Will Tesla Battery Swapping Crush Nio?

[@dooml0r]

Nio battery swapping will crush themselves. Tesla is structural battery so wth are we even talking about?

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

NIOs can also be charged with a supercharger, and NIO is building that infrastructure in China in partnership with Xpeng.

[@Rightforrightright]

I think battery won't last too long , as I saw e scooters in FB market place many e scooters without battery because it's already damaged , I have the same experience with phone batteries.

[@TomcatJones]

The answer is: No.

[@rcuasito]

A lot of you are missing one major point of why NIO is totally invested in battery swapping and that is a lot of tenants there live in apartments who don't have their own garage to charge their EV. I'm neither a Tesla or NIO owner but if I had the choice, i'd rather go with a car that had two options (battery swapping and supercharger) which is NIO then be stuck with a Tesla after a few years with battery degradation which is worthless if you ask me.

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

How would you swap a battery that is structurally integrated into the chassis?

[@tubevideo7777]

Your iPhone analogy is right on. Nio battery swapping is like going backward in time. I remember able to change battery in my phone for a fresh one. Nobody wants that anymore.

[@grizzlymartin1]

I believe this perspective is stuck in the past of what one "knows" such that it blinds ones perspective to what will - one day soon, be known. Think of it this way. One day the NIOs of the world will simply GIVE you a car. All you "pay for" is the use of the battery whilst they become an energy company and sell you - and countless other users, "energy." This kind of business model happens everywhere today. There's no reason it can't happen with Li and energy and logistics therein.

[@rickdees251]

Elon said "LIDAR is a Fool's Errand" for FSD. Battery swapping is another, "Fool's Errand". Tesla not battery swapping is a plus for Tesla. Nio will/is spending and wasting a whole lot of resources on battery swapping which Tesla is putting into places which will give better returns. Like into more production for cars and batteries. That will allow Tesla to fill the inevitable greater future EV demand. That is why Tesla will crush Nio in particular. Tesla will out perform it's other competition for other reasons depending on the what mistakes they make which will cost them. Just like Nio is on battery swapping. Tesla has a company culture and direction different to all other's and that was it's edge over it's competition in the past as we have seen and that will continue to be so going forward. That is something the legacy manufactures can not change if ever.

[@TillFoerster]

4680 will have even higher charging rates, makes battery swapping super stupid.

[@johnsarab4500]

6 minutes versus even a 30 minute charge time is a big winner. While you wait, I'm down far the road. BUBYE!

[@TillFoerster]

@@johnsarab4500 Charging time will eventually beat swapping time.

[@drincmusic2769]

Swapping time gonna decrease to 40 seconds lol

[@bradhaaf4749]

Think battery swapping is niche for car fleets Or robo taxis. If you had 300 Robo taxis running in a city you could have the batteries charging waiting to be swapped while the Robo taxis are still creating Revenue. Only viable use case I can think of

[@scened9681]

NIO use swapping as best strategy because they only need to raise battery capacity, not need to reduce time of charging! Only choose 1 of 2 effort, this will get success easily. But the way NIO swap battery is poor so far! The best way is using quick disconnect, battery will be inserted from side of the car, slide into battery housing then lock it. When remove simply slide pull battery out. This doesn't need complicated station, only need simple mechanism to swap battery with cheap cost.

[@danielguillaume9928]

I wouldn’t want to swap mine. And on battery day Elon said that the batteries would be integrated with the frame to make it stronger and impossible to swap. So maybe people should rewatch Battery Day and know that swapping will never happen

[@rickdees251]

Your spot on. Integrating the battery into the car's structure saves weight, material and costs vs not having the battery structurally part of the car. Swapping will never happen with Tesla. You buy the car and then lease it's battery? What good is the car you bought w/o a battery? It makes sense only for those who can't understand it's the worse of the two ways to go for all the reasons.

[@duketlam9206]

Yup. Battery swapping is stupid. Storing battery pack in a swapping station is a wast of money. Inventory cost and driver may abuse the pack.

[@sharongrace9302]

Are ye morons,,the only reason people won't buy an ev is because the resale of a second hand battery car is zero,,as opposed to having the option of upgrading your battery as they come online,,ask yourself would you buy a 4year old ev when the battery tech has been outdated for the last 3 years as you say batteries are constantly being upgraded!!!!

[@Teslafan9519]

Don't get me wrong, I love Elon Musk and clearly he's one of the smartest person out there that we are aware of BUT he can also be wrong and mistakes. There are a few reasons why battery swapping will work for NIO: 1) Old cars can swap to a new more efficient battery meaning you don't need to buy the latest model for the best battery. 2) Instead of recharging you can also swap the battery and that's something that will be useful in China. NIO also allows you to rent the battery for a monthly fee so that you can purchase their car for much cheaper. Battery swapping will also be useful when robotaxis is a thing.

