NEW STARCRAFT 2 PATCH - FIRST FINALS!

[@Tokyo-go2du]

@WinterStarcraft - as a Swede and with an unmitigated apetite for top Starcraft casting of epic proportions I just want to let you know that your uploaded matches in my opinion are a noble thing "to do with your life" and a sacrifice of your life force that I am extremely thankful that you commit yourself to. Have fun bro!!!!!!!!!!

[@WayneVanRock]

Nice to know that gamers are capable of such articulate language despite all the fears and suggestions of onlinegames dumbing people down.

[@proactivex]

Now that guy knows how to give a compliment

[@i89wut]

Winter's commentary is top

[@jameslog3431]

beautifully put~

[@RollnR0ck]

Hope my Boss comes up with some of these words anyday. „Noble thing to sacrifice your time“

[@plixie1]

I was worried when Dark went, uh dark. But shin is stepping up.

[@jdKingg_]

and still no adrenal glands 😁

[@ShikiKhorinthian]

Always love it when the players chat in the game for what some may consider as mundane stuff like map versions. Really gives the game that I love watching daily a lot of heart.

[@adrenaline98]

I actually wish players were more ‘toxic’ towards each other. I hate the word toxic here, when it’s really just some competitive sh*t talking which happens in all of competitive sports. Adds another mental layer to the game too…is X intimidated? Is Y gonna back it up?

[@ShikiKhorinthian]

@adrenaline98 Idra days were fun too lmao

[@adrenaline98]

@@ShikiKhorinthian I root for players who have those guts. You are at the top of your sport, you *must* be passionate about it by definition.

[@guibettio578]

Zerg late-game meta: do not go to the late game at all!

[@chloesmith4065]

We've come full circle in the Meta back to sc1 before broodwar lol

[@Matt-ln7lb]

Shin seems allergic to making a spire before the skytoss army is completely established. That game 1 with almost +3 air vs corruptors with not even 1 upgrade was kind of painful. Shin had plenty of time to throw down that spire, make a few corruptors, and shut down the skytoss before it got out of hand while he still had control on the ground, and he just didn't. He had the fleet beacon in vision when it started a little after 9 minutes, and didn't even start a spire until ~12m30, 3.5 minutes later, then didn't even start corruptors until Maxpax was killing his bases... Then, again, in game 5, he again scouted the fleet beacon almost immediately, and instead of throwing down a spire, threw down a hydra den + Nydus and massed queens. It nearly worked, but that was extremely all in, since hydra/queen doesn't scale well vs the skytoss/chargelot/templar/archon army. It really reminds me of back when the carrier play really started to first establish, and Zerg would commit hard to hydra/bane and fairly consistently neglect spire tech/carapace upgrades until it was way too late if the Hydra/bane attacks didn't end the game. It's always been one of those things that set the very top Zerg players like Rogue/Serral/Dark apart from the rest - they more often set up the tech to handle the later game behind the aggression, and then were/are more often able to shut down/handle the skytoss before it became/becomes really problematic.

[@Invicta117]

What's even crazier is that SHIN also had the economy to do it to. He had a massive econ advantage that he KNEW about (cause of the constant ling runbys) I agree I just don't see why no spire until like 15min.

[@tobiaszurcher8066]

Toss will get brutally stomped if there is another big tournament when the real zergs come out of their caves.

[@zergu-yf3gd]

dont even need upgrades to deal with skytoss just a ridiculous ball of corruptors. it's stylistic i suppose. if i see a carrier rush i'm doing a hydra allin asap skipping their upgrades for numbers and deleting the interceptors. i'm never thinking about carapace on flyers, it's too slow.

[@zergu-yf3gd]

but yeah infinite statis traps is pretty brutal. they are under rated and very good.

