Wing Chun Face-Off: Comparing Lineage Differences!

[@KevinLeeVlog]

Does any of our form looks similar to yours?

[@acejericho8616]

IP Man wing Chun more advance

[@Acer7y]

for me both of you are good and when it xomes ro dight it depends on the person on hkw he use her techniqe both of you are good i hope some day i learn wing chun to form philipines❤️

[@Acer7y]

wing chun is not famous in the philipines i hope someday we have wing chun school here cau se i really like it 🙁

[@VikingMale]

Similar to White Crane

[@Deathbystrudel]

Yes, but that's because my sifu was a disciple of Francis Fong as well (and his guro was Dan Inosanto)

[@KnowPorcelain1]

Not a Wing Chun practioner, but been involved in martial arts for over 40 years and had the pleasure of cross training with many art forms, the part that interested me was the difference in outcome of the horizontal fist and the vertical fist, both small circle subtle adjustments giving two different attack opportunities and both disguised within natural movement. thats why I enjoy your content Mr Lee.

[@Hboxph002]

Have you tried FMA? Arnis?

[@KnowPorcelain1]

@@Hboxph002 I have tried FMA, Pencak Silat and Moro Silat (Mindanao), not crossed trained in Arnis, but have trained with a couple of Arnis experienced guys that have formed a system called Keysi.

[@raydrexler5868]

Horizontal (twisting punch) was invented purely to cut with gloves on.

[@KnowPorcelain1]

@@raydrexler5868 maybe, but its useful without gloves.

[@clivemclean3390]

Thanks for writing that comment for me. 😅

[@SifuNate]

Great crossing paths with you brother! I hope I see you in Tokyo again soon!! 😃🙌

[@rookiecookie722]

Thanks for showing your styles!

[@KevinLeeVlog]

I hope so too!!!

[@FrostshadowStudios0310]

Fantastic work, gentlemen.

[@MikePrime13]

Hi Kevin and Sifu Nate, Thank you so much for making the video. I've practiced Wing Chun under both the CST lineage and currently the Leung Ting branch, and I suppose I'm closer to what Kevin is doing compared to Sifu Nate. Having said that, I fully support the idea that wing chun practitioners in this day and age, should stop the "my sifu is better than your sifu" internal discord, but instead sharing and comparing the techniques from different lineages to learn and appreciate how the techniques are taught and applied from the different lineages. These cross learning videos (the one that Kevin did with Jesse Enkamp re Wing Chun and Karate similarities) help to educate everyone that there are more things in common in so many different types of martial arts rather than the differences. In fact, the ultimate form of martial arts, in my mind, is not a specific form, but rather the culmination of the individual's strength, intelligence, experience, and spiritual being that allows said individual to successfully handle a dangerous physical encounter with other human beings by appropriately acting and/or responding to the physical movements of his or her opponent at the time. For example, if there is an incoming punch and a person successfully and intuitively parries that punch in a manner that would be considered a textbook pak sau in wing chun, but that person doesn't even know what wing chun is, would that still be considered a successful pak sau? Does it matter as long as the punch is successfully parried? To me, these videos and collaborations are positive progress in the development and evolution of wing chun as an art -- it allows an open, collaborative forum for practitioners from different lineages to share and compare notes of how things are done in their respective lineages, without the negative baggage of oh this won't work etc. Wing Chun is a living art, and it lives through the experiences and insights of all of the practitioners throughout generations of teaching and learning. My dream is someday to be able to say confidently like say the famous line from Leung Bik (portrayed by GM Ip Chun) in the Ip Man: The Legend is Born: "Whatever comes out from my hand, that is Wing Chun." While I dont' think I'll get there in my lifetime, I think the educational and insightful videos published by Kevin Lee really help other practitioners like me to learn and appreciate the beauty of Wing Chun as a martial arts. Thanks, and best wishes.

[@mjb7015]

Well said

[@krumbergify]

I trained Wing Tsun in the year 2000s and there was a lot of trash talk both about other martial arts and other branches of Wing Chun / Wing Tsun and a lot of stories about how someone from our linage once kicked the crap out of a challenger from another style. I never saw anyone engage with friendly sparring with anyone outside our club though and to be honest, no real sparring ever took place even during training. Our Sifu claimed that Wing Tsun is “scientific” because of the “center line theory”, but again nobody bothered to actually test this theory against reality. I didn’t mean to dunk on Wing Chun / Wing Tsun as arts. I just remembered how the culture was twenty+ years ago. I really hope that people are more open minded and eager to actually test things during light sparring instead of relying on holy linages and “secret knowledge”.

[@xAllObj]

Kevin, your Style looks more like the Ip Chun school. It‘s always interesting, but Wing Chun really depends on the person who teaches it and has to be adapted for everyone.

