Can Phase 4 REDEEM Season Of Discovery? | Season Of Discovery | Classic WoW

It's no secret that Season of Discovery is in a period of downtime at the moment. With phase 4's release date being delayed, dissatisfaction with phase 3 and other WoW related game modes, times have been tough.
Phase 4 is shortly to be on the horizon though, with PTR testing, our classes' full toolkits, traditional Vanilla endgame and more - so will it be enough to win people back over to Season of Discovery?
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[@Goldenpuffs]

SoD turned into Season of Parsing.

[@GojieeTV]

All I read is: I don’t know how to play my character

[@Naeinsengimnida]

@@GojieeTV Let's be real SoD parsing is like parsing on LFR although LFR is still harder... LOL And i'm a Vanilla lover, stop trying to make it harder than it actually is...

[@GojieeTV]

@@Naeinsengimnida Parsing doesn’t make the game any harder. It’s just pressing the correct 4 buttons once a minute…

[@GojieeTV]

@@Naeinsengimnida 80% of the people I’ve ran into while leveling for P4 just melee swing while jerking each other off in party chat cause it’s the most social interaction they get

[@kristalenz2619]

The further blizz goes from retail the more hype people get, but then they can't help themselves and slowly turn back into retail and wonder why everyone leaves.

[@sdwone]

Some may return... Some players are just born Retailers... Whereas others are just born Classic'ers (is that even a word?! 😁) who tend to stick to a specific flavour of the game. It's the floating players, chasing the latest "hype" who stride both and thus skew the results! The last time I played Retail was Legion... And I haven't looked back since! So no... Not everyone leaves because the hype train has left the station. We just have a HUGE variety of different players... Who play the game for different reasons... Which is why I wince when people keep generalising us as "WOW players" because even though we play WOW, we are NOT one homogenous block!

[@Zutang777]

I really enjoyed the fantasy they have given in sod. I really like the throw back weapon you get as a Warrior referencing the BladeMaster from old Warcraft. most people don’t give SoD credit when it deserves it. But focuses on its mistakes as a huge freaking game to live up to.

[@JohnRock14]

No blizzard are just a joke company nowadays that have no idea what theyre doing. So when they get something with some success (sod) they have no idea how to keep it going and always ruin it. They dont have the same guys that made the best game of all time anymore... theyve just for bums with no creativity and main goal is to make money for the slimy company.

[@trevorburton3290]

@@Zutang777I agree with this. They have made a fun game and are in a bad spot of balancing convenience that players have become accustomed to, and also trying to stay true to the long term progression style of classic. It’s not easy but they will probably do better having a PTR to his go around.

[@KC-py5vq]

This is blatantly false. Retail still by far has the higher player base

[@Fushikatz]

i hoped for more things to discover than new class skills (runes) and altered raids, since those are things i care the least for. I wanted actual mysteries, maybe new quest lines or dungeons. Something that makes the way to max level interesting again. Like the sleeping bag quest line.

[@shifterashtongue2684]

Designing a dungeon has 2 very big issues. 1 what makes you think that the devs would add a dungeon just for a phase of a seasonal server of wow after 20 years. It is a really tough decision if you think that it must be original and anything could be criticized for the next 20 years as why did they make THIS specific dungeon and not any other dungeon. Also a dungeon from scratch needs too much development, the maps the mobs the bosses their spells the loot etc, it would burn away lot of focus, i sure agree with the above but i think just making a dungeon to say you made one wouldnt be something as special as some imagine it. If there was something unfinished i would love it to be completed but i just dont see it there. Last to give you an idea personally i was thinking something the can do and use is the emerald dream map in a "waves" dungeon like black moras or violet gold where you stand at a point the environment is walled surrounding and mobs come to you. That would use something existand but doesnt really sound special

[@cecilofs]

@@shifterashtongue2684 Agreed. There is a reason so much of the original intended content didn't make it into vanilla - money. Because why spend time developing those zones etc for existing subs when you could package them into an expansion and sell it to existing subs + attract more people? New quests in the open world/existing dungeons is totally possible though, and we've actually seen quite a lot of that between the sleeping bag and class rune quests.

[@shifterashtongue2684]

@@cecilofs yes and the brd rainbow generator easter egg. The only unused entrance would be the underwater portal in aszhara, nowhere else there is a place where you can fit a dungeon entrance and not violate vanilla. I could also understand that there are 3 locations with sealed doors, gilneas, uldum and timbermaw hold. Timbermaw hold id love to see as a zone but all those 3 could maybe reworked in a dungeon of a vanilla old version of those places, but again all those are risky, maybe they make vanilla look like circus and not vanilla anymore, cant make mistakes if you dont take actions, the decisions those people take today will be talked about the next 20 years

[@cecilofs]

@@shifterashtongue2684 Those are good points. In addition I would say its unlikely the team has the resources to create entirely new zones and assets. Using existing zones like Kara Crypts and filling it with existing models might be possible.

[@Chillzn-yt]

I kinda chuckled a bit when you said "new" abilities. The only new things I saw was the healing mage, tank rogue, tank sham, and tank lock. When sod first started and I watched all the creaters asking for abilities we already had. How about we ask for new content? The community killed it when they can't look passed their nostalgia. Everyone quit because it not really new. Sod can be boiled down to whos main ability is a rune and how often can you press it. The more you can press it, the higher the dps. They don't cost any resources and hit way to hard.

[@erubeydarkness]

I wouldn't come back as they killed my server, the community and the people is what made sod fun for me Also SOD isn't what I expected, I wanted some unused content rebuilt, some new zones, dungeons and characters, runes were fun at the beginning as they were really class changers allowing some classes to shine, latest runes were just revamps of spells from other expansions

[@vladimir4526]

No, because these devs have Retail mindset, they focus too much on endgame and that doesn't work for Classic. Leveling is just a chore and we should get through it asap, with xp buffs, incursions and whatever. Because the endgame is where the game starts.. Just like Retail. Meanwhile the fun part of P1 was leveling and discovering stuff, it felt like Classic+... and then, P1 died when everyone started to raidlog and playing the "endgame".

