🇿🇦 Will land reform destroy South Africa's economy? | The Stream

#Brexit
The 500km border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is possibly one of the biggest obstacles in Britain’s departure from the EU, and there is no agreed plan of what it will look like after May 2020.
British PM Theresa May has made several speeches in the past week outlining her vision for the UK’s future economic relationship with the EU, and its exit strategy. She has ruled out the return of physical infrastructure on the border between Ireland and the Republic, but provided few details on how to prevent customs checks. She is also pushing for a free trade deal that many EU lawmakers have criticised.
We’ll take a look at the issue of the border between Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in ongoing Brexit negotiations.
#55Strong
In the US state of West Virginia, public school teachers are still on strike. They walked out February 22 over low pay and poor insurance benefits. West Virginia public school teachers earn an average salary of about $45,000, making them among the lowest paid educators in the country.
Last week after negotiations, West Virginia Governor Jim Justice and the union leaders agreed that teachers and service personnel would receive a 5% pay raise. But the state Senate only passed a 4% raise. Union leaders say the teachers won't return to work until they get the 5% increase.
Their strike and the social media movement around #55strong has ignited a discussion about educators in the United States, we’ll check in with one striking teacher.
#LandExpropriation
On February 27 South African lawmakers voted in favour of a proposal to amend the constitution to allow “land expropriation without compensation.” The move was sparked by the leader of the Economic Freedom Fighters party Julius Malema, and supported by the ruling ANC.
If the constitutional change is amended there will be a move to reclaim land taken from black people without paying current owners. Defenders say this policy helps disenfranchised black South Africans who lost their property rights and land under colonial rule and then apartheid legislation. Critics say it is dividing the country and it will destroy the economy, as it did in Zimbabwe. South African president Cyril Ramaphosa has said there will be “no smash and grab” land reform.
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[@MarktheSharkC]

This is absolutely the biggest mistake South Africa could make! Zimbabwe should have been the perfect model to see that this land reform will not work! South Africa is a great country but has declined in so many ways due to the ANC. The ANC and EFF are going to destroy the economy that is left in South Africa. You can say what you want but South Africa was a great economy and the Rand was worth more than the US dollar. If they pass this land reform then RSA will be nothing more Than a broke, chaotic 3rd world country! What a shame!

[@amandazondo3261]

Great economy or not, Blacks keep suffering regardless

[@houwshoulinou2726]

Why do they only target the commercial farms? There are land unoccupied or state owned. Why the producing farms?

[@dookiejuju192]

i herd of a story of a black ''farmer'' that got some farm land from a white family in Zimbabwe after confiscation,he immediately dug up the copper pipes used for irrigation and scraped it,eventually he ran out of food and abandoned the land.

[@4ts135]

South Africa seems to be moving at breakneck speed, at least in respect to political changes and disturbances. Upon looking at the current state that it's in, I would not be surprised to land reform in SA not ending with farmland..

[@CasperLabuschagne]

There is not a single South African alive that has stolen the property they presently have a deed for. On the other side of the coin there is not a single person alive that can claim that their property has been stolen, and even where forced removals took place under Apartheid, redress has already been executed by the ANC after 1994. The phrase property is not clearly defined, and while we assume it refers to actual land, it could be equally applicable to any property whether business ownership, any assets or anything else deemed to be property. To expropriate property of the white minority without compensation will be nothing other than the legalised theft of property owned by the white (and possibly the Indian) minority. Furthermore, expropriation has everything to do with a desire for revenge against the white minority and has very little to do with any practical redress of any wrongs of the past. There has been a twofold system in place to redress wrongs of the past. Firstly a land claims court whereby those with historic claims to land can submit an application to the court and in the majority of cases such claimants preferred a cash settlement rather than the actual land. Then there is a government financed policy of settling black farmers on farms previously owned by whites, based on a willing buyer, willing seller principle though due to administrative ineptitude this initiative has plodded along. Presently there are 21,000 of about 35,000 commercial white farms up for sale for prices below their actual market value. Theoretically all those properties can be purchased today for transfer to black owners, but that option is not even being considered - what is really at stake here is revenge against the white minority, no less, no more. The bottom line is that expropriation without compensation is tantamount to theft and the oppression of the white minority. There are few property owners that do not have a mortgage on their property. If that asset is lost through expropriation, the banks will consider those mortgages as unsecured loans and will instigate a legal process to collect the outstanding debt from such individuals. Therefore not only will whites be stripped of their property, but they will lose whatever they have already invested into the property and they will most probably lose everything else that they own as well. Nearly five million whites can literally be destitute on the streets, at the stroke of a pen. That is the real agenda at play here. It is cannot be far-fetched to realise that a civil war will be the outcome of EWC.

