Wifi & 4G connection on your boat

SEE THE UPDATE IN EPISODE 81 - THE DIGITAL YACHTS SYSTEM HAS SOME PROBLEMS
Further update: This system is not one we can recommend. It's expensive and frankly has been nothing but a problem since we installed it. It was a waste of money and now we have Starlink frankly not necessary, so glad we have an alternative to this clunky and ineffective kit.

[@bobrose7900]

The biggest issue is the SIM access... particularly if you've got it mounted at the back of the Nav Station - how many lost screws! The performance and support are excellent though and the unit seems very robust. It doesn't fallover or need rebooting like a Huawei B618 unit. Great tech reviews.

[@nickmalone3599]

Best technical series on sailing.

[@svfairisle]

Thanks Nick

[@ukandrew]

December 2021 :-) Being a tech info video and all that, I’d thought you would have shown the “Flux Capacitor” install. :-) All you need now is an Apple HomePod with a few smart connections and you’ll be “Music on, Lights on, Navigate to Monaco” I can see it all now. It looked like a beautiful evening at the end. Another well presented, very interesting and informative video. Thank you for taking the time and sharing your knowledge.

[@svfairisle]

Ha! yes maybe it was wishful thinking on my part, jumping forward to a time after Covid seems attractive right now. They've now said Italy will be in full lockdown again in March :(

[@ukandrew]

@@svfairisle Thats not the best news. Hopefully the immunisation program will make a positive dent in this ***** virus and not a moment too soon. Here, (England), there are rumours that schools will be going back fairly soon and a measured relaxation of lockdown in the weeks to follow. Hope so. Very important because my hair is in need of serious barber shop attention, they mentioned something about scaffolding! :-) Keep smiling. Best regards, Andrew.

[@thearchibaldtuttle]

More electronics than Apollo 11! Exciting stuff!

[@ukrainewarroom]

I use a Teltonika RUT955 - it has worked really well, it can hold two SIM cards at the same time, which you can then configure for failover between them. Coupled that with Ubiquiti HD Nano access point and a Ubiquiti Cloudkey Gen2+ which controls the wifi kit and CCTV cameras + recordings. The Ubiquiti kit I'm very impressed with.

[@svfairisle]

Yes having the ability to have two sims is great especially when you're travelling around. We would like to have the UK and local (Italian at the moment) sims in place while we're in Europe. Makes no sense having the sim screwed into a box on the Digital Yachts system

[@johnhayford5946]

The RUT955 interface looks identical to the Digitalyacht device, and does the same job at a fraction of the price.

[@ukrainewarroom]

@@svfairisle THREE do an unlimited data SIM which they sell a limited number of each year. I use that mostly, plus no roaming charges for most of Europe. I think it was £25 pcm for the first six then £38.99 after that. I use this as our main internet connection as I live in the boonies... Just waiting on Starlink.

[@ukrainewarroom]

@@johnhayford5946 teltonika do better models than that too, I think Mads on Sail life installed a Teltonika Modem recently, not sure which model - don't think it was the 955 though as it looked bigger. The 955 is about the size of a pack of butter (Or two sticks to American readers).

[@svfairisle]

@@R.E.HILL_ that sounds interesting, thanks I look it up

[@Lisakaylindsay256]

Good video even for those who live aboard and aren’t sailing at the moment. Looking into WiFi for my boyfriend so we can have better internet and streaming capability.

[@paxbritanica8091]

Following the link the current version seems to show 2 external SIM slots. Possibly a sensible modification. I'm certainly interested, as I have been looking at systems for my sailing yacht. Thank you.

[@svfairisle]

Yes they've made some updates, I hope the two sim cards have been made easily accessible.

[@Nerd3927]

I am doing a lot of this with just a Raspberry Pi. It is a WiFi access point and connects to my phone's Wifi when it is on. Otherwise it falls back to the harbor wifi. Using kplex on the raspberry, the RS323 connections from the GPS and the AIS are made available on the Wifi. This makes it possible to use a tablet chart plotter anywhere on the boat. Works for Navionics, OpenCPN and WinGPS. I should make a video of it all... but that has been in the planning for a while now.

[@svfairisle]

Sounds interesting, looking forward to the video, although I'll have to polish up my Dutch first!