[@PooleAcademyofWingChun]

It shouldn’t be adApted that’s why there is so much shit wing chun

[@xAllObj]

@@PooleAcademyofWingChun a misunderstanding, sorry, of course the form should be the same.

[@hamasmillitant1]

i dont have a form, but dad did teach shingi bahqua and taichi so i recognise most of the motions and i did notice kevins stance was closer to northern stance than his sparing partner (or maybe it was other way round i always getting the knee & foot angle mixed up) but pretty sure its southern style that has knees and toes pointed in for there horse stance and starting position

[@lucagaio964]

As someone whos done 15+ years of wing chun this is so interesting to see differences in lineage 🤝🏼 Both so different to what i Train/ Teach Loving the content

[@wingchun-sc]

I really enjoyed this one. Seeing the subtle differences, but more importantly, having them explained. This is the sort of thing I have been interested in for a long time.

[@blech71]

Coming from Korean arts (both Taeguk/Poomsae TKDO) I found this so interesting to watch. Both technique and doctrine/ethos breakdowns was awesome to see them dive into.

[@gboy9604]

I have found Kevin Lee's form is practiced in a more karate like way with more time, a more definitive snap at the end of his techniques.

[@alexanderren1097]

I noticed the discussion about C-stepping and how it’s meant to be a setup for a foot sweep. We do C-steps in Karate too. I never got a satisfactory reason when I first started out in modern sport Shotokan but after doing some digging and watching Iain Abernathy, Patrick McCarthy, and others I’ve found the main purpose of our C-step in Karate is ALSO for setting up sweeps, hip throws, and other takedowns. Good stuff!

[@BluntInnit]

THE C STEP HAS OTHER PURPOSES TOO. IF YOU STEP DIRECTLY FORWARD YOU WILL CONNECT WITH YOU OPPONENT'S SHIN, SO EVEN IF NOT SWEEPING OR THROWNING, YOU AVOID THE LEAD LEG. THE OTHER REASON IS ALTHOUGH IT'S A BIGGER MOVEMENT THAN STEPPING FORWARD IT IS LESS TELEGRAPHED AS THE WEIGHT DOESN'T SURGE TO THE OTHER LEG AS IT WOULD IF YOU JUST STEPPED. TO SEE, LOOK AT YOUR HEAD IN A MIRROR WHEN C STEPPING COMPARED TO JUST STEPPING YOUR FOOT FORWARD TO THE SAME POINT. WITH THE C STEP YOU CONTROL YOUR WEIGHT. ALSO AS 100% OF WEIGHT IS ON YOUR ROOT LEG YOU ARE NOT COMMITTED AND CAN REVERSE THE MOTION OR PERFORM A KICK INSTEAD. IF THERE IS ANYTHING YOU THINK IS ODD IN MARTIAL ARTS ALWAYS ASK THE REASON, NEVER JUST GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS BECAUSE YOU DON''T UNDERSTAND A MOVE. YOU DO YOURSELF NO FAVOURS BY JUST GETTING THROUGH A PART OF A FORM, AS YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG AND INGRAINING BAD HABBITS

[@kevionrogers2605]

Kevin's forms are closedt to what I do since I practiced at Francis Fong about 20 years ago. I first learned from Sifu Shawn in Middletown who is Moy Yat lineage then when I moved to Alpharetta GA I learned from Francis Fong. There was I guy who I went to High School with from Vietnam who did snake style wing chun & I knew a Filipino who did a branch of that style too. I also attended a few seminars on pin sun side body & William Chung lineage Wing Chun, so what I do isn't a single lineage. One of the weapons I learned was a hatchet as a Wing Chun weapon.

[@benjaminpujols1914]

It was really cool to see two different people doing their version that was awesome

[@arthemas8176]

Amazing video I never expected to see Sifu Nate and Kevin Lee in one video. Those Wing Chun forms were so flawless regardless their variations

[@mattjorgensen2267]

Watching you both, I see aspects of both your lineages in my own form. Love your vids Kevin. Would love to see discourse between yourself and The Kung Fu Genius on all things WC. That would be fascinating. Love and respect to you. Matt Jorgensen, Victor Harbor Wing Chun, Australia.