[@rand_kk]

Nah, pretty sure that is just how community works. Everyone was into endgame from day one. Even the videos of wille himself on how good the class is, was always focused on how it is good at endgame.

[@scuttlebum]

The only reason leveling in P1 was enjoyable is because it's a very quick experience. Leveling in the same game year after year is trash for anyone except era and hardcore lovers

[@OWnIshiiTrolling]

"The game starts at level 60" is something people have said since 2004.

[@OWnIshiiTrolling]

@samgriess438 "Everyone has to like what I like, and play the game as I want them to. If you do not conform, GET LOST" You're an actual clown.

[@scuttlebum]

@samgriess438 SoD isn't just an RPG; it's an experiment with an RPG as the foundation. We've leveled enough in this same RPG, move on.

[@Spotnick2]

Changing the raid format in season 3 was a catastrophe, keeping consistancy through the whole thing would have been important. Every raid is on pause, every character I had is level 50 due to incursions, there is absolutely nothing to do right now, and will people come back from their break, not so sure..there has to be spectacular discoveries and new stuff at 60 for that.. I'm zero interested in doing the old classic raids as they were once again just for different loot. I hope Blizzard will note how succesful phase 1 was in their next seasonal effort and keep the leveling process as long as 1 to 25 was.

[@Zutang777]

Bruh it’s a high chance they are going to buff raids and obviously add BRAND new raids with new class gear. The game is only just starting when it comes to its peak potential.

[@H41030v3rki110ny0u]

@@Zutang777 sure... but most of the playerbase has left, and a majority of those players that left are unlikely to return.. they botched it way too early... casuals won't come back now.

[@cecilofs]

@@Zutang777 Extremely unlikely we'll see brand new raids. At best it would be something like Kara Crypts using existing assets and the existing zone. No way they will create new environments, models, etc. When I hear about the extra surprise features between raid tiers I think a new faction using existing NPCs that give out catch-up gear like Incursions, and possibly new crafted sets for each profession. Or perhaps just adding new rewards to existing vendors like Cenarion Circle.

[@-.-Monster]

Phase 1 was successful because 1-25 took no effort and the early game zones are so engaging. Phase 2 was succesful because of pvp. Phase 3 is when blizzard showed they have nothing. 1-25 has always been fun and engaging in classic. otherwise the game wouldn't be popular and never would have seen 20 years. PvP is popular in every game. Default characteristics of vanilla are what made phase 1 and 2 succesful, blizzard didn't have to "do" anything. Phase 3 really opened everyone in my guild at least's eyes. They have no plan. They're just throwing tacks at a wall and hoping 1 sticks.

[@OWnIshiiTrolling]

I just hope they heavily rework the old raids. Going from fights like thermaplugg and jammal'an (at least as a healer that one is nice) to absolute bore fests like old vanilla raid bosses would be horrible. If we get tank&spank with no mechanics that matter, and an ungodly amount of boring trash, then p4 raiding will be the worst thing to happen to wow since Sir Bobby. A lot of people had a little cry when they couldn't clear ST within 30 minutes of being level 50, and I hope blizzard doesn't overcorrect like they did there.

[@zerodas3293]

Blizzard never guessed that SoD would get that amount of Hype

[@lyon666]

What if they learned to fucking guess sometime soon..

[@ManzugsYT]

Sod hype

[@Joshb142]

Nah, they did. You don't become a multi dollar company without some kind of insight team... or like @lyon666 said, they could learn to fucking guess

[@zerodas3293]

@@Joshb142 they kinda did with people screaming for a Classic plus but they never expected that it would blow up like that. You can see that on the amount of server they had for SoD

[@sdwone]

I'm just GLAD that WOW is Alive and Well!!! I remember saying to myself YEARS ago... When the chasm between Retail players and Classic players was growing... Particularly during the Nostalrius debacle... That WOW *NEEDED* to diversify itself!!! Because put simply... No two WOW players were the same anymore!!! Some liked a Slow... Challenging... Methodical grind... On par with the old table top RPGs... Whereas others wanted a more "arcade" style of fast, quick and easy gameplay... And in between all that, some preferred collecting stuff and achievements... While others liked to explore new areas in the game... I mean the list just goes on and on and on!!! So yes... I'm just glad following that infamous "You think you do but you don't" remark by Blizzard, that they came around, and have now given us multiple ways to enjoy this much beloved franchise! Right now, I'm fighting the urge to jump back into WOW (I'm a Hardcore addict!!!!)... Because I have more important Real Life commitments to do first! But considering that I've been playing since 2004/5... WOW is VERY much alive and relevant! Despite some aspects of it being a VERY old game! Long Live World of Warcraft!!! In ALL it forms! 😁

[@fritzschnitzmueller3768]

What is there more to say! What a great time to be a wow gamer currently. I play SoD and cata and there is so much to do

[@MasterOChaos1]

This screams AI.

