Why You Should Quantize + Negative Track Delays Explained

If you found this video or the Negative Track Delay Database helpful and would like to show your appreciation, you can buy me a coffee:
www.buymeacoffee.com/davidkudell
Negative Track Delay Database: bit.ly/3wtyArN
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Let's talk about two subjects that go hand-in-hand and are really critical to a successful film scoring workflow: Quantizing and Negative Track Delays. This is also referred to as working “in the grid.”

[@aymanghanai4111]

That spreadsheet is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much for making it!

[@maciej74174]

The explanation of negative track delays was stunning. The idea about database very useful. Thank you so much for this content.

[@Kingchord2000]

David thank you for your selfless contribution. You are one of the lights beyond the tunnel.

[@kenjones3442]

Wow, what a wonderful contribution to music producers everywhere! 😊All I can say is THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!! 😁

[@AngelDiegoMerlo]

That´s a perfect xplanation of humanity in virtual instruments!!!Thanks David

[@aaronspaythsound]

Wow! This tip about negative delays was exactly what I needed to hear! Thanks so much! 🤩

[@rodrigororiz77]

The negative delay database is great, I found out about it last year on a VI Control post. Thanks. :)

[@ChrisMuellerMusic]

As a beginner, that is good to hear especially from someone achieved like you are. Valuable advice! Thank you David 🙏

[@MRoseProductions]

This is an invaluable tool, thanks David!

[@mikehall5835]

Enormously helpful video! Thank you!

[@jens1800]

Great work - thanks David!

[@alvarorodriguezfilmmusic]

Superbly explained! huge thanks!

[@Mikejkcjla]

Thank you for the job you’ve done to create this database.

[@PaulieDC]

Fantastic, I needed this info. Thanks!

[@mariobengalita2454]

Super awesome video...Ty David, stay safe!!!

[@agramsci7976]

Love your content and willingness to share. Thanks for all that you do.

[@SteveKirk]

Nice work explaining this!

[@mikevirtualteacher]

Thanks David, very helpful video and well produced too!

[@es__music]

I really appreciate this video and the resource!

[@mohammadadelalnassar]

Thanks for your efforts, the database is super. 🙏

[@seanfourie7]

David, once again thank you for this information, your ideas on working on the grid make so much sense, especially when doing orchestral scores. thank you for the negative delay sheet.

[@DZP...MusicForANewWorld]

Great information and so well presented..Thank you David!

[@muziksculp2r]

Thanks for the tips, and negative delay data base. Very helpful info.

[@nboisen]

Excellent video! And very useful spreadsheet. Thanks for sharing.

[@mbaldwinlobue]

Great video David thank you and thanks for the negative track delay database…awesome!

[@alexjevincent]

Bit late to the party but been using your spreadsheet for a while so massive thank you for that - has massively simplified my template. I use multi-outs in SINE or Kontakt and apply a MonoDelay in Cubase on those outs. I set the track delay to the longest articulation attack, and set the MonoDelay to the difference of the track delay minus that that articulation's attack. Same principle as the CSS Control Panel I wrote, just in audio rather than midi.

[@philippendletonmusic]

You just validated what I've been doing for awhile!

[@YujinBaek]

Honestly so well explained and clear, thanks for sharing the database as well David.

[@caradaly1661]

With the popularity of the google doc and the thread on VI CONTROL , I’m still surprised that some of the developers haven’t chimed in and just offered up the exact values for their libraries and instruments. It’s surprising how many still don’t list it in the manual. Good video and great initiative to set up the document in the first place 👍

[@DavidKudellMusic]

I think a lot of them don’t keep track of it, the samples get edited and then that’s it. Or developers decide to cut the samples as close as possible (without cutting off anything important) so that the instrument is more responsive. As opposed to developers who provide a consistent delay among everything, which sacrifices some of the live playability, but when used with the negative delays provides the most consistency.

