Is Speed Work Overrated for Powerlifters? Force Velocity Curve Explained

[@jdmalm123]

Bromley, you make the case that a strong mind is as important as strong muscles and, in fact, a prerequisite. It's refreshing that you raise the bar, don't pander and expect your audience to step up. Thanks again. Praying for your success!

[@metalrocks999]

Best strength content on KZbin

[@brettcleveland6335]

I'm not a power lifter but I'm really enjoying your content. I think you have put out some really good info. Cheers.

[@svmuscle7677]

I see speed work as only a way to deload and not lift heavy. Tempo work will always beat speed work when it comes to strength, and I know that from experience

[@jasonmerritt4931]

I agree and would add that from a technical standpoint tempo work is also superior.

[@jamesbecker9573]

same, i find that hitting bands under a controlled tempo actually really makes a big improvement on my technique

[@alphapapa4446]

Exactly. I also find that speed work cues bad habits that you wouldn’t normally do while under maximal loads.

[@mrbouncelol]

Tempo work? That's bodybuilder shit guys be serious

[@jamesknight1529]

mrbouncelol what’s wrong with bodybuilding? It’s far more useful to your strength development than doing pointless sub 50 percent sets of 3 and thinking it’s gonna help you move your max attempts any better lmao

[@gui1palmieri]

Last month my coach got a nice job opportunity in another city and a I couldn't find a good and affordable (for my budget) coach. So, I'm training by myself. And I got to say that your content has been very helpful, man. Thank you a lot.

[@MantisCalisthenicsTraining]

As someone who does primarily bodyweight exercise I always liked to think of it as working against gravity. Typically sticking to fast concentrics with controlled eccentrics/Iso pauses. Explosive pull above the bar, pause, control back to deadhang, pause, repeat. The faster the movement becomes the more demanding the load is on the eccentric. For example, a clap push up takes great force to produce, but catching and landing with control is what can make that move difficult without a proper strength base. Eccentric training is a large part of learning bodyweight skills as well in terms of building overall strength for relatively demanding skills. Thought I would share from a different perspective.

[@MLRFlame]

Just subscribed. Channel is filled with amazing content, keep up the good work!

[@jamesonrichards5105]

does the idea work like: going too fast on the concentric doesn't allow as much time for the myosin to grab on to the actin. this causes the myosin to optimize for a quicker reaction time than total force production by having all the myosin activate in a whole and uniformed fashion

[@Mangobed717]

Gained a new subscriber. Excellent comments on non-arousal training. Tommy Kono talked about the importance of it in his book Weightlifting- Olympic style. And gave actual examples of how to implement it. Great stuff.

[@kevinleyden6782]

I can't lift non-aroused. Also why I have to lift at my home gym, always aroused

[@danielmartinez-hernandez6035]

Less blood in the muscles my dude

[@RadioFreeJoe]

Would love to hear your opinion on German volume training or exercises like a 303 squat

[@jasonmerritt4931]

Tempo work is a useful tool. Increases time under tension for hypertrophy. Slowing the rep down helps with technique. Loads are lighter so it can be used in a DUP fashion or as a deload. I prefer a 0 tempo on the concentric with 5 or 3 eccentric and 7 5 or 3 on the pause.

[@kriscotton8467]

Makes sense, jeff nippard talked a little about how you break down most of the muscle on the eccentric portion of the lift, and not so much on the concentric part

[@geneharrogate6911]

To be clear, we're talking about a different animal here than accelerating the 'working' weight using maximum force, yeah? This seems to be recommended pretty much across the board. Incidentally I heard Andy Baker of Kingwood Strength suggest, at least in his considerable experience, if your bench for example isn't north of around 350, speed work (as a contributor to strength) is pretty much a waste of time. Which would likely be the vast majority (myself included) of people who've tried it.

[@AlexanderBromley]

I've heard coaches debate existing strength of the lifter as a factor of it's effectiveness along with whether the lifter is inately explosive or not. Example: with Compensatory Acceleration Training (just moving the bar fast in all scenarios), which is what you're talking about, Hatfield was the big champion of that ideology. His natural jumping capability was insane and he was influenced by a trip to Russia, where he was surely being exposed to data from methods used for lifters pre-selected for their inate explosive ability. Truly heavy attempts should be taken with violent intent, yes, but there are multiple training variations that acheive similar stimulation in a round-about way. Negatives and isometrics increase your ability to absorb and repel force with heavy loads, tempo and pause work conditions increased motor unit recruitment (and fiber growth) at specific areas that might be otherwise undertrained, where fast starting speed might normally reduce the stress and development.

