Why you can't get over the finish line in EDH | Deck Driver MTG

Today I talk about how I view Card Advantage in the Commander / EDH mtg format!
Learn how I look at packing my decks full of valuable Trades, Draw, and Protection to have a well balanced game that goes smoothly!
Moxfield Links:
Legolas: www.moxfield.com/decks/mpVfxs...
Samut: www.moxfield.com/decks/KydsCH...

[@MTG_Brewzl]

Man, I just love my algorythm. Everytime I start struggeling whilst brewing, another great channel pops into my feed. Your content is great, keep up mate.

[@isaacroberts297]

Rec sage is a 2 for 1 trade because it is also a permanent on the battlefield (which is card advantage). As opposed to Disenchant for example which would be a 1 for 1 since it leaves nothing behind on your board

[@nayarwg9033]

I feel like rules like that are less applicable in EDH, while having a creature for free with an effect is huge, the trade off of value is much smaller than a more conventional format (standard), where bodies mean a lot more.

[@WIBYTIEDH]

@nayarwg9033 it's true. Leaving behind a 2/1 body is meh when you consider that you'll probably forget it's even there. The only upside to it is if you're running a blink, token, bounce, or grave recursion strategy.

[@Kryptnyt]

I used to think the body was just automatically a 2-for-1, but nowadays I consider it to only be a 2fer after I've traded the body off for something. It's better than playing a Grizzly Bears, which is like paying mana and then discarding a card up until it has traded off, but it's still not as valuable as in a format with less life. Rec sage is more valuable when you take some other things into account, though, like how your deck may have engines that draw you cards when you play creatures, for instance, or if you have recursion engines, or a lot of equipment that value small creature bodies just to have something.

[@TheDetectiveJ]

Having blockers is always good

[@zaklawrence-earey6832]

@@WIBYTIEDH It's good with blink, recursion, sacrifice, anthems and attacking/blocking. Its a 2 for 1

[@codysorenson4298]

If your commander has card draw you can usually get away with around 8 card draw in the 99. If not you probably want 10 to 14 depending on the deck

[@MageSkeleton]

Reclamation sage became so popular and staple for green decks because it's a creature that has built in removal. So your sorcery speed removing a problem, and if you have anything that triggers from "Creature cast or ETB" that happens. And then you also just have another creature on field which green wants you to have for things like craterhoof.

[@alwaysabiggafish3305]

I watched the video too!

[@felipedocarmo5172]

I don't really think that 1 for 1's are card advantage, its just interaction. I like to separate card advantage in - Card draw, recursion, and/or something that can generate continuous advantage, such as a conjurer's closet in a blink deck. But , as always, love the videos man!

[@brandyourfan9244]

Agreed. 1 for 1s break even, but not against the table. You and that opponent are down a card against the other 2 or more players, so I definitely don't call that advantage.

[@oldirtysean00]

People need to play more protection spells in their heavy creature decks. (Boros Charm being a personal favorite) It’s card advantage and you’re usually trading up in mana. Your 2-3 mana spell trades with your opponent’s 4-6 mana spell. Also your other 2 opponents are usually just down multiple cards from the wrath. Just because you’re not drawing cards doesn’t mean you’re not up cards.

[@PaulissVegan]

Reclamation to destroy Rhystic is on the surface a 1 for 1 but you still have 1 card more in the end, so it's a virtual 2 for 1

[@NotBer]

Not really. In just 1 turn cycle where no one pays, Rhystic already drew 3 cards.

[@Controlqueen31]

​@@NotBer That's why you always pay rhystic study unless you are going to win the game. Always. Tithe is more optional because it gives mana but, without cards or value engines, is almost useless. But rhystic no. Always pay the freaking rhystic study

[@franslair2199]

​@@Controlqueen31i need to play my cards though, which paying the 1 will often render impossible

[@onlystamina5932]

Druid of Purification isn't a 3 for 1, it's a 4 for 1.

