Wind & Truth Theorycrafting (feat. Bookborn, 2ToRamble, & SRS)

[@TheSandbox_Official]

What is your craziest, spiciest, most WILD theory?

[@CosmereReviews]

The cognitive and physical realm combine! We know Ishar is trying to bring the cognitive manifestations of spren into the physical realm, and pattern states that spren(cognitive) and humans(physical) are 2 halves.

[@Panamaniac3D]

Pretty sure it is wrong, but sometimes I kinda wonder if Shallan is Chanarach rather than her mother. I am pretty confident in the Shallan’s mom is a herald theory, especially knowing that Taln didn’t break, but on this reread I’m seeing things where I could see Shallan being the herald. Her brothers are definitely real since Mraize kidnaps them, but perhaps Shallan/Chana killed her child and took her place with illusions. We know she is super traumatized and hides everything about her past, is a super unreliable narrator, so maybe she is fabricating all of this due to her herald madness and the influence of the Unmade we know about. Like I said, I think her mom is the herald and Shallan killing her sent her back to Braize, but just little things are popping out on this reread.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@Panamaniac3D I honestly wouldn’t be surprised, I remember thinking this too before I heard the theory actually. But I believe there was something that contradicts it though I can’t recall what it was.

[@Panamaniac3D]

@@TheSandbox_Officialthere probably is. I bet Sanderson had left things intentionally ambiguous to not nail things down. I know he said he did that for Taravangian taking up Odium’s shard and didn’t decide to do it until he got to Rhythm of War.

[@dominictyler3008]

Odium's champion is going to be Gavilar. Odium highjacked the burgeoning bond he had to the Stormfather which gives us the Stormfaker and after Szeth killed Gavilar old Rayse kept him round as a cognitive shadow and will bring him back for the contest

[@2ToRamble]

What a blast! Thanks so much for having us on - great chatting

[@TheSandbox_Official]

One of the best times and conversations I’ve had! Anytime, anywhere, I’m down for Round 2! Thanks again for joining 😁

[@alexandtahlla2865]

Odium: “I’m going to pick a toddler to be my champion, surely Dalinar won’t be able to kill a family member.” Dalinar: “hold my firemoss.” (Uses his powers to pull the Thrill back up from the ocean) “the blackthorn is back, baby.”

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Nooooo poor lil Gav! 😂😂😂

[@MareKholin]

Imagine if Odium comes to the contest and says “ready for the cooking battle?” And Dalinar is like WHAT lol

[@TheSandbox_Official]

😂😂😂 Rock, we need you!

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

In regards to Shallans final truth. I really want the theory of Chanarach being Shallans mother to be true. That also means that she is back on Roshar. I want them to have a conversation where she aknowledges that her killing Chanarach brought the True Desolation, but... I want them to see the truth, it was a child defending herself from being murdered. I want Shallan's final truth to be: "It wasn't my fault."

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@pontuslindheohlsson2184 perfect! No notes!

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

@@TheSandbox_Official Also, thank you for this video, it was very interesting to listen too! I don't have any friends that are as Sanderson nerdy as I so listening to you was wonderful!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@pontuslindheohlsson2184 oh that’s great to hear! Hoping you find some Sanderfan friends soon! I’ll be doing a post-W&T theory video in January-ish with some other Cosmere content creators so be on the lookout after you’ve read it! 😁

[@grc3rb]

I legitimately teared up reading it wasn’t my fault, and it moved me to my soul 🥺

[@westonhutson1894]

Isn't that a little too much odium-esque? Maybe I'm wrong but I think it will be something else for her final truth.

[@xJupy]

Something important to remember about the "Shallan's mom being a herald" theory is that Odium through the Everstorm already found a way to circumvent the oathpact and bring his spren back/resurrect the fused. That means that Shallan's mom dying and then giving in before Taln was probably the only possible way they could have gotten Taln back on Roshar, meaning she didn't really start the end of the world, she helped save it.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Ooh I’ll have to look further into that timeline. I’m still a bit iffy on the Fused stuff. But that’s a GREAT twist/reveal regarding that theory! Thanks for sharing

[@hubrisnxs2013]

That's true...but remember Taln came back at the end of WoK, while the ever storm did not come about until the end of WoR. It's not much of a time difference, but it's significant enough, I think

[@IamHattman]

​@@hubrisnxs2013 We just know that Taln was found then. He could have been wandering around the mountains or something for who knows how long.

[@CoconutMigrating]

@@IamHattmanthat only increases the time gap further.

[@carlsmith4568]

Good point. A Taln/Shallan scene would be amazing!

[@SilverlightGuidetotheCosmere]

Spiciest theory: Wyndl is Odium's champion. The cultivationspren gets so tired of the BS and decides he's going cultivate the ending of Roshar that he wants.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

First of all, how dare you. Second of all, that’s hilarious. 😂

[@valliyarnl]

After hanging out with Lift I’d become Odiums champion too 😂

[@nihftyy]

I always knew he was a pesky voidbringer!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Woah woah woah, how dare you! Lift is Roshar’s national treasure!

[@valliyarnl]

@@TheSandbox_Official haha I know I know 🙈🙈🙈 Hate to be contrarian haha

[@danielp.robertson869]

Have you all seen Sanderson's writing lectures on KZbin for his BYU class? I remember years ago he talked about giving characters a flaw. Their arc isn't about defeating the flaw but learning to live with it. I think he gave the example of depression and said youndont have the character heal from depression then they are never depressed again, but have them learn how to cope with it. I don't know if WoK was even out yet when this lecture was recorded.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yes, I remember that now that you say it! Loved those lectures! That’s why I really like the idea of the 5th Ideal just being about coping and learning to value your life and pursue overall health.

