William Lane Craig on Romans 9

We did our first Radio Free Geneva in the AOMax studio today, looking William Lane Craig’s comments on Romans 9.
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#Jews #chosen #call

[@davidpatton7298]

Dr White....thank you for all the years of persevering through the power of Gods grace.

[@Chirhopher]

@@mitchellc4 hi Mitchell, that's close to True. However, GOD already Brought The KINGdom and I† shall grow through the proclamation of The GOSPEL, and the Gates of Hell shall Not Prevail -rather, The Tri-HOLY KING, YHWH YESHUA, Reigns.

[@Richard_Rz]

Why thank him if he doesn't believe he had a choice to do it? Isn't it just fizzing like any other of the actors in God's play such as baking soda? Not trying to be obtuse but I don't see Dr Craig's Molinism helping out here either Has someone provided a good answer that makes sense I can read? I am genuinely fascinated here. Thanks!

[@wynniwagner2003]

@Richard R the scriptures are a good place to start. Romans and they romans again. Then' drawn by the father'- Dr James White

[@wynniwagner2003]

@@Richard_Rz' The Holiness of God' RC Sproul

[@savedby_grace6110]

@@mitchellc4 No. Jesus said, the kingdom is here but not fulfilled to its fullness yet.

[@silencenewberry]

Thanks Dr Jimbo, I appreciate your videos brother.

[@silencenewberry]

@@mitchellc4 Amen brother!

[@TheFreedomDefender]

It doesnt shock me that Dr. Craig is now denying the historical Adam and at the same time original sin. Thats the achilles heel in molinism.

[@davidjames5345]

To be fair, a consequence of Calvinism is aborted babies going to Hell

[@Zaloomination]

I maintain that Bill's theology and appearance would be maximized with a glorious beard like he used to have. That was vintage Craig!

[@SugoiEnglish1]

@@mitchellc4 The problem is the kingdom was to be set up when the harlot city was burned and destroyed. That harlot city was where Jesus was crucified and that happened in 70 CE!

[@robertknight3354]

I think it would be better if he wiped the lipstick all the way off before he goes into something publicly seen.

[@wynniwagner2003]

You are so valuable to God's kingdom. Thank you for teaching the truth of scripture. So many impacted! Glory be to God

[@Jebron_G]

How? He's teaching a false gospel!!

[@Thinking-Biblically]

​@@Jebron_Gnot true but if you do believe that then why are you even here? Just to try to troll people who are giving honor when honor is due ? There's always one of you in every single video

[@Jebron_G]

Do you believe that faith which results in salvation is man's responsibility or God gives tt to certain individuals?

[@Thinking-Biblically]

@@Jebron_G I believe it's a gift because Ephesians chapter 2:8-9 says that it is a gift. Study the Greek in this text and you will understand more fully. Also 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 specifically says wisdom, knowledge, faith etc are gifts of the Spirit.

[@Thinking-Biblically]

@@Jebron_G I believe it's a gift because Ephesians chapter 2:8-9 says that it is a gift from God. Study the Greek and you will understand more fully. Also 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 specifically says that it is a gift from the Spirit. Wisdom, knowledge faith etc.

[@lucianofranciadedeus]

I've been reading WLC, and his books are great. Besides he is a great apologist. Acctualy the only one i have seen winning against WLC is Dr. White. I desagree with Bill concerning theology but never the less he is a great Christian and has defended Christ all over the globe. That being said, James White is also great and also a defender of our faith. I thank God for both of them.

[@wojak91]

"What if we're still the 'early church' " wow I never thought of it like that

[@joshhigdon4951]

This is going to be good!

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@joshhigdon4951]

@@mitchellc4 Jesus's kingdom has been established on earth and its growing leaps and bounds! Psalm 110:1-He will rule and reign until all His enemies are a footstool for His feet. The last of these enemies will be death. Heaven isn't our eternal state. Earth is. The meek shall inherit the earth.

[@brycemitchell6343]

Couple points, I am not a Molinist, but whether God chooses to save to people arbitrarily or whether He chooses to save people who have faith either way does not diminish God's sovereign choice, since God is in both cases making a sovereign choice. Secondly God choosing Jacob over Esau was not just a selection of individuals, but also a corporate election of Jacob's descendants also. Which raises the question why aren't all of Jacob's descendants saved. Answer: they did not pursue righteousness through faith.

[@donhaddix3770]

it diminishes God by being unfair in condemning witout a choice to hell.

[@2timothy23]

I agree that Romans 9:6 is the crux of this chapter; everything builds upon that verse. And by building on it and from it, the two natural objections come up that God anticipates: Objection number one: God is unrighteous (or unfair) to elect one over the other (Romans 9:14). And the answer is equally offensive; that God has mercy on whom He will have mercy and He hardens whom He hardens (Romans 9:15-18). Objection number two: If God does it all because He is sovereign, then why would He find fault against the very sinners that can't resist His will (Romans 9:19)? The answer: God is the potter, we are the clay; He does what He does to demonstrate His power, long-suffering, and makes known the riches of His glory to not only Jews, but to Gentiles (Romans 9:20-24). Sinful man shouldn't ask God to explain Himself from a self-righteous perspective as if He answers to us (not unlike God's reaction to Job in Job 38:1-3). I taught an apologetics class at my church last year and Romans 9 came up in the conversation. I told someone who asked about it to read the whole thing and come back next week and tell me what it says. This person knew nothing about reformed theology and I never brought it up. I just wanted her to prayerfully read it and we would discuss it next week. The next week she told me exactly what it said, basically explaining what I just wrote above. And she said to me that her first reaction was that it wasn't fair (when she got to Romans 9:11-13) until she kept reading and understood that God is God and we are not. Romans 9 isn't meant to be debated and cause Christians to attack one another, but to cause rejoicing for our salvation and the fact that God is gracious enough to choose us when we don't deserve it. I know I thank God daily for saving me from the eternal damnation I read in Revelation 20:11-14 because I deserve that, but I don't deserve to be saved by His grace (Ephesians 2:8-9).