[@brandtall9639]

I know this will help with you utube postings but please stop putting holes I my boat. lol You guys sold me on center console type boats. Can't afford yours but really like Hallberg Rassy 40. Great to see you're keeping busy and are still on the water. Love your videos.

[@svfairisle]

A HR 40 would be an excellent choice I think

[@ralph9987]

great idea, but there are cheaper and more elegant options for this. just a silly question, why did you need a longer cat cable for the TV is you have it connected to WIFI? thanks

[@svfairisle]

Just because the WiFi is via an Amazon fire stick which is pretty flaky so I prefer it hard wired

[@JayPerrypersonal]

Also just for interest. Vodafone Ireland for €20 offer unlimited data package that works in Europe and many other countries including Caribbean. Vodafone UK limit to 25gb per month when roaming but Vodafone Ireland definitely unlimited. In Greece and Spain we were getting speeds of 50 to 120 mbps mostly and when stuck in the boat due to covid isolation we did over a terabyte of download in a month. We have a WiFi booster but never really used it last year due to faster unlimited 4g

[@thomasdoehler13]

I know I'm somewhat late to the party, but would you recommend this for a 36ft fibre glass yacht sailing in the Med? What is the power consumption like?

[@svfairisle]

Thanks for reminding me to update the description to this video (which i've done now) You asked about the power consumption, well thats the only good thing about the system, it's negligible. Unfortunately although we've battled to get this system to work well it really hasn't, it's pretty much let us down at every stage and I would go as far to say that its the biggest mistake we've made on the boat fitting this gear. luckily now Elon Musk has come to the rescue and we have something that actually works! Sadly though the power consumption is pants!

[@filiphering4765]

Filip Hering I think that your Sail Channel is the best in the whole bluewater scene and I think that in addition to your knowledge, I can also see the years in front of and behind the camera. There is never a wrong camera position and, above all, you can see that you are used to speaking into a camera. Bin myself from the film production business. Can I ask for advice? I have my sailboat in Greece and would like to work from boat over the summer. Do I understand correctly that the device WL510 amplifies the Wifi signal from the bar in marina and 4G Connect Pro from the transmission mast if I am anchoring? Do i need both devices? My work is not as data-intensive as your job, but sometimes Zoom meeting will come. Otherwise only budgets and cost reports :-)

[@svfairisle]

Thanks for your kind words. Yes the Digital Yachts system has the 4G connect box which has antennas mounted on it to pick up 4G. If you dont have a steel boat then most coastal positions will have good enough signal to have this box inside and still get a great signal. I will be much stronger than your phone. The external antennas that i fitted will be pick up signals at a much greater distance but you dont necessarily need them. The WL510 box is to try and sniff out wifi at a distance. We're in lock down so haven't been able to get out and test it since we fitted it, but we do now get a great wifi signal from the marina that we couldn't get at all from the boat before. Judy has been on very long zoom calls with it, works great.

[@returner323617]

Nice work. There is, of course, the cheap and nasty alternative: a "burner" phone with local SIM, one that has very good battery life, configured as a Personal Hotspot, placed in a waterproof container, and then run-up to the top of the mast. This will give you the desired on-boat Wi-Fi coverage. Obviously, it will have nothing like the range or the permanency of your setup, but good enough as a temporary solution, and is especially appropriate when chartering.

[@JayPerrypersonal]

Hi great video. Why however Digital hub uses all that coax cable is beyond stupid. It's not their system but UBNT, Ubiquity bullet they stuck on a box. For years we have used the bullet titanium connected directly to the 16dbi omni directional antenna. Only cable you need to run is a cat5e or cat6 cable to the bullet radio. This powers the radio over POE. Far better as higher gain antenna than the 9dbi with Digital Yacht, as every 3dbi gain doubles distance. We have connected at 10 miles with WiFi booster. Also half the cost of the Digital Yacht system. They do change a lot for just putting other people's equipment and software in a box! If you would like to test what we use happy to arrange a system for you to test, use. At the moment we Don sell them but could if people interested. I simply put a system together as I do own a wireless ISP company and have 15 years experience in wireless Internet. Any questions just give me a shout.

[@mufflejoy]

Sorry if I sound like a bit of a cheapskate, but is this complete and utter overkill? How many extra miles from shore do you get beyond your phone? 5? 10? How much satellite gear could you have bought? I looked at getting a 4G wifi hub and found that 1) I can share wifi on my phone for free and 2) the extra sim necessary is a monthly cost and 3) the hub itself is an extra draw on batteries. Didn't make any sense.