[@rickdees251]

@@sharongrace9302 "Are ye morons,,) " Yes! We be the morons. First off, not all cars, EV or gas and models lose value equally. So making a blanket comment as broad as that is guaranteed to be WRONG as that were typed. There are many EV models out there from different manufacturers. How could you think all EVs would resale equally as poorly Across the board? Let's pick an EV selling now. Say the,, "The NEW 2021 Tesla Model 3/MSRP, from $37,490." Let's Google it! Ever think of trying that? "Tesla model 3 resale value". Oooh! Looky here, what this moron found. "According to iSeeCars, EVs depreciate 52 percent on average over three years. The average for all cars over three years is 39 percent. Based on the above information, the Tesla Model 3 can retain its resale value over five times better than ALL OTHER electric cars and about FOUR TIMES BETTER than ALL CARS in general.Jul 24, 2020". Well spank my bottom, coming up with that.

[@tianhao64]

Be able to replace the battery any time means customers won't bother to take good care of them. It's like driving a rental car, you will always fill the cheapest gas. These batteries are always fast charging in the swap station which also hurt the battery life. Nio will be on the hook to take care of these bad batteries down the road.

[@grizzlymartin1]

That's today. Not tomorrow. Change is the only constant. This too will change about "batteries." And change radically. It's inevitable.

[@brickhunter9537]

@@grizzlymartin1 Simply saying that’s in the future is like saying, we won’t need batteries cuz we will all be in flying cars with amazing super tec. 🙄 Nio will face huge prob if battery swap drags down their profits. And if Nio raises price of swap too much ppl will not sign up, which means Nio investment into battery swap was a waste.

[@kirk8985]

Thank you

[@diwang4572]

Just my 2 cents as a NIO owner. I think NIO focuses on battery swap somewhat because the government supports such model vs. charging and consumers can get tax benefit buying a battery-swappable car. I personally prefer charging over swapping because I have a new car and I don't think it is worth it to swap with an older battery to my car. I would think a sweet spot would be a battery swap station along with charging stations together. While Tesla's structural model seemed nice, there are some disadvantages such as having to repair the entire car if there was a structural issue. Also, there is physical limit to how much Lithium battery can be charged. Too much voltage would cause security issue such as electric leaking.

[@hgr3180]

NIO checks the health of their batteries and it's automated when you use their battery swap stations. Shame you didn't mention that.

[@hoffmantnt]

Battery swapping for EVs is a very bad idea.

[@bobbrutvan9278]

There may be a cultural difference in China where a bigger percentage live in apartments rather than single family homes with garages. If Tesla's experience shows they are losing significant sales in China because of swapping, they will pivot and offer it. I think Tesla is confident that structural batteries and lower prices are more important to buyers.

[@peter.g6]

I live in a lame country in eastern Europe and even we already have slow chargers on regular parking spots, connected to the same grid that powers street lamps. Electricity is everywhere, you just need a connector and a machine that knows whom to charge (no pun intended) for it.

[@hariwibowo2792]

tesla with supercharger just need 15 minutes to have reasonable range

[@alejandrodejesusrodriguezq4880]

Bad very bad idea in my opinion To store ks of batterys waiting for be Swapping

[@sowellfan1234]

As batteries getting better and charging time shorter, complex battery swapping would not be necessary.

[@ziggyyo]

Battery swapping made sense seven years ago, when charging took about one hour. Current 800 Volt batteries are charging in 15 to 25 minutes, future batteries will charge in 5 to 10 minutes. The swapping stations will soon be obsolete. Invested money will be lost.

[@skyliner3396]

The only problem is that when you charge that fast you literally destroy your battery life. Maybe new technology will get rid of this problem but for now that is the main problem of superfast charging.

[@DaveBoxBG]

Tesla canceled the swapping because it does not work in the real world. With all the salt and water on the roads the mechanism and bolts for swapping the battery will corrode/get damaged after 1-2 years and the car is toast.

[@johnsarab4500]

Not all areas have snow and salt issues.

[@skatei]

Alright. We get it. Tesla is superior. Nio is inferior.