[@tedkim7347]

Don’t you see what Shin says here - Zerg cannot beat late game Protoss death ball in the same skill level in this version of game. Period

[@TowerSavant]

The Broodlord 'bug' wasn't a bug. Other people that know more than me pointed that out early on during the PTR. It was designed, like the speed of a siege tank sieging, to have the broodling birth and wiggle into range before launching. If you can afford to get closer with the brood lords then you were rewarded with faster birth to launch rates. Now you can argue those kinds of Theatrics have no place in modern StarCraft 2, fine. Every pro seems to advocate for more and more reductions in the Weapon Point stat, or whatever it's called. Twitchier and twitchier gameplay seems to be in vogue and it has become something of an arms race. I'm not so sure it's a good thing, even as amazing as it is to see what Clem can do with the Vikings now.

[@MrHeorhe]

*the crowd stands gathered with baited breath, murmurs from amongst them* "How do you pronounce it?" "I don't understand what that means..." *the prophet walks out into the clearing and a hush falls over the crowd* "Good luck getting me to say that for more than today. It's hydra-lurch... unfortunately... I have spoken." "Hydralurch" "hydralurch" *murmurs come from the crowd, heads nod in approval, but also carry slight disappointment in their eyes.* *The prophet sighs, and resumes his prayers to The Intern for a larger map pool, terran lategame nerfs, and a hero that will save the poor protoss and win a live event*

[@Imwritingthisnotefrombeyondthe]

bated breath*

[@lobitoloco]

I really hope that Jimmy can count past 10.000. A day without Winter casting a game is a sad day.

[@LucianDevine]

I'm surprised he can count past 1K. So anything after this is just a bonus on borrowed time!

[@Merkaba85]

Note to self, keep 12 pool + dronepull, don't let protoss get any eco, tech or units, ever.

[@scarletspidernz]

Zerg & Terrans: Just don't let Protoss Exist

[@adrenaline98]

The Broodlord bug unfix is the quintessential representation of Blizzards failures this past decade in gaming. Leaving a bug not fixed, rather than fixing the *bug* and then adjust the non-bugged attack speed of a non-bugged unit, makes no sense whatsoever. This is just an ass backwards choice.

[@EdwardHowton]

Shin reminds me a bit of Spanishiwa in this one, very hit or miss strategy, but refreshing to watch. I've always hated Cookie-Cutter Syndrome, where everyone waits for some nerd to mathematically break down what's Optimal and then everybody follows the template perfectly. I enjoy watching someone who bucks the trends, plays and adapts reactively to changing conditions. Even if it doesn't work out!

[@TheDarkwill777]

Exactly this! It's way more entertaining, and I would imagine way more exhilarating for the players than just running through the motions... Seeing Clem MMM or MaxPax BlinkStalker all the time (which to their credit I do see them changing things up a bit recently) Is stale as heck. Also that drone rush round 2 went super hard! I could hear the Heart of the Swarm theme in my head as it happened. Felt like something out of a Carbot episode!

[@Patton1944]

+3 air attack finishing *just* before the final fight of the first game seemed like a big deal. Also, I think the energy recharge animation might be reused from the unity barrier that Karax has in coop.

[@allhailderpfestor4839]

The animation is reused many times First time you see it is WoL campaign in first Zeratul mission

[@umrete]

I see SHIN is channeling his inner Elazer, who needs upgrades anyway.

[@Leonhart_93]

Now it just feels like it's MaxPax attempting to take everyone on, as far as protoss players go.

[@Papada00]

18:31 wow... from 153 army supply to 30 in a few seconds. 😂

[@chloesmith4065]

yeah really need to get to hive tech to deal with an army like that, viper especially.

[@PJOZeus]

Appreciate you're actually speaking your mind and not sitting on your hands While yes in theory it's an okay thing to do (letting it play out), that argument is raised by people who benefit from ununified response - such as those who want to talk it apart or belittle a particular race or- look it's applicable anywhere

[@cilice13]

@54:17 Shin advanced the queens before dropping creep tumors, and that was the game. He lost queens (and a bunch of transfusions) having to slow-walk them back to the nydus, and only THEN could his push actually start, a minute too late, as he dropped creep.