[@CasperLabuschagne]

That supposes that the white population has committed past or present sins. I dispute that, my ancestors were deeply religious people that ordered their daily lives strictly by the Bible. If whites in SA are guilty of sins, then every white in the USA, Canada, Latin America, Australia and New Zealand would be equally guilty of identical sins. But I reject that concept of past white sins. One cannot accurately and fairly judge the actions of those in the past by our current standards of human rights and perception of what is legality.

[@hadasayisrael4905]

Casper Labuschagne shame!

[@CasperLabuschagne]

Shame? Should I be ashamed for being white, for not having stolen anything ever in my life, least of all the property I legally own? Ashamed for the factual truths I presented above? Ah, I get it, since I am white I should be laden with a terrible sense of guilt and simply roll over and grovel. Sorry to disappoint you, I have pride in being an Afrikaner. "Fight to the last bullet and die with dignity rather than living a life of constant humiliation", is how I feel about your comment of "shame."

[@hadasayisrael4905]

Casper Labuschagne I'm glad you spoke about the constant humiliation. The same humiliation that is carried through generations. The humiliation that is caused by your ancestors!. You should be ashamed for exactly and turn around pretending like it's nothing. Let me tell you, I don't care if you are afrikaner or safrikaner, your ancestors had no business to be in that continent for starters. Your white breed brothers did the same to the whole continent. You know how hands of innocent people were chopped everyday in Congo by Leopold? Those are our brothers! You should be ashamed to say you own a property legally. There's nothing legally about you there. Your ancestors came and tortured, killed, tormented and loot forever. Your benefited directly as an afrikaner. So yes it's a shame!

[@CasperLabuschagne]

10,000 brave EFF fighters marching and shouting for revenge. A single white man shoots one warning shot into the ground. 10,000 EFF cowards run for their lives. Do go and ask those MK-veterans about how the boere gave them the hiding of their lives before 1990. Go and study the history of the Afrikaner and then think about whether you really want to be in a war with us?

[@wallstreet497]

WHEN YOU GO FOR A LONG TRIP REMEMBER TO RETURN WHERE YOU COME FROM.STAYING WHERE NOBODY WANT YOU WILL CAUSE YOUR OWN HUMULIATION.

[@candycrush5706]

What is going to happen to foreign owned land in South Africa , do you think their governments are going to allow you to steal from them !!!!

[@ape72patch1]

Sihle !! Spot on...socialism is destroying the common man not uplifting him. The first thing the A.N.C should have done when coming in to power was sort the land issue....now its just for populism.

[@VonkMML]

Thanks for the good reporting, its refreshing too see a positive conversation about this and not a fight between extemists from both sides. We will find a way for this too work. If we give up before we start then we are not worth being african, i love it here!!

[@rawmoney7707]

Matthys nothing like positive just go back to cave where your useless ancestors come from before it's too late to escape.. your honeymoon in Africa continent is over never again

[@ElectricGold9]

I personally think that about 54% of the farming land in South Africa should be given to TRAINED black South African farmers. I'm no EFF member, but the truth is it is not fair that 90% of the land belongs to 7% of the population. It needs to be made a little bit more equal, so as to avoid civil unrest.

[@HollyandChanel]

Hillary I agree.

[@candycrush5706]

Hillary The problem I have with that is 1 is it true and if it is who are the land owners it's not SA whites that have 90 % its foreign corporations and investors. I think the percentage is much less if you take the fact we are only 8 % of the population and more than half of us live below the bread line and about 1% are in squatter camps then there is the unemployment amongst us. In my street I am the only white owned house. I never inherited any land my parents were dirt poor and we went to school bare foot because food was more important. I grew up in multiracial district Six during apartheid. I only own a house because I worked for abroad for a while and was able to buy my house cash. I have not beenn able to work in SA for the last 15 years so I work abroad and come home for a couple of months. ANC is lying over land ownership what we do know is over rhe last 24 years the so called landed gentry has left and commercial farms has changed jobs many times as well as ANC members own more than one farm some as many as 5. Can we really believe this government. ???