[@musicbydavidsmith]

Fantastic! Thanks so much for this.

[@MusicalWizardryMarcoIannello]

So glad to see you advocating the use of quantisation and negative track delays! I learned it from a composer of friend of mine and this is what I have been doing since that moment. Also, I actually remember one of your posts on Perspective from a couple of years ago, I believe, where you advertised you were putting together that sheet with negative track delay values per library

[@towenaar7422]

Great video and INCREDIBLE resource, I've been looking for a resource like this. Thank you so much for the work put in here to share this.

[@dannoscordino2k]

Genius thank you so much, finally after a year I found your video, Its helps so much

[@christiana.guevara4947]

I really needed this video. Thank you David! 🎵

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Glad it was helpful!

[@citizenworld8094]

I like this guy. Gives his heart as well as his music.

[@nlamottecomposer]

Great stuff man! I'll definitely be updating my templates!

[@felixmstudio]

the database is fantastic!

[@tronam]

I’m new to your channel, but I wanted to thank you so much for all your hard work on this database. You have a new subscriber.

[@gest_hiddenlook]

Huge thank you!

[@joelwybrew]

This is awesomely helpful. Thanks so much!

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Glad you found it helpful!

[@mrmikis]

Nice. Thanks for the template!

[@Elixirmusiques]

Great work! Thanks for sharing David!

[@Kitana818]

Very helpful. Thank you!

[@starerik]

Omg, I love you for sharing that spreadsheet! ♥ I was beginning to mentally prepare myself to find out myself, but the ones I use most are already listed. Thank you!

[@fabkid72]

Really helpful - thank you David. I heard about negative delay from (your pal) Anne Dern and now you. Relieved to hear this latency is a thing, and not just me being hopeless! Cheers from Wales, UK.

[@googlekopfkind]

Thank you for your work!

[@Muzisoccer253]

incredible work, thanks a looooooot !

[@rautshsale1948]

this blew my mind so much, would have absolutely never thought that different articulations will have the need for different predelays

[@M4T]

Database is great ! You also convinced me when it comes to keyswitch patches vs individual tracks ... thanks so much !

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Both ways have their pros and cons, this is just what works for me

[@izi26]

Thanks that was very useful and informative! Well done

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Ueberschaer]

Again. Thank you for this video. It helps A LOT. Love the File on Google Drive.

[@MarkHimley]

SO grateful for the database you created. I wish I would have had this all along - thank you!!

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Glad it was helpful!

[@myroslavsaratovkin6868]

You are amazing. I am looking froward for your new tutorial. No many contents have this value.

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Thanks, hope you find it helpful

[@EvgeniyBerlin]

Very useful tips, wow, thank you!

[@anthonyworthydaretodreammu2451]

I really appreciate this information...... working on my template now.

[@AnnexationMusic]

I'm a keyswitch guy myself, and this is probably the best argument I've seen so far on utilizing single articulation tracks. Super helpful, too - very much appreciated!

[@FrankDeBaere]

You know... The reaction I see in your video at 3 min 21 sec is exactly what I experience these days! That's why I was looking for how much delay to use with my OT Berlin CAPSULE Vsti's and that's how I came across your video. Very useful and this is the first thing I will try. Thanks! 🙂

[@AharonRabinowitz]

Thank you! This was really awesome. You’re great at explaining things! I’ve known about quantizing for a long time, but the missing factor, negative track delay, is a key concept I missed. Thanks again!

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Thanks Aharon! It had such a big impact on my workflow but isn’t widely discussed…I guess it’s not a sexy topic but it’s one of those quality of life improvements.

[@MichaelJM]

Thank you for this! And for sharing that spreadsheet! Figuring out delay times drives me mad; I'm terrible at it. Amazing to be able to reference a good starting point.