[@jesusazuela8913]

NIO will be the best EV company globally, hands down 💯🙏

[@roylee3073]

this as a bad use of engineering thought especially if we know that in the future all teslas will have the batteries imbedded in the frame. they're on two completely different future tracks

[@billdavis3957]

You made some good points, but did not.explain why Tesla cancelled his battery swap pilot program in 2013 when there were no Level 3 charging stations Also understand that in China nearly everyone lives in apartments so home chargers cannot be used. If I lived in an apartment I would want a car.with battery swap capability instead of waiting in long lines then hours at Level 1 and 2 charging stations. Also, Tesla's Level 3 stations' charging rate is decreased by the number of cars charging at the same time. And even when only 1 car is present, waiting 1 hour per 100 miles gets old fast. Car.magazines have done articles on long trips that take 25% longer due to slow.charging times. On battery day I was surprised Tesla did not announce their new 4680 battery will have a faster charging time. I am surprised, too, that Tesla has not adopted Maxwell's super capacitor technology which provides instant regeneration storage which can be used for short bursts of acceleration, reducing somewhat the number of heavy batteries being hauled around. Why do all the Tesla KZbin channels never address this subject that was a hot topic 3 years ago? I admire Elon Musk and own 300K of Tesla stock. I have a single family home where I am willing to install a Level 2 charger, but will not buy a Tesla as a first car until the price is equal or less than an ICE car and it can be charged at a Level 3 station at the rate of 15 mins per 100 miles. If Tesla really wants to sell millions of.cars, he needs to improve charging time.

[@TMIOTesla]

Ya I think a lot of the "cons" I listed stem from the learnings from tesla's pilot program. Just because there were no V3 superchargers, doesn't mean they didn't see what was in the pipeline. Today for example, we have no V4 superchargers, but we know that faster charging will come in the future. I think the living in apartments argument is more of an ICE vs EV thing, and has to do more with getting buildings to install chargers. The decision of swap vs charge doesn't seem to relate much to living in an apartment. It's all about the speed and convenience. While the superchargers are slower, I think I outlined clearly why a swapping is prone to bottlenecks, that could them even slower than charging. But that said, swapping could be good for today, but when new technology arrives with faster charging, swapping your battery to a faster battery, defeats the purpose of swapping. And faster charging will make swapping pointless. Also V3 charging has a peak charge rate of over 1000 miles per hour. So they charge about 75 miles in 5 minutes, which is getting to be quite compelling. For supercapacitors, if short bursts of acceleration is advantage we're looking for, then they're not needed since the batteries can deliver enough power to accelerate just fine. The new Model S Plaids can do many bursts in a row too, without supercapacitors as far as we know. So what advantage do they bring?

[@raffiaghiarian6541]

How long is the warranty on a battery? How much is a new battery with labor after the warrant expires. Lots of people are assuming that a battery is going to last long time. If a new and superior battery technology comes out that is 10 times better than my existing Tesla battery, what do I do? buy a new car or a new battery? Electric vehicles are still in its infency and will improve as time goes. I rather have swapping batteries until better batteries are on the market.

[@mdoc3259]

Imagine having to drive 10 miles to get your battery swapped!! What a PIA! The time that is stated in this swapping model assumes that the car is right there. One must add the time back and forth to the swapping station. Also a waste of batteries that could be used for an additional car or storage unit. Not for me.

[@77joeby]

Oh, your fuel pump is at home? Imagine having to drive 10 minutes to fuel your gasser! Oh wait... 🤣

[@Alrukitaf]

Down side of swapping - hard to predict demand, and how many batteries do you keep? You’d have to order one in advance, and they’d inform you when its ready. But better useage instead of a multi-million dollar installation is a portable one just for commercial applications where there are fixed routes, eg buses, trucks, deliver vans.

[@lasanatwyman7553]

I just bought a used 2014 Tesla model S and now after 8 years I just found out that I have to replace the man battery which is $14,000 and right after the 8 year warranty expires these batteries don’t last forever

[@biofueler]

Swapping shoululd be noy by OEM but by independent businesses like filling stations, small manual batteries to exchange like gasoline stations. NIO & Tesla screwed up the concept,

[@205rider8]

Why??

[@205rider8]

Because that’s the way gasoline and diesel are dispensed??

[@biofueler]

@@205rider8 Infrastructure & practices exist to ease the transition if we add battery swap to filling stations. Much harder to make drivers think different. So need fast refueling or no change tro ZEVs from ICE.

[@cashbonanza963]

Tesla fanboys don't know that battery swapping is an additional way of charging up. I'd rather have 2 options than 1. Also, people say that battery swapping costs a lot for manufacturers but what they don't k now is NIOs are still cheaper and better than Teslas.

[@drincmusic2769]

Okay... you can literally swap at multiple cars at the same time of you know what you're doing. It can all be underground, the ev drives up into one of the swapping lanes, get swapped in under a minute if people know how to actually program and not be lazy with it, and bam! 10 cars swapped in under a minute. Don't make me start a company and prove this to you.

