Why You Don't Need Speed Work! JM Blakley & The Dynamic Effort Method

[@What-he5pr]

I hope JM Blakely never gets angry. I bet it's like he says "I'm very disappointed, you could do better" and then you feel terrible. And when he's upset as possible he shakes his head and fluidly walks away.

[@joshcrowder3385]

🤣

[@russellmuscle7434]

My disappointment is immeasurable... my day is ruined

[@standarddeviation7963]

He reminds me of dude from Bladerunner 2142. I should say, the guy from Bladerunner 2142 had to be a little call back to JM Blakely

[@rodrigoadavila94]

I rock my JM “let’s get metaphysical” shirt on max effort upper body day for a 20% strength increase

[@JuicyOcelot]

Speed work and neural drive is similar but not the same. The approach is different but with similar outcomes....

[@nyguy5370]

I incorporated speed work in my last training cycle. I haven’t tested yet so I am not sure whether it helped improve my 1 rep max. BUT - I definitely feel like I am lifting more explosively at the start of the lift. I’m going say that for each of us it may be different. Since I am not a competitive lifter, in the end, it really doesn’t matter. I do find that DE days force or give me an excuse to lift lighter when I might not otherwise. So as Matt Wenning suggests, DE may increase my lifting mileage.

[@mountdoomee]

That's awesome, I know when I started adding jumping, my deadlift off the floor improved a lot

[@Brain320]

I don't look at it like improving my 1REP max speed but more like on the day I can train with more force but recover as if I was training with less force. So I don't know if I'm telling it correctly but essentially if I did sets on the bench with 265lbs on Tuesday I will do like 180lbs on Thursday but it will be fast reps to simulate the force I was producing on Tuesday but without the impact on total weekly fatigue and joints I'd have by repeating 265 again. Does that even make sense?

[@barbellbryce]

Your last statement is what EVERYONE NEEDS to hear. It's all about who can "last the longest, is the strongest". Dynamic Effort is a way to still practice competition lifts, get in quality reps, practice speed, while reducing milage on the body. You're right, Matt Wenning is arguably the most knowledgable raw lifter who preaches this.

[@wolfnuske8884]

I like JM´s calm and simplistic approach. As a 56yrs old recreational lifter, dealing with multiple responsibilities in life, I find this is the least stressful way to keep progressing. I´d also recommend this especially for individuals that are prone to "paralysis through analysis".

[@wadelowther2993]

There is an argument (made by Matt Wenning I think it was) that speed work is worthwhile, because it gives you additional volume with less stress than the max effort days. That allows you to practice and hone your technique, without the straining of a max effort day. In addition, if you train equipped, you aren't going to be wanting loads of reps in a bench shirt, or squat suit. As a raw lifter, other than the additional volume argument, I too have never been totally sold by the argument for speedwork - because I get JM's argument that speed work isn't specific to the slow grinding efforts that we need for lifting max weights (this is also echoed by Chad Wesley Smith and Mike Israetal's writings). I'm also not convinced that, at the sort of velocity Wenning uses, you can properly control the weight safely and master technique. Having tried speedwork - particularly with bands - it was hard to stay totally in control of a flailing bar. I am however, confused as to what you should replace speed days with, given that you can't be doing 4 max effort workouts a week and still recover properly. I have to say though, that when training with max effort and speedwork that sent my totals rocketing. Whether replacing the speedwork with something else - such as a light technique day to recover - would have given more, I'm not sure. It is confusing.

[@zacgoodman72]

Speed work for hypertrophy and technique is overrated. The magic in speed work is the increased efficiency in active motor unit firing. Max effort provides an increase in the volume of active motor units available to fire, where as speed work increases the efficiency. In reality, strength athletes need both to reach their genetic peak. The conjugate system works to fix weaknesses so if you need more muscle mass then subbing speed work for more repetition work would be smart. If you have a good amount of mass and need become maximally stronger than speed work would be wise. I cycle both speed work and repetition method based cycles on DE day throughout a yearly training plan.