[@blondiwithstyle]

Input on a few things that are talked about in the video. - The Wild Offering question: this could have easily been sorted by just giving every single boss wild offering in their loot table and to disable raid groups in dungeons (sure, players would min-max which dungeon is best, but it would still give incentive to play every dungeon at max lvl) - The Tank question: I think it is partially that most tank specs are horrible with AoE threat in classic, even in Seasons of Discovery. A warrior tank that uses a Thunder Clap rune that buffs the damage by 100%, still deals horrible AoE and is capped to 4 targets. Compare this to protection paladin or enhancement shaman once they got their AoE lightning shield rune, much easier to tank with these two. - The Raid Size question: Most people that play WoW nowadays are older and do not have access to 20 or 40 friends. A lot of my friends stopped playing because they "only wanted to chill play with friends" (which they could do in 10 man). In 20 or 40 man raids it is usually very silent on Discord to focus on strategy/raid leader talking and thus not very sociable from my experience. In Cata they got 10 and 25 man raids so that both players can play the way they like and in retail the bosses scale with amount of players = form your raid however you like. - The Runes question: there is no "discovery" and there is no "fun" in running across Azeroth for 2 hours to get a rune that is must have for PvE content (Dark Riders rune quest e.g.) - The Incursions question: A lot of people play classic for the leveling aspect, or at least find it the most fun. Incursions felt like a retail mechanic were you skipped "classic content" in order to rush and maximize profit. - The World Buffs question: I refuse to believe that even 10% of the player base enjoys to idle in a city to wait for a buff, or to travel the world/dungeons to try and get as many buffs as possible. To me, it just feels as if SoD is a playground for the developers to test things on the cost of the consumer, while not really caring about the outcome (such as the huge delay of p4 and lack of content in p3). They kind of killed Ashenvale pvp too by making revered to exalted reputation purely based on daily quests, instead of just lowering the amount of reputation you get from each boss/mob you kill during the event if you are revered. Super easy solution, still it was not implemented.

[@josipmarasovic2436]

man i dont know what servers u been playing or with what kinda of people but 40 man is best shit. i had so much fun becuase of people in guild. we serious for boss fight but rest of it is just pure bullshit and fun. it called RAID not group

[@playedout8945]

20man killed SOD, 10man was popping off, then ST garbage came out

[@Koby5649]

100% I built my guild with a core set of 10-14 people (and more, but mainly these 10-14). P3 came out and the entire guild died because merges rarely ever work well. On top of that, a personal issue of mine- one of the most fun things is getting your main character in BiS armor. I would almost get him fully BiS and then a new phase would immediately drop. It would always feel...like I wasted my time. I'm not sure how to fix that, but it was an issue to me.

[@cococock2418]

. Level 60 should have been 20 man raids, they just shouldn’t have done it at 50. Now from what I hear it’s still up in the air if they’re doing 40 mans at 60? Easiest way to make sure this game does is to do 40 mans. 20 mans absolutely did not kill sod. The extension of the most boring phase in the game did, plus cataclysm release. The gear upgrades in ST outside of 3 set tier were almost identical to Gnomer bis. It felt completely pointless.

[@Orgrimmar21]

Incursions were the big problem. That shit killed all aspects of the game: Inmersion, Wpvp, professions, economy.

[@shifterashtongue2684]

​​@@cococock2418man in vanilla brd arena chest and aq40 first boss chest are almost completely identical, from preraid to raid 3, vanilla was always like this. The upgrades were minor and mostly your playstyle worldbuffs and consumables did the damage, gear is to look ugly and maybe trade stamina for more str or hit for crit etc. also by collecting ALL the items there is a visible difference in your dps and health pool. Also think of onslaught girdle and the one from naxx, (first raid and last raid the are the only belts for warriors and they are not very different) Phase 3 had to be longer because there are endless things to be done. They have to rework all runes in addition to the new runes and the "endgame" runes when currently character rotations and runes feel complete in a way already. There are almost all dungeons and drops to be reworked, a whole 40 man raid mc with most loots reworked and also made more easy and accessible (this needs endless work on 1. Vers). Also they have to add endless new stuff and new systems

[@shifterashtongue2684]

20 man was the smallest raid size of vanilla, how didnt vanilla die in 20 years

[@midnightblue1874]

TBC Classic Classic when?

[@RichSmithson]

The one thing that would bring me back to WOW.

[@sgtbilko2950]

TBC Classic with raid wide buffs pls

[@oliverandersson1991]

Yes. Please. WITHOUT LEVEL BOOSTS AND TOKENS #NoChangesTBCera

[@joncarter3761]

Never, I'm sorry to say but tbc wasn't nearly as popular as vanilla in both official classic servers or private servers. If it was popular enough they would have made tbc era servers like they did at the end of vanilla, same with wrath era servers.

[@qualia.768]

brooooo TBC is bis

[@vanselli5716]

Blizzard has to open tbc and wrath of the lichking era server

[@Fazquel]

For me SoD started off great, but as it went on into later phases, the idea of coming back for another level cap and raid just didn't sound that fun. The discovery end of the game mode went out the window and it just turned into a predictable mode where you come back and level until the game stops you again, then grind a raid or pvp. Not for me, I'll stick with Classic or Retail. This just didn't hit how I hoped it would.

[@cococock2418]

Classic (excluding cata) and retail are terrible.

[@KC-py5vq]

​@@cococock2418classic sucks ass, retail is where it's at

[@xMorbidArtx]

Sod made me realize im just not with the whole hamster wheel gearing. It was tough enough finding groups and gearing my rogue in p2 only for p3 to come out way too soon after. Just moved way too quick, and for that reason, im out.

[@radagonsoreseal3457]

@@KC-py5vqRetail is dreadful and has been since Legion.

[@Acacontrols]

Everyone says this depending on when they started playing. For me starting out in CATA and really enjoying the game through the end of MOP, more than I have since, i can tell you one thing. Going back to CATA now i realised how much retail has improved over the years. It really just was nostalgia after all.@@radagonsoreseal3457

[@TheUhmmmmmmmm]

Comments are salty about this one. People just can't accept when there is a screw up like Incursions. Honestly if they took the L and got rid of them asap, I still would have faith in Ph4. Gl though :S.

[@gszell91]

the failure of P3 is just a mix of bad timing on cata release and people being whiny as always. incursions are a bad thing, but i feel like this is the only bad thing, the rest of the issues just come down to blizz waiting with class tuning for example. but then again: blizz said they will do massive class tuning and changes in P4 when at max lvl and all runes unlocked. Why do people not understand? they come to whine here, but it's just a waiting game. the only thing worse is classic wowhead page when they release the weekly dps tier list: no matter what happens they complain. hunter strong? complain. hunter weak? complain. warrior strong/weak? complain. priest strong/weak? complain. always just complaining. they said at the start that it was kind of experimental. if they don't like it why don't they just f off to the p servers, playing the same 20+ year old content on repeat wipe after wipe...