[@stickyjgaming4728]

i would like to see you do a video showing the history of this country to show me were they stole land becz if u look at history land was not stolen kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4bVnpqLac90Z5o get your history right

[@humbug4478]

Fan Girl no

[@elonplzbuyyoutube]

Nothing should 'go to' anybody. People with legitimate land claims should get title deeds for their land as compensation. If they want tos ell the land, that is their business. If they want to farm, then they should try that. It's not such a big problem and the myth that access to land is the problem instead of the bureaucratic inefficiencies and corruption that has kept the rest of Africa on its knees is just an excuse. Why do we look at Zimbabwe? Why don't we look at Botswana and Mauritius?

[@MegaTroy12]

Lol..another zimbabwe in the making! Dont beg other countries to help!

[@signletters]

If they give the land back to the original inhabitants give it to the The Nama and San (Bushman) African tribes are the original indigenous tribes of Southern Africa. All the other tribes are immigrants. Give the land to the bush men if you want true justice. Stupid racist idea.

[@nireb9538]

Bantus go home

[@hughhughes4488]

South Africa is already in bad shape. If they do this, you can expect that it will drive out foreign investment and accelerate brain drain, leading to a Zimbabwe/Venezuela cliff dive.

[@elninojr1036]

it wont this is completely different no one is going to put sanctions on SA to many resources come from there example being gold and platinum where they lead in trade plus their in brics this is obviously planned out it isn't some brainless revenge plan like in Zimbabwe this is actually a good thing all around 7% of the country shouldn't be owning 72% of the land whats even worse only 10k people own that land from that 7% and most of it is stolen anyways no foreign investors will back out brics is to powerful its like foreign investors backing out of nato not gonna happen

[@hughhughes4488]

Venezuela has far more valuable resources (the largest oil reserves in the world) and the people there are currently starving. That's what happens when stupid people with low-IQs control a country, they run it right into the ground. South Africa will most definitely return to a sub-saharan standard of living when the whites leave. They will eventually all leave anyway, this process of stealing their land will only accelerate it. Again, same thing happened in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe was a medium-income country when it was ruled by whites, but today it is poor, poor, poor, the few whites that remain are mostly senior citizens who run businesses. The whites will leave and be successful somewhere else, the blacks stay and are FAR worse off.

[@thamsanqatheophilus4852]

Definitely

[@gerrald5272]

Boers Arrived here on April 6, 1652. Now it is time for them to go back to Holland.

[@gerrald5272]

Indo- Canadian that will be A Good Idea.

[@VonkMML]

We cant, we are african, my passport says im south african, im not dutch, yes im white, thats not my fault. I grew up after apartheid. Kinda rough too throw poeple out of their motherland for being a different race, some would even call that racist.

[@gerrald5272]

Matthys it not you fault i agree. But your ancestor created this problem. Originally whites are not native to Africa. Africa does not breed White people.

[@carsonc29]

can they take their infrastructure, education, commercial farming, economy, paved roads and everything they;ve built with them?

[@darkworld5026]

And there was nobody there when they arrives. Most of the black tribes of South Africa were migrating tribes. But, don't let the facts get in the way.

[@ahuehuete4703]

South Africa will end up like Zimbabwe.

[@whathappenseveryday2024]

Frank K if that happens it's OK at least the majority people will be happy and they will try to improve it for the next generation. It's not bad at all if that happen.

[@AizenIPlannedIt]

how when they're taking lessons from south korea and china in terms of land reform?

[@ahuehuete4703]

We already know how it's going to end: just like Zimbabwe. The corrupt ANC kleptocracy will guarantee that. Things will not improve in South Africa, it's going to get worse, far worse. You cannot build a country by confiscating property. The confiscated farms will become unproductive and famine will come. People said that Zimbabwe would be a success when Mugabe took over. He ran the productive people out of the country. We all know what happened after that.

[@hadasayisrael4905]

Frank K listen, stop giving lectures about SOUTH Africa. Just stop. Those guys know what they are doing. You don't follow up on their plan and how to carry this out. All what you interested in is to compare 2 completely different situations. JSU!

[@ahuehuete4703]

The fact that you resort to ad hominem attacks and cannot rebut what I say shows that you know I'm right. South Africa is going down in flames. It's leadership is corrupt and incompetent. Cape Town is almost out of tap water and once the Marxists steal the farms there will be famine.