[@Dr_Footbrake]

"everything works, nothing works forever"

[@fleshquilt]

@@zacgoodman72 Was hoping someone would mention that rate of force development is extremely important for strength athletes. I currently do 4week waves in about a 3 and 1/2 month block mainly just switching percentages on DE days between blocks. The other thing I think people are missing is that the conjugate method is not a "program" it is a style of /organizing training, the problem I see with a lot of people trying to use it is not substituting in what they need. For example doing things like block pulls when there issue is strength off the floor or doing "speed work" instead of repetition too often and not gaining enough muscle mass. (bit of a rant SHORT VERSION - I like your comment)

[@gumbygreeneye3655]

Wade - this was a well considered and well expressed point. I agree with your assessment and wish the answer was clearer!

[@PlasmaFuzer]

@Zac Goodman @Wade Lowther This is the best response thread so far.

[@harleydangerholguin9342]

I do bench 3 days a week. Speed work has improved my power from the bottom hugely.

[@FastingFTW]

Idk. Once i started speed work i don't get the nagging injuries i used to. Random shoulder, bicep, hip, quad, knee pain i used to have went away having a speed "light" day. Maybe I don't become the strongest, but I do enjoy not being in pain. Also. Lets not forget how transparent it is to have someone with such a different perspective on your podcast.

[@timtwing5886]

Some people might say it's hard to argue with world record holders but not when your body and progress are telling them otherwise. For awhile I just lifted basically maximal with some repetition work on the bench. I added in speed for after watching tons of Louie Simmons videos and I blew through sticking points on my bench that not much else seemed to help. I think one problem people might have is going with to low of a percentage on DE day. I train 50-60% with 25% AR. So I never go above 85% at the top, but never below 55-60 % at the bottom. I also added in every 2-3 DE waves I replace the DE method with the rep method on the bench by doing 6 ×6 the first week than 8×8(drop weight) than 10×10( drop weight again) I've noticed this help in recovery and it's more of GPP related. At the right percentages the idea that speed work doesn't carry over I think is flat out wrong. If your just using free weights on the bar than I might agree with JM but with resistance bands or chains you have to apply more force as you lift the weight. So yeah

[@cristi188]

Hi! But if I'm only interested in 10reps x75% 1RM, do you think it would help me in this case spped work? Thanx!

[@brianhickey5949]

I give much respect to JM. I went to meets with him and watched him train many times. He used simplicity of focus. The six sets of sex reps is simple and you don't need a complex program. JM was (might still be) an awesome bencher. I am listening carefully :)

[@aforseille]

Dave *trying to make own head not explode*

[@mikeanthony5206]

It’s hard to argue with a man that was probably the best bencher in his era and set numerous records. As far as if he’s right, or Louie, or Wenning, the answer lies in each individual. Some people’s true strength will react better to dynamic training, some with JM’s method, some with block. You gotta be patient, try each method and figure out which one made you stronger, faster.

[@blueunicorn9565]

Always learning from you guys!!! Appreciated 😎

[@eliteftsofficial]

Our pleasure!

[@TheBrick534]

I personally find a lot of benefit from incorporating DE work with accommodating resistance into my training. The biggest carryover, for me, is the fact that I learn to explosively drive through usual sticking points and develop strong lockout power.

[@DM-jt4rh]

I love the quote 'One week of 0 progress x 1 billion years = still 0 progress' How many of us need to hear this?

[@brianbland4837]

Grab 2 old analog bathroom scales, put them under your hands, and do a traditional pushup. Do another pushup a little faster and the scale will read higher readings. Do a pushup where you clap your hands in between reps and the reading will be higher again. You didn’t increase your mass during these pushups. The scale is registering the applied force. The applied force is directly influenced by manipulating acceleration. I think there are 2 clear points here: - The idea that your body only produces the minimum force to move a given mass is incomplete. Instead, it produces the minimum force to move a given mass at a given speed. - Would everyone agree that doing a given number of clapping pushups would help you get stronger than doing the same number of basic pushups? If yes, can we agree that pushing a fixed weight faster will also help us get stronger? I don’t think we are saying speed work is better than 1RM work but I think Dave and JM both agreed we can’t to just 1RM work because of the inability to recover.

[@demoncore5342]

I am convinced there is a max speed one can perform a lift regardless the load. So speed work would make sense only on loads that you can't move at the max speed atm. What kinda ties down to the mass times speed equation, meaning increasing the load should give the same result anyway. I really start to think "speed work" is more about the intent, or the neurological part of strength if you want, than muscle it self.