[@douglasmcnay644]

This is a great reminder. People have the audacity to point the finger at God and say "You aren't being fair if such and such is true". But who are we to complain against our creator?

[@roshanjohnson7467]

​@@douglasmcnay644 Because the entire point is God is better than us. If he stoops to our level of injustice and his mercy is arbitrary how can He claim to be just? That is inconsistent with what he says elsewhere in the Bible. Also contradictory to many verses which show man has free will and agency.

[@jltc5478]

Minute 9:20 It is true that the Bible says that those who will be saved are a number that no one can count, but it also says that those who rebel against God are like "the sand of the sea". So, IMHO we should leave those private details to God on both sides. The point of Scripture is that God glorifies himself the outcome of the history of salvation.

[@makobean]

Yeah, James recently became a post-millennialist, and in the video he shared defending the view, it included claims like we are living in the early church, and obviously was highly optimistic about the end. So James is just repeating his new eschatology here by emphasizing the number who will be saved in the end. You're right -- it's sloppy to assume there will be more saved than damned based on such passages.

[@carolberubee]

@@makobean yes, and what post-mills like James refuse to see is that during the (future) Tribulation, an innumerable company will be saved (Revelation 7:9). Then, in the Millennial Kingdom, the saved mortals who enter into that Kingdom will multiply (Isaiah 65:23).

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@teckchuonting4582]

“Who is this that darkens counsel without knowledge”

[@osks]

The fact that Craig insists on a different interpretation of Romans 9 when the plain and unambiguous rendering of the text clearly says exactly what it says, even to the Biblically illiterate amongst us, betrays his uncompromising commitment to Autonomianism - asserting the ‘sovereignty of man’ over the sovereignty of God… subordinating the Lordship of God to the ‘autonomous will’ of the sinner! “…I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible arguments” - Colossians 2:4

[@Zaloomination]

I am so thankful that Molinism's possible world theory is not true. If it were, that would mean endless, grotesque suffering IN VAIN and with no redeemable purpose that HAD to occur only because God couldn't avoid it and had to take the good of that chosen world with the bad! What a discouraging and antibiblical view of our only wise God!

[@interworld75]

Mind blown

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@AJTramberg]

2 minutes in....."You dont understand Calvinism". 🙄. So typical. This guy's goalpost is built on wheels.

[@LinebackerTuba]

Regardless of whether Craig understands or not, his take on Romans 9 is demonstrably incomplete, as Dr. White showed here.

[@AndalusianIrish]

'He renews their wills and by his almighty power turns them to good and effectually draws them to Jesus Christ. Yet he does all this in such a way that they come completely freely, since they are made willing by his grace.' 1689 LBCF God brings those who are dead in sin to life by His grace but this grace is so winsome and transformative that the person will come to Christ wholeheartedly. They don't come like someone who has a gun held to their head would obey a gunman. Also Revelation makes it clear that the elect will be made of a great multitude that no man can number.

[@amyntas97jones29]

Craig might have a PHD in theology, but I bet it was in German theology and was associated with higher criticism etc. I don't think he spent much time on studying the Scriptures.

[@johfu4705]

Great Stuff Dr White!

[@PT121551]

Dr. White didn’t address the question why God only choose some and “let alone “ the others for spending eternity with Him. Does God DETERMINED those who will be saved as well as those who will spend eternity in hell by default? If God wants a loving, intimate relationship with His creature, not allowing His creatures to choose freely is the way to accomplish this? I rather think that it is out of my own volition to love Him, praise Him and serve Him with all my HEART!

[@mosesfollowerofchrist5959]

According to scripture a part of the fall of Adam was a corrupt nature which cannot choose God or understand spiritual things and is in hostility to God. If you have a different mindset it's because God changed your heart

[@luvminiwheaties]

I need help with Romans 9. I've studied for 10 years and still cannot figure out why in the world verse 12 is in Romans 9. And why the big lead to the "big" conclusion of children of God and non-children of God - Verses 6-13, Especially 10-11, all these grand statements, leads right into an "obscure" "non-grand" statement - "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger." I would think something way more would be said there. Some strong statement like the many in Romans 9:6-24, but this is what we have. Please help.

[@danvargas6334]

Great analysis !!

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@joelmurrah5443]

When did David Lee Roth take up apologetics?

[@mroh6285]

Craig reads Turretin, James!

[@Ashwin2584]

Didn't know James was a hyper Calvinist. If I go by his explanation of Romans 9, God hardens the reprobate in the same way he enables those who are "elected" for mercy. Very different from the usual Calvinist claim the God only "passes" over those who are not elect.. However, James white seems to be saying that God actively hardens those who are not elect. I.e the people of israel and everyone else by extension who reject the gospel did so because God hardened them. God has "prepared" them for wrath. And the elect accepted the gospel because God has "mercied" on them. I think most scholars view the act of hardening as a judgement passed by God on those who continue in rebellion. In Romans 9, Paul asks a question. The Jews are Gods people, but how have the vast majority of them missed out on the gospel? The promise of the new covenant was made to the Jews after all and Jesus was born among them. His answer is in verse 30-32. They missed out because they pursued righteousness through the law instead of by faith. If I believe James white, Paul should have concluded instead that the Jews missed out cos God sovereignty decided He didn't want them. James white ignores Paul's conclusions and accuses Dr Craig of avoiding the issue.

[@markdaniels1730]

Exactly. They ignore that in Romans 11:32 Paul explicitly rejects the hypothetical situation he brought up in Romans 9 (he asks "what if", he does not say "thus saith the Lord", but Calvinists treat that hypothetical as if it were Paul's positive teaching on the matter). God can have mercy on whoever He chooses to have mercy, and Paul concludes by saying that He has chosen to have mercy on all.

[@sarahd5341]

So take Pharaoh. He was a reprobate sinner, right? Was it wrong for God to use Pharaoh, by hardening his heart, to fulfill his purpose of displaying his wrath & freeing the Israelites? Why was this wrong of God to use his vessel in this way?

