Our Wind and Truth REACTIONS! | Lost in Roshar Ep. 64

[@LightNight2]

Funniest thing ever- Fandom: "Kaladin deserves love, happiness, and a quiet life of his own!!" Sanderson: "You're right, Szeth DOES deserve that." LMAO

[@tct8284]

Kaladin and a herald?

[@ramspencer5492]

A quiet life for Kal would not have been satisfying..... This was about the most satisfying possible outcome for him. I didn't care how many are freaked out by it, it makes sense that love isn't off the table for Kal.. Especially now that he's on more equal footing with Syl.

[@BostonJoseLuis]

I liked how the book ended with Hoid getting that carriage driver job. That really puts him on the Mistborn era 2 timeline, since in those books Hoid was a carriage driver for Wax.

[@joeshmoe001100]

I thought that was great, too. It specifically places this between Alloy of Law and Shadows of Self, since he's the "new carriage driver" in SoS. Provides some context for when Thaidekar is talking with Shallan. The Lost Metal events hadn't happened yet.

[@tylerwrigley5308]

“Just like the Storm the people were unaware of the signs until the Cremling guided their minds.” -Collected 70 years pre death on the 2nd day before the bearded immortal would be covered in Ash and soot. Subject was a dark eyed truthless of Canada.

[@TwoSockAaron]

I saw a lot of people on reddit saying they were disappointed in the book. So I was glad to hear you guys be mostly positive on it, because I also had a lot of fun reading it.

[@ramspencer5492]

I think people got tripped up by their own expectations and attachments. This is not a perfect book but it's a very strong one..(and in my opinion satisfying one). In many ways it's more of a setup than a conclusion

[@ramspencer5492]

Also a lot of the most negative fandom is the most Vocal....(Not to mention just the troll campaign against Sanderson.... those were never real fans, calling him "woke" and acting like they used to be fans who are so very disappointed now... 😜 I call b*******.... They're just internet trolls!). If you just look at the book seller reviews like Goodreads and Amazon, The book got very, very strong reviews.... Just about as strong as words of radiance and Oathbringer even!

[@nachoalfonso2614]

The book would have benefited from a more thourough editing process. It does read somewhat more juvenile than the rest of the SA. It still is a good book.

[@Wordiestpandora]

At dragonsteel 2024 while reenacting the wedding of shallan and adolin a woman with red hair interrupted the wedding by running out and grabbing shallan ... Wit proceeds to drag her away from shallan.. Brandon later confirmed it to be chanarach.

[@birdfrog6266]

I saw the renouncing of oaths 3 times accomplish 3 different things. Sig did it for his spren. Szeth did it for himself, and Dalinar did it for the people.

[@yaibaone]

I like how Sigzil protected those who can't protect themselves (his spren) by letting go of his oaths

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

God i love the juxtoposition between this reaction and the 17th shard people complaining constantly throughout lmao.

[@slidenaway]

Right?? I made myself a little crazy listening to their reactions. Christian and Jimmy are so much more reasonable. I even agree with most of their gripes, which are minor. I’m glad they let themselves enjoy the book!!

[@franzi2354]

Hahhah my thoughts exactly

[@DK-fk7mx]

Right!?!? It's like their expectations got in the way of how good this book actually was.

[@nicolaserrazuriz4]

i thought it was insane because most of the 17th shard criticism wasn´t even about prose, dialogue or other valid points you can make , it was just complaining about their personal theory not becoming true, like saying that they know the characters and world better than sanderson...

[@Scottcrestline]

Love this video and glad to find other people that enjoy the book as well too me I felt that this was written with the idea that you are intimately familiar with these characters so it was written in a more relatable way I don’t know if that makes sense but overall I really enjoyed the book and can’t wait for more

[@jennywilliams1455]

I feel like Adolin encompasses a true merging of Honor and Cultivation, and I was a little convinced he would pick up Honor for a few chapters there.

[@jasonbrewbaker3932]

It was honorable to kill Sadeas at the end of TWOK?

[@slidenaway]

@@jasonbrewbaker3932sometimes a hypocrite is just a man in the process of changing

[@thesaintzor625]

Yes​@@jasonbrewbaker3932

[@thesaintzor625]

He still might when honor grows up

[@justwinning]

His honour demanded it​@jasonbrewbaker3932

[@JC-qp8hj]

The Warlight Chronicle: the herald Kaladin returns to Roshar with his wife, Chanarach, to Shallans absolute horror 😂

[@king_dot]

Wait that reminds me I wonder if Chanarach knows kaladin killed one of her sons

[@brandonwolfsohn4886]

​@@king_dotyeahhhhh, that conversation might be a bit awkward...

