WinWing Hotas First Impressions: Super Libra, Super Taurus and F/a-18c [Discontinued]

[@RedKiteRender]

*UPDATE* I had the WinWing Hotas originally delivered as what was to be the public final version, Sadly it's not up to par, and to WinWing's credit they have been working hard to resolve all their issues. Unfortunately this puts reviewers in a difficult position. As such I will not be doing a full review on the pre-release hardware. Sadly this has meant a lot of work and time has been lost, having to act as a hardware tester rather than reviewer. I wish to bring you the most accurate and honest review possible, which cannot be done given the substantial change to the hardware from mine to the final version. With the now dubbed development hardware I have, there have been a number of faults that resulted in me shelving the units and WinWing decided to delay the public release of the hardware as a result of reviewer feedback. Unfortunately a significant number of issues were found, not least a few of the switches breaking, mechanisms not functioning properly and defects with the design which will lead to excessive wear. The good news is WinWing are committed to creating a great product and have been very good in communication with me, and to the best of my knowledge these faults were resolved for the release version of the hardware. Just like any other company they're going through teething problems getting off the ground. I have high hopes for the WinWing team, Let's hope they can deliver going forwards.

[@Hotaru-jp]

I am loving your videos! i came for the f16 tutorial videos and i am glad i found a good channel that doesn`t take 30minutes explaining what i already know, just small details that i missed and your videos goes straight to the point! ♥

[@MrMills425]

Theres a flap button on the HOTAS Throttle Warthog.. Please know that

[@ascherlafayette8572]

When can we expect a full release version?

[@MrSilverdagger]

After 10 months what do you think about the hotas now . Im looking to buy one you see. Its a tossup between this and a virpil setup

[@oldmanfunky4909]

It is from China...that says all I need to know.

[@MattesSPunkt]

I'm glad you got a review set too. You 've put a lot of work into the tutorials. Thumbs up. You earned that.

[@RedKiteRender]

Thanks! I'm hoping the idea of full travel throttles becomes popular after trying this one out, makes quite the difference.

[@delayed_control]

7:10 As of writing this the antenna elevation in DCS F-16 is actually incremental just like the Hornet (in fact it's probably the Hornet code). While this will probably be fixed in future, I imagine they will keep both incremental and absolute input options (hopefully for both F-16 and the F-18, I have a HOTAS with absolute axis for example which is a problem with the Hornet) so it should not be a problem in future (and it certainly is not right now).

[@manizaeim]

I watched jabbers video, so that was a reason we didnt get any viper/horent/tomcat tutorials! I have to admit by watching ur toturials, the level of my expectations increased alot. Thanks for the review. Great works as always.

[@toadster1969]

"some assembly is required" - I'd say so! Thanks for the video sir.

[@AdmiralQuality]

Great review and gameplay! You are without a doubt my favorite new DCS channel!

[@Isimus]

Great video! It was also nice to see you in action, explaining what you are actually doing, things like let’s see if we can pick up ourselves this SA contact. So I encourage you to more videos of the kind with strategy talk on! Thanks for your great jobs!

[@RedKiteRender]

Thanks Isimusrc, got quite a bit of positive feedback about that, I'l be considering doing more in the future :)

[@commercio3564]

Yeah, this is the best initial review I've seen so far. And the gameplay was just the cherry on top!

[@KayoMichiels]

This ain't no cheap ass 'made in china' knock off.... these are passionate guys who make astonishing products!

[@AkiicToDaHead]

Some great gameplay- very exciting redkite!!

[@RedKiteRender]

Hey good to hear from you again Akiic! Cheers, I hope you're well :)

[@AkiicToDaHead]

@@RedKiteRender Yeah- not bad- just working 50 hour weeks- so have not had much time off. Hope all is well with you!