[@furse2190]

"..because that would require you to play. Got 'em" 🤣🤣🤣

[@ExecutorElassus]

Important mechanics question: in team play, could you use energy recharge on Overseers? Because I could imagine that becoming _extremely_ toxic, as Protoss players constantly recharge Overseers to contaminate the opposing side's upgrades. Of course, not being to build on friendly creep kinda moots the whole discussion, since nobody wants creep blocking all their buildings, but it'd be a really interesting mechanic.

[@MeowMeowRanger]

Thank you winter. Seeing u everyday make me feel safe.

[@michaelleiseca9762]

After all these games, I love that Winter can still say "is this glaves?" with enthusiasm

[@mooogu5386]

36:23 Appreciating the classics, RT gone but not forgotten.

[@SVKFrankenstein]

Great casting like always Winter, but PvZ is looking even more one sided (in late game) than before. So next year, PvZ is going to be Zerg win under 10 minutes or Toss win... Great patch...

[@psychotropnilachtan8869]

Yea but they also nerfed zerg early game ^^

[@bongkem2723]

nah, Serral will destroy Toss in late game as always

[@Iwmar]

Literally everyone, including casual viewers like me, predicted this and here we are. Balance council is a joke.

[@psychotropnilachtan8869]

@@bongkem2723 Guess i just gonna play like Serral. Why havent i though of that before ? Silly me :D

[@chloesmith4065]

​@@IwmarIt really makes no sense. PvZ in my opinion was already slightly in the favor of Protoss in the end game, with Zerg having the edge in the early game. Now with the mothership changes and energy overcharge, it feels like the Protoss lategame was buffed. Ironically, with the lack of battery overcharge, the disruptor nerf, the immortal nerf, it feels like Protoss is even more vulnerable in the early game. Energy overcharge might be better in the mid and late game but before high Templar are out with storm, speedling and roach timings seem even stronger. And the spore colony buffs make harassment even harder with oracles. Yes I know queens cost 25 more minerals but hatcheries cost 25 less minerals... So if you're making 7 queens you are still gonna make the queens it just takes another 100 minerals over 5 minutes or whatever. Of course PvT, the matchup that's in a worse position, got even more Terran favored. Yes the ghost costs 3 supply and that's a big deal in ZvT but in PvT Terran doesn't need a lot of ghosts to emp the whole army. So. There's that. Lol

[@m4djoker890]

"And Shin just taps out!" , says Winter all surprised! That guy went from 120 army to 20 in less than 10 seconds, what did you expect xD

[@amourzombie]

Winter is outright awesome, his witty humour is killing it

[@AlaskanHuzky]

Second overlord made MVP with the contaminates.

[@miza6]

i think it’s insane that the two of the largest viewerships of the game, winter and lowko have no input, or even a heads up as to what’s happening. they both commented they were surprised by the map pool. maybe give the people who are brining the game to the masses a little say. they know what the people want.

[@GotEmAll1337]

*SC2 community:* Zerg has no AA *SC2 balance council:* You are seen, you are heard. *Proceeds to nerf Zerg AA*

[@psychotropnilachtan8869]

And nerf Zerg early game in the process. Make sure Toss doesnt accidentaly die before building that death ball.

[@fablesenpai8609]

Dont worrie. Zerg got AA buff. Spores remeber. Make em sporest boys

[@psychotropnilachtan8869]

@@fablesenpai8609 Yea cant wait to make 15 spores and leave my mineral line completely empty :D Great strats

[@chloesmith4065]

Spore colony got buffed. 25 minerals cost isn't really a nerf considering hatchery cost was reduced. Queens are still insanely good, they'd have to be 200-250 minerals for someone to consider not building them.