[@camiloiribarren1450]

Oh this is awesome. So cool to compare and contrast lineages. Hope to see Kevin meet Adam Chan for wing chin practice

[@ernie644]

I am training Wing Chun for more than 30 years. One thing, learned over the years: No master has all the answers. So it’s a good idea to cross train in different linages IF you have enough experience. It’s not recommended for beginners. Every linage has its advantages and also drawbacks. In my country 20 years ago there was something like war between the linages, especially Leung Ting and and the others like Wong Shun Leung, but also William Cheung and Lok Yiu. To me, it all was because of money. It was a big business at that time. Concerning the concept and technics, it was totally ridiculous. Every master emphasizes different aspects. Some like more pressure, others prefer sensitivity while others concentrate on sparring. For me, I found out, that after many years your body tells you what is right for you. It depends also on your fighting spirit. Are you more aggressive or more a counter attacker? Are you strong and heavy or more small and weak? So, you have to adopt your style to your personality. In the beginning, I started with Leung Ting, which is very popular in Germany. After 10 years I also analyzed different Linages, especially Wong Shun Leung und William Cheung. I also looked at Randy Williams, Austin Goh, Lo Man Kam, Lok Yiu, Tsui Shang Tin and many more. Later I compared my style with different types of Tai Chi, Kali and Silat. But my biggest advancement was with Rolfing, which is a special type of body refinement. I highly recommend Rolfing especially for practitioners of international arts. After seeing and learning all this, I systematically examined my original style in every detail and adjusted little things that could be optimized. It is important to know that some things are retained for reasons of tradition and respect for one's master. I have freed myself from such things and subjected my entire program to a rigorous analysis. As is so often the case in life, this does not mean that you are finished. You learn your whole life and should always question things. A wise teacher once said: "If your Wing Chun looks the same today as it did 20 years ago, you're doing something wrong" I think, that is correct.

[@jacobharris954]

I started in Randy Williams style. What do you think of crca

[@athens_1psvr31]

I have studied and learned techniques from both of your channels. Great to see y’all together. 🙏🏾👍🏾

[@alexanderren1097]

This is great! I love comparing and contrasting different styles. Currently I’m looking at the different versions of Karate Kata between styles to research applications of the movements. I think cross referencing styles is really useful for that sort of thing

[@amar99ify]

You cook potato into chips, finger chips, mesh potato,boil, at the end of the day all are potatoes...

[@Fastlan3]

I mostly studied in the Leung Ting (WT) branch from Ip Man. Was first introduced to Wing Chun through the William Chang (WC) via Bruce Lee (teachings prior to JKD) mixed with a style called Wu Wei Gung Fu by Prof. Cowles, a student of Bruce Lee that retired near where I grew up. All of the forms have many lessons. I have spent time learning from multiple different lineages, it has been very interesting.

[@adam28171]

Brilliant! Been asking questions of different lineages for a while. Not one person thought of doing a video like this! Next get three different lineages at same time to perform please Kevin.

[@VictorParlati]

Here in 2023 lineage differences are basically meaningless. Because without cross training in other arts wing chun all by itself will not do too well in a REAL fight against a skilled resisting opponent. Who am I to say such a thing ? Someone who trained directly with two of Ip Man’s students… 8 years with Moy Yat 28 years with William Cheung, I ran a school in NYC for 38 years. Began cross training in catch wrestling in 2002 and boxing in 2005. Started mixing all 3 arts in 2008 and retired completely in 2021. Yes there are differences in some of the wing chun lineages and some are better than others. But wing chun no matter what style has some serious limitations. It is very good at what is does - but it doesn’t cover enough.

[@millionsofideas]

I love this. It’s about fostering growth and understanding between same discipline different lineage and also different disciplines. It doesn’t mean we have to agree we just need to get understanding. This is what I think all martial artist should strive to become. It’s about learning and growing through our individual paths. There’s no real right or wrong. Just what’s right for you and what works for you. Keep these amazing videos coming Kevin and thank you Sifu Nate for doing this video!

[@flykyrt81]

You have to go all the way through with Chum Kiu and Biu Jee now! Show us the difference!

[@MrJengo22]

Kevin Lee is like baby Jet Li haha would be great to see you do some stuff on the big screen

[@raphael_2d878]

This is like watching Batman V Superman. 😆

[@macchxero]

Very interesting comparison, it's inspiring to see the differences between these versions of Siu Nim Tou. 👏👏👏 I first learned the form from watching Mr. Ron Balicki's video, and eventually learned it formally from the late Sifu Yip Ching. It's much closer to Kevin's version, only subtle differences here and there. Look forward to more of this BRO! 🤩🤩🤩

[@lycandefensive]

What an awesome comparison. The gems in this video are so many! Thank you Siheng!

[@Beigomaboy]

I could watch this stuff all day. Fascinating!

[@BarFlyChef]

Thank you for the video, it was a refreshing comparison that made me remember a lot of things usually left "in the process of the movement", there is reason in focus, and perspective with true reflection can be visionary.

[@MrDevinReeve]

Great video bro. Always love seeing the small differences from the different lineages. I too am from the Jiu Wan family.

[@junichiroyamashita]

I heard the Pang Nam lineage is particularly focused on clawing and elbows. Or that they seem to focus more on it. I have also read that the Snake Pattern lineage has a longer range of engagement than the others,because the have a training exercise called Huen Sao and Suen Sao(Snake Hands)

[@junichiroyamashita]

@nicholasgreen339 ever saw anything on Snake Pattern Suen Sao ?