[@OK25000]

*nale whistling nervously &, sweating in the background*​@@brandonwolfsohn4886

[@Buphido]

Oooh yeah that’s right, he DID kill her eldest son, didn’t he…

[@joshuabowers2920]

@@king_dotHelaran is not Chana’s son.

[@dentelos5658]

Kal has been trying to throw one liners through the whole series. I see it as a character quirk and love it.

[@jadencasto]

I agree that the way the Taln moment was handled was perfect! I also loved the little Ash moment: “This time, I won’t let him go alone,” said with a smile on her face. I, like everyone else, freaking loves Taln, and while I’m excited for him to be a flashback character in the back half - I’m especially excited to see his attempted assignation of Cultivation - I’m a little nervous that he works better as the beacon of light and awesomeness that gets one epic moment a book than as a standard character.

[@Haxerous]

When they said he tried to kill Cultivation, I was like, yup completely understandable.

[@Disti23]

Well Cultivation shouldn’t have been a dragon if she didn’t want to be slain.

[@salmonofknowledge3229]

Hear me out: Dalinar is not dead, he was taken by Valor. What he did at the end, sacrificing the ultimate power, took a lot of valor, so i think the shard Valor took him, in some way, and in the second half we will see Dalinar v. The Blackthorn.

[@Scottcrestline]

I agree that Dalinar isn’t dead and I definitely believe there will be a showdown with him and the Blackthorn as well. Or at least Dalinar is going to be an integral part of the story in the future like it will start in the interludes of the 6th book but come to a head in book 10

[@Zudovader]

This is exciting. Rhythm of War discussion was my introduction to your channel so here were are again with a stormlight release and the nostalgia is kicking.

[@frankhewitt1986]

Stormlight is his magnum opus, but Mistborn appears to be the main driver of the Cosmere. Sanderson even said it himself that the main story/timeline will end with Mistborn era 4.

[@johnhogue9402]

Roshar is entering its Lord Ruler phase.

[@Gosiapon]

Adolin’s story was the best for me

[@sgnox7781]

Adolin was really the best my only issues was that her bringing deadeyes was too telegraphed still hit hard and was a badass moment, and yanagawn was pretty bland as in character could use more flushing out still the lesson were fun

[@Gosiapon]

@ this is so strange but at some point I completely forgot about Maya! I thought she was gone forever.

[@BernardBronston]

The Blackthorn-duplicate-Dalinar feels a bit like Brandan is having his cake and eating it to where Dalinar both gets a heroic self sacrifice and gets to be Odium's champion. I was kind of hoping we would get Dalinar nobly submitting himself to Odium as an ultimate journey-before-destination and even a bad end can be made good somehow. But I am still satisfied with what we got. I think I might come around to the Blackthorn thing if he ends up being treated as a tenth unmade and something that is fundamentally distinct from Dalinar rather then drawing a lot of "is this really dalinar?" drama with every character The Blackthorn comes across. Some attention has been given to why there is only ten unmade and I've always kind of thought it was because Odium was shard #9 but if we have Retribution I'm not sure that he would have the same limitation.

[@lachlankidd6517]

Brandon did mention before the release of the book that he had a character make a significantly different choice than what he originally intended in the outline. I assume now that WaT probably originally ended with Dalinar becoming Odium's, but Brandon changed it and had to bring in the Blackthorn to cover the relevant plot points in the back half

[@BernardBronston]

@@lachlankidd6517 I think it Dalinar's death is one of those times I was glad to be wrong about something (as much fun, for me, as it might be to have Dalinar go through hell as Odium's champion). Just interested in what he's going to do with the Blackthorn going forward because as it stands right now the Blackthorn is an evil clone of a character we already knew and cared about.

[@neonprofit]

I was thinking that the blackthorn-shadow-Dalinar is the 10th unmade because 10 is of honor, which is of course part of Retribution now, so leaving it at odium 9 would be discordant

[@BernardBronston]

@@neonprofit As a combination of Honor and Odium I'm not sure how much Retribution would be limited in doing things as a function of 9's or 10's. Maybe Honor would adhere to 10 more. But I think the big thing I wanted to say is that Odium isn't limited to 9. Though if he can go back to 9 then we could have an Unmade swap sides. Become a Remade, for lack of a better term.

[@Grux_ASG]

I really diden't get the vibe the "blackthorn" would be dalinar 2.0, but an Unmade monster that crawls out onto battlefields and starts killing people.

[@lilyeves892]

a replacement for the thrill maybe

[@ania4802]

I like this

[@ksauce7]

45:30 Calling it now. The prologues of books 6-10 will be flashbacks to the end of the contest and the death of Dalinar. That is where the scene will get to breath after being so rushed here.