[@TheUhmmmmmmmm]

@@gszell91 While I agree with the balance changes I could very much careless about them. I care more about how the economy is going to look come later phases. Def with the extended ph3... Gl with consumes. Also welcome to customer service/live service. In which customers will come with their issues. Would recommend another job if it's to much for people to handle. And the shills, it's funny how they don't see it just makes the game look worse when an army needs to come shields up.

[@TheUhmmmmmmmm]

@@gszell91 I also wanted to add. I don't get why they thought it was a good idea in the first place to give so much gold/exp/gear from Incursions. We just went through Classic re-release and they must of seen the drop off come AQ into Naxx.... Why was this? The cost/time consumption casuals had to do to keep up to raiding.... So they make the economy worse instead of actually moderating the servers. 10/10.

[@gszell91]

@@TheUhmmmmmmmm the argument i heard from someone about why such inflation is they say it was to combat botting. 1. not allow new accounts for 30 days to use AH and the likes 2. inflate the economy, so what bots earned until now is less valuable 3. they ramped up their response to bots, banning more (yes, sometimes innocents get caught when they shouldn't) so if you look at it this way, this could be one explanation as to why or they were just lazy, or both. still P4 is different: you really shouldn't do incursions all the way to 60. maximum 55, you go to BRD, do MC attune, ony attune, try to get preBIS, do LBRS, UBRS and all of that. might even argue to leave incursion at 54. and i really don't see what is the issue with consumables. I run all consumes each raid, luckily we don't wipe, but really: all consumes i can get, i use. never had any concerns with gold to afford them.

[@TheUhmmmmmmmm]

@@gszell91 Next phase doesn't fix months of bots farming the exact same thing as players(for hours and hours more). This whole "fighting bots with inflation" is pure BS and they are just pure lazy. Maybe if they didn't let the bots go so long in stockades fly hacking they wouldn't of "needed to fight inflation" . To the consumes, just wait till you need to dabble into greater shadow/nature/frost pots my man. Sappers/nades/firewater/jujus as well. Oh and blasted lands buff. Maybe even a little Rend buff, this will cost you gold if you are Ali :) or you need an alt/friend. I know exactly how hard its going to be to keep up to it. I did keep up to filth and had to play un-healthy amounts of hours to do so. Can't say I've played to check on the 30 day thing but I'm sure they have thousands of accounts dormant at this point just waiting for timers to tick. It's like they have given me faith in their ability to deal with the bots over the years or something... I mean, its 2024 and still got them floaty bois.

[@foamingclean596]

Honestly the community is what killed SOD for me. The greed was just beyond the time I had available to spend.

[@timhenrich5698]

The thought of doing the 7 riders or wild offerings again on an alt just kept me off the game.

[@brel_]

true, spending an entire hour on the game is insane /s

[@raze667]

I just... didn't do them. I'm still on my main, being MT for a weekly ST raid and having success with it.

[@raze667]

@samgriess438 This does honestly strike me as funny. As a child in the early 90s, I did actually get participation trophies for flag football. But I don't really know what you meant by "generational filth".

[@Mahkran]

7 riders is annoying coz everyone stopped doing them on alts

[@sgtBONGwater]

Not planning on coming back, sod p4 is competing with shadow of the Erd Tree now. It's too late. My biggest issue was shaman killing PVP from p2 to now. It was like if horde had death knights and ally had nothing in wotlk.

[@dancemattdanceify]

but pvp in all MMOs is absolute trash, weird thing to quit over

[@Petemossfunguy]

@@dancemattdanceifyright? Also I guess this dude didn’t play with paladins. In stv I’ve ran 5 ret and got 3.5k coins. Just absolutely smashing z

[@sgtBONGwater]

@@dancemattdanceify weird how pvp servers are more popular tho. When pvp is this bad, for those servers it ruins the entire game.

[@slamindorf5478]

@@sgtBONGwater never experienced as much wpvp griefing as in SoD, mega servers where they dont balance layers between factions just means you get camped wherever you go half the time

[@Imthisdude]

​@@dancemattdanceify Sure PvP is never perfect in an Mmo, but sod might be the worst there ever was.

[@justin-rr2sw]

Releveling an alt right now is pretty fun. With the 150% xp boost it feels like less of a grind.

[@anthonytgameaddict]

There are just to many versions of wow. The player base isnt as big as people think it is and the hardcore 40+ hour a week player base is even smaller. Blizzard has fragmented their player base to much. Combine that with the increased raid roster requirements people just can't coordinate near as easily.

[@Harrison_Smith_HOF_Truther]

SOD got fucked by Cata, pretty clear to see. The classic team should have just focused on SOD or Cata. Better yet, wait til after Cata is finishing to even announce it. That would have had people flooding back to vanilla and the dev team committed to it.

[@ryanmullen483]

I mean wotlk got fucked by SoD so i guess things came full circle there? All in all its pretty clear P3 was a complete miss and theres clear reasons for that but you also cant expect one part of the game to be completely unaffected by an expansion launch in another version now matter how good it is. WoW is always the most fun when new fresh content is out and everyone is going crazy trying to experience it all. What they really need is to accept these two games need separate teams to handle them. Clearly both SoD and Cata suffered from being understaffed. The same will happen with MoP classic and whatever SoD's successor ends up being if they dont expand or create a totally new team for one

[@randomrandom7208]

It's fucked by design, right now it's a 1 hour raid and nothing else, there's just nothing to do. Yes, you can put in a ton of work to level up your alt and get all the runes again, but the endgame will be same blasting through ST and waiting for reset.

[@zepho100]

They did it deliberately because cata has microtransactions.