[@IamHattman]

For the 5th ideal, look at what Kaladin is striggling with in the story: he has a hard time with knowing that the other side is mostly just normal Singers. All of his exsisting ideals have to do with protection in a universal sense. The more oaths he swears the more likely he is to get stuck between two oaths. What we see from the Skybreakers seems to indicate that each order is the same. Each oath requires you to have more perspective to then need/be able to swear the next, which in turn creats space for conflict within your oaths. The fifth oath seems to provide a way to tie it together and relieve that pressure while also somehow upping the ante. Based on those things Kal's 5th oath has to be something about choosing who he does and does not protect, and by extension that there are those he should protect, could protect, and who in protecting he will do more harm, and that it is correct for him to make those decisions.

[@StrawMan1235]

I think there is a chance we see Kelsier attempt to contact Shallan via seon. And since Kalak now has that Seon things will go badly for Kalak.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@StrawMan1235 oooooh 👀

[@saki1333]

Great point

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

Kelsier has already been in contact with Shallan via seon. She told him to go to hell...

[@stevencooney3347]

This prediction would take the series into its darkest moment, but I think that Moash will fail his opportunity to be redeemed, and will then take his own life. My hesitation is that I’m not sure Brando is willing to go that dark, but he already dabbles in suicide as a motif and it very well fits the Kaladin foil aspect.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Hmm there could be something there! Do you think that would inspire Kal further to speak his 5th Ideal, and want to prevent anyone from taking their own life?

[@janwouter5215]

​@@TheSandbox_Officialthat would be a weird 5th ideal. Maybe if you make it more vague. "I will protect anyone, even from themselves"? Idk

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

Could totally see this being a huge inversion of the Heroic Sacrifice trope. Moash decides to do one last good thing in his life and instead of giving his life to save his friends, after he becomes Odiums champion or a key player in his new war effort, he takes his own life, crippling Odium and destroying the unique power invested in him. Either that OR he kills himself at a key moment, right in front of Kaladin, in the hopes that he causes him enough emotional suffering to distract and kill him.

[@andrewberenson5717]

I love the 5th ideal Trevor proposed. Kaladin needs to accept that others can protect him.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Thank you man! Yeah I definitely think Kaladin either 1) learning to put his own oxygen mask on before assisting others (can’t save people if you’re dead) or 2) teaching others how to protect themselves are the only ideals that naturally continue his arc and elevate his mindset, therapeutically speaking 😅

[@thomastrovato8672]

Kaladin’s 5th Ideal: I accept that I must protect myself before I can protect others. Kaladin needs to accept that he is worthy, he himself, and that must come first, before he can fully help others.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Love it!

[@Escendrix]

“I will allow others to protect me”

[@SLALIONLLC]

Fantastic discussion! Loved the theories and y’all’s chemistry! Personally I think the battle will result in a tie but Dalinar will still become Odium’s servant after some trickery.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Thanks man! And yeah I think that has a solid chance of happening, too!

[@SpencerRussellSmithAuthor]

This was so fun! Thank you for having me on!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Of course! Thanks for the great discussion!

[@ladymairreads]

This was super fun to listen to! I’m terrible at theories but I know book 5 is going to break me

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah we’re all slightly terrified 😅

[@big-fish1199]

2 to Ramble are the GOATs

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Such fun guys to talk to!

[@Slater2113]

I honestly think that Moash was mostly sympathetic until RoW. I may be forgetting a key moment or two that might sway me one direction or another but killing Elochar (as much as I love his arc) and generally disliking the alethie aristocracy is pretty epic.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah dude, we’ll see what BrandoSando decides for his future, but it’s a coin flip at this point 🤷‍♂️

[@AlexRock-gx8mg]

Adolin (Ay-Doh-Lynn). Enjoyable show but that hurt every time you guys said Adolin the way you did

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Ngl it hurt me too 😅

[@zyrain]

Kaladin’s 5th ideal: I will sacrifice those I must.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Oooh a tad dark for me, but I like the angle

[@gryphonsandspears1632]

I think the set up for Gavilar(Elhokar's kid) beign the champion is simple. He was neglected, tortured, watched his father die, and now explcitly wants revenge. For odium to look at this child and promise him what he promised Moash, freedom from pain, power to hurt those who killed his uncle. Odium has moash, all he has to do it say "become my champion and i will help you kill your fathers killer" He would take it

[@thomasadjetey5029]

Great discussion! A pleasure to listen to. Thanks all

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@thomasadjetey5029 so glad you enjoyed it! There will be another one post-W&T with some other BookTube/Cosmere creators!

[@TheMatSignal.]

The contest is going to go down like Bill and Ted vs Death

[@TheSandbox_Official]

🤣🤣🤣

[@thepurpleberry]

Cultivation will be Odium's champion

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That’d actually be sick tho I highly doubt it

[@jaredferguson6082]

For 5th ideals, I think they essentially mean that that radiant embodies their order. With the skybreakers it is becoming the Law. I think the Windrunner's 5th ideal will be along the same lines.

[@Christian-ut2sp]

Deserves more views

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@Christian-ut2sp thanks Christian! It’s hopefully on its way! 😅😂

[@jinxx9515]

I've been leaning towards that the 5 ideal would have to something really hard on kaladin. Something even harder than for him to accept that he can't save everyone. So I'm leaning towards something along the lines of... I accept that i must sometimes sacrifice others in order to protect.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That’s not a bad step above the 4th. Only time will tell!

