Will Gearbox Pro or Vatic Pro Oni be banned & new Joola Gen 3 statement...

[@titaniumsandwedge]

There are two possible reasons for this debacle. First off, coefficient of restitution is a straightforward test. When you bounce several pickleballs and select the one with the highest bounce, you are selecting the one with the highest coefficient of restitution. A governing body must be transparent in their test methods. All manufacturers are aware of the tests and design products knowing USAP will test them to the known tests. If Joola knew the test requirements and made a hotter paddle knowing it would fail at USAP, then bad on them. However, if USAP changed the test protocol without telling the manufacturers, then bad on them. Prototype Gen 3s code named Alpha were tested and passed by the USAP. The production version, Gen 3s failed their testing at USAP. Somewhere in here is the truth but both sides don't want us to know what it is.

[@italipino24]

That last sentence hits. Too true.

[@pickleballtechdude]

DE-LISTED PADDLE LIST: VATIC PRO: Oni Flash 14MM Oni Flash 16MM Oni V7 16MM Oni V7 14MM Oni V7-LH 14MM Oni V7-LH 16MM RONBUS: R1 Ripple JOOLA: Anna Bright Scorpeus 3 14mm Ben Johns Hyperion 3 16mm Ben Johns Hyperion 3 14mm Ben Johns Perseus 3 14mm Ben Johns Perseus 3 16mm Collin Johns Scorpeus 3 16mm Hyperion Alpha 2024 16mm Hyperion Alpha 2024 14mm Magnus Alpha 2024 16mm Magnus Alpha 2024 14mm Perseus Alpha 2024 16mm Perseus Alpha 2024 14mm Scorpeus Alpha 2024 16mm Scorpeus Alpha 2024 14mm Simone Jardim Hyperion 3 16mm Tyson McGuffin Magnus 3 14mm Tyson McGuffin Magnus 3 16mm

[@86309]

this is crazy, Joola G3 are slower than the GBPPE, and they are delisted. does that make any sense, how far back is USAP willing to go? I my view USAP is off their rocker by doing this. set the speed at the GBPPE as the MAX, then get on with it, any new companies making paddles faster than the GBPPE should not be approved. but to go backwards and leave some paddles in and delist others....BAD USAP.

[@jaeronmoreno3224]

As of now, the Vatic Oni is scheduled to be banned… bummer. I was excited to use that one but guess I’m going back to the Prism.

[@pickleballtechdude]

Woah source? 👀

[@jaeronmoreno3224]

@@pickleballtechdude I got an email from Daryl from Vatic. Seems like they’re cracking down on all gen 3s now

[@ClaySandefur]

@@pickleballtechdudeI just got my email from Vatic too. It’s scheduled to be delisted. Offering full refunds.

[@pickleballtechdude]

Can you forward me that email? [e-mail] - thanks!

[@jaeronmoreno3224]

@@pickleballtechdude just forwarded it to you!

[@jorowi]

I got the same response from Vatic about the Oni. I had some friends convinced to buy one and they brought up the possibility of the Oni being delisted. Instead of getting two sales, I got none. People know I'm a an affiliate and a strong promoter of Vatic and they're asking me a lot of questions.

[@pickleballtechdude]

Let me know if anything changes!

[@jorowi]

@@pickleballtechdude Oni will be delisted. I got an email from Vatic. kzbin.info10L-1DT6MbY?si=mKBdE4DRQDAAVkYB

[@boriskrieger1477]

I have the Magnus Gen 3 in 14mm and 16mm. So far, I return the 16mm and replaced it with the Jack Sock Signature paddle. I haven’t received the return label from Joola and I might replace it with a Paddletek or Gearbox paddle. Such a bummer I really love the sound of the Gen 3 and the shaping ability. I definitely had to shorten my backswing. The design is beautiful. I wonder what Tyson and Ben are playing now or in the future

[@gorgangorgan3]

