Why Would You Want A High Pivot Mountain Bike?

Mountain bike rear suspension can be really confusing! Some designs look really simple and some more complex, and what's the difference between 'high-pivot' and 'low-pivot'? Owen Coutts aka Owen The Bike Nerd explains the potential benefits of a high pivot trail bike. Don't worry there is plenty of rad riding footage from Blake Samson 🤘
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[@gmbntech]

What do you think of high-pivot bikes? Are you racing or riding one already or thinking about buying one?

[@rip.tear.]

I have a Forbidden V1 Druid and I love it, it's great at climbing too even with a coil (EXT Storia V3)

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

2022 Jeckyll XL use to love the bike but at the price it was I was expecting much more, it's like this thing was released during its development stages, doesn't pedal well and drivetrain doesn't like to be pushed while bobbing and pedaling uphill. I knew getting in this wasn't a mountain goat but it doesn't descend that well either I'll probably switch back to a Reign, loved that bike, love my trance x29 too...

[@finroddd]

I am not impressed at all! I have expected very plush ride but it feels quite the opposite. Probably will try with coil shock.

[@limzhonghan3316]

What about the polygon N series? They also have also did a different way but beat the square bump issues?

[@Jarymut]

Whoever picked music, edited it and created this ascetic... Kudos! Well done. I has this emotional old Top Gear vibe. Amazing!

[@gmbntech]

Thanks, that's a big compliment!

[@monstarwrx]

2009 Norco Fluid owner, still going strong, love the frame.

[@rustybeardrnr6259]

Love this. Y'alls videos just keep getting better.

[@Kingsoupturbo]

Makes total sense, its a shame the used bike market tanked, if I can't sell my old bike, its a lot lot harder to buy a new bike (with the same travel, same drivetrain\brakes\wheels tires\ but has a different rear suspension arc). Its so hard to test ride a bike (few test days) get it setup right and see the difference as well. 1% is minimal in theory, but we're already hauling Max-grip tired, 37lb beasts up the long climbs as it is, even more, mmmmm, probably worth it though on the big chunder. More videos like this!

[@kk1l]

I appreciated the "nerdy section"...well done! Nice compact description of suspension considerations. Otherwise, yeah, a sales pitch.

[@glenzigdan]

Love my optic in mullet mode, such a fun bike!

[@mrpunt]

Blake should do a video on masterclass of whips and tables and general steeze

[@gmbntech]

We have many videos over on GMBN of Blake teaching us some steezy bike skills!

[@fredEVOIX]

I didn't buy a bike with that feature sadly for 2025 but after trying a Cannondale Lefty I'm not dismissing any new tech before having tried it 1st, that Lefty was the smoothest bump absorption I ever experienced and I'm riding a fox factory set for plushness

[@Yssgqvwgewgshsydsys]

Lefty's actually have some bearings system inside which prevents the legs from biting up against the bushings regardless of the attack angle. My local mechanic stated that it's a nice technology that other brands shouldn't hesitate to implement.But I think it's complicated due to pattent

[@JeffMTBinVA]

I think it's great to see you all riding and talking about other bike brands, keep it up. Gearbox and belt drive next please. 😁

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thank you! Cheers Owen

[@tonkshred]

Blake is a shredderrrr🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 if im gonna go “man what is that” to my drivetrain I’m choosing a pinion gearbox 😅 … i would try it at a demo day to see how them steeps feel w high pivot

[@MrDino27]

Thanks Blake .I just pick up a 2023 sight .I love it. Had a Scott ransom 2020 .

[@JosephSAi2HT]

Owen! You got some nerdOn techy “whips” love it! Thanks guys! More 411 nuanceStack for the future fullSusRig! BloodyExcited i am!

[@OwenBikeNerd]

The whip's were all Blake's doing - the Nerding was mine! Cheers Owen

[@madjh8]

I remember the Gary Fisher Sugar system, it was very intrusive, the chain jumps in big hits. The rear wheel descrives a arch. I changed to my actual ETSX70 and this is another history, apart from the variable travel and variable head angle, it doesn´t descrive a arch, it is a paralelogram and it is not notice under load. Very nice design. Very nice and fast bicycle that I still keep and it is one of my mind bicycles that can keep with modern stuff.

[@RunRideHikeThrive]

Nice! Been looking at that Sight compared to the HP Trek Slash.. 👍 Right on! Thanks..

[@randomradon]

Me, trying to design my own bike as a hobby: I can do this! Me, after watching this video: wow I have no clue what I'm doing!

