Wind & Truth Theorycrafting (feat. Bookborn, 2ToRamble, & SRS)

[@TheSandbox_Official]

What is your craziest, spiciest, most WILD theory?

[@CosmereReviews]

The cognitive and physical realm combine! We know Ishar is trying to bring the cognitive manifestations of spren into the physical realm, and pattern states that spren(cognitive) and humans(physical) are 2 halves.

[@Panamaniac3D]

Pretty sure it is wrong, but sometimes I kinda wonder if Shallan is Chanarach rather than her mother. I am pretty confident in the Shallan’s mom is a herald theory, especially knowing that Taln didn’t break, but on this reread I’m seeing things where I could see Shallan being the herald. Her brothers are definitely real since Mraize kidnaps them, but perhaps Shallan/Chana killed her child and took her place with illusions. We know she is super traumatized and hides everything about her past, is a super unreliable narrator, so maybe she is fabricating all of this due to her herald madness and the influence of the Unmade we know about. Like I said, I think her mom is the herald and Shallan killing her sent her back to Braize, but just little things are popping out on this reread.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@Panamaniac3D I honestly wouldn’t be surprised, I remember thinking this too before I heard the theory actually. But I believe there was something that contradicts it though I can’t recall what it was.

[@Panamaniac3D]

@@TheSandbox_Officialthere probably is. I bet Sanderson had left things intentionally ambiguous to not nail things down. I know he said he did that for Taravangian taking up Odium’s shard and didn’t decide to do it until he got to Rhythm of War.

[@dominictyler3008]

Odium's champion is going to be Gavilar. Odium highjacked the burgeoning bond he had to the Stormfather which gives us the Stormfaker and after Szeth killed Gavilar old Rayse kept him round as a cognitive shadow and will bring him back for the contest

[@2ToRamble]

What a blast! Thanks so much for having us on - great chatting

[@TheSandbox_Official]

One of the best times and conversations I’ve had! Anytime, anywhere, I’m down for Round 2! Thanks again for joining 😁

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

In regards to Shallans final truth. I really want the theory of Chanarach being Shallans mother to be true. That also means that she is back on Roshar. I want them to have a conversation where she aknowledges that her killing Chanarach brought the True Desolation, but... I want them to see the truth, it was a child defending herself from being murdered. I want Shallan's final truth to be: "It wasn't my fault."

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@pontuslindheohlsson2184 perfect! No notes!

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

@@TheSandbox_Official Also, thank you for this video, it was very interesting to listen too! I don't have any friends that are as Sanderson nerdy as I so listening to you was wonderful!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@pontuslindheohlsson2184 oh that’s great to hear! Hoping you find some Sanderfan friends soon! I’ll be doing a post-W&T theory video in January-ish with some other Cosmere content creators so be on the lookout after you’ve read it! 😁

[@grc3rb]

I legitimately teared up reading it wasn’t my fault, and it moved me to my soul 🥺

[@westonhutson1894]

Isn't that a little too much odium-esque? Maybe I'm wrong but I think it will be something else for her final truth.

[@MareKholin]

Imagine if Odium comes to the contest and says “ready for the cooking battle?” And Dalinar is like WHAT lol

[@TheSandbox_Official]

😂😂😂 Rock, we need you!

[@TheSkyGoat]

Dalinar laughs and says 'MY CHAMPION IS.... ROCK!!!!'

[@xJupy]

Something important to remember about the "Shallan's mom being a herald" theory is that Odium through the Everstorm already found a way to circumvent the oathpact and bring his spren back/resurrect the fused. That means that Shallan's mom dying and then giving in before Taln was probably the only possible way they could have gotten Taln back on Roshar, meaning she didn't really start the end of the world, she helped save it.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Ooh I’ll have to look further into that timeline. I’m still a bit iffy on the Fused stuff. But that’s a GREAT twist/reveal regarding that theory! Thanks for sharing

[@hubrisnxs2013]

That's true...but remember Taln came back at the end of WoK, while the ever storm did not come about until the end of WoR. It's not much of a time difference, but it's significant enough, I think

[@IamHattman]

​@@hubrisnxs2013 We just know that Taln was found then. He could have been wandering around the mountains or something for who knows how long.

[@CoconutMigrating]

@@IamHattmanthat only increases the time gap further.

[@carlsmith4568]

Good point. A Taln/Shallan scene would be amazing!

[@alexandtahlla2865]

Odium: “I’m going to pick a toddler to be my champion, surely Dalinar won’t be able to kill a family member.” Dalinar: “hold my firemoss.” (Uses his powers to pull the Thrill back up from the ocean) “the blackthorn is back, baby.”

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Nooooo poor lil Gav! 😂😂😂

[@andrewberenson5717]

I love the 5th ideal Trevor proposed. Kaladin needs to accept that others can protect him.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Thank you man! Yeah I definitely think Kaladin either 1) learning to put his own oxygen mask on before assisting others (can’t save people if you’re dead) or 2) teaching others how to protect themselves are the only ideals that naturally continue his arc and elevate his mindset, therapeutically speaking 😅

[@mish2637]

I feel like that was kind of already touched on in oathbringer in the scene when Kaladin fails to swear the fourth ideal before the battle in Thaylen city. I believe Syl said something about it, and Kaladin kind of accepted it in the battle that followed. So I honestly don't think it's a major enough struggle of his for it to be an ideal.

[@danielp.robertson869]

Have you all seen Sanderson's writing lectures on KZbin for his BYU class? I remember years ago he talked about giving characters a flaw. Their arc isn't about defeating the flaw but learning to live with it. I think he gave the example of depression and said youndont have the character heal from depression then they are never depressed again, but have them learn how to cope with it. I don't know if WoK was even out yet when this lecture was recorded.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yes, I remember that now that you say it! Loved those lectures! That’s why I really like the idea of the 5th Ideal just being about coping and learning to value your life and pursue overall health.

[@SilverlightGuidetotheCosmere]

Spiciest theory: Wyndl is Odium's champion. The cultivationspren gets so tired of the BS and decides he's going cultivate the ending of Roshar that he wants.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

First of all, how dare you. Second of all, that’s hilarious. 😂

[@valliyarnl]

After hanging out with Lift I’d become Odiums champion too 😂

[@nihftyy]

I always knew he was a pesky voidbringer!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Woah woah woah, how dare you! Lift is Roshar’s national treasure!

[@valliyarnl]

@@TheSandbox_Official haha I know I know 🙈🙈🙈 Hate to be contrarian haha

[@IamHattman]

For the 5th ideal, look at what Kaladin is striggling with in the story: he has a hard time with knowing that the other side is mostly just normal Singers. All of his exsisting ideals have to do with protection in a universal sense. The more oaths he swears the more likely he is to get stuck between two oaths. What we see from the Skybreakers seems to indicate that each order is the same. Each oath requires you to have more perspective to then need/be able to swear the next, which in turn creats space for conflict within your oaths. The fifth oath seems to provide a way to tie it together and relieve that pressure while also somehow upping the ante. Based on those things Kal's 5th oath has to be something about choosing who he does and does not protect, and by extension that there are those he should protect, could protect, and who in protecting he will do more harm, and that it is correct for him to make those decisions.