[@svfairisle]

Depends on what you are doing I suppose. If your only need is getting more range out to sea then maybe not. But for us living and working from the boat and needing fast internet for video it’s a must. It’s paid for itself twice over already. Judy’s been doing all day crisis media training from the boat in zoom which was impossible without this gear, we got signal but not fast enough for that on mobile or WiFi, now it’s fast enough on both. And of course putting up the videos is a constant hassle for fast data. That’s just convenience for us really we’ve been able to get by taking the computer ashore in most places. The SIM card thing isn’t an issue for us either we need at least 3 to have enough data per month as there no way to get unlimited when you’re not resident.

[@mnashint]

Thanks

[@mikeattree2202]

Presumably using a hi-gain (12dB?) Wi-Fi antenna means dropping the transmission power quite a bit to stay legal? (Maximum EIRP on 2.4GHz Wi-Fi in Europe is only 100mW)

[@svfairisle]

Yes it's a 12dB antenna, but adjustable up to 600mW. It will lock you to whatever the local country limit is by default (it asks for a location) but you can over-ride it "for situations when you're off shore" is what Digital yachts say!

[@mikeattree2202]

Ah, so manufacturers claims of 1km Wi-Fi range most likely relate to “offshore use”…@@svfairisle

[@mnashint]

Did you test the range from the shore?

[@svfairisle]

I gave up testing, the kit just doesn’t work well, you occasionally get a decent connection that wouldn’t have been possible without the gear but frankly most of the time my phone could do better. The software is flaky and the hardware unreliable, we gave it a 1/10 in our long term test review a couple of years back. My advice, stay away from Digital Yachts products!

[@michaelsteel688]

So you're are always relying on a cellular signal? How does that work in remote places or offshore? Why not just go with a satellite solution this way you always have the same signal?

[@svfairisle]

Until Starlink comes up with a mobile receiver there’s no option for big data usage. Iridium Go and the like are good for very low data usage at sea but that’s all. In the Med a high powered 4g setup gets you data pretty much everywhere

[@michaelsteel688]

@@svfairisle I'm in the Caribbean and not much data pick up here. I guess we all have to wait for Elon Musk to finish his satellite job :)

[@martincrick2158]

I have the 4G Connect from DigitalYacht, but not the shore WiFi extender. I also found the need to dismantle the box to change the SIM card frustrating, especially as I was using pre-paid SIM cards as being the best rate I could get. I queried it with DigitalYacht and was told it was because the electronics of the SIM card are delicate and need more protection from the sea atmosphere. I'm a bit sceptical of the explanation since there aren't actually any seals on the outer box, so I don't really think it provides much extra protection, but that's the official word! I agree the software is complex, but that does mean all the settings are there. On modems with simpler software, it usually means things are hidden from you. One problem I've had is that I can't get the dropdown menus to work on an iPad - only if I connect a mouse. Digital Yacht flatly denied this was true - have you had problems? One option I strongly recommend you hunt down is the option to forward SMS messages. You can set these to forward to your regular phone. Reason: if your SIM card in the 4G Connect is about to expire, or any other problem, the network provider will notify you by SMS. This will sit on the router unnoticed by you until service stops! There's probably a slight cost to forwarding SMS messages, but most contracts include a few for free, and you're unlikely to be sending many from the 4G Connect anyway. At the end of the video, you show plugging the TV into the router via an ethernet cable, but the onscreen displays shows the TV is connected to Fair Isle WiFi. Was it really using the cable connection or was it actually over the onboard WiFi? Also, I may have misunderstood you, but when at anchor why would you prefer watching streaming content on the laptop rather than your big screen TV? I don't think there's any difference in the download bandwidth. If you're watching content already stored on the laptop, you should be able to display that on the TV screen too.

[@svfairisle]

I think you're right the Sim card excuse is rubbish, we've all been running around with them in phones for years. I had early Nokias with just a crappy piece of plastic over the whole sim card / battery compartment & they were pretty indestructible. I've not tried to control via the ipad, I will try it out when we get back to the boat, we're up at lake Garda for a couple of days at the moment. I did realise the the lack of SMS would mean not getting the data warnings, but didn't know there was a way of making this work. I'll have a look, thanks. Sharp eyes at the end there as well. Yes it did grab the Wifi (I had an Amazon stick in) didn't notice at the time. But actually now I've removed the stick as the ethernet connection is much more stable & probably faster.