[@rookiecookie722]

You guys went through the first form and it's different from how I learned from my sifu. I don't even know my lineage, but I got really excited and am curious why it's so different

[@tobynorris]

Same with no mention of lineage, but mine seems to be mostly a blend of the two and yeah, it's so interesting to learn.

[@Gamer-kn7fi]

Its really interrsting seeing these and then comparing them to the ones i train in germany, its a bit like mixture but also again completely diffrent very interesting

[@EVEROSFP1]

Really appreciate the fact that you expose in a very positive way every martial art. Martial arts and fighting sports must be brothers, not enemies ...

[@matreyia]

The ending flick fist is only used to generate "second energy" after the primary energy is exhausted. It should not be thought of and trained as the "normal" Sun Character punch. If you do that, you will most likely damage your knuckle/wrist due to applying energy at the inappropriate time and distance and bone alignment angle. The flick wrist second energy motion is used to dig in even deeper to tear inner organs or tendon stressing only AFTER you reach the maximum "normal" punch penetration into the body. You should not training punching with the flicking extension and think that how we are supposed to punch normally.

[@billiswillis8293]

14:17 Nice and sly move: Approaching the bench, pretending to read the memorial plaque, and filching something from the backpack. 😁

[@HeiLong76]

Great stuff Kevin. I follow Sifu Francis Fong and you a lot. I'd like you to cover Wan Kam Leung and Yuen Kay San lineages as well. Truly appreciate your work.

[@Alee-hh9ws]

That's the Style that i train. Wan Kam Leung practical Wing Chun

[@Technoanima]

Interesting differences, my lineage is under Yip Chun. Our chain punches are from the elbow, so the punch auto-aligns itself as the wrist is relaxed.

[@trainyourselffit6829]

Very interesting comparison. I've never been too interested in the different lineages in terms of where they come from, so if what I say about the lineage I did next sounds stupid, then excuse my ignorance :). The lineage I studied had Grand Master Samuel Kwok as the head of the lineage, but was always referred to as 'Original Ip Man Wing Chun,' as I understand he learnt his Wing Chun from Ip Man's son Ip Ching. Regardless, the part 7 of the dummy form, without the cross steps that Sifu Nate refers to here in some lineages, is how we did the dummy form, and I originally learnt it that way. The cross steps I have seen you doing, Kevin, in this and other videos, are brilliant though. This application makes more sense to me, so I've adopted that too. To my mind, as I've come to understand fighting and Wing Chun in particular from sparring etc., (albeit in different martial arts to Wing Chun as we didn't spar in Wing Chun, just Chi Sao), over the years, fighting is all footwork. So things like stepping on the foot, and using the sweeps from the footwork, is a much better usage of the system's potential. Particularly since it's such a close range system. Having seen you applying these, I realise they were always there hidden in the form, so to speak, but just didn't think to use the footwork that way, so thank you, since my instructor never showed this. Nor did we practice the Sip Ma/C step as a sweep on section 1 of the dummy, which I have adopted from you. Otherwise, our Siu Lim Tao is pretty much exactly what you are doing, Kevin, except the section 2. We would open section 2 of Sil Lim Tao like you from the double Lan Sao, into a double Jum Sao, but without the extra arm bit Sifu Nate does. But then we would do the rest of this section exactly like Sensei Nate, with the Jum, Tan, Jut and then Biu, straight arm pull down (Gum Sao), then up with the top of the hand (what we called a Tai Sao) before closing back/chambering ready for section 3.

[@andrewanastasovski1609]

Pretty cool comparison. I do a vintage dance and you can see the same kind of variation based on the linage of teachers as well; who was doing what for what reason. It's interesting.

[@shaolindreams]

Interesting video. Kevin's techniques look more similar to what we learnt in London, but we did also dabble with some JKD too.

[@M_K-Bomb]

It's only subtly different, but I guess if I was changing a martial art which I loved I would only change small parts like that. So it makes perfect sense.

[@unisakungfu8648]

Hi Kevin yours looks the most simmilar to ours. I am nearly 20 years in yip man>chu shong tin lineage. I was lucky enough to train with cst before he passed. There is a saying one of my instructors told me "its not the position but the condition". When we train we would spend hours per day working on making sure the movement we do, whatever it may be, is supported by our bodys natural structure rather than relying on musclular strength. Anyway hope that helps 😊

[@woodhandle]

Wing Chun Association of Canada is more similar to Sifu Nate's. Our Hands are kept higher, Tan finger tips are eye level, and feet are picked up for footwork. 10:49 we call it a Circle Step and we use one horizontally, ironically just barely sliding not picking up the foot, to get into Neutral Stance after the Bil Sau. Sweet to see the differences, @KevinLeeVlog thank you for the video!

