winging quick back to back sesh MA1000 and HA925

Since my first sesh on the MA1000, I wanted to see how it stacked up against the HA925. So doing a back-to-back session with them both has been on my mind, and since I only had an hour or so, this seemed like a good time, although the wind was up and down, mostly down. I found I really dug the 925 and the two were more similar than I thought. Was this a fluke session or will my opinions evolve? I look forward to trying them both in waves back to back.
An afterthought worth noting, I used a red shim this day on both foils, which was the first time I used one on the MA1000, and I always use it on the HA925. So I think I need to try zero shims on both as well, and then maybe zero on the MA and +1 on the HA... lots to do still.
gear used:
75L Armie FG
795 mast
60cm fuse
195 tail +1
MA1000 and HA925
8m F-One Strike

[@christomo]

Great review look forward to the wave version 👍. Horse's for course's. Another fantastic film great interesting information thanks bud look forward to the next one .

[@OCEANBOUND1]

thanks bud! always good to hear from you, I wish you a great week ahead!

[@nicolas_vuille]

Maaaan, you should rap: 04:00 rap intro 04:22 yeeeehaaaa, it fits so well the music You have a voice, an intonation and a rhythm that would make good rap songs 🤟

[@OCEANBOUND1]

hahah thanks bud! I love editing to the music, but one of these days I'll make a wing rap 😎👊👊

[@nicolas_vuille]

@@OCEANBOUND1 ⚡️🤟😋

[@promosub4257]

good test jeremy ... I'm waiting for your 1225 with pleasure .. thank you

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Sweet! I’m stoked to try that one too. Hopefully in the next month. My friend that has one is traveling for the next few weeks. Thanks bud and I wish you an awesome weekend!

[@knightclan4]

I can't wait to learn this sport

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Keep me in the loop as you go!

[@Ahjsport]

Awesome and enthusiastic review though I don’t know anything about Armstrong 😂😂 I’m riding Mikes Lab 1000 & 800 & 540 cm2. My experience is when powered up with the wing go small with the foil🤙🤙🤙🤙 My biggest wing is a 5.5 m2 Strike v2……never say never - but I never think I would need bigger size wing than that to light wind - just need a little gust and so easy to pump 😊🤙 Have a great weekend 🤙

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Oh man another Mikes Lab rider! I’m jealous. We don’t have any of those around here and I’ve spent too much on the Armie ecosystem to buy my own. Maybe I’ll get lucky and be able to demo some if I go somewhere. Let me know if you are ever in Boston, lol. I love my 5.5 but it’s pretty blown out at this point. Then again, so is the 8m. Stoked for some new and crispy v3s! And I think I may get rid of my 8m and go 7m sometime this next year. I LOVE having tons of power but the 8m is prolly overkill. I wish you an awesome weekend bud!!

[@jessejohnson4589]

Thanks much for this back to back review. Like you say, everyone is frothing over the MA1000, but it was hard for me to buy into the hype, I was doubtful it could surpass the likeability of the HA925. Your thoughts and comments are always very insightful.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Well I promise it’s a great wing, and at some point (I don’t think in this video) I mentioned that I think it’s going to teach me how to unlock more on the HAs. So it’s def fun to try new things. But I feel a lot of overlap and it just made me appreciate the HAs more! We will see how that 1225 is.

[@youdigsurf]

ma are probably a marketing gimmick and i dont really appreciate that it's seem that you need the full package to make it work ( at least that what a lot of people are saying) new performance mast + new stab some even said you need the new fuse , in france we have a lot of a+ on the second hand market at crazy price of course just after i brought mine brand new haha , there set with the hs1550v2 at 1200 euros ( 1268 us dollars) 2500euro for a foil set a+ brand new got mine 2000 euros) people are selling their whole set to get all new. I think i will probably get a second hand hs1250 and a ha925 which i know for sure they work with the a+ with no shenanigans.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