[@RedKiteRender]

Getting by, Channel has taken quite a bit out of me lately with the F-16 release and this :)

[@GazAce]

Incredible hardware but I can hear Wives yelling already “it’s either ME or WinWing!” Husband: “Rifle”

[@RedKiteRender]

Haha

[@norwegianwiking]

ctrl+e x 3

[@bjrnchrstn]

Woman, can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em

[@snowshoe3274]

As always a superb video. Great action with those SAMs too!

[@Simon_D01]

I feel like it's too expensive for what it actually is....

[@baconatoromg6062]

@@Stuff-is-cool definitely

[@jokermaness]

Yeah the joystick price is not outrageous but the only thing I would Want is the throttle and that thing is expensive(I'm also a bit iffy to big box underneath

[@GrmlZGaming]

I really think i am getting this. 5:44 i think this is so you can bind it to the lever in the sim (if availible) so it moves in the sim when you use it.

[@RedKiteRender]

Just checked the controls, indeed you can bind that, might be good for vr user immersion i guess! Hadn't even considered they' give you binds for things like that (or the air vents for that matter!)

[@vnyggi621]

@@RedKiteRender wait the air vents have binds??

[@RedKiteRender]

Yep, you can bind the louvers to axis for the air conditioning!

[@vnyggi621]

@@RedKiteRender thats just madness

[@2110FSX]

Well that was fun, really enjoyable. Thank you.

[@ward25038124]

really hope they sell the throttle separately as I don't want the stick/base as I've already got the TM FA18 stick.

[@Elgonidas]

Same. I'd like to get the Virpil base for my TM Hog/Viper grip and a future F/A-18 grip. This throttle would be a perfect match.

[@RedKiteRender]

They're planning on selling all the parts separately after the launch event and pre-orders

[@ward25038124]

@@RedKiteRender Cheers, hopefully the price won't be hiked up so I might as well have bought it all at today's rates!

[@HernanMoragaMmHs]

damn that was some stressful flying. great video!

[@General.Falcon]

What will a total price be, for: Stick, Hotas, Peddals, mounting, cable and all accessoires to run a Jet/plane/Heli simulator 100%? Through the WinWing website, there is no info at all... I want buying info, see prices "before sending emails" to Winwing like the way Virpil do's, please ;-)

[@CesarZumarraga]

It will probably set you back about 1200$

[@Smokeyr67]

๖ۣۜ Lt.Gen.Falcon༻ I agree, why should I waste my time and theirs asking silly questions when they could spend 10 minutes updating their site to answer everything a prospective customer wants to know?

[@jacobyao3790]

I love the last part asmr lol

[@notproplayer3649]

Damn this is expesive but it also looks like the best HOTAS I can get for air combat and especially for the f/a-18, is it worth 300 more than the thrustmaster warthog though ?

[@RedKiteRender]

I think for people looking to build sim pits or those without the skills to do so, this is a great shortcut. It's expensive but looks like it'l last a long time.

[@Eli-uv4jy]

notproplayer 3 have a look at VKB and Virpil

[@TheSd1cko]

@@Eli-uv4jy I second Virpil! I replaced my warthog base with a warbrd and it is absolutely fantastic. Wouldn't change it for anything now, and I've since added the Thrustmaster F18 grip to it. As for the throttle, other than the slew control on the warthog throttle I've had no problems and is fantastic. Just as shame about the warthog base which is garbage.

[@RedKiteRender]

My Main setup is the Warthog Throttle (deltasim mod) with Virpil WarBRD and Warthog handle. Highly recommend the WarBRD, nice and precise, smooth movement once you've setup the cams/springs to your taste, not great dampening however. I think the WinWing gear is great too, especially the throttle base. The stick base doesn't seem as groundbreaking, but I've not had time to tinker with it just yet.

[@notproplayer3649]

@@TheSd1cko Yeess, that's exactly what I was thinking, the thrustmaster wharthog looks as it is great for everything except the base that is pretty much the same on my thrustmaster t.1600m joystick I can get for 4 times cheaper (though non detachable of course). But indeed the combo you mentioned with that virpil base look hella awesome. I am considering buying it for when my current t.1600m HOTAS is going to fail (if nothing new comes up on the market).