[@franzi2354]

I get that Kaladin storyline is maybe not that refined. But god I just love this bridgeboy that it all really worked for me. That ending had me low-key sobbing at 4am in my bedroom.

[@philsajor6724]

Finally glad to hear a bunch of fans gushing about a great book. Sure it has its flaws, but honestly it was a massive task to stick this landing and boy did it deliver. It was a bumpy ride but man did it deliver. Thanks for all the positivity guys. So glad for Brandon for sharing this great work to all of us 😊

[@Sp00nShark]

I think shallans communication started before the events of lost metal and during her chat the crisis with Autonomy concluded which is what kelsier alluded to.

[@madeleinehoward3418]

I think it’s Cultivation who has a claim on Dalinar’s soul! When he got his boon/curse I think that gave her power over him!

[@slidenaway]

Oooohhh good shout

[@certainlyJesse]

In one of the earlier chapters Kaladin notices somehow a rock got into his travel bag and decides to keep it. I assumed this was going to be something to do with his brother. But then it’s just never mentioned again? Did I miss something?

[@ksauce7]

I thought it was supposed to be Szeth’s oathstone and it would be used in the confrontation with how he had been manipulated, but it never came up again

[@certainlyJesse]

@ interesting, I think it briefly mentions how “colorless” it is which I thought was a reference to how his brother would wet them to get colour. I think it’s mentioned in the kaladin flash backs

[@birdfrog6266]

When Maya’s personality came out and she felt a lil piratey or kinda like Veil. I like it honestly.

[@Williamtolduso]

The video ive been waiting. I think it's my comment you referred to early in the video. Glad it got you hyped while reading :)

[@adekunlebademosi6756]

Did you notice that Syl seems to be able to access Honor’s perpendicularity or something similar? Her eyes are different and a bit like the stormfather at the refounding of the oathpact. Given Honor creates few splinters before combining with Odium, (just like Odium created a. New splinter (Ba-Ado-Mishraim) when he was about to fight Tanavast at Nathanatan). So stormlight might return in some form when the Heralds and Syl return.

[@DarkChaos1986]

Ishar can summon Honor perpendicularity anytime he wishes. So, by force, stormlight will return with the Heralds.

[@adekunlebademosi6756]

@@DarkChaos1986ishar couldn’t summon stormlight when Kal and Szeth needed it

[@AlphaHoarder]

I loved your analysis of the death rattles... great video series! Awesome conversation, your enthusiasm is totally my vibe. I was listening to the 17thshard reviewers and they basically hate every arc, every plot point, every character… It was depressing. My reactions were very similar to yours… I was laser focused during all of those Herald scenes trying to see how Shallan would react. I didn't know if she knew and was suppressing it or was going to figure it out in front of us. It was awesome.

[@DK-fk7mx]

First time listener. I just want to say thank you. Great show and ill definitely be back. 17th shard had a listener stolen today lol

[@aliesez]

Finished the book and when I read that baby Gav was Odium's champion, I immediately thought of you guys and this channel! 😂 I hated that theory when first heard it, but was surprised at how well he pulled it off. It fit so we'll with something that Taravangian would do to Dalinar.

[@lilyeves892]

I didn't see it coming because I hadn't heard of that theory beforehand but I was fully expecting one or more characters to be aged up in the spiritual since they made such a big deal about time passing strangely there

[@BobSmith-ci9mv]

Oh yes, the "Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do" part was funny. I think I laughed the hardest at that part. And I also looked ahead for the chapter arches too.

[@brandeelancaster]

Adolin was a ROCK START!!!! I'M IN MY SECOND READING. MORE EXCITED THIS TIME!

[@Sp00nShark]

Sanderson has laid out the timeline since the beginning and it's a known fact that era 4 (previously era 3) of scadrial will happen after stormlight 10. So mistborn is probably the main series to tie all of cosmere. 31:13

[@undbiter65]

Sanderson writing had me feeling iffy about this book. Felt his weakest since elantris. Modern phrasing, over explained plot points and bad humor. Then the last 1/4 came and I remember why I love this man's work. I hope the 10 year gap allows a return to form from Sanderson

[@MrSamman]

The writing had me iffy but the book had me hooked I don’t know if it was it being the culmination of 16 years (hah 16) of material all leading to this point and the hype from waiting for it for so long or if it genuinely had me. There were definitely some pretty cringe moments that took me out i.e. Wit and Lift cursing with earth curse words, Shallan’s terrible jokes, the Syladin stuff at the beginning, the rushed writing towards the end i.e. repeating his famous “Honor’s dead…” line “I’m his therapist” It feels as if his characters became flat like a carbonated beverage left out for too long. This being said I finished this book in four days, Sanderson continues to be my favorite author and I look forward to seeing him improve.