[@jackiejames8575]

Thankyou David for this... my strings were tending to be haphazard as I struggled to cope with the delays... this is a great help

[@alekosvuskovic6687]

Amazing info!! Thanks

[@barrywalshe4165]

Great video thank you

[@foundpat]

Great video David. Always felt guilty about using quantise......Not anymore👍

[@confuzen-su4oq]

Great video! Audio Imperia’s approach to this problem is quite brilliant and is their libraries biggest selling point imo :D

[@Frank.Zimmermann]

Hey David, Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the Negative Track Delay Database and this video. Both are extremely helpful! 🙏 Just subscribed to your channel. Great content here! :) All the best, Frank

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Glad it’s helpful!

[@hgatetravelista]

Thank you very much for sharing this information! I found it extremely useful and generous of you to give of your time and sharing the spreadsheet - greetings and thanks from England! 🙂

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Glad it was helpful!

[@martin-raison-music-composer]

Great video and the database is a great idea!

[@FrankBell]

This video is awesome!

[@FrankBell]

And I see the sheet now! WOAH!

[@chrismusic44]

Formidable, merci ! ❤

[@toddtyler]

As a beginner, this was really great info - thanks so much!

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Great to hear it was helpful. We were all beginners at one point!

[@baldwyntin4959]

Thank you!

[@NOAHSCORE]

Thank you señor 👍😉. That was very useful 🙏

[@tomascough7531]

This is so fantastic! I’ve been bouncing to audio and using flextime on all of it. Takes f.o.r.e.v.e.r. I’m converting to negative track delays immediately 😁

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Oh wow, yes that could work but would be quite time intensive. I hope this way is a little better for you!

[@VeganKebabDoRuky]

Everyone using virtual orchestral instruments (or some other VT's) really needs to know about this!

[@Notmehimorthem]

I think this is a really good video making some excellent points, which I generally suppport, however, a couple of additional points I would like to make. Regarding notation - most played in stuff looks schozoid with messes of hemi-demi- semiquavers, on first review in nation software, but you can use display quantize to show a simplified version without changing the "played in" feel, in many notation packages. Even if your notation package does not support this feature, a common practice is to make a copy of your scored notes and then mutilate these to look legible and sane as notation. Secondly, I think that the "humanised" element of actual performances, is not simply random errors. Careful listening might find, for example, that a player might naturally hurry towards a phrases crescendo, or go rubato intentionally during a legato phrase. Whole orchestras also breathe to a conductors elbow. Eliminating this (mostly unconscious) humanised timing by quantization, then expecting later to reproduce it with DAW randomisation so called " humanize" fuctions, is not really replacing like with like, though it is of course better than rigid muzak timing. Even so, I still agree that there is stil a lot to be said for quantization though, especially if your goal is not a midi performance but a liegible score. Quantization definitely reduces mud. Lastly, for performing a take, I always consider going to my sound device and short latency beyond it's normal settings. Even if your DAW produces pops and clicks, after recording the latency can then be set back and the pops will disappear.

[@EasternPromisesMusic]

Thank you, well made and concise! I had seen the thread on vicontrol first and some of your other vids, great resource! Are we going to get that follow up on varying delays within a single instrument library/patch? :D

[@productio-musica]

We need expression maps which have the negative delays baked in. Then we could use instrument trracks instead of MIDI tracks which many composers tend to prefer!

[@maplefoxx6285]

In Reaper DAW we use a thing called Reaticulate, it is really nice, you can customize the icons and make it look all pretty with nice colors. It is a little pop up window that you dock on the side of Reaper. It is made by someone who is also on youtube. We can set the keyswitch to transpose a note, set the velocity range of a note, pitch range, double the velocity, and a few other neat things. I put in a request for note offset, it might already exist. I am uncertain, but I will find out soon.

[@SteveKirk]

@@maplefoxx6285 that sounds like a great tool!

[@maplefoxx6285]

@@SteveKirk they said about the note offset coding it is hard to get it to work right and that eventually they hope it will work per keyswitch, that would be pretty cool. Reaticulate has its own website too if you ever want to see what it is all about. Website and a github with user uploaded banks.