[@hidenki5790]

Odium makes the duel an eating costest. But Dalinar chose Lift as his champion. And everyone lived happily ever after. Hoids truth is that he actually is Brando Sando and the Cosmere is not a novel, but a memoir.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Love em! Zero notes 😅

[@king_dot]

I think for the contest of champions it will be Dalinar vs Gavilar and the duel will be more a debate then a fighting duel

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Interesting! I don’t think I’ve ever seen Gavilar be proposed. I’m sure Sando could find a way to bring back his spirit, especially if the Spiritual Realm plays a role in the book!

[@Panamaniac3D]

I think this could be kinda cool to see play out on screen. I don’t think it would be the contest, although that is possible, but I like Dalinar looking at Gavilar after trying to follow what he thought Gavilar wanted only to find out that his brother really wasn’t the same person we thought. Most of the time we thought Gavilar was awesome until we saw the S5 prologue and got in his head.

[@steelorca3015]

Maybe Kaladin’s 5th Ideal will be “I accept that others may not want my protection,” and that could relate to how Moash doesn’t want to be saved or redeemed.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@steelorca3015 👀🤔

[@Sheija]

I will LEAD others to protect themselves. Also I think there’s a WOB about some people struggling more with the Fourth than the Fifth, so I don’t think it has to be more difficult for everyone. For instance I think the Third Iseal was a bigger struggle for Teft than it was for Kaladin, and he would have had an easier time with it than Kaladin did based off their personalities.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah I personally think the 5th will be more about leadership as well. Interesting that it might not be as hard, though narratively I see where Bookborn is coming from on that. I also still like the “I will protect myself”. Goes in line with what Austin said and something I’ve thought for a long time now. You can’t save people if you’re dead. Put your own oxygen mask on before assisting others.

[@Sheija]

@@TheSandbox_Official I do like the I will protect myself quite a bit though I agree leadership should come into it. Brando also said Kaladin’s turned a corner narratively, so I don’t expect to see as much of an internal struggle as last book. That was peak. I know Bookborn thinks the Skybreaker Ideals are weird so it’s tough to benchmark, but I personally think it would make sense if every Fifth Ideal involved the knight embodying the ideal to an extent. So for the Windrunners that’s pretty much Honor.

[@oswinhull4203]

Moash and Kaladin don't want to fight each other. They've literally had 3 opportunities to fight and they haven't. Kaladin doesn't want to accept that he can't save Moash. Moash wants Kaladin to help him upend the social order that makes life hell for the lower class and groups that are discriminated against.

[@Superskirtskirt]

Just gotta point out. Odium's nature is really just passion. Kaladin's struggle has always been around him caring too much. Kaladin taking up Odium sounds bad for a back half element buuuut not if Syl is Honor and they are able to join together like Ruin and Preservation. Honor + Odium = Justice? Plus a way to do Syladin without being too weird.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Odium is an actual word and it’s not JUST passion, but I do see him becoming Passion later on as a very realistic option! And yes, I love the Justice (or Judgment) theory! But I could see it requiring Cultivation as well.

[@Rkcuddles]

Great discussion. Thank you.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@Rkcuddles glad you enjoyed it! I’ll be doing a similar one with new guests post-Wind & Truth

[@dmarie74]

Kaladin is absolutely not going to die in some grand sacrifice. That is a step backwards for Kaladins development.

[@CosmereReviews]

Great video guys! Loved the discussions and theories 😊

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for tuning in

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

On reading things in a series out of order. Its a lot more common in other mediums, I think. You used to only be able to watch whatever episode was on TV. Im sure we all did that as a kid, right? I feel like that happens a lot with blockbuster franchises, too. As for me, the one time I recall doing it is with a videogame. I picked up a used copy of Soul Reaver 2 for the PS2 back in the day. It looked really cool and, as a kid, i had limited time and moneh so I figured itd be better to jump in here than wait and possibly forget about it. Totally worth it. Some of my favorite games ever!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@TheDiabeticGameMaster yeah the serialized format of storytelling has become much bigger with streaming

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

Some of these are just my theories, I haven't seen much of them in other places, but I do enjoy them. Honor is restored. Odium is defeated and Dalinar takes up both shards, becoming War. He looks out across the Cosmere and his final line will be: "I will unite them". This turns into a war between Roshar and Scadrial. The two sides that have been established through 12 books. Harmony might get integrated with Ambition, with the theme of absorbing the enemy as with Ruin. I see Harmony+Ambition=Sovereignty, and suddenly Sazed can act. I believe that Navani might become something similar to a new Raboniel, controlling the base that is Urithiru. I also like the that Urithiru is a perfect opposite of Kredik Shaw, the Lord Ruler's palace. We see in The Sunlit Man that Scadrians still seem to be assholes (even though they have some kind of non intervention theme that could fit a Sovereign) so I don't think that it will be good vs bad, also because Sanderson doesn't do simple... Minor things - I believe that Adolin and Shallan will be part of a resistance movement against War. Possibly together with the splinter group of Listener's. But they might also just be loosely connected. This would also probably be on the side of Cultivation. Lift might be on their side too. - War might try to conquer Sel but will be stuck around Elantris since they are so powerful at their own terrain. Sel is the Cosmere version of an oil field, if they learn how to safely tap the Dor. They won't be able to let Sel be. - The Ghostbloods might become the agent that brings Ambition to Harmony. - In RoW, Syl talks about wanting to make windspren more intelligent. She does this just before (there is one chapter between them) Sja Anats chapter where she discusses that she makes spren more intelligent. I am not sure what this means but it is very interesting to me. Both her and Kaladin's arcs and interests here are very Connection heavy, as Syl also becomes more human. - Kaladin and Leshwi becomes a couple... They already respect each other and enjoy their interactions. If it turns out that Kaladin learns how to heal Connectivity problems, the biggest problem among the Fused, Leshwi will be in Awe. Leshwi also has friends among the spren, Syl being so old might mean that they have common friends.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@pontuslindheohlsson2184 most of these (if not all) are storming epic! Wouldn’t mind these happening at all! Only thing is Ambition would need to be healed like Honor since they’re both splintered.