[@Haxerous]

1:00:55 the reason for that is Braize. Honor had to lock the fused on braize and the Heralds were that lock. Now they aren't doing that. Now they are trying to prevent Retribution grom sucking up the spren (keeping him out). They don't need to gp to Braize. Also Honor is gone and the Heralds are way more juiced up than they were during the creation of the first Oathpact. Ishar now has way more power amd freedom to do what he wants.

[@johnhogue9402]

Did you finish the book?

[@lachlankidd6517]

To clarify, it does say their souls still return to Braize. It is just their minds that are preserved in a vision. I think it's more so that Honor simply didn't care enough or have enough time to think of the solution. The power of Honor may have thought it more honorable to endure pain rather than a nice holiday.

[@Haxerous]

@@lachlankidd6517 I agree that Honor/Tanavast didn't care for them or what would happen to them on Braize. But they are sent to Braize this time mostly because of how that planet works (i.e. attracts investiture and therefore cognitive shadows). They don't NEED to go there in terms of Intent because there's no purpose for it.

[@lachlankidd6517]

@@Haxerous Yeah, I get that they are sent to Braize for mechanical reasons, I was just referring to the fact that Honor may have been able to preserve their minds in the original oathpact if Tanavast had put more thought into it (or if the power of Honor was more sympathetic). At least on a brief re-read of the ending scene it seems like its just a new idea that the Wind presented, not a previously unavailable option.

[@Haxerous]

@lachlankidd6517 yeah no I agree. Honor/Tanavast didn't think beyond the Oaths, and wasn't really sympathetic towards the Heralds and what it would cost them. By the time he does they are already at Aharetiam. TBF though I don't think Ishar (and the other Heralds) realised this when they signed up for the job otherwise he would have suggested something else.

[@darcy7257]

I loved the ending, hated how it got there. Ironic for journey before destination

[@thisylvain]

What I liked most in the book (that I don't hear talked about), is the theme of choosing to talk/discuss/debate instead of fighting.

[@christopheryoder8292]

Regarding the assassination contract, Jasnah did have two envelopes in her prologue. Sanderson even made a point to have her really consider which path she wanted to take... assassination or surveillance.

[@johntybagend]

I finished the book about a week ago, I’ve been looking for some premium unpacking content. Great podcast guys, looking forward to the rest.

[@VallelYuln]

1:11:55 The light isn't gone. There seems to still be warlight and towerlight. I expect them to be able to create stormlight from either to reactivate the oathgates

[@brennanpeterhunt]

Just finished the book yesterday and absolutely loved it! I agree some of the writing / editing felt a little unpolished, but it’s probably my 3rd favorite in the series. The journey each of these characters went on I absolutely loved. Back half is gonna be dope!!!!

[@carrieonaccessibility]

This video was 9 days ago and ever since it came out I've been waiting and waiting for the next video.... I literally went from not knowing about this channel to binge watching it and trying to wait. Oh so patiently for the next episode..... 😭

[@funnerz]

Taravangian interludes were chef’s kiss 😙🤌

[@eliasjonassen2240]

So you have any idea which death rattle might be Kaladins 5th ideal

[@jonvalett6708]

I think your guys' opinions are pretty in line with mine on this one. I loved reading this book and have been thinking about it since I finished it.

[@EnderGraff1]

36:10 in Brandon’s Elden Ring videos, he talks about loving the Godskin Duo boss!

[@Blkfish]

There is quite literally an archive of stormlight in Lasting Integrity

[@Williamtolduso]

No spoilers for book 6!!

[@mich7008]

listened to this episode on spotify!! Loved hearing what you guys had to say about your experience!

[@tannersturgeon2448]

Just finished. I bow to your knowledge of the Diagram, Brightlords

[@kairi99roxas]

I love Yaunagawn's character development so much, he is one of my favorite characters now!

[@ginganinja9935]

No ars arcanum was crazy, I kinda wish there was something, even if Khriss just said things are weird now

[@matthewrlowe1]

I love what you guys do with this podcast!! Unfortunately a lot of toxic fandom in the comments. Seems like a lot of folx are mad that the story didn’t end how they wanted it to. 😢 Also, to add to your tinfoil collection Nohadon = Adonalsium

[@maeperegrine6327]

People are allowed to have their own opinions, that doesn't make them toxic

[@matthewrlowe1]

@@maeperegrine6327that’s not actually a relevant argument based on my initial statement. What you said is true but opinions and toxicity aren’t mutually exclusive.

[@etarckneus9702]

Ah yes, it wasn’t the plot that had problems, it was all those toxic fans who didn’t get what they wanted. How convenient. The last time I heard this kind of arguments was when some people where still coping about the Last Jedi.

