it backwards Curtis. You want to push your limits and learn the game as you climb. It's the way you learn matchups and spikes and team fight strategy. And then, when you start to plateau you want to pull back and consolidate knowledge. Limit testing teaches you what you are doing right, while playing conservatively and evaluating strategies teaches you what you are doing wrong. You have to learn your own limits every single game, and then try to understand those limits, so the next game you can push them again. Cheers guys!

[@Kresred]

I'm a main supp in B2 I agree there is not enough good content for that elo and I'll even say that supp content is even rarer no matters the elo. Still I'm learning , trying to watch high elo supp and make sens to what and why they are doing stuff. I watch a lot of content about other lanes and such in order to understand the game better. I've only done 25 games in rank this season and have a 61% WR so I think I'm improving slowly but surely. I will see where I end up before I start to stagnate again!

[@fortcolors9887]

there's a website called rankedle where you do exactly this at 1:13:20. guess ranks based on clips

[@VigilTheProtogen]

Seeing this title... good luck! Hope it gets you two some more clients and that they are responsive to your feedback

[@shinymuuma]

I start Wild Rift recently and understand how 'don't know how to move my character' feel like again. Don't know powerspike, wavemanagement, matchup, build, rune etc. Isn't the starting line. Don't know how to move my character, move my camera, aim my skill/auto. Can be someone's starting line. Which I take it for grant in PC.

[@mrpotato7734]

Vod review with actual replay file in client of POV VOD? I currently use my own POV vod so I can focus on myself and only go to the actual replay file if there's something I wanna find out or confirm. Thoughts? I play mainly midlane and 2nd role jungle

[@ProfessorSauvaje]

not just a challenge, a gold mine

[@ragegaze3482]

at 1:01:40 Curtis talks about the 1v9 mentality and how he disagrees with it. I personally think you can't just do your job and expect to climb, if you only do your job to standard then doesn't that mean you are at the rank you deserve to be? I thought the whole purpose of a ranked ladder was that the players that overperform go up and the ones that don't stagnate. Unless doing your job isn't in reference to your rank, but the ideal. Just curious on peoples thoughts on that.

[@mysticflow467]

29:30 actually my journey, started season 3, was stuck bronze, next season came, i probably hit gold within a month? idk I FLEW to gold I think, and been climbing since then, probably plat s5

[@Userre]

I don't know if this comment will be seen, but great podcast! Only issue I have is your guys' claim that the game isn't broken. The game is definitely broken in many many ways, but just not in the way most people complain about. The new player experience is rather neglected and needs major work. It could be solved through development of more competent iron-skill bots to ensure a fair environment for new players and yet there has been NO work there. Champion pricing methodology is very poor and needs to be completely adjusted to accommodate newer players. Resource division for game development is poor; most players agree with more reworks and less new champs and get the rework team can hardly get out 1-2 reworks a year. Champs like Shyvana and Twitch and Nocturne and Illaoi and so many more frankly need lots of gameplay work, and many more need complete visual updates like Jax. The game has improved a LOT in the 10 years that I've played it, but there is so many aspects of the game that are in desperate need of attention for years.

[@jaclow]

Another great video guys, glad to hear you’re challenging yourselves by trying to reach so much broader of an audience with your coaching. Keep on keepin on!

[@skaylingop9673]

If they want yo continue their career, they have to. Even if you wanted to coach strictly high-elo, their aren’t enough people willing to pay or willing to pay enough that it would ever be worth it. @neace is the goat of coaching because he’s the best coach, he’s the goat of coaching because he figured out low elo is an endless ATM of shitters trying to get better who refuse to look up the information themselves

[@mysticflow467]

1:23:00 do you think more champions makes the game more broken? I kind of think so, especially these new champions.

[@anti404]

Not having access to the review VoDs seems really odd - watching narrated reviews has been the crucial component to my improvement in League as I struggled to determine why I would lose games. The rest I totally understand.