[@garysymons410]

Chidubem s comment below is incorrect, the whites do not own 90% of the land or anything like that number ,also most of the land owned by them is in the southern cape province , and I have travelled from Johannesburg to Cape Town by car hundreds of times and from about 150 kilometres outside of Cape Town to about 400 KM outside of JHB it is semi desert and often nothing will grow there so it is used for other things such as horse breeding , also there were few or no black people ,or anyone else there in 1652 when the whites first arrived because there was little or no rain to support agriculture .Anyone who found themselves thereabouts would have had to be on route to somewhere else in the search for water . It is the area known as the Great Karoo a vast area of semi desert .

[@GusMcCrae]

Hillbrow between heaven and hell...a perspective not often seen in SA or the larger community.

[@dotorsojat]

Another Zimbabwe in the making.

[@olgapatz2567]

"the lawful" owners should decide now if they are able work that land or invite chineese for help, so they not starve to death,

[@elninojr1036]

it wont this is completely different no one is going to put sanctions on SA to many resources come from there example being gold and platinum where they lead in trade plus their in brics this is obviously planned out it isn't some brainless revenge plan like in Zimbabwe this is actually a good thing all around 7% of the country shouldn't be owning 72% of the land whats even worse only 10k people own that land from that 7% and most of it is stolen anyways no foreign investors will back out brics is to powerful its like foreign investors backing out of nato not gonna happen

[@simplex-jcity7606]

Taking back what’s yours is not a crime, South America is %100 right to take back every single piece of the land back and it shouldn’t be a problem, because it was not a problem when Uncle Sam come to Africa in general, do we are not asking you to be our slaves, all we saying is simple,,, #reclaimland✊🏿

[@reallyhappenings5597]

Simplex city. Simpleton city

[@Phyiogambit]

then can we do it here in the UK/EU? take land from blacks and migrants. Most of South Africa was uninhabited when Europeans took over land. This a fascism and white land owns are being used as a scapegoat... this will fail like it has failed everywhere else. but let fools be fools... all i can do is laugh as South Africa falls.

[@ahuehuete4703]

Without property rights and rule of law, no nation can survive. Legalized theft will only lead to ruin. South Africa is the next Zimbabwe.

[@simplex-jcity7606]

Phyiogambit no you are wrong my brother black peoples don’t come to the West by choice, we have been force to, Africa his our home and we have right to take back every single land that’s been stolen from the real owners, .

[@simplex-jcity7606]

Really Happenings ✊🏿

[@sxavarito]

The thieves of the land were told to share half of the stolen land with the dispossessed who are sometimes hired as employees to work on that very same land ... the thieves don't wanna hear anything of that sort and now we are here

[@anthonyanthony8460]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXSve4WMl8aAr7M

[@BillClinton228]

So its ok for Zuma to sell the whole country off to a Indian family, but its not ok for a white guy to fam... pathetic.

[@sxavarito]

What i find interesting is that it's mostly white people who seem to be very concerned about this land issue & even resort to spreading propaganda videos...that alone says alot about the land ownership in SA *Dim Kos* Zuma is old news & totally irrelevant... who do you see talking about Zuma here

[@sxavarito]

How are you helping?

[@chicagogyrl4846]

Mxo Ntombz These families who own these lands did not “steal” them! They BOUGHT them!

[@HollyandChanel]

Expropriation without compensation is more than fair.

[@stickyjgaming4728]

i would like to see you do a video showing the history of this country to show me were they stole land becz if u look at history land was not stolen kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4bVnpqLac90Z5o get your history right

[@humbug4478]

Arlenis B rubbish

[@wolfieinu]

Whether or not it's "fair" is not the question. It is economic suicide. Did you just space out when Sihle was talking?

[@frxnlab]

Yethhh why pay thoth colonitherh Europe drool drool stufff ... take them back....reeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

[@wynandbritz9056]

Arlenis B you seem delusional about this topic. Marxism is going to ruin the country. If you want land, work and buy it.

[@SymphonyBrahms]

Yes, it will.

[@mitchellmhlanga4414]

They should take aaaaaaaaaaalllllll the land.