[@Uwu____f]

@@etarckneus9702bro comparing WaT to the last Jedi is actually crazy

[@tct8284]

Nohadon is the son of Tanavast who is also Kaladin’s mother’s ancestor and old dark eye family.

[@007Rincewind]

I think the reason he can redo the plact is that the old pact has broke. So he redo the pact with new benifits and costs. Also the Heralds had no clue about the torture before the first oathpact.

[@chrispearce374]

Plus the wind now reawakened gave Ishar the knowledge to be able to do it

[@lilyeves892]

Also I got the impression that honour wouldn't let them change the oathpact while he was still alive. He thought it worked fine

[@DeanCookCreative]

Great listen lads.

[@madcapZ]

41:33 - what am I missing about the ocean spren leaving a part of?

[@petermulenga4252]

The 'buddy' part really does stick in your head 😂

[@Jacobadia]

Can someone explain the “rapture” or exodus they are talking about at 41:00 ? I don’t remember that part of the book

[@mcintyre0591]

The Iriali all leaving Roshar at once through the giant ocean spren.

[@Cpod97]

I've come to love the "Blackthorn" being separate from Dalinar ending. After Oathbringer ive always had the feeling that, although Dalinar has done all he could to amend his honour after the terrible things he did, he had still not fully received recompensed for his actions. His blackthorn reputation manifesting into something beyond his control feels like a poetic end to his story in that although he had changed his ways his sins were such that he could never truly amend for them and that is represented in the blackthorn.

[@vegapunkrecords]

I am the biggest Jasnah plotline defender of all time. One must not forget that 54:18 - Taravangian DID show a memory. Playing back Jasnah’s own words interrupting her was the final nail in the coffin to convince Fen to act in her own self interest.

[@codywatkins17]

I’m so glad I am not the only one who looked at all the arches upon getting the book. Y’all need to reread chapter 10 of sunlit man before recording one of these podcasts Wit has a story about a moon becoming a person on oathbringer Rysn is definitely building a spaceship I think editing has begun on white sand Sorry for the long comment P.s. because of yall my bingo card was very full

[@nomnomnom298]

I think this has got to be my favorite of the series. Primarily because I thoroughly enjoyed reading all of the book, even the weaker parts (Jasnah portion primarily). Previous books had certain povs that I did not quite enjoy but I had no issues with this one.

[@jadencasto]

Totally agree, and I think the fact that POVs changed so often meant that even if there was a POV or section I was less interested in, I didn’t have to last through it for over an hour!

[@tacotruck13]

The Mayalaran saying sl*t didn't break the emersion for me. Maybe it's because I spent so many years in the military. I look at her like an old grizzled veteran, who just says out-of-pocket things sometimes. It would have been a more common word before all of the refinement that came after the fall of the radiants.

[@boppy9617]

It only broke my immersion because it seemed so crass for a Sanderson. I totally agree about her personality though, and the word is used elsewhere, Wit makes a pun with it in WoK

[@jasonbailey9139]

Two things I hear a lot of criticism for and I had absolutely no problems with: 1) Kaladin’s inept attempts at therapy. He’s the first therapist on Roshar. He doesn’t know what he’s doing, but he knows what worked for the people he’s helped. He hasn’t had years of training and his interpersonal skills aren’t great. I thought it was well portrayed. 2) the language in the books. This book isn’t from the Middle Ages. It’s from Roshar and was translated into our language by someone who speaks our language and idioms. Why do people reading non-earth epic fantasy expect there to be no modern terms? The swears are in world. That’s enough world building for me as far as language goes.

[@slidenaway]

Spot on. I’ve made myself mad reading/listening to things like the 17th Shard’s KZbin reactions. Their criticisms are, mostly, just over the top nitpicking or overthinking everything. Just let yourself enjoy things!!!

[@Vinflowerfield]

Ok so here are some counterpoints. 1) Kaladin is just not well suited for the role of a therapist. His worldview and understanding of others is pretty limited. He is the first therapist therefore it's okay if he's bad is not a good argument because imagine how many other people live on Roshar who can do "therapy" way way better than him even if they are the first to do that as a job. A lot of the criticism also comes from the fact that he just suddenly and completely transforms into a therapist over the span of not even a couple months. 2) even if assuming that the language was translated it still doesn't justify the writing affecting immersion. That's just bad writing.