[@PlutoTheGod]

Love the way you explained this. Also, this is the reason why speed work is done with bands / chains mostly accommodating resistance. It’s about applying maximum force, not just putting a fixed light weight and banging out reps. Also JMs 6 sets of 6 methodology seems very incomplete to me. If you say do 6,5,4,4,3,3 on week one, what exactly are you doing to make gains every single week? It is literally impossible to just do maximum exertion to failure like that, change nothing, and continuously go up in weights. If that were the case nobody would ever need programming, drugs, accessory work... just simply come into the gym, apply 100% effort & continuously add weights without issue. And if it worked with 6x6 that easy the with the same logic you could cut it to 3x3 with 90% loads and double every lift year after year. There’s nothing for the body to adapt to at such speeds if nothing changes & straight from week one of a program youre failing half the sets.

[@edschobs5204]

I like speed work to practice specificity with all lifts! Honestly I feel like it helps my lifts more than just beating up my joints doing the same 3 specific movements on maximal effort work! I’m a big fan of conjugate and the way wenning explains the reason behind it!

[@edschobs5204]

Although I like the way he explains the 36 rep method

[@arlenep7093]

Appreciate his perspective and thought process.

[@JustMarioBros]

Blakley is like a fountain of knowledge and wisdom. The mans mind is getting younger by the day.

[@chaosdweller]

Haha, ......... cool.

[@juansamudio1171]

Does it help for Olympic lifters? Who do a lot of snatch and clean and jerks

[@paulnikeqt]

The only reuploads that i like.

[@--andy-]

This is a good strategy for progressive overload. Your weight number is set prior to workout, if you get the desired amount of reps (in his case 6 sets of 6 reps) you move up incrementally in weight .

[@bmstylee]

I gotta say but JM's voice has to be one of the most calming things I have heard lately.

[@kubom9229]

I don’t know but I love speed work, really enjoy those dynamic days. But also I’m not powerlifter.

[@silverbackgorilla2112]

Solid Gold from JM

[@edhage727]

By the way Zippy, where is our hero JM at these days? We miss the metaphysical!

[@USMC5858]

I started training and programming/learning conjugate for myself about 9 months ago and right when I think I've figured it all out, a video like this comes out and contradicts everything I've been doing. It's all pretty confusing, still having fun learning though.

[@comically_large_chungus]

You never have it all figured out. Everyone is always learning.

[@michaelholder98]

This was a great segment to the full interview...glad you guys cut this part out so more ppl will actually hear it...I assume I'm in the minority in that I listen to these interviews in full. Marine Mike

[@bleepblabloop]

Jim Schmitz coached some of his Olympic lifters like this. There’s an article somewhere on Ironmind. It’s like inverted periodization where you take a jump and stick with the weight for however many weeks it takes to hit your targets. The volume slowly goes up in the process, but the intensity gradually goes down because you are getting used to the weight. Once you hit your target, you take a jump and the volume goes back down. I think Brooks kubik called it slow cooking (I might be wrong). This is not block periodization where you stick in an intensity range for a fixed period. It’s like inverted linear and the time range of the “block” is fluid and depends on when you hit your sets/reps target. This is like old 50s/60s Doug Hepburn/Paul Anderson stuff. Pretty cool. No one talks about this anymore. People nowadays just want to add change to the bar every workout.

[@stefanrakocevic7233]

It looks like he's using Steve Shaw( Massive Iron) rep goal system 👍💪

[@mountdoomee]

You still put near maximum force in dynamic work (assuming the loading is done correctly), the increase in force is what makes the weight move faster. Eg: you can put 400 lb of force in 315 lbs it will just move faster.

[@demoncore5342]

That's physics, but the body does not really work that way, like you produce the force to lift 315 faster, not the force to move 400.

[@Xplora213]

@@demoncore5342 your body can move 225 as fast as possible or it can move at a leisurely pace. A sprint is exactly that. You can generate maximal effort a number of ways. It’s part of the reason bands and chains are so helpful as well. You are overcoming more than just gravity with a band. I don’t disagree that 405 is more weight but the question is whether or not your body chose to express as much power as it could. Add 100 pounds of bands and maybe your example isn’t the same anymore.