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Szeth also a character based on redemption and yes it wasn't his fault and he was being manipulated by his trust in his people that he did wrong. Currently redeeming himself from the lives he took and death he brought. Almost killing dalinar several times to protecting and putting his faith in him as a sky breakers

[@TheSandbox_Official]

What do you think his 5th ideal will be?

[@cookiediangelo8511]

5th ideal is you can’t kill to protect. I think it makes the most sense for Windrunners, kaladin’s arc, and thematically. The oaths go in order, protect, protect those you hate, accept there are those you can not protect. The next step is that you can not kill anyone, not even to protect. Windrunners protect everyone, even those they hate. It makes sense logically as the fifth oath. Rind runners are soldiers, so swearing not to kill is very difficult for them, especially since they will be put into situations where they need to kill. That is why most will never make it to the fifth oath. It means a tremendous sacrifice. And that is why it works. Not killing doesn’t work in war, it is a grand ideal only those at the top can swear to, and fifth oath radiants are at the point where they are somewhat above the usual rules. It just seems grand and difficult enough for it to make sense. Next, kaladin’s arc. Kaladin and lirin have been debating for years about killing to protect. It’s honestly THE debate kaladin has had in his head. Surgeon or soldier. Lirin has taught kaladin’s very ideal up till now. Protect(heal), protect those you hate (Sergio a heal anyone and everyone regardless of what they’ve done), accept there are those you can’t protect (callouses). The other lesson lirin has been pounding into kal is that you can’t kill to protect. Kaladin said at the end of row that they are both right, in their own ways. I think this is the case. Kaladin was right to kill as a soldier and as a windrunner who needed to protect, but a fifth ideal Windrunner does not kill. So when he swears that ideal, then that will be right. This is also where kaladin’s seems to be going. He is not a soldier anymore; he has retired as high marshal, so he is actually in the perfect position to swear not to kill. I know a lot of people hate this theory because they hate lirin, but it makes the most sense. Also, maybe swearing the fifth ideal will give the cohesion serge an upgrade that will be necessary to heal Ishar. It’s been set up as something only kal can do, and as a fifth oath radiant he might be the only one who can. I think having his other serge be the one to save the day would be good since the books have kinda ignored cohesion since kaladin only uses it when his gravitation isn’t working.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That’s so good! Pretty much “I must protect everyone” it sounds like. Such a solid theory staring us all right in the face! Awesome write up, thanks for sharing! Edit to add: however, this would mean Lirin is right, no? He was always right in this debate if this is the case.

[@cookiediangelo8511]

No. He was not right. In an ideal world, you can not kill to protect. But this is not an ideal world. Radiants have to deal will voidbringers and singers who will kill. If Windrunner a did not kill, they could not protect. Windrunner are the protectors, and are the core soldiers. They get their hands dirty fighting to protect. They need to kill, and it is right for a windrunner to kill. However, a fifth ideal radiant is above that. On the scale of “I am the law” is “I do not kill to protect” or “I protect everyone”. A fifth ideal radiant is above this stuff. Once a windrunner swears his fifth ideal, then it is wrong for them to kill. A fifth ideal radiant LIVES their ideals. So real world stuff do not apply, the most important thing is their oaths. So they are both right. Kaladin was not wrong to kill. He had sworn to protect, and if he did not kill, he would not have protected. He would instead have effectively been a neutral party who isn’t protecting anyone but himself. But a fifth ideal radiant lives their ideals, and so they must protect everyone. It makes the most sense. In a way, swearing the fifth oath means you won’t be able to protect the way you once did. You can’t choose sides, you protect everyone. That is why the fourth ideal is to accept there are this you can not protect. It’s to prepare you for the fifth ideal. The fourth ideal always felt a little off for me, it’s important to acccept you can’t protect everyone, but fourth ideal important? But if swearing the fifth ideals means you can’t protect everyone, then it makes perfect sense why the one before swearing not to kill would be accepting you can’t protect everyone. I 100% believe this, but most people I talk to hate this theory. But like what else could it be? It’s too perfect!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@cookiediangelo8511 Yeah man, I think you've struck gold here. I really like it! Will just come down to how Sanderson writes it and uses it for Kaladin's arc and the future Windrunner corps.

[@IamHattman]

Personally i think the contest will be the arc through to the middle of the book at the latest. Theres just so much book there and several of the goals the characters have just cant reasonably be done inside of 10 days. So im expecting some sort of switch up thst makes the contest be resolved early and lets things continue past that.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That’s what I thought might happen until Bookborn claimed otherwise

[@jarrodwakefield4992]

I needed this

[@TheSandbox_Official]

😍😁 glad we could help!

[@Sheija]

The loophole is that if either party breaks any of their terms, the contract is void - I think. So Todium (which is indeed a horrible fandom name) will manipulate Dalinar into breaking it in some way.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I can definitely see that happening. But I don’t really see the point in Odium manipulating Dalinar to break it, given that Odium breaking it results in the same outcome.

[@CrownlessStudios]

​@TheSandbox_Official breaking it would weaken Odium. Men can break their word in a way that Shards can't. Not saying I agree with OP, but they do have a point.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@CrownlessStudios fair enough 😅

[@MareKholin]

This is my theory: Kaladin fifth ideal will be “I will protect even if I have to kill the ones I love” and then kills Moash! (I know he doesn’t necessarily loves moash but he was like a best friend ¿?)