[@jasonbailey9139]

@ 1) it must be wonderful to be perfect in everything you do from the get go. “Tell me about your mother.” Sigmund Freud is largely laughed at these days, but he made great strides in his day for getting therapy recognized. If anything I like Kaladin more for being kind of inept, but continuing to try. It gives room for growth. Sorry he didn’t have everything perfectly planned from the beginning and made missteps, but somehow, if he had, you’d likely be complaining about how unrealistic that was, too. 2) this is so subjective it’s ridiculous. I realize it happens. Do you get bounced out of aSoIaF when they use the F word? It wasn’t a swear word back in those days, so it should bounce you out. If the language of a fictitious world is bouncing you out, it’s totally a you thing because you’re projecting your thoughts of their language onto a world someone else created. I agree it can happen and I’ve had many a book bounce me out, but I wouldn’t call it bad writing. It’s just a stylist choice you don’t agree with and that’s a fair position.

[@Vinflowerfield]

@@jasonbailey9139 1) I don't expect him to be perfect, I just don't like what he's doing because what he is doing is bringing down my reading experience and my view of that character. That's it. That's my point. What he's doing in book 5 is not the Kaladin I've been reading for the last 4 books. It's subjective. 2) I didn't read A song of ice and fire so I can't comment. In my experience the writing in the 5th book wasn't as good as the others.

[@etarckneus9702]

1) I would have less problems with the « he isn’t that good at it yet » if he also didn’t succeed on all the people he tried with. He was three for three at the end of the book. 2) Eh… in the end it come down to the individual but it took me out of the story multiple time.

[@johnhogue9402]

Dalinar learned the same lesson as the computer from War Games.

[@dbochnicek]

Syladin is totally a thing now that they are both cognative shadows.

[@micahlarimer155]

1:11:00 Insane that WoK drops on re-reads. By far my favorite to re-read, the Shallan parts are better on every re-read (granted they were so boring on the first read). There is so much gained on re-reads of WoK.

[@lyric9285]

happy to find someone who has good things to say about the book. reading this book i was locked in the whole time seen people say this book was an absolute grind but i found the middle part of oathbringer way more slow and boring then this was

[@aj2563]

Initial thoughts before watching this video, they’ll sound a bit critical, but that shouldn’t obfuscate my enjoyment and love of the book and series as a whole. Wind and Truth was a 7/10 for me. Felt slightly underwhelmed by the reveals and endings, but perhaps that can be attributed to listening and theorizing with Stormlight experts such as yourselves. Brandon’s prose and word choice felt rather modern and was more jarring for me than his other novels. I’m not sure if this could be attributed to my preferences as a reader shifting. When talking about characters, it felt like Brandon did a lot more telling rather than showing. I think he underestimates his audience’s reading comprehension skills. I also think the mental heath focus was heavy handed and would have been better served by more subtlety. I think the book could have been trimmed down and edited better. It just didn’t read like Peak Sanderson and I wonder if he’s spreading himself too thin, where the quality will decline because of the quantity of cosmere novels. All that to say, he delivered on the first part of a massive fantasy epic series that I love, I mean, I am lost in Roshar after all. Can’t wait to hear both of your thoughts!

[@aj2563]

Looks like a lot of my sentiments were echo’d by you guys. Appreciated y’all highlighting all the good as well!

[@codywatkins17]

Extended edition?

[@ThrowbackGaming1]

This had to be an excruciatingly difficult book to write, he had to: 1. End this arc, while also setting up the entire next arc. 2. Add bits of info that probably seem irrelevant now but will likely end up in new cosmere books or the send arc. 3. Figure out how to do the time dilation and how it affects people on Roshar vs. rest of the cosmere like Wit back on Scadrial, Kelsier talking to Shallan at the end, etc.

[@brandonwolfsohn4886]

I actually really liked the scene where Kaladin realizes that Szeth is more like Tien than himself. Kaladin realized he's coming at Szeth from a completely wrong angle. He just assumed that Szeth was just like him with his mixed feelings about fighting, loving the fight while hating killing. Kaladin doesn't think of his going to war as a tragedy, it's his inability to protect people while at war that's a tragedy. But for Tien, going to war and being in a fight at all IS the tragedy. Kaladin realizes that Szeth is more similar to that.

[@Thecurseofsanity]

I hated when Kaladin reused that line. It felt like he was looking right at the audience and the "Please Clap" sign lit up

[@neonprofit]

I think you’re missing some key characterization of Kal if you took that at face value. You should see the humor in kaladin’s insanely casual wording in that moment. The joke is Kaladin, who is intrinsically cool and an inspiration to so so many, is actually still really awkward and kind of can’t read the room. Kaladin is an emotionally intelligent person but is not a slick socialite and he is not articulate (which he says to us when he is failing to verbally disarm Nale after he joins them in Shinovar).