Your final comment on Spin vs. Power is spot on. Grit isn’t an issue, but power & pop certainly are. After playing some 5.0 matches vs. gearbox pro power & joola gen 3, these paddles take the sport to a new level. People are missing the sweet spot, barely swinging & it launches off to a point where you can’t anticipate the power being handed at you. USAP needs more transparency with testing & to ban the gearbox power & the new Christian Alshon Paddeltek - which are both extremely hot paddles. I haven’t played with/against Vatic’s, but I’ve heard similar. I think Engage’s new MX series should be a top threshold after owning that paddle for a couple months

[@pickleballtechdude]

Will definitely be interested to see which paddle is used as the upper threshold for the CoR testing!

[@dyongc1]

​@trumpisastump9382 what's your DUPR?

[@edwardlacalifornia9634]

The paddles and balls are getting ridiculous. Its not Pickleball anymore, its now called SMASH 💥 BALL

[@mrfofung]

You called it Oni delisted Played against a gearbox pro this weekend… my god it’s a rocket launcher.. it has to be next.

[@pickleballtechdude]

We can only guess…

[@Gary-W]

Class action lawsuit isn't going anywhere with them refunding all customers.. If it makes it in front of a judge he will dismiss it on motion from Joola.

[@123BV8]

Is Joola refunding buyers that did not purchase through Joola or an authorized dealer/distributor? Though those do say USA Pickleball Approved.

[@Gary-W]

@@123BV8 all buyers bought through them or a retailer.. Like pickleball central,etc

[@michaelboano7183]

If JOOLA refunds cost of paddle it seems that it , in essence, they cured any negligence or contract violation. Yet, since the lawsuit also alleges fraud can’t the Plaintiffs argue for damages due this different allegation?

[@boriskrieger1477]

I bought the Magnus 16mm Gen 3 from Pickleball Superstore and they send me immediately a return label. So no issues

[@Gary-W]

@@michaelboano7183 Not sure any attorney will take the case forward with them refunding the paddles.. Proving fraud is very difficult.. Proving that they knew the paddle would fail or that they purposely submitted the wrong paddle so it would be aporoved is very difficult.. Don't see any attorney putting in the effort and hoping to recoup that with a judgement.. If they also hadn't agreed to refund the paddles that would be a different story..

[@sbinsdca]

Amazing they let the GB PPE fly when it's the hottest paddle available and has a floating core.

[@moml3683]

I have had my Perseus 3 since mid April. Before it was delisted. I planned on keeping it because I Assumed I would not be playing in USA sanction tournaments. But this week I have run into 3 local tournaments that will not allow it. I do not want to get used to it and then have to switch for tournaments. Also, people are starting to make comments about using an “illegal” paddle. It does have notably, more power than my CRBN1X, But seems very comparable to my Engage pursuit MX . Sadly I will return mine.

[@notnotnownow9622]

It's not about the power, it's about the trampoline effect that makes you generating a lot of power with lower swing. I played against a GB and a Magnus - the Magnus was way more brutal.

[@moml3683]

Interesting…maybe I’ll drag out my GB again;)

[@CoreTekPB]

God when will someone actually do some math and run the numbers on this. Run the actual numbers based on what they suggested. See what you get

[@pickleballtechdude]

Shhh stop saying my video ideas out loud! USAP hasn’t provided any clarity on how they run the tests and what the threshold is but I’m putting something together in the meantime 🤫

[@kimleith1378]

Sounds like a "calibration" issue. If the same paddle are both failing and passing then that seems logical. I would much rather have a high spin paddle over a power paddle. ATP's from the base line would be awesome. Keeping my GBPro Pwr E. Update the spin allowed by USPA.