[@JohnMackeyIII]

I have come to the realization that there’s another requirement in debate that you cannot use the word faith in any of your arguments or your rebels unless you defined the word faith. You must say what faith is and then you can use it, but if you don’t define it, you are not able to use it.too many people use faith as this crazy magic word and they need to stop because it’s trash because that’s not how you do it.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Evidence shows that we are not currently in the early Church as it is also evident that we are a part of the great falling away. Nothing about the church today suggest we are still in the earky Church

[@andrewadler4576]

Dr white is watching this at 720p ,wow so rich ,I watched this at 144p

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Dr. White do you see why He dealt with the Pharaoh in the manner in which He did? Was it because He made the Pharoah to harden his heart or did the Pharaoh have a hardened heart prior to God using Him?

[@SugoiEnglish1]

I agree Dr. White. He does not understand the doctrines of grace. God is more free than mankind is!

[@user-ns4bl1fd6h]

Cuando Willian L. Craig no está presente, dr. White le refuta, pero en vivo Craig se lo comió en el debate que tuvieron. El Calvinismo es una interpretación defectuosa del cristianismo.

[@ottovonapps]

👍

[@daveperryman291]

Usually the arguments presented to reformed theology are by those who build a strawman and then to proceed to beat it up.

[@Chirhopher]

Look at Ya now, Bro. Somethin like 12k. Remember when Ya kicked it off? -Keep goin Strong, Persevering in The FAITH, Bro

[@911Glokk]

It reminds me of the convo these 2 men had on unbelievable. Calvinism is derived from scripture.

[@donhaddix3770]

no. it is not

[@timothyvenable3336]

@@donhaddix3770can you demonstrate? Using proper exegesis?

[@donhaddix3770]

@@timothyvenable3336 I used word meaning and rules of grammar. White uses his theology.

[@donhaddix3770]

nope

[@timothyvenable3336]

@@donhaddix3770 wait can you explain why he’s wrong biblically or no?

[@HiVisl]

Love your work, James. Hate your Calvinism.

[@Arabian_Epileptic]

Why?

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

10:50 No, WLC is saying that this is the result to Calvinism view.

[@jmwSeattle]

GRACE = God’s Riches At Christ’s Expense

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

What, that refers to the descendents of Abraham, it shouldn't be so hard to understand. As the sands of the sea. Even Esau and Ishmael had great nations which are counted fro the descendants of Abraham.

[@gideon4773]

didn't come here to see men worshipping men, but that's all I see in the comment sections. men who haven't suffered for christ, men with carnal comments who are running away from God and toward men.

[@christhayer5034]

Seems to me we can understand Romans 9 better if we read 10 and 11. The olive tree illustrates Paul’s point.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

They were FITTED to destruction, not prepared. There is a difference. The difference is that the vessels of mercy were PREPARED unto glory before the foundation of the world. Romans 9:23 Vessels of wrath are FITTED to destruction. Destruction of course was PREPARED for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41 “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” The vessels of wrath are fitted to the devil and His angels. While the vessels of mercy are conformed to the image of His Son.

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

So God raised Pharaoh to reject him??? I don't think thats what the text is saying, pharaoh hardened his own heart first, then God hardened it even more to fullfil his purpose. So God raised Pharaoh up to use him as his instrument, because God KNEW that Pharaoh would hardened his own heart first. What do you guys think?🤔

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@SDRBass]

It’s both. God hardens people in divine judgement by handing them over to their sin and He also passes over certain individuals in salvation. He elects nations as well as individuals. All are taught in Scripture. It’s not an either/or concept. In Romans 9, Paul is weaving all of these concepts together in saying that God chooses whomever He wills at the corporate and individual levels and none of it depends on human will or effort. Also, that God is not being unjust by hardening peoples hearts or passing over them for the promises or even salvation (remember the initial concern was that not many Jewish people were being saved).

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

@@SDRBass nope, thats a calvinistic definition, God doesn't hardened anybody against their will, not pharaoh not anybody

[@SDRBass]

@@DimensiondelosSecretos “and God hardened Pharoah’s heart.” It’s in Exodus and in Romans. If you want to discuss what that means, fine. But you can’t deny what Scripture so plainly says and call yourself a Christian.

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

@@SDRBass yeah read exodus, pharaoh hardened his own heart FIRST... God Simply finish the hardening, but in no way did God hardened pharaohs heart agaist his will... I was a calvinist ok, so don't even try to use your man centered philosophy with me, I kNow all the tricks. I did a lot of damage teaching this calvinistic poison to thousands of people in my channel, and now I'm on a journey to correct that. So you may try to explain your calvinism thinking, but I already know it, so just save it please, God DOESN'T ELECT people to salvation and others to Damnation from before the beggining of time. Thats just a FACT

[@DunbarIII]

Anyone got the link of the indepth teaching against provisionists Dr White is talking about ?

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Dr. White, God determined their rebellion, according to your religion.

[@user-kd9th9hm7p]

How can James White sit there and say that he doesn't understand that God can know what someone will do before they are created? Umm, maybe because he is God, you know, the omniscient being who lives outside of time. And he calls it magical, White, do you not know who God even is????

[@apilkey]

@00:19 White states, “the first objections I wanted to raise. Completely inert. If what you mean by completely inert is the doctrine of monergism, and that is that the power of grace that saves is found solely in God and not at least partially in man, then OK. But what is normally missed is that man is not inert, man is in rebellion.” REPLY: ya no one here is arguing that it’s the power of Grace that saves and that is obviously completely in man and not at all in man. Salvation is monergistic. 100% God. 0% man. Freely believing is not part of regeneration so not quote sure why he thinks It is. God in His sovereignty has chosen to only regenerate those who believe. Again, faith happens BEFORE salvation so yes salvation is of God and not of man. Major conflation and confusion on James White’s part.