[@zeldafan9656]

MLA has a KZbin channel with a lot of coaching sessions uploaded for free! It's not all of them, but it's a great place to start because the VODs there are handpicked for quality Edit: I also imagine that it's a technical limitation, due to the way the MLA website is structured

[@zoo3708]

I joined the mid lane school wait list but the email said I was on the academy wait list is that correct? Did I do something wrong

[@chi0224]

Nope, it’s always been the mid lane academy, you are all good.

[@zoo3708]

@@chi0224 cool hopefully I get the mid lane school Im really excited about it

[@eurechel]

I got the same thing, glad you asked!

[@Blackfrog67]

Hello Curtis and Nathan, just wanted to tell you that you guys are doing a great and import job for the community, not only to help us but also to improve the overall league experience for everyone. There is this guys who is a french Challenger : Gaëthan. This is his channel www.youtube.com/@gaethan_lol. He is a coach and a challenger top laner, and I think it would be awesome if you could do a show featuring him. I don't know if he would be up for it , but his way of thinking about the game is very inspiring just like you guys. He has a great mindset and is very honest. Even if it never happens I still wish you best from a french top laner ;)!!

[@vondoplays1630]

School of support takin over 🐐 💪

[@goblin380]

Whats the old guys channel? I wanna watch more of his stuff

[@friedchicken8440]

the intro line always gets me

[@toby2524]

Just missed this episode just joined the waiting list fingers crossed I get a slot asap ☺️

[@oW0LFP4CKo]

Would you guys consider coaching Wild Rift? The game mechanics and mindsets are almost identical, just some small tweaks to game pacing and matchups.

[@ProfessorSauvaje]

lots of profits for you guys

[@poi9784]

at least it wasn't a double nerf in a patch and item + a rune nerf like it went for Lillia in the pre season and 13.1 ^^ Maokai will probably stay pretty damn strong imo

[@DeMafiaGirl]

I struggle to limit test. I end up not going for plays unless I'm sure I won't grief the fight or lose the fight. The enxiety of league is real ngl... 😂 It feels like you're constantly being watched and judged

[@Andrew.Downing]

Do you guys find it worth reviewing for someone in bronze/silver (and as support)? I know alot of times you guys just stress getting the fundamentals down at that level and not sure if reviewing would help with that.

[@millenniumstarfury2482]

Need a Top Lane like this 💪💪💪

[@alonsosantos4668]

Why the guy with glasses is laughing on GamerDad in the 55:00 ? Why laugh at a sir that's a professor and a gamer?

[@nfefx]

Disrespectful and too immature to realize it. Which is hilarious considering Curtis looks like he's 39 already.

[@pr4360]

Does 'no one-to-one coaching' also mean 'no VOD reviews' for low elo?

[@emmett4497]

No Spotify?

[@BobFudgee]

Did you get a Haircut Curtis? Looking fresh af 🔥

[@netherby4335]

My favorite copium is: My jungler ALWAYS sucks! I get ganked over and over and my jungler never even ganks once!

[@BobFudgee]

For Luke if you want criticism join a discord inhouse. The people in those discords are around your rank Masters 0Lp all the down to arounf plat 3 and they will absolutely shatter your ego. Kind of gives you the I'll show you motivation. Although you will probably not learn much of value from the actual games unfortunately in fact a lot of misinformation is throughout these discords. So be careful of that

[@parra695]

Love the content guys, keep it up.

[@kirinkappa5662]

Most new league players are absolutely ruined from the start by their friends' narratives. People at account level 10 lasthit about 2 cs per wave, yet already know how to shift blame and not take responsibility for anything. They need help.

[@nicksmith516]

Holy shit, Luke, we must be the same person lmao

[@abrahamgarcia9753]

i didnt know liam payne played league

[@OnlyTidus]

This is why neace has a market

[@heavyflamerheresy2581]

The problem for old players from seasone. That nearly most of the old champs are reworked. So evrything you knew before is not worth anything anymore. And maybe your main will never be the same again. My mains was old GP and nunu, cause I played support. But non of thoes arent even abel to play support anymore. I played HoN alot before LoL. I was thinking of buying a beta for LoL. But I thought why pay for something I aldready have for free with HoN

[@Ancient_Path]

I’m silver and based on the title this is good news!

[@skaylingop9673]

Idk what it is, but something about this combination of shorts and camera angle is off-putting

[@younggod5230]

It's refreshing to see high elo players realize how out of touch they are with the vast vast majority of the player base. like "what?! people consider plat high elo??" yes! yes, obviously, most people are below plat

[@onni__xd]

Coach Curtis White

[@ThorkellTall]

Imagine if the people thinking the game is broken and unbalanced in 2023+ had to play against Kassadin in 2013-2015 🤣🤣🤣

[@gamera5160]

I'm not trying to make excuses for where I am on the ranked ladder, but I do think Riot manipulates ranked games to get you to keep playing. I have played games where I wonder if my team have their computers plugged in. Other times, the enemy team seems to be entirely populated with lobotomized lab rats. I feel like there is a percentage of my games that are free wins or auto-losses, not because of pure randomness, but because of deliberate manipulation by Riot to make the game addicting. Now, I still believe that you can climb because there are still games that feel competitive, but the feeling of the game being out of your hands is really discouraging.

[@ragegaze3482]

that's just the randomness of playing a 5v5 competitive game with each member not having the ability to solo carry. Different roles and champs will have different degrees they can solo carry games if at all, which makes league annoying to climb, in comparison to a game like valorant. Which is also very competitive but in that game all 5 players pretty much have a reasonable ability to 1v5 if they really have the skill to do so, that ability doesn't exist in league and makes it more tilting to lose. People literally script with perfect dodge scripts and vision hacks and aimbot and still lose games, if you did that in like any other competitive game you would have a 100% winrate. That just goes to show where the annoyance comes from imo

[@HANDLE4798]

You decided to coach below gold bc theres more players below gold and you want more money dont get it twisted

[@DrTomb]

I Love BBC (KZbin Channel)

[@naNyxxZ]

Those shorts ;o

[@ProfessorSauvaje]

they are the ones who need coaching the most

[@Dov101]

Why?

[@asetofnumbers]

We are their coaches. We help them learn and express their best selves.

[@gunproduction9995]

Guess the elo for league. do it

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

Maybe it's just a personal "me" thing, but I tend to play much better when facing smurfs, because a part of me accepts it's probably a loss so I'll take risks that probably nobody takes against them in my elo and it catches them off guard and forces them to make mistakes which I can capitalize to snowball. I'm not saying I win 100% of the time, but I do probably have a 50% winrate vs smurfing junglers. Half of the time, the risks I take pay off and I win, half the time they don't and I lose, but it's better than the 0% winrate I would have if I didn't take those risks. Also, as a jungler, it really helps me to see the ally and enemy's stats during loading screen. If I know my top laner is an autofilled support main, I need to adapt to that and not play towards that lane, even if theoretically I know it's the correct lane to play through because of matchup and whatnot. Curtis is right, I do play different when I know the winrates or stats on my teammates and enemies, but it's a matter of perspective and how you use them imo

[@cellobuddy251]

Midlane High would be such a good name!

[@mahmoudsafa1787]

Curtis bulking season

[@miroslavstoyanov4462]

Maokai

[@1xgt]

Second

[@christianbumstead8462]

Laughing at Gamer Dad wow so whack. The real joke is that you'll both be bald in 10 years and he's kept all his hair

[@calmfn143]

First

[@TheZiZaZo]

Dude on the left is cringe. Also not very nice to gamerdad.

[@reubenaberlin]

52:00 twitch.tv/gamerdad