You're building your budget decks wrong... | Deck Driver MTG

[@murpl1462]

"in most casual budget pods, you will be winning with creature combat damage" guttersnipe has entered the lobby

[@zeka2255]

Keyword being "most".

[@manwithname]

Enjoying the activity on the channel, hoping for more soon !

[@deckdriverMTG]

Working on it! More to come very soon!

[@Robert-vk7je]

Often it comes down to this: The less money you spend on a deck, the more TIME you need to invest to refine it.

[@tempestandacomputer6951]

Nah. Some of these super focused lower budget builds build themselves.

[@soleo2783]

​@@tempestandacomputer6951 *ahem* Aristocrats.

[@rafaeldefier]

Another great video, man. I just started playing Magic and I've been having a lot of fun deck building, this is gonna help a lot.

[@brandyourfan9244]

Congrats on the 1k subs. Well earned. Keep up the great work brother

[@mymarshlands]

Something i think a lot of people ignore when playing budget is that there are budget alternatives that ARE MORE SYNERGISTIC FOR YOUR DECK, if you're running budget enchantress, why not run enchantment-based removal (oblivion ring etc) instead of swords/path? a friend of mine tries to build budget decks but he keeps going more expensive than he initially wants bc he cant let go of buying "staple" cards bc he thinks its the only ones that do the job... 😅

[@NStripleseven]

The thing that I think people generally miss when thinking about card draw is “oh, if I play less of the cool synergy cards and more card draw, then I’m not going to see the fun stuff as much!” The thing is, though, you see so many more cards with that much draw, you may well end up seeing more of your good cards per game than you would otherwise.

[@bap4285]

Oh dude! Perfect timing!

[@deckdriverMTG]

I'm glad! Have fun deck building!

[@bap4285]

​@@deckdriverMTGI'm going to build a Kutzil deck! But I was wondering what to put in my deck. Your video did help. I wonder tho, what would be a good way to build the deck without falling into the same old green creatures that you find in most precons? Or should I embrace the simplicity of those creatures and do the thing?

[@OlaAremu]

For future reference: STEP 1: The Engine (Positive Card Advantage) - If the Commander has Recurring Draw, play 8 draw spells, if not 12-16 draw sources. STEP 2: Removal - play 16-20 Removal spells STEP 3: The Main Gameplan - play 16-20 dedicated gameplan cards STEP 4: Ramp - you'll need as much deck-thinning ramp as possible (green is good at this!), 8-16

[@ryanbolson23]

You just described upwards of 72 of the 99 cards, not including the 30+ lands… how do you plan on actually building something that relates to your commander?

[@PracticalPotato]

@@ryanbolson23 by having cards that pull double duty, or by consciously reducing the amount of one or more of these cards. For example, SalaciousSnail's "Extreme Midrange" Radha deck is a little low on the draw side because its ramp/cascade package thins the deck significantly (less dead draws) and it has an extremely high-costed curve (don't need as many cards). The "Gameplan" cards are all huge creatures, but a lot of them also act as removal.

[@ryanbolson23]

@@PracticalPotato or, you know, you could just not run a template that uses so much of the deck balance…

[@PracticalPotato]

@@ryanbolson23 I mean, the template includes 16-20 cards dedicated to your gameplan, and you're free to adjust it. the categories are so broad that I'm not sure what you want to add that isn't already included in the template.

[@ryanbolson23]

@@PracticalPotato you are absolutely correct and I’ve been a total buffoon. I totally didn’t read that correctly and that’s on me.

[@doctorrobz]

This is how to build any deck, not just budget

[@thedanath]

Even in a budget 16-20 removal spells is a lot. Your then dedicating 1/5th of your deck to just removal. Personally 2 or 3 board wipes and 5-7 single target removal is plenty in a deck. Basically in a 4 player pod if everyone is running 20 removal spells then nothing is ever going to stick on the board and its going to make a game twice as long as it needs to be. As for ramp if you are not running green get 5-8 mana rocks and things like Solemn Simulacrum, Burnished Hart and Wayfarer's Bauble

[@workingandcommenting]

solemn, hart and bauble are all bad cards. bauble a lil less than the other 2 tho, I would recommend anyone to run those cards unless you have some other synergy with then like a yarok or something. just run more rocks

[@thedanath]

@@workingandcommenting Im sorry but i disagree as all 3 are great cards to use (especially on a budget). Like i said if your NOT running a green based commander Bauble, Heart and sad robot are great options. Along with Sad robot and Heart giving you a body you can use, and sad robot also giving you card draw when it dies.