[@daome2012]

"... Salvation is monergistic. 100% God. 0% man...God in His sovereignty has chosen to only regenerate those who believe." Since *freely* believing/faith precedes regeneration/salvation then salvation is *not* 100% God. Simple

[@apilkey]

@@daome2012 No what’s simple is faith is not part of regeneration. You obviously have no clue what regeneration is.

[@daome2012]

@@apilkey "No what’s simple is faith is not part of regeneration. Then salvation is *not* 100% God as *you* stated. Simple "You obviously have no clue what regeneration is." Unlike you , i don't rely on silly books, syllabi, podcasts etc.

[@apilkey]

@@daome2012 Ya you still have only demonstrated you don’t know what regeneration is. To re-iterate again, freely believing in Christ to perform a Spiritual operation is NOT the same as the operation itself so why do you conflate the two? Faith happens BEFORE the operation not during. Faith is not part of the operation. Just like driving yourself to the hospital isn’t part of a physical operation or surgery. The surgeon doesn’t drive to your house and pick you up and then take you to the hospital to have your surgery as part of the operation itself. A pilot doesn’t drive to your house and pick you up and then take you to the airport to catch your flight as part of the actual flight itself. In no way does driving yourself to the hospital or to the airport take any credit away from the surgeon or from the pilot. You can’t now claim that you helped perform your own surgery because you drive yourself to the hospital. You can’t now claim that you helped fly the airplane because you drive yourself to the airport. See how foolish that kind of reasoning sounds! In the exact same way that the pilot and the surgeon would both laugh at you and think you’ve gone mentally crazy and belong in a psych ward if you were to claim that you participated in your own surgery and flight by simply driving yourself to the hospital/airport. ...so to God looks down at the same foolish argument on anyone to claim they saved themselves by freely believing.

[@boltingpuppies]

Amen. The only thing I would add is that God in His sovereignty has chosen to regenerate those who not only believe but as a result of their belief, after then receiving His Spirit, live out that belief (remain in repentance...continue obeying/repenting) until their death (James 2:14-26)(John 15:1-6). Amen. We believe and *then* are regenerated by God. We are born again by His Spirit who guides us and shows us His ways which we must abide in till our death (repenting along the way when we fall). Amen. Spirit and Truth (Jesus) all the way to the finish line. Keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus till death.

[@friarrodneyburnap8680]

The Problem with what you are did is you are taking sound bits of this man's video...and not letting everyone in your congregation hear the full points this man is making ... He skillfully using versus's to show the errors in your theology

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Dr. White, that's where Calvinism fails. By understanding that God intentions included Him predetermining who will be destroyed. His only intentions were for good, and good alone: Jeremiah 29:11 King James Version 11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Men will have to choose whom they will serve and it is solely their decision, as if it were up to God He would have all repent and none to perish.

[@donhaddix3770]

What is Provisionism? The terms Provisionism and Provisionist are new by the standards of Christian theology. These labels have only been formally defined and used in the past few years. In broad terms, a Provisionist-someone who holds to Provisionism-holds a generally Arminian view of free will and salvation, with notable differences such as positive belief in eternal security. The main gist of Provisionism is the idea that the gospel is the Word of God, which is sufficient in itself, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to enable a response in all who hear God’s appeal to be reconciled to Him (John 6:63; Hebrews 4:12). The clearest differences between Provisionist doctrine and classical Reformed theology are seen in the concepts of total depravity and limited atonement. The doctrine of total depravity suggests all people are inherently sinful, such that they could not even want to be saved without a direct, predestined act of God. Provisionism counters that all people are sinful and responsible for their sin, but they are also responsible for answering God’s universal call for men to be saved (Titus 2:11). Limited atonement is a doctrine teaching that Christ only died for those God had designated as the elect. A Provisionist would reject this, saying that the Bible teaches that Christ died for all people (1 John 2:2), which is why God promises to save any who come to Him in faith (Romans 10:11-13; Revelation 22:17). The Provisionist holds that Christ genuinely desires all of humanity to be saved (Luke 5:32; 19:10; 1 Timothy 2:4-6; ). In effect, this means a Provisionist would also reject other Reformed doctrines such as irresistible grace. The main use of the term Provisionism comes from the writings of theologian Leighton Flowers. The term is also meant to describe the general approach to salvation held by most Southern and Independent Baptists. So far as Reformed doctrine is concerned, this means narrow disagreement on the subjects of total depravity and limited atonement, as well as the exact meaning of words like predestined and elect. Similar to the TULIP in Calvinism, Provisionism can be summarized with the acrostic PROVIDE Responsible: Able-to-respond to God’s appeals for reconciliation. Open door: For anyone to enter by faith. Whosoever will may come to His open arms. Vicarious atonement: Provides a way for anyone to be saved by Christ’s blood. Illuminating grace: Provides clearly revealed truth so that all can know and respond in faith. Destroyed: For unbelief and resisting the Holy Spirit. Eternal security: For all true believers.

[@Zaloomination]

I just realized that when Paul writes that God can create some vessels for honor and some for dishonor, this points strongly in the traditional Calvinist interpretation. It makes no sense in Craig's interpretation since to him those vessels would be free to not be made by God for dishonor.

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

Then you should read jeremiah 18.3.11 where those same vessels have the chance to be remade from vessels of dishonor and wrath, into vessels of honor for God. All they have to do is REPENT!!!! Nothing is set in stone my friend, the calvinist aproach to romans 9 is totally out of the exegetical and hermeneutical scope that paul intended. The chapter; especially that part of the vessels of honor and dishonor, has nothing to do with God chossing some people to go to hell and others to save. That is why the passage goes on to say that God bore with great patience those vessels of wrath, because he gives us the chance to CHANGE from being vessels of wrath to vessels of honor and vice versa. The ones that don't want to change are used by God for his glory in showing his riches to the vessels of his mercy. So just go read jeremiah 18.3.11, trust me I'm an ex calvinist and can tell you that romans 9 is one of the most destructive passages to "debunk" calvinism... The same goes for verse 15 where paul says that God will have mercy on whom he wills, the calvinist take this to mean that God will grant repenteance ONLY to his elect, and that is just not what the bible says. In romans 11.32, paul says that those who God has mercy upon is EVERYBODY jew and gentile, and not some elect ones from before time began. God is the only one who saves, but he ALLOWS us to freely choose if we want to have part in that salvation, so we are not saving our self, we are just choosing if we want to be save by Jesus, or of we want to refuse his salvation, but the calvinists calls that synergism jajaja🤭