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Hmmmm, it doesn't technically contradict his past oaths, but I'm not so sure about this one. But hey, I won't write it off just yet!

[@quackmemes5410]

I was also thinking something along these lines. It’s either he accepts that there is no way to protect by killing or he accepts that to protect you sometimes must kill. I am leaning towards the latter but I’m like 55-45 on this

[@KALtheLostie108]

I love the Shallan and Gavinor theories, and the Sword Adolin and Radiant Maya one😅. As for character deaths, I think that Adolin dies so that Shallan can become a worldhopper. Something is going to happen with Kal and Syl. Whether that's one or both of them dying or one of them becoming Honor. Actually, what if Kal becomes Honor while bonded to Syl, and that makes it so that they both are Honor??? They could be named like Duality or something. But by far, my biggest theory is with Dalinar: He loses the contest, is forced to aerve Odium, and then becomes a VILLAIN in the back half! He would be redeemed at some point of course, but I think that would be gut-wrenching

[@TheSandbox_Official]

All good thoughts! I'm just so excited to find out what crazy twist(s) BrandoSando has in store for us!

[@huntersteed2880]

My theories: The battle of champions happens in Part 2. Dalinar ascends to become Honor. A new oath pact is formed. Kaladin becomes one of the new heralds. Adolin dies.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I also thought the contest happening mid-way through or even earlier would be such a sneaky and interesting twist. But it does sound like it will be saved for the end. Probably not the very end tho cuz we need closure on arcs and story threads, as well as teases for the future. All the rest I can see happening, but please no NOT ADOLIN!

[@KALtheLostie108]

Imagine if the contest is chapter 1 lol

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@KALtheLostie108 That'd be hilarious, but the synopsis confirms that's not the case

[@carsonhenderson]

Other than dan wells, who did they say would have books written in the cosmere?

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@carsonhenderson I believe Isaac Stewart is working on one slowly now.

[@bensmith6004]

Sunlit Man was actually the very first Cosmere novel I read, a few months ago. I didn’t find it at all difficult to follow. I noticed references of course but the plot and characters were easy to process and it whet my interest in reading the rest. I’ve since made my way through all the secret project books, all current Stormlight Archives, Elantris, and the first Mistborn trilogy. I’m currently on the second. lol. Love the world building.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@bensmith6004 that’s awesome to hear! I still think it’s entirely risky but sounds like you’re not one to be easily discouraged!

[@bensmith6004]

@@TheSandbox_Official lol thanks. I suppose I am. I treated it like starting any other new world. If the writer is worth their salt, there will be hints and hooks all throughout, no matter where I start. It should grab me and push me to investigate more. Sanderson obviously did the job here as I’ve been through some dozen books now. 😝

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@bensmith6004 well said! Which did you enjoy more between Mistborn & Stormlight? And did Sunlit Man have any affect on that in your opinion?

[@bensmith6004]

@@TheSandbox_Official Stormlight, though the second Mistborn trilogy is coming a close second. I think Sunlit Man probably had an affect, since once I saw Sigzil’s name, I wanted to start connecting the dots. I did reread the end chapters of Sunlit Man after I caught up on Stormlight Archives, since I could appreciate the value of Aux’s sacrifice on another level.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@bensmith6004 yeah that’s what I would expect. Stormlight is my favorite too, and I started with that. I think Era 2 is SUPER underrated! I love it so much and probably enjoyed it more than Era 1 if I’m being honest with myself. Just making sure cuz you said “second trilogy”, but you’re aware it’s 4 books right? As for Aux, I’m super excited to finally meet him in Stormlight and see what makes Sigzil change Orders!

[@sandrar4981]

I love some of your theories. Syl becoming Honor could be great. Also, yes, for Hoid's truth just because I want to read one 😂

[@TheSandbox_Official]

❤️ glad your enjoyed them! Do you have any hopefuls for Wind & Truth?

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

I just like the term "Storm Mother". It gets me excited, for some reason, lol.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@TheDiabeticGameMaster it’s a twist I could see Sanderson doing 😅

[@nelkabosal]

Referencing prerelease for SP#5 at bottom I think Todium's comments on interplanetary war is closely related to . . . "the big baddie"/conflict in Lost Metal. So I think that'll get connected to Roshar somehow. And "Todium-to-Roshar" will be similar to the "Taravangian-to-Kharbranth". SP#5 . . . . . . . . . . I think "War-Tower" light, and "corrupted" spren and singer-human allies will definitely be a part of space-age Roshar, maybe even "standard" for them.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

All good thoughts! Excited to see how it all plays out!

[@Degrad21]

it is so funny to hear "normal" fans talking about cosmere magics. As a reader I understood not more than you did, but since watching the 17th-shard podcasts I understand soooo much more about this and now some of this sounds as if youbare truly lost😂 (no offense, as I said, I did not understand more when I read it)

[@TheSandbox_Official]

We had a good variety of knowledge in this group (some Cosmere veterans and rookies). But yeah the 17th shard and Coppermind are on another level! Happy to talk more in depth theories here if you’d like!

[@fether666]

Fifth Ideal - I will trust others to do what I know needs to be done

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Not a bad leadership quality

[@Disti23]

Szeth with Nightblood is the best champion.

[@jamesporrell5687]

Windrunner 5th ideal: I will decide WHO is worthy of protection (rather than just protecting the 'weak' or 'innocent' as no human is truly innocent) Dalinar will lost the contest, and become beholden to Odium. But since Odium is now held by a principled man (not a good person but not evil) instead of Rayse, TOdium will one day be redeemed and Dalinar will again become an instrumental figure in the battle against TRUE evil. Dalinar and Taravangian started as friends and they'll end as friends.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah I like the idea that Dalinar & Taravangian will retool Odium for good in the end. All Taravangian has ever wanted was to keep Kharbranth safe and be friends with Dalinar 😅

[@TheDietDuff]

I would like Moash to speak the 1st ideal but have the words not accepted right before he dies

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That would be hilariously brutal! I love it!