sup bud! yeah I think you could be right, you may need the full kit to have it totally unlocked. I'm happy with the new mast now, coming from a 72, the 79.5 is a nice length. the froth behind the MAs was big, maybe you need to be a pro to appreciate, or maybe you need the whole kit. at this point, I'll drink the KoolAid and go for the new stab, I might as well. As much as I like the 195, I'm curious how something newer and smaller feels. so more on that soon. BUT you have the right idea bud. get a 925, you will love it (well how much you love it may depend on your weight, I'm 77kg). and the 1250s should be pretty cheap these days, I just sold mine last week for $400 which I felt was a great deal. The old stuff is still great, and so far, that 925 is really close to this MA. If you get a 925 I wanna hear about it! I wish you an awesome week bud!

[@1JOHNHEARN]

Nice vid. Thanks for the knowledge. jh

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Thanks so much bud I wish you an awesome weekend!!

[@jurgenhinz6320]

thx !! you´re riding with straps as far as I could see - so is the HA line approved for jumps as well or should it stay in the water/on waves ?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

I just took the 680 out for a jump sesh… its different from the MAs, I think they are a little better with reentry but the 680 happens to be small enough that it entered the water ok and then gave you lift. So I’m still not sure if I’m selling my 1000 yet but the 680 is cooler than the 1000 in other ways so I’m pretty sure I can make it work and be happy with just that.

[@larrycollar1322]

From the video you showed us it looked like the 925 pumped up on foil quicker. Maybe different perspective or slightly different conditions.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

oh I def felt that. I know I'm super used to the HA so it makes sense I can get it up pretty quick. but I think they accelerate quicker and it does have a wider wingspan than the MA1000 so I think it really does have more lift. I tried it again today but it was, ahem, much windier and a totally different experience...

[@hisurf4688]

About a month in on the MA’s, 1000, and 1225… and HA’s, 925 and 1325… Sup surfing and I’ve been on the 925 for a few sessions now after riding the 1325 for a few sessions and I’m interested in getting the HA 725 next because the HA’s are so nutso fast and they turn plenty…

[@OCEANBOUND1]

yeah it's been interesting trying them back to back. I did it again today, much much windier with some windswell... it was a little chaotic out there. and in that chaos, it was kinda hard to tell the difference, except the HA was just faster and smoother. I could get them to turn the same. I'm sure I'll be able to get the MAs to crank harder turns, but I have to train myself to do that as it hasn't really been my style. I want it to be. but I think once I start turning harder on the MAs, I'll prolly be able to push the HAs harder as well. maybe that 205 stab will really open it up. have you ridden the MAs with one of the new stabs or the 195 or V?

[@knightclan4]

I'm hoping to get started soon Looking for a great deal someone wanting to upgrade and sell their beginner set-up

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Awesome bud! It’s quite the journey, so get ready! I’m sure you’ll be able to find used gear, there’s tons around. Buy used, go big, if you progress fast you can just upgrade. Get stoked!

[@robadair]

Good one. I’ve done the same comparison on flat water and have similar thoughts. My 925 (aka 910) has about 5/8” trimmed off each tip due to damage so it turns a little better than a stock 925. I’m anxious to compare them in waves, because the 1000 is such an incredible surf foil and carves so well. IMO the 1000 is more stable and less twitchy. The 1000 is not easy to flatwater pump, in fact Mike Pedigo says it is virtually unpumpable in his opinion. I’ve spent a few wake and tow sessions on the 1225 lately and it pumps pretty well, certainly better than the 1000. Can’t wait for more testing! Cheers

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Love it, thanks bud. I def wanna compare in waves next. And I used a shim on this one, I’m thinking less shim on the 1000 will be better for low end and pump. The next sesh I had after this one I tried the same test but with zero shim on both, the wind was too light and I never got out on the 925. Soon I hope. Good to hear you are digging the 1225. That may be a really nice summer wing in these parts. Hope all is well and I wish you an awesome weekend bud!

[@sk-hd4ys]

I think that is worth to experiment with new stab developed for MAs.then shim it and compare the feelings.cant wait your next review

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Sweet bud, will do! I heard the stabs shipped this week so I’m just waiting for the goods. Which one are you using?

[@mcplaayer]

205 pairing with the 1000 is game changer. Makes the foil feel more lively and glides better. And more pitch stable too!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@mcplaayer stoked bud! I hope to see mine in the next week or so. I think they finally shipped last week.

[@cheynedowsett6381]

How do these compare to the f1 eagle for turning, glide and stall speed? cheers 🤙

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Sup bud! I can’t say for sure, it’s hard to compare when not back to back. But from memory, I’d say similar to the Eagle turning-wise, but the Eagle is prolly better at speed and glide. But don’t quote me on that. Cheers bud! I wish you an awesome week!

[@puddingpatrol]

Great comparison. The HAs are definitely easier to get going in light wind. 725 easier than the 800, 925 easier than the 1000-they just slip through the water with a lot less drag.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Ok awesome it’s so good to hear someone else say this. You only hear the froth on the internet and it felt weird bringing that up, I was hoping it wasn’t a fluke of a session for me. I really wonder about the 1225, do huh have one? And what stab are you using with the MAs?

[@puddingpatrol]

@@OCEANBOUND1 yeah for sure man. I don’t have the 1225 but I’d imagine that it’s the same thing when compared to the 1125. The 1000 I was using was lent to me for a week or so by a friend of mine. 195 and one red shim on 60 A+ with both the 1000 and 800. I’m waiting for the 205. The problem with the MAs is that they’re shaped such that you need to ram the mast forward to get the same sort of front-foot feedback that you get with the HAs. I tried to reduce the tail angle but I don’t like the draggy feel. And ramming the mast forward has its own issues, especially when thinking about placement of back foot in relation to the mast. I’ve heard great things about the 205 and it adding the lift needed to really balance out the MAs. The 205 should also eliminate the problem of tracking with the 195. The 205 is supposed to carve really well. I’ve heard that some folks are using the 205 with their smaller HAs.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@puddingpatrol super great to hear this, thanks bud. For whatever it’s worth, I think I prefer the MA with zero shim. I’m gonna try to do some back-to-back riding again tomorrow, this time with zero shim on both (I prefer +1 on the HAs) and see what happens. I think the MA just feels good in the waves to, so I bet I’ll love it tomorrow, at least more than I did in this video. I started riding the mast a little forward but I’m back to what I ride the HAs at, and I don’t think it feels weird. More soon… thanks bud and I wish you an awesome week ahead!

[@puddingpatrol]

@@OCEANBOUND1 Yeah man personal presence! I know a few lighter riders who are going 1.5 with the shim. Looking forward to the next vid!

[@jasonleitch6478]

I know what you mean about getting on foil seems easier with ha925 than the ma1000. I was thinking it’s because the HA wing has quicker acceleration than the MA, so it gives you a better opportunity to get going on foil because of that additional speed, if that makes sense?. I think the MA1000 is easier to handle on waves though, say if you want to do surfy turns etc, partly because you don’t have that huge HA speed to burn off when you start going down the line, but I guess that depends on the conditions and what you are doing on the wave. I was feeling frustrated with the MA wings in some settings, wondering if it was just me, so hearing your experience and thoughts was really helpful 👍🙏. Also, did you move mast forward at all when using MA1000? I imagine you’ll say you already are all the way forward anyway, right? 😂

[@OCEANBOUND1]

thanks for commented on this! honestly I was worried I was imagining things or just getting weird feedback between the conditions, my body, and brain. I think your idea makes perfect sense... the fact the HA is so efficient means it can get up to speed quicker and can lift you quicker, and the 925 does have a wider wingspan that the 1000 so possibly more lift there as well. but it's funny, cause initially I thought it would be the opposite - the more surface area meant more low speed lift. but the MA is def more nimble, especially on waves. I figure I'll be on the 1000 when the waves are under head high, particularly sloppy waves that aren't as fast. I think anything overhead I'd still rock the 925 for now, but who knows what I will eventually get the 1000 to do. I put the mast forward on the first sesh and then back to normal since (which is 8 on the FG). so I have room to go but I don't need it. I have a 205 tail coming in soon so that apparently will make things feel better. What stab are you using? 195? shim?