[@joekkl]

When I have 600 miles range and charging only take 15-20 mins for my need, why would I swap? Fast charging + long range battery is the right approach.

[@hgr3180]

you have to do a cost comparison.

[@KenLord]

All together kids ... Tesla only started on battery swapping years ago because it gave them a $110 Million tax credit, at a time when they really needed the money. They aren't going to walk away from all the advantages of the structural battery system, to take on the huge financial liability of battery swap stations.

[@MegaWilderness]

Not really an advantage in 5 years as batteries will be well advanced by then. Early adopters will find that they lose a packet on the second hand market

[@faramarzmokri9136]

Battery swap business model will set NIO back at least 5 years behind Tesla . The new incentives from Chinese government for NIO battery swap customer is a desperate attempt to save the costly battery swap business model .

[@andreasklossek9252]

Thought the video works on both directions. At the end, it only shows and force, we all should walk the line of Tesla. No, actual no naming of change network from NIO.... at the end, you can swap a full battery, or simple charge it like Tesla does. So NIO actual just add another option to it. Sad haven´t heard that in the video, right now. Power Map Power Charger-NIO Power Power Charger Power Swap Station-NIO Power Power Swap Station One Click for Power-NIO Power One Click for Power

[@Chandrakanthlakhinana]

You said nio just add an option in charging........but to keep that option it needs 3 times more economical than regular charging....do you think this going to work in future?, How long they can hold that option

[@anlikallarackal9205]

You forgot the main advantage that the cars vlue diesnt go down since uou can always swap for nee battery ewith Battery subscribtion ehereas electric cars value goes down rapidly since new efficient cars come up every year.

[@georgelewis8831]

Tesla doesn’t like battery swapping - they are making better batteries and offer more charger locations.

[@MegaWilderness]

Neither marques batteries will be the same in 5 years. Swapping will ensure replacement without cost.

[@TMIOTesla]

Please support our sponsor by going to brilliant.org/TheMarketIsOpen and sign up for free. The first 200 people that go to the link will get 20% off the annual premium subscription. Do you think Nio will succeed with its Battery Swapping initiative? Or will battery tech, such as solid state batteries or Tesla's 4680 cells provide faster charging times that will make swapping obsolete? Let us know below. Also be sure to check out our in-depth NIO video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5DQhJtmbN5si8U We super appreciate your continued support on patreon.com/themarketisopen Your support means so much to us. Thank you

[@ericlaforge9445]

Liquid cooling is a problem with that.

[@Scholzey]

They have coolant lines that also disconnect.. more failure point is what im thinking.

[@Zachsquatch47]

People need to get over the dream of battery swapping. With tesla moving to a batterypack that also serves as the frame it will never happen with them

[@mrhickman53]

I'm trying to fuss out if battery swapping has any advantage in high-density residential areas where level 2 charging infrastructure is not sufficiently prevalent. Ignoring queueing, the battery swap would permit an apartment dweller to enjoy about the same experience as owning an ICE vehicle. Once queueing is considered, the ability to locate a sufficient number of swapping stations with relative convenience in high-density regions may be difficult. On the surface, streetside or parking lot/garage level 2 charging infrastructure makes better sense to me. Due to the lower currents, level 2 charging can be more efficient and reduces stress on the battery. If a battery swap station is always rapid charging the returned batteries it seems to me that those batteries will degrade much more quickly than those that are only occasionally supercharged while on trips. I have not yet made an effort to research the level of degradation to anticipate. At ten minutes per swap and assuming all batteries are the same, 13 batteries permit a minimum two-hour charge before the battery is potentially returned to service. This may be a low enough charge rate that extensive thermal management is not required. It also implies that a 13-battery charging bay could support two swap bays at 50% average utilization. Higher utilization would require either a larger charging bay or thermal management of the battery for rapid charging, yet another complexity. For Tesla or CCS rapid charging each vehicle brings its own thermal management system. In battery swap this is another item that must be duplicated. In the particular case of Nio, the advertising of an impressive facility that contrasts with the Tesla superchargers and other rapid-charging infrastructure may fully justify any inefficiency in capital utilization in the short term. It is visually obvious that Nio is offering an alternative to other players and likely can attract new buyers to look at them vs. dozens of other manufacturers. Since I understand Nio cars can also rapid charge Nio is somewhat free to emphasize or de-emphasize the battery-swap concept as the novelty wears off and consumers, in general, become more savvy about vehicle charging. I do not miss my Tesla not being able to swap batteries.