[@PregnantOrc]

And Cata was fucked by SoD. Remember the beta and pre-patch state of Cata if in doubt. It was not just a mutual fucking though. It was a massive 3+ way or Cata, SoD s3, Live s4, TWW Alpha, Plunderstorm and early stage MoP Remix development. T'was a gangbang of so many ways and projects

[@Zutang777]

no one jumped from SoD to cata. you’re delusional. Phase 3 was basically finished quickly and it was a lot of fun. Some people might be messing around with cata until phase 4 comes out. The BIGGEST phase yet.

[@mattydemisestreams]

I think one of the more unspoken aspects of SoD’s drop off is people realising that the servers aren’t permanent. I was speaking to a few mid level characters across a couple of different realms and none of them realised that the realms were only temporary. After telling them this I haven’t seen them back on those characters. Most people don’t like the idea of putting in hundreds of hours of hard work only to find out that their progress has a time limit.

[@Zeph914]

They are going to either leave up a few servers or offer transfer to classic era servers without all your SOD stuff.

[@mattydemisestreams]

@@Zeph914 Leaving up a few servers would be great and I hope that’s what happens. With Blizzard’s spotty track record I’ll believe it when I see it though. Normies don’t wanna transfer toons though, especially if that comes at a cost of losing SoD gear and/or $$$.

[@Takagi_san]

What are you talking about... Nothing will be lost... There will be more content and burning crusade etc

[@cecilofs]

@@Takagi_san There is no point and no chance they will do TBC SOD. At the end of SOD they will likely shut down the servers. What happens to the characters is unknown, but best case scenario as said above would be allowing transfers to classic era while losing any SOD specific gear/runes/etc.

[@zerodas3293]

@@Takagi_san god I hope not but Runes with TBC Talent trees sounds intriguing. But I fear the Spriest already now think about them with their redesigned talent trees 🥶

[@greentea7180]

For me personally I'm still waiting for 2h enhance to be competitive in dps. I quit P2 when it was clear (to me) that Blizzard didn't actually give a hoot about it, it was too frustrating seeing all these whackadoodle classes crush the meters, like ffs blizz just toss 2h enhance a bone, is it really too difficult to just tweak some numbers? Sheesh. SoD felt more like classic wow with a retail wow twist, which isn't a bad thing but it's not what I was looking for. Doesn't help that the WoW community has hit insane levels of sweaty, I really cannot stand raid logs and the parsing mentality, and while I know I could look for a casual guild to avoid that stuff it's just a mildly daunting prospect. Going into SoD I was hoping for vanilla wow PLUS, not vanilla wow gone wild. Been keeping an eye on SoD though, the potential is there to bring me back, but idk if Blizz will course correct to tap into it. I hope a future Season of classic gives us a vanilla experience with the bumps smoothed out, I think that's truly what a lot of people want, to be able to raid as disc, as a boomkin, or as an elemental shaman, you know to live out a class fantasy without the core feeling of vanilla WoW being obliterated.

[@josipmarasovic2436]

maybe play game for fun of it, not numbers in addons

[@reyflp]

phase 1 was so good... they made it retail minus after that

[@DubhghlasMacDubhghlas]

Phase 4 will bring some people back because there is something new to explore. I don't think it will bring back those who really wanted SOD to be classic plus. And the no PTR/public Beta was good to keep things hidden but bad when it came to things being buggy or things being out of control.

[@SenipLuff]

The removal of 10man just killed it for us, we were a small little group of 12-13 people just having fun doing 10man raids and chilling, and then suddenly with the change to 20man we had to pug every evening and it removed a lot of the chill vibes. We don't wanna recruit to be a 20man raid, we're just a friend group so after doing Sunken Temple twice that was kinda just it for us, don't think I'll be checking out p4.

[@steeben009]

@15:00 when can we finally change the shapes (body shapes) of our character? sizes and shapes? Would be rly cool feature. Also we need transmog in the game imo. Also new features like brawl (in the tram area between SW and IF would be a nice upgrade in SOD). These 3 cool features would be really interesting for me.

[@josipmarasovic2436]

never becuase that is not important at all. whats the point of it who the fuck cares about how my char looks u are there to kill dragons and kill people. this aint LOL so we need skins

[@MaximumAxiom]

Have no PTR is great, it makes launch feel better because no one is prepared. Its fine for P4 since P4 is mostly known content I assume

[@Dadge42]

They let the other versions of the game breathe so long that SoD drowned. Bizarre management of resources.

[@saschaaah]

U know we (wotlk/cata players) raided icc for 32 weeks and some took a break some did prep for prepatch, we didnt have much to do either. I feel like the community in sod wants so many different things that blizzard cant win. Its a wrap, work on cata and mop. These seasonal servers were nothing but a mess with no winners, som and sod

[@AbandonedMonolith]

They are bridging the vanilla experience too close to retail.

[@elxjasonx]

The nail was the 20 man raid

[@YumYumturtle-ck3uw]

Also Sunken temple is not pug friendly and stressful with world buffs.

[@zerodas3293]

@@YumYumturtle-ck3uw quick solution for that to make it super Pug friendly. You don't loose your World buffs and consums on death like Flasks and no one cares about a wipe, the biggest reason people are do fixated on Parses is the Punishment if you take a grey parser with you and he fucks up a mechanic, don't get me wrong we all can take a few scrubs with us and carry them but you don't want to get punished for another person's mistake

[@josipmarasovic2436]

how? thats what raid should be 20+ people its not a raid if it 10 people

[@elxjasonx]

@@josipmarasovic2436 the amount of ppl that just droped SoD on sunken temple says that 10 is the way

[@FAMILYFRIENDLYBRAZILIAN]

Like, did you honestly think it was going to be 10 man all the way through? People these days tend to juat give up for any small reason 😂

[@Inoggunous]

Not coming back until Sod 2/Classic+, fuck this)

[@coryreisingerref5017]

P1 was great but honestly they’ve killed it off themselves. Too many people have quit for good and p4 probably won’t bring many people back.