[@psychotropnilachtan8869]

​@@chloesmith4065 You need queens for injects and creep. Its core of zerg gameplay you would have to build it even if it costed 500. And you need a lot, saving 25 minerals on hatchery definitely doesnt balance that :D 175 feels absolutely awful not only early when every mineral counts but even later in the game. If you lose queens and need to remake 5 at a time its 250 extra. Its huge nerf

[@rumar4u]

Yes Yes - I wanted to see this match against SHIN - I see MaxPax = Like

[@wolvie90]

Feels like we're seeing Protoss players use Stasis Fields more offensively lately, it looks really powerful if you're clever with placement.

[@michaelminugh5357]

54:15 Why not place a creep tumor or two? The difference in mobility for queens on/off-creep, hell even Hydras, is so much more worth it than 1 transfuse. Especially against carriers, on-creep you can lure out a wave & back off, kill a few interceptors, negating the damage that would cause the need for a transfuse? It really boggles my mind.

[@DeanofDeeps]

I drop a like instantly , I would be extremely surprised if the video didn’t make my day just a little bit better

[@phil-l]

Winter is the king of THUMBNAILS, they get more outrageous one after another

[@cyan1166]

Omg, the quiet "Got him.."'s had me rolling

[@RoastingPotPieMonkey]

not sure if i like the new the mothership in this match up, zerg already lacks anti air and this forces out corruptors that can be blown up by archon splash. Seems a little busted.

[@chloesmith4065]

Yeah. If Protoss needed help in PvZ it certainly wasn't in the lategame.

[@elerushielerushi9180]

Maybe having the ABDUCT ability affect the Mothership again but make it pull it like 1/3rd of the original length (3/3) of pull. I still prefer the 5.0.11 Mothership the current 4 targets are cool except when those are heavy armored units. 5.0.11 Mothership can still do a lot of support just needs some Patch 5.0.12 adjustment to it. VS. Terran current Mothership won't do much especially with tons of scans, Mothership's 20 seconds cloak is almost irrelevant.

[@zarombiste9158]

I know it easy to say but I think maxpax have to change the way he is microing archons. They go with whole army back and forth and are doing no damage and are taking big damage. He control his range army good but archons need to be much closer to do damage. Better to send them to do some damage then loosing them in same amount of time by going back and forth with whole army

[@EdwardHowton]

I think they still work as a deterrent, and that might be the point. If the enemy gets too close those archons pack a punch (at least, they did in the campaign, I'm woefully out of date on multiplayer patches and changes), so keeping a distance limits how much of the enemy is engaging at any given time. Charge in and you get smacked for your trouble. Plus for all their shields archons seem to melt pretty fast, so having them a bit behind seems to make them more effective somehow?

[@grimlips6596]

somewhere in there there was a specific fight against ling roach ravager where he could have (i believe) taken the fight by microing the archons onto the lings and the stalkers onto the ravagers, but instead he just retreated, losing units on the way. doesn't sound all that hard for the best protoss microer in the world. maybe he even had some immortals, i don't recall. but well, if it works, it works, right?

[@33shin33]

Shout out for the map designers, what an AMAZING job this map pool is incredible!

[@igordomrev7301]

Winter, thank you for the gr8 work. your casts are the best. Much better then LOWKO :) .

[@Appletank8]

King's Cove made me realize it's been a while since we've had a map with the starting bases on dirt cliffs.

[@JackDeHearts]

28:29 The arbiter walks over the corner of the object at the top of the ramp...

[@meman24]

game stasis use was so on point! using it so u can fall back like that, beautiful

[@OnigoroshiZero]

Late game for Zerg is impossible now vs both Terran and Protoss. And Protoss is impossible vs Terran. In all cases we talk about similar skill level of course, so when you watch the top Zerg players destroy Terrans and Protoss, you will know how vast the skill difference is. Same when MaxPax destroys any Terran. But Terrans will still cry about balance because they have still not gotten their auto-win upgrade...

