Wings of Kahless: Vor'cha & Negh'var class 'Brothers in Arms'

here with another edition of wings. hope you enjoy.
links:
www.ex-astris-scientia.org/art...
www.deviantart.com/euderion/g...
www.deviantart.com/jetfreak-7...
www.deviantart.com/star-trek
Credits
Devastation and Revenge by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Hero's Theme by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: www.twinmusicom.org/song/280/h...
Artist: www.twinmusicom.org
Drums of the Deep by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Crusade - Video Classica by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/

[@necroticavalon5176]

I don't get it. If the Klingon Empire was as "ailing" and weak as they were before the Narendra incident, why would they declare war on the Federation over it not helping their outpost (Yesterday's Enterprise)? Wouldn't they be more inclined to declare war on the Romulans, who were the perpetrators in the first place?! I mean sure, they'd be pissed off at the Feds for not helping, but go to WAR?! Especially one they'd logically lose? Nonsense. Hell, the Feds didn't attack that colony, and had no obligation to defend it at all. It was only out of Enterprise C's kindness of heart that they even responded to the call. I mean, how the hell would they be able to almost DEFEAT the Federation by the alternate-timeline 2360's, if they were so weak and had no ship to even match the Ambassador class, never mind everything else the Feds had on the drawing board?! The Nebula, the Cheyenne, the New Orleans, etc. etc. etc. And all they had were K'Tingas and a few K'Vorts?! Literally meat on the table for Federation ships. I mean, ok, the Feds also had the Cardassians to deal with at the time, but even with two fronts, Klingon ships of that era were likely no more advanced then Cardassian ships. Still easy picking for the full power of Starfleet. And Romulan ships were no better, since the Enterprise C held her own against 3 of their proto-Warbirds (forgot the name), destroying one of them before it was destroyed. It makes no sense on any level I can think of. As weak and corrupt as they were back then, they wouldn't have a chance against the Federation. And why didn't they attack the Romulans in retaliation for their incursions against their colonies?! Especially since the Romulans also weren't that strong during that time, having only started experimenting on their Warbird program. They would have been a pretty even match to them. But the Feds? We would have crushed them. Their "war" on the Federation would realistically be nothing more then a repeat of Cardassian border conflict, this time with Klingons in place of Cardassians. No... in light on this video, that TNG episode really falls apart for me, on every level. War lasting 20 years?! (assuming Klingon economy could even support that, AFTER loss of Praxis). Federation brought to a brink of DEFEAT?! Seriously What The Actual F-K?! As far as my head-canon is concerned, it didn't happen. Because it's patently absurd. Meanwhile, Romulans keep attacking Klingon colonies with ABSOLUTELY no response from the Klingons?! Wow. Instead, the Feds are apparently guilty for EVERYTHING, for not defending an obscure Klingon colony we had ZERO obligation to defend, because we weren't even allies at the time?! Ridiculous. My new head cannon for Yesterday's Enterprise is as follows: Klingons make a foolhardy declaration of war in 2340's (forgot the exact year of the Narendra incident), over the "dishonorable cowardice" of the Enterprise-C. Starfleet CRUSHES them in a period of 18 months to 3 years (same as the Cardassian border "war"), then doesn't follow through, because the Federation will always opt for peace over conquest. Again, same as with the Cardassians. Next, the Romulan Star Empire invades the severely weakened Klingon Empire, and conquers them, in a period of next... let's say 10 years (2350's). The Federation "condemns" it, but does nothing, since it benefits us to see those two slug it out. The Klingons being Klingons, form a persistent resistance movement, keeping the Romulans completely tied up trying to maintain their control well into the 2360's, and the Federation is basically free to expand and explore even further, without Romulans throwing monkey-wrenches in our plans.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

I agree with your assessment. The war shown in yesterday's enterprise makes no sense. As for why the klingons would declare war. The klingons lash out when weak. And they would attack the federation since they seemed weakest. Likely with covert romulan support.