[@demoncore5342]

@@Xplora213 But then chains and bands change everything, still, 405 plus 100lbs of bands does not mean a 505 bench. As I understand speedwork, it is about lifting all out, putting as much force in to a bar as possible, no matter the load. Literally moving an empty bar with the same intent as 1rm, but you don't generate near enough the same force abusing an empty bar as you would with a wheel, two or more, that's just how body works. There would be a max speed you can physically do a lift, no matter the load, and getting closer to that speed does not push you to produce more force, but to produce it faster.

[@mountdoomee]

@@demoncore5342 increasing how fast you can produce force can actually increase your max lift since it has the potential to break through your sticking point. This is also less taxing on the CNS than ME so done alongside the heavy lifting there are huge benefits. More power overall in dynamic makes it easier on the heavy days. There is also the application of power work in all other sports and activities as well. I know they are just talking about 1 RM power lifting here, but even in that there is lots of use having it. Adding the dynamic days was the one thing that shot Westside lifters ahead back in the day, Louie said adding that single handedly jumped them ahead. If people don't need or benefit from speed/ power training even in a heavy lifting sport what would explain Westsides sudden jump ahead of the other competitors from implementing this? Appreciate the discussion, by the way

[@mountdoomee]

@@demoncore5342 also with optimal loading you can get the right amount of maximal power, you can't put 405 lbs of force in a 45 lb bar because you don't have enough ROM in your arms to get the bar moving fast enough before you have to decelerate and change the direction of the bar. With say 300-350 lbs you could put enough force in the bar. If you're looking for most power in the bar that would be around 200-220 for a 400 lb bencher. Power calculator would be {F(ma)×D}/time . Since Force is mass X acceleration, moving the same weight faster = applying more force, not applying force faster. Of course the heavy lifting has to be done as well so the person is able to handle and balance/groove the actual load.

[@ruku4617]

Just got back into training powerlifting and the beginning of the year I was getting back into doing some 3 board work getting used to overloading I was doing maybe 235/245 and now I’m doing 275 for a burner for about 8 reps and top set around 295 triples. My dynamic bench went from 135 to 195. It really is an option but there’s no doubt that dynamic and Max effort do work and make gains pretty fast(depends on your intensity) my boy is more impressive progress he couldn’t even do 225 for a rep now he’s benching 275/285 for 3-5 reps

[@user-ud2pu8ij6b]

I competed for 10 years, and I have to say I never could see much improvement from using speed work. But it does depend on the individual

[@billybenoit647]

JM is a genius but I disagree with him, he agrees that you need force to push maximal weight but doesn't agree with training to directly improve half of that equation?

[@joshcrowder3385]

Yeah I kept waiting for Dave to play devil's advocate but he just let JM spout off at the mouth. Speed training is just a method that allows the lifter to put out maximal amount of force under different parameters of the f=m(a) equation. Personally, I see pretty good results from speed training. I think I'll keep it in my program.

[@comically_large_chungus]

The problem is that all powerlifting is concerned about is the mass part of the equation. We already know that the law of sports specificity makes it more complicated than just Newton's second law of motion, but your nervous system doesn't produce maximal force at extremely submaximal weights. Your body will not let you put the same force that it took to do your 1rm bench into the empty bar because your nervous system is trying to conserve your body's energy. So the dynamic effort stuff really isn't improving top end force production it's improving force production *at a light load*. This is good for weightlifters who do submaximal pulls in competition or people who throw balls which are extremely light and in turn can improve the speed and distance of their throws.

[@zacgoodman72]

@@comically_large_chungus speed work does indirectly improve maximal strength. Speed work improves the efficiency at which active motor units fire which then in turn improves force production. Speed work really doesn’t get your faster, it improves the motor unit efficiency which then improves your maximal strength. You need both a high volume of active motor units as well as efficient motor unit firing.