[@attybong]

it's been a month since you've posted this, has usap banned these paddles yet? gearbox pro has more foam and therefore produces more trampoline effect than joola gen3s ..😢😂

[@pickleballtechdude]

I addressed the Vatic Oni did end up being banned in my breakdown of the Joola lawsuit! The gearbox paddle has not and will not be banned under current regulations

[@attybong]

@@pickleballtechdude yes that is true .. i'm just wondering, if joola gen3's technological design is patterned after gearbox pro (use of foam to produce trampoline effect) why the different treatment by usap between the two brands? i'm starting to believe this is all business and politics .. lol !!

[@rentalsbe41]

I was thinking of getting the Paddletek TKO-CX but I hear it is power. Do you think that one will get delisted?

[@pickleballtechdude]

Without USAP publishing the limits of the CoR test and how it’s measured there’s no way to tell… some paddles are safer like the GB Pro series since they’ve been approved for so long but with the TKOs being out very recently I can’t be 100% sure

[@sbinsdca]

@@pickleballtechdude the GB PP series aren't safer. They have more power than the Joola G3 paddles. The ball off the surface is more unpredictable too. I used a PPE for a few weeks and had to switch back because of the unpredictable nature of the surface on returns. These other companies with banned paddles should make them re-test the GB coefficient of restitution. We've all seen the overlay videos of the ball acceleration from a hard flick. We've also experienced the ridiculous power when someone cracks an overhead. It's like playing against an illegal EVA paddle.

[@frankgiurleo]

I m really pissed at Pickleball USA!

[@DianSusiana98]

If Gearbox Pro and Vatic Pro Oni are banned, does USAP have any authority? It will lose public trust. I'm still thinking about getting these two paddles. I'm currently mainly using the Hudef viva pro gen 3, which has great control,spin and power.

[@AlanChang1]

Pity what happens to the Joola but Vatic Pro Oni is different in that they were already listed as approved in Feb-2024. Not sure about the Gearbox Pro

[@pickleballtechdude]

Joola was technically approved Sep-2023 (according to them) - GB Pro precedes both of them from the middle of last year so I think that’s a big reason they won’t delist

[@brandonrunkle9486]

I am still wanting the Magnus gen 3 and I am going to buy it next week. I do believe it is a powerful paddle, however, power isn’t everything in pickleball and I don’t think it’s as powerful as what everyone is making them out to be. Are they powerful? Yes, is it so powerful that it changes the game? I don’t think so but that’s just my 2 cents… I come from tennis and I think it will just be a different style of play. Some people like more power, others like more control.

[@123BV8]

Careful, they core crush easily, used one for 2, 3 hour sessions and it core crushed, Joola replaced it, just sent it back for a refund, didn’t want to deal with the whiners and the hassle of sending it back for warranty issues. If you don’t hit hard, then it might work out for you.

[@WhitePillMan]

Thanks for the update. Joola is full of it. They tried to pull a fast one. Your video has a few freezes btw.

[@pickleballtechdude]

You’re absolutely right! Apologies for that and for anyone else wondering there isn’t anything important or new during this cut outs- just a little editing mishap 🫠

[@WhitePillMan]

@@pickleballtechdude no worries just wanted to help

[@billkennedy401]

Who is getting 2400 rpm???

[@pickleballtechdude]

So far all the Gen 3s, PIKKL, Spartus Apollo, Volair paddles, etc those are what I remember off the top of my head

[@attybong]

i'll keep my perseus gen3 .. i'm not playing usap sanctioned match anyway .. i have the gen2 though 😢😂

[@blackbeardgoatjr2434]

So you're that guy......

[@brianbanks3044]

If the paddle they submitted was the wrong one, imagine how much more powerful was it than the current Joolas????...the ones that people are using are crazy fast...i find it hard to believe that Joola submitted the wrong paddles

[@pickleballtechdude]

I think the opposite might be true - that Joola submitted paddles less powerful and less gritty that the market ones. Whether or not they did it intentionally is gonna be HUGE...

[@protab09]

seems like everyone should just get a Gamma paddle now... Airbender is top tier!