[@evanprimeau3810]

Other people have commented this, too, but I want to pile on to reinforce the point: Removal is not Card Advantage, it’s Interaction. One card can sometimes fulfill multiple roles in your deck, and in different scenarios, but I do think it’s damaging to one’s strategic mindset to lump in MOST Interaction with Card Advantage, especially in Commander. In most cases, a 1 for 1 in Commander is strictly card DISADVANTAGE, because you are contending with three other people at once. In order not to be losing card advantage versus 3 other players, a removal spell would have to trade for a whopping 3 CARDS, an insane rate than most removal spells can’t reach. So, removal and interaction is justifiably placed in a different category than Card Advantage. The overlap between them, and trying to quantify that from a bird’s eye view, is heavily damaging to a player’s mindset. It’s the same type of logic that leads newer players to believe that control decks always have a Counterspell, and that they’re much stronger than they are, wrongly assuming that the Control Player is gaining value by trading 1 for 1 with their spells. In reality, the opposite is true: the Control Player is normally attempting to let as many things resolve as possible, and spend as little cards and mana as possible, to preserve their own resources for game winning spells and to protect their own Win Cons. Most of the value that is gained from Interaction is not card advantage (besides the case of interacting with an opponent’s Card Draw Engine, such as Rhystic Study), but Mana Advantage.

[@majinvegeta6364]

Boardwipes, when deployed properly, are a form of card advantage. Efficient single target removal is a form of tempo advantage. Many people do not understand the distinction between the two.

[@Kararch]

Nice topic. Agree that removal is not card advantage. It does not advance your game plan, only sets back your opponent's (plus their mood :)

[@louelastic954]

2:21 This is why I run Arcane Denial

[@julianhugen8760]

I'm playing Arcane Denial over counter spell for almost a decade. Only in the last two year that people started to realized that is better. Huahuahua

[@breyor1]

Idk, I found a 12/12 Ghalta ends games pretty easy

[@Belena711]

Druid of purification lets every player pick something, so it's usually a 4 for 1, actually... Definitely worth that extra 1 mana, methinks. Lol

[@Belena711]

Ignore that I said "actually" in a comment. That didn't happen. 😅

[@jaredwright1655]

Not gonna lie, I cast it last night and I was the archenemy at the moment. It got one thing. So it's not perfect but it can be incredible if you're behind

[@HelloThere-uu8ln]

@@jaredwright1655 Same. I was in the lead and when I cast it they all voted to just hit whatever I targeted. Bit of a bummer when playing with 3 other people who also run it.

[@azelia2464]

​@jaredwright1655 Druid of Purification is better early game when people don't have tokens they can sacrifice

[@elohim5063]

You can also have another way to get card advantage - discard. I just built a rat deck that has a lot of discards and I hope Ill have fun with it :D

[@TheMoreriss]

Wouldnt be a reclemationsage kinda a 2for one? since you keep a body on the field and remove something? Like playing a sorc for removing is a 1for1 but if you have something afterwards thats good

[@majinvegeta6364]

What do you mean you don't run any other card draw in your Samut deck?!? What if someone plays a Drannith Magistrate? What if your opponents hold up removal and counters to prevent her from getting a chance to trigger? Are you just going to top deck the whole game? Run card draw!!! Maybe 8 cards instead of 10-14, but still run it. Also, some of what you discuss in removal and protection is actually TEMPO advantage, not card advantage. Both are important means to win Magic games, but are effectively operating on a different axis.

[@noprobro5825]

Morphs are amazing card advantage if built right

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

This is why my Ancient One deck is nasty. Hard to establish a game when most of your deck is in the bin

[@CorZ1lla]

Lol never seen that card

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

@@CorZ1lla it's from LCoI. It's the 2 mana 8/8 that can't attack or block unless there's 8 permanents in the yard and is an infinite mana outlet (2UB to loot, then mill someone for the discarded card's mana value)

[@friendlyshadow6857]

Man, I'm brewing a Combo deck. It's all about tutoring combo in hand and win the game with it. Does card advantage apply here, since I don't care about how many cards are in my hand but to tutor 2-3 cards?