[@mofomiko]

I agree with removal, just watch out for the "play more removal" crowd when you even dare to question the necessity of something like tergrid in casual pod. I try to aim for about 50 ramps spells + lands, there are plenty of cool manarocks that usually do synergize with your deck some way or another. If my curve is low, I might even be at 45 ramp and lands

[@mofomiko]

​​@@workingandcommentingi disagree too, having the land in play is absolutely worth the premium in mana cost

[@omegaduckie]

Wrong

[@Sb79612]

I don't know if I'd recommend *16* removal spells if you're already drawing a lot of cards. If you're the only one in the group running interaction *maybe*, but 16 is way too many. I have a Xira, the Golden Sting insect tribal (pretty bad deck 💀) with 8 single target removal, 3 board wipes, and 2 pseudo board wipes (wipes all token creatures). With even only drawing 1-2 cards extra per turn because the deck isn't optimized, I'm still seeing 5-6 removal spells per game, which is plenty if even one other person runs removal. I would advise people that if you have heavier card draw, you can slack off on the count of some things since you'll see them more often. Example: If you draw only 1 card per turn, you'll see your 1/10 removal once every 10 turns or so. If you manage to reliably draw 2 cards per turn, you could see that same removal spell the same amount of time with only running 5 removal! Now don't just cut stuff in half, but consider what percent of your draws youd like to have be each category and the average amount of cards you'll see every turn.

[@bonwaya5077]

Remember kids the most important part of commander deck are your meat and veggies. Creating mana and card advantage, is your meats. Removal and protection are your veggies. Just like your portions, everything else is just the side dishes. Eat your meat and veggies first.

[@Bedni87]

watched 2 of your vids about creating decks, and there is nothing said about protection of commander, when he is a fundament of a deck. for example I have a brimaz blight of oreskos, which is my main engine to create incubators and to speed up proliferate. My plan is to cast some poison enablers, and then proliferate through more spells and sac phyrexians while having Brimaz. I had 2 games when he was killed several times so my commander costed 10 mana = impossible to cast at that time. And without him my board was developing very slow and flow of poison kinda stopped :/ Now my plan is to throw in ~6 white protection spells and keep an open mana all the time to save Brimaz. what you think?

[@mickjameson4384]

Agree,heroic intervention,lazothep plating,teferis protection are a must

[@LukeSkipworth]

Tef protection isn’t budget…

[@EthanTowsley]

Commenting because you are two subs shy of 1k, great video regardless, but gotta get that engagement engine rollin'

[@grantpolley]

Revomal is key

[@deckdriverMTG]

Couldn't agree more!

[@KolossusB]

It's almost always the answer if someone asks how to improve their deck. Most people just don't play enough of it.

[@vBerty]

Quick question: why do you illustrate the ramp with cards like Lorien Revealed or evolving wilds? Apart from that, great video, thanks!

[@aidangray8715]

Any chance you could share the xenagos list?

[@Kristophtehrussian]

Where's the Zenagos decklist at? O_O

[@flpn2275]

This is so difficult to do in my Sharuum deck lol usually people associate budget with powered down. Sharuum is budget, powered down and still gets groans from the table :(

[@garasu29]

Going off your ratio for draw power in the command zone vrs not in the zone, does a similar principle apply if your commander has a built-in removal option?

[@Grooveworthy]

My tips for budget building: play 1 or 2 color decks. Mana fixing can be expensive. Simple mana base is cheap mana base. Secondly, pick a commander that synergizes well with other inexpensive cards. Zada is a good example. Most of the cards he combos with are commons. Talrand can synergize with literally any blue instant or sorcery.

[@pajurr]

Hey, great video ! By the way Thrill of possibility is not card draw ;) it is card selection like almost everything in red

[@sanguinedeserter561]

Perfect just what i needed thank you new sub

[@idaliotorres6039]

Hello! Nice video, do you also have a Thallisse decklist that you can share? Doing a budget one right now and would be happy to have something that can help me build her :)

[@mattyuolmossevero9501]

Rlly good advice. Do you by chance mind sharing the tatyova and kutzil lists ?

[@deckdriverMTG]

Yes, youtube had been weird with links for me. I think it's because i'm still relatively new!

[@PALIGames]

My adventure deck is my favorite budget deck. budget games can be really fun

[@jonasSB-vn8en]

deos meria scholar of antiquity count as card draw?

[@yerosilveira4614]

is Card advantage, yes, kinda

[@rossburnett4151]

Another great video

[@deckdriverMTG]

I appreciate that! I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@N4chtigall]

Damn 75$ is a budget? By budget decks are like half of that lol

[@MentalCrusader]

I want to gift a Tatyova deck, where is the link?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[@deckdriverMTG]

finally posted! YT has been weird with links but it's in the description now!

[@annoyedhitsuji2865]

Never played magic irl do people get annoyed if you have a ton of removal?

[@joshuastark6712]

Nah, most of the time people value spot-removal and interaction at the level they should almost always have. Just remember that diplomacy is a thing, and that people usually find it a bore if you Wrath/Armageddon without something to follow it up with to close out the game!

[@tempestandacomputer6951]

@@joshuastark6712 Disagree. I'll Wrath if someone else is going to win. It doesn't matter if I can follow it up or not. You are right on Armageddon though.