[@svfairisle]

Oh and the at anchor bit is just about power. The TV is 240v so requires the inverter and we have a decent sound system which draws a couple of Amps as well so we usually just run the lap-top and have the sound out of a little blue tooth speaker. Now when we get our hands on a lovely set of lithium batteries...

[@petersmith8134]

@@svfairisle Lithium? I thought you were dead against lithium?

[@paulreading8980]

I have almost exactly the same device it is called a Hubba Global. It is a single device that takes 2 sims and receives 4G it also has another Ariel input for a shore based Wi-fi extender. I then connect the output via Ethernet to a Digital Yacht Wi-fi to make a boat Wi-fi. However I cannot get the Wi-fi extender to work with any networks. If I take the Hubba home it works, it I ho to a marina I can connect to the network but it won’t route. I was so frustrated I was going to give up on it and buy the digital yacht version but the salesman said that the reason it wasn’t working was because most marina WiFi’s now recognise routers by their MAC addresses which are on a public register. He said it was better to get a ships computer to connect directly to the shore Wi-fi and then hotspot the computer because the marina WiFi’s do not block computers.

[@svfairisle]

@@petersmith8134 I was hoping to put it off for a few years while the tech gets better and cheaper,, but the loss of my generator may have pushed that forward! I was only ever dead against the lithium before LiFePO because of the fire risk. LiFePO themselves are much safer, but I’m still wary of BMS that can cut you off. I do have a neat little ‘solar generator’ that I’m testing at the moment though which might get me out of a hole this season and be a useful back up if we do go lithium. I’ll show it in the next episode.

[@ollimacp]

Am I missunderstanding somthing? At 5:20 your wifi channel is shown to the far right and you're in channel 2

[@svfairisle]

Yes sorry it's not that clear mainly because when I shot it i was illustrating the fact that i couldn't find a way to swap which channel Fair Isle was on if the marina wifi happened to be on the same channel. That's what I've done with other systems. I then noticed that Fair Isle, which was originally using CH6 (that's the bit that you don't really get from the vision) had swapped to channel 2 all by itself. So it seems the system automatically switches to a channel with the least interference. How good it is at doing that i'm not going to find out until we're sailing again and visiting lots of places.

[@gordonross4952]

Did you ever research and have a water maker installed yet guys?

[@svfairisle]

Yes we were hoping to get one fitted this winter but for all sorts of reasons I don't think that will happen now. Research I've done this far is pointing towards either schenker or spectra.

[@gordonross4952]

Ahh...Good choices! After much research I’ve just ordered a Schenker Zen 30 which will fit our needs just fine and only draws 9amps. Although it only makes 30 ltrs/hr I hear that many users let it run for several hours per day as it’s so quiet and draws so little. Even though we’ve got an 8kw genny, which we run for about an hour daily, as we are all electric cooking I still think that the DC option seems best. Filling our tanks has always influenced where we sail and when so looking forward to greater independence. Will be interested to see what you opt for. Oh! and you’re in the perfect place to order one as they’re made in Italy!

[@svfairisle]

@@gordonross4952 Ha! yes I realise that, I did email them to get some tech info and the guy there knew us, I was hoping they may do us a deal, but things are slow at the moment with Covid, it's difficult to get things ordered here.

[@gmssails]

Your voice sounds so different when you're reading a voice-over versus speaking on camera. Did you hire a voice actor? :)

[@svfairisle]

ha! no, that would be nice! I just had a bit of a cold the day I did the voiceover, that's what going back to the UK does for you!

[@goeasy1232]

@@svfairisle Isn't it nice to have a pro that knows how to record and balance sound. Maybe you could do a little tech video for other KZbinrs to tell then how to do it? Some of the other channels have great content but are un-listenable. Do you use audio compression?

[@svfairisle]

@@goeasy1232 thanks! I sometimes use ‘normalise’ on Premiere for some voice tracks that gives a bit of compression but only if it needs it, but normally it’s just a matter of riding the sound.

[@davidwarnes5158]

When you pick up WiFi from a bar ashore , how do you get the log in code for that WiFi?

[@svfairisle]

You go and have a drink and ask!... it's win - win!!

[@returner323617]

Go and buy 1 drink... :-)

[@davidwarnes5158]

@@svfairisle cheers , that's what I thought .