[@huyaiden]

@Noguffay sorry you are wrong.. Look at china and india now..

[@peter.g6]

Haven't seen the video yet, but... you obviously cannot swap a structural battery. I had the expression all the models will move towards that design, so what are we talking about?

[@brickhunter9537]

How you charge your battery makes a big difference in longevity of the battery life. If ppl didn’t own the battery, most ppl wouldn’t care how they charge it. Ppl will charge to 100% and down to 10% all the time, which degrades battery life significantly.

[@grizzlymartin1]

Remember, the "Swap" station form-factor is not...does not need be, static. That same piece of real estate has countless...endless possibilities for delivering a product or service that itself morphs continuously over time. Message: we have not begun to witness the explosion of entrepreneurial ship ahead of us. NOT EVEN!!!

[@KenLord]

It must be sufficiently static to be able to service all of Nio's existing fleet.

[@bobbrutvan9278]

Elon explained that the reason Tesla dropped battery swapping on the Model S was because it didn't actually get used much, and the story is supported by the lack of concern about it for the last half dozen years. The vast majority of charging takes place at home in the US - supercharging stations relieve range anxiety for trips beyond the day to day norm.

[@KenLord]

It didn't get used because there was only ever one prototype battery swapping station. And at the time there were hardly any Teslas on the road. They only did it because it was a requirement for getting a $110 Million tax credit, at a time when they really needed the money.

[@MrMCKlebeband]

short answer: no long answer: nooooooo

[@grizzlymartin1]

It's funny. Even though I often discuss the NIO innovation platform, I was NOT myself convinced of it. But something just kept bugging me that I might not be seeing things with enough mental pliability. Oddly, after watching and rewatching this excellent presentation I am actually growing even more suspicious of the possibility that I might be wrong and that NIO may indeed have an amazing path forward. Time will tell. In a year or two it's likely that we will all see the fruits of these seeds taking off like some invasive new species, or conversely whither on the vine as so many suggest. Exciting times. First principles will rule.

[@KenLord]

Shame they weren't able to quantify the cost of having to have an attendant at each station. Or the ongoing maintenance.

[@grizzlymartin1]

@@KenLord Just waaay too static thinking for me. FSD is just around corner, yet you struggle with automated battery swap, etc.????? Sorry, just way too limited thinking for me. Honestly, these arguments sound just like so many people I talked so enthusiastically with about Tesla at its VERY beginning. I think it’s misguided. Time will tell.

[@KenLord]

@@grizzlymartin1 Ironic - you've limited your thinking enough that you can't understand my point.

[@bobmorane4926]

@@KenLord It's negligible compared to the cash cow from monthly subscriptions which pay for swapping station maintenance as well as battery maintenance.

[@MrMCKlebeband]

they won't do that, because this is a concept for big cities where people don't want to much time charging. in those big cities the tesla robo-fleet will run the show for tesla anyway... owning cars will be a thing of the past in cities.

[@MrMCKlebeband]

it's just gonna be an autonomous garage with autonomous cars, autonomously charging in the garage and autonomously seeking a service center when somethings wrong. barely any operating costs... compared to switching batteries, which will surely need a few workers to do/check.

[@airrodgers7277]

Nio battery size are the same between the 70kw and the 100 kw, All nio car can use any Nio battery...

[@Andrewk950]

It sounds like 2 different cars are needed

[@uuprocom-investorshop7711]

Nio is making a huge mistake

[@grizzlymartin1]

Don't be stuck in the past...or even the present. Electrons are malleable...and thus, so are business models.

[@edwardgyu7990]

Nio swapping is over 2 million times now, only time will tell if BaaS will be successful or not, though I do have confidence that it will! I have both Tesla and nio ha-ha

[@johnpinke784]

We don't have enough batteries for one car let alone have (in theory) 2 batteries for each new EV.

[@hgr3180]

Always a solution to every problem.

[@renemaimann-roland1904]

Wow have NIO swopped 500.000 batteries? That sounds a bit off, as they delivered less than 50k cars last year.

[@TMIOTesla]

Yeah that''s total. I think it's even higher now, perhaps closer to 1M. The same car can swap multiple times. Each time they need to refuel.

[@airrodgers7277]

@@TMIOTesla nio swarp is well over 1 million atm..

[@grizzlymartin1]

Again, you are all missing the most monumental development in EV tech: above ground materials mining. Mark these words, NIO will KICK ASS b/c they will COMPLETELY eliminate an entire supply chain dependence...AND...iterate their way to dominance all because the "own" the battery. Again, watch this space.