[@morsumbra9692]

5th ideal of sky breakers is "i become law" maybe Kaladins is "i am redemption" and he can't get there till he helps Adolin deal with his oopsie and deals with Moash

[@thomastrovato8672]

Kaladin’s 5th Ideal: I accept that I must protect myself before I can protect others. Kaladin needs to accept that he is worthy, he himself, and that must come first, before he can fully help others.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Love it!

[@Escendrix]

“I will allow others to protect me”

[@mish2637]

@@Escendrix that's not the same, the first one proposed has an agency to it that is probably more important for a mental health journey

[@serpentious]

Also my take on Kaladin's/WR 5th ideal, it matches the loftyness of the Skybreakers and the theme that the Windrunner ideals are the surgeon rules Lirin tried to teach Kaladin. It also fits in the closure, self-preservation angle you were going for. Ok to set the background, The Surgeon and The Windrunner save others, but Kaladin has always been more lofty than his father, and we see with the Skybreakers it is both an inversion of the previous ideals and surpassing them. Windrunner 5th ideal 'Some people don't deserve saving.' Now imagine that in a scene with Moash (refer to my other post where Moash uses his psychopathy to help Kaladin). Also Bookborn the other shard name is Era one, it's one of the lines in the prophecy for the hero of ages. Some people miss it in the audiobook because it capitalised on the page.

[@woofergranade2044]

Are we just going to breeze by the fact that Cultivation wanted Taravangion to carry Odium with “honor”?

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Oooh 🤔

[@StrawMan1235]

I think there is a chance we see Kelsier attempt to contact Shallan via seon. And since Kalak now has that Seon things will go badly for Kalak.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@StrawMan1235 oooooh 👀

[@saki1333]

Great point

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

Kelsier has already been in contact with Shallan via seon. She told him to go to hell...

[@SpencerRussellSmithAuthor]

This was so fun! Thank you for having me on!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Of course! Thanks for the great discussion!

[@SLALIONLLC]

Fantastic discussion! Loved the theories and y’all’s chemistry! Personally I think the battle will result in a tie but Dalinar will still become Odium’s servant after some trickery.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Thanks man! And yeah I think that has a solid chance of happening, too!

[@serpentious]

Am I the only one who thinks there is a parallel between Moash and Marsh. A god affecting hos thoughts and feelings, as Marsh is one of my favorite characters, I want to see Moash do a scene where he does something even though Odium turned him into a clinical psychopath.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

would love to see that! hadn't considered that parallel, great catch!

[@serpentious]

@ Like I could see a scene where his lack of emotions allows him to do a ‘good’ thing. It would work if he did it not because it is right or easy, but because it is meant to be emotionally difficult and he willingly does it for Kaladin because even without emotions he is ride or die for his captain.

[@steelorca3015]

Maybe Kaladin’s 5th Ideal will be “I accept that others may not want my protection,” and that could relate to how Moash doesn’t want to be saved or redeemed.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@steelorca3015 👀🤔

[@Slater2113]

I honestly think that Moash was mostly sympathetic until RoW. I may be forgetting a key moment or two that might sway me one direction or another but killing Elochar (as much as I love his arc) and generally disliking the alethie aristocracy is pretty epic.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah dude, we’ll see what BrandoSando decides for his future, but it’s a coin flip at this point 🤷‍♂️

[@ladymairreads]

This was super fun to listen to! I’m terrible at theories but I know book 5 is going to break me

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah we’re all slightly terrified 😅

[@big-fish1199]

2 to Ramble are the GOATs

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Such fun guys to talk to!

[@thomasadjetey5029]

Great discussion! A pleasure to listen to. Thanks all

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@thomasadjetey5029 so glad you enjoyed it! There will be another one post-W&T with some other BookTube/Cosmere creators!

[@hidenki5790]

Odium makes the duel an eating costest. But Dalinar chose Lift as his champion. And everyone lived happily ever after. Hoids truth is that he actually is Brando Sando and the Cosmere is not a novel, but a memoir.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Love em! Zero notes 😅

[@thet33kihut]

The natural progression for Kaladin's fifth ideal is self-preservation and self-worth, but to the point of being the most important person in a command structure (as the Windrunners are clearly modeled on). Something akin to "I accept that the most important person for me to protect is myself". This would be very difficult for most Windrunners to accept, I think, is a clear culmination of Kaladin's journey to self-worth, easily slides Kaladin into inheriting leadership of the Knight Radiant/Urithiru, naturally creates a pinnacle of a command structure, and even parallels "I am the law".

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah that’s kind of what I was thinking. But combining the leadership into it is a nice touch, glad you were able to figure that one out!

[@Sheija]

I will LEAD others to protect themselves. Also I think there’s a WOB about some people struggling more with the Fourth than the Fifth, so I don’t think it has to be more difficult for everyone. For instance I think the Third Iseal was a bigger struggle for Teft than it was for Kaladin, and he would have had an easier time with it than Kaladin did based off their personalities.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah I personally think the 5th will be more about leadership as well. Interesting that it might not be as hard, though narratively I see where Bookborn is coming from on that. I also still like the “I will protect myself”. Goes in line with what Austin said and something I’ve thought for a long time now. You can’t save people if you’re dead. Put your own oxygen mask on before assisting others.

[@Sheija]

@@TheSandbox_Official I do like the I will protect myself quite a bit though I agree leadership should come into it. Brando also said Kaladin’s turned a corner narratively, so I don’t expect to see as much of an internal struggle as last book. That was peak. I know Bookborn thinks the Skybreaker Ideals are weird so it’s tough to benchmark, but I personally think it would make sense if every Fifth Ideal involved the knight embodying the ideal to an extent. So for the Windrunners that’s pretty much Honor.

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

Some of these are just my theories, I haven't seen much of them in other places, but I do enjoy them. Honor is restored. Odium is defeated and Dalinar takes up both shards, becoming War. He looks out across the Cosmere and his final line will be: "I will unite them". This turns into a war between Roshar and Scadrial. The two sides that have been established through 12 books. Harmony might get integrated with Ambition, with the theme of absorbing the enemy as with Ruin. I see Harmony+Ambition=Sovereignty, and suddenly Sazed can act. I believe that Navani might become something similar to a new Raboniel, controlling the base that is Urithiru. I also like the that Urithiru is a perfect opposite of Kredik Shaw, the Lord Ruler's palace. We see in The Sunlit Man that Scadrians still seem to be assholes (even though they have some kind of non intervention theme that could fit a Sovereign) so I don't think that it will be good vs bad, also because Sanderson doesn't do simple... Minor things - I believe that Adolin and Shallan will be part of a resistance movement against War. Possibly together with the splinter group of Listener's. But they might also just be loosely connected. This would also probably be on the side of Cultivation. Lift might be on their side too. - War might try to conquer Sel but will be stuck around Elantris since they are so powerful at their own terrain. Sel is the Cosmere version of an oil field, if they learn how to safely tap the Dor. They won't be able to let Sel be. - The Ghostbloods might become the agent that brings Ambition to Harmony. - In RoW, Syl talks about wanting to make windspren more intelligent. She does this just before (there is one chapter between them) Sja Anats chapter where she discusses that she makes spren more intelligent. I am not sure what this means but it is very interesting to me. Both her and Kaladin's arcs and interests here are very Connection heavy, as Syl also becomes more human. - Kaladin and Leshwi becomes a couple... They already respect each other and enjoy their interactions. If it turns out that Kaladin learns how to heal Connectivity problems, the biggest problem among the Fused, Leshwi will be in Awe. Leshwi also has friends among the spren, Syl being so old might mean that they have common friends.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@pontuslindheohlsson2184 most of these (if not all) are storming epic! Wouldn’t mind these happening at all! Only thing is Ambition would need to be healed like Honor since they’re both splintered.