[@SDsc0rch]

only a minute in but pausing it to say.... "well done" my "first impression" is that this is a quality "first impressions" video

[@fortinero3361]

mate, stunning review, now I understand why Coffee got so hyped and ordered it hahaha

[@pogo1140]

Personally I would build a box/table for the throttle to drop into. that way it's not swaying.

[@steffennilsen2132]

That throttle looks amazing

[@paulrubens3048]

WOW this is one impressive kit.

[@ldandco]

Having her Hotas is a Winwing situation

[@dewey7085]

Stop

[@wiwa23]

Haha!

[@ctbram0627]

The solution to mount blocks is a 2x4 painted black spanning both hold fasts.

[@errol6788]

Still an informative review....many thanks.

[@Rhinozherous]

Update: In the meantime the prices are much higher (because the parts are more expensive now) and most things in the store are "out of stock, restock unknown"

[@keirfarnum6811]

That was an exciting mission!

[@capthaltli]

I couldn't tell in the video, does DCS recognize when you go from Cut Off to Idle with the throttle for startup?

[@RedKiteRender]

It only sends an input when you go idle to cut off, you can program a key press for cut off to idle with the software.

[@preamp51]

It should be possible to get it to work, since it does so with the TM Warthog. It is technically the same.

[@realgas71]

Hey dude could I ask what kinda head tracking system you used in this video TAT? It looks great!

[@cristiangonzalez761]

Redkite! Thanks for this detail review. Can you record the final part of the case 1 recovery ? its will be fine seen the throttle and stick corrections on the groove! Thank for your contribution to the community! Its very helpfull. Regards

[@RedKiteRender]

It was a case III, i bolted the first try, landed second. I didn't include it in the end because KZbin ate the dark footage and made it look terrible. I was also running out of things to say over it, didn't want to pad out the review to include the landing scene.

[@cristiangonzalez761]

@@RedKiteRender alright! Thanks bro!

[@Wikkus]

Excellent, as always, Doubt very much that I'll be in the market for one purely due to the price, but one can dream :)

[@RedKiteRender]

I think the throttle and flight ops panel will be quite a popular option when they open up selling the individual parts. But it is quite the expense for the whole lot!

[@delayed_control]

They probably went with both so you can map it to friction axis in game and have visual representation in 3D (VR for instance)

[@calvinmulraine736]

Have you made a full review yet? or do you still intend to? I have this HOTAS in my 'bag' on the WinWing site and would like to see your final verdict. Cheers

[@ecevansevans2566]

I am a beginner in DCS. Can u make HOTAS profile video , using warthog joysticks or Virgil throttle . For f18, f16 or tomcat f14. I need to know, what are the important key to bind on stick and throttle. Good video, can we see your profile or be shown where to go.

[@RedKiteRender]

There is no global guide to all aircraft, each one will need different keybinds. It's a topic i'd like to cover sometime in the future though! The advise i'd give is, if it's on the hotas you probably need it. Go to the manual, locate the joystick/throttle control inputs section and bind them in a similar fashion on your own.

[@amandafisher4233]

Great Review! I love my winwing. What was the custom computer voice radio chatter? Was that part of the mission or is it an addon?

[@RedKiteRender]

Part of the mission

[@robinstanfield1699]

did you have to buy the twist or did it come with the combo

[@beater8687]

Will it be possible to buy the throttle stand-alone at some point? I love the look of that whole assembly but don't see any real reason to change out sticks so it seems a bit wasteful.

[@RedKiteRender]

Yes, they plan on selling them as separate products later. It's just the launch event where they're selling it bundled only.

[@bazej1080]

@@RedKiteRender Oh yeah! I have already expensive joystick but the throttle alone will be must have.

[@Fahreun]

Whats the mod you're using with the radio voice behind ?