[@grizzlymartin1]

Over time, very rapid time, Li (et. al.) will require mining from the ground less and less. Instead, it will be "mined" from above ground sources. Simply as a matter of their current behavior and the logistics it FORCES them to adapt and innovate too, means that NIO could (potentially) be waaaaay out in front of others who are not NOW practicing these kinds of logistics business models, and thus benefiting from the learning and adoption curve that is a consequence of such pioneering strategies. I could be waaaay off, but I get the sense that NIO is really gonna benefit here from this "recycling" model. Simply put, repurposing of batteries and their components is without doubt, the future of mobile and stationary electron storage. Competitors will be reliant on outside suppliers. NIO will not!

[@sherrilynnevonch4036]

Upkeep on battery is cheaper but eventually you will have to swap it out

[@chrisw9534]

Tesla's batteries will be able to last longer than the car. You won't have to swap the batteries out until you scrap your car.

[@clamorosomilano7148]

@@chrisw9534 fast charging would do so much harm to the battery life span my friend. Ask samsung about that business model idea and they will tell you how terrible is it. Over time, your battery will degrade faster and hold charge less and less. Fast charging is the friend of the user but the enemie of the Battery itself. You would definitely need to swap it eventually my friend.

[@chrisw9534]

@@clamorosomilano7148 Apparently there isn't much degradation on the 4680 cells. And most people probably won't use fast charging often. Most charging will be done at home or at the office. Don't need fast charging there.

[@famnaff5136]

Well done. Answer offered and received. Swap is fools work

[@Dranomoly]

mark my words

[@biofueler]

Swappable batteries should be size of a 6 pack & be in trunk frrunk boot or bonnet for easy removal manually Dont neef huge swap station

[@bruceha1615]

I hate the debates between the battery swap technology and ordinary battery charging. People! Please remember that Nio's battery swap is an additional option to recharge your car battery. If you were to choose an EV from normal battery charging only EV and another EV with additional battery swap functions, which one would you get? This is just a simple question.

[@greggrant4614]

Besides faster charging batteries, the other technology that will soon make battery swapping obsolete (of negligible value or negative value compared to its cost) will be autonomous, full self-driving, since you will be able to tell your ev to go charge itself and then park itself until you call for it.

[@clamorosomilano7148]

But how is that going to make it obsolete though? Your point does not make any sense! You would be able to recharge or battery swap autonomous cars. So how would that become absolute? Please explain my friend?

[@jameslamm8101]

The author is unfair to nio in some ways. He does not say that nio gives out an app where you reserve the exact time for your swap so there is no waiting in line once you get there, much like the "fast pass" at theme parks. It can be the 7 minutes. Also, battery swapping can be used with solar/wind farms to defeat the "duck" curve problem with these energy sources. Rather than waste energy from solar when it is not needed, hook up a battery to it and charge it very cheaply to be later shipped to a battery swap station. Also, the author leaves out that battery swapping can save in total battery production in that if I can swap my 100 mile range battery for an 900 mile range the two times a year I have to drive to Miami, then I can do with a much lower range battery most of the time and save a tremendous cost.

[@lecirdaluz]

American arrogance at its best: nio vs tesla: will tesla show the Chinese who's the boss. Really Guys…grow up… who cares.

[@grizzlymartin1]

Simply put, repurposing of batteries and their components is without doubt, the future of mobile and stationary electron storage. Competitors will be reliant on outside suppliers. NIO will not

[@KenLord]

Tesla has around 40 or 50 GWh of battery production now. Plus 10 or more going online from the 4680 prototype line. Tesla's Berlin and Austin factory sites are building their own new 4680 battery production lines. And Musk has laid out a plan to ramp up to 200 GWh by the end of next year, and then on up to building battery factories with the same footprint that each produce 1 Terawatt of production per year, with a long term goal of 15 terawatts per year ... in order to supply enough batteries to truly replace fossil fuel power plants with wind and solar. Tell us again about how lucky Nio will be to have those old abused batteries lying around.

[@johnsarab4500]

6 minute swap or a 4 hour charge. While you wait on the charge, I'll be at Disneyland

[@robertmcdonnold3038]

So basically, 13 batteries for each car produced.