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@signposts6189]

@@DimensiondelosSecretos Jeremiah 18.3.11 does not teach that some vessels have the CHANCE to be remade from vessels of dishonor and wrath, into vessels of honor for God. What it does teach is “As the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand.” (Jeremiah 18:6). Jeremiah 18 has very little to do with what Paul is talking about. In fact, Jeremiah is not even talking about vessels of honour and vessels of wrath. He's more concerned with what God does to nations that respond to His ANNOUNCEMENTS of WARNING or BLESSING positively or negatively. The announcements have nothing to do with what is “set in stone” (i.e. God's decree) but rather conditions that are set for judgment and/or blessing for a nation that either obeys God or refuses to obey Him (i.e. God's precepts). Romans 9 is about which people are truly the children of God from among Israel and from among Gentiles and how God has succeeded in keeping His promise to Abraham about his real descendants. The part about the vessels of honor and dishonor is about God's prerogative of mercy and His prerogative of judgment. In other words, God reserves the right to have mercy on whomever He wants or to reveal His wrath and execute His judgment upon whomever He wants. The passage going on to say that God bore with great patience those vessels of wrath does NOT rationalize about supposed chances to change by saying like you say, “because he gives us the CHANCE to CHANGE from being vessels of wrath to vessels of honor and vice versa.” God's bearing with the vessels of dishonour is about His PATIENCE with those He's opted to execute His judgment against rather than show mercy so He can make the riches of His glory shine even brighter on those to whom He shows mercy. This whole thing about “the ones that don't want to change” is something you're reading into the text due to some perceived gripe with so-called “Calvinism.” You said so yourself. You call yourself an ex Calvinist and allege that Romans 9 is one of the most destructive passages to "debunk" Calvinism. Except the position you're now advocating is not taught at all in this passage. Romans 9:15 establishes God's prerogative to show mercy to whomever He chooses. And given that the chapter already established who God reckons as His children as per promise to Abraham, it should be a no brainer that mercy is ONLY for whomever God considers His children drawn from among Jews and Gentiles. As for Romans 11.32, Paul is making a general statement about the equal status of Jews and Gentiles in disobedience so that mercy may be shown to all (i.e. people from both among Jews and Gentiles). He doesn't mean all in the sense of universalism or unlimited atonement, but rather all in the sense of saving people from both camps of Jew and Gentiles without playing favourites with either group. The fact is God's mission is always about saving ALL “who were prepared in advance for glory..” (Romans 9:23) from among Jews and Gentiles. Saying God is the only one who saves, but then adding “he ALLOWS us to freely choose if we want to have part in that salvation,” is grasping at straws. God doesn't allow anyone to freely choose to have part in salvation. God simply saves and makes us a part of His glorious salvation seeing as “...it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.” (Romans 9:16). That my friend is how we are not saving our self.

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

@@signposts6189 I think youbare the one reading your own traditions into the text... the same way God speaks about nations in jeremiah 18, he also does it in romans 9, election doesn't have anything to do with individuals or salvation, and that is what paul is drawing from the old testament when he talks about vessels of wrath and mercy, or do you think he came up with thos vessels thing all by himself? No, he is talking about jeremiah 18... where God allows this nations to CHANGE... is right there on the text... Paul also draws a parallel 2 timothy 2.20.21 abiut being vessels of wrath and honor... "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work." If purge ourself of thisbthing that makes us vessels of wrath or dishonor, we will become vessels of honor or mercy...it is simple... And it is obvious that God is the only one who saves, but when you add your vlcalvinistic paradigm into it, then faith also has to be something that God installs in you I.E regeneration. And thisnisnhust not biblical... regeneration does not come before faith.. faith comes first and it os not a work. It is a gift from God, but a gift has to be receive. The gift of salvation (ephesians 2.8.9) has to be accesed trough faith... that is the only way we access the grace that saves us... that is the only way you get regenerated... faith first, then regeneration... it's simple

[@signposts6189]

@@DimensiondelosSecretos You don't know what my traditions are, so it's useless to talk about my reading them into Scripture. Anyway, you say God speaks about nations in Jeremiah 18 as he also does it in Romans 9. No He doesn't. Individuals are always in view even when nations are being spoken about. After all, what are nations but a collection of so many individuals. The nation turns to evil and refuses to obey me is really a bunch of individuals who turn to evil and refuse to obey God. So, election has everything to do with individuals and salvation. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all individuals and God spoke to them individually. Paul's use of vessels of wrath and mercy is illustrative and not necessarily connected to Jeremiah 18. He is not talking about Jeremiah 18 seeing as he is making a slightly different point with his illustration than Jeremiah was. Jeremiah 18 is concerned with the consequences of obeying or not obeying God's precepts. Romans 9 is more concerned with God's plan to save whomever He wants, however He wants and whenever He wants. Jeremiah 18 hardly teaches your idea that God allows nations to CHANGE. It simply sets conditions for when people change given His precepts He commands of them. 2 Timothy 2.20.21 is not relevant to interpreting Romans 9. But of course someone like you will run to it because you don't have a good handle on interpreting Romans 9 in its own immediate context. You may think it obvious that God is the only one who saves, but you already contradicted yourself by alleging YOU can still partner with God because God apparently “allows you to change.” Again you grab for more straws by talking about irrelevant things to the discussion at hand like regeneration not coming before faith. Regeneration does come before faith by the way. Jesus said so in John 3:3-6. And also faith is a work. Again, Jesus said so in John 6:29. Faith being a gift from God simply means that it is actually a WORK OF GRACE. Besides, faith is listed as a FRUIT of the Spirit in Galatians 5. So there's that.