[@zyrain]

Kaladin’s 5th ideal: I will sacrifice those I must.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Oooh a tad dark for me, but I like the angle

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

On reading things in a series out of order. Its a lot more common in other mediums, I think. You used to only be able to watch whatever episode was on TV. Im sure we all did that as a kid, right? I feel like that happens a lot with blockbuster franchises, too. As for me, the one time I recall doing it is with a videogame. I picked up a used copy of Soul Reaver 2 for the PS2 back in the day. It looked really cool and, as a kid, i had limited time and moneh so I figured itd be better to jump in here than wait and possibly forget about it. Totally worth it. Some of my favorite games ever!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@TheDiabeticGameMaster yeah the serialized format of storytelling has become much bigger with streaming

[@CosmereReviews]

Great video guys! Loved the discussions and theories 😊

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for tuning in

[@macmay3042]

"Kaladin is the bit of Honor that survived" feels like a stretch to explain why Honor could be changed to Survival... I mean [Mistborn era 1 spoilers, sorry] Vin used the power of Preservation to kill Ati, so does that mean Sazed could have taken up the Shard Preservation and just changed it to Kill? I think re-naming Shards is more an expression of, the names we have for them aren't perfect. They each have their own Intent. Honor's Intent is about binding things, either together, or binding something into one way of being. Honor is an extrapolation of that; it references a person's ability to swear to do a thing and then be "bound" to do it. I think it would make more sense in context to switch Honor to Survival by saying, like, survival means binding a thing as it is, so it won't die but also can't grow, rather than say, well, a bit of it survived, and so we'll just change the Intent to something completely different based on an action it took. Regarding Healing someone with a Breath... well first, no I think we see that you don't get someone's knowledge/skill from being healed by them. But also, it would kind of lose its luster in a world where healing is so easy. Renarin and pocket change can heal anything including actual decapitation if he gets there quickly enough. So we'd need to contrive some situation where Adolin gets injured and somehow there's no one with Progression or stormlight near him yet Zahel is. It's possible but it would require so much setup we'll see it coming a mile away. Which is kind of an overall problem with how ridiculously OP magic is on Roshar but that is neither here nor there. Rock: Yeah the books absolutely make it sound like he's dead. Kaladin talks in Rhythm about how he's seen his friend for the very last time. Not like "I'll prolly never go to the Peaks" but like, this is the final possible good-bye in life. He's definitely talking like he thinks Rock is dead. I think the Spiritual Realm is a little... unknowable? Kinda eldritch? I don't think we're ever gonna spend like a *ton* of time there, just because I think it's supposed to be the sort of thing a mortal mind can't really comprehend. So the more we learn about it the less "mysterious" it seems, and it kinda banks on mystery.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@macmay3042 as someone who’s been reading the preview chapters, I’m gonna keep my mouth shut and just say, GREAT THOUGHTS & THEORIES!

[@macmay3042]

@@TheSandbox_Official Ha ha thanks, I did read the Prologue cuz that initially came out like 3 years ago and I knew I was never gonna last that long without reading it (and I did read the updated version when that first dropped a few months ago and the changes are... very interesting). But, I tried reading the preview chapters for Words of Radiance and I think doing so threw off the pacing for the entire book for me, so ever since I've been avoiding preview chapters. I have had a few things spoiled for me by fans who just assume everyone reads preview chapters, but I'm mostly ignorant. I am very excited to find out what thoughts I have might or might not have some basis. Great video, great group of tubers gathered together, thank you for hosting it, very much enjoyed it. Excited for DSNX24.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

thanks man, and yeah fully understand that. I just love theorizing so much that reading the preview chapters allows me to do that and then when the book comes out, I can binge it guilt free! If you’re interested I’m doing weekly readings and discussions on them with Silverlight Guide to the Cosmere on their channel. You can always give it a try after you read the first 2 parts. We’ll also be doing a post-W&T theorycrafting video but that will be full Cosmere spoilers. I hope to see you at DSNX!

[@bensmith6004]

Sunlit Man was actually the very first Cosmere novel I read, a few months ago. I didn’t find it at all difficult to follow. I noticed references of course but the plot and characters were easy to process and it whet my interest in reading the rest. I’ve since made my way through all the secret project books, all current Stormlight Archives, Elantris, and the first Mistborn trilogy. I’m currently on the second. lol. Love the world building.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@bensmith6004 that’s awesome to hear! I still think it’s entirely risky but sounds like you’re not one to be easily discouraged!

[@bensmith6004]

@@TheSandbox_Official lol thanks. I suppose I am. I treated it like starting any other new world. If the writer is worth their salt, there will be hints and hooks all throughout, no matter where I start. It should grab me and push me to investigate more. Sanderson obviously did the job here as I’ve been through some dozen books now. 😝

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@bensmith6004 well said! Which did you enjoy more between Mistborn & Stormlight? And did Sunlit Man have any affect on that in your opinion?

[@bensmith6004]

@@TheSandbox_Official Stormlight, though the second Mistborn trilogy is coming a close second. I think Sunlit Man probably had an affect, since once I saw Sigzil’s name, I wanted to start connecting the dots. I did reread the end chapters of Sunlit Man after I caught up on Stormlight Archives, since I could appreciate the value of Aux’s sacrifice on another level.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@bensmith6004 yeah that’s what I would expect. Stormlight is my favorite too, and I started with that. I think Era 2 is SUPER underrated! I love it so much and probably enjoyed it more than Era 1 if I’m being honest with myself. Just making sure cuz you said “second trilogy”, but you’re aware it’s 4 books right? As for Aux, I’m super excited to finally meet him in Stormlight and see what makes Sigzil change Orders!

[@dmarie74]

Kaladin is absolutely not going to die in some grand sacrifice. That is a step backwards for Kaladins development.

[@jinxx9515]

I've been leaning towards that the 5 ideal would have to something really hard on kaladin. Something even harder than for him to accept that he can't save everyone. So I'm leaning towards something along the lines of... I accept that i must sometimes sacrifice others in order to protect.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That’s not a bad step above the 4th. Only time will tell!