[@TryHardIndustries]

Then there's Kirk on their racing team who is an engineer at Norco designing bikes and then racing at top level as a hobby 🤯

[@jonimakesails]

Interesting...but frankly get out and ride and most importantly have fun doing it no matter what bike your riding

[@JB50713]

Sprindex! Nice choice. Put one on my Fluid a couple months.

[@funky-phantom]

I see Blake, I watch.

[@homwel]

press like button when Blake appear

[@themoss7115]

Efficiency is not the only disadvantage of idler. Normal drivetrain chainring has about one half of teeth engaged. With idler, only one quarter of teeth are engaged, so there is about twice as much force acting on each individual chainring tooth and chain link. But benefits of an idler outweighs reduced lifespan of chainring and chain. Update: Norco high pivot bike shown in video has another chain guide/idler to better wrap the chain around chainring, so it can be big enough problem to add even more parts to the bike in order to solve it.

[@fredEVOIX]

how would that impact an emtb motor and or wireless rear detailleur ? whether we like it or not bike manufacturers are designing for emtb 1st today

[@Emtbtoday]

​@@fredEVOIXyeah, I've only had the treck slash emtb and it wasn't the best with chain coming off all the time

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

That's why high pivot drop chains easily when you pedal backwards, especially on bigger cogs, on my jeckyll if you use a slightly old Shimano chain it will skip on the ring before it's worn out, not an issue with a eagle chainring and chain but yeah not ideal.

[@jpfidalgo7]

It's not the number of teeth that the force gets distributed by, it's how much force by tooth that matters. But it's not equally distributed. The first tooth get's a lot more force through it than the next ones and from a certain point on, the chain around a cog or chainring only has the derailleur tension and the last teeth are mostly "unloaded" or have opposite force. This happens because the chain and teeth are not "infinitely rigid". From material elasticity, backlash due to tolerances and clearences between pins, rollers, links and teeth, the force transmission becomes a decreasing gradient from the first engaged tooth to the following ones. That's exactly the same reason why worn out chains wear out chainrings and cassettes a lot more, and more frequent chain replacements can have cassettes and chainrings last thousands of km's. If the chain is more worn out, this differential between 1st tooth forces and following teeth forces increases so much that it wears both faster and harder. This is similar to thread stress distribution. The first thread experiences more stress than the following threads. I'm not entirely sure how much, but from experience, I'd say that on a new chain, the first tooth probably experiences maybe 25% to 30% of the chain force, and the next 5 or 6 teeth would take the rest, with each subsequent tooth experiencing less and less force until the sum is equal to total chain force. Something like 25% - 22% - 19% - 16% - 13% - 5% or 30% - 23% - 17% - 12% - 8% - 6% - 4%. Just think of an 11T cog. With 50% perimeter engaged it would be, let's say 6 teeth engaged and taking all the chain force. And with that much smaller radius than a chainring, which increases forces because of geometric stuff. I'd say that the size of the chainring is more impactfull in it's lifespan. But this is due to more load cycles for each tooth for a small chainring when compared to a larger chainring for the same distance.

[@filipruml]

There's a higher force acting on the teeth when fewer are engaged but they are used less so the main lifespan reduction would be for the chain, no?

[@grantwilliams2912]

Great vid.. Tested a Forbidden Druid v2 and really liked it. Poss’ next bike

[@Icamas]

I want to build a sight 2024 as my next bike, impossible to find in europe it seems.

[@benjy288]

When my rear wheel hits obstacles it moves up and out of the way too, come to think of it so does my front wheel :)

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thanks for your insights - yes most suspension does move - Up and out the way - but forks and high pivots can move back and up - its subtle but can make a real difference on the trail Cheers Owen

[@markomat666]

Disappointed there was no empirical objective test, for example, two bikes with identical shock/fork/tires/rider etc, but one is high pivot and the other is standard. Then, they ride some bumpy tracks with no pedaling to see if you actually get some speed from rear suspension moving out of the way through bumps and so on...

[@briannyob7799]

Because the video was bought and paid for by Norco. This is an ad, not a review.

[@kk1l]

@@briannyob7799 Thinking same thing! Nice shill for Norco and secondarily new tech to sell bikes

[@dropoutjohn]

Call in the Blazerker!

[@gmbntech]

He absolutely killed it!

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I have a high pivot. It's for sale 😢 not just because it's a high pivot but more because there's always "something" with the bike. From my 3 previous modern Cannondale sorry to say they are not well built or engineered...