[@joshuag8400]

Hello, my name is Josh. I study wing chun gung fu under Sifu Augustin Fong in Tucson AZ. Our first form has a double punch in it. If you have time, there are some youtube videos of Sifu doing his forms. Our forms look different but same. I love your videos and what you do for the wing chun community. Keep posting much respect 🙏

[@tobynorris]

It's fascinating how the first form I've learnt seems to have been a blend of the two. I also don't think my Sifu has ever mentioned a lineage.

[@reinaldofigueroa583]

Could you do a comparison with Yuen Kay San lineage and Gulo Village lineage in the future?

[@Josmitty]

double that, that would be cool to see, and a great conversation.

[@bertt1055]

Finally the two Wing Chun greats meet!

[@TheRebuilt1]

studied Tao of Jeet Kun Do like many and get to coime back to WC and see how some technique had modernized/evolved. I am so glad i found your channel.

[@mjb7015]

Excellent video. One of the things I like least about the online wing chun community is the amount of dogmatic "my way is the only correct way" thinking. It's really great to see different wing chun styles not only being compared side by side, but being open minded and respectful of the differences in technique, form sequence, and theory.

[@ClarkTangTV]

Hey WC brothers! Great video. Kevin if you’re in Southern California, please stop by at Wing Chun Temple. Sifu Nate did come several years ago. Also pleasure seeing WC videos with different perspectives. Peace and blessings…

[@samahnpowell2562]

I practice Hung Sune wing chun (red boat wing chun) in Australia

[@sinbad128]

Is it true, that's where Wing Chun Truly started? i've heard that (red boat wing chun) is the Rarest of them All.. My first introduction to THAT particular wing chun was from a KZbinr called ( monkeystealspeach) ..

[@xhaozhao]

Hung Suen is derived from TWC with some karate influence from GM Rick Spain. A lot of Muay Thai and BJJ in it as well.

[@D--man]

Very cool comparison!!! Thanks! The forms I learned are similar to yours as I mostly learned under a student of your Sifu.

[@lightprint348]

I trained a cho sung ting, jim fung liniage, through louise ozidacs in melbourne. it was rare to collaps the elbow in the tan sau, elbow strikes etc, these functioned a lot like a shear aplicable at many ranges. eg A tan sau conveted to a fook sau then into a strike either a downward palm to the chest, face or collar bone, a forearm strike neck chest face, a elbow strike with the shoulder and step in behind it side of the head, which with bill gee set up for rotational colection and head neck and face locks and throws. foot/ knee/ hip work collecting the balance. I was just beginning to help instruct when i left 20 years ago. others will know more and my memory is distant. it was curious to see the elbow structure " collaps" for a strike. With interest and curiousity. I enjoy your exploration. ( appolagies for miss spelling of technique and folk.)

[@gethingethin8238]

Im with IP man lineage and it looks quite a bit different to both of yours. Maybe a bit simpler looking less big movements :)

[@jasonkeaton5140]

Amazing. Kevin I trained briefly with you and Sifu fong. It changed my bjj game

[@adam28171]

Really enjoying these latest videos on WC. Would be great to see you investigate Tai Chi and see if this internal art compliments the modern MMA based style you practice.

[@GirAddict]

My Sifu did variation of the guy with red hoody. He taught me when I was a kid 12 years old. In 1984. He studied Wing Chung in California at Bruce Lee school after he came home from Vietnam war. He was friend of my dad. I grew up in Oklahoma USA. At that time we were the only Kung Fu studient there. A lot of Karate and Korean fighting arts. I feel fortunate that I had a different martial arts.

[@galenhawkins1459]

Very cool! Would love to see a collab like this with one of Eddie Chong's students! I always loved the way he taught his Bak Mei from a wing chun platform! 🤙

[@ralfybaby]

Trained in Wing Chun a lifetime ago in the mid 1980s in the Netherlands under a sifu named Roger Chan who had learned in Hong Kong until long days at school and work made regularly scheduled classes impossible and went the muscle gym route. Always appreciated WC but was never able to find a studio near where I lived. Wing chun us not as ubiquitous as say Shotokan. Never forgot it though. The style was definitely more Kevin. I remember that Roger had a picture of Yip Man on the wall of the gym room and i seem to remember him mentioning his son.

[@lawrencecrayton9844]

Awesome guys good to see Nate And Kevin Lee doing videos together

[@shawnn6541]

I'm not a Chinese practitioner however.... I'm mostly do Korean and Japanese and little bjj.... I really like this particular video... I don't comment very much.... Both of you gentlemen have very good form.... I am a 5 th dan of just 1 of quite a few different martial arts ive done in my lifetime. Soooo all im trying to say is, i appreciate your dedication. Ous!