[@majinvegeta6364]

You still have to be able to reliably hit those tutors, fast mana, and interaction to protect your combo, so yes, combo decks need card advantage arguably even more than "fair" decks.

[@aaroncalloway2898]

I love the casual to cedh pipeline

[@jamesharrigan2244]

power creep is a b*tch

[@jonothanthrace1530]

yes, it thins out CEDH players I accidentally play against.

[@Aaron-gp2ee]

Its called it's free relaistate

[@mofomiko]

'commanders with carddraw built in gave an easier time drawing cards' Well, yeah Also, this is the very reason I snipe those down

[@TitoRohwedder-my1nh]

card advantage is nothing without efficient mana production, ask Raffine players. loads of card advantage and options, seldom any mana to do more than one spell each turn

[@Ubiquitial1]

You sound... really familiar. Do I know you?

[@deckdriverMTG]

My real name is LeBron James you might have seen me on TV

[@davidhouseman4328]

You seemed to fixated on card draw here. You are only drawing cards for the effect they produce, so if you can produce that effect, you don't need the draw. The most obvious example is token production. Another aspect is creature quality, a ramp deck putting down 7 drops will gain card advantage by their threats needing multiple creatures to answer.

[@nzboy9980]

Stealing Cards counts

[@Thraximundar268]

Thank you

[@MrGaiakid]

Please don't run more board wipes, all that does is drag games out when someone is playing one every other turn

[@aklepatzky]

Lol

[@lazyduck1234]

With the increase in ward being played, board wipes can be used to get around it. I guess it is meta dependent though, maybe even a rule 0 conversation.

[@YOURMOM230]

Then how is a person supposed to deal with a tokens deck? As long as the deck is built around taking advantage of the board wipe; there should be no issue.

[@majinvegeta6364]

Lol Tokens players be like: plz don't run more boardwipes Burn players be like: plz don't run more life gain Combo players be like: plz don't run more counters Storm players be like: plz don't run more tax Reanimator players be like: plz don't run more graveyard hate New players be like: plz don't use constructed decks 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣💀💀

[@azelia2464]

Yeah I've been noticing more and more board wipes recently and honestly it's really annoying. I feel like if you have to board wipe that often, your deck isn't good enough to stay ahead or at least with the same pace as the other players

[@13eetle13omber]

I’m skeptical of your three categories of card advantage being: card draw and two things that are objectively not card advantage. Lol.

[@majinvegeta6364]

Boardwipes, when properly deployed or many target removal spells such as Decimate, are a form of card advantage. Mass protection spells prevent opponents from hitting you with effects that can be a form of card disadvantage, so if we're being really charitable, it kind of works even if it is poorly articulated in this video. 🤷🤷🤷

[@13eetle13omber]

I feel like if I were to be charitable in most of this video it would require me to assume he means the exact opposite of what he’s saying. I agree boardwipes can be advantage, but he spend a lot of the removal section showing Path to Exile and confusing mana advantage with card advantage. Protection spells are not card advantage except in specific situations such as multiple players having a large board state. I think the thing that bothers me is that there are other categories of actual card advantage he could have talked about, but instead chose to provide some really bad and in someways objectively wrong ones. If I were to replace the removal and protection categories I would instead talk about mana sinks (Dawn of Hope, Legacy Weapon) and cards that grant you access to other zones (Muldrotha, Gonti)

[@majinvegeta6364]

@13eetle13omber you're not wrong. I just find it's generally best to steelman a person's argument rather than simply dismiss it

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

your thumbnails make me irrationally irritated. you dont need a draw engine in the command zone as your thumbnail implies.