[@Post_Tenebras_Lux_]

How in the world can God choose to sovereignly save classes (Jews and Gentiles) but not sovereignly save individuals? Craig Lane is limiting God’s sovereignty in salvation to support his presuppositional view of “free will.” He doesn’t understand the radical corruption of man in original sin. God must regenerate a person and give them the gift of faith and repentance. ITS ALL GOD! He gets all the glory!

[@apilkey]

Has absolutely nothing to do with freewill. Has everything to do with what does scripture say and is it your authority. God getting all the glory is another attempt at sidetracking the issue. God gets all the glory no matter what and He doesn’t need you telling Him how He can and can’t be glorified. It’s not a matter of “understanding the radical corruption of man”. It’s about you don’t understand everything God’s done in taking the Divine Initiative in sending His Son and don’t believe any of that is good enough to convince fallen man. Is God a failure in everything He’s done so He’s forced to regenerate people first or else no one would believe?

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@bossabassa364]

@@apilkeyso people chose to be saved? They have freewill?

[@apilkey]

@@bossabassa364 What does the Bible say? Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Do you reject scripture?

[@bossabassa364]

@@apilkey where does it say that we have the freewill to do that? Your position is weak because you are adding to scripture . So you threaten me and say “oh you deny scripture if you don’t agree with me” spurgeon disagreed with you, Augustine disagreed with you Paul disagreed with you and the Bible disagrees with you. How do you even pray and thank God for salvation? “Thank you Lord that I made the decision to call upon the name of the Lord.” Scripture disagrees with you. Titus 1:1, John 6:4, Roman’s 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:4-5.

[@jamesstandifer1683]

William Lane Craig understands calvinism. He just disagrees.

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@jesuschristsaves9067]

Amen

[@philblagden]

His disagreements are primarily philosophical and not biblical. He doesn't even believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis.

[@jesuschristsaves9067]

@@philblagden no one said genesis was to be interpreted literal.

[@philblagden]

@@jesuschristsaves9067 The whole bible assumes Genesis is literally true. Jesus taught that God created humans as male and female at the beginning of creation. People like Craig who believe in evolution and billions of years do not accept that humans were around at the beginning of creation. Paul assumed a literal Adam as the first man in Romans 5. If the Adam of scripture existed, and we believe the genealogies and know what date the patriarchs lived to then you cannot accept billions of years for the age of the earth, and you cannot accept humans evolving from ape like ancestors. If Craig really believes that God made Adam from the dust of the ground, then he needs to abandon the evolution lie and stop telling people Genesis is mythology.

[@Jebron_G]

From the beginning of time, there were those who tried to fix their mistakes and their sin. Adam and eve did and so did their children and children's children. There were those who were described as righteous, like King David who thru faith was accounted as man after God's heart. Abraham was also accounted as righteous and many more even in a wicked generation. This notion JW wants to paint that everyone is evil and every man chooses evil and intentionally defies God is unblical and only serves to promote Calvinism tulips. The provision is given thru the good news to those who can't fix their sin problem but believe in the one who could. Faith unlocks the power of God for salvation. Your faith!! Romans 1

[@urawesome4670]

Ok, Whites favorite color is cyan. 🤓

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@gingrai00]

What an excellent understanding of Romans 9! This William Lane Craig seems to be onto something! It seems as if he has found some way to understand that God is sovereign and humanity, whom he made in his image, has freedom.

[@a.arellano6558]

In context God's election is: " IF ..YOU confes.. and BELIEVE... will be saved" 10:9. And the final explanation that Paul gives to the 3 chapters about God's will is: "for God has consigned all men to disobedience, that HE may have MERCY UPON ALL" ROM.11:32. And it's according to "for the GRACE of God has appeared for the salvation of ALL MEN" Titus 2:11. But J.White's talking is not consistent with the rest of clear passages in the Bible.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Why did God hate Esau?

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

There is the true Israel and then there are those that are Israel according to the flesh. The seed, not of many, as the seeds of the nation of Israel but the seed as in One, that is Jesus Christ. So God's elect are not determined by their descent but the election of God through faith.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Stop right there Mr. White. According to you God determined that some men would rebel before they were even born. Calvinism is a belief in meticulious divine determinism over every thought, choice and event throughout human history-and according to John Piper this includes every one of your personal, besetting sins (quote below). That's what WLC means by innert, that nothing good or bad is mans fault because according to Calvin God made them the way they are.

[@donhaddix3770]

Calvinists, what if you are chosen for hell?

[@carltonhepburn4072]

So how does God chose? and what are the standards? Because by default we all fail...would you agree? Yes, it's true God can do what he wants, but to say he has hand-selected who are going to heaven needs a lot of explaining a simple scripture comes to mind. ( Colossians 2:8 ) See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. Let the bible speak and keep it simple...

[@electronicMI]

Carlton Hepburn wrote: "Let the bible speak and keep it simple..." Okay: “What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.” (Romans 3:9-11) “For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” (Romans 8:7-8) “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.” (Ephesians 1:3-6) “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:8-10) “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.” (Romans 11:6)

[@apilkey]

Exactly it’s a simple gospel that reformers pervert and complicate. Yes it’s God’s choice and God has sovereignly decided to save anyone who believes. No fine print or subtlety. Everyone has the GOD-given ability to believe and everyone is called.

[@apilkey]

@@electronicMI Great passages. None of them support Calvinism.

[@electronicMI]

@@apilkeywrote: _"Great passages."_ Yes they are. You wrote: _"None of them support Calvinism."_ No one here said they did.

[@apilkey]

@@electronicMI you were implying they did or else you would have no reason to post them. Don’t be deceptive.