[@RedKiteRender]

Built into the mission i was flying.

[@vnyggi621]

I'd love to see more gameplay from you, possibly flying campains? :D

[@RedKiteRender]

Thanks! i'l consider it for future :)

[@olddogg60]

Great review. Thank you. 👍

[@arzhangsadeghi]

Hi Quick question, where can I buy thrust master warthog base and F-18 grip together ? everywhere that I searched the base is only being sold with the A-10 grip together, and then you have to buy the F-18 grip on top of it , the reason I ask is I have virtual reality google, I don't need side panels like the one that you just showed, I just need the grip, Thanks

[@kimbongun5369]

You can buy virpil WarBRD base which is compatible with thrustmaster grips

[@arzhangsadeghi]

@@kimbongun5369 Thank you so much for your reply, I really appreciate it, You saved me from lots of confusion.

[@MrScott_e]

Redkite, I watched your video of the WinWing. Are you still using it as your preferred HOTAS? I'm considering a new HOTAS and like the added features of the WinWing but is it really worth the price? I could easily see a Warthog setup about the same once you purchase mounting hardware, F/A-18 Stick. Did you ever do the second Full Review mentioned? I'm new to DCS and really enjoy your work. Great job and Thank you.

[@132nd.professor3]

What mod do you use for the AI coms?

[@RedKiteRender]

It's part of the mission, Strike fighter in instant action.

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I think the Warthog HOTAS with the replaced Hornet grip makes more sense.

[@deadshot4245]

plastic compression fittings vs metal internals. id say a virpil base and a warthog f-16 or 18 stick would be the top of the top

[@bryanschroeder6379]

Awesome Video RedKite, great review, to bad that button doesn't hold up?

[@RedKiteRender]

It's been okay since, it's just during testing i pulled on it too hard. I've attributed that to trying to push to find some feedback / tactile switch, which it very defiantly lacks feedback from. WinWing are looking to improve on this, but the button functions okay, just has no click and is unsatisfying to use. I'l be doing a revisit to review them in a month or so when I've had more time to see how it stands up to use.

[@Gunfreak19]

So you need an extra bit to control the rudders with the joystick.

[@cameraman502]

What do you use for zoom?

[@NumptyBrainStorm]

nice HAF case, I still have my HAF 932 from 2009 xD

[@RedKiteRender]

Still rocking it to this day! That said, next PC i'll be replacing it, as the lack of USB 3 on the front is starting to hurt. Wonderful case otherwise, 3 pc's have lived in it.

[@jhayeah]

Do you have eye tracker or how dü you look around?

[@RedKiteRender]

I use Trackir 5 or sometimes the Valve index VR headset.

[@jhayeah]

@@RedKiteRender yea yea

[@npatrcevic]

Does this (the throttle base especially) make any sense in VR? I have a feeling I'd be permanently searching for RL knobs in VR.

[@3rdDog173]

Liked the review, the link to the winwing site is 404ed..

[@RedKiteRender]

Thanks for notifying me, the address has changed since the video was made. I've updated it now.

[@3rdDog173]

@@RedKiteRender thank you..

[@Antonio-Morisco]

Hi, how have you solved the issue about detent from OFF to IDLE position during startup procedure? I understood that there is no input but in the warthog there is!

[@TTocsxic]

Excellent review, very nice video as always RedKite What mission was this actually btw? Was this a Download or in-game?

[@RedKiteRender]

Was the Strike fighter instant action mission for the hornet

[@franciscoignaciodasilva1720]

The Stick has force feedback?

[@RedKiteRender]

Unfortunately no, it is not a force feedback stick.

[@slyderace]

is the panel board usable w/o buying the throttle box? I already have the TWCS throttle from thurstmaster and I'm quite happy with it. I'd just love to have the panel for all the switches.