[@name9831]

Kinda depends like if you are just removing stuff and not building your board state up it can make the game long, painful, and unfun, however if you can continue your board state as you are removing other threats and are doing proper threat analysis most groups will respect it

[@b-1edward293]

I'm building a Pauper Commander deck, and card draw is tough. But it's fun to build.

[@MRAIClassroom]

Love pauper

[@tempestandacomputer6951]

just build in blue or black so you have a card draw color

[@0rcd0c]

5:05 that's not true. There are plenty of infinite budget combos. The issue is usually having a good density of required pieces, tutors and the combos need to fit the deck's strategy (i.e. not dead draws without the other parts).

[@io-di4xw]

I've noticed the same. Also it's often the creature overrun finishers that are the really expensive cards 😅

[@Grudi28]

bro, your video is cool and true for the most part, but you can combo like crazy in low budget, the majority of my decks are combo decks and they are all budget too

[@al8188]

One of my playgroups started doing a budget night after I told them how much fun budget leagues are. For some reason they expected there just wouldn't be infinites or combo wins at that price point. The first "season" we ran of it was just a combofest. While fun, it wasn't the experience everyone else was expecting. Like, everyone else thought they were a genius for finding a budget infinite until the entire table was just draining everyone for a million or making 10000 hasty tokens or literally lab manning the table.

[@hellNo116]

Ok ok ok I feel like the universe is pushing to make an MTG video. There are many budget infinite combos in edh. Way to many actually. Niv mizzet curiosity is the easiest deck to point to. Also easy to execute. Tatyova can also run many infinite combos that cost a couple of euros. Also I have made an abdel Adrian deck that has won against no budget stax decks, no budget pako decks and the deck doesn't even cost 40 or something euros last time in checked. To anyone who wants to play combos or storm off let me tell you it is more budget than building good creature decks. The problem is that the decks are usually only two colours and repetitive since the advice of building the deck as a 60 card deck is still true so the deck plays a lot of redundant effects and many cards that do the same. But you can absolutely build budget combo decks

[@villageflippinidiot]

Cool

[@printingproxies]

The problem with 20 removals is that you take the fun away from everyone else to have fun. I run 3 removal, 3 counter, 1 or 2 board wipes. That's it. 20 removal per decks, that 80 removal at the table. Bruh, no one has fun brother.

[@Zumteifl]

My 25$ Light Paws & Zada Deck about Budget = Lower Power: 👀😅

[@jcstaff1007]

4:02 This argument is odd bc it seems to imply that higher budget/power games go by faster so you don’t NEED as much removal. It’s also a bit odd that at 5:16 you suggest that there’s not a lot of “budget” infinite combos or combos in general. Buddy this is Magic. Cards go infinite even if it’s two 8-mana 5¢ cards interacting with each other. There’s burn spells that are cheap. Combat isn’t the ONLY way to win a game of magic, admittedly it probably is going to be the most common method by far though. I just don’t want burn players or combo players disincentivized from building archetypes they are interested in. Not to mention aristocrats. The weird thing also about budget in EDH is that it’s proxy friendly (for the most part) and in conjunction with the banlist being an afterthought at best that anything goes and decks can be as powerful as you want without worrying about a budget. And i do believe power is tied to budget. It’s probably the biggest factor, outside of the vacuum of card design. It’s the reason lower powered tables don’t see dockside extortionist as often as cEDH tables. There is no budget at cEDH tables but there is one at lower power ones.

[@MisterWebb]

Sadly, Magic is a pay-to-win game.

[@jcstaff1007]

@@MisterWebb right, that’s what i concluded with.

[@MisterWebb]

@@jcstaff1007 Do you disagree that high power games finish faster? I’m not a CEDH player, but I do watch games and they seem to end very quickly

[@MisterWebb]

@@jcstaff1007 In regards to your second point, Isochron Scepter, for example, is only $5 …

[@jcstaff1007]

@@MisterWebb im disagreeing with the notion that bc games end faster in cEDH you don’t need as much removal, which is exactly the opposite of the truth. cEDH decks run tons of counterspells and removal to deal with the various threats in that meta game. That’s what im disagreeing with.

[@Crazedwaffledevourer]

Seems good, have some algorithm

[@GallantLee]

I don't recommend too much removal in low power games... removal slows games down in to a crawl... as soon as you go high removal you have a chance against higher power tables.

[@Myriadoffrogs]

Youre right revomal is very cheap

[@Nicolas0981]

Revomal

[@FacilitaFisica]

"Play a lot of removal and card draw". How can you all appraise what he says.. if even he doesnt do it? GW has ONE card draw and UG has TWO! Come on..

[@elliotbanbury6442]

You don’t need a commander that draws you cards. Build what commander you want. Yes you obviously need card draw and interaction.

[@argossoares8613]

no i'm not, my decks work pretty well