[@billlythekid5780]

God is free in the matter of election. No one is saved or perishes apart from the will of God. That said, God doesn’t will that any should perish. You cannot reconcile these ideas with Calvinistic determinism, unless you’re willing to concede logic, which Calvinists like White do, though they oppose that, displaying total cognitive dissonance. If salvation is determined before the foundations of the world, sit back and relax, because evangelism logically can change nothing. Period. “ItS tHe MeAnS bY WhICh God ReaCHeS ThE eLeCt!” No, not if they’re predetermined to not be reached. See the conundrum? Calvinism makes reality a puppet show whereby evangelists compete for the “real boy” award. Still wooden, though. Calvinists will say this isn’t Calvinism, though, and display further cognitive dissonance. Literally everyone outside of Calvinism sees it is the logical implications of the system. You can’t be in a system and understand how the system works, as you can’t know what it’s like to be real when you’re wooden, Pinocchio. P.S. Calvinists please don’t get angry with my comment: God predestined it. Take it up with Him if you’re mad.

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

Oh man, why do calvinist always end there romans 9 argument on the vessels of honor, dishonor, wrath and mercy? It's like they have it planned out or something jejeje... So what about the vessels? Yeah God is the one who has the power to shape them however he likes, he can make vessels of honor (mercy) or vessels of dishonor (wrath) but does that mean that once they are made, they don't have a chance to change from dishonor to honor or vice versa??? Please read this: Jeremiah 18.3.10 "This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “Go down to the potter’s house, and there I will give you my message.” 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel. 4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him. 5 Then the word of the Lord came to me. 6 He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it." So the key to understanding the vessels of honor and dishonored is REPENTANCE, if God builts you up to be a vessel of dishonor and has terrible things planed for you (according to your disbelief, your sin and your unwillingness to do the right thing) then you can repent, and he will turn you into a vessel of honor. So brothers and sisters, please don't be like israel who God raised to be a vessel of honor, but ended up being a vessel of wrath and dishonor, and thats why God destroyed them in a.d 70... love you all, God bless james white and anybody who reads this.😇

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

@@mitchellc4 please go away with your unitarian heresy bullcrap somewhere else...

[@mitchellc4]

@@DimensiondelosSecretos Who is Jesus repeatedly referring to as “my God”? Rev 3 12 He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. Who is Peter and Paul referring to as “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”? Rom 15 6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 2 Cor 11 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed for ever, knows that I do not lie. Eph 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 1 Pet 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

@@mitchellc4 himself, thats who

[@mitchellc4]

@@DimensiondelosSecretos Your answer is that Jesus is talking about himself as “my God”?? Rev 3 12 He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. That’s your answer?? Who is Peter and Paul referring to as “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”? Rom 15 6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 2 Cor 11 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed for ever, knows that I do not lie. Eph 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 1 Pet 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[@ianhelgerson6146]

Yes every generation thought it was the last, and everyone generation also ignored revelation showing that multiple things hadn't happened yet. Well several things in revelation have happened now. Check out Robert Breaker, Andy Woods, and DTBM. They go over everything in depth.

[@mertonhirsch4734]

Abandoning willfulness

[@makobean]

I'm watching on 1.75x and James is still too slow and wordy. This man sure does love listening to himself talk.

[@MarkTheMimic]

You sure love turning your brain off. He's a scholar so he talks like one. Most scholars, professors, anyone in academics etc talks like that. You're probably just not used to listening to professors.

[@makobean]

@@MarkTheMimic This is the stupidest take yet. What a maroon.

[@UltraAar]

hes clear and consistent, which helps us slow learners! Sorry that we small minded people just listen at normal speed brother

[@MrNanonen]

Since when has it ever been a criticism to be taking ones time with exegeting Scripture? Oh you bad Christian.... you take your time to use Gods word to understand Gods word.... Does your impatient attitude extends towards God because the Bible contains 750k words? That God takes too long explaining His revelation through Scripture?

[@makobean]

@@MrNanonen Or maybe he just took ten times as long as required to exegete, including wasting time with Greek that doesn't give any clarity over the English? Idiot.

[@DimensiondelosSecretos]

But james, God DOES make a Class election, you said it yourself in verse 6, he CHOSE israel, but not ALL of israel is saved... It's not about DOING SOMETHING, is about God ALLOWING us to CHOOSE, how can you called that synergism? GOD is the only one who saves, is HIS choice not ours, and he chose to save the ones who believe, so it is a class election made up of INDIVIDUALS...

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@apilkey]

@01:30 White states, “so there is a tendency on the part of man to greatly diminish the role of man and the um energetic role of man in his idolatry, his rebellion, his suppression of God's truth, all of these things.” Reply: No actually the opposite is true again, in that Calvinist greatly diminish the power of God and the Divine Initiative and everything God has done in taking the first step towards fallen man by: 1) Sending His Son. 2) Sending His Holy Spirit. 3) Giving us His Word. 4) Speaking to us through creation. And the list goes on and on and on. But Calvinists greatly diminish this and exalt mankind’s fallenness above God’s persuasiveness. What more do you WANT? What more do you NEED? Was God’s plan not sufficient enough? Was it not perfect? Is Christ not sufficient enough? Is God’s word not sufficient enough? Is all of creation not sufficient enough? Is everything that God’s done in taking the DIVINE INITIATIVE AND FIRST STEP towards us not compelling or persuasive enough that He still has to effectually make us believe or else none would come to Him? The only diminishing going on here is Calvinist diminishing of everything God has done. A diminishment of Christ and the power of the cross and a diminishment and limiting of the atonement.

[@amyntas97jones29]

Craig is simply wrong here.

[@TrueLifeAdventures]

But James...when God supposedly chose the elect in eternity past...they were not rebel sinners sir. RC Sproul made this same error. God not saving rebel sinners has nothing to do with the fact that, on Calvinism, He made that choice before any of us were born and before we had "done any good or bad." What a laughable doctrine.

[@danielomitted1867]

They certainly would be, which is why they need to be saved. I'm sorry you seemingly think God is required to save those who hate him

[@TrueLifeAdventures]

@@danielomitted1867 I'd really like to converse with you on this if that would be ok with you? When you say "they certainly would be" what do you mean by that?

[@danielomitted1867]

@@TrueLifeAdventures I'm just pointing out God has no need to save those who aren't sinners. So then if God chose to save me before I was born, it has to be in light of the fact that I would be a sinner. Otherwise from what am I being saved?