[@Sovieski13]

Thank you, Winter, for these amazing casts and your outstanding commentary! Also, shoutout to Brenda and Susan - 'Get off my creeeeeep!'"

[@keep_walking_on_grass]

I don't get what Blizzard wants to achieve with the change of hatchery and queens costs. They wanted to nerf Zergs early but didn't know how to do it.Spores deal more damage on the other hand. I don't get the whole thing.

[@andrewbailey7045]

Terrans bitching about queens for years on end did it. They want to be able to win the game with 2 reapers and the balance council obliges them every time.

[@TritonTv69420]

One of the neon maps made me trip out i was like what? I knew one was from like 5 years ago. I didn't even know the patch went live and tried to do shield recharge haha. That was insane.

[@tabula_rosa]

i dont want to mince words, if i had any oversight over the balance council, "we didnt fix a bug that makes an artillery unit's attack inconsistent at max range on purpose and just buffed its attack speed instead", that would be the end of the balance council.

[@artemirrlazaris7406]

New zerg unit, the creep spewer, a unit that emanates microbial shroud, and where it walks it produces creep, and it cna expel energy that creates temporary creep, before it dissipates. it can only attack air and has 2 range. moves as fast as a zergling, without speed. I think. lol

[@Volsati]

Love Neon Violet Square(? May have misheard), reminds me of hitting the ladder after learning cannon rush and hit diamond. I'm normally a bronze league hero who at best hits gold cause people don't understand how to deal with carrier rush or mass void ray in my experience below plat.

[@ericmartin2740]

What a throw out of Shin in game 5, wowza.

[@OnigoroshiZero]

Throw? Did you see the end of game 1? Zerg can't win vs SkyToss at this point, so they have to do everything they can to win before that point. Shin was just testing to find what things work to do just that.

[@Twiixq]

@@OnigoroshiZero Shin threw game 5 anyway, walked out of creep, no creep tumor, no detection, he just killed himself. I'm not saying it was a free win if he did it perfectly, but atleast it could have been better.

[@astrofun4221]

dam right Winter he did got very agressief and was very angry to i think that first map Shin was way ahead but somehow couldnt end Maxpax.

[@hexaquras9374]

glad they added the old maps, I wasn't playing at the time when these maps were available

[@TheDuckofLaw]

Thanks for the SC2 casts!

[@blooddumpster3427]

The Hydra upgrade stuff caught me off guard and I laughed real hard

[@33shin33]

23:59 Epic moment where random player realizes Warp Prism can power up gateways but it still useless because lings are too powerful HAHAHaha

[@00110000]

Man, it's so crazy to see how good MaxPax has become

[@PonchoExperience]

Well, the new protoss meta seems to be tech rush to full golden armada skipping t1 units, and its effective! Lets see how they nerf this one next month.

[@PJOZeus]

Sorry wait backup, Ultras back to their big size? Lurkers with less hp? Has there been another addendum to the patch that hasn't been covered on the channel yet??

[@AntoineDubruque]

Ravager are perfect to destroy carriers, because they are slow enough AND they are consistent enough to resist storm.

[@AlejandroMPozo]

You look better now, winter. Im glad. You looked sick last videos

[@Mocco104]

Damnnnnn starcraft KZbinr still uploading

[@ryanj610]

SHIN/Rogue/Dark the most dynamic players in the game.

[@eddrubin3837]

STASIS MOM, HAS GOT IT GOING ON. Oh sorry ward*, not mom 😂

[@codys6409]

Max managed that final battle so well!

[@zarombiste9158]

After watching ur casts few days I have in my head almost every change in this patch, for sure!😂

[@socstud0]

The death ball is back with no mothership abduct!

[@CollaborationNation]

Is it me, or do the graphics look grainy and a little worse on the new patch?