[@bangla996]

Isnt it slow now because of cata classic and panda remix?

[@ncwordman]

We don't take kindly to panda bears 'round chere!

[@SH-gf6sh]

Cata is only doing well because people stopped playing SoD, and I doubt many people are still playing panda remix, since unlike SoD, they turned off a lot of people from the start by fucking up a bunch of things right away.

[@MrJonboy]

@@SH-gf6sh Kind of a strange way of saying that, "Cata is only doing well because people stopped playing SoD", well yeah but maybe because they actually just think cata is the better version.

[@SH-gf6sh]

@@MrJonboy Or... maybe it's because there's fuck all left to do in SoD, so people move on to play new content drops.

[@sirpieman300]

SoD has been going about how i expected, alright with some ups and down. I have always more seen it as a testing bed for what does and doesn't work for ( fingers crossed) a dedicated classic + server

[@Przyjemnosczgry]

SoD was not thought through enough

[@Zutang777]

It was definitely thought through a shit tone. It’s just a huge ass game bother. Stop being to jaded for perfection.

[@jackharrison1175]

Those 3 words next to each other are a trip

[@CrimsonCrusader69]

I would like to see a shift towards more solo content for our journey to 60, there's going to be the max level dungeons and the raids, adding more group related content is only going to dilute healers and tanks further. Add some nice lengthy quests that provide larger than usual experience with a rune at the end that doesn't require a group, but instead utilizes your toolkit, people who remember the Rhok'dalar quest will know what I mean.

[@simoncunningham3740]

Personally still really enjoying SOD, but I suppose im of that age where I dont need a fresh new thing every 5 minutes, probably comes from being married...

[@God__Emperor_]

That's not why so many have quite

[@heroofhyrule9778]

@@God__Emperor_ it is. blaming incursions or 20 man raid is an ego thing, those things didnt hurt you, just easier to say that than admit you dont know alot about vanilla and werent prepared for the grind it is, theres so much to do its comical, thankfully most of it can be done solo atm...

[@vaels5682]

Incursions and insane raid prep (lvl 50 consumes) and poor raid loot rewards killed it

[@Trance2400]

Phase 1 was lightning in a bottle, Phase 2 and 3 gradually dissipated that lightning like a fart in the wind. Why did the Devs think that Season of Dads needed more difficult/frustrating content? The vocal minority on Reddit/forums that complained about face-rolling BFD even on fresh alts, like that was a bad thing, you won and the game is now dead.

[@rossmiller9740]

My problem with a PTR is that, like cataclysm - there was also a beta / PTR - and NONE of the issues that we reported got fixed. Cata launched a complete mess.

[@PollyCot]

Wille, it's really not hard to get a 40 man raid going. People have been doing it for years.

[@GodOfWar187]

Unfortunately, I have a feeling they're gonna try to drop it around the time the new FFXIV expansion releases, and as someone who plays both, there's just no way I'm going to choose a phase release over an actual expansion. Also my guild kind of died around 6 weeks into Phase 3 and it's hard to say if enough of them are going to come back for Phase 4. So if they end up not being able to raid together, then that could end up being the final nail in the coffin for my guild.

[@cruros9084]

The worst part about SoD is the parse meta and losing guildmates as people finally get tired of wow.

[@SSquirrel1976]

Got 2 characters to 50, even tho incursions were extremely uninteresting. I tried them early on and noped out and finally did the daily quest on both my 50s to hit friendly for the gear and rune. My server was one of the 2 US ones they decided to kill off and my guild didn't survive the transition to a new server. Some folks joined the guild we had been allied w/on the old server, but a lot of folks joined other guilds or just quit. Then announcing Season 3 was being extended at the same time that MoP was happening, I've barely been back in SoD. My gf started playing WoW last February for the first time and I was coming back after 10 years away. She had zero interest in basically learning a whole new version of the game so I never got her into SoD, but she has been loving MoP Remix. I hope for better things from season 4, but given their choices in Season 2 and 3, I don't have the highest of hopes.

[@SugarBlaster]

my guild played together from classic launch through our HLK kill in wrath. a few of us were amped for discovery. we had a blast in phases 1 and 2. as soon as the announcement that phase 3 was gonna be 20 players we decided that we didn't have the time or desire to keep going. at a certain point a game catering to a niche of a niche is gonna become too untenable for that first niche to want to keep going.

[@portalrunner5580]

SoD died for me the day I went to Arathi Highlands to level on my main in P2 and there were a grand total of 3 other players in my faction questing. Every zone was so incredibly dead due to the SM grinding. Now its just the same with incursions... P1 was awesome because there was no other option but to level in the OpenWorld and it forced interaction with the environment and with the player base. I honestly think SoD would have been saved if they put a smaller lockout for instances like they did for hardcore. Force people into the questing for questing sake. Instead we got quests for mandatory runes (sleeping bags) that take you all over the world and then incursions that are copy/paste and too easy to level.

[@brandondavidson4085]

I think the problem is a mix of Blizzard and the player base. "Given an opportunity, players will always optimize the fun out of a game", after all. It just got so tiring feeling like you're left behind by the majority of the player base in terms of gear and runes, and the unnecessary forced server transfers did not help. Me and my guild have returned to Bloodsail Buccaneers where it all started in 2019, and there we will stay.

[@michaelmoran2125]

Willie you do EU well over the pond for sure. Much love from the USA

[@Tengu2k10]

Yup, 20 man raid and weekly lockout. And i ll add up world buff meta for me, i hate this bs.

[@ctg4818]

Nyctermoon is what season of discovery wishes it was

[@Abrexfroman]

SOD had some great aspects, primarily the new class concepts. But the devs just don't have what it takes to steer clear of the typical 'retail mindset'. There is no avoiding it, they just cannot do it.