[@Superskirtskirt]

Just gotta point out. Odium's nature is really just passion. Kaladin's struggle has always been around him caring too much. Kaladin taking up Odium sounds bad for a back half element buuuut not if Syl is Honor and they are able to join together like Ruin and Preservation. Honor + Odium = Justice? Plus a way to do Syladin without being too weird.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Odium is an actual word and it’s not JUST passion, but I do see him becoming Passion later on as a very realistic option! And yes, I love the Justice (or Judgment) theory! But I could see it requiring Cultivation as well.

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Szeth also a character based on redemption and yes it wasn't his fault and he was being manipulated by his trust in his people that he did wrong. Currently redeeming himself from the lives he took and death he brought. Almost killing dalinar several times to protecting and putting his faith in him as a sky breakers

[@TheSandbox_Official]

What do you think his 5th ideal will be?

[@TheMatSignal.]

The contest is going to go down like Bill and Ted vs Death

[@TheSandbox_Official]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Rkcuddles]

Great discussion. Thank you.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@Rkcuddles glad you enjoyed it! I’ll be doing a similar one with new guests post-Wind & Truth

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

I love the Shallan and Gavinor theories, and the Sword Adolin and Radiant Maya one😅. As for character deaths, I think that Adolin dies so that Shallan can become a worldhopper. Something is going to happen with Kal and Syl. Whether that's one or both of them dying or one of them becoming Honor. Actually, what if Kal becomes Honor while bonded to Syl, and that makes it so that they both are Honor??? They could be named like Duality or something. But by far, my biggest theory is with Dalinar: He loses the contest, is forced to aerve Odium, and then becomes a VILLAIN in the back half! He would be redeemed at some point of course, but I think that would be gut-wrenching

[@TheSandbox_Official]

All good thoughts! I'm just so excited to find out what crazy twist(s) BrandoSando has in store for us!

[@RockinVT]

Adolin (Ay-Doh-Lynn). Enjoyable show but that hurt every time you guys said Adolin the way you did

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Ngl it hurt me too 😅

[@IamHattman]

Personally i think the contest will be the arc through to the middle of the book at the latest. Theres just so much book there and several of the goals the characters have just cant reasonably be done inside of 10 days. So im expecting some sort of switch up thst makes the contest be resolved early and lets things continue past that.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That’s what I thought might happen until Bookborn claimed otherwise

[@jamesporrell5687]

Windrunner 5th ideal: I will decide WHO is worthy of protection (rather than just protecting the 'weak' or 'innocent' as no human is truly innocent) Dalinar will lost the contest, and become beholden to Odium. But since Odium is now held by a principled man (not a good person but not evil) instead of Rayse, TOdium will one day be redeemed and Dalinar will again become an instrumental figure in the battle against TRUE evil. Dalinar and Taravangian started as friends and they'll end as friends.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah I like the idea that Dalinar & Taravangian will retool Odium for good in the end. All Taravangian has ever wanted was to keep Kharbranth safe and be friends with Dalinar 😅

[@Rawrbagels]

How about this for Honors Champion: Adolin finally takes over for his father. But he’s too weak! People might say. Well, how about the most talented duelist in the story so far steps in the ring shardplate and Mayalaran in hand. Then those shards REVIVE during the fight, at least temporarily bonding Adolin to multiple orders simultaneously. All stuff we have been working towards for some time. Spent large portions of books 2, 3, and 4 for these themes to pay off.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Interesting…🧐

[@MareKholin]

This is my theory: Kaladin fifth ideal will be “I will protect even if I have to kill the ones I love” and then kills Moash! (I know he doesn’t necessarily loves moash but he was like a best friend ¿?)

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Hmmmm, it doesn't technically contradict his past oaths, but I'm not so sure about this one. But hey, I won't write it off just yet!

[@quackmemes5410]

I was also thinking something along these lines. It’s either he accepts that there is no way to protect by killing or he accepts that to protect you sometimes must kill. I am leaning towards the latter but I’m like 55-45 on this

[@ilananl1004]

I would go crazy if we don't get to learn more about Renarin and his abilities and connection to Ba ido what's her name (that's been undermining Odium), the way he's been guiding things in the background that we don't know about. Like telling that spren to bond with Rlain, sending that note to Taravangian and who knows what else we don't even know about yet... Why is no one talking about what's going on with Renarin? And I think Navani will have a bigger role to play now she knows all the rhythms of Roshar and the all the lights (cancelling each other out). Also, what about Lift? She is created by Cultivation? She is not a Radiant because she has Life light instead of, or besides Stormlight. What's the story there? And is Ishar crazy claiming to be Honor or is it possible that Honor is indeed inside of him somehow? Not to mention the strange and horrible spren bodies/experiments.... what is going on there? And Kaladin now has an see through or invisible shardplate? Is that because of the 4th ideal? But isn't Jasnah supposed to be 4th ideal as well? Yet, there is no mention of her having/wearing one when she went into battle in RoW.... And how come Wit has bonded a spren while Mraiz might not be able to because he's not from Roshar? But Wit is? And what will happen to this spren when he leaves Roshar? And Wit now has lost some of his powers/memory after Odium/Rayse was killed? What does that mean, other than Taravangian now thinking he can outsmart him. And yeah, new Odium.... does everyone assumes that the shard corrupts the vessel to seek destruction like Rayse. It seemed like Rayse as Odium wanted to leave Roshar entirely? Or what exactly was he trying to accomplish? Conquer other planets? Which is why he wanted Dalinar, to go fight for him on other planets? My mind is spinning.... I hope the Heralds will be able to heal and champion for Roshar again. And Taravangian is the only one that does not discount Renarin, so now that he has become 'all knowing and all seeing', he will probably go for Renarin.... So if there is to be a champion for Odium, it might be Renarin. When will Sanderson plan on continuing with Stormlight book 6? Because my guess is to still have a lot more unanswered questions after Wind and Truth!😂

[@huntersteed2880]

My theories: The battle of champions happens in Part 2. Dalinar ascends to become Honor. A new oath pact is formed. Kaladin becomes one of the new heralds. Adolin dies.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I also thought the contest happening mid-way through or even earlier would be such a sneaky and interesting twist. But it does sound like it will be saved for the end. Probably not the very end tho cuz we need closure on arcs and story threads, as well as teases for the future. All the rest I can see happening, but please no NOT ADOLIN!

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

Imagine if the contest is chapter 1 lol

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@KALtheHighstorm117 That'd be hilarious, but the synopsis confirms that's not the case

[@Sheija]

The loophole is that if either party breaks any of their terms, the contract is void - I think. So Todium (which is indeed a horrible fandom name) will manipulate Dalinar into breaking it in some way.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I can definitely see that happening. But I don’t really see the point in Odium manipulating Dalinar to break it, given that Odium breaking it results in the same outcome.

[@CrownlessStudios]

​@TheSandbox_Official breaking it would weaken Odium. Men can break their word in a way that Shards can't. Not saying I agree with OP, but they do have a point.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@CrownlessStudios fair enough 😅

[@ocean5420]

Crackpot theory: It will be shallan vs shallan for the contest of champions. No basis aside from the fact that I think our big 3 characters should be involve with the endgame. But I aslo believe that there will be no physical duel. Maybe it’ll be some sort of mental or spiritual battle. Or like a game of chess. I find that brandon likes to imply one thing will happen for an endgame but a different thing happens yet it still makes sense

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Bold theory! Definitely would be unexpected!