[@kyle2952]

What iff the 5th ideal atleast of a Windrunner is not something Kaladin says but all his Windrunner s say the 5th ideal to him

[@zyrain]

Moash shows us what happens when you try to heal mental illness with magic

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Ooh great point! Hadn’t considered that actually

[@silvertongue.242_99]

I don't want to see kaladin because of how much the shard changes and influence on it's vessel. Its thematically like nice but Kal that's my boy

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@silvertongue.242_99 hahaha I can’t blame you there! Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I’m preparing myself for his sweet demise

[@CunnininnuC]

Re: making up names for characters who have names that are hard to pronounce - my friend and I will only refer to Raoden as “Slime Prince” because neither of us can remember his real name and there is ample description of the grime all over Elantris

[@TheSandbox_Official]

😂😂😂 that’s gold!

[@Radiant26]

I don’t know if this is a theory that’s out there or if it’s just me. Moash has pointed to the fact that you can’t kill Kaladin. I think the only way that Kaladin can die is by his own hand or perhaps sacrifice himself. Which I believe is coming in this book.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Man that would be brutal and heartbreaking!

[@JasonEvetts-o1m]

i understand that you can kill to protect.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Simple yet effective

[@JEDSaje15]

Something that's never happened that I can recall. Is Adolin has never said the oaths. I don't believe we've seen anyone Bonded to a dead blade having ever said the oaths. I think thats the simple secret to reviving them

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Sky breakers are less flexible since it is based off laws but it has a personal touch as it gets to higher ideals

[@silvertongue.242_99]

I never thought shallan situation was magically based at all just thought she was freaking out. It did kinda come out of nowhere for me

[@Zachdiditx]

Spencer is throwing me off here. Firstly the Herald's insanity coming from magical reasonings. Sure there could be a little of that but we're forgetting the elephant in the room here where they spent thousands of years running in terror, being captured, and tortured on Braize. Like that setup may be magical but what happened was most definitely mental. Now onto Honor becoming "Survival". Naw. Shard name changed happened once when two were combined. The shard guides the person not the other way around. Ati was described as kind an generous. Ruin over time morphed him. Like a certain Terrisman is being morphed by his shards. Like Taravangian is being morphed by Odium.

[@davidsonderby3676]

Why is no one theorizing about the fact that the contest was with Rayze and not Taravangian? Taravangian has the power to save the world now by killing rayze and ascending to Odium. Everyone I've watched just takes it for granted that Taravangian must have the same goals as rayze. But he doesn't. His original reason to seek Cultivation was in order to save the world from what is coming. Whether or not her boon/curse still affects him now that he is a shard is a question to be discussed. But either way it means that everything we think about Odium and the desolation to come can go in an entirely different direction.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I think you have a fair point. Personally I think it’d be a bit anticlimactic and unexpected to pull the “10 days to decide Roshar’s fate” rug out from underneath us. Sanderson has set expectations and made a promise, so I think the duel is much more likely to happen than not. That said…I definitely think we’ll get some fun surprises given that nobody knows about the swap yet!

[@davidsonderby3676]

@@TheSandbox_Official it'll still probably be a significant event, but whatever Rayse was planning is completely out the window. I think everyone just overhyped the 'duel of the fates' when the literal climax of the book was taravangian slaying rayse and ascending. Remember, Cultivation tricked the shard of Odium into choosing him due to her curse, because he was dumb and emotional when he picked it up. She may have literally foiled the shards intent by giving it an incompatible vessel. Hence why my guess is taravangian either loses on purpose, or reveals himself and calls a truce, where they then face the true villian built up in ROW - Ishar.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@davidsonderby3676 from what I remember, Taravangian taking up Odium wasn’t originally part of BrandoSando’s plan. At least not for RoW. He just realized when writing that the pieces were all in the right place and so he went for it. I think the Shard (not Vessel) wields more control/influence than we realize and is gonna suck Taravangian into it.

[@drewmur]

Dalinar did not mean to kill his wife. Moash knew exactly what he was doing when he killed Teft. Also, as far as the Anakin angle, Luke may think of him as redeemed. I doubt people like Han or the rest of the galaxy think of him as redeemed.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Fair enough on Dalinar/Moash. As for the Anakin angle, yeah I actually like that. There's no taking away the atrocities that both have done. But their relationship to Luke/Kaladin are really the only things that matter to them, so being redeemed in their eyes alone is enough to strike that emotional chord with us the audience, without belittling them as a "villain".

[@janwouter5215]

Szeth is on his personal quest which means he is past the Dalinar ideal. This is revealed at the end of ROW

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah, that’s where he’s headed in W&T. I think we touch on that later in the discussion.

[@FloweyTheGod9821]

Video idea if you havnt done it already: All episodes of the cuphead show ranked

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I haven’t seen it. You think I’d enjoy? I must admit it’s peaked my interest in the past.

[@DerekAGilbert]

More of this.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

It's coming, good sir!

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Not to be a moash defender but he used odium power and influence to take away the pain from the decisions he makes. So that's why he hasn't been affected by his crimes against his friends

[@DeadlyLazerpunk]

I highly doubt Adolin will die Bro has the flattest character arc I've ever seen It would do nothing in terms of emotional payoff in either direction to kill him off

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I agree! Killing him would just be male fridging, no?