[@Don-James]

Very interesting... thank you for the open-minded, comfortable comparisons.

[@TheKrodin]

Jason, I enjoy your videos, but I do have a note for you on this one. With great respect for Francis Fong, I still must say that when you two did the first part of the second form, the biggest advantage your guest had came from him switching side stances by spinning on his heels, where you tended to spin on the balls of your feet, nearly your toes. As an experienced Wing Chun practitioner myself, I highly recommend that you review this practice.

[@johndough8115]

I was taught, that when in the MA stance, your knees should be no more than a Fist (width wise) distance apart. The knees should be directly over the Toes. This creates the proper challenge, to develop a much stronger structure. The Fingers should NEVER be spread apart. Keep them glued to each other, at all times. Spread Fingers in combat = Wrenched (hyper-extended) and Jammed Finger injuries... as the fingers will get caught on the OPs limbs, or clothing. After suffering several finger jams and hyper-extension injuries, I learned the hard way. Also, the thumb should be "in-line" with the fingers. Not in front of the palm. If your thumb separated, and or is in front, it can get wrenched (hyper extended), and or get Crushed (pinned into your own palm). Kevin, when pulling your Wu Sao back... keep your elbow in. I like to make sure that the side of my arms, grind against the side of my ribcage, as they return. Im also seeing issues with accidentally over-Extending the shoulders, as well as issues maintaining the same shoulder height, throughout the form. Im not hearing any Breathing at all. Maybe you are breathing... but its very quiet. Quiet breath, tends to be Shallow and Weak breath. Weak breaths = Weak movement / Weak power. Learn to develop stronger breathing practices. Unfortunately, modern WC teachers have pretty much lost the original Chinese breathing methods. You might find some of it remaining, in the Older versions of WC (not the IP Man lineage). I learned Yogic breathing exercises, as well as things like "Breath Packing". I learned that these Indian breathing methods, used to be part of all Chinese combat teachings. Unfortunately, Modern teachers and practitioners, have never fully understood the power of these methods...and have allowed them to become "Lost", due to their own Ignorance about them. The entire form is meant to be done at relative combat speed... EXCEPT for the part that is repeated 3x. That section, is called "Three Prayers to Buddha". It should take about 16 minutes to complete the 3 Prayers section... as its meant to be done like a Tai Chi form, in Slow-Motion. About 60 seconds to fully extend... and 60 seconds to fully retract, for each movement. And When practicing the Form properly... you are supposed to do the form for an Entire HOUR long session, without breaks / rests. As soon as you finish the form, you repeat the form again. You do the entire form, at least 4 times in a row, to get a little over 1hr of Form training. MOST of the form will be spent in the "slow-motion" section.... as the rest of the form is done so quickly. The slow motion part of the form, is KEY to developing "Internal Power". Most especially, in developing super strong Tendons. You cant get super-tendons, by merely doing the form quickly a few times. This is why the forms are meant to be done slow... as well as needing a minimum of 1 hour of form work. Because it takes at least 30 min. before your joints and tendons even start to suffer some mild stress levels. This is coupled with very slow and deep breathing... which will create a much greater level of Circulation within your limbs / body. This makes a mild Iron-Body development. The slow motion also starts to develop a super-conscious state of awareness. Both externally (3d space), as well as Internally (bodily / positional awareness). It can take a few months for your brain to change.... to develop this level of Hyper-Awareness. Once you do... you will instantly know about 100 different points of information, all at the same time... without having to SHIFT your FOCUS. For example: You will know the exact angle of your toes, the amount of weight per leg, if your elbow is off by a mere CM, if your shoulders are raised or uneven, if your head is lightly tilted, etc... all instantly, and all without having to "Think" about it. This is super-critical in real fighting situations... as you need to know every bit of information, instantly, without any delays. Artists that lack this kind of awareness, can easily be fooled by simple "Feints" (such as high to low movements). And or can be exploited in other ways, and or, will cause their own issues... due to poor positional and spatial awareness levels. The rest of the form is not meant to be done slow. Its meant to be "Explosive" / Realtime. This is to develop your "Quick Twitch" muscle fibers... to have much greater speed and acceleration levels. This greater speed and acceleration levels = Greater Output power. Of course, these arm movements, are not just meant to be arm powered. One should be activating and connecting the entire body mass, along with them (Fajin). The more I leaned about Other Chinese martial arts systems and methods.... the more I was able to figure out Wing Chun, to a MUCH higher degree of functionality, and capabilities. You see, Wing Chun is actually a combination of several Chinese arts methods... and these methods, and principles, are shared amount most of the Chinese combat arts. An example, is comparing Tai Chi's Push Hand drills, to Wing Chun's Chi-Sao drills. They basically use similar principles, with a similar method of training. Though, the Tai Chi version is a lot more complex / deeper. Anyway... do the form as I wrote above. Practice it at least... every other day, for a consecutive 3 months minimum. Every session should be a hair over 1hr long. You wont notice a massive change, until nearing the very end of your 3 months. When it eventually does happen... you will be so glad that you put in the efforts... as you will be at a whole other level, compared to any other students / practitioners of Wing Chun (and even far beyond those that practice other artforms too). Start off Practicing in front of a full length Mirror, so that you can spot any issues visually, head-on. You can eventually alternate, to face sidewards, to be able to tell if your arms are rising or lowering... while you make your lines. Eventually, you want to get to the point, where you are no longer having to make ANY physically corrections, in your entire 1hr session. At this point, you can try doing the entire form, without a mirror. You want to focus on the "Feeling" and see if you can tell if you are in perfect alignment, through the entire form... without the ability to "See" it visually. You might need to swap between sight and no-sight, for a bit... until you eventually develop the higher level Awareness. Then Test yourself in front of the mirror... by closing your eyes... and opening them at random times... to make sure that you are in the perfect alignments. Once you have developed the Hyper Awareness, and you have flawless "Surgical" level of control... You can push yourself to an even higher level... by adding a special wrist weight. Basically, use an adjustable wrist strap... that is connected to a 2 liter bottle, filled with a certain amount of water. This additional weight will put even more Strain on your tendons, while doing the form. HOWEVER... you want to make sure that you are using tendon strength only. If you find yourself struggling to the point where your are Raising your shoulders up.. trying to keep the weight up... then you are NOT ready for this level... and should stop immediately. You do not want to develop stiff muscles... nor do you want to develop improper form... due to stresses that your body cant yet handle. Of course, you dont need to do the entire form, to use the wrist weight device. You can simply raise and lower your arm vertically, for 5 min per arm. And you can move the arm backwards and forwards... slowly, with the weights on... again, for like 5 min per arm.