[@attybong]

gen3s were approved when they sold it, it was only sometime later that the same were delisted .. people who bought gen3s after the delisting are fully aware of such fact .. as for damages to consumers, the same is a matter of proof .. there is no social humiliation if you use gen3s in rec games more so if you bought the paddle fully aware of the final decision of delisting .. lastly, the sanction applies only to usap sanctioned matches .. so, for all i care !! 😂😢😮

[@seanwilson512]

Technically they weren't approved when they sold them. The paddles that were tested/approved weren't the same as the ones being sold. Plus it sounds like Joola knew there was an issue a few weeks before the launch. Joola decided to start selling them anyway, assuming the actual paddles would pass the testing. They lost that gamble and here we are.

[@attybong]

@@seanwilson512 well, i believe it's the other way around .. the mistake on the part of joola (if at all it was) nothwithstanding, the paddles were technically approved when it was launched and offered to the market .. as for the sale of the paddles while their appeal is being considered, obviously the decision of delisting at the time was not as yet final .. therefore, again technically, joola cannot be blamed for continuing to market the paddles pending appeal, moreso because the issue was well publicized and not hidden from the public .. anyway, the ban only applies to usap sanctioned matches .. so, unless you are a pro and are playing such usap tournaments, the ban does not cover you at all ..

[@pickleballtechdude]

Since Joola is allowing paddles to be refunded prior to them even being delisted I am under the assumption they are admitting the paddles they sold are not what got approved. As far as social stigma it's definitely not everywhere personally I don't care and neither do most people I know but it does exist in places that really care about the official rules of the sport

[@seanwilson512]

@attybong Joola fully admitted to sending in the wrong paddles to obtain the original approvals, so there's really no debate there - Joolas fault and they said it themselves. I do agree that paddles purchased after the de-listting should come with some buyer's risk but when the company is telling consumers they are confident the paddles meet the guidelines and will get back on the list, the company has some responsibility for the final outcome also. For the not affecting anyone but Pros, that is incorrect. I've read several posts about local tournaments and even local clubs banning them from league and even open rec play. You could say who cares and you'll play with what you want but if it's a private club, their rules.

[@attybong]

@@seanwilson512 what i'm saying is that the ban imposed by usap applies only to ournaments sanctioned by said body and that is a fact. if other organizers follow despite the fact that their tournaments are not being usap sanctioned anyway, then that's their call .. if you want to avail of the refund which joola is offering, assuming you have one, that's also your call. but i'm keeping mine, after all, our rec club is not stupid enough to follow rules which does not apply to us

[@DanielHerrejonTrevino]

Can I please have a free paddle?❤❤❤❤❤

[@erikcooper4750]

Sending my Magnus 14mm back for a refund. However I just won another in a tournament, so I might keep it until the lawsuit is settled.

[@WisdomInsightReality]

Have you ever started, operated or owned a successful company?

[@123BV8]

Stop whining. If you don’t win every game it’s okay…..

[@pickleballtechdude]

Losing games is my favorite pass time tbh

[@jev2867]

Stop whining. If you don't win every game, it's OK. No need to cheat with equipment.

[@123BV8]

@@jev2867 Don’t play anyone that is more athletic than you, or drilled more, or practiced more……sent ours back for a refund, didn’t ant to hear more whining….

[@jev2867]

@@123BV8 I don't play cheaters. Pickleball is already laughed at and ridiculed as a sport. We don't need cheaters to add to it. You felt good having an advantage by cheating?

[@CoreTekPB]

And then pickleball when you can't win you eliminate your competition

[@frost6621]

1st

[@thecontralawrian7575]

I asked on Twitter / X what the Joola failure was for. I looked at Rule 2.E and wanted to know what specifically was the issue. I will still play with my Perseus Gen3 and change to my older Perseus for any tourneys that are USAP. tournaments

[@CoreTekPB]

Maybe they really did skimp on the quality control. I mean maybe they really really skimped