[@BluegillGreg]

Please do a video on how Sir Isaac Newton programmed his cleans, his tempo RDLs, and his pulls from the floor...

[@PurpleApeTraining]

I’ve never done any speedwork but I’m getting very curious about it and have been reading on it. Truthfully I’m only curious for it on my bench. Without any context you don’t think it could be beneficial?

[@sambsialia]

Great stuff. Ok. Umm. Olympic weightlifting is speed training, by definition. Maybe Westside just had envy. Runners do tempo work. Shot putters must reach a certain level of velocity (and trajectory) to go far, so speed is king and touches on the shot and releases at near maximal acceleration is mandatory. Dravecky broke his arm pitching because his muscles could generate more torque than his weakened bone could withstand. Hammer tossers, shot putters, discus and pitchers all generally build strength by specificity training, not powerlifts. For instance, a young Nolan Ryan did not do squats as a kid. But, as a pro, he could lift the whole weight rack on a press machine. I can’t imagine muscles sliding any faster than when throwing heat at 100 mph. This brings up another strength speed question in my mind. Limited volume at peak exertion. Ryan often stayed at or just over 100 pitches.

[@bballinspiration2339]

Hello I have a question I commented on your other videos but I found this channel and I really like it so far I was wondering how should I train if I’m going to the police academy to where I want some good strength but I still want to be able to be fast and explosive all around how should I train reps and sets

[@barbellbryce]

What are your thoughts on using a 5 week wave to utilize higher percentage? Ie 60-80%?

[@bassmuscle101]

I love doing Max effort work but I'm trying to find an alternative to replace "10x3" Dynamic effort work. Would doing the same rep scheme at 70%-75% raw weight be a good way of doing it?

[@devislight]

So much quality and refreshing star information. Thank you so much. 🌟⭐✨

[@tonymaxwell1478]

Also have to allow for motor unit activation, What ever motor units you initiate at the start of the lift is all you have through the entire lift, more muscle fibers yes, motor units no. So i guess it will come down to how hard can you squeeze the muscle in a explosive manner whether you use seed or not.

[@thisusedtobeme]

perfect explanation of force v velocity for strength training

[@dessertstorm7476]

I was thinking of ways to explain why F=MA doesn't apply directly to the human body and was reminded of a physicist joke, where a dairy farmer hires a team of expert physicists to find a way of boosting his low milk output. After several weeks the lead researcher comes to the farmer, and says "I have the solution, but it works only in the case of perfectly spherical cows in a vacuum". One way I thought of which probably appeals to the average westside proponent is to think of a car. After all f=ma applies to vehicles just as much as people. If you want to move a heavy weight with a car either by towing or pushing, is the best way to get the fastest car and floor the gas? Of course everyone knows that because of the way cars work, torque and grip is more important than speed for moving heavy objects. The human body is also nuanced in this way, we are not perfectly spherical bodies in a vacuum.

[@Mr1988wk]

Can you address the best way to increase your bench when gyms are closed and you only can do body weight/ bands work? Max rep pushups vs slow TUT pushups ect

[@dbway88]

Interesting insight. What about using bands to train towards a more uniform application of recruitment throughout the movement?

[@AlexanderBromley]

Westside prescribed band tension still looks for bar speed that results in what the video talks about; falling short of maximal fiber recruitment and limiting force production inside the cell. Speed of execution is the theme; if the weight is heavy enough to slow your rep, then you are in the realm of meaningful strength training. But then you also aren't doing 'speed work' the way it is typically prescribed.

[@JCTEAM60]

This is my question as well - speed work per Louie Simmons uses band and chains to create tension and develop acceleration where the lifter typically would have a mechanical advantage. This forces the lifter to extend the effort through the lift rather than “blowing thru” the movement. Speed movements often have loads near or beyond 1 rep max at top or full extension. Tempo is another compensatory method to help address this goal thru fatigue and volume.

[@maxxfury13]

Mike tuscherer (elite pl & coach and without question one of the smartest guys in the strength world) has a few short form articles on why speed work doesn't work, for the reasons people think (for pl) and feels its def suboptimal .. Definitely worth reading, and he may still have the data to back his arguments.