[@davidsonderby3676]

Why is no one theorizing about the fact that the contest was with Rayze and not Taravangian? Taravangian has the power to save the world now by killing rayze and ascending to Odium. Everyone I've watched just takes it for granted that Taravangian must have the same goals as rayze. But he doesn't. His original reason to seek Cultivation was in order to save the world from what is coming. Whether or not her boon/curse still affects him now that he is a shard is a question to be discussed. But either way it means that everything we think about Odium and the desolation to come can go in an entirely different direction.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I think you have a fair point. Personally I think it’d be a bit anticlimactic and unexpected to pull the “10 days to decide Roshar’s fate” rug out from underneath us. Sanderson has set expectations and made a promise, so I think the duel is much more likely to happen than not. That said…I definitely think we’ll get some fun surprises given that nobody knows about the swap yet!

[@davidsonderby3676]

@@TheSandbox_Official it'll still probably be a significant event, but whatever Rayse was planning is completely out the window. I think everyone just overhyped the 'duel of the fates' when the literal climax of the book was taravangian slaying rayse and ascending. Remember, Cultivation tricked the shard of Odium into choosing him due to her curse, because he was dumb and emotional when he picked it up. She may have literally foiled the shards intent by giving it an incompatible vessel. Hence why my guess is taravangian either loses on purpose, or reveals himself and calls a truce, where they then face the true villian built up in ROW - Ishar.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@davidsonderby3676 from what I remember, Taravangian taking up Odium wasn’t originally part of BrandoSando’s plan. At least not for RoW. He just realized when writing that the pieces were all in the right place and so he went for it. I think the Shard (not Vessel) wields more control/influence than we realize and is gonna suck Taravangian into it.

[@nelkabosal]

Referencing prerelease for SP#5 at bottom I think Todium's comments on interplanetary war is closely related to . . . "the big baddie"/conflict in Lost Metal. So I think that'll get connected to Roshar somehow. And "Todium-to-Roshar" will be similar to the "Taravangian-to-Kharbranth". SP#5 . . . . . . . . . . I think "War-Tower" light, and "corrupted" spren and singer-human allies will definitely be a part of space-age Roshar, maybe even "standard" for them.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

All good thoughts! Excited to see how it all plays out!

[@thepurpleberry]

Cultivation will be Odium's champion

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That’d actually be sick tho I highly doubt it

[@fether666]

Fifth Ideal - I will trust others to do what I know needs to be done

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Not a bad leadership quality

[@jaredferguson6082]

For 5th ideals, I think they essentially mean that that radiant embodies their order. With the skybreakers it is becoming the Law. I think the Windrunner's 5th ideal will be along the same lines.

[@Christian-ut2sp]

Deserves more views

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@Christian-ut2sp thanks Christian! It’s hopefully on its way! 😅😂

[@macmay3042]

The thing about Dalinar being redeemed is... did he need to be? He was a brutal soldier on the field. So what? And yes, Rathalas, obviously, but that was a single act influenced by supernatural forces. It's far easier to get redemption from one wildly out-of-character mistake than for someone to get redeemed for just being a worthless piece of slime. I think people way exaggerate how bad Dalinar ever was or why he would need to be redeemed. Also, I'm gonna give Austin some credit here that he was just exercising brevity... Elhokar wasn't "about to be redeemed", he was maybe about to take the first step on the road towards redemption. Journey before Destination. I do subscribe to "baby champion" but, I think it's Oroden, not Gavinor. Yeah, and Richard hits the Nale on the head. The terms of the contract give punishment if either side interferes. So I suspect what will happen is, Szeth v Oroden, Szeth is like, sure, whatever, I've killed babies, and Dalinar is faced with, do I do this to Kaladin and save the world, or do I interfere, and unleash Odium on the cosmere? "And so the night reigns, for the choice of honor is life."

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@macmay3042 Oroden would be SOUL CRUSHING! Though if I’m not mistaken, I thought it was said in the past that he’d play a crucial part in the back half. However, that doesn’t negate him being Odium’s champion either.

[@macmay3042]

@@TheSandbox_Official Yeah, especially if the end of the Duel is that Dalinar interferes in order to ensure neither of them die. Oroden might stay under Odium's sway, or he might be released, and spend his life knowing that the world was sold to save his life. Which could be a powerful motivation for a character in the back half.

[@drewmur]

Dalinar did not mean to kill his wife. Moash knew exactly what he was doing when he killed Teft. Also, as far as the Anakin angle, Luke may think of him as redeemed. I doubt people like Han or the rest of the galaxy think of him as redeemed.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Fair enough on Dalinar/Moash. As for the Anakin angle, yeah I actually like that. There's no taking away the atrocities that both have done. But their relationship to Luke/Kaladin are really the only things that matter to them, so being redeemed in their eyes alone is enough to strike that emotional chord with us the audience, without belittling them as a "villain".

[@leenicholas3279]

Kaladin's 5th Oath Prediction - I am worth being protected.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Love this!

[@macmay3042]

@bookborn, right there with you on Todium. Vargodium is the true way.

[@Radiant26]

I don’t know if this is a theory that’s out there or if it’s just me. Moash has pointed to the fact that you can’t kill Kaladin. I think the only way that Kaladin can die is by his own hand or perhaps sacrifice himself. Which I believe is coming in this book.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Man that would be brutal and heartbreaking!

[@Degrad21]

it is so funny to hear "normal" fans talking about cosmere magics. As a reader I understood not more than you did, but since watching the 17th-shard podcasts I understand soooo much more about this and now some of this sounds as if youbare truly lost😂 (no offense, as I said, I did not understand more when I read it)

[@TheSandbox_Official]

We had a good variety of knowledge in this group (some Cosmere veterans and rookies). But yeah the 17th shard and Coppermind are on another level! Happy to talk more in depth theories here if you’d like!

[@sandrar4981]

I love some of your theories. Syl becoming Honor could be great. Also, yes, for Hoid's truth just because I want to read one 😂

[@TheSandbox_Official]

❤️ glad your enjoyed them! Do you have any hopefuls for Wind & Truth?

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

I just like the term "Storm Mother". It gets me excited, for some reason, lol.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@TheDiabeticGameMaster it’s a twist I could see Sanderson doing 😅

[@jamesgarner738]

"Unite them" - y'all forgetting the ONE mantra that has been present throughout every book. I don't think it's possible to unite the cognitive realm and the physical or spiritual realm like folks are talking about here. Unite them - the tones, the rhythms, the the lights of Honor and Odium. Navani is an Bondsmith now, and she knows how to combine Honor and Odium's rhythms. Dalinar is not going to be the champion, he's not capable of uniting the shards as he is now, or will be in 10 days. Navani is capable of it, though. The rhythm of war will become manifest when they (Honor and Odium) are united. What will be the consequences? What will become of Dalinar and Taravangian once they are united? Only Brandon knows.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Definitely think that’s a theory for the back-half, but love the Navani idea!