[@cococock2418]

Clowns like you literally call **anything** that isn’t literally no changes vanilla “retail changes”. Your opinion and those like you should be ignored.

[@BestOpinionHaver]

i loved SOD p1 and p2 but quit in p3 because of: - inflation caused by incursions made it economically impossible to buy consumables for a semi-casual player like myself. - ST being 20man combined with the fairly high difficulty made it impossible to pug. - ST being 20man in general making it hard to fill raids.

[@MuppetLord1]

I just hope that there will be a permanent thing like this after the season is over.

[@blborges]

I feel like the first week was pretty fun, and having a PTR for phase 1 would've have ruined a bit of it

[@riklaunim]

Raidlogging can get boring quickly, especially when people know it's the end.

[@peteraugustinos9226]

It's simple for me. I organized 40 man raids and 25 man in tbc and wrath. Now just doing 10 man in cata. I enjoy 10 man raiding more then the larger size groups. Plus the idea of doing vanilla endgame again just doesn't sound appealing.

[@alex-suciu]

I really hope it will, the amount of work devs are putting into this is worth a praise. Not very fond of the the changes in p2 and p3 but I like that at least they're trying to come up with something new. massive respect for the wow classic team

[@Sjakkel]

All I wanted was new zones, new dungeons & raids (not old dungeons converted to raids), new loot ands skills. We got some of those things, but it feels underwhelming ..

[@peaglock3488]

Everyone blaming the Devs, or the retail team took over. Gotta strongly disagree. It's us P1 was so much fun just messing around gearing up and not hardcore min maxing because you really couldnt. Than it became a race to the next max level, get pre-raid BIS, get BIS. It's us people not the Devs....

[@Jp808]

Idk I just moved onto turtle and honestly I wish I had earlier

[@j.o.eofficial1530]

Turtle is the real vanilla + experience imo. Sod is more of Retail Classic mashed together.

[@holysecret2]

I have heard it's quite challenging, if not risky to get into turtle wow, including messing with your game files and such, is that true? If not, I might be interested in checking that out myself some time.

[@80085ftw]

Idea: Nerf experience from Incursions, gain a debuff implemented for the first week of next phase that gives you 100% experience debuff for succesive dungeon runs so people don't solo spam a dungeon to get to max level asap. Force players into the world.

[@Zutang777]

Sod has been super fund an has a lot of things I would love to see in a Classic + wow. As a new concept they made a lot of mistakes and had a learning curve. It wasn’t perfect. But it’s a game. if you want to HATE it and never play it again because of some issues go ahead. But season 4 will be a HUGE!!! One and I can’t wait to play it.

[@-.-Monster]

Molten core and ony = 2-3 week boost in players. BWL = 2-3 week boost in players. ( i think you see where i'm going with this) Naxx will ultimately = about 3 months of VERY QUICKLY DIMINISHING "activity" at the very end. Then it's completely over and you can all complain about how bad blizzard fumbled.

[@Krzych66665]

Honestly if phase 2 was 1 or 2 weeks longer and Phase 3 would let's say end in 2 weeks (around 20th) there would be no issues, that said Nightmare incursios are something that should not be in the game in the form they are implemented, completely trivializing game world content and funneling people into one activity, because it is simply the best for both gold and xp per hour. I understand that this is seasonal content and things can be speed up, but this is still vanilla and I think that simple buff to xp and gold is really enough.

[@Crey_Rob]

They are not “phases”. They were expansions by every definition. Your raid gear was replaced by dungeon loot and your class changes a lot depending on what runes popped up. Of course people timed out, all their effort was meaningless ‘phase’ after ‘phase’

[@Meeces55]

P1 was so successful because it doesnt take forever to get to max level

[@LSDMTful]

P3 leveling with Inc are the fastest leveling methods they've implemented..

[@jessedavis5992]

P1 was successful because it was the closest to vanilla plus. Each phase got further away from the mark.

[@gabbe4781]

It didnt take long to level in phase 2, and it doesnt take long to level in phase 3. The problem is that it's way harder to make alts in both p2 and p3 because you have to sink so much time and gold into getting your pre-bis and into consumes for raiding, and you most likley need all of it because aint no way you're getting invited into a raid now adays with people being so strict about inviting.

[@cpolonium1121]

@@gabbe4781 P2 was a bit slower, for Horde at least, I'm pretty sure alliance had it a lil better but idk. P3 was a joke tho

[@holysecret2]

If that was the standard, phase 3 should be absolutely popping off with incursions, you can still today level faster from 40 to 50 than 1 to 25.

[@Perriax]

Complaining that stuff takes too long or needs multiple people is why you’ll never get back to that authentic classic experience. Talking about rushing to max level was not the point back in the day.

[@CUXOB2]

Do you really still think they will just delete SoD after a year. This is our classic plus, we get it extended forever, it's so obvious. Mastery was a speedrunning event to see who can beat it in limited time. Noone has ever said that about SoD.

[@adamdurell-m7y]

Im definitely looking forward to phase 4, right now I'm just playing other games.

[@unforgivengaming8793]

I also started to do all the quest and having fun just to remember why do I care when it’s all deleted it’s a season server

[@ohchinchindaisuke1927]

They need to make 20 man optional not mandatory 10 man or even flex raiding will always be the best thing implemented.

[@shifterashtongue2684]

P3 had the most content designed, take pen and paper and write everything down for yourself if you dont believe. And again, incursions have 4 huge points everybody seems to miss, first it needed way tiny development they just added phases quests and mobs, it would take endless time to design dungeons or whatever else you feel like. SECOND it gives the same farming potential for all classes and specs something that rly didnt happen in vanilla, mages and hunters were kings and rest were having alts. No pve warrior was farming or pve priest. Barely people had priest mains because they couldnt farm. THIRD incursions is actually playing the game. Its social you group, you do quests, you kill bosses, you outtag your faction, you can optimize the run in many ways, and you farm gold, as you would farm say spamming strat live (which id say would be more repetitive and instanced too). Also that makes bot gold farming less valuable. FOUR you actually get to play your pve toon in something social and PVE. In p1 i was gearing from bfd to farm rfk and p2 i was gearing from gnomer to solo uldaman...WOW..incursions killed the outdoors not.