[@moncala7787]

The reason Ishar is able to change the Oathpact to protect the Heralds minds is simple. When Honor and Ishar first made the oathpact they weren't aware they were going to be tortured on Braize in order for the Fused to return. So now with the knowledge of what actually happens to them upon death he can amend it to protect them mentally. Although for some reason their bodies/souls will still go to Braize.

[@noxtol8778]

Presumably, their souls go to Braize because that planet has "extrange chracateristics" that make it attract souls

[@neonprofit]

@@noxtol8778absolutely why the souls still go to braize. It’s a magnet for lingering souls

[@christopheryoder8292]

Finished the book today and planned an immediate reread. However, my wife told me on 12/5 that I couldn't read it until Christmas bc it was my gift. So, I passed the time by reading the four main novels but I started dreaming that my radiant powers were suppressed and my spren was killed (woke up in a near panic). I need to take a step back for a while.

[@rhettdw144]

I really really really like Kal becoming a herald and his connection to the Wind. Ever since tWoK when he picked up the spear for the first time in months I’ve wondered about the Wind and the possibility of it being something more than a spren. Kal taking Jezrien’s place was something I was 110% convinced of, even without the death rattle. His bond with syl and what this means for her in general is something I won’t stop thinking and worrying about. PLEASE LET OUR SWEETHEART BE OKAY!!!

[@christopheryoder8292]

Love how he balked at being King of Urithiru at the beginning but ended up being King of the Heralds, Herald of Kings.

[@birdfrog6266]

I believe the reason Ishar can do that with their minds is because they arent fighting right now. They are on braize and the void bringers are on Roshar so He can put their minds elsewhere while they heal and get stronger.

[@gabrielasepulveda3903]

Ok but is shallan pregnant?! It's mentioned she holds her stomach when she's trapped in shadesmar

[@joshbil197]

With the moon thing, it lines up heavily with the odd nature of the natanatan people. In a wob brandon said they theyre blue ish skin tone was not related to spren/human mixing. Additionally, when tanavast describes their city it sounds incredibly different and far more advanced than others on roshar. We know invention travels the cosmere building wonders, what if they were the 4th moon that crashed into roshar? Idk man but theres alot unanswered with natan

[@johnhogue9402]

Remember those perfect gemstones that are able to hold stormlight indefinitely? Do they still have their stormlight, or was Mr. T able to reclaim that as well? When Radiants meet a new ideal, will they still get a massive amount of stormlight? If so, the smart thing to do, would be to infuse as many gems as possible (assuming they’re not in need of that light at that moment). How available will voidlight be? Will warlight become the major form of available investiture on Roshar? No fabriels are functional at the end of the book, except for ones that were using something other than storm light (very few). The people of Roshar just lost all their advanced technology.

[@HollowKonpaku]

Man, this book was so hard for me to pick up every time. I guess I didn’t have the same experience as you. It felt like a slog.

[@scajl]

Still not sure what happens to Syl (maybe I missed this in my super fast read, but seems unresolve). Is she with Kaladin or is she still on Roshar waiting for him to return? Are they still somehow connected, if apart? I also wonder if she is the one that can bring back Stormlight, but only when/while the Heralds return. I also agree that Adolin's jouney in the book was the best, by far, than anything else. I am on my second (slow) re-read now... I am sure some of my questions will be answered as I really pay a lot more attention, rather than tryign to rush to the end of the book.

[@BobSmith-ci9mv]

Just reread the postlude for info about Syl

[@scajl]

@ Yes. But is she only partially there, like Kaladin and the other heralds, or fully with him (and if not, where is she physically?). And is she now more than just a spen, some form of honourblade? It appears as if she is somehow replacing the Stormfather… and hence my questions around Stormlight.

[@tacotruck13]

​@scajl, that's what I felt like as well. She is with Kal, but when the Harolds return, she will take up her father's place. Somehow all the time in the other realm will imbue her with more investiture. In the way of King's beta, I think she was the east wind, so her becoming the storm would be full circle.

[@boppy9617]

She is there Kelek mentions her in the postlude

[@lilyeves892]

I would have thought more people would remember you can separate stormlight out of mixed light considering it was a major plotpoint in rhythm of war

[@keniafarias9576]

Remember that there are no more storms. Retribution has to grant the light; as he does for the listener. So if the radiants don’t have war light… they can’t split it.

[@lilyeves892]

@keniafarias9576 but they do have access to tower light

[@Haxerous]

This book is a weird one for me. I liked it over all, the ending landed but in terms of standalone quality it felt a bit lacking. I didn't feel the emotional weight of it as much as I did in the previous books. Szeth's stuff came pretty close, but it sometimes got a bit overshadowed by Kaladin's presence. I think part of it is because we already got a lot of the character stuff for him in the previous books and so only the emotion stuff was left for this one. With Adolin it felt the opposite. There's a lot of good character stuff but not as much emotions. In places it felt very hand holdey/hand of the author in a way the previous books haven't felt. And I think this is the only Stormlight book where there are chapters and dialogue that I actively disliked.