[@stevencooney3347]

Kal’s fifth ideal: I will create a world in which we all protect each other.

[@CunnininnuC]

Re: making up names for characters who have names that are hard to pronounce - my friend and I will only refer to Raoden as “Slime Prince” because neither of us can remember his real name and there is ample description of the grime all over Elantris

[@TheSandbox_Official]

😂😂😂 that’s gold!

[@gryphonsandspears1632]

I think the set up for Gavilar(Elhokar's kid) beign the champion is simple. He was neglected, tortured, watched his father die, and now explcitly wants revenge. For odium to look at this child and promise him what he promised Moash, freedom from pain, power to hurt those who killed his uncle. Odium has moash, all he has to do it say "become my champion and i will help you kill your fathers killer" He would take it

[@tylerluckett543]

The duel- something happens and Dalinar decides not to be the champion. Adolin fights, duel master now dueling for all of Roshar, and Maya is reborn mid fight. Maya is a free spren from then on, because making Adolin start from scratch radiant is meh. Adolin ascends to be the new Honor, paving the way for Shallan to begin world hopping. El is odiums champion. Terms of the duel are set and Odium wins the challenge on a technicality, setting the stage for Dalinar to be his peon and Navani to try to think her way/use her bond Smith pal to follow him and try to help.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Love your thoughts here. Definitely agree Adolin shouldn’t start from scratch as a Radiant. Dalinar becoming a Fused servant is a must with it being so heavily set up. And Navani researching her skills to find a way to save him makes so much sense, I’m upset I hadn’t thought much about it. Nice work, Radiant!

[@morsumbra9692]

I could see Moash getting redeemed but Adolin struggles with forgiveness, causing Kaladin a lot of strife. That'd be interesting to put the poor guy through

[@oswinhull4203]

Moash and Kaladin don't want to fight each other. They've literally had 3 opportunities to fight and they haven't. Kaladin doesn't want to accept that he can't save Moash. Moash wants Kaladin to help him upend the social order that makes life hell for the lower class and groups that are discriminated against.

[@mish2637]

actually by RoW, it's not that Moash doesn't want to fight him, it's that he knows he won't win so he has to use other tactics to "give him peace." He uses his knowledge of Kaladin's mental struggles and attempts to convince Kaladin to kill himself. He wants Kaladin to die but he perceives it as him helping Kaladin, deluding himself into thinking it's what's best for him.

[@RickarRickani]

I will protect those from who i love, he loves Moash right? Or maybe something like: i will protect them from them selfs. Aka helping mental health and the Moash arc?

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I don’t think you’re far off at all with that line of thinking. This combines his mental health arc & leadership quality for a nice 5th Ideal!

[@carsonhenderson]

Other than dan wells, who did they say would have books written in the cosmere?

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@carsonhenderson I believe Isaac Stewart is working on one slowly now.

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Sky breakers are less flexible since it is based off laws but it has a personal touch as it gets to higher ideals

[@silvertongue.242_99]

I never thought shallan situation was magically based at all just thought she was freaking out. It did kinda come out of nowhere for me

[@JEDSaje15]

Something that's never happened that I can recall. Is Adolin has never said the oaths. I don't believe we've seen anyone Bonded to a dead blade having ever said the oaths. I think thats the simple secret to reviving them

[@jarrodwakefield4992]

I needed this

[@TheSandbox_Official]

😍😁 glad we could help!

[@Josh-the-man]

Szeth is on his personal quest which means he is past the Dalinar ideal. This is revealed at the end of ROW

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah, that’s where he’s headed in W&T. I think we touch on that later in the discussion.

[@buffasa1]

Theory. Dalinar lose and forced to break bond which leaves the stormfather open. As he is the cognitive shadow of honor it will be a big sliver to pick up. I think that while in shinovar kaladin will grab the remaining honor blades aka slivers of honor and bring them back. I think between the blades which are self awar slivers and the stormfather he will ascend to honor. Dalinar will become a fused anlld lose but kaladin will pick up honor. Aka bittersweet ending. You heard it here 1st Kaladins arc is coming to an end bookborn. Its time to go. In secret project 4, sigzil thinks he sees kaladin and that would only he possible under certain circumstances to allow a crazy long life considering the fact of how far in the future that book took place.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Solid theories imo. I will say that that Sig was going through something and seeing a ghost of someone he used to look up to is also a reasonable explanation.

[@cookiediangelo8511]

5th ideal is you can’t kill to protect. I think it makes the most sense for Windrunners, kaladin’s arc, and thematically. The oaths go in order, protect, protect those you hate, accept there are those you can not protect. The next step is that you can not kill anyone, not even to protect. Windrunners protect everyone, even those they hate. It makes sense logically as the fifth oath. Rind runners are soldiers, so swearing not to kill is very difficult for them, especially since they will be put into situations where they need to kill. That is why most will never make it to the fifth oath. It means a tremendous sacrifice. And that is why it works. Not killing doesn’t work in war, it is a grand ideal only those at the top can swear to, and fifth oath radiants are at the point where they are somewhat above the usual rules. It just seems grand and difficult enough for it to make sense. Next, kaladin’s arc. Kaladin and lirin have been debating for years about killing to protect. It’s honestly THE debate kaladin has had in his head. Surgeon or soldier. Lirin has taught kaladin’s very ideal up till now. Protect(heal), protect those you hate (Sergio a heal anyone and everyone regardless of what they’ve done), accept there are those you can’t protect (callouses). The other lesson lirin has been pounding into kal is that you can’t kill to protect. Kaladin said at the end of row that they are both right, in their own ways. I think this is the case. Kaladin was right to kill as a soldier and as a windrunner who needed to protect, but a fifth ideal Windrunner does not kill. So when he swears that ideal, then that will be right. This is also where kaladin’s seems to be going. He is not a soldier anymore; he has retired as high marshal, so he is actually in the perfect position to swear not to kill. I know a lot of people hate this theory because they hate lirin, but it makes the most sense. Also, maybe swearing the fifth ideal will give the cohesion serge an upgrade that will be necessary to heal Ishar. It’s been set up as something only kal can do, and as a fifth oath radiant he might be the only one who can. I think having his other serge be the one to save the day would be good since the books have kinda ignored cohesion since kaladin only uses it when his gravitation isn’t working.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That’s so good! Pretty much “I must protect everyone” it sounds like. Such a solid theory staring us all right in the face! Awesome write up, thanks for sharing! Edit to add: however, this would mean Lirin is right, no? He was always right in this debate if this is the case.