[@AlexanderBromley]

I've read them. There have been a few write ups since speed work has been a thing that dont get attention they deserve.

[@maxxfury13]

@@AlexanderBromley 👌👌👌

[@alexmc7798]

Mike even said in a podcast last year with RTS or Nuckols (can’t remember which) that one of his few regrets was that he didn’t go harder in that article against speed work

[@joerubelowsky864]

I thought the reason to do speed work with the stimulate type two muscle fibers. The type to muscle fiber is the one which is most needed in heavy resistance training. So the only way in which you can develop type two muscle fibers is by heavy resistance training or speed work. Is that true?

[@AlexanderBromley]

Parts are true. I have a full video on training by muscle fiber type that will give more insight.

[@Cultured_Barbarian]

Awesome Info!! Very detailed.thoigh so I will have to listen again. Explosive reps seem to help me with hypertrophy and definition.

[@azs8884]

can you please make a video about tapering and peaking?

[@deanw5712]

Yer that was a good watch. I think that when working up to a heavy attempt that lifting heavy fast is good because it makes weights feel lighter and easier but i have never really understood the whole speed day thing.

[@АлимИругов-ъ6б]

Pleeeeaaase make a video about reactive training systems autoregulation programming based on RPE and percentage of fatigue,, does it work well??

[@pierreyoussef5182]

Hey man your videos are of great value. Can you make one concerning how to program for an advanced trainee following the starting strength texas method phase. Thank you

[@ggooch97]

If you use AR you should never coast through a "speed" rep. I've only implemented "speed work" for a short time and its more neurological than muscular from what I've experienced. As you said in the video that initial activation is submaximal but you cannot relax at any point or else a band will rip it back down. This does seem to carry over in the same way a box jump does. It's making a physical change as opposed to a technique change

[@AlexanderBromley]

WS prescribed AR still has the time to complete a rep too fast for maximal fiber recruitment or sufficient mechanical tension inside the cell, so maximal force production is still never achieved. For that to happen, the rep has to be slowed with greater resistance. Even if band tension is increased substantially, max force production wont happen until the top of the rep, which has nothing to do with generating max force production (let alone doing it quickly) towards the bottom, as in a heavy attempt.

[@williamb4601]

While this is not directly about speed work (low percent done for maximum velocity), this article does discuss tempo vs lifting with intent to produce Max force. I believe there are other articles discussing tempo with regard to hypertrophy, generally from what I found tempo did not have an impact oh hypertrophy. I wonder if it would be best to periodize lifting intent. An example could be using a controlled tempo during hypertrophy blocks to decrease fatigue via less weight and "psychological" fatigue. The decrease in fatigue would allow for move volume and thus more hypertrophy. In a strength block Max force intent could be used to increase max strength at the cost for more fatigue per set. www.strongerbyscience.com/speed-kills-2x-the-intended-bar-speed-yields-2x-the-bench-press-gains/ One criticism of the study I can think of is the method of progression. Progression was based on how much weight one could lift at a given speed. The subjects training with more reps at max velocity would be better at a sub max speed rep. The maxV subjects would then be forced to progress more and therefore gain for strength. The lifters used sub max velocity would not be as good at speed reps so they would not be as quickly forced to progress. So the outcome could have been a result of progression model and not the lifting tempo. Either way lifting with max velocity could be useful for intermediate lifter: warm ups move faster than normal might be time to up the weight.

[@AlexanderBromley]

Third person to share this article, first to acknowledge they weren't testing speed work! I get super skeptical with studies in this field because of all the things they can't control for. I would have to see the study and how they applied the tempo. It's pretty universally taught that eccentric motion is where most tissue breakdown and hypertrophy comes from (concentric only work is very easy to recover from). The Barbell Logic guys talk about using tempo along with increased range of motion in hypertrophy phases because they see time under tension as being part of the 'volume' pie. Pushing with maximal effort is a key component to strength training. Just thinking about working stick points, we already see block/pin work and halting reps, where we pause halfway up and restart. I think tempo concentric work is more akin to that and a much more productive approach for supplementing the main lift and increasing ability throughout the entire range than speed work.

[@deadandbored]

would someone who has been doing boxing or kick boxing benefit from speed reps as theyre used to recruiting their muscles in a very short period of time?

[@AlexanderBromley]

Yes, athletes require speed work. My criticism is specifically for powerlifters

[@hunterdutkiewicz2993]

I wouldn't say I believe in "speed work" proper, but I find that as I'm building up to working weight, doing a few (1-3) fast reps helps me handle weights as it gets heavier.

[@alexanderchernoshtan9898]

Hey They just deloading this way, its pretty clear: u do the speed day, u move weights that are 30-40% 1RM on 2-3 reps per set, its excellent deload and tech day So its another session that helps to recuperate for those 90%+ days

[@snorlaxcom]

It's an integrated deload to have your beat up body recover from conjugate and is why Dave Tate and Co don't think deloads are needed, because he has one mid week every week.

[@CHSTRTRN]

Does this mean that Sam Byrd's stuff is invalid? www.jtsstrength.com/squatting-big/ He states in the article that he mainly uses 60% as his most frequent lifting % and that dude moves serious weight damn fast

[@ericdaniel323]

1) 60% of a 900 lb squat is a much heavier training stimulus than 60% of a 400 lb squat 2) he's a naturally explosive lifter, and dynamic effort or speedwork doesn't necessarily make slow lifters into fast lifters 3) he's an elite world-class powerlifter, so he is probably an exception to many rules.

[@stoempert]

You could be the World Champion of speedrep bodyweight squats but that would prolly do little to improve speed under a heavy load. Your thinking aligns perfectly with my intuition that speedwork for powerbuilding is a load of bs. Maybe it works as an active recovery/light day, like you said.

[@KingRooster]

Here is a breakdown of a study by Greg Nuckols regarding velocity and gains: www.strongerbyscience.com/speed-kills-2x-the-intended-bar-speed-yields-2x-the-bench-press-gains/

[@KingRooster]

Link to the study abstract: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24734902/

[@AlexanderBromley]

I saw that one. The bar speed was 0.55m/s in the 'fast' group, which is about half the speed of Westside prescribed speed work (0.8 to 1.0m/s).

[@Isaiah-ft5nx]

Playing devils advocate… wouldn’t speed work train the body to recruit muscle faster allowing for quicker response to full muscle recruitment under load? I was never a fan of explosive reps, personally. I’m more of a slow tempo control kind of lifter. It seems more efficient and safe.

[@williamhubel4643]

I understand why speed work doesn’t seem like it makes sense in powerlifting but you can’t really argue with all of Westside’s world records. If it were that pointless they wouldn’t have smashed all those records

[@heveyweightheveyweight5399]

start superior deadlift plan a this week

[@jasonmerritt4931]

Alexander Bromley, what happened to Occam’s Razor? Simple scientific equation is the simplest answer. Personally I’ve never seen a max effort lift move at a high velocity. So to me carryover is an issue. Another negative to speed work is in technical breakdown. When loads are light you can easily misgroove a rep without notice. Too much of this programs an improper motor engram. In my coaching I’ve seen much better results with 550 530 500 330 or 300 tempo work. Helps technique and with the ability to grind.

[@michaelkborozan4121]

Thanks for posting this....speed training is garbage.

[@gnardypascoski7]

KK would not have agreed

[@AlexanderBromley]

Did KK use speed work with low percentages? I don't think he did....

[@gnardypascoski7]

@@AlexanderBromley you are right..

[@BalderE]

How do you only have 25k subbs? That makes no sence to me :O!!

[@joehook9463]

Sounds a lot like the fundamentals Pavel Tsatouline preaches

[@MARCSTRONGKING]

Speed work is good wen mix with heavy loads

[@jamesbecker9573]

this is total bro science but in my experience when i do speed work, i do start moving weight faster but dont actually get any stronger.

[@mauricewillems9045]

Waddup

[@AdrianFlorist]

Wazzzzzaaaaaaaaaappppp

[@cairobeast6113]

Lol u totally hate Louie for powerlifting don't ya ahha

[@operationtruth288]

Speedwork Bands Chains all BS

[@Oho159]

speed work yes. bands and chains no

[@goatbearman514]

I would say speed work is bs but overloading the top end of ROM with reversebands or chains could be good though

[@stephenhughes5156]

@@goatbearman514 Plus useful for adding variation, if you are doing max effort conjugate style.