[@billyb6001]

Goodbye egalitarianism Hello government intervention that causes economic collapse

[@orangindonesia1996]

hey South Africa you wanna know about multiculturalism, I live in Indonesia, in many South East Asian countries like Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand. the Chinese people comprised for only 3 persen of the population, they speak their own language, practice their own religion and customs. and you know what their control for more than 75 persen of South East Asian economy. in Indonesia 9 out of 10 richest men is Chinese descendants. what if suddenly we as indonesian non Chinese people decided to do the same thing like you do to White people, expropriate their land and business, kick them out of your country. Yes you will be a totally failed state, your economy will be controlled by a maniac who knows nothing to run a business, your government will be controlled by dirty and Corrupt polititian. your scientist and higly skilled worker will leave your contry. South Africa you have to learn from Zimbabwe. now you all ready lost your spot as the continent economic powerhouse to Nigeria, those Racism and Corruption will even make you lost your position out of Top 5 economy in Africa in the next 20 years

[@richardhoffman5769]

The Bantu came to SA after the Boers. The Zulu massacred 1.5 million Koi and San. 95% of expropriated farms have failed.

[@mrford215]

Here the thing if expropriation of the land shouldn’t be handled by the government then who when there the only one that can force the situation

[@mrkjsmooth16]

If you bring boers to America the same thing will happen to them here

[@phililemahlalela5000]

the music behind is so annoying

[@skapunk7024]

so I say once more island is Island they should not have no borders in Ireland no matter who you're all Irish that's like I'm in North Korea and South Korea that both Korean people only one in South one is north and they both hate each other and the biggest joke is that both the same people island is the same thing Irish is Irish

[@barryleveson5895]

Some pundits (I hate that word) say South Africa's new president, Cyril Ramaphosa's statements and the ANC's support of the Economic Freedom Fighters's (EFF) resolution in parliament to begin the process of amending the Constitution to allow for expropriation of land without compensation is nuanced - the stuff about achieving increaced agricultural production, without harming food security and the economy. However, the support by the ANC of the resolution has clearly the prospects of next year's parliamentary elections in mind, lest it loose part of its constituency, or even power due to its failure to address the land issue with any efficacy so far. But talking about expropriation without compensation gets people excited.www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2018-03-02-britain-must-intervene-in-sa-land-debate-says-member-of-european-parliament/ I, however, am very calm, and even appreciate the EFF's demagogic leader Julius Malema's (see the Times vid) stated concerns for acting democratically and without bloodshed. (Malema is renowned for his chanting the "struggle" song - Kill the farmer, kill the Boer"). We will see if President Ramaphosa can ride out this tiger. This is the most dangerous type of populism as can be in a country such as South Africa - other than calling for the genocide of whites as Malema almost did. Interestingly the Mail and Guardian newspaper repeats the trope of dignity in its most recent editorial on the land issue - see mg.co.za/article/2018-03-02-00-editorial-restoring-land-is-restoring-dignity. The Constitutional Court has effectively made the "right to dignity" the cornerstone of the Bill of Rights, ruling that it alone, with the exception of the right to life, may not be limited as other rights may be in the context 'befitting an open and democratic society'. So freedom of speech may be limited, allowing for so-called hate speech to be proscribed. Obviously, there must be land reform, but the Constitution provides for expropriation with compensation which is 'just and equitable'. The Mail and Guardian itself this week carries an article of the incompetence and corruption of the ANC in carrying out its very half-hearted and inefficient program of Constitutional expropriation, dating back to the beginning of its rule by paying out on expropriated land to a previous owner well in excess of market price. (Kickbacks in this country are endemic).

[@hadasayisrael4905]

Barry Leveson first of ALL, there's no economic freedom front. And secondly, there's no Jacob Malema please!

[@barryleveson5895]

Corrected, but you seem to 'thirdly' want to take issue with my comment as otherwise you would not appear to be so vehement. What do you mean by "...please!"? If you do take issue, what are your objections?

[@hadasayisrael4905]

Barry Leveson case closed!

[@barryleveson5895]

An exclamation mark again. Why?

[@hadasayisrael4905]

Barry Leveson is that offensive?... I withdraw them sir, unconditionally. Hope this is better. Thanks.

[@CarlosIvanDonet]

No comment

[@skapunk7024]

as a black English man myself I love my father breaks but at the same time and island that should be no borders between Northern Ireland and Ireland leave the borders old open island is Island but at the same time I say get out of the EU we don't need to be the EU they tried to make Europe one just like the Roman Empire did it worked when the Roman Empire did it it won't work today it's a different time

[@W..949]

ska punk there is no such thing as a black English man, you are an African living in England, nothing more.

[@skapunk7024]

FandangoExpress you what

[@skapunk7024]

Archibald Maule Ramsay don't be a moron I'm as English as apple pie my friend was fish and chips I don't know I forgot I never been to Africa don't care to go there