[@mountdoomee]

@@comically_large_chungus there still needs to be enough weight on the bar. Louie compares throwing a whiffle ball vs throwing a baseball or a shot put. There is an optimal weight required for optimal power/force production. For power lifting it's okay to go a bit heavier in the percentages because whatever the weight chosen they will be doing AFAPAP (as fast and powerful as possible). It won't work if the weight is too light

[@joelportwood5902]

Acceleration is the only real factor if you want to actually think about the equation, which I wouldn't because it accomplishes nothing. F=ma is one way to display a force which is handy in determining a weight like 100kg x acceleration due to gravity 9.81 m/s^2 = 981 Newtons. This is useful information because gravity and the bar and plates mass are constant. The lifter is not an inanimate object and the only factor in the force battle against the bar that will influence the outcome is your acceleration of it. I think it would be easy to realize if you doubled your mass and got really fat, you wouldn't double your lift. Likewise, a man that weighs 800 pounds doesn't possess the ability to even lift a novices weight. Your mass is just laying there on the bench, its increase doesn't have a direct correlation to lifting ability. The acceleration comes from muscles and their ability to be fired in a systematic and effective way by the brain. I'm not saying speed work is ineffective, but f=ma is not an accurate or helpful way to describe what goes on in a lift. If that were the case you would ONLY work on speed. It is a complicated mechanism not thoroughly studied and like a lot of stuff in our lifting world you can't wait for a study come out, could be 20 years. Anecdotally, I think speed work can provide some novelty and excitement to training, be a break from heavier loads, and be used as a neutral drive lesson to teach you how to turn everything on and rip it hard.

[@MellonVegan]

I think neither the specificity argument nor the line of reasoning Louie uses are really of use when looking for an answer to this question. A lot of opposing viewpoints can be made to sound reasonable when there is no hard data involved. If one wants to know whether speed work helps with maximal strength bc it helps you accelerate heavier weight better, someone's gotta do controlled studies on it. Now granted, for one, no one cares enough to finance that. And on the other hand, training in practise has way too many variables to make for reliable study material. But if one really wants to get to the bottom of this, finding a way to properly study it is how you do it. JM's argument is basically the same that people have against conjugate (in terms of being mostly general strength work) vs. more traditional training (mostly being specific to the main lifts, not even variations). Addressing weaknesses vs. practising your sport. Both make sense. Where the proper balance lies, that's the question only data can answer.

[@MellonVegan]

Actually, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the idea with speed work to make you reach peak force faster/earlier in the lift? To see if it actually does this, you could take two groups (test and control; the larger, the better) of intermediate to advanced lifters who *don't* use speed work yet and have them perform a 1RM test. You'd then measure their times to reach peak contraction/force output during those lifts. After that, have one group incorporate speed work and the other whatever the alternative would be. After enough time, have them max out again and see if the test group has decreased times until peak force output (more than the control group). If yes, speed work at least works in principle. If not, the whole thing is garbage for 1RM training.

[@Dr_Footbrake]

@@MellonVegan you could run your s cond study, NOT see a change in time to peak but still have an increase in 1rm via a different mechanism.

[@LRkun]

Keeping it simple. Glorious

[@HeathWatts]

Six sets of six reps at a 6RM seems like a lot of volume. JM's routine seems like it is a modified Doug Hepburn routine with greater volume.

[@williamlawlor7445]

It's a shame people don't talk about compensatory acceleration coined by Fred Hatfield. The issue I see with dynamic work is the fixed sets, reps and percents. How can you apply this to the general population and expect it to work for everyone. While JM mightnt do speed work I'm willing to bet he's not doing slow reps either. Just to be clear this guy has forgotten more than most people will ever know.

[@pnwgreg300]

have 1 person only train speed bench, have 1 person only train pause bench, compare progress in 12 weeks.

[@hirepgym6913]

Speed work can be very useful on non Max effort days to provide more practice to perfect technique in setting up while not interfering in recovery ability .

[@chaosdweller]

Although idk if it would meet my goals cause I both work out a lot and have been for a while now, so it may not be good for some one like myself, but someone who has been training under a few yrs or so ..? I think that would actually be very helpful, and I kinda think that's something I think? I've heard some of the westside barbell guys were saying .

[@hirepgym6913]

@@chaosdweller a lot of people lack flexibility to achieve a good arch and or the mind set needed to Bench with bad intensions it helped get me to world champion and multi times world record holder in several federations so it must work !

[@chaosdweller]

@@hirepgym6913Ha yeah I guess so , but what about these guys talking? ...who are accomplished , and even more so as... trainers to lifters .....

[@austenforrester7723]

I am always much stronger on my first set of bench press. For instance, if I get 6 reps on the first set, I'll get 3-4 on all subsequent sets, even the 2nd set. For every other exercise but bench presses, I can do 3 sets to failure for roughly the same amount of reps. Anyone know what my problem is? I rest a few minutes between each set.