[@giuseppeloggia6412]

Hi. I was buying fa 18 stick. But Thrustmaster told me that they don't sell base and I must use the warthog one. But I don't want to buy the full set if I'll never use A10 Stick. So, is there a product that may be used as a base, not coming from Thrustmaster, to use with fa 18 stick?

[@RedKiteRender]

I'd recommend looking up the Virpil WarBRD, it is often out of stock sadly, but is what i use in my main setup.

[@giuseppeloggia6412]

@@RedKiteRender thanks a lot my friend. Installation is right the same As thrustmaster? It's a valid product? I ask you because It's clear that you're a master...

[@RedKiteRender]

@@giuseppeloggia6412 Yeah, 100% compatible with the Thrustmaster handles, just align the pins, plug in, tighten the ring screw and you're good to go, same as the warthog joystick base. The WarBRD base is also loads better than the warthog base and you can tinker with the feel by opening it, changing the springs and cams. Issue is they only stock them in rounds, so you'l need to lookup their next restock date and be ready for it.

[@giuseppeloggia6412]

@@RedKiteRender great. I'm gonna buy It.😊.

[@giuseppeloggia6412]

@@RedKiteRender know what? I found it in stock. Maybe I've ben lucky.😊

[@ReplyNI]

The stick and base itself is on 45%off at the moment. Has it had any improvements made on it from when you last used it? Trying to decide between this and thrustmaster A-10

[@neurogenesis6741]

Is it done by a VR or trackir?

[@RedKiteRender]

Trackir5

[@ianboys1000]

How do you feel about the kit 9 months on? Are you using it as your primary eqpt? How has it stood up? Or have you gone back to other kit? Thanks

[@wolixe]

Can you use the recce switch for zoom or is it an axis like the slew?

[@RedKiteRender]

It's a 5 way button hat, so you could use it to 'zoom in slow' but i'm not sure i'd want to given the spongy feeling.

[@johne.alarcon25]

Great review, thanks. Overall, it is the WinWing (i.e. Chinese) replica of the Thrustmaster version, so what could we expect....

[@pyroarchy]

if you grab the block whilst you tighten the bolt it might work better :-p

[@RedKiteRender]

I'm holding the base up with the other hand

[@thebgpikester]

I'd prefer an option without all the desk mounts and extension, already have monstertech stuff which is quick release. That would cut down on price and weight.

[@squalxy1315]

For some reason i cant access the website

[@martinzabel2162]

While i tend to research things allot i wish you would review more then just FS related items. There are various reasons i love your presentations. First of all you dont try to lower your voice two octaves while speaking. You got a super soothing yet understanding voice. You admit your own mistakes and separate your opinion from the facts. My piggy bank is getting deliciously fat and is about to pop for some Winwing gear, and you landed that sale for them. Cheers man. Greedings from the Alps.

[@unknownsidewinder9945]

Do you use vr?

[@RedKiteRender]

Yes, i use a Valve Index which i also reviewed. This video i was using Trackir however.

[@JarppaGuru]

3:57 NOT buy if there buttons from right side. so this allready proove all panels invidually not come. im not also buy 2 button boxes they are annoying buttons all around plane so confusing. if this is throtle then all button only near and that side. need learn fly wrong way and only thing fly sim to get feel real plane lol

[@M-28xD]

Watching this while unboxing my Virpil stick and base. xDDD

[@MrPhantom453]

Thanks for the video Mr Kite. I did enjoy watching you in-mission ... but labels on?? Really?? :-) What was that mission you were flying? This HOTAS is a real mixed bag. Some really good features and then some not so good. However, for $899.95 USD it would need to be just about perfect, make coffee too and come with a stripper and an extra set of steak knives!!

[@737Maxter]

I use labels. The in game long range view is not realistic. And I am definitely not using zoom to look for targets and/or bandits as fighter pilots don't have binoculars and doing that is worse than using labels, which most people do. So give him a break lol.