[@SteveKirk]

@@maplefoxx6285 per-keyswitch would be awesome!

[@simonturner1]

Apparently the new Digital Performer has this feature so hopefully Cubase etc. won't be too far behind.

[@geniicube9585]

Copy and paste...YESSS. After making Pop and EDM music for many years I just got into Orchestral music. I come from a world of quantization I never understand why musicians have an issue with something that is the de facto state in others genres. I love accidents with orchestration (because I am a noob) but not accidents with timing. As far as I am concerned perfect is perfect. I found your channel because of Anne's channel and I love your work. Thank you.

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Thanks for watching and I'm glad you found the channel from Anne - most of what I talk about here I learned from working on her team.

[@djrbfmbfm-woa]

thx for the link. j.

[@nicksaya]

Thanks For the Cheat Sheet!!!

[@georgetorres1535]

Gracias bro :)

[@Lufade]

When I first saw this video title I thought, "Oh I know quantization and negative track delay. I don't need to watch this." Man was I wrong. Not that I don't know those things, but this video was incredibly useful for the explanations and reasoning of everything involved. Thanks!

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Thanks! Great feedback. When I was scripting the video out it dawned on me I should explain not just how to do it, but the reasons why, because it does take a lot of setup time. But it pays off in the long run.

[@ComposerRocks]

@@DavidKudellMusic If you keep delving not just into the what, but the why, I just might become your biggest fan, David.

[@sonofharry1179]

Hey David. Thanks for this video. You mention for legato tracks that you usually have to nudge the first note to work. What amount do you nudge that first note?

[@Wren206]

Hello! I don't know if someone already mentioned it, but as for the doubt about where does a note start, there's a relatively easy solution I'd like to share with you: Use a spectrogram view instead of a waveform one! I've learned to understand spectrograms and it's honestly amazingly easier than guessing from viewing a waveform. Although I must admit that waveforms can be useful in some other situations too. Trust me, whenever you prepare your recorded samples for your library, this can probably be a life saver.

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Good tip! Thank you!

[@PeterBatah]

Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge with us. Much appreciated. I was wondering if the use of negative track delays across most if not all of a session would add additional strain on the PC's resources. Considering that there is much more for the system to correct and keep track of.

[@DavidKudellMusic]

I haven’t noticed any difference. It’s all just midi notes which is very basic.

[@chrisharrison809]

Ooof. I’ll be cursing how much time I spent setting up articulation maps. Have you ever experiments with one track to write the whole part and then it sending multi channel midi to multiple tracks with different track delays? Bless you for making that database bro.

[@DavidKudellMusic]

I haven't tried that, but so far what I'm doing is working well. There are other advantages to the single track method as well, such as making it easier for the orchestrator to know what kind of note you want, so it's working for me right now.

[@hazagem10]

Man, this was A.M.A.Z.I.N.G. Thanks a lot! Now, I have a question: How did you setup that macro for move the first note of every legato starting point? I find that very helpful. I'm in Logic, but maybe I could find a way to do that too. (🙏 I hope you can see this)

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Not sure if there’s a way to do it in Logic. That is one advantage of Cubase, you can set up a lot of those kinds of things using the Logical Editor.

[@Kingchord2000]

David does this apply to exporting the mixdown? My friend wants to know these things🙂

[@michaellaumusic]

Hey David, I know in your video you mention that you feel it's best to have separate tracks for each articulation. I know in DP you can set a Delay for each Articulation in its Articulation Map. This works great and have started to add the info form your Google sheet to my Babylon Waves files. Works great. Since you made the video, have you been doing that at all?

[@mikaelbaggstrom]

Great video, and very mind-opening. I love the track delay database, super useful! =) However, I assume this only works if you separate every track per articulation, and I hate working like that personally. Do you have an alternative workflow that works for multiple articulations per performance?