[@MartinGalway]

A couple more issues - 1) as charging site density increases, this increases the likelihood you can begin your charging sessions from a low SOC - thus, you will spend less time charging. Your charging wattage will "tend towards" the maximum wattage you can charge at - versus, some lower-down-the-taper wattage. The duration of your charging sessions will shorten, because you'll be doing them at higher wattages. Eventually your charging sessions will rival that of battery-swaps - especially if the battery swaps are SLOW. The Nio swaps are between 6 and 10 minutes? That is SLOW. Tesla did it in 90sec though obviously that was a prototype. Charging built-in batteries will be so fast that it will seriously erode the differentiating factor of battery swaps. At that point people will start to ask "why the f*** am I waiting in a queue and paying all this money? Those built-in battery drivers just pull up to an empty stall, charge for a few minutes and they're on the road." 2) battery swap stations don't know when people are going to show up. Or if they do, they get precious little time to prepare. Their raison-d-etre is to provide a fully-charged battery without you waiting for it to charge up - so if they couldn't provide that, they'd look a bit silly. Thus, they have to maintain all their in-stock batteries at 100%. We all know this is bad for batteries and accelerates their degradation. So when you pull up to a battery swap station, the battery that gets put into your car was kept at 100% CONTINUOUSLY for who-knows-how-long while it waited for the moment you rolled up to get it installed. This doesn't make much difference to drivers, but it hurts the car company (in this case Nio) as they are degrading their battery inventory and they will end up needing to replace them. Versus the "charging a built-in battery" model where you train the owner to charge to a max of 90% unless 100% is absolutely needed - and this promotes long battery life, reducing the number of batteries required for a given time period and a given fleet size.

[@hgr3180]

6-10 minutes is slow? You do realize these battery swap stations are set up at rest stops. You are going to be using the bathroom or getting a quick bite while your car is swapping it's battery.

[@hgr3180]

Also battery swapping is free for customers.

[@hgr3180]

You can immediately enter the queue when your within xyz km of a battery swap station.

[@hgr3180]

Battery degradation is really a non issue for both automakers.

[@hgr3180]

The future is having your smart, electric, self driving car go to a battery swap station. No need for a plug in charger. Don't worry about not having enough batteries. There's always a solution.

[@bobmorane4926]

Is this guy serious ? Is the future battery tech of Nio backward compatible with previous Nios ? Did he ever ask himsekf if his electronic gadgets at home are backward compatible as his home batteries improve and last longer, duh !!!! Also, who's going to pay for the maintenance of the batteries or swapping stations ? I mean isn't that what the monthly manintenance is for . By the way has he ever seem the Tesla battery that needed to be changed for a whopping 20 to 25k ? I guess that's when you really appreciate the worry free battery maintenance of the swapping scheme. Battery swap is a great iea and has too many advantages to ignore. It will become a force to reckon with as cheaper models come out.

[@TMIOTesla]

From the consumer perspective you probably don't want half your car taken apart and then put back together again every time you want to charge up. From business perspective, battery swapping machines are extremely expensive to maintain and will hurt the rest of the business since they require idle batteries. This will look even dumber as charging speeds increase. We already have 800V architecture vehicles charging in ~20mins. Next phase will cut that down even more. Battery swapping quickly becomes a liability.

[@marioxmariox]

Many in China lives in large apartment building where they can't plug in their car at home. Nio chose to put tens of thousands of battery packs in swapping stations instead of selling tens of thousands of cars. Battery swap stations would not work in the US. Nio would be fools to try it in the US.

[@kevinjuan9493]

You seems to have in depth analysis of this topic. I agreed that Nio would be fool to replicate their battery swap strategy outside China. But, as it currently stands, Nio mainly focuses its sales in their homeland and their battery swapping strategy is more about solving the accesibility problem than the matter of speed. It will give them an edge over Tesla at least in China, the largest ev market in the world 👌

[@studymapai]

Bro just burned NIO’s whole business 🤣🤣🤣

[@ronlivaudais6523]

Keep it simple...no moving parts and no potential maintenance personnel to fix inevitable breakdowns!

[@DeeyaGarg]

8 yr ago swaps took 90 seconds, they should be faster now. Tesla already has plans for batteries at the superchargers to time shift drawing from the network during low demand times like night. Charging one battery to charge a 2nd wears out two batteries for a single use. Advancing Technology requires trying multiple routes.

[@michelbruns]

its basically the same with swap able phone batteries, its nice to be able to, but its just not worth it because of the wasted space etc

[@hgr3180]

A car isn't a tiny handheld device. Your comparing apples and pears. Cars are big and need to be parked somewhere to charge. If you don't have a garage, you have to rely on public charging infrastructure.

[@michelbruns]

@@hgr3180 your point is? And what has that to do with my comment?

[@hgr3180]

@@michelbruns look at how flawed your comparison was.

[@michelbruns]

@@hgr3180 the ability to swap batteries take up space, and its not worth it to lose that space Just like with phones

[@hgr3180]

@@michelbruns why do you keep comparing it with phones? They aren't the same. There's a reason why public charging infrastructure is important and it's because you don't want to have a shit show trying to find a place to charge your car. We aren't talking about hand held devices that can be charged anywhere. We are talking about cars.