[@Hexogentrinitro]

This was a super dope video!!! Thank you for thinking of it.

[@NandoWasabi]

I hope to see guys train together in future. Thanks for the video.

[@russeljones4692]

It is good to see proper Wing Chun done. Many 'fighters' say they are Wing Chun and they are not even close.

[@davidmiller4078]

Fascinating comparisons good job amigos

[@DasjMountain]

Cool to see ninja Nate

[@JustSomeGuy69420]

Good lord. He was one of the original martial arts people on youtube lol! Oldest video on his channel is 15 years old. I'm like "where have I seen that dude before"....thats crazy. I was like 13 when I saw his videos.

[@TacTican]

Amazing video that ended too soon. I noticed during Chum Kiu that Nate Sifu shifted on his heels and Kevin Sifu shifted on the balls of his feet, and was really hoping they'd elaborate in-depth on that.

[@Bones-uu6zp]

WING CHUN practitioner here, & VERY INFORMATIVE, RIGHT FROM THE START ! EXCELLENT, and: ***** >> That HORIZONTAL movement, that is proof of EVOLVING MARTIAL ARTS IS TRUE - EXCELLENT MOVES AND SHOULD BE AN ADDITION TO THIS SYSTEM, ACROSS THE ENTIRE SPECTRUM OF WING CHUN ! MOST EXCELLENT MOVE TO ADD TO THIS SYSTEM. *** PS- There is a docu I forgot it's name, but it does show 5 people that can trace lineage BACK TO ORIGINAL 5 MASTERS THAT FLED THE ATTACK ON THE SOUTHERN TEMPLE !!!! !!!!!!!!!! Yes indeed, I wish I had written that documentary down, I didn't realize it could be lost/forgotten !!!!!!!! -- 1 Master it shows he has practices on plum poles!!! It's AMAZING LOOKING AT ALL THE ORIGINAL 5 LINEAGES. 😎🐉

[@FabledHeroes3351]

Maybe y’all should make an edit with music in the background cause that leaf blower was very distracting 😂

[@SumZonedCat]

Cant wait till they figure out that sticking hands is a concept, not a glorified patty cake exercise 👍

[@kevingray4980]

More crane in Nate's, more snake in Kevin's.

[@joecollegetattoo]

Thanks for this! I would love to see more comparison videos.

[@AuthenticShaolin]

Love your. Channel. Always sharing, and working in a positive way 🤙💥🔥

[@kenlek869]

Yiquan does a lot of jerking back the opponent's arms (7:20-7:34). If you resist when an adept pulls hard on your arms your neck vertebrae gets totally misaligned. If you do not resist and give way, you open yourself to further attacks from the opponent's hands and elbows.