[@markbennett9787]

You mentioned BBC iPlayer. How do you access it when you’re not in the U.K? I live in France and access is denied .

[@svfairisle]

You have to use a VPN. I used Tunnel Bear for a couple of years but they started not to be so good at beating the iPlayer. I’m now with Express VPN which used work every time but they too have started to falter, it’s a cat & mouse game.

[@markbennett9787]

@@svfairisle I thought you might be doing that, I haven’t got into VPNs as I know they’re fallible.

[@sirox68]

I have zero problem watching BBC iPlayer in Italy and France using NordVPN. Many VPNs are really bad, the only good ones I know are NordVPN and SurfShark. They both have apps for the Amazon TV sticks and Apple TV, as well as ipads, laptops, etc. Super reliable, I watch anything from anywhere.

[@svfairisle]

@@sirox68 good to know, if express VPN craps our on me I’ll try Nord

[@svfairisle]

@@sirox68 good to know, if express VPN craps our on me I’ll try Nord

[@richardlamkin6810]

no link for where you can get this product

[@svfairisle]

I’ll put a link in the description to where I got ours.

[@gerhardvanwaltsleben8944]

Lekker man lekker

[@John-dk6eh]

Episode 260 from SV Delos trials a new system from Viasat Maritime.

[@sirox68]

Starts at $1,800 per month! Not really for normal people.

[@JayPerrypersonal]

Yeah not cheap. Plan is to maybe make a smaller more affordable version. However I'd say keep an eye on Starlink from spaceX. Home dishes at the moment but this will be the future of mobile Internet.

[@fransdriesen1311]

4G connection is 4th generation WiFi..Your system might have been set up for the 2.4GHz band. This band has wider reach from the shore based AP (Access Point) over the 5GHz band. (Not to be confused with 5G network) The 2.4GHz band has 11 channels and they are about 20MHz wide, hence they DO overlap.(Channel 1-6-11 are NON overlapping) .Router software will auto select a clear channel to avoid interferences and keep it there. I don't know how detailed the help files are..My suggestion is to lock in one of these NON overlapping channels like Ch 6) But Once in a spot and you notice some marginal or scratchy reception, because of channel interference, you might do a router re-boot and it might select another channel....Just some background info..And don't forget in the tcp/ip protocol your WiFi also talks to the shore AP. Atmospheric condition can also affect your WiFi UHF efficiency ..

[@svfairisle]

Yes With my old system I would look at what channels the strongest Wifi signals around were on an manually pick a channel group away from the strongest signals. This one does change on its own, I’m not sure if does it on the fly, I think as you say a reboot from time to time would probably be the best way if there’s a change in location.

[@SailingABSea]

(Baz) Mmmmm boy toys. How many amps does the box draw?

[@svfairisle]

Oh tiny, it's milli Amps.

[@jmayuk]

One test that would be of interest would be to see what sort of speeds you can get at anchor, near a marina or offshore. Of course, every provider will trot out their figures as to what "might" or "should" be achievable, but it would be great to see that in the real world. Something like speedtest(dot)net would be able to give you that information.

[@svfairisle]

Yes i'll post something on speeds when we've tried it in a few places. I can tell you the Wifi in Certosa Marina straight isn't strong enough down below, but on deck I get less than 1 Mb/s and often dropping to nothing. Taking the laptop and sitting right under the wifi antenna at the dockside I got 10Mb/s fairly stable and that's exactly what I get on board with the Digital Yachts system. So it seems to be able to pick up signal from about 250metres away with no loss in signal or speed. And of course, as it's being picked up from the big high gain antenna on the back arch then pushed around the boat by the wifi hub mounted by the chert table, we get good speed everywhere on the boat.

[@stephenbradshaw5311]

I have installed a similar system on my FP but I'm curious as to why you did not install one of the external 4G antennas on top of the mast? I have had signal 50KM from land this way and yes used the larger cable to allow for any signal loss so getting in the conduit was a lot of fun. Also, my unit has the option to install dual sim cards and they can be accessed easy from the front of the unit, however, I can see that the unit you are using could be housed in a mechanical space rather than the cockpit. equipment used and delighted with is teltonika-networks.com/product/rutx11/

[@svfairisle]

Yes the Digital Yachts system is let down by some poor design in software and hardware. Shame as the quality of the components are excellent.