[@Silverback_S_and_C]

Hmmmm, I have a lot of respect for JM but to think you can make never ending progress with such a basic overload linear program is hopeful at best. If it was that straightforward everyone would be doing it and no one would have ever hit a plateau. I much prefer the conjugate method and my body does too. Alternating ME and DE sessions is a Godsend and gives me the best of both worlds: intensity and volume. Maybe if JM tried speed work he wouldn't speak so slowly, it almost puts you to sleep. One thing conjugate does very well is make you more well rounded and more of an athlete. Lifting slow makes you slow and for any athlete that is performance suicide.

[@johnsambo9379]

Anything can be conjugate. It's just figuring what works best for your body.

[@helmutkrusemann9194]

I´m always curios about who needs speed work? only powerlifters or soccer moms too? the average dude? a bodybuilder? sport athletes? maybe a topic for a blackboard video. thank you very much guys, thanks Sam, thanks Dave, thanks Jacob and thank you very much team elitefts

[@mountdoomee]

Bodybuilders and lazy fucks are the 2 I can think of that don't need speed work, although it may still be beneficial. Everyone else IMO definitely needs it in some form or another haha

[@nickcustodi592]

Rate of force production and force production are similar but different things. true speed work would be unweighted in fact many sprinters use over speed techniques that reduce the weight of their body or use some amount of external forces to train their musculature to fire faster than what is possible under normal conditions. My gripe is with the term “speed” work as opposed to it’s actual application. Shortening a muscle faster does not equate to greater force generation. In fact the opposite is true. Absolute strength as we understand it from a physiological and anatomical standpoint is only achievable by allowing for greater time for the actin-myosin heads to overlap and create more cross-bridges. What we witness when we see a 5 second lift is a True expression of slow-speed strength. Which is powerlifting at its core.

[@dr.riccoimpastato9770]

Isn't the idea of speed work to develop more fast twitch fibers for explosion rather than just trying to move weight fast?

[@brynjarjohansen6504]

Hepburn progresion. Makes sense 👍👍👍

[@DM-jt4rh]

Yep- one of the strongest men in history!

[@nghiephuynhmn1987]

I think this video is a reup...hahaha seem like I watch lot of videos from Elitefts, so I can remember many of them 😂

[@georgepalmer6762]

I use JM's coaching techniques trying people at the factory I work at

[@danoontjeh123]

Any chance of another JM Blakley episode? He originally got me hooked on the podcast, listened to all the hours of him on Table Talk within a week lol

[@briangentile7305]

All do respect to JM, but dynamic work is KING!

[@Cloppa2000]

I think about speed on the concentrics of my lighter warmup lifts. From 70% up I concentrate on strength.

[@standarddeviation7963]

What would a dynamic powerlifting competition look like? You measure the bar speed, too slow/stop start is a fail. Person who lifts the most weight the fastest wins?

[@CyberdarkHellKaiser]

I do my straining, single rep lifts at the same speed being put out as I do in my speed work, the extra weight just slows it down

[@vibezz2791]

Someday I might change dynamic effort with this and see how it goes

[@ZuFFuLuZ]

Ever seen Jamal Browner deadlift 440kg? Pretty damn fast.

[@awmlawoffice]

I agree with JM, but I have seen a world class max attempt squat move really fast. Shane Hamman's squats went both up and down fast as hell.

[@dadbod488]

If you can bench 315 then you should already be moving 225 as fast as you can. I agree that direct dedication to "speed" training is pretty much a waste of time.

[@Samdam142]

Cool

[@daleleggette]

Im going to be the one to say it, this is stupid! So because the sport is about how much you can lift one time, then why do we do volume work? Why do we do anything over 1 rep? Why do we do accessories? The sport isnt about lat pulldowns, military press, DB bench, rows, so why do we do them? Ill tell you why, because it helps up move the weight faster, better and more controlled. The point of speed bench is basically like any other lift, it helps improve explosiveness and anyone with common sense should know that, the faster you can move the weight, the MORE WEIGHT YOU CAN MOVE, so the point isnt to move your 1 rep max faster, because if you could, then its not your max. Matt has proving this with 100s of people and even before i knew Matt, i tried speed benching in one of my programs and it worked for me and my team. This is absolutely dumb

[@demoncore5342]

Is it not about the intent? To move the weight with the maximal speed and intent? No matter what weight, damn, your 1rm moves as fast as it can, you'd slam an empty bar thru the roof putting that much force in to it.