[@jasonleitch6478]

I guess we’re finding that initial acceleration and speed of HA can trump low speed lift (MA), at least for take off! I found it the same for prone too. On gutless small dumpy waves it was easier to get on foil with HA1125 than MA1225. I’ve tried both 195 and vtail with the MA, haven’t gone to the ma tails yet as I wasn’t convinced. My mate has the 205 and just getting a few sessions in now with MA1000 on prone. He finds it ok, but not super different to before. For winging theoretically it should have the most benefit, let’s hope anyway 🤞. No shims for me normally 😅

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@jasonleitch6478 this as great to hear, thank you. I’m gonna try to ride the both tomorrow in some sloppy windswell, this time with zero shim. That kinda bugged me after this video, that I used a +1 shim on both of them and I def think the MA was better with zero shim. So that’s the plan, we will see what happens! Wishing you a great week ahead bud!

[@mooneypilot01]

Nice review! I’m considering going from the HS1550v2 to the MA1225. Curious, what size FG board are you riding? Is that a 60L or 75L, and what do you weigh approximately? Seems you were getting up quite easily in light wind. Great videos! Thanks

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Sup bud! I really want to know how close that 1225 comes to the 1550! I’m considering it for light wind this summer, and since my 1325 is my light wind option now, it would be noticeably different. Hopefully I’ll get on one in the next month. I ride a 75L FG and I’m about 77kg or like 167-170lbs. Are you riding FGs?

[@mooneypilot01]

@@OCEANBOUND1 Great info, thanks! It seems the MA wings are a game changer - super low stall speed and the ability to breach a tip without any consequences. Hard to keep up with the new technology.... I'm about to pull the trigger on a 75L FG Armie board. It is my first "small" board so was curious to get your take as I understand they have great stability/bouancy for the size. I'm around 72kgs/158lbs. Thoughts? Also can't wait for your review on the new Strike v3 when you gets your hands on one!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@mooneypilot01 oh you should be good to go on the 75FG. It's a great design and I don't see any reason why I should upgrade this year. It kind of feels like a 68L IMO. which is a good thing. I love the recessed deck. you'll be stoked on it! Let me know if you end up getting it and what you think. And yeah I can't wait for these V3 strikes!! I assume I'll love them but who knows. Committing to a 5.5m right now and prolly a 4.5m too.

[@mooneypilot01]

@@OCEANBOUND1 Appreciate the help - I am going with the 75L FG and will give you feedback. Stoked!

[@rocketmarket684]

@@mooneypilot01 I'll slide into this thread, thinking about a 88L FG? I'm around 190 and much of the year is spent with a wetsuit on, was thinking of a 75L but based on the this exchange I'm thinking maybe an 88 that feels like a 80? Appreciate the feedback!

[@jbwiden]

Speaking of the wetsuit, it seems a bit on the larger size for you. Is that intentional?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

You think? I feel like it’s tight! I’m like a medium with large shoulders so nothing fits. 🤷‍♂️

[@jbwiden]

@@OCEANBOUND1 I was looking at the creases in the legs and arms, though if you have broad shoulders it easily could still be a tight area. Too tight in the shoulders is about the worst I would think for winging so would understand that trade-off.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@jbwiden yeah def! Over the years I’ve tried M, ML, MT, L, LT, XL…nothing really felt perfect. A thinner wetsuit I can def make a M work. But these thicker 5mm and 6mm wetsuits give you crazy forearm fatigue if they fit “correctly” IMO so it’s kinda nice to have them a little looser.

[@windski2]

How was the weather 1000 in the waves at HN?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

it was good, if you are into some chaos, which I'm cool with. 4.5m and pretty lit, winds avg close to 30mph for a lot of the time. the waves were totally sloppy but steep, some 4ft and maybe a few bigger. good times! I rode them both again today, but since there was a lot going on, it was hard telling the difference!