[@TrueLifeAdventures]

@@danielomitted1867 Thanks for your response! Do you mind if I ask if you're a Calvinist? It helps me answer questions in a more precise way when dealing with what Scripture says.

[@danielomitted1867]

@@TrueLifeAdventures Im a Reformed Baptist, I fit under the label Calvinist but I really don't care all that much about the Calvinist club.

[@TheChristianNationalist8692]

Something is wrong with you White. I mean it. I’ve worried about you, but this video confirms it. You’re playing games with Craig’s words and I see you craftily trying to implicate the viewer into your lie concerning Craig’s knowledge on Calvinism: first, saying in your opinion he hasn’t read them but in bias, second, that he hasn’t spent much time in bias, and then finally, he hasn’t in fact read much of the material from your perspective: it’s sly and ingenious and many of your fans or anyone in general wouldn’t be able to see it but I see and have communicated and know liars and psychopaths who act the same. You need to repent under God seriously.

[@apilkey]

@1:07 White states, “If we were going to be biblically accurate in responding to what was being said you would have to liken it much more to people, to rebels, who have invaded God's castle and have killed his Son and are busily burning the place down on top of themselves.” REPLY: Um wrong. If you were to be accurate based upon what Calvinists believe (which is not Biblically accurate), you would actually have to liken it to God ordaining people and creating these rebels fore the sole purpose of invading His castle and killing His Son with no ability to do otherwise. And then sending them to hell for rejecting an offer that was never genuinely made to them. Another completely dishonest statement by James White. Nice try though.

[@ProclaimingtheLight]

That's a misrepresentation of Calvinism. You are confusing Calvinism with fatalistic determinism. Man's free will and God's sovereignty go hand in hand. All Reformed Confessions state this☝️. Also read Jonathan Edwards's freedom of the will. With that said God does determine salvation but God did not force individuals to rebel. That is a very inaccurate representation of Calvinism.

[@apilkey]

@@ProclaimingtheLight Calvinism is fatalistic determinism so I’m not confusing the two. WESTMINSTER CONFESSION Chapter 3 I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass... Are you saying there are some things excluded from “whatsoever comes to pass”? Because that’s not what the confession says. Whatsoever means whatsoever. That’s fatalistic determinism no matter how hard you try to justify it.

[@ProclaimingtheLight]

@@apilkey finish the quote. U r taking a partial quote. What does the rest of it say?

[@ProclaimingtheLight]

@@apilkey God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:(1) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,(2) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.(3) Notice that it says violence is not offered to the will of the creatures. Also notice that it says that God ordaining things establishes the secondary causes. Learn what that means my friend bc that clearly proves that Calvinism is not fatalistic determinism.

[@apilkey]

@@ProclaimingtheLight Question: Yes or no did God ordain whatsoever comes to pass?

[@theocratickingdom30]

Dr. Craig is a dreadful expositor. Either he doesn’t do it enough so he isn’t good at it, or he just lacks the gift. But, my word. For the record, I have watched the original video numerous times.

[@danielomitted1867]

No its not that hes bad at it, its that he doesnt do it lol

[@mitchellc4]

The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! God resurrected the Messiah! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

Right and while their burning HIS castle down if all repent towards GOD HE will save all..And for you to speak of someone disrespecting somebody is laughable James ..

[@davidpatton7298]

Please, continue....give us some particular examples of when James White offended you? Do you believe Jesus Christ ever "offended" a human? His disciples said he did. Did he? Are you a man pleaser?

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@@davidpatton7298 James white isn't any of the men you just named and my statement wasn't for your education.. It is simply a fact I have come to know by observing his behavior...

[@Zaloomination]

James wasnt speaking of disrespecting any person, but that Craig has a disrespectful view of reformed theology.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@@Zaloomination but my friend all James has for anyone who isn't a Calvinist is disrespect and untruths concerning their beliefs..ive watched him so so many times lie about Armenians beliefs n provisionist beliefs and others as well... And he knows he's lying when he does cause the man wasn't born yesterday..

[@tylerbuckner3750]

He was attacking WLC’s apparent presupposition that man is somehow some victim of circumstance or neutral bystander that accidentally fell in the pool or burning castle. Paul is clear that, as rebels who are hostile towards God, we LOVE drowning just to spite God’s lifeline and we revel in burning down His castle even if we’re standing in it. Our very nature loves sin and hates God. It’s 100% black and white in Scripture.

[@joshuabigbee5874]

Can we please just get rid of the term "Gentiles"? It's not in the Bible. It's an adoption of a Latin word that locks in a meaning that is supposed to be contextual. It is usually unnecessarily restrictive and often misleading to the interpretation of the passage. Goy/ethnos is simply people/nations. That often is in contrast to the Jews, therefore non-Jew, but often this doesn't sense in context OR disagrees with the OT reading (why are Matt 12:18 and Isaiah 49:6 translated differently in the same Bibles?). In the context of Romans 9 it doesn't make sense to use gentile to exclude Israelites (instead of just Jews/Judah) given Paul's direct quotation of Hosea later in chapter 9. He connects the church to the prophecy for the Northern kingdom Israel. Peter does the same in 1 Peter. "Gentile" restricts the conceivable interpretations to exclude the very people the verse is explicitly referencing.

[@ianpaterson4956]

How can someone be in rebellion if they are spiritually dead.. Makes no sense. The bible says the heart is sick, not dead. Romans 9 is completely being misinterpreted by Calvinist’s. Though it’s not to late to turn back

[@frankiemonato583]

Romans 3:10-23 no ine seeks GOD

[@timothyvenable3336]

Spiritually dead means unable to seek God. But regardless, can you exegete Romans 9 for all the Calvinists who misrepresent it? I hardly hear non-Calvinists exegete it, they only just say “it can’t mean that, you’re wrong”

[@iglesiamamqv]

The gospel of Calvinism is sick

[@savedby_grace6110]

Perhaps your understanding of God is different..