[@Xplora213]

He’s not talking about 1RM and that’s the issue I have. Intent is impossible to discuss without seeing the rep. He’s talking about 6RM and the first 5 reps aren’t grinders. We aren’t hearing about his ME work either. He has settled into sets of 6 and 3 plus accessories at some point but was that all he did? Sets of 500+ as well. He’s not going to discuss it all either, he’s a coach and it’s proprietary information for him. $$$$. I get the impression he didn’t do all his work at Westside so we just don’t know.

[@demoncore5342]

@@Xplora213 Should work for 3's 10's or 20's if it is legit, no matter the rep range you should get the same benefit, as far I understood the idea...

[@joemfahey]

So make your Warmups move fast

[@demoncore5342]

@@joemfahey I actually do, I make sure the bar rings when warming up :)

[@shifter8207]

The one downside i can see of this is over use and potential over training

[@skinniboistrength]

Bruh what a broscience argument

[@comically_large_chungus]

It's actually impossible for your muscles to generate maximal force when the load is too light. That's because the nervous system is wired to use the smallest amount of energy that is necessary.

[@Xplora213]

70-80% at the top isn’t light. It’s right in the range of strength focus. Louie’s conception was that you need to hit fast and slow lifts to develop all those qualities required to improve over time. I would suggest that everyone needs to find their own answers to the puzzle though. 30% plus bands for one, 60% plus bands for another. Dave has said DE was key for him. JM was probably moving that set of 6 fairly quick as well. That’s the killer... we aren’t watching those sets to really know. If speed is key, you have to see the reps 😉

[@comically_large_chungus]

@@Xplora213 70 to 80 % is not super light weights. In a sport like Olympic weightlifting you do need to address strength and speed but powerlifting only cares about strength. According to AlphaDestiny, Westside introduced dynamic effort because recovering from 2 max effort days a week (for upper and lower each) was too much, so they added a lighter session. It's not destructive but you could just go straight into accessory work instead and nothing would really be lost.

[@comically_large_chungus]

@anonymous you literally are not capable of putting 500+ pounds into 135 or 225 because your nervous system doesn't see the need to. If the sport was using submaximal pulls like weightlifting then yes speed training with the weights you will use in competition is important but powerlifting is a maximal sport.

[@comically_large_chungus]

@anonymous just to clarify I was agreeing with you in that reply just elaborating

[@Dr_Footbrake]

@@comically_large_chungus if our body uses the minimal force required then how do field events like shot put and javelin work?

[@littlethuggie]

So JM talks about the body in terms of physics when it's bar path, but now it's not physics.... after reading his articles and watching his videos, the majority of his advice is garbage (weight gaining, cutting, bar path, speed work, muscular isolation, etc)

[@jonathanrhodes8525]

When someone seems like a lone voice and is a long way from 'conventional wisdom', it can be easy to write them off. The problem with that here is that JM talks so much sense that I don't know who is right 🤯

[@MellonVegan]

In my experience, JM's line of thinking is (currently) far more popular than conjugate is. People love to shit on Westside.

[@Dr_Footbrake]

Just to confuse things: the reality is that they're all correct depending on the context and situation. Some people will do well with conjugate, some won't. Some people will do well with speed work, some won't. Some people will respond to high frequency, some won't. THEN, to confuse things more: the reality is also that individuals at different stages of their lifting careers will respond differently. "Everything works, nothing works forever"

[@billymimnaugh3998]

Donnie Thompson who was a MUCH better lifter and MUCH better bencher disagrees 100% .And every lift I’ve ever seen Vogelpohl do the bar flys up .This is non sense .

[@LeeCummings]

Eddies 465 to break his own WR and prior to his 500kg was a speed rep.

[@kryptonianstrength8461]

But that wasnt his true max

[@LeeCummings]

@@kryptonianstrength8461 just 93% whilst quicker than most people stand up out of a chair. That lift stood as a WR

[@chagoriver7159]

Weak arguments