[@RedKiteRender]

For general flying i don't use labels (or the ^ icons only), had full aircraft labels just to keep the action fast and easy for the demonstration :) I think they spent all the budget on the mechanical parts of the bases and less on the handles, it shows they've never made a consumer product before. It's a great bit of kit, with issues. Very interested to see how their products will evolve with my and other testers feedback. They're already changing around the cam/spring setup from what i received.

[@MrPhantom453]

@@RedKiteRender Yeah, I Know. Just twisting your tail a bit mate!

[@RedKiteRender]

@@MrPhantom453 No worries, was in response to both comments :)

[@CameTo]

Decent enough hotas. If I had one, I'd replace something pointless like the bleed air switch to control flaps and something else like emergency probe ext for gear

[@theeltea]

Just bind it to whatever you prefer?

[@mersyndol]

You do have two hands mate :) Looks like too much "Control Surface Throw" on both the throttle and stick! ????

[@RedKiteRender]

You'l have to teach me levitation! That shot of me installing the Joystick, off camera i'm holding the Stick base up, without that the whole thing would fall down.

[@captainunderpants9103]

now my VKB gunfighter mk2 and warthog throttle just look stupid after watching this :(

[@Eli-uv4jy]

In my opinion the gunfighter is still superior to this

[@RedKiteRender]

At the moment my Warthog / Virpil WarBRD is my favourite, but then i've not taken the time to adjust the internals on the WinWing stick base. The VKB Gunfigher is a great stick too! though i don't think anything matches the long travel throttle/panel.

[@captainunderpants9103]

well i can't say the VKB is a bad stick tho. but that throttle omg 😅

[@rwhunt99]

I'm not a fan of having an exclusive set up of any kind, only because I fly several different aircraft and when you change to a different aircraft, you lose immersion that is rather disconcerting over not having one. this especially includes those cockpit builders. Add that, the cost is getting ridiculous as they cost as much as the high end computer you need to begin with.

[@RedKiteRender]

Generally i Agree, but then my normal setup is a modified Warthog hotas! I do look at the generic designs with a little envy after leaving my x-55. DCS and sims have certain other requirements that real life doesn't so the designs don't reflect that (eg camera zoom, trackir/camera, sim service commands) Which can be an issue.

[@OnlineBike]

PS2/DIN keyboard cables? Man... that's an oldschool approach.....

[@twoknife]

"Weighing as much as a bicycle at 15kg". That must be a seriously heavy bike. My bike weighs about half of that and that isn't even all that crazy light in the world of bikes. It would be nice to see some internals for the throttle though and see where which material is used. That can probably explain the weight. On the Warthog throttle for instance, almost all of the weight is down to the bottom plate. The actual mechanism is all plastic.

[@RedKiteRender]

Perhaps my bike is getting old haha, I probably should of clarified as a 'mountain bike' with mine being an old full suspension downhill spec bike weighting about the same as the full setup.

[@rodriquezivey2023]

Box 📦 today Augusta Georgia Rockivey

[@nathanaelgodson3994]

id looooove to have this....but man is it expensive q.q

[@mururoa7024]

Well, looks like it's time to upgrade your pedals then.

[@RedKiteRender]

Been on my mind for some time, just a low priority!

[@mururoa7024]

@@RedKiteRender In case you were considering the MFG Crosswind (the ones I have) excellent in every aspect, however something reviews don't mention is that they put your feet a bit high off the ground. Might be a question of comfort.

[@RedKiteRender]

Thanks Muru.

[@SDsc0rch]

geez man! your r a bucking bronco on the tanker! look at you! lol

[@RedKiteRender]

Using a strange stick and with the issues i mentioned will do that to you :) For an example of my normal abilities with familiar and tuned hardware checkout my F-16c air refuelling tutorial, Cheers.

[@JarppaGuru]

4:54 real buttons and VR!? make no sense. only need glove and IR lights on finger so can push VR button LOL. take your money later. it will come. and your hardware buttons come useles.. you just click buttons on vr with your finger. AWESOME!

[@RedKiteRender]

Problem with virