Winners & Losers of China’s Brutal EV Market

[@oceanwave4502]

EU can mount up tarrif against China's products, but the products keep flowing in the rest of the world. This means European companies won't sell enough cars to justify R&D cost (among other costs). In the end, the price per unit by European car will be extremely high, and European consumers will pay this high price.

[@LaowaiDaveJCP]

They've always done the same

[@JogBird]

and china will immediately cut german ice exports to china

[@vervetech9395]

EU/US jealous nature always hurt themselves in the end because the rest of the world would never follow their stupidity.

[@ciybersal3499]

Europe and USA are warmongers, destroying the planet. Meanwhile China is exporting technology and deflation to make the world better

[@dyu999]

Don't buy any car if you can't afford

[@hermesliteratus882]

When you cannot compete with them, just slap tariffs on them or ban them, that's what they call free market in the US and EU.

[@quartwin6269]

We're either stupid, or they're rather smart. Let's all know the west has interest not commitment. When they say look right, look left instead. By their deeds you shall know them. We know them now....very well.😢

[@Robbert_nl]

You mean what China has been doing for decades?

[@whistlingdiesel]

Compete with slave wages and 48+h weeks? Come on do you support that?

[@ToheedAkhtar-t4i]

This the real face of democracy getting unveiled

[@tooltalk]

Sure, just like how China shadow-banned foreign battery competitors since 2016 -- they still have limited access to China's local EV market to this date with less than 1% market share.

[@carlosmurgelcddr.1418]

Europe and USA love Free Market when they have advantages and sell abroad, but when others are better than them they cose the market. Patetic!

[@Robbert_nl]

For what or who did 'Europe' close the market?

[@tuomasandersson3889]

From chinese Ev makers of course by setting tariffs on them. If European automakers can't compete then they can go.

[@tooltalk]

Sure, nobody complains when China bans foreign battery competitors under MIC2025 since 2016. All of sudden, it's unfair when it's reciprocated.

[@Robbert_nl]

@@tuomasandersson3889 If setting tariffs is the same as closing a market for others, China has closed their market for decades now.

[@patriotamerican3069]

Chinese are the biggest abusers of WTO. The Chinese are abusing the WTO page by page and line by line because they know very well they can not win fair competition. They also steal foreign patents. Preach your Chinese buddies to play fair games if they don’t want to face tarriefs.

[@sydca5365]

look, we all know that the Americans are becoming more and more exasperated, paranoid and hysterical about China, almost losing control.

[@tooltalk]

It's actually the CCP running out of time. This week the EU is going to announce their punitive tariff against China.

[@bandit6048]

And YOU are not concerned enough

[@MADDENCN]

Us already lost

[@n.wealand-pasttime]

Lol

[@jjchang6141]

There is no way to deal with China, China is even more powerful than the United States in terms of military strength, haha

[@armchairwarrior963]

Funny thing is China wanted to build batteries in Germany, but since EU/Germany is going full US vassal mode. China won't be building those factories. It still going to be Hungary for batteries.

[@tooltalk]

You know what's even more funny? China has banned foreign battery companies since 2016 under MIC2025.

[@tooltalk]

You know what is funnier? China banned foreign battery competitors under MIC2025 since 2016. And now China is crying because nbody wants their battery plants. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@idea_c365]

​@@tooltalk Your words fit your name.Tool-talk,No need to think.

[@YSKWatch]

​@@tooltalkchina never ban any battery producers, you keep telling people that l i e. many foreign battery producers are in china, but they are insignificant compared to the giants. your capability to cross check the data and logic is inexistent.

[@richardlo4867]

Well the Germans are known to be fond of pledging allegiance to a fuhrer Uber Alles however bad it turns out

[@DouglasW-m9z]

The next overcapacity from China is the space industry, space station overcapacity, landing on the Moon Overcapacity, landing on the Mars overcapacity, Space Travelling Overcapacity. Or Generally Space Invader 😂😂😂😂

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

China makes everything.. that's why it's hated

[@GGLEDOU]

The West is at overcapacity of lies. That's why PUTIN call them the Empire of lies.

[@ruili5579]

let me tell you how China subside their ev industry. in China we have millions of fast changing post, subside by government, if you buy a ev, you don't need to worry about mile range. in China we have cheap electricity, much cheaper than oil. ev is 80% cheaper than the one use oil. in China, especially mega city, because there is too much cars you need to win a lottery to register. and ev has better odds in lottery. next, we let 100 ev company compete in a ev friend market. and now only about ten brand is alive. us or Europe didn't subside their auto industry? it is just their subside will damage competition, make their product less competitive and making company rich. and overcapacity? you make more, selling to other countries, that is market. the best selling car brand in China 2023 is Volkswagen.

[@nxkm813]

It’s gasoline (or just call it gas), not oil. Oil means 机油😂

[@hwe001]

@@nxkm813 well, oil is not a wrong word in this context, it may be petrol or diesel. On the other hand, oil is less likely to be 机油 or lubricant if this is what you mean.

[@thyristo]

Hitler's Volkswagen is now going down. 😉

[@ciybersal3499]

It's BYD not VW

[@armandosoares6196]

1 bi of common chinese riding bike citizen subsiding car all over the world

[@JSG-m1t]

Putting military parade in a video about Chinese cars. Typical DW propaganda.

[@saifuddin4581]

Yes I agreed 👍

[@齐天大圣-t5f]

This can highlight the threat, and many western media have such narrative logic.

[@JSG-m1t]

@@齐天大圣-t5f They are implying that Chinese cars are invading them

[@RR_reunificationRights]

cia agent is controlling europe

[@vichitvideo6041]

DW was desperately trying to portray China negatively. In so doing it forgot that these two portraits have different contents unrelated to each other.

[@soowo5942]

isn't that free market and capitalism at work?

[@tooltalk]

China doesn't believe or practice free market or capitalism.

[@marvinfok65]

Free market & capitalism is up to how the West describe them. This is what Blinken had been preaching for a long time which he called them 'playing by the rules'. Whose rules? The West's rules!

[@amandagrant4331]

In fact, free competition was taught to China by the West. Ironically, the west is increasingly afraid of free competition. In the history of solar energy industry development in China, many enterprises went bankrupt (because of competition failure). But this has not affected the surviving enterprises to dominate the global market. If the government always consider "protection", enterprises will only become lazier and fatter.

[@nickchkheidze9189]

Free market is good only when it serves their interests 🤣 western governments are hypocrites

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Usa sanctioned ICC. U can imagine how is works

[@franknjamen3044]

When ur german cars were invading China and around the world it wasn't brutal 😅 But now China car are far better and very innovative it's brutal, overcapacity 😅 Stupid monologue.

[@kreativechaos7606]

Same with US😂

[@MaticTheProto]

Invaded? China was a shithole with 0 car industry. They asked us to come under the condition we share our knowledge with them.

[@vueport99]

German cars never 'invade' China. The rich amongst your elites were fighting each other to buy them. Everyone in China knows German cars are the gold standard, and that's why SU7 copied it. Just because you can't afford one, don't cry little frog. Stay safe and cold in your dark well. And get off VPN! it's illegal!

[@_SPREZZATURA_McGEE_]

The Chinese cars are NOT better, and the innovations are just copied or stolen tech, mostly. What they are, is... cheaper. Subsidised by Xi's Govt to cost less than the competition by using dangerous cost-cutting and cheaper materials. And cheaply built EVs are not a tenable Biz Model. Exhibit A: Tesla!!

[@toyotaprius79]

Truth

[@rededwards3479]

Regions don't have to close their markets to Chinese cars....Chinese and Tesla Electric cars have PROVEN Tech, Safety, Reliability, DESIRE and COST. Pay China or Tesla a LICENSE Fee and Manufacturer those Cars and Specs in your Region......Doing so will allow you to LEARN, IMPROVE upon, and one day BUILD your Own Great car.....How do You think China learned how to Build cars...They didn't just wake up and build a car......

[@tooltalk]

Yeah and you continue to deny that Tesla is an American company.

[@bandit6048]

Your right, they stole the designs from Western companies like they always do

[@ivybae9906]

@tooltalk wat? in wat way Does he deny Tesla is an American company? Stop putting ur words into others mouth for gods sake!

[@MaticTheProto]

Why don't you use some more capslock you child

[@wallacekatini3424]

The US and its vassals are now in a panic mode! Finished!😂😂

[@dyu999]

Chyna is in despair mode 🤣

[@BruceJ999]

​@@dyu999Cry more 😂😂keep taking copium

[@dyu999]

@@BruceJ999 don't cry, Turkey imposed 40% on top of 50% tariffs on chyna cars

[@dyu999]

@@BruceJ999 free copium enclosed in chyna ev sale 😫

[@MGZetta]

@@dyu999 Turkey? why do you think that country is relevant? few days ago his foreign minister begging for bricks membership in beijing.

[@Huaxiaviewpoint华夏观点]

The Chinese government does not subsidize EV companies, but only provides subsidies to consumers for purchasing cars. The data you collected is completely fake.

[@filippxx]

Hard to be a bot defending against the obvious

[@eoky]

@@filippxxEven the bot has progressed. You haven’t 😅

[@yumyumgimmesum]

The Chinese Government gave NIO a billion dollars.

[@marvinfok65]

DW is owned by Americans, so DW have to provide FAKE China news! Anything can be truth, but NOT anything related to China unless it is a negative news. Let's be straight about this, is Germany an independent country? NO! If you have foreign troops stationed in your country and they have the right to the command of your defence just like Japan, you are not independent!

[@tooltalk]

@@eoky : can't beat 1.500,000,000,000 wumaos working 996.

[@williamwatitwa3534]

The world: lets switch to NEVs China. : ok The world, noo!

[@watercutterlan1401]

your world is small

[@ZgO_o]

Bruh its only in U.S and E.U cuz Japan and other places are negotiating and joining hands to compete like Brazil wantsnChina to build a manufacturing base in Brazil in a decade after that 25% tarrif and BYD is going to build it. The real issue is China is far better in technology of tomorrow than U.S and E.U like solar, wind and now even semi-conducter China had a breakthrough in 3nm a couple of weeks ago and U.S so called expert claimed it would take China a decade just with 5 nm. The real reason is increasing irrelevence of the west and U.S is getting more and more paranoid otherwise a real capitalism would join the bandwagon to make profits from biggest market in the world

[@JSG-m1t]

You mean the west

[@binchen]

The world is much bigger than US and its vassal states.

[@vervetech9395]

Correction: It's only the west (less than 11% of the world)

[@niosanfrancisco]

GO NIO !

[@jayzhang7527]

I found that DW and other EU media are also consistent with the political agenda of the politicians in the EU, can they just be critical of what the politicians do? do they still have the freedom of mind?

[@GGLEDOU]

Freedom is nowadays an empty word.

[@boxscorewatcher413]

What simpletons do not understand is tariffs are passed onto the consumer.

[@nickngunjiri4282]

When you can't compete with them ban them.

[@tooltalk]

Just like China did back in 2016 by banning all foreign battery makers to protect BYD/CATL.

[@liuyangyang]

@@tooltalk so what? If EU bans chinese EVs, lets see BMW and Audi

[@tooltalk]

​@@liuyangyang BMW and Audi were forced to use Chinese made batteries by a local Chinese company, in this particular instance AESC in China since 2016. It's "so what" if China bans foreign battery makers, but "unfair" if we ban Chinese batteries. LOL

[@nickngunjiri4282]

@tooltalk I love the way you are spinning propaganda, it would be good if you could visit China and see factual information specifically areas like Shenzhen, where caping was removed in 2016 and Tesla entered the Chinese market, until today Shanghai, Guangdong, fujian, and Tianjin are free zone for battery manufacturing.

[@ZgO_o]

They are angry because they can't have a big piece of the pie and communists are playing better capitalism than so called capitalism boss U.S, uncle Sam's non existing honour is hurt

[@mosesbanda4892]

It's unfortunate that when we fail to compete it's unfair competition while we ahead it's it's free market at work.

[@tooltalk]

Aren't you Chinese? so it's the opposite.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

​@@tooltalkHuawei is banned in the US but Apple operates in China, BYD is banned in the US but Tesla is in China, the US also bans China from buying chips that are in the US monopoly and many more

[@johnnywalker2870]

US and EU are not the world!

[@tooltalk]

Please don't trade with the US or the UE -- go sell EVs outside where there is no electrificity or paved roads.

[@johnnywalker2870]

@@tooltalk ignoramus!

[@danwelterweight4137]

That just shows how ignorant, arrogant and stupid the Westerner is. To think the rest of the world outside the west doesn't have paved roads and electricity. Just the members of the Brics alone have a higher GDP than the G-7 countries. Brazil and Mexico alone have a bigger population than all of Western Europe alone. Not only do they manufacture vehicles, they manufacture commercial jet planes. And there are almost 600 million people in Latin America And have you been to South East Asia or any ASEAN country. 800 million people. The infrastructure in many South East Asian countries like Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Singapore makes Western countries look like developing countries. You think they don't have electricity or paved roads in these countries I am not even talking about the Middle East. The West in terms of infrastructure has fallen way behind the rest of the world.

[@vervetech9395]

​​@@tooltalkYou believe most of the world don't have paved roads? Tell me you know less about the world without telling me. The west makes up just a fraction of Chinese exports. The Global South buys the most from China. EU sells to the large Chinese market. So go ahead and impose trade restrictions which China would inevitably respond in kind by cutting off access to the Chinese market (larger than Europe) and let's see whose economy suffers because of their arrogance and fragile ego.

[@navsofour2892]

@@tooltalk The US and UE won't trade with LatinAmerica or Africa because their food producers would be crushed.

[@dravenvea2605]

BYD, NIO, LI auto, all of them make better EVS so survived fierce market competition. Those who can't vanished. It's misguided for Europe and USA to attribute their success to merely Government subsidy.

[@Robbert_nl]

You realize those Chinese brands wouldn't have been alive now without Chinese government subsidies?

[@ruili5579]

​@@Robbert_nl now there is no subside, they still alive.

[@tooltalk]

If Chinese are indeed so good, why have they banned foreign battery competitors from local EV market since 2016 -- they still don't have access to China's local EV market.

[@tooltalk]

@@ruili5579 China's EV subsidise have been around since 2009; renewed/extended every 3-4 years. The last "direct purchase" subsidies ended on Jan 1, 2023, but in June 2023 it was again extended as "tax credit" for another 4 years with a budget of $72+B.

[@Robbert_nl]

@@ruili5579 Apart from it not being true (read the comment above this one), it also shows that many aren’t surviving at all.

[@alko_xo]

Looks like the only place where real competition exists which brings real innovations. How about that, Germany?

[@HanumanDas-s1n]

So many people will benefit from affordable Chinese EVs.

[@captainseadog7600]

If you want to die … buy Chinese cars

[@齐天大圣-t5f]

My father bought a BYD Dolphin in 2023 to take his granddaughter to school, even though he didn't get a driver's license until he was 69 years old. It was the first car in his life.😁

[@RR_reunificationRights]

cheap goods make life easy

[@Levitiy]

Oof, I haven't learned to drive yet at 35yo. I got to fix that before I'm 69. It is way too comfortable to be given rides instead.

[@toyotaprius79]

Preferably children should be encouraged to have autonomy of mobility, such as walking, cycling and public transport. Driving our kids to school is detrimental to their development

[@toyotaprius79]

​@@Levitiydon't, be the bigger person and justify for better public transport, etc

[@asadaden]

He said unbiased information 😂😂😂

[@jmagx]

If you take a drink every time the word "subsidy" is mentioned you would be drunk halfway through the video!

[@larryc1616]

The only car manufacturers left in 5-10 years are Tesla and Chinese ev manufacturers.

[@tooltalk]

Tesla is not going to last too long.. Just wait 'til 2Q comes out in a couple of months.

[@Thunderrolls87]

Doubt it. Especially the sucess of gas pickups suvs. I see that living in rural America. People buying new GM Ford trucks left and right. All you really see in this area are Detroit ICE vehicles.

[@kamsunleong6648]

​@@Thunderrolls87 The world is a lot bigger than rural America. Americans can stick to their Detriot made junk.

[@晨楚]

作为中国人，我并不认可，但是世界前十汽车制造企业，中国会有三个席位。目前前十五的十一到十五有四个中国车企，他们有潜力前十，最终前十五会有五个中国车企，这是比较理想的情况

[@ivybae9906]

@Thunderrolls87 since when situation in rural murika can represent other parts of the world huh? Just fyi, unlike murika, Pickup suvs NEVER win significant market shares in auto markets like Europe, China, Japan, India and ASEAN countries. And Detroit ice vehicles have never been dominant auto brands in these Foreign markets either.

[@josetan799]

What subsidies are America saying to china,America is subsidizing their country by printing soo much money to survive, are the politicians are soo dumb talking about subsidies, 😂😂😂

[@4eyefishball53]

If European people dont like to buy Chinese ev, simply don't. Just buy your own country's ev and also buy all your self-manufactured products from your own European countries. It's a free market. If you want to pay more, do it. Let the inflation flies.

[@azmatbilall]

Wth is an over capacity issue? It may be an issue for EU car makers but its the best thing for consumers who can get good quality product at a reduced rate.

[@Manni24986]

Global was used several times but narratives stayed around the EU and the US. What about Africa, South America and Asia? These actually are the growing markets to focus on and China is quietly doing a fabulous job there

[@phan1182]

25%-->100% tariff is a sign of desperation. The US consumers suffer in the short term and the Detroit car makers dies in the long term

[@maxchen7229]

For years, the German and 3 big car companies from US made a huge amount of money. Somehow, the table turned around, which made European and American uncomfortable. It’s understandable! You forgot to mention another factor: cheap labor in China. Someday the cheap labor will disappear.

[@glorf1234]

What is wrong here? The world desperately needs cheap EV's and solar panels and China provides it. It's not overcapacity if there is demand.

[@sawpw9197]

The fact is the Chinese work much harder and more obedient than their western counterparts. The proof is in the pudding. The Trans Canadian and Trans American railways were all constructed by the Chinese labourers though the westerners are usually twice the size.

[@tooltalk]

There is an overcapacity if it is funded by the gov't subsidies and China's local market can't absorb them.

[@glorf1234]

​@@tooltalk other coutries also have massive subsidies for all of those things like green energy and ev's. The chinese just have a more efficient government, superior production chain, more workers, experts and researchers. It's a tough pill to swallow for thr western capitalists so they put up tarifs instead of trying to compete.

[@tooltalk]

@@glorf1234 If it's efficient, there would be no overcapacity or companies going belly up. The gov't funded overcapacity has caused 500+ EV companies to pop up at one point which the gov't couldn't control, and now their overcapacity has to be dumped oversea causing all this commotion among other trading nations.

[@glorf1234]

@@tooltalk EV makers competing and some going bankrupt is called a free market. The consumers profit from this. In the west there is only Tesla and that's why it can afford to be twice the price in Europe for example. And if it's just a wave of bankrupt ev makers why would it be worrying. It would be a short term thing. The real problem is it would eat into profit margins from Tesla and they would need to try harder. EU now set the tarifs for chinese made cars to 9% for Tesla and 17% for BYD. For others 19-36%. In the long run this will hurt Tesla as they are in a way subsidized compared to other Chinese made cars like BYD. They will get lazy and fall behind.

[@khtan585]

PLEASE provide the defination of overcapacity and parameters used in so defined. How many % of German made cars are "consumed" in Germany and how may % are exported ?????? Overcapacity !!!!

[@tooltalk]

let me help you. overcapacity == illegal if it's funded by gov't subsidies. If BMW has overcapacity and can't sell them? they have to eat the cost, not the German taxpayers.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

​@@tooltalkthat's usa

[@TheGmr140]

Tariffs only hurt the consumer and never work, when will the world learn from history 😢😮

[@平面三郎]

To reduce gasoline usage, some cities in China offer a maximum subsidy of 72,000 RMB for Volkswagen electric vehicles, 33,000 RMB for Tesla cars, and 22,000 RMB for Li Auto vehicles. In China, the subsidies are provided to consumers for purchasing cars, not to car companies.

[@tooltalk]

wrong. You are still unable to tell the difference between consumer and industry subsidies.

[@DWREV]

The government also provide subsidies throughout the EV supply chain

[@MMT_Rod]

An excellent report on the auto sector. Government subsidies of course distort the markets, as reported in this video. But so does corporate monopoly power. Legacy auto and legacy energy has all the market power and no incentive to risk their existing monopolies, so they have always succeeded in killing off innovative EVs. Government incentives have been a critical catalyst to countering this monopoly power. Had auto and energy been free market, EVs would have taken over the world decades ago.

[@viljamikoivunen6297]

EV's can't compete without massive subsidies, mandates and tax reductions anywhere in world. So how would EV would have taken over decades ago? Consumers don't want EV's as much as politicians and few snake oil men (Elon Musk mostly)

[@DWREV]

Thanks for your comment! You’ve nailed some key issues here. Sure, government subsidies shake things up, but so do the big players in the auto and energy sectors. These companies have often tried to keep innovative EVs at bay to protect their turf. That’s why government incentives have been so crucial-they help even the playing field and push the EV market forward. If the market had been more open from the start, who knows, maybe EVs would have been mainstream much earlier. Glad you enjoyed the video, and please pass it on to a friend!

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

​@@DWREVHuawei is banned in the US but Apple operates in China, BYD is banned in the US but Tesla is in China, the US also bans China from buying chips that are in the US monopoly and many more

[@jm7476]

​@@jacksmith-mu3eeyes Huawei banned...bc of spionage charges...google,meta,etc banned in china long before Huawei BYD not banned , only tariffs Apple, tesla only allowed to sell in china because they are obligated to manufacture there (paying taxes to china and sharing tech with local china companies) China only allow westerns companies to sell in china, what they manufacture IN CHINA.... West don't do the same ,time to change

[@Facts..Checker]

Why not tell us more about North Stream 2 pipeline.....and WHY Germany or even thr whole Western Europe has no ballls to tell the truth or stand up for their freedom or independent sovereign interests. The quality and accuracy of Western MSM r really going downhill faster than we could watch!!!!

[@GGLEDOU]

They're afraid of their U.S. boss.

[@lovcenac100]

VIVA CHINA

[@oxvendivil442]

Got our BYD here in the Philippines, so far so good, better than European cars when it comes to drivability[cost excluded], the same reason Japanese and Korean cars dominated our market against European and American brands.

[@Peizxcv]

Shielding the weak won't save American and European auto makers. Survival can only come from competition

[@singularityagi5562]

If you finder a loser to speak about his business failures, he will find thousands of reasons to blame his competitors. Don’t expect loser to be honest.

[@Huaxiaviewpoint华夏观点]

Local governments only provide land concessions to new energy companies, which is no different from the United States and Germany. Local governments simply do not have the financial resources to subsidize EV companies.

[@tooltalk]

wumao, this is hilarious. This is part of the EU Commission's on-going anti-subsidy investigation launched last year: ... In particular, the Commission has found evidence, among others, of various grants, provision of loans, export credits and credit lines provided by State-owned banks or bonds underwritten by State-owned banks and other financial institutions at preferential terms, provision of preferential export insurance; income tax reductions and exemptions, dividend tax exemption, import and export tax rebates; VAT exemptions and rebates; and government provision of goods (such as raw and input materials as well as components) and services for less than adequate remuneration.

[@abasgait5457]

Unable to compete, they are giving all kinds of excuses... The Chinese should also impose 100% tariff to their cars coming to China..

[@mingouczjcz3800]

Early the this year, i heard the German government announced to subside its car industry with $100 billions. For new EV tech, it's very normal for governments to play a role to propel the transformation of thier auto industry with timely subsides.

[@Gladiatorking7]

winners are the customers saving huge money.

[@Discovery2024-rn8kn]

Since tariff is a tax on consumers, European. Consumers are the real losers

[@swapansinha5717]

Europe and USA loves free markets. But why they don't like Chinese ev...

[@tooltalk]

China still doesn't allow foreign battery makers from competing in China's local EV market.. they banned them in 2016 and still no access to China.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

​@@tooltalk Huawei is banned in the US but Apple operates in China, BYD is banned in the US but Tesla is in China, the US also bans China from buying chips that are in the US monopoly and many more

[@jm7476]

@@jacksmith-mu3ee WRONG!!!

[@yome1562]

How "overcapacity" differs from the many traditional capitalist mechanisms commonly employed by the same who criticize China?

[@tooltalk]

overcapacity = bad when gov't subsidizes it. overcapacity = your problem if it's funded privately (so long as it's not dumped oversea below cost).

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

​@@tooltalkHuawei is banned in the US but Apple operates in China, BYD is banned in the US but Tesla is in China, the US also bans China from buying chips that are in the US monopoly and many more

[@andreahalim191]

​@@tooltalkbelow cost? Are you fucking serious? Even in the vidio byd and several other companies are profitable 😂

[@futo]

Buick (GM) was the highest selling ICE vehicles for more than two decades in China, and VW came in as second best selling. German luxury cars, BMW, Mercedes and Audis also are still selling well, because of it's prestige. Plus GM and VW setup local plants, but now their cars aren't selling nowhere as much, especially in the case of GM. So now, they're throwing their arms up. CATL, China's largest battery producer, was willing to setup plants in the US, thus creating jobs. However, there were constant red tapes to block them even before Biden came into office. So raising tariff on Chinese EV as a call for unfair practice? Since when did American and German car companies doesn't get government grants at all? I still remember when GM and Chrysler Corp was bailed out by the American and also Canadian government.

[@tooltalk]

This is Tiktok all over again. China doesn't allow foreign EV battery makers to compete in China's local EV market; yet whines about the West's counter policies, such as the US IRA/EU's upcoming tariff. I mean I could partly understand why Facebook, Google, Instagram, etc.. are incompatible with China's oppressive authoritarian censorship rules, etc.. China's ban on foreign battery competition since 2016 is pure protectionism.

[@RR_reunificationRights]

winner: globalization loser: overcapacity

[@joezbz]

The third-largest market for European cars, China, took in passenger cars exported from the EU to the value of over 24 billion euros from January to December 2022.

[@marvinfok65]

European cars, especially German cars had FREE unhindered access to China for decades! But now, EU says, we can sell to you, but you are not allowed to sell to us!

[@tooltalk]

The Germans were REQUIRED to form a joint venture with a local competitor in China to share profit and transfer tech -- all violation under China's WTO obligation. And let's not forget China made tons of money selling auto-parts and billion in trade surplus with the rest of the world past 20 years.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

​@@tooltalkHuawei is banned in the US but Apple operates in China, BYD is banned in the US but Tesla is in China, the US also bans China from buying chips that are in the US monopoly and many more

[@marvinfok65]

@@jacksmith-mu3ee China used to import $350 billion worth of chips per year & most of them from American chip businesses like Qualcomm, Intel, AMD. But now China is going to make their own chips. Not only US is losing that business from China, but China is going to be US's chip businesses biggest & worst competitor in the global market! Cars will eventually be the same if the West did that too! Stupid Western mentality is going backfire like how the Russo-Ukrainian had backfired on the West economy with this crazy inflation! The West is run by some of the worst & most stupid politicians which will only bring the West down even further!

[@jm7476]

​​@@jacksmith-mu3eeand almost every western company not manufacturing in China is banned to sell there What are u talking about, bot

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

@@jm7476 source ? Proof ? Also which country is named west

[@GGLEDOU]

Why does China have no right to subsidize its automotive industry, whereas the U.S. and the E.U. do it endlessly? China has at least two reasons to do it: reducing pollution which causes health issues and being self suffficient in technology, face to endless Western sanctions.

[@tooltalk]

China can subsidize whatever they want. China's subsidized industry can't however export their subsidized products to other trading partners.

[@DWREV]

The argument is that these subsidies allow these EVs to be so cheap that other manufacturers cannot compete creating an un level playing field

[@GGLEDOU]

@@DWREV Cheapness isn't the main reason. Pollution fight and technology self sufficient are the main ones which concern every field, instead of being limited to the EVs.

[@GGLEDOU]

@@tooltalk It's only your ignorance. Subsidized products make them cheap. Therfore, China is able to export its products in Latin America as well as in Africa, in the Middle-East and in Asia.

[@tooltalk]

@@GGLEDOU wrong. the price level is not the key issue, but how China distorts international trade with subisdies in quest of domination.

[@mgronich948]

On direct subsidies to manufacturers. China has a carbon tax. Automakers who make ICE cars have to buy carbon units form makers of EVs. If a company makes as many EVs as ICE cars, they have don't need to pay another company to buy Carbon units. Tesla in 2022 got 900M in subsidies this way. This was lower than the 2.1B BYD got because BYD sold more EVs in china than Tesla. But this is not money from the government, but from other automakers. But it is cash for those who make EVs. Teslas made in China are exported to Europe and also to Canada.

[@banejova8643]

There are many other countries where Chinese ev will be welcomed because of the low price and better quality of.

[@tooltalk]

exactly, yet they "choose" to ship most of their EVs to EU. Why? because there ARE NOT MANY OTHER COUNTRIES.

[@santostv.]

But we have bigger purchasing power, the yanks are paying on average 40k for a new car, I don’t have data for developing countries but i bet is lower. H&m is considered a “luxury” brand in Latin America for example

[@tooltalk]

@@santostv. LOL. the yanks drive better, more expensive cars. Americans don't drive small, compact vehicles -- they drive big SUVs and work pickup trucks that cost $60K on AVG. Small like are popular in Asia and Europe, but not in the US -- it's only about 10% of the auto market and shrinking.

[@pauljosephsoh1732]

The world needs cheap new energy cars. So, even if Germany can make EVs, can they many cheap EVs using 100% Germany technology, energy, materials, software etc.? China is selling a lot of cheap EVs to the Global South which has a much larger growing population than Europe and the US. China will have the economies of scale. The Provincial government owning some of these EV manufacturers do not need to make a profit. Employment and keeping the local population from moving to greener pastures is critical.

[@dnpo]

It's funny that EU and US were the loudest in EV campaigning and yet late to the party... Now they are sour🤣if they extend ICE by 50 years maybe they'll catch up...

[@tooltalk]

It was mostly Europe actually. It was Europe's idea to start with emission standard, Euro-0, dragging the whole world into this over 20 years ago..

[@nordicstayvalencia8867]

@@tooltalk Which is a good thing, on long term. Obviously.

[@yifantian1942]

Us has more money, why not give more subsidy to its own carmakers. China's playbook is already there.

[@lunlunqq]

They did, multiple times more than what China did. Without government money, the US car industry would have been long gone.

[@ciybersal3499]

They did but they are more hungry for wars, invasions and genocide these days

[@MGZetta]

they give money more than China, american car makers just use the money for stocks for short term quick payment for investors because that's capitalism.

[@CollinsSakwa254]

And leave their precious wars unfunded? You can't be serious.😂

[@MGZetta]

They did and spent it on their stocks for short tern profit for their investors. Classic Capitalism. (I don't know why youtube keeps deleting this comment as if I'm exposing their crap.)

[@tc691kiing9]

Pouring fund into technology way better than pouring weapons into warfare.

[@chaunceytao6957]

In the China market, four top10 automobile brands are from China, four from German and four from Japan.

[@rjft7003]

This is a revamped Japan-US-Europe imported cars crisis in 70's and 80's. The solution will be for Chinese EV carmakers to open factories abroad, finishing the issue with tariffs once for all.

[@tooltalk]

That's no coincidence. China's economic model is based on Japan's in its heydays. Japan was however pounded by the US for their state led industrial polices, so too would China, but unlike Japan, China is a hostile nation.

[@tibsyy895]

Tariffs are for rookies! COMPETE!!!!!!

Very good analysis - thank you very much! There was an interesting post in Thailand (sorry no link) about a similar subject. The author asked which of the Chinese EV brands will survive in the Thai market. His conclusion was, that some of the brands seem not to have a good management which understands what Thai car buys want. Many brand still have only dealers in the area of Bangkok. This is a 250 km one way trip for me. BYD is very strong in the Thai market with already more than 30% market share and a lot of dealers. They are building a factory in Thailand for the left-hand traffic market. This year they will introduce 4 more EV models and also their PHEV technology. MG and GWM already have factories in Thailand. The MG4 and the Ora Good Cat are selling good but it is not enough. But both companies sell also ICE cars and will therefor survive. Changan Deepal is a strong newcomer. The S07 SUV sells good but they have to introduce more models and build up the dealer network. The author gives all the other brands (Geely, Neta, GAC etc.) little chance if they do not expand their dealer network.

[@oxvendivil442]

Subsidies are also used by other nations like the US and EU! like on agriculture making competitors that don't subsidize at a disadvantage but those are their economic policies so it is what it is! my country's farmers would want more subsidies from the government in order to compete with imported produce especially from Vietnam but the government doesn't really do subsidies so that would be it, nobody is complaining that Vietnam is subsidizing anything, it is their economic policy and it is their right to reap the benefits while our economic policies are for us to benefit or suffer from, blaming China is so childish.

[@joshcyz]

I don't hear they calling the Chinese toys overcapacity.

[@tooltalk]

were they subsidized? if yes, did China's subsidized toy business hurt Europe's toy business? If no, you have no case.

[@joshcyz]

​@@tooltalk China subsidized their industry, because they did not spend money on wars.

[@danielwong2333]

If you cant compete with them, join them. If usa think subsidies made the Chinese ev cheaper then just follow, the winning formula to move forward rather than barking like a toothless dogs.😂😂😂 poor joe

[@AuralioCabal]

It takes Tesla 11 hours to build their mod 3 and Y , VW needs 30 hours, this according to former VW Ceo Herber Diess..Chinese automakers have adopted Teslas Gigacasting manufacturing. GM s Mary Barra leads in promises but they are not fullfilled .

[@tooltalk]

LOL. Hbert Diess was a sh ll. He would say whatever the CCP told him to say.. he went as far as going to Xinjiang to build a factory there to give the CCP political cover for their human right abuses.

[@urbanstrencan]

This videos about automotive industry are just awesome, love learning how industry works, behind the scenes of the industry. Chinese EV automotive industry is really interesting and technology they provide is much better than from legacy automakers.

[@guringai]

Loving the EV price war. Cheaper EVs will make them more available.

[@yusufk4432]

There's only one word for USA and Europe "Cry baby"

[@ruiqianren9405]

As Chinese, im okay with the concept of tariffs, but not okay with calling tariffs "free trade" type bullshit

[@TheKkpop1]

5:15 von de Lauren is just another Trojans for Joe.

[@markistheone947]

China won, face it, open markets and allow ppl to replace the old combustion cars with electric, and maybe we can survive a few tens of years more. Also the main point to go electric is to centralize how electricity is produced and address the best ways in a global capacity. Trying to fix it at the micro level will always be impossible.

[@tooltalk]

China won by getting slapped left and right by the next two largest auto markets in the world! Yay!

[@TubersAndPotatoes]

Why don't the EU get together and massively subsidize their industries to counter this? Is the main cost driven by steel? North Africa has tons of solar energy and cheap labor potential for EU companies to set-up cheap steel industry for their vehicles. Could even become the Mexico of Europe.

[@tooltalk]

That's what the US did with the US IRA -- countering China's every trade violations with equal response of their own. Europe however can't take such an unilateral action because it's a union of many different states.

[@michaeldawn442]

Plain and Simple: Tariff were necessary because of the government subsidies from the China government. If Germany doesn't do something similar say goodbye to BMW and Mercedes-Benz....

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Source ? Proof ?. Tesla got 20 billion in subsidies . Where are tariffs on tesla ?

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Only the better product matters . It doesn't matter if mercedes or bmw exist or not

[@OptimumPrime-t5u]

EU DOESN'T HAVE RIGHT TO DO NOTHING. THEY ARRVGONNA KEEP TESLA BERLIN. FUNKING SATELES​@@jacksmith-mu3ee

[@captainseadog7600]

Pricing looks good cars look good …… til you are in accident … can’t unbuckle seat belt, cars is on fire every time,car door locks you in inferno car… cheaply made suspension sucks… how are these cars passing safety in west I’m surprised

[@DWREV]

A lot of Chinese EVs have passed crash safety ratings with 5 stars. EVs themselves have a completely different build compared to combustion engines, the lower center of gravity reduces roll overs and the batteries are heavily protected. Check IIHS and EuroNcap to see unbiased crash testing and the results.

[@DineshTwanabasu]

Can you do the calculation of subsidies per electric vehicle produced.

[@zacksmith5644]

Usa gave tesla 20 billion in subsidies plus carbon credits which tesla sold to other companies

[@williamwatitwa3534]

By the way how many American evs are making money?

[@nordicstayvalencia8867]

Try to think long-term.

[@okwatever3582]

You call that “Brutal?” To me it’s called “affordable.”

[@MrGanbat84]

When Europe export cars they say tariffs are not good. When China export cars they want tariffs 😅😅😅

[@romithom]

魌魅魍魉 终將煙茫 走步中原 心如明鏡

[@oxidalpha6350]

Its not because they can not compete with them. The hole german economy depends on the car brands. Without them germany is nothing. Why they should allow chinese brands to sell their cars in europe? China did not allow german brands to sell in china without producing them in china together with chinese companys. The shere were also 51% for the chinese company and 49% for the germen ones. My opinion is chinese brands should be allowed to sell cars in europe only if they produce their cars in germany like china made it with german brands. Not producing them in eat europe like hungary because no hungary car brand produced ever in china

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Debunked long ago If me buying a chinese product makes my country face unemployment then so be it Keep your politics out of my wallet Free market . I can buy chinese products. If my economy is so screwed up that me buying chinese products create issues then tell your ceos to loose their belts I ll buy more chinese products. To hell with your politics

[@tooltalk]

Europe's counter measure against China is NOT based on that blanket protectionism. China has banned foreign EV battery competitors, primarily from Japan and South Korea, in local EV market since 2016 to protect their inferior weaklings -- they still don't have access to their local market to this date. The fact that China's domination in EV supply-chain comes from their anticompetitive industry policies past 8 years should give you pause.

[@zacksmith5644]

​@@tooltalkprove it . Waiting

[@jozecvenkel3986]

interesting! In Communist Yugoslavia we had import tariffs on western cars. 100% on cars like Golf, progressively growing with more expensive vehicles. To protect Yugo and more so to protect Criminal dinosaur government. I am only 65 and I am entertained by the history spiraling.... Frankfurt school of Marxism at work.

[@navsofour2892]

Who would have though that the US and EU would give away this golden goose to China?

[@viva_la_topa_8886]

Lets go BYD!!!!

[@VuthyVa]

This report is about production cost, EU and US can have environmental tariffs for managing disposal of the EVs.

[@kenrie20022]

The whole world is using Boeing and Airbus including Microsoft.

[@abddessamedar7336]

I just want to understand why did you show the pla? Does the other news channels show the German army when they talk about Mercedes

[@DWREV]

Thanks for your feedback. You make an interesting point, and we'll try to keep it in mind for future videos!

[@SIRLEE]

Meanwhile, where is the WTO in this whole debate? They are interestingly very quiet now days!!! 😂😂

[@tooltalk]

Why? China never took the WTO seriously -- and nobody does at this point.

[@jayzhang7527]

EU also subsidizes their agricultural goods, should the world ban them also?

[@tooltalk]

if they exceed their quota, an appropriate CVD (countervailing duties) may be necessary.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

​@@tooltalk source

[@pengboshi]

I understand your fears.

[@chuckgoodwish3897]

Still spewing the overcapacity BS? Disgusting report

[@tooltalk]

angry, confused panda

[@zacksmith5644]

​@@tooltalk found the bot

[@arsenebogbe3641]

Thank you

[@viljamikoivunen6297]

Just like on any story regarding EV's, taxpayers are ones to pay bills. Can EV compete against traditional cars without massive subsidies, government mandates, benefits and tax reductions? I personally doubt that.

[@oxvendivil442]

Well you know how we traditionally dealt with closed markets, we opened it at gun point, so yes markets are closing but don't think desperate but strong countries will not do anything about it, European history during the age of colonization is a case in point.

[@tooltalk]

You mean like how China came BEGGING to join the world order created by the West (and to serve their own interest) after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the total collapse of China's economy decades earlier, promising to follow the rules set by the West and adhere to the Western liberal value, however imperfect, promoted within? I guess you could instead cry about the century of humiliation. It's quite odd that China as a mercantilist state is trying to re-live the 16th century.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Huawei is banned in the US but Apple operates in China, BYD is banned in the US but Tesla is in China, the US also bans China from buying chips that are in the US monopoly and many more​@@tooltalk

[@apollojzhao7186]

I sold my Benz G. and bought BYD YangWang U8. I really enjoyed it!

[@tooltalk]

Yeah, it's called patriotism consumption.

[@apollojzhao7186]

@@tooltalk I am an American 🇺🇸.

[@victorsvoice7978]

Western governments financially support their domestic industries, too. They use tax concessions and government grants. China has the right to impose tariffs on Western products. Protectionism hurts consumers by making products more expensive.

[@tooltalk]

Sure, domestic subsidies to domestries doing business mostly domestically? No problem.

[@detectiveofmoneypolitics]

Economic investigator Frank G Melbourne Australia is following this very exciting content cheers Frank 😊

[@satay8167]

Exactly like when Japan trying to make inroads to the west during 70s. Similar rhetoric in the name of free trade