[@kk1l]

Oh, but was it a Norco high piviot ;)

[@martylondon6729]

I have submitted a picture in Top Mods of my home modified Zerode Taniwha into a High Pivot, Gearbox, Belt drive bike. But GMBN Tech still have not shown it.

[@toddkaspers191]

I had the previous generation Sight, and now have the new Generation Sight. The confidence, speed control and trail is complete opposite. Race both bikes on the same track, was 35sec faster on the New Gen!

[@casestudymtb]

Calling an ad "The Truth about X" is hilariously bold.

[@Yhoda.PsyTrakked]

Why not 2 chains? Have one conected to the crack and one connected to the axle. Would that not eliminate kick back?

[@danytheunicorn95]

Nice norco ad

[@NelsonSherry]

Go Norco!

[@loomspace]

I had no idea the fake architect from “Something About Mary” was a mtb guy

[@JB50713]

Looks like less ground clearance under the high pivot chainring.

[@hawgietonight]

I'm the avg Joe, and high pivot systems are way to complex, high maintenance, heavier and expensive to even notice any effect at all. For the 0.5% pros that can notice or even take advantage of it, good stuff.

[@dropoutjohn]

Na, you're doing a disservice to the avg Joe. We are astute, discerning and oft slightly abvavg on good days when given the proper tools. 😉

[@i_eatstyrofoam]

I literally never understood the complexity argument. Most HP bikes are literally the same platform as the low pivot variant, just with the main pivot moved up. You have the same number of bearings to service in that regard. So the only thing you're gaining is an idler (2 in the case of the trek slash), which is really not a big deal. Just remove the chain from the chainring for cleaning and you can access the idler fine as well.

[@Torontoflatlander]

This is one of those times where you can tell someone has watched videos and read articles about something but never actually ridden it. Don't count yourself out on noticing a difference, it really is quite different and beneficial.

[@liwx]

the real issue of high pivot is the service difficulty.... too much hassle for average joes

[@TryHardIndustries]

Why? Because of the extra idler? It's still bushings and bearings. Unless I'm missing something.

[@wonderwatch2239]

Love Blake, but Niel would be the more analytic rider, for this test.....

[@chrisleech333]

And changing swingarm bearings just got 100% worse

[@aaronblonden6774]

24 optic 👌 .

[@sariweissbard4960]

this is everything

[@benjy288]

The high pivot was really planted, so in other words not fun and poppy, not for me then, especially on a short travel bike.

[@jasonweymouth6366]

If high pivot is so good why aren't all E bikes high pivot as the drag doesn't matter

[@TryHardIndustries]

Norco has high pivot E-MTBs too. I imagine it's more complicated then just bolting on any random high pivot system on a bike that has extra weight of a battery and motor on the bottom of the bike. Plus... profits

[@limzhonghan3316]

Trek, Norco, Forbidden, Devaite,

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Yeah there seems to be a theme doesn't there? Hopefully this helped explain the high pivot sorcerer - are riding one or are you tempted? Cheers Owen

[@limzhonghan3316]

@@OwenBikeNerd not really, even if I want to get the high pivot(aka updated overall mtb), there’s a few Icks about it, 1)not much aluminium options, 2) pricing, and 3) mismatch suspension brands(I mean if during the set-up and maintenance work, it will need a lot more than just the manual dictionary)

[@wordreet]

So who's this guy Hugh Pivot anyway?

[@snowman22ism]

This video dropped at the right time. Been thinking about buying a Sight. Old is on sale. New will probably suit my riding better.. Hmmmmm

[@gmbntech]

Did we help you make a decision?

[@cai4322]

anyone know how to get a snapped bolt out of a carbon frame 😅

[@gmbntech]

This could be one for #AskGMBNTech

[@Alan-75]

I have no interest in high pivots at all, they look nasty, would be a pain in the arse to maintain, expensive and from what I've heard and seen from other riders the chain constantly falls off. It's just something else to go wrong and more cash out of your wallet when it does wrong, I think it's a fad and will disappear to be honest

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Interesting insights - thanks for sharing. It does feels like as a trend its growing across the industry - purely from the nerding side the high pivot and idler set-ups can offer more tune-ability than those without - so it could create a better riding bike. Again thanks for your insights! Cheers Owen

[@gabrielsegura3478]

Te envia saludos balfa bb7

[@ondrejjanoska660]

Norco bikes ride awesome but their guarantee sucks!

[@joshnovis9996]

Hmmm, guarantee is lifetime for everything 2014 and newer...

[@soul-reaper247]

Hi

[@Scott-ShaggyBeard]

All those little wet roots have me puckering just watching.😵‍💫

[@youngstadan4999]

Blake riding loe pivots yea amazing bike bla bla, now all of a sudden its like errrrrrr brother lkke eeeeeerrr

[@CostinMBR]

I have changed from a trail bike to an enduro bike with high pivot 170mm front and rear and is amazing. My question is, are you wearing a wig?

[@OwenBikeNerd]

So your a fan of the High pivot - interesting insights! Thanks for asking - its not a wig - its all my own home grown hair! Let us know more about the high pivot bike you're on! Cheers Owen

[@CostinMBR]

I have devour your video just to get more information on high pivot bike. My only concern was pedaling uphill, no issues whatsoever it feels like a trail bike and going downhill it flies. For everyone one out there looking into a high pivot bike is all worth it no matter the brand.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@CostinMBR Great insights - thanks for sharing! Cheers Owen

[@blacklabel131]

bye

[@nilokillian]

what's really interesting you're not saying about hight pivot bikes being no poppy at all, They glued to the ground. I've been with Claymore for over a year now and just can't get used it, not everybody's favourite design

[@youngstadan4999]

You can see the high pivot bobs a lot, in the video

[@youngstadan4999]

Makes no difference to 90 percent of riders

[@youngstadan4999]

Its alll waffle imo its all about money, all the chanels the bike makers will gaslight us we need yet another bike a different fork on and on show me the money

[@youngstadan4999]

50 percent propoganda the next thing you next.

[@James-cs3hp]

If this is the sales pitch for full suspension multi or single pivot MTBs...well its false advertisement...it's impossible for the rear of the bicycle to move rearward/extend....it dose shorten because of pivotpoints....if you look at mountain bikes side by side....hard tail, single pivot/low pivot, mid pivot, high pivot, out of the 4 types the ride would get softer..with the chain being longer as it has more pivot points, hints the idler gears/chain guide to keep the chain on the gears, instead of slapping around during suspension compression given a softer quiter ride on ruff terrain...basically with full suspension MTBs your paying for a longer chain, as you get a softer ride.. 🤔 🚲 ❣️

[@FACTSI1I]

Wrong

[@James-cs3hp]

@@FACTSI1I explain then...!?

[@DontWorryImAPilot]

@@James-cs3hp On a high-pivot bike, the initial part of the suspension movement is rearward. Not ONLY rearward, but up and away rather than - on a lot of other bikes - up and forward. That's kind of the reason why anyone makes a high-pivot bike. That higher angle leaves some rearward movement available on the arc of the axel path before it starts to swing back forward. Look at the information Forbidden Bike Company has on their website about their "Trifecta" suspension. They show some graphs and talk a bit about it. It's pretty cool. Their pivot location plus their idler location seem to make it possible to not have a much in the way of chain-related problems, too. It's a pretty smart system! My riding wouldn't really benefit from a high-pivot design so I'm not that interested in it for my riding. But it's a really cool idea that has been around a while and has in the last few years been refined enough to make sense for more mtb use cases.

[@James-cs3hp]

@DontWorryImAPilot damn if it dont...lol Now I understand how that would be a much smother ride...from the digram Owen showed I couldn't understand the concept of the rear of the bicycle moving back...but now it absolutely does..I better go tell that other guy in the comments I was wrong...🤭

[@James-cs3hp]

@FACTSI1I yes...I was wrong, thanks for pointing it out to me...every time I try to be a asshole...a bigger asshole comes along and proves me wrong....🤭😋

[@mikebarnum6066]

Am I the only one that watches fewer GMBN videos since Owen has been on? …he makes my favorite activity seem…uninteresting. Sorry.

[@Laura-dw4yo]

Opposite for me. I love his enthusiasm and how relatable he is. I hope they put him in more adventure videos too.

[@mikebarnum6066]

@@Laura-dw4yo I’m actually glad to hear that! He seems super tech smart, so I’m happy that others are enjoying him.

[@jl-xs6ud]

Is this video for kids …?

[@TonightWeGrill]

Is dude wearing a wig?

[@johnnyutah6056]

NO😅

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Not a wig - thats my Hair! Hair aside - are you thinking of trying a High pivot ? Cheers Owen

[@TonightWeGrill]

@@OwenBikeNerd I was actually. The exact bike you’re reviewing was what I planned to get, but I’m gonna rock my hardtail for another season. Still not sure of the high pivot…