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Emerald sea like you technically can start with it but there is literally things you should know more of or you would be so lost. Like some of statements from characters are very confusing without prior knowledge. Like yes 90% of the book you good but that 10% is big because you'll feel lost at points. I shouldn't say big just confusing for like a second so not too bad

[@silvertongue.242_99]

But yeah I think it's because I knew more about the cosmere. It would have me wanting to know more if I first read it. I guess lost is a strong word. it was a bit difficult for me to realize og this that well one part of tress story but it clicked on Soren bond. I agree you definitely can and it's a good story without the giga brain world hoppers expositing 😂😂

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Book born is spot on with her views on them as starting books. But I am just finishing the emerald sea. You can totally start there not really an issue once you think on it

[@jamesgarner738]

"Unite them" - y'all forgetting the ONE mantra that has been present throughout every book. I don't think it's possible to unite the cognitive realm and the physical or spiritual realm like folks are talking about here. Unite them - the tones, the rhythms, the the lights of Honor and Odium. Navani is an Bondsmith now, and she knows how to combine Honor and Odium's rhythms. Dalinar is not going to be the champion, he's not capable of uniting the shards as he is now, or will be in 10 days. Navani is capable of it, though. The rhythm of war will become manifest when they (Honor and Odium) are united. What will be the consequences? What will become of Dalinar and Taravangian once they are united? Only Brandon knows.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Definitely think that’s a theory for the back-half, but love the Navani idea!

[@nyaatama8529]

Funny thing, if the Cryptics sent Testament and Pattern to Shallan, did they not conspire to start the desolation.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

🤔

[@Sheija]

On the Spiritual Realm I’m guessing you guys didn’t read the pre-release chapters? 😂 Cause SPOILERS: We are going to the Spiritual Realm, it is a place, and it sounds very interesting. Time runs backward and all that.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Haha yeah I mentioned at the beginning that we were avoiding those chapters to avoid spoilers. Luckily, I’ve read them tho 😅

[@adso9323]

My crackpot theory is Kaladins 5th ideal will be come along with the secrets of the Recreance and be like "i will protect others from us/me"

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Ooh interesting. Almost like “I’ll only fight if I have to” sort of thing?

[@quackmemes5410]

Too similar to lopen’s third ideal imo

[@buffasa1]

Theory. Dalinar lose and forced to break bond which leaves the stormfather open. As he is the cognitive shadow of honor it will be a big sliver to pick up. I think that while in shinovar kaladin will grab the remaining honor blades aka slivers of honor and bring them back. I think between the blades which are self awar slivers and the stormfather he will ascend to honor. Dalinar will become a fused anlld lose but kaladin will pick up honor. Aka bittersweet ending. You heard it here 1st Kaladins arc is coming to an end bookborn. Its time to go. In secret project 4, sigzil thinks he sees kaladin and that would only he possible under certain circumstances to allow a crazy long life considering the fact of how far in the future that book took place.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Solid theories imo. I will say that that Sig was going through something and seeing a ghost of someone he used to look up to is also a reasonable explanation.

[@ammod4827]

the only redemption i want from moash is him turning around and realizing the horrors he's committed. eternally punishing himself for his atrocities. i dont want him to be forgiven, i dont want bridge four nor kaladin to help him. I don't want him to suddenly change sides nor sacrifice himself as a form of atonement. he should suffer out his punishment.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Beautiful. Would love to see it too honestly.

[@williamkeaton5091]

There won’t be breath resurrection because there is not enough setting up breath in Stormlight

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I think it’s a possibility if Sanderson truly wants to. But I’m also not against him saving it for the back half. However he has admitted that “the gloves are off”. And after many books within the series utilizing these characters such as Vasher, Vivenna, & Nightblood, it’s certainly not off the table. There were people saying he couldn’t use Nightblood to kill Odium/Rayse ahead of Rhythm of War, yet here we are.

[@ZeeGoes]

Based on the chapters released, I guess that Wit figures out what Todium's plan is and they win the contest but as soon as they believe they have some respite, Cultivation kills Todium and turns out to be the 'bad' guy with the long con. Maybe she played Honor until he spread himself too thin and died. Convinced the radiants to break their oaths and capture Ba-Ado Mishram which led to the recreance. In some ways, the recreance forced humans to innovate and improve while totally culling the growth of the Parshendi mentally...but at the same time, they got a similar treatment to what she did to Dalinar by wiping away the memory of his wife. In this case, their entire sense of self got wiped off and now, that they have their minds back, most of the once war-focused Parshendi would rather live a peaceful life and not continue the cycle of desolations that their ancestors were stuck in. I think she chose Taravangian as Odium because she was at an impasse with Rayse...her goal might be to prune the never-bending or evolving shards and improve them by combining them all. We know that Honor + Odium = War, but what is War + Cultivation?

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I don’t think we know Honor + Odium = War. We only know that their lights combined create Warlight. But as for your theory, I can definitely see Cultivation turning and doing a long con if the Contest is middle of the book. Otherwise, I think we’ll have to wait a few more books. Great theory tho. And awesome write up!

[@talorhall9755]

Oh I am okay with this theory. Spoilers for all Mistborn . . . . . . If Cultivation actually did this, I’d be more okay with Harmony/Sazed/possible Discord somehow destroying her and adding the Cultivation intent to the list which I think would actually make Sazed more easily balance the Ruin and Preservation intents.

[@DarthRellek55]

I dont understand 2 to rambles entire thought process around Ishar he literally says "I know how to fix the Heralds"

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Does he? Even I had forgotten that. Hard to remember all the things 😅

[@evanspeterg]

Moash will sacrifice himself to save Kaladin from Todium.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah I expect Moash to do something like this in his final moments

[@IndiaTides]

I cared about Szeth more than Elhokar.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Both such great characters given the roles they serve, but I agree with you here. Looking forward to this next book for more of his POV!