[@cookiediangelo8511]

No. He was not right. In an ideal world, you can not kill to protect. But this is not an ideal world. Radiants have to deal will voidbringers and singers who will kill. If Windrunner a did not kill, they could not protect. Windrunner are the protectors, and are the core soldiers. They get their hands dirty fighting to protect. They need to kill, and it is right for a windrunner to kill. However, a fifth ideal radiant is above that. On the scale of “I am the law” is “I do not kill to protect” or “I protect everyone”. A fifth ideal radiant is above this stuff. Once a windrunner swears his fifth ideal, then it is wrong for them to kill. A fifth ideal radiant LIVES their ideals. So real world stuff do not apply, the most important thing is their oaths. So they are both right. Kaladin was not wrong to kill. He had sworn to protect, and if he did not kill, he would not have protected. He would instead have effectively been a neutral party who isn’t protecting anyone but himself. But a fifth ideal radiant lives their ideals, and so they must protect everyone. It makes the most sense. In a way, swearing the fifth oath means you won’t be able to protect the way you once did. You can’t choose sides, you protect everyone. That is why the fourth ideal is to accept there are this you can not protect. It’s to prepare you for the fifth ideal. The fourth ideal always felt a little off for me, it’s important to acccept you can’t protect everyone, but fourth ideal important? But if swearing the fifth ideals means you can’t protect everyone, then it makes perfect sense why the one before swearing not to kill would be accepting you can’t protect everyone. I 100% believe this, but most people I talk to hate this theory. But like what else could it be? It’s too perfect!

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@cookiediangelo8511 Yeah man, I think you've struck gold here. I really like it! Will just come down to how Sanderson writes it and uses it for Kaladin's arc and the future Windrunner corps.

[@Sheija]

On the Spiritual Realm I’m guessing you guys didn’t read the pre-release chapters? 😂 Cause SPOILERS: We are going to the Spiritual Realm, it is a place, and it sounds very interesting. Time runs backward and all that.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Haha yeah I mentioned at the beginning that we were avoiding those chapters to avoid spoilers. Luckily, I’ve read them tho 😅

[@silvertongue.242_99]

I don't want to see kaladin because of how much the shard changes and influence on it's vessel. Its thematically like nice but Kal that's my boy

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@silvertongue.242_99 hahaha I can’t blame you there! Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I’m preparing myself for his sweet demise

[@nyaatama8529]

Funny thing, if the Cryptics sent Testament and Pattern to Shallan, did they not conspire to start the desolation.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

🤔

[@macmay3042]

Re: Chanarach: I mean, I've tried looking up support for this theory, and you joke, but like 90% of the evidence is actually "she has red hair". There's a lot of "evidence" to the tune of, we can't find anything which proves this *isn't* true, but I've looked for actual support of this idea and it's thin on the ground. There's any number of theories I could say that people can't prove isn't the case cuz we just don't know much. That doesn't make them independently likely. The huge counter-evidence for the idea I have is, Shallan did in fact kill her. The Heralds are iconic for being some of the best warriors in all existence. They've lived thousands of years in a dangerous, deadly world. It simply does not scan that Chanarach would get killed by a person she knew she was in a physical fight with, a person she knew might have access to a Shardblade, a person she watched raise her arms to summon said Blade. The only counter to this I've ever heard is people giving the handwave of "she was just stupid and didn't consider the very likely possibilities" and, just no. A big plot point in Tress was, people who aren't careful, all the time, do not survive for thousands of years. Statistics say that if you regularly take 5% chances of death you've got something in the ballpark of 20 chances until one of them kills you. It's just not reasonable to think that Chanarach was cautious enough to survive for thousands of years, while also being dumb enough to not consider very plausible immediate dangers. *Something* could have happened, so maybe that's the answer, that it was an unfortunate for her confluence of some other factor giving Shallan an opening. But as it stands, the idea that Chanarach was just careless and got herself killed, does not hold up. If nothing else... her "fifth Ideal" being "I'm responsible for the Desolation" would be the wildly worst possible thing. Because it's utterly, flagrantly a lie, purely for the purposes of punishing herself, and her entire arc is about learning that she doesn't need to spend her life punishing herself. To have her fifth Oath be to take on responsibility for something which is not on her at all, just because she thinks she needs to be punished for killing her mom, would be a complete and total regression of her entire arc, not a logical conclusion. She was a child who got attacked and defended herself. You're saying the truth is, she should have just let herself be murdered so her mom wouldn't selfishly choose to doom the world? That's what you consider the Truth? That sounds like a healthy view for Shallan to take? If there is any kind of validity to the notion, it would have to be that she learns of this, does initially blame herself, and her final Oath is, "None of this is my fault." If she's going to get there by the end of Wind and Truth, then she needs to learn about this pretty much first thing in the book, so she can spend the time blaming herself and work through it to come to the conclusion that it's not, in fact, her fault.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@macmay3042 I think I linked the write up on the theory in the description. Highly recommend it if you’re curious on the subject. I’ll just butcher it 😅

[@macmay3042]

@@TheSandbox_Official Hrm... I read the full theory on the Shard. I'm pretty sure I've read it before. Like I said, there's almost no actual evidence there for the idea. There's just a long list of assumptions, or like "what else could this possibly mean" when there are actually a lot of very simple explanations, and a lot of "well this doesn't prove it didn't happen." Apart from the fact that it simply doesn't make sense that a Herald could lose a fight to a child, I just don't see even one thing in this theory that actually outright points to the idea instead of just saying "we don't know that it can't be true." I mean, it's right, I can't actually prove this isn't the case, but right now I see no reason to think it is. And I will say, if this theory holds water, it must account for the fact that there's just no way Chanarach was killed that easily. Something else must have happened to give Shallan the opening, because "this incredible warrior who was killing someone specifically for a reason synonymous with access to a Shardblade didn't consider she might have had a Shardblade" would just be awful writing.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@ I mean, what do you count as evidence within a fantasy series? It’s all conjecture up until it’s straight out said, no? And even then, it’s often a lie, especially when it involves Shallan 😅

[@macmay3042]

@@TheSandbox_Official I mean sure but... if people are saying things like, this is such a solid theory, it's all but confirmed, I'm confident it's going to happen... I have seen theories that have actual "here's evidence that it might genuinely be true" support, not just, "here's one reason that doesn't itself disprove it." If people were saying, this is an idea someone had and we can't prove it wrong yet... I mean I'd still have an issue, cuz like I said, I see one glaring reasons that it's very unlikely, but at least it would be in keeping with the amount of evidence for it. Look at the "Baby champion" theory. We have actual support for it, in the form of one (kinda two) Death Rattles which seem to point at this actual conclusion, and a few other things. Not just, well we don't know who Odium's champion is, so we don't know that it's *not* Gavinor.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@ here’s what sold me on it: Taln being the last and only Herald to stick to the Oathpact + the WoB that stated he never broke, Shallan killing her mother + the timeline matching the next Desolation start date, Shallan’s quote on her having ended the world, the mysterious safe at Shallan’s home + the use of metals on Roshar + trapping Cognitive Shadows within gemstones, Radiant’s appearances aligning almost exactly with Shallan’s repressed memory of what her mother looked like, and lastly the foreshadowing that Gavilar (spoiler from prologue which you’ve read) would simply give in right away and return to Roshar from Braize if he were made a Herald. Those points out together made a clear picture to me. I’m excited to see how it plays out in W&T!