[@necroticavalon5176]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Sure, they'd attack us... and then get their asses handed to them. But war lasting 20 years and almost defeating us, that's absurd. Anyway that would leave the Federation more vulnerable to the Borg and the Dominion down the line, so ultimately it would still prove to be an inferior timeline for us, but at least until mid 2360's we would probably be better off then the "prime" timeline. The Fed "golden age" would last a few more years. It would probably end up with the Dominion conquering the Alpha quadrant, since the Feds alone could never stop them, and the Romulans wouldn't get involved until far too late (being busy keeping the Klingons in line). And obviously the Klingons would be absent alltogether.

[@krispalermo8133]

@@necroticavalon5176 Couple of points as to why the Klingon Empire would have went to war with the Federation instead of the Romulans, .. 1.) TOS, there was a on going rivalry between the K.E. & the Feds. 2.) the game " Klingon Academy " where you have an entire generation of officers schooled into waging a war with the Feds. 3.) The K.E. found a few new and very rich fuel deposit world to run their empire off of. 4.) Klingons love battle and a good fight, after they did some quick Romulan boarder raids they turn back to their old rivalry with the Feds. As to the way the war lasted 20 odd years, look at how long the police action of the USA in Afghanistan has lasted and what it accomplished. Other points from my old table top wargaming rpg group, .. 1.) Feds had a multiple front board war going on. 2.) Klingons had a Romulan backer which was also under mining the Feds. 3.) The Romulans let the Klingons spank them hard then sued for peace with promise of fuel/ supplies to take down the Feds. There was just something bout the TOS era rivalry the humans & Klingons had for each other. Where the Romulans are known to play on egos. 4.) My game shop had WotC Star Wars 3.5e " Starships of the Galaxy " and ran a ST campaign using SW rpg rule book for the game. Cost value wise you can put out more BoP than you can field D7s. Sensor stealth fields/ cloaks can help a small fleet get in close to swan a location and cut of supply chains. Along with hit an runs, after the empire hit a target they just wait around in cloak till re enforcements showed up then hit those ships when their shields were down. The Klingons had a different view on honor to reach total victory in that timeline alternate reality. I love your post on calling out the plot holes in that episode. If you know the target location and the placement of long range warp scanners where they are free floating rely stations or attach to larger ship station. Then is it possible to warp into the system using the system star as cover in your attack run. Then factor in cloaking the attack fleet can come out of nowhere.

[@necroticavalon5176]

@@krispalermo8133 Ok frst off, your analogy is wrong. Afghanistan was literally a policing action. This is an INVASION of Federation territory by the Klingons. That would be like China or Russia invading continental USA, in our terms. Now you tell me that kind of war will last 20 years, and I'll laugh so hard my teeth will fall out. Oh except the Klingons in this time period were nowhere near the comparative power level of China or Russia, compared to USA. Let's say... it would be like Iran invading USA mainland. Second, yes, Klingons love a good fight. What they'd get wouldn't be a good fight. It would be them playing target pigeons on a skeet range, for Federation starships. Unless you seriously think a bunch of K'tinga's and K'vorts (and maaaaaybe a few early prototype Vor'cha's, though the canon is they were developed as a response to the Galaxy class, so too early, but let's be generous) have a snowball's chance in hell, against the likes of Ambassadors, Challengers, Niagaras, New Orleanses, Freedoms, etc, all the ships of the Brahms initiative. And that's not even counting all the THOUSANDS of Excelsiors and Mirandas and their assorted variants. So not only are the Klingons outgunned, they're also outnumbered by let's be generous, and say 2 to 1. Realistically more like 3 to 1. Reminder. A K'tinga is a match for a MIRANDA class. No more. Maybe slightly stronger. And K'vorts are just glorified birds of prey. That scene of 3 K'vorts bashing Enterprise in the episode is LAUGHABLE. A Galaxy class would swat them like flies. Yes they have cloak. The Feds have proven time and again to develop sensor tech to break through the cloak. That advantage would last the Klingons maybe 2 months, before Starfleet Corps of Engineers develops effective counters. And finally, let's look at the economy. You can spin all the little fairy-tales about the Klingons finding new resource-rich worlds, the fact is, there is ZERO proof of that in canon. And even if they did, they're facing a Federation of 150 member species, and probably a few THOUSAND resource-rich chunks of rock to mine. So yes. No matter how you turn it. The Klingons would be curb-stomped by the Federation, during that time-period. Even with some Romulan backing (which Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31 would sniff out VERY quickly).

[@krispalermo8133]

@@necroticavalon5176 Thank you for paragraphing your statement, makes it easier to read, also .. I agree with every point you made. Problem with Star trek so called canon, the plot holes at times are so big you could fly a fleet of Borg cubes through them. But when it comes down to Klingon pulse disruptor cannons which is a single frequency impact weapon. Compare to UFP ship tracking targeting system laying down a steady steam of multiple frequency pulse impacts seconds worth of fire to get through shields and break apart a materials electro magnetic bonds. My money is on UFP phasers and weapon enplacement mounts.

[@nicholasmorsovillo2752]

It was mentioned in the spacedock video on the Negh'Var class that because of Gowron's actions that the Negh'Var classes construction was rushed which is why it had a lot of problems in particular with the cloaking device and the 2 heavy disrupter cannons.

[@MrJ.31]

One thing I always wanted to see on DS9 was a showdown between the Negh'var and Dominion Battleship. Always wondered how that one would turn out

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

not well for the negh'var...

[@MrJ.31]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Not at all huh? I would've assumed that it would stand a decent chance. I always kinda figured that tactically the Negh'var would be at least close to if not equal to a Sovereign before the refits. I would assume a Sovereign could stand a chance against a Dom Battleship. Do you think the allies had anything that could topple one in a fair fight? Maybe Prometheus?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@MrJ.31 so with regard to a negh'var vs Sovereign the original does have more firepower thanks to the siege guns, but it is far less agile. if you remove the guns with the Voodeih variant they are much more on par but sovereign has quantum torpedoes. a better comparison is negh'var vs Galaxy in terms of tech. the thing you have to understand about the dominion battleship is that is carries siege guns 600m long! one hit from those and your done. and while it is very slow and cumbersome it has a metric ton of torpedoes as it PRIMARY armament. so being agile doesn't help you much. its also very heavily armored. no i don't think the allies had anything that could take it 1 on 1 but its basically the Maus tank. very few were built and would almost never fight in 1 on 1 engagements.

[@MrJ.31]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 ah gotcha yeah that is true. Btw I just wanna give you a quick shout out. I've been diggin the channel for a while now and never get tired of the vids no matter how many times I replay them. Kudos bro. I really got into that segment you did on the Cardassian Hutet. Speaking of I wonder if that one or the Achilles would be enough to take down that Dom ship. Would've been interesting. Ever think of doing a vid on the Achilles?

[@krispalermo8133]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Covert Dominion / Star Trek ships with the WotC Star Wars 3.5e RPG " Starships of the Galaxy." Comes down to the Rebel tactic of creating a 12 ton fragmentation grenade and tossing it at the other mile long ship at ramming speed. Which by the system of material hardness/ wound points per cm. will tear apart every cm of the ISD 1,600m super structure frame. As for a more ST theme, create a 36 contact sphere of anit matter to implode into a center point. Just create a bigger photon torpedo that you just push out of the side of a cargo room airlock that flies off on it's own. Shuttle have been know, forgot which episode .. that can leave a ship during warp speed. Then there is a difference between creating a high action drama tv episode to a table top game where you seek to create a missile to .. snip .. an enemy at range. For instance if you accelerated a photon torpedo to near/ at light speed stated at being 247.5kilog( rounded to 248kilog for easier math) will have a very much higher kinetic impact detonation than its anti mater payload ever could.

[@sigurdrr1015]

The story of Vor'Cha and Negh'Var is quite the treat

[@charlesmorgan7219]

The most in depth history of klingon warship design I've ever seen. Superb video.

[@jimbeam4736]

Wow, what a comprehensive and well narrated history lesson. Brilliantly done, great work!

[@letsgo4834]

The pronunciation of D’Deridex in these videos makes it sound like it was ordered by Berlin and built in Stuttgart lol 😂

[@madrabbit9007]

I love these videos. Its like watching a BBC documentary on the Royal Navy. Can't wait for you to delv into the many Federation classes.

[@Qardo]

Am I the only one that saw it kind of funny. That a woman designed the Negh'Var. When in the story the two brothers Vor'cha and Negh'Var pretty much killed each other over a woman. So in more of a redemption. A woman brought the two brothers back. All to fight once again. For honor and loyalty. For the Empire! Where is the Blood Wine?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

klingon history does have a poetic tendency.

[@EugenioAngueira]

Excellent video looking at Klingon ships. The modular aspect of the Vorcha is really well reviewed.

[@andrewstark34]

I wish they would make a star trek Klingon TV show and worf would be captain of his own ship that would be great!

[@matthewbrune5490]

Would be a good interlude between the end of DS9 and STO

[@AcheLone]

prepare for ramming speed!!!

[@gups4963]

Just keep Kurtzman away lol

[@Big_Black_Dick]

we all have to share these videos and get this guy more subscribers, if he starts making money he will make more videos for us

[@anthonywilliams2606]

wow your narration is so dope I'm a subscriber .love what your doing please keep up the good work.god bless my brother

[@franzhaas6889]

I LOVE GOING INTO BOTTLE!

[@zoesdada8923]

That proverb, "it is not metal but man who brings a ship to life" is pretty much the answer to the riddle of steel which states it is not steel that is strong. Flesh is stronger because steel is no use without the hand to wield it.

[@Big_Black_Dick]

crazy sick video bro, i thank GOD 🙏🏽 that u are around making this stuff for us

[@kalajel]

Ah, good ol' bug-eyed Gowron.

[@qrogueuk]

Enjoyable upload, well done sir!

[@scifinerd1911]

I really enjoyed this video thank you so much for making it

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

Even a Klingon knows the most sacred of oaths has always been bros before hoes.

[@TwanDelRio]

Great vid. Keep em coming!

[@Shortsircut1]

Wow! Really well done, thank you.

[@glennlaroche1524]

Awesome job--very creative content.

[@TheBlackSpider82]

Absolutely love your content man! :)

[@terranempire2]

I like to think the Voodieh variant is the version sold to house fleets. Basically it’s stripped as the High council doesn’t want house fleets glassing planets of rivals… especially their own. They are likely pushed for service as escorts against raiders where the KDF version is meant for actual invasion.

[@nicholasmorsovillo2752]

So the Klingons having bussard RamScoops on their ships warp nacelles would explain the new look as a reversed engineering look of a federation design on both the Vor'Cha and Negh'Var classes.

[@mattosullivan9687]

So Klingon Washington crossing the Delaware?

[@BrotherDerrick3X]

Kahless crossed the River Skrall.

[@Emanon...]

Loved the painting of Negh'Var crossing the...ehh.. Del'Avarr river?

[@andrewstark34]

The bird of pray is still the best warship in the fleet !

[@kolloduke3341]

The excelsior class star trek design is sooooo ugly all klingon ships are ordered to destroy her as she is an offence to all known ship designs !!! lol

[@tougheddie7297]

Nice art work. Damm good video

[@bencoomer2000]

I liked this design a lot.

[@robertdahammer4850]

Great video!!!

[@tyrrellr.parker3272]

The ambassador class "Heavy Explorer". remember Starfleet is not a military organization remember.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

sure ;)

[@robyzola4858]

thise are sooo great videos!!!!! I love it!!

[@NamisJC]

Nice video man!

[@willusa2927]

Very good video a lot of content and like how he broke it down good job

[@KhemistryIBMOR]

Good job!

[@brandonwachter2264]

Good job brother 😎👍

[@komradewirelesscaller6716]

Great vid!