[@Robiban]

Incursions removed the need to travel and quest/do dungeons. Exp and gold served on a golden plate. Class balance also suck.

[@u4iadreams]

Go back to vanilla. I need someone to run Deadmines with me :(

[@Crix_Gaming]

TBH a fresh Era server would smack right now

[@boarderz8275]

Blizzard completely fucked this season. Taking out gdkp to drop the value of gold and slow down gold buying. Great!!! Actually no, we're going to implement some huge gold sinks so people still buy gold. And then we're going to implement an insane repeatable quest hub to inflate the economy as much as we possibly can. The community forgot about why we wanted #nochanges real fast. Because we didnt trust modern day blizzard to not royally fuck up vanilla. And boy were we right 😂😂😂 Theyre going to need to do something insane in p4 to save jt and i cant see them being bothered or putting the resources in to do it. They look short term no matter what theyre doing and its been the same way classics whole life cycle.

[@dillonw.2297]

I think the wait times between phases is too much. People want to get to end game. Why spend hours and hours on gear when your just going to switch it out eventually? Imagine playing vanilla where you had stay at level 20 for weeks… level 40 for weeks… like that would get boring

[@Yeahitsame]

There are people who pee in the shower and there are liars. The liars in this case are the ones who say they won’t come try it lol

[@travisolexa3074]

Give us fresh progression servers, Blizz. I can see the Classic sub counts tanking by the end of this year when Dragon Soul drops and SoD continues to flounder. If they want to keep them this would be the easiest way, shits already made and bug checked and there is obviously a desire for it.

[@Frostgnaw]

No. SoD turned into normal wow with very few cool abilities. I didn't want normal balance druid. I wanted Elune's chosen ascended half-pineapple guardian balance druid. They squandered the creative and unique opportunities in favor of laziness.

[@GigachadVTuberEnjoyer]

I open cata, play for 10 minutes then go back to SOD. Repeat every few days

[@Caine1996]

I enjoyed SoD for the runes and the PvP, I never got to do the old Rank 14 grind so this mode allowed me to actually do it and it’s been great

[@Mcspazz731]

The pvp changes were good but as a pure pvper I am enjoying cata more and probably here to stay. Granted I haven't played since they implemented the big pvp changes.

[@Caine1996]

@@Mcspazz731 yeah I’ve been playing on cata as well, but once phase 4 comes out I’ll probably jump between the two

[@Fabriciod_Crv]

Quit right into the start of P2, my brother wasn't playing it and playing vanilla alone just isn't worth it, too damn slow and boring

[@blester98]

Ill return defenetly but im just hopping and copping that my guild survives

[@wisniamw]

Too many phases, they should go 30-50-60 Despite we being in the classic game, the phases felt like in retail, where each new phase removed bassicly everything from the previous phase. Runes are insanely powercreeped, sunfire is literally better moonfire for example. These were the maing things I didnt liked in SoD and hope to be changed in p4 with finally max level limit.

[@andreasjohansson1990]

I was sceptical when it launched and said then that people will get bored. SoD made everything way too overpowered and therefor people get bored.

[@ghostmane2643]

Why are the logistics of a 40 man raid that much more difficult? It's really not. You gave no reasoning behind this statement.

[@alexbrooks2235]

You say 12 months total when blizz have said they aren't planning to just close the servers.

[@grafspe807]

I thought SoD was a cool idea but ill never play a seasonal server . I dont want my progress wiped out , been playing since mid TBC so yea i like this game

[@AntonioTorres-xg8yv]

Incursions were the worst thing in SoD by far, made leveling feel like a retail experience, one of the main appeals of classic is the leveling

[@SG-qb8ne]

my guild has moved on from sod. We are playing Cata now and plan on playing retail in August. Too little, too late for SoD.

[@antoineguerrier2965]

For me it all boils down to : Is holy dps priest finally a thing? If it is, I might take a peek. If not, oh well, I have other games to play.

[@Jourifouler]

We all know the weapon slot will be the next rune equipment

[@thoreonx]

No classic better than Hardcore it seems. The gameplay, little things that matter to stay alive, world/social experience etc.

[@Suprastar87]

Incursions ruined it for me. They are going to have to do something REALLY special to get me away from Pandaria Remix

[@SillyGirlKisser74]

for the love of god just BRING FUN SPECS TO RETAIL, it sucks that a class has 3 DPS specs, I want to heal as mage, tank as shaman or warlock, fuck dealing damage in 3 kinda different ways I wanna be invited to raids as a rogue to tank!!

[@ez6791]

Omegalul

[@sagacity1071]

They won't. The meta parse tism community hates change. Look what happened with evoker getting an interesting spec.

[@chipchippahson]

Six months into the season? WillE do you even math? SOD dropped in November my guy. Also if you want to see 40 man raiding return, you literally want to kill SOD. I swear, every person who wants 40 man raiding are dime a dozen dps who don't want to raid lead or aren't guild leaders.

[@supersolenoid]

Seasons are a great way to experiment things but I can't waist my time yet again with no prospect of a future for my investment. For instance, if I knew for sure that no matter what I can transfer my characters (for free) eher Verb i want, then yeah. This rune thing is fine to test hoe abilities can be integrated into classic but ultimately they should just be turned into talent points, especially if devs want us to play more characters. I really hope devs start building a trie classi+ experience from the results of these experimental seasons.

[@bohne8746]

ah right now I‘m done with this season. kinda worn out, guild disbanded etc. Hope for a more permanent Classic+ in the future then I‘m back😊

[@M1ntberrycrunch]

SoD gameplay feels more like WotLK Alternate Universe