[@jadencasto]

I have though the same thing as Bookborn about how we would probably feel the same way about Dalinar as we do Moash if the story took place during his Blackthorn days. However, for the love of all that is holy, please do not redeem Moash - I could have accepted if until he killed Teft in cold blood (unlike Dalinar who did not know he killed his wife). Also, I will say to the Anikan comparison - it is a fair comparison, but I also absolutely hate the fact that people see Anikan as redeemed. Like the dude terrorized the entire galaxy and killed countless people, and in the end he kills another evil guy to protect his own son - that is the weakest “redemption” act and arc every. If Moash is treated like Vader, then I will be ticked!

[@TheDietDuff]

I would like Moash to speak the 1st ideal but have the words not accepted right before he dies

[@TheSandbox_Official]

That would be hilariously brutal! I love it!

[@adso9323]

My crackpot theory is Kaladins 5th ideal will be come along with the secrets of the Recreance and be like "i will protect others from us/me"

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Ooh interesting. Almost like “I’ll only fight if I have to” sort of thing?

[@quackmemes5410]

Too similar to lopen’s third ideal imo

[@kyle2952]

What iff the 5th ideal atleast of a Windrunner is not something Kaladin says but all his Windrunner s say the 5th ideal to him

[@williamkeaton5091]

There won’t be breath resurrection because there is not enough setting up breath in Stormlight

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I think it’s a possibility if Sanderson truly wants to. But I’m also not against him saving it for the back half. However he has admitted that “the gloves are off”. And after many books within the series utilizing these characters such as Vasher, Vivenna, & Nightblood, it’s certainly not off the table. There were people saying he couldn’t use Nightblood to kill Odium/Rayse ahead of Rhythm of War, yet here we are.

[@IndiaTides]

I cared about Szeth more than Elhokar.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Both such great characters given the roles they serve, but I agree with you here. Looking forward to this next book for more of his POV!

[@IndiaTides]

@@TheSandbox_Official 🙂🙂🙂

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Emerald sea like you technically can start with it but there is literally things you should know more of or you would be so lost. Like some of statements from characters are very confusing without prior knowledge. Like yes 90% of the book you good but that 10% is big because you'll feel lost at points. I shouldn't say big just confusing for like a second so not too bad

[@silvertongue.242_99]

But yeah I think it's because I knew more about the cosmere. It would have me wanting to know more if I first read it. I guess lost is a strong word. it was a bit difficult for me to realize og this that well one part of tress story but it clicked on Soren bond. I agree you definitely can and it's a good story without the giga brain world hoppers expositing 😂😂

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Book born is spot on with her views on them as starting books. But I am just finishing the emerald sea. You can totally start there not really an issue once you think on it

[@Zachdiditx]

Spencer is throwing me off here. Firstly the Herald's insanity coming from magical reasonings. Sure there could be a little of that but we're forgetting the elephant in the room here where they spent thousands of years running in terror, being captured, and tortured on Braize. Like that setup may be magical but what happened was most definitely mental. Now onto Honor becoming "Survival". Naw. Shard name changed happened once when two were combined. The shard guides the person not the other way around. Ati was described as kind an generous. Ruin over time morphed him. Like a certain Terrisman is being morphed by his shards. Like Taravangian is being morphed by Odium.

[@FloweyTheGod9821]

Video idea if you havnt done it already: All episodes of the cuphead show ranked

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I haven’t seen it. You think I’d enjoy? I must admit it’s peaked my interest in the past.

[@DerekAGilbert]

More of this.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

It's coming, good sir!

[@matthewmichaelcrown3643]

So weak that people think it's not PC to "heal" mental conditions. They have often been healed by vitamins, minderals and spirituality. As someone said in the video, Kaladin suffers from caring too much. It is spiritual imbalance that leads to his symptoms of depression. Thoughts tune us in to vast forcefields.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

@@matthewmichaelcrown3643 I think they were saying it’s a bit of a cop out writing wise as well which I can agree to some extent. That said, I do think divinity will and should play a role in healing. Time will only tell!

[@simonjones7884]

HE IS (SANDERSON) one of the best writers ive come across...

[@valliyarnl]

If the theorised Kaladin/Syl relationship happens I’m gonna cry and ask for a refund 😭😅

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Hahaha but what KIND of relationship? 😅

[@valliyarnl]

@@TheSandbox_Official some people think they should be romantically linked and I just can’t get behind it

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Oh god no!

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Not to be a moash defender but he used odium power and influence to take away the pain from the decisions he makes. So that's why he hasn't been affected by his crimes against his friends

[@Apfelbaum187]

Am I the only one who thinks its Dalinars wife who is to blame for that whole thing? he was in charge, she broke the rule, ignored the command and went against his will. His assumption that she was "stolen" and the burning afterwards was based on her betrayl.

[@DeadlyLazerpunk]

I highly doubt Adolin will die Bro has the flattest character arc I've ever seen It would do nothing in terms of emotional payoff in either direction to kill him off

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I agree! Killing him would just be male fridging, no?

[@ZeeGoes]

Based on the chapters released, I guess that Wit figures out what Todium's plan is and they win the contest but as soon as they believe they have some respite, Cultivation kills Todium and turns out to be the 'bad' guy with the long con. Maybe she played Honor until he spread himself too thin and died. Convinced the radiants to break their oaths and capture Ba-Ado Mishram which led to the recreance. In some ways, the recreance forced humans to innovate and improve while totally culling the growth of the Parshendi mentally...but at the same time, they got a similar treatment to what she did to Dalinar by wiping away the memory of his wife. In this case, their entire sense of self got wiped off and now, that they have their minds back, most of the once war-focused Parshendi would rather live a peaceful life and not continue the cycle of desolations that their ancestors were stuck in. I think she chose Taravangian as Odium because she was at an impasse with Rayse...her goal might be to prune the never-bending or evolving shards and improve them by combining them all. We know that Honor + Odium = War, but what is War + Cultivation?

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I don’t think we know Honor + Odium = War. We only know that their lights combined create Warlight. But as for your theory, I can definitely see Cultivation turning and doing a long con if the Contest is middle of the book. Otherwise, I think we’ll have to wait a few more books. Great theory tho. And awesome write up!

[@talorhall9755]

Oh I am okay with this theory. Spoilers for all Mistborn . . . . . . If Cultivation actually did this, I’d be more okay with Harmony/Sazed/possible Discord somehow destroying her and adding the Cultivation intent to the list which I think would actually make Sazed more easily balance the Ruin and Preservation intents.

[@chadmunson4129]

Caledon versus moachs. Dalenar versus odium.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

I think we most assuredly will get variations for both of these

[@JasonEvetts-o1m]

i understand that you can kill to protect.

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Simple yet effective

[@tomcunningham7514]

I had a friend tell me a theory that kaladin will take on the shards of odium and honour and become war

[@TheSandbox_Official]

Yeah it's a popular one. I'm not sure if they would make War though. The theory states it due to Warlight but none of the Lights are named after the Shards (and vice versa). Personally, my little theory on the RoShards (ba-dum-ts) is that Szeth might end up with all 3 as he shares a lot of similarities with another Shard in the Cosmere from a different series (iykyk) and he'll become either Justice or Judgment. And I don't think Szeth's 5th Ideal will be "I am law" but "I am justice". My crackpot theory for the day 😅