[@jeffhallam2004]

Great videos! Where do you get all your information? Its amazing!

[@hawkstringfellow]

Great video

[@JeanLucCaptain]

so Vor'cha & Negh'var are basically Gork and Mork? one is kinnin but brutal the other brutal but kunin?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

WARRRGGG!

[@JeanLucCaptain]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 NEXT EPISODE: WAAAGHS OF MORK, DA KILL KROOZA!

[@Dawnspell8]

Venom Geek Media. What is the next development in Klingon ships? The D-11?

[@marcusjustice6165]

2353 to 2355 Klingon Defense Force KDF I.K.S. Vor'Cha 2357 Starfleet Command SFC U.S.S. Galaxy NX-70637

[@kizo82]

Which federation ship is @16:56?

[@mauricio-wq5lu]

Love it! You have a gift. If I may suggest. Do a video about real history with the same style you have. I humbly suggest the now legendary Yamato , Bismark, PT boats, U boats. We humans have a great history as well that we should be proud of as well.

[@adamsmyth1156]

there is nothing legendary about the Yamato or the Bismarck. The Yamato was a hotel whose only combat experience was attacking converted merchantmen and destroyers ((which chased her off)) and being sunk by carrier aircraft. She spent more time as a hotel for Admirals. The Bismarck was a Inter-War Built battleship with ww1 style turrets, rudders, and props whose only success was sinking a ship that was by 1938 deemed by her own navy as dangrerously obsolete and whom when sunk in battle was compared to sending a Victorian Battleship into Battle at Jutland.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

i do like history. big stuff like the yamamoto and bismark much like german heavy tanks has been done to death. but i am quite a fan of cold war jets (as you might have guessed) and Napoleonic history. so i am quite tempted to make videos about that.

[@mr.piccolo186]

These two forgot the first rule of the Bro Code.... shame.

[@adambowie795]

excellent

[@myrrdhinemrys4929]

wish that would be in Klingon, just with english subtitles please :D

[@ericweis9771]

But neither were a match for....... The Dominion Super Battleship!

[@Moadar]

Negh'var vs Kerchan who wins?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Kerchan by far. its a more modern design and the romulans have more experience in using battleships. while impressive the Negh'var loses many of the aspects that make a ship klingon lacking speed and agility.

[@Moadar]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Awesome. I love your vids. Keep up the great work.

[@MarkHurlow-cf2ix]

Never turn your back on a Breen….. that’s a Romulan saying…. Best ever saying in Star Trek……

[@cameronstoltie5952]

vorcha was denied his urge to mate lol

[@InFiHax]

Turn the gain down on your mic; there's a subtle buzzing. If that doesn't work, maybe invest in something of a higher quality. I'd also suggest a pop filter of some kind. Just a thought, thanks for the video.

[@Lukos0036]

You can make a pop filter out of panty hose and a cross stitch frame. Affix it with some coat hanger wire. Works just as well as the store bought ones.

[@searcherT]

power output of a heavy siege disruptor????????????

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

powerful enough to break the shields of ds9...

[@warp8368]

Klingon fighters?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

yeah you see them on some lcars. knowing the klingons they are probably just even smaller BOPS

[@CraigEaton]

Klingons don't use poison

[@adamsmyth1156]

K'mpec and an entire story arc would hugely disagree.

[@kenwaid8239]

Don't Klingons pour poison on the q'utluch? It's considered dishonorable as it doesn't allow your opponent a chance at an honorable death earning them a place in Stovoquor. Forgive the phonetic spelling but Tlingan Hoj is not my first language.

[@smileygabe22]

Can someone explain WHY THE HELL were the federation losing towards the Klingon? They had outdated tech, their main dilethium supply ruined, makes no sense to me

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

when do the federation lose to the klingons?

[@wastelandgirl__7791]

I think, he means in TNG, where a federate ship (one of the Enterprises?)flies forward in time - the ship, which had otherwise defend a klingon colony against a romulan fleet. this changes the timeline, and the federation is near to lose war against the Klingons (6:40).

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@wastelandgirl__7791 yeah even in that timeline it makes no sense, since praxis had already happened and the empire was falling into stagnancy. it may be that the klingons in that timeline were given romulan aid.

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@venomgeekmedia9886 must the traitorous House of Duras.

[@Not-Ap]

Ever consider some of these on the cardassians or other alien races in trek?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

considered yes. but the isn't really enough material on the cardassians to do a full episode. however i will do smaller breakdowns in a future series.

[@Not-Ap]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Nice! I look forward to it.

[@briankriens5645]

Hate to bring this up, but Qonos and the entire Klingon Empire is in the Beta Quadrant.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

true but in the show they always say alpha quadrant. and its just a convenient hold-all term

[@briankriens5645]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 When I was watching DS9 it always confused me as well. Pretty sure Earth is even in the Beta Q, but even when on Earth they would only talk about the fate of the Alpha Q.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@briankriens5645 actually earth as sector 001 is both in the alpha and beta q its on the line of meridian. just like the Greenwich Meridian is on london. so the rest of the world gets its time from britain.

[@mikegonzalez8240]

Only a dishonorable Durass(spell wrong for a reason)used poison.

[@TheWoblinGoblin]

Is that Klingon authentic?

[@mostlymessingabout]

70 years for a new Klingon cruiser. Meanwhile Federation shit out a new class every star date 🤣🤣🤣

[@LordMJ]

How could the Klingons have defeated the Federation in the Yesterday's Enterprise timeline?

[@Hartzilla2007]

The tie-ins books had the Klingons use their 18 year cold war with the Cardassians to rebuild their military, so probably something like that.

[@nozislam]

Is this actually cannon?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

the only things in trek that are cannon are the on screen media. books and other materiel are classed as beta cannon. given how little information there is on screen i often make conjecture based on what is shown on screen.

[@jpasby779]

Nice video but the STD Klingon's are part of a different Time line/universe and don't count.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

i guess now that the time traveling red angel is involved thats true. but i did wan't to acknowledge the fact that they did a proper D7 which looked amazing in the new colors. but also because the sarcophagus ship is an ancient ship it perhaps predates the divergent timeline.

[@jpasby779]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Every thing that I have seen per the STD Klingons looks completely alien to the Prime Time line Klingons.

[@jpasby779]

If the STD Klingons are included in this then why not Kelvin Timeline too? something to think about.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@jpasby779 unfortunately just because they don't look like prime doesn't mean they aren't. i'll take any prime cannon i can get these days.

[@jpasby779]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Nothing about STD is Prime. The tech is out of place between Enterprise and TOS, the ships are out of place, the new Constitution Class isn't the same as Prime. Go watch enterprise then TOS all of both Series. The tech in STD is closer to that of the Kelvin timeline, per the stuff seen on the bridges.

[@gups4963]

Klingons on their way to Trenton lol

[@rodimuspryme1267]

More nacelles doesn’t translate to longer range

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

in fairness i don't think a reason is ever given for why you have 4. my thinking was that you could spread the burden and so maintain higher speeds for longer.

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

It's a lesson to try to tell young men don't let a sneaking snake in the grass deceptive lying cheating dishonest woman and they're all like that get in between you and your brother or your best friend or whatever

[@briananthony4044]

Don't spit your words.

[@piotrd.4850]

Defense in Klingon Defence Force was probably one of largest flops of Star Trek lore....

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

aye. i always thought it was a condition of the kithomer treaty. essentially mandating the state maintain a purely defensive force. the loophole was simply to disperse military assets among the great houses, and assemble them under the chancellors authority when required.

[@nsr-ints]

​@@venomgeekmedia9886"Nooo, this isn't a military! We're just a defence force, see? Oh, those? Just... State funded militia group that we could activate in case of war!"

[@kolloduke3341]

NOTHING SURPASSES THE BIRD OF PREY DESIGN THAT NEW VORCHA LOOKS SHITE !!!!..

[@andrewstark34]

The bird of pray is still the best warship in the fleet !