[@ShikiKhorinthian]

42:12 D: right where it hurts

[@laefb]

lmao i caught a stray. jeez winter the last time i played kings cove was a new map

[@Dennmoon1214]

Love how your view count went up with starcraft2 being free on game pass! LFG

[@ryanaegis3544]

I love the old maps. I think they should be in a separate tournament though. Have one tournament with only new maps, and have another tournament with all maps, loser chooses the playing field.

[@mylucyrk]

So did you go Lurcher Hydra or Hydra Lurker?

[@LidiaLeeSun]

your Life is great and with Starcraft you make it great for all of us :D

[@hrothgarvonmt]

That was a proper toss deathball in round 1 lol

[@GotEmAll1337]

Shin absolutely threw that first game.... why would you just sit at Max supply for like 10 minutes letting him build up the Golden Armada? absolutely foolish

[@tradeinheritance2559]

It's known that Shin lacks Killer Instinct that Dark Reynor Serral has

[@43tread]

Shin might have felt the same way..

[@bongkem2723]

Battery overcharve is a must for Toss, Terran can repair, Zerg can transfuse, Toss has nothing but overcharge and they remove it !!!!

[@FLKS3]

terran can repair,but in the base(worker), zerg can transfuse but on the creep, and protoss still had the battery.

[@karlbergman5678]

All of your examples are very different in practice, and regardless, it's not like the battery has been removed, it's still a valuable tool in the Protoss arsenal.

[@haptalktv9322]

7:59 mins on derbis wall

[@caleroification]

Winter is the best caster. One love, Winter!

[@quintyss1290]

The Council are like Barracuda: They like a salty environment :D.

[@volkerpetersen2671]

Seems besides some cheese zerg doesn't cut it? What happened in game 3... perfect Scout, but no counter besides 3 additional queens?

[@samuraichamplugen]

23:00 What the Shin LOL

[@therealfakecaptain7978]

MaxPax is doing a lot of early skytoss transition against Shin lately and it's not going so great, he's always losing his 4th.

[@Deathgaming112]

And idk what i would do if you didnt stream another video!

[@Mainlychesscontent]

Is Easter Sunday on a Thursday this year?

[@TheBeeFlex]

you had me at "OK Beamer" ...

[@pamsp]

the recharge animation is larger and slower, so it shows more

[@alanduffy4602]

How about a "burst of banelings" for the collective noun?

[@chengcao418]

last time i was on kings cove i was still silver, now i don't even play ranked anymore

[@bobby4tw]

Starcraft 2 best hindsight caster ❤

[@stephenbeeson7622]

Game #2 was great! A real response to game #1 💥

[@kraun124]

Please make it so queens can throw banelings!

[@aglargalad]

An effing drone rush?! OMGWTF!

[@Deathgaming112]

I love watching your videos!

[@ericsuchowesky]

About 6.9 minutes for the Zerg eggs to bust.

[@christianklein2163]

2.3 minutes into the game, zerg eggs should disapear in like 6.9 minutes 😂😂😂 you are so funny bro

[@Xiaobla]

Winter is coming

[@trollerox7276]

27:20 As a Terran player with tiktok brainrot i feel very ofended by this part of the video.

[@jongreenepwns]

Protoss death ball is so dumb. As the game gets later, protoss max supply should decrease lol.

[@trobertw]

We just need 3 broodlings to jump out of an ultra carcass and the game is balanced

[@davidstud3952]

Why is mass-contaminate not a thing? Rogue?

[@Mindwave416]

lets see those speedy boys hydra!

[@nytmaire74]

21:48 no one cares about lurkers anymore on skytoss comp coz ppl just realized 4-6 carriers are enough and massing immortal archon templar whcih conveniently counters ultra ling bane corruptor lurker the zerg cant mass enough corruptors or lurkers at the same time has anyone been suicidal enough to mass hydra with the shroud buff after they scout the 2nd stargate? we back at the classic "you shouldnt have let them get to carriers" BS