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

Nice to finally see a thorough analysis of this in video form. Swapping has fallen out of the window of opportunity. There might possibly be some niches for it in long-haul trucking and in ocean shipping, but even there, alternatives are available that may squeeze it out.

[@markbrowning9363]

Are you for real? Tesla is moving to a structural battery that's integrated into the chassis, just how do you expect to swap a structural battery?

[@2nd3rd1st]

Are you even watching the video, he mentions that near the end...

[@grizzlymartin1]

Tesla is but one of (at least) 73 other EV manufacturers today. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" channel needs to do one on Tesla-Think. BTW, I'm a Tesla owner.

[@diwang4572]

By swapping to another Tesla I guess :P

[@sebassanchezc-1379]

RIP NIO😎👌

[@macrumpton]

The charging stations are getting more common and faster every year, and the swapping stations are far more expensive and can only serve 1 kind of car. Tesla would have to redesign all their vehicles and build a huge expensive swap network, so I give this a 1 in 1000 chance in happening.

[@grizzlymartin1]

Wow! Can't wait to watch this. This issue has been bugging me ever since I learned of NIO b/c I think they may really be on to something that allows them to "recycle" Li - and thus innovate on the go - battery tech and form-factor to a degree that positions them YEARS ahead of the competitions ability to catch-up...scale-up. Thx for doing this.

[@hgr3180]

The future is AI so your car is going to be smart enough to go to a swap station. The swap station will be like some futuristic tech that will swap your car's batteries but much more efficiently without the help of a human.

[@hgr3180]

Plug in chargers are so old school. Imagine if our phones could be smart enough to charge themselves.

[@hgr3180]

That's the vision of NIO.

[@Dranomoly]

Great video! I'm confident that Tesla did the math, looked at the pros and cons and realized what you did in this video.

[@danielkennington1089]

Another NIO Hater video overall. All NIO batteries work in all NIO cars. I currently live in Beijing and have witnessed the rise of NIO. Batteries are all swappable, upgradable, chargeable, rentable for longer trips. Their Swapping Stations are a growing success in the dense cities of China. This could easily work in the dense cities of USA, Europe where they are headed next, etc. NIO has top-notch service, vehicles are far superior in quality to Teslas (all you have to do is go for a test ride or even feel the materials) and their technology is advancing rapidly! Their new ET7 Sedan that hopefully begins deliveries early next year is sick!!!!!! We will see how things pan out in the coming years. Go checkout NIO if you haven't yet... www.nio.com/

[@ashlynnseverythingfun6004]

Appears video is using outdated Nio battery swapping station and does not reflex the current 2.0 platform in comparison to super charging.

[@EssenceUS]

You are not informed about Nio enough.

[@clavo3352]

Sorry didn't have time to listen to belabored facts to pad out the talk time. People carry an extra gas can easily. Why not have a 1/4 capacity battery that can be optionally carried in the trunk? Swap or don't swap no need for charging or changing station. Pull up to Walmart and buy or rent a 1/4 battery pack and drop it in the trunk. Where it connects automatically. Off you go. Charge up later when you have the time.

[@toby-xo6rb]

You lost me at your embedded advertising ... you aren't at a large enough subscriber level to warrant this ... build your channel more first, then start spamming everyone with your adverts (at which point I'll unsub, but that's just me).

[@2nd3rd1st]

Hardly "spamming everyone", and you can skip ahead by pressing right arrow key, try it out honey

[@toby-xo6rb]

@@2nd3rd1st Yes, by the definition of the word "spamming", that's exactly what he's doing. And so your suggested workaround, after paying for the content, is to mess around skipping ahead instead of just watching his should-be-ad-free content? I think you're just trolling and trying to get a reaction out of me - so sad. Back to your mum's basement mate, off you go.

[@skirkwood]

What ad, I have KZbin Premium

[@toby-xo6rb]

@@skirkwood I have it too. I'm referring to the forced embedded adverts (Brilliant.org and his own "forget yahoo finance and use my platform instead") that can't be avoided without messing around skipping forward. I (and you) are already paying him for his content via our KZbin paid subscriptions and our comments/likes/subscribes, and yet he still wants MORE money! My point is we've paid directly to avoid these BS adverts, then the content creator circumvents KZbin's income methods and adds his own. And no, the answer isn't to simply not watch his stuff because that doesn't promote good behaviour on his part.

[@205rider8]

Why complain. Just quit watching. He should be able to find his work. Don’t to this person.