[@outerlast]

that short pulling and finger stabbing, it looks like something from hakka style. i've seen it practiced in pak mei and lung ying. interesting enough, my late taiji teacher also taught that exact movement as 2-person drill, and i thought it was influenced by yiquan push hand :p

[@rookiecookie722]

Yeah, it's like a spring I think is the idea; if you pull them then they might resist and pull back and then you suddenly switch and allow them to pull your arms up into their face.

[@anthonylee2099]

Very nice video collaboration of Wing Chun Styles. More comparative movements. 🤙😎

[@bennorman5212]

Nice. I've done some Ip Man lineage (Ip Chun and Lo man Kam) and a little Guangdong style. They roll the hands in the opening in Guangdong style, and also have 8 hand moves before even opening the stance. Plus a backwards body-lean at the opening of SLT2. A bit too complicated for me, got to say I prefer the simple directness of the Ip Man lineage. Though even a few generations down from Ip Man the differences in teachers can be remarkable.

[@JS-ob4oh]

It is not just differences exist between styles, but within the same style taught by different teachers will also differ. Everyone interprets the fundamentals of WC )or any martial art) differently. It's like the testimonies of witnesses to a crime or an accidents who see and interpret what they saw and give a slightly (sometime greatly) different account.

[@NNamesis]

I'm from Wong Shun Leung lineage under Sifu David Peterson. Sigung added a jut sao at the end of Siu Nim Tao. He modified a bit from doing lots and lots of Beimo. They don't call him Gong Sao Wong (king of the talking hands) for nothing 😊

[@georgefoley9793]

Sifu David Peterson is a legend! I only know of him due to the Sifu under whom I trained in WSL lineage. He constantly talked with the highest respect and admiration about Sifu David Peterson.

[@NNamesis]

@@georgefoley9793 come visit Malaysia. I'll take you to my Sifu. And you're welcome to stay at my place. Cheers

[@georgecardiff1946]

I don't practice wing chun, but i find it fascinating, however you could definitely see the similarities and differences Kevin.

[@mattstrader8956]

Enjoyed this very much!

[@DrFrankenskippy]

fascinating how many variations there are in WC ... ultimately though it is a 'principle' rather than straight laced 'technique' geared system so hence open to per lineage interp' nuances. I also see so many obvious cross-over's to Lung Ying (Dragon) which I studied prior to my WC training.

[@kevinaldrich5862]

these guys are awesome! :)

[@5T3U3RM4NN]

Interesting comparision !! Hope there is more to come 😊 greetings from germany -,-

[@swedbp1]

Look up William Cheung in Melbourne Australia. He is a Top Man Student (like many others) and see another difference. He doesn't slide his feet around. His steps are pronounced.

[@sinfinite7516]

I’ve seen some footage of Wing Chun competitions online. I was wondering have you ever attended any of them Kevin and I would suggest you make a video on them because I’d be very interested in watching a video on the topic.

[@SailorJohnPresents]

Been a long time for me. But I practiced a combo of both those styles in the form. My Sifu Dave Mancini learned from Art Rose and then from his Sifu Kenny Chung in San Francisco Chinatown (1st Gen). Very high up on the Yip Man lineage.

[@connorsmith8400]

Now you guys both have to spare. In purely wing Chun

[@rookiecookie722]

I think that's the best way to get better. I have been really wanting to try putting myself to the test, but there aren't many opportunities

[@brycekeeney4995]

What I noticed first was the difference in structure. You were more relaxed and flowing the guy in red seemed more rigid and powerful. Gracefulness versus powerful.

[@Docinaplane]

Unless I am mistaken, why is there no grappling in Wing Chun? Thx! When I do the WC punch, I snap down with the fist so the first two knuckles strike.

[@JKDVIPER]

Oh shoot! That's my boy Kev! Cool man. 💯✅

[@boostthebeauty3487]

Thanks for the comparison

[@ramines3809]

Gotta see you and Tu tengyao do a vid bro the fans need it 👍👍👍

[@SoldierDrew]

My sifu Keith Fain uses Phoenix eye fist in his wing tsun kunfa punches. Punching with last two knuckles was taught for beginners so they dont injure each other to much in accident. Advanced wing tsun teaches to strike with phoenix eye fist to eye socket, neck, throat, solar plexus, liver and ribs. Bil gee finger jabs to the eyes and neck. Edge of palm to neck vitals. And in our school of keith fain wing tsun kunfa we use strikes to create openings to throw opponent down or sweep, reap or neck clench throw adversary. It's more a throwing art that uses bridging, trapping, sticking and strikes to destabilize structure in order to facilitate throwing the adversary down where we can finish them with our distinct method of stopping them from further aggression. In our lineage it's not really a striking art. It's a standing grappling art that uses bridging, camming, sticking and striking to close distance with the adversary, destabilize their balance then take them down.