[@IndiaTides]

@@TheSandbox_Official 🙂🙂🙂

[@tomcunningham7514]

I had a friend tell me a theory that kaladin will take on the shards of odium and honour and become war

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah it's a popular one. I'm not sure if they would make War though. The theory states it due to Warlight but none of the Lights are named after the Shards (and vice versa). Personally, my little theory on the RoShards (ba-dum-ts) is that Szeth might end up with all 3 as he shares a lot of similarities with another Shard in the Cosmere from a different series (iykyk) and he'll become either Justice or Judgment. And I don't think Szeth's 5th Ideal will be "I am law" but "I am justice". My crackpot theory for the day 😅

[@bennparrish8556]

The ending didn't pan out just because they couldn't keep meeting to play the game.

[@andrewberenson5717]

My wild theory. Dalinar reforms Honor, kills Taravangian and combines the newly formed Shard of Honor with Odium resulting in combined Shard of Order. The combo of Odium and Honor could be War. War has the violent/hatred nature of Odium. But War also needs an element of stateliness. War is more than chaos; organized, systematic manner to defeat your enemy. For an army to properly conduct a war, it must have the element of order. This is the stately element of the combined Shard But I see Order as the flip side of War. The passion element that Rayse believed that Odium contained can combine with the need to use a military might to protect the populace equals Order. Dalinar's moral character is such that he wants peace. He would see the power of the KRs and other coalition forces as a deterrent (In the same vein as the belief during the Cold War that a strong US military deployed throughout the world would serve as a deterrent against the military inclination of communism. Here we get the Shard Order. Yet Dalinar must remain ever vigilant. If he starts to revert back to the Blackthorn of pre Evi's death, then the Shard can transform to the Shard of War.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

A few things: 1) Honor and Odium definitely wouldn’t make War so I agree with you there. 2) Order sounds so cool and I’ve never heard that one before! 3) Wouldn’t the opposite of War be Peace? But I guess I see your point in that War is chaotic whereas peacetime regains Order 4) Dalinar having to manage his temper lest he become War is a cool idea

[@valliyarnl]

If the theorised Kaladin/Syl relationship happens I’m gonna cry and ask for a refund 😭😅

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Hahaha but what KIND of relationship? 😅

[@valliyarnl]

@@TheSandbox_Official some people think they should be romantically linked and I just can’t get behind it

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Oh god no!

[@chadmunson4129]

Caledon versus moachs. Dalenar versus odium.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I think we most assuredly will get variations for both of these

[@fether666]

Kalladin dies to give Moash a chance, then Moash becomes a MC for books 6-10

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Woah, easy there 😂

[@KALtheLostie108]

I will strangle Sanderson if this happens

[@stevenhedge2850]

way to kill a fanbase

[@DarthRellek55]

The way they say Adolyn infuriates me

[@TheSandbox_Official]

😂😂😂

[@MareKholin]

Comparing Dalinar to Moash is nonsense. Dalinar was an awful person, we all know that but he never intentionally killed a friend or ally. He even hates the idea of killing Gavilar. But on the other hand Moash tried to kill Kaladin (his best friend) and then Teft (his other freaking best friend) 🙃

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Hmmm Moash had always felt conflicted though, up until he gave away his emotions to Odium. So I can see that argument still holding water, personally.

[@quackmemes5410]

Don’t forget that dalinar almost DID kill Gavilar. Also don’t forget what dalinar would’ve become without cultivations help

[@mndrew1]

I'm sorry @bookborn; but what??? You think Dalinar can be redeemed and his worst crime is burning his wife? He locked the entire city and burned it to the ground with everyone inside. Knowingly. That his wife also died was a minor accidental side effect. There ain't no coming back from that.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

You don’t think he’s been redeemed already? He’s definitely working on it and becoming a better man

[@mndrew1]

He destroyed an entire city and all the people inside and he went to 'the old magic' to forget - his wife. He's never once expressed regret over killing all those people because he was mad that their lord outsmarted him. What's redemptive about that?

[@Degrad21]

​@@mndrew1the funny thing is: for most people dalinar had redemption. But for some, he had not. That is super cool and exciting because the fandom is reacting like a society would. Some people will give you a second chance, some never will. You are the first peerson I meet that does not feel like Dalinar has been redeemed, but I know there are more people with that opinion out there.

[@Journeyman2585]

More views than subs. Damn.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Haha it’s a welcomed rarity when it happens! Thanks for watching, and love your profile pic! Perrin’s the best!

[@Degrad21]

What is this todium nonsense, it is taravodium, nobody does say todium

[@TheSandbox_Official]

😂😂😂 on Reddit they call him T’Odium

[@Degrad21]

@@TheSandbox_Official wtf is wrong with people

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@Degrad21 😂😂😂

[@drewmur]

Moash CANNOT be redeemed.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

👀

[@IndiaTides]

Moash did nothing wrong. Kaladin changed from dark eye to light eye while Moash kept loyalty intact.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

There are easier ways to put a target on your back, but this is still one of them...😂😂😂

[@IndiaTides]

@@TheSandbox_Official Lol, Let me elaborate- I think Kaladin forgot about the discrimination after his elevation. He fights internally about his identity but the way he doesn't fight for the ordinary Dark Eyes's rights is what I care about. At least Moash didn't change his opinion because he had some good experience with few light eyes.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@IndiaTides Yeah I think we've seen him struggle with his internal dialogue regarding this change of "race" ("class"?), but not enough to pursue change. Hoping we can see more of that ideology later on in the series!

[@MareKholin]

He tried to kill both Kaladin and TEFT!! Both friends of him.