[@sovereignprints_217]

what do you guys make of Brandon confirming that we've seen cremlings in Mistborn?

[@birdfrog6266]

I wish that when Tarravagian pulled Dalinar back he would have been told his soul is spoken for and not gave him words.

[@Rhedak]

I was a bit disappointed Ishar wasn't more of a villain

[@BooksWithBenghisKahn]

Such a fun discussion! Seems like I had a very similar experience to you guys where I was engaged but bothered by all the inelegant telling of feelings and maybe just not having the same emotional experience as I did with the first 4 books. Still so many cool things happened and can’t wait to see the fallout from all of it.

[@ramspencer5492]

Kal was absolutely foreshadowed by Fleet..... For Kal, it was about what I thought.... Like it didn't seem like you could end up as a herald how they had been..... But I knew he was going to become something like that... I know ODIUM was kind of going to win.... But this was way more satisfying way of doing that! Adolin was great! I wouldn't mind if he had another awesome lead editor, to replace the one that they lost. One is a master of catching those little bits of writing that are a bit jarring or too on the nose and take a little away from immersion.

[@neonprofit]

So what’s up with Nohadon? What is he? Just a guy living it up baking bread and eating butter in retirement in the afterlife? Which sounds like a great afterlife by the way. But is there more to that?

[@rhettdw144]

Im pretty certain we’ll learn in arc 2 but what the hell is this guy. I’ve reread that part just to try and understand him more but I’m getting nowhere

[@Haxerous]

I think the whole point with the Blackthorn is that he is not Dalinar as we know him. He is more Spren than a person (probably going to end up as an Unmade). It's not the same as the Heralds or even Kelsier. I think I like it less from a mechanics stand point (felt a bit wishy washy) and what that implies for future cosmere characters that might die.

[@johnhogue9402]

Since the Heralds modified the oathpact, do they even need to stay on Braise? If they come back, it’s not going to start a new desolation. So, are they just hiding? Without Stormlight, they won’t be able to use their surges. Ishar, apparently can’t use his surges at all, so he won’t be able to create a perpendicularity, and thus won’t be able to provide Stormlight for his Heralds.

[@lachlankidd6517]

The people of Kharbranth didnt die! They were removed into the spiritual realm (like the protagonists were on day 2) before dying, so they can theoretically come back. Its also important to note that Taravangian refers to the secret as dangerous, so its likely that Kharbranth is very relevant in the second half.

[@declanwain7581]

How did you not open with the Target story???!

[@MARYCALLOWAY-s4u]

Warlight!

[@adamborst]

Trying to avoid this until I'm finished with the book but I'm hoping there's a mention about the cremling that Wit saves with Lift when the perpendicularity collapses in day 2. Haven't gotten much past that but hoping there's some more Sleepless in the book later on.

[@ethanbrinkman3401]

My theory: the fourth moon was of Adonalsium. When he was splintered, the moon splintered. Also who claimed dalinar? Is adonalsium the God Beyond?

[@nachoalfonso2614]

I personally believe the book should have been published later and edited better. But still, I had fun reading it and it paid off a lot of character development for the main cast.

[@NoorAhmed-nk2jq]

I'm glad I came to this video as it seems the reaction around the internet is more on the negative side but I loved the book so much so I need some time before I'm ready for the nitpicks. My only gripe is the book felt relentless, I don't know if the 10 day pacing works out but it didn't end up being that big of a deal as you guys said. It also remined me of A memory of light which also felt overwhelming and relentless. Though I'm sad I got some Sunlit man spoilers because my sister advised me to wait until after Wind and Truth to read it, that said I'd rather Sunlit man be spoiled for me than you all who read it and had Wind and Truth spoiled for you lol, what was Brandon thinking with that release order?!

[@micahlarimer155]

I would like to see some more discussion from Brandon in future books on Nightblood's rapid changes in WaT. His entire persona was his inability to change and form lasting memories. Perhaps Brandon will tie the changes back to the fact that when Nightblood consumed Rayse, it was a sufficient amount of investiture to allow him to change. That sounds cool to me. Granting surges is still a bit odd. WaT mentioned that he spoke with inanimate objects often but I kind of feel like that only began this book.... I feel like maybe previous books could have had Nightblood commenting on what inanimate objects communicate to him.

[@petermulenga4252]

Wit told the people about how to get surges .. and the surges on arshyn had no guard rails so the planet burned