Why won’t indie artists invest anything in marketing their music? 🤔

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Disc Makers CEO Tony van Veen is SO frustrated, and we hope you can help.
We all know it’s very difficult for an artist to break through today, to gain visibility and grow a fanbase. And yet, most artists won’t do - or pay - anything to promote themselves. (But they WILL pay a few grand for a third guitar when they already own two perfectly good ones. 😅) Why is that?
This is why Tony recorded today’s video, to explore the following:
- His theory on why artists won’t invest in marketing
- What parts of the music business today are easy and affordable vs. difficult and expensive (and how that has flipped over the past decade)
- How Tony knows from personal experience that artists won’t invest in marketing
- How much you should invest in marketing if you want to build a successful music career
We’d love to hear from you. If you’ve released music and haven’t spent money to promote it, why not? (Or if you did, why, and how much?) How, then, are you getting the word out about your music? And what would it take for you to do more marketing?
Let’s learn from each other.
LET'S CONNECT!
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#musicpromotion #music #independentartist #musicbusiness #protip #musiclife #indiemusician #musicbiz #indiemusicminute #CDs #vinyl

[@annimax]

One contributing factor is that I get bombarded by offers from people offering their paid packages to boost sales & streams. How does a new indie artist know which ones are legit? Which ones are scams? Exactly how much will they be boosted proportional to what I pay? It's hard to do a side-by-side comparison of which one is the best to invest in.

[@GigaTodd]

Once your music is available, there are too many phony promotion offers on the internet. 💯

[@DannyWeinkauf-RPB]

Tony, good points made. Can you now please put together a video outlining a few ways an indie artist can invest in marketing without getting scammed? please? thx

[@NormFarnumFamily]

I’ve been reluctant for years to spend anything on marketing… What I did spend, in good faith, had minimal and dismal results. I would like to be connected with someone or a team, with a very high marketing track record for artists’ album sales success. Please bring back your service! Sounds like y’all are best positioned to help in the IA world.

[@ReverendGreenAndTheDemons]

I do a little marketing and had a great idea for fellow musicians to support each other called the "online assault squad". Everybody knows that the algorithms favor share likes and comments immediately after posting to get them going , so if a message was sent when you put up content and every fellow musician in the system, actually watches and interacts with it, could be huge. Couldn't get anyone interested though.

[@mandelm2001]

Agree with most of the comments. Had I known about your service I would have tried it. Lots of scammers out there and most are not effective. No way to know beforehand.

[@JimBaumer]

I've decided I'm all-in for 2024, investing in my music. Have just seen my streams on Spotify jump 70 percent over the last three weeks from feeding the algorithm monster, and pimping my latest single. Meta marketing is effective. But you need to have a goal in mind. Great video, Tony.

[@xalliandix]

I’d say the reason I don’t invest in marketing is because I can’t ensure that I’m going to make that money back. I don’t have the faith in myself to spend money on marketing in the right ways. So I’m scared that I’ll just be kissing that money goodbye.

[@tonyvv]

Yeah, I get that. It's logical, and I'm sure many artists feel the same way. But you don't feel that way when you invest in recording?

[@xalliandix]

@@tonyvv yes and no with recording. I think *because* that time/money is spent on actually creating art, for some reason it’s justifiable.

[@owanams]

​​@@tonyvvwhy should I feel I won't get results from recording section when I can clearly listen to the recorded music after spending. The quality will be visible to my ear. But after spending $100 for marketing and Spotify pays $10 for the result. It's like buying products to sale and in turn loose 90% of my capital, what's the wisdom in that?

[@stevengovorchin]

I like the fact that these music marketing companies exist. Their existence is an expression of freedom in our economy. But I share your concern. I would be more inclined to sign with one of these companies if they took a percentage of the revenue, rather a fee up front. I believe that they charge for their services because they know that their program will not yield profitable results.

[@Standswithsong]

Tony perhaps some artist are hesitant to promote because of the many scammers out there. Or services that only provide bots but not actually people who listen to our music. Maybe if you can list YOUR top recommended 10 reputable marketing services in this chat that would help inspire marketing movement for people. On a different note... I used the service disc makers provided as a platform years ago and I loved it! I also happen to release and marketed a CD Advertising that service the same week you all shut it down, I was so devastated. But life goes on... Im still here learning and growing! 😅❤

[@mjkoller1435]

I second Everything he said

[@christophercaruso603]

Hi Tony, Agree with you completely. I think what would be most helpful is someone to advise the artist on how to create and maintain a marketing plan. In other words, what to do. With this kind of help I think artists would be more willing to spend on marketing knowing that they have a well though out, and advised, plan. Great video. Thanks.

[@jay-leeofficialcctv]

I think people dont invest in marketing because they dont know good strategies or where to go to get it done for themselves.

[@tonyvv]

Yes, it can be overwhelming. But doing nothing ain't gonna help... Start small and simple, learn, and grow.

[@johndickson5665]

John Wesley Dickson here- First: THANK YOU! At 73, I have been writing and NOT marketing for 55 years. With your manufacturing service, I have issued seven albums of original, conceptualized songs. I do not know if I am afraid of rejection? As I am preparing this to send to you, I see behind my computer, I note that I have been stalling on submitting a USA Songwriting entry for two+ weeks! Geez- as Bugs Bunny would say, "What a 'maroon'! I will view your supportive video again. Please know how grateful I am! JWD

[@axpanthia]

Hi Tony. Great video. I have to comment. I started playing guitar when I was 14. (1974) I loved learning and playing and practised 5 hours a day on it for years. I always wanted to make an album. When I was in high school I joined a band and we were going to do just that. Couldnt afford to do it as our parents laughed when we asked for help financing our album. Dad said there is no money in music and I should persue a career as an electrician as he did. So we started touring. He was right. At $200 a week pay ( for 6 nights and move to the next town on Sundays ) it was much less then a server in a coffee barista. Then we paid for recording with a high end recording studio which cost us $4000.00 for a single and a B side. Then the music business kicked in and I realized that after 10 years of learning music, practising, touring with a hot band and recording a single that promoting it was going to cost $100K. I asked where are we to get the money for that and the recording studio said ask family and friends to help. Obviously no one wanted to take the risk including our road manager, booking agent or recording studio. So nothing happened and I have a copy of the single on cassette tape ha ha ha. NOW !!! 50 years later music is free just like water. You just reach in and scoop out as much as you want. We didn't have you tube back then so if I wanted to get an album of my favourite band I had to go to a record store and buy it, which was about 4 hours labour as a first year electrical apprentice. Water was free back then. If you want to make money out of it just as it was 50 years ago you will need to promote your music as well as purchasing everything involved in the recording. So... nothing has changed!!! Yes you can try to promote yourself but you will be spending more time and effort promoting and learning all these platforms out there ( as well as paying for them in the form of ads ) than you would crafting your music. I recommend hiring a promoter. Maybe you might get some money from your work and financial investment. ( which sometimes feels like a risky stock market investment ). Much like an artist spends many hours on a painting and at the end he has a painting for sale. Anyone want it? Now what.? John Lennon said he Paul, George and Ringo were not involved in the Beatles' marketing. I can believe that. You are right Tony, You have to market yourself and guess what everyone ???? Nothing has changed except now you can record at home (and you better be good at it) and you now have the world as an audience if you know how to reach everyone ( and you better be good at it and have the finances). Don't get me wrong I cherish my experiences in music and still play and record music to this day. I still have the dream of making a succesful album and still persuing it. Why don't Indie artists invest in themselves ? Hmmmm. Because they are too busy investing in a more reliable job to buy their third guitar or recording session or promote their album. How many streams on Spotify do you need to make 4 dollars ? ...Around 100,000 streams. Seem daunting ??? That's $40 for 1 million streams. Now if you could sell 1 million cd's at 10 bucks each....=$10 million. Hmmmmmn.

[@michaelnorth3785]

I am the perfect example of a musician who recoils at the entire Marketing-Mindset. I would love the results but I hate where I have to put my thinking ... I wonder sometimes if all the the negativity I feel comes from "being advertised to". I have to get passed that somehow, I know ...

[@Jason75913]

For every artist and business, it is literally "market yourself or die." Some folks made it big without marketing, but they were just super lucky (basically, others did it for them). Some folks will even tell you that what you are trying to sell is _secondary_ to marketing what you want to sell. But I'm pretty sure networking is a priority over even marketing, as far as music.

[@ChaosNetwork]

Hey Tony, a lot of Independent artists don't know or want to know the business part of music. Period. No matter how easy it gets to market, it's still not something artists wants to do. That's it. I had money and spent it on marketing but didn't set up royalties right. Now I know how to set up royalties, but don't have money to spend on marketing. My cash flow is really weak and I spend it on food and car maintenence. I'm mastering Credit and banking so I can invest properly in marketing.

[@grimeychops8288]

Great vid! I was told the music biz is 5% music 95% biz. Today if artists aren’t educating themselves or just getting a grasp on the biz, it will only lead to frustration and failure. The key is taking the time to learn.

[@johnjeter9169]

Great video, Tony. I teach Music Business at two universities and owned and bought talent for a 500-cap concert hall for 20 years. The paradigm you mention comes down to Art vs. Commerce. Artists don't market because: >> Every artist is a small business. >> Every business needs a brand. A brand is a story. >> Most artists believe their songs are their stories. A song tells a story, it's a product. The artist is the story, that story is the brand. No artist story, no business. >> What your small business (your art) contributes to my small business (my ears) is **your** business. Make me believe in your business. Then I'll connect with your product.

[@igotyourback9175]

I help an independent artist market and promote his music and here's a huge problem that we kept coming up against. We've paid hundreds of dollars to different marketing groups, making claims to get the music to our target audience but it's all just translating to numbers. Even on Facebook, Instagram and established platforms, we paid for promotion and the numbers are there but no proof that real people actually heard the music. Those numbers never transfer over to the number of monthly stream counts where the money counts. In other words, it seems that darn near everybody is using bots and not real people. So, we see that we are just paying for the appearance of promotion and not gaining a dime on the back end. It's as if they've rigged the whole thing so that only industry level artists can really be seen and heard. Seems the only way to know that your music is being heard by real people is to get out there and get right in front of them and sing or play it. I think that this may be what other independent artists are doing as well.

[@music4younet]

A good point here! Recognizing oneself as a small entrepreneur in the music industry is crucial for success. Artists who understand their market, know their audience, and deliver what their audience wants are better equipped to view marketing not as an unnecessary expense but as a valuable investment in their career. Shifting the mindset from being a hobbyist to the entrepreneur of one-self, from just creating music to actively creating a supportive community (of "buyers") using the music, makes the difference.It's all part of our coaching programs. But even here: few artists want to learn how to become the CEO of their own career. Unfortunately there is no magic stick! And when there is one - it's the exception that confirms the rule. However, we stay positive.

[@adrianpedrin]

After reading various comments, it's clear to me that there is a need for more clarity in the world of marketing, and yes, all your concerns are entirely valid. I'll be writing an article detailing the marketing process for a band. This will include my experiences with a client of mine, what strategies succeeded, and what didn't, the current progress, and our goals for the next year. Regarding your question about why artists won't invest in marketing Tony, some comments have already touched on this, and I understand their perspective. They wish to see a return on their investment. It took me several years to adjust my mindset and understand that the return on investment could take years and that sometimes the return isn't in the form of money but knowledge. Also, I'd like to add that, yes, my KZbin channel is in Spanish, but I'm a bilingual American. This allows me to bring a unique perspective to both English and Spanish-speaking audiences. Feel free to DM me with any questions you might have. I'll be offering my consulting services free of charge.

[@livinGhost88]

I'm looking forward to your article. I'm really curious about what you're going to discuss in it on this subject. It's something I didn't really even think about until recently, when I started taking music more seriously, so this video is almost like a gold mine, for me. Including seeing the input of other comments.

[@melissawelsh3289]

@adrianpedrin I'm looking forward to reading your article as well. Where should we look for it? Thank you for sharing.

[@amsawise]

Selling and marketing are left brain skills which have to be studied and learned. Creating music is rooted in the right brain. Spotify, Apple, and Tital promote and market their businesses where the creative artists rely on fractions of a penny for income. Until the artist learns the value of selling and marketing their music, they’ll continue to go broke, but have their music to comfort their broken hearts.

[@user-jf1id5wu9z]

Hi Tony...The reason musicians are wary about spending money on advertising is that most of those services are seen as shakedowns and scams....and most times rightfully so.....

[@rgwilliamson]

Great advice and points Tony. I spend nothing but time on creating my music right down to the cover artwork, I spend $49 on (lifelong) distribution but it has only been recently that I started to market my music seriously. I definitely spend more than $49 on marketing through legit promotional sites and I will say that it is money well spent. My streams are up and my followers are up as a result. It's certainly a long term, building process that will take time but if it garners more "real" listeners, that is invaluable.

[@tonyvv]

Awesome, tell me more. What marketing tools are working for you?

[@itaikrissvideos]

Thanks Tony! I'd love to market my music better and I'm even open to spending my hard earned money on it, but I don't know how and where.I'd love to see a video detailing options for effective marketing available to independent artists today.

[@jamesgreer4948]

Tony, people are not buying cd's today and not making any money on streaming. I'm open to hearing how to get my music heard and paid for.

[@tonyvv]

1. Make great music. 2. Play out regularly. 3. Put on a great show. 4. Build a mailing list and a social following. 5. Engage with them regularly. All of these are critical. If you can't perform regularly it all gets much, much harder.

[@rhsilverberg]

I spent $10,000 on promotion to radio stations for my last album, The Old Dog, back in 2016. I knew it was a toss of the dice but what I was looking for was some accountability. I got very few pick-ups -- looking for radio play -- and yet it was, in my humble opinion, a very good album. I know there's no guarantees but that was a big gulp for me. (The album cost me about $13,000 not including the replication and packaging by DiscMakers). Since then, I've only been putting out digital singles. I don't like it, but at my age, I can't afford to gamble too much. And, believe me Tony, I love physical media.

[@jm302music]

Great compelling video, Tony! I would be perfectly happy to spend the money on the marketing. And I see the wisdom of doing it. But as so many others here have said . . . . where? On what? Do I advertise in the local paper? Put an ad on the local radio station (are those still a thing?)? Pay "Slim Shady's Spotify Playlist Service" a thousand bucks for a "GUARANTEED million streams a week"? Please tell me where I can INVEST my money and not just flush it down the toilet!

[@wesleymarkmusic403]

Thanks Tony. Great info and advice.

[@pbenson56fran]

You are so right about marketing. I must say I guess I am guilty sometimes. I need to get my act together. Thanks for the real deal help.

[@davidkurimsky9269]

Lots of music promoters are interested in selling the appearance of popularity. ie. "We'll get your numbers up, don't ask us how" rather than approaching music in a traditional marketing way ie. "We'll help you identify and target probable consumers". Doesn't make them scammers exactly (although they are out there as well) but it seems that promoters often have different metrics for success than artists do.

[@DavidWesley]

I think artists need to be convinced that there will be a proper return on investment. My biggest stream of revenue is Patreon, followed by KZbin, then music streaming. Patreon has been so reliable that actually releasing music commercially is an afterthought. Why spend on licensing and distribution for covers when they may break even?

[@GuillermoCuellarTrovAutor]

I can recognize that you made a good point again. As an independent artist, I am truly interested on grow my fan base and important income return after puting money from my pocket (recording procese, authoring registration, distribution payment, banks fees, an a few more things). Afterwards, I think that, as an independent artist, certainly I have this feeling of lack of reliable and lack of control about the promise we the artist receive from the Promotion iniatives.

[@GuillermoCuellarTrovAutor]

Good point. I am totally agree with this.

[@timbranniganmusic3458]

Great video, thanks Tony.

[@joeeddie]

Tony, great question! In the past year I have consistently been spending $100/week to promote my music, to the tune of $5K. My main key performance indicator is the growth of my email list. I have this theory that a fan in my email list is worth two in the crowd. My list has grown from virtually zero to over 6,000 subscribers in the past year. It is a lot of work, sometimes an overwhelming challenge to maintain, and yes an expense. I do see some return, but not quite enough (yet!) to break even. Despite that, I now have more of a career than I ever had before spending on this kind of promotion, and I have a lot of hope for my future as an artist. Thanks for the dialogue! 🤘

[@tonyvv]

6000 subs is impressive! Keep up the good work, it will pay off...

[@germoneysuniverse7908]

I'm failing at non-artist life in modern society which takes almost all of my money for rent and barely leaves enough to eat. I literally can not manage to even set aside money for advertising. I've been trying for years and years and only had ad money once or twice. Whenever I was able to advertise my music for a 3-4 month time span the results where very clear: it was extremely worth it and would have been even more efficient with long term consistency. But what am I to do when I simply can't manage to come up with any money to keep advertising?

[@TheVoiceInYourHeadd]

If you will bring this service back I will try it. I never knew it existed.

[@angrinose467]

It’s hard now to focus on the most viable channels to promote our work. It takes time to do the research and select the right direction.

[@derrickjohnson8504]

You just answered your own question towards the end part of your video. It feels like working a job A lot of people use Music as an escape-ism from maybe the harsh realities of life and especially working a job that they don’t like so when the music Has to be treated like a full-time job And more energy Hass to be focused on promoting and doing the work behind it it’s not fun!! There’s a rule in certain music genres if it’s not fun you’re done an about your music career choose another one. Meaning if you don’t like what you do you through! So no,no one wants to spend all that time and then the money to do something that they feel is Like working a Damm Job!

[@JDCottonMusic]

Good question, Tony! I've spent modest amounts on FB campaigns with no noticeable effect on streams. I've given up on selling tangible media and fighting for streams. Just recently I've hired a promoter, to find markets for my songs (film, ads, song shopping) and I'm hopeful it'll help.

[@germoneysuniverse7908]

BTW very important to take into account: 65% of Americans don't even have $500 saved up to deal with an emergency, for example unexpected medical bills or a car repair. I can't even pay an unexpected $100 bill. It literally will go to collections or I am forced to go deeper into debt, if I can even find somebody to loan me the money, which has gotten extremely rare in this day and age. I know hundreds of wonderful, talented, creative, intelligent, kind, caring people in the same position. We're barely surviving out here, I for my part have been dying to spend money on advertising my music for years and years and just can't seem to get to a place where I even have an extra $100 flying around. You have to realize, myself and many, many people out here can't even afford the most basic medical services to take care of our basic physical needs. Which clearly would take priority over advertising, basically I'm saying as much as I dream of advertising and getting my music out there, it's currently so far out of reach. Times have changed.

[@melissawelsh3289]

Absolutely! We just finished recording our album. We started in 2021. We go to the studio when we can afford to so every piece of this has been and will continue to be slow and little by little. Considering the potential scams, I'll need some pretty compelling non-bot reviews before I can invest in marketing. I'm sure it can help, I'm just not sure how to know what is actually effective and what's a waste of money.

[@willnewsome6222]

Being an artist that’s currently signed to a short term digital deal, I’m still independent on many fronts. The cost of doing a terrestrial radio campaign for a single (30 days) runs $10k plus (plus payola). Without investors that’s not a reality for me, so I’m left to thinking outside the box when hitting newer/repeat markets. Tour buy-ons are still a thing, ranging $8k-30k for a 6 week run. This would guarantee playing in front of good crowds, but recouping monies from merch sales alone isn’t a viable option at the moment either. So that leaves splitting my time playing in a cover band (making bank), and in turn funding my recording and merch for my original band…still hoping to get picked up for licensing. Love the videos and the sound advice as always! Cheers!

[@D2theGRecords]

Bring back the service! I don't believe it was available at check out when we ordered cd's . We even get the commemorative for every project since 2014. 19 albums to date, but as of recent you no longer attach a "Congratulations on your release letter" which meant a lot. Since the separation between Disc makers and CD Baby along with CD Baby no longer distributing physical cd's and your service has not offered any alternatives through your service besides mentions. Your team has always been awesome any time it comes to issues when pressing cd's but with the changing landscape is there going to be more than purchasing cd's, USB's etc from Disc makers moving forward? Offer the marketing service again!?

[@MatthewDFritz]

I went deep into music marketing years ago. I didn't spend tons of money, but I did spend tons of time. I got maybe 1 CD sale from it, so it left a bad taste in my mouth. I was, however, able to make a small profit selling CD's to friends for a while but eventually, they declined to pay for CD's that they couldn't play. A few years ago, I just decided to rely on streaming and royalty income to cover the cost, which it does, and I give away all my music, even CD's if I get them made. Music is free today, and I enjoy making it. Now I have a cheap hobby that I love which pays for itself with very little of the "work" of marketing, and that's fine with me.

[@MatthewBlakeley-dh1kc]

First off. Thanks for that insight. This video actually gave me some inspiration to save up money for marketing, I actually considered selling some moog studio gear for fundings. My band time toad is an independent act, and we will be releasing a new dance album this summer, so I better start saving for promotion now. Also I would consider doing business with your company. Thanks again.

[@DiscMakers]

Give us a call when you are ready, we'd love to work with you. 🎶💿 856-290-8274

[@dalefriday5496]

Here's my 2-cent stupid question: I see ads in my facebook stream and in youtube "shorts" all the time which are videos of apparently independent artists and groups performing an original song. When I encounter them I think to myself, "How did they get on my timeline? We're not friends on facebook. I've never even heard of them and they live a thousand miles or 5,000 miles from me!" Now, I know they did SOMETHING to get that video to that format, but I haven't a CLUE as to how they did it. Can you shed any light on this? My group, "Dennis Gurley & The EggMen" just recorded a new album and bought our first 100 CDs from Discmakers.(Excellent job, by the way) We have around five grand in the album. I would gladly spend another grand to get the album and our name "out there" if I knew which roads to take, which doors to open. We have a small but dedicated fan base and even have some fans in Europe who have ordered a copy of our CD. We sold over half of them in about two weeks and still expect to re-order, but we also know that our fan base is limited. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for the encouragement you always give in your videos.

[@Johnkano]

I love your messages!!! ❤💯 Thank You! your fan John Kano

[@BarbaraWilsonArboleda]

Watching the video, I thought of two things 1) I just don't know how. I can make my own graphics and links, but setting up the campaigns and understanding how to make the ads work for me has been a mystery to me every time I've tried to do it (even for non-music work); if there were an affordable "ad agency" for artists that knew this stuff it would be FABulous. To speak to the concern of other commenters, though I has to be legit. There are too many scammers out there. So if Diskmakers is looking for it's next offering...I'm just sayin'; 2) I thought of a conversation with a friend who felt uncomfortable crowdfunding for anything other than the bare essentials of the production. Somehow it was off the table to crowdfund for the marketing or even a small profit for himself. It speaks I think to the mindset we've all been colonized with that our work isn't worth "real" money.

[@tommychappell]

I agree and do believe marketing might very well be the most important component in a successful campaign. I spend money on marketing, but I'm never sure I'm spending with the right people or in the right place. I simply say some of the money spent on marketing will be good money spent and some will be bad money spent. That's how business works there's never a guarantee on ROI. Very few products are successful without marketing. It's necessary.🙂

[@philz7227]

Who is buying music and where do they buy it? It isn't Spotify. Fans of working bands buy merch. If you aren't out playing, where are the fans? There's so much free music or free with a nominal subscription, that the music buying public doesn't seem to be there. Any marketing plan needs to know where the market is and how to reach people willing to buy. Urging artists to do marketing is one thing. How to market seems to be where the questions remain.

[@JohnPaulRiger]

I plea guilty. I’m great at creating content. I need to improve my marketing efforts. The reason? I’m not really sure I know what marketing is nor how to do it. Please advise a list of things that I can do to market my new albums? I mean those things that I can do to create a campaign for improved success? My goals are to sell albums, get more gig my career snowball! Thank you! All your videos are incredibly informative. Thanks so much for sharing and for all you and every art disc makers for so many! 🙏🌎

[@prudawalkman7571]

Tony is straight up no chaser

[@TjEdwardz]

Good video

[@RogerWilsonGuitar]

Tony, Any suggestions on what marketing avenues you might lean toward?

[@brucematthews2771]

We don't know how. It's not fun. We can't afford it. We don't have the knowledge or confidence to access the expertise needed.

[@pbenson56fran]

With me I needed to be more balance on priorities. I did a little marketing but did most of it verbally. I know that's not what you were talking about.

[@tonyvv]

Well, that’s marketing too, but your reach is tiny. You need to figure out how to reach more suspects who might like your music. Just talking to people won’t get you there.

[@pbenson56fran]

@@tonyvv thank you

[@lynnetaylor4461]

Hi Tony! First of all, I love and appreciate your videos! I do, and have spent money on marketing… Mostly on radio promotion to Folk radio which is basically my demographic. I am always confused about what marketing will get me the most bang for the buck? Can you recommend affordable companies for folk/Americana artists?

[@tonyvv]

I've gotten a lot of questions about this. It's a tough one to answer, because a) there are a lot of scammers out there using black hat tactics to get streams (from streaming farms and fake playlists), and b) even legitimate marketing or PR agencies can't guarantee success. I'm going to have to give it some thought...

[@owanams]

Marketers charge too much for promoting our songs. If I spend on a music instrument I can use that instrument to produce hundreds of music. If I spend on a recording section I immediately will listen to the result at the end of the section. And the recorded music is for life. However with marketing I can spend a $100 and get a result of Spotify paying $10. Its like buying goods to sale and after sale you lose 90% of your capital. What is the wisdom in that? Please 🙏 tell me.

[@jamesgreer4948]

Tony, Money is not the problem. Getting your music heard on mainstream media is. Most people are not listening to local radio much these days, so what does it cost to get your music heard on xm radio? Where is the connection inside hookup? How do we get there cause I've spent lots of money with your company, spoitfy, cdbaby etc.

[@SkullySOTW]

We spend no money on recording as we own the studio and the studio pays for itself as it is set up as a rehearsal space for other artists and that pays the upkeep and rent for the space has been for over 20 years. So indeed, most of the money and time spent does get spent on marketing. But - as many have mentioned here - a lot of that social media marketing and such are huge scams and does very little in return of broadening an audience. After listening to your video - and you welcoming ideas where CD baby might be able to help - I think CD baby might think about setting up some investigating and come up with a viable, legitimate list of company's that do indeed actually help your artists in finding a larger audience. By doing this - obviously it would not only help the artists - in turn - it would help CD baby and the legitimate marketing company's. And yeah - it's still gonna cost to hire these companies. But, at least by setting up a list of "truly legit" companies with great track records in all aspects, is what is needed for the poor, starving, and possibly lazy artist to gain "faith" in diving into it. Also those companies should also keep in mind that "the Artists" are mostly tired, and lazy, beaten down, with lack faith and need things laid out simple for them. And - also keep in mind our current rough economy. The cost of living has gone through the roof. Remember a great old quote "The answer to 99 out of 100 questions is money"

[@ZevMeth_originaljewishmusic]

On an aside, I don't like spending money on music videos because I don't think I'll make my money back, and while it may help me ,one term, it'll take forever till that happens!

[@eduardoalegriarampante639]

Im realising my new album in May. This time im going to try harder, but honestly it all feel like bullshit. I see the people around me who are doing all the spending like you suggest and i dont really see them doing much better. It is then totally normal and an option to decide not to waste money like that. What is working for me is concentraiting on nurishing my audience with the best music i can posibly produce. Let's see what happens this time...

[@brightworldmusic2114]

In some cases it may be - let’s get the music done and out there and test the waters before spending - which isn’t effective. Also the old thought of feeling self indulgent to self promote.

[@user-jh2oj1hs2j]

I have been promoting and doing my own booking for the Stan Kenton Legacy Orchestra for the past 32 years. You don't talk about marketing for TOURING and booking dates. At least for jazz artists, that is almost more important than promoting recordings. In these times, I can sell a LOT more product at live concerts than on line. I'm not very interested in Spotify and all those platforms that hardly pay any royalties at all. So - I really spend more time and effort promoting, than spending funds on marketing. I too, am inundated with emails from marketing companies that mostly talk about getting your recordings on social media, etc. That doesn't work for jazz. And - most of these companies only really know how to promote pop and rock artists.

[@therealmonicalynnechase]

Since disc makers doesn’t offer a marketing package do you recommend another company that does?

[@JohnPaulRiger]

My post is riddled with errors that I can’t edit. I can’t type well in a moving car on a phone. 🤣👍

[@axpanthia]

That's a short question with a very long answer. :)

[@jfiegen]

The last marketing professional I spoke with (and there have been many)said "I don't listen to your music, I put you on touch with the "Right People" who can help you". She charges over $2000.00 for that service.

[@melissawelsh3289]

Eww. She said that and she's in marketing? 😂

[@matthewzadak]

Maybe a lack of business education as well as a lack of self-esteem and coupled or paired with poor choices. Marketing is daunting. It could be indie artists need a spark for a business start-up. Like a launch. Overcoming burn-out too. Stuff like that and yada yada yada. Laziness. Bad posture.

[@o7songbird]

Tony - I don't believe it is about money at all. It's about belief that your music is something other people want to hear. In my case, I spent a whole lot more than your example of $3,000 to create the album (well, all 7 of them). That, in itself, was an act of courage. I put them on CD Baby and some people bought some, but it was never anything even a homeless person could live on. I would have starved if I had to live on what CD Baby and all of it's affiliates paid. I looked at that and said to myself, "darn, I thought it was pretty good." But. the only conclusion I can really draw is that it's not. How many people show up for American Idol auditions who believe they're a wonderful singer? Lots! Just because when people hear me in person, they love what they hear apparently does not mean anything more than that these people are kind and want to give you a pat on the back. But. When it really gets down to it, you're just not good enough to actually buy any of my music. So... paying for promotion sounds like a way to spend even more money just to embarrass yourself in front of a larger audience. I put myself out there. I got shot down. Now, I still want to record, so that my grandchildren can have a glimpse into who I was, but I don't want to be kicked around any more. It's painful. I even paid for people to listen to some of my songs and write their critiques. Wow! That hurt. Some of them said they hate my genre and just couldn't listen to it. Lots of people who wanted to impress me about how much they know musically and usually they had no clue - using terms wrong and other things. Bottom line- if a person can't get any kind of a positive response, they don't want to embarrass themselves more. If I thought that promotion would actually succeed, I'd do it. I can't get people to actually listen. The really frustrating thing is that when they DO listen, most of the people love what they hear. I get comments like, "your music is always on at my office" and "I listened to that album all 6 hours of my drive to..." and "best version of Amazing Grace I've ever heard." But. most people won't even click play. Putting yourself out there is discouraging. A little success would help a lot, but all I have is discouragement.

[@niasintellectualproperties7780]

I’ve actually spent varying amounts on marketing! The returns rarely justify the actual expenditures 🥺 If there was a credible way to get around all of these “barriers to entry” I’d utilize it, but it needs to be credible !! I can’t even get on an “Official Spotify Playlist” and I craft quality music and have a respectable # of streams for an Indie Artist! . significant amount of scams abound in marketplace. All of these constitutes barriers to entry on some level and frustrates people into by passing marketing in my opinion

[@josefernandocortes7404]

Every promo seems like a scam and that could be a big problem with spotify for example. I would invest in a promotion if it looks legit. When I read the reviews on most of those promo companies there's a lot of complaining. Maybe its a good opportunity to bring back the "ads for artist" program we surely need someone with a solid background to trust the promo.

[@LindaMckenziemusic]

Not knowing where to invest money in marketing my music is a big hold back for me. I don't know where my money should be spent in marketing? I could spend it and be wasting it by unknowingly paying the wrong person. Since I don't know where to spend marketing dollars or who to trust, I don't do anything. Where should I be spending marketing dollars with a legitimate company or person? I really don't know, so I don't do anything. Seems like I might as well throw cash out the window of a moving car if I don't know who I'm hiring or if they are doing what they claimed to offer. Is there a better to market, perhaps one way over another? I receive what I believe to be a lot of fake offers from "one stop marketing shops" claiming to "do it all" for you in the music marketing department ... but I don't trust these solicitations. A confused mind will say "No". So that's where I'm at. But I agree with you, we do need to spend money on marketing, but where? And who are the legit workers in this field?

[@markpulsipher5799]

Dude I'm all over making AD'S & put them all over social media

[@tonyvv]

Seeing any results?

[@markpulsipher5799]

@tonyvv I did see results going through your AD'S for Artist when it first started up & then I started doing it on my own for last 7 months.

[@ricallan7706]

Hey Tony, Now that Disc Makers marketing platform is kaput, why aren't you telling us--not just generally to market our own music--but with whom? Hmm?

[@jazz1thesoloist]

Could it be the feeling of "THE IMPOSTER SYNDROME....?" Sometimes I think "ARTISTS" get caught up, with "GEAR ACQUISITION" rather than the "TALENT" that is within. I also think, maybe it's the feeling that they need this particular "ITEM," or "PIECE-OF-EQUIPMENT" to be "VALIDATED" as a legitimate producer, or musician. "MARKETING" probably gets pushed to the side, because an "ARTIST' may not feel comfortable with their "SKILL-SETS...!" Or, maybe there is the thought of not being 'BUSINESS" minded, to carry-out a "PROMOTIONAL" campaign. I have dealt with this kind of "THINKING" myself. And, I am a 'HOBBYIST, who is "TESTING" my own "MARKETING" efforts. But this is a "GOOD QUESTION...!"

[@aubreybjork2070]

When you say "marketing," what exactly do you mean? Do you mean maintaining an online presence? Do you mean paying for ads, printing ads in local papers, walking down the street wearing a Jamba juice banana? Also, does any of that actually work? I think the main problem for me is knowing what ACTUALLY works, and not just emptying energy into "marketing" as a buzzword without actually seeing results.

[@carlb3712]

I'd consider spending more money playing farther from home before I'd invest too much more in marketing. Rent a van, or splurge for a hotel room. New people seeing you play is probably the best marketing anyhow. Try opening for a band outside your usual sphere that's popular and might have the same fan base as you. Or, if you don't do live shows, taking the time to make a clever video might be a good investment. Any phone can take video and there's cheap or free video editing software out there.

[@tonyvv]

100%!!! But splurge on a cheap hotel room, not an expensive one. 😉

[@davidrickard9869]

We don't care if we make it or money our simple goal is vinyl - last quarter 3800 streams = 6 bucks so we under no illusion we will be anything we are a bedroom can't afford it man it's that simple CASH

[@tonyvv]

Vinyl? I know a place… 😉

[@davidrickard9869]

@@tonyvv in Melbourne

[@davidrickard9869]

@@tonyvv because I live 10 minutes away from one in east Brunswick I've been talking to

[@getopoet9710]

Because you can hold it when you buy it.Might be a scam nothing but scams now a days.

[@genuinefreewilly5706]

Well its understood that particular gigs have perks. My part time gig gives me some free food. KZbinr's get attention and some get free vsts and hardware. There are always perks in nearly every workplace. Few tangible perks being a practiced musician exist anymore. I am too old and cynical for all the marketing grift that exists today. Its way over the top and impossible to navigate and take seriously

[@KikoJonesUSA]

The thousands of dollars spent on gear, recording, etc. are almost guaranteed to bring joy and/or a sense of accomplishment-spending on marketing and promotion is almost guaranteed to not bring joy and/or a sense of accomplishment. Why? Scam artists. Also, campaigns that yield little to no results are no fun…and expensive.

[@acousticjoint]

0.5% of the artists make it in the music industry. That means 99.5% are wasting their money. Find areas where you can promote your music for free, and do it often. If the music is good, people will resonate to it.

[@strass2u]

The term "marketing" is too vague. Market to who? My fan base? I don't have one. The general population? Sure, take out an ad on TV, or full page ad in Rolling Stone, but that isn't being realistic.

[@OutbreakMonkeyMusic]

I think of it like this. It's simply calling an artists bluff. Anybody can act like a badass and larger then life behind the microphone, but when it comes to backing that act up with some money for promotion... crickets. They know they're nothing special and almost confirm it with their actions.

[@D2theGRecords]

Still waiting on a reply. Ok Now the landscape has changed lets not buy cds since music is digital provide what your preaching as far as marketing and make the service that you once provided available again so I can try

[@tonyvv]

That service is not coming back. We offered to do it all for artists, and they didn’t want it. At least, not in numbers large enough to make the service worth keeping around. I will give some thought though to a video about marketing, or maybe marketing services.

[@JulianAngelMusic]

The best marketing method I have ever used is sending promo copies (yes, in the mail*) to operators of music blogs and music websites deep down in my very niche, to get reviews and eventually interviews later down the road. MIDiA Research recently published that fans who discover music on blogs and websites as well as in magazines are the fans who spend the most money on music and merchandise. It takes time and effort, but it only costs postage and an envelope. Or 50 envelopes if you do it right. *) Why send hard copies? Because an official CD is usually the only reward the bloggers and other music maniacs who host their own website or online radio show get.

[@DiscMakers]

Great tip!