[@DavidKudellMusic]

You could group short and long articulations into different tracks….often the staccatos, spiccatos, and marcatos have the same or very close delay times. Then the legato could go on a separate track. It would be nice if a DAW could implement delay times into expression maps.

[@mikaelbaggstrom]

@@DavidKudellMusic Ah yes, that makes sense. Unless you write riffs and themes which jumps a lot between shorts and long legato notes. In any case, I think a good start for my use case would be to at least use the "shorts negative delay" as a the common denominator on all tracks. That way I would at least only need to move the legato notes (basically). Regarding your last sentence, yes! I feel the entire "articulation switching" would need som kind of MIDI standard. Right now it feels like the wild west haha.

[@mperstl13]

I owe you my life.

[@JosephineDeSmet]

I use native instruments in ableton and all I want to know if you have a sort of sample preset that has delay on it, how can you quantise that delay/ echo

[@dakota.stlaurent]

Hey David, when it comes to your super awesome VI track delays spreadsheet, are the times for legato patches meant to be for the legato transition times and not the initial note?

[@DavidKudellMusic]

They are for the legato transition. For the first note, you can generally subtract the legato value minus the sustain value and move the first note later by that amount to compensate for the difference. So if the legato is -150 and the sustain is -50, you’d move the first note later by 100ms.

[@stephenbeeby8850]

🙏

[@producewithease]

Awesome stuff, David! Very useful! Thank you! Could you please share what negative delay are you using on Cinematic Studio Strings for other articulations? I can see that you are using -250 for legato.

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Hey Milan, check out the database which is linked in the description, it has all of the negative delay values listed.

[@producewithease]

@@DavidKudellMusic Wow! I just realised how many libraries have you covered in that sheet! At first I just saw the woodwinds. :D Thank you for sharing that stuff!

[@jeffreycomposer]

Great stuff. What do you do with multiple track delays like in one patch, like the CSS advanced legato patches? I leave the "standard" track delay on 250ms, the medium legato. Besides this I have 3 macros with a different offset, one for the first note of every line, one for the slow legato and one for the fast legato. How do you deal with this?

[@DavidKudellMusic]

The easiest way is to use either fast or medium only on a track. Fast works great a majority of the time. I have a macro to set all notes to velocity 100, with negative delay -100. Then you can be on the grid. I have another set of tracks for medium and -250, and a macro to set all notes to a velocity of 50.

[@djrbfmbfm-woa]

hi david, you are SPOT ON with this. there is nothing worse than a sloppy orchestra. I've work with enough musos in orchestras to know they strive for precision. and being in the room when the instruments recorded showed me how different they sound close up, without all the post processing . each brand of library has its own lag time time. CineSamples for me is hardly playable in real time so quantize and neg. delay after step input. then fiddle around a bit. Sample Modelling, on the other hand is quick enough to play live and on stage. best, j.

[@michaellaumusic]

Hey David, will you be updating the database (Google Sheet) to account for the new CSS 1.7 changes as well as the others coming?

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Already did. 😉

[@simonturner1]

I wrote to the grid in this manner and submitted some music to a company and they said it sounded "too quantized". Like, who GAF? The average person isn't going to know or care!

[@michaellaumusic]

Hey David, love the Virtual Instrument Track Delay doc. How often to do you update it? Also, if there is only a negative delay in on articualtion and none in the adjacent ones, does it mean they others are the same? Example: CSW you have -60 in Staccatisimo but the cells for Staccato, Marcato and Susatains are blank.

[@DavidKudellMusic]

Hi Michael, I don't get a chance to update it as much as I should, but others are free to contribute to it as well, by contacting me on my website. For CSW, yes all the shorts are the same delay time.

[@michaellaumusic]

@@DavidKudellMusic Ok cool, thanks! I bought you a few coffees the other day. Really appreciate the Doc.

[@DavidKudellMusic]

@@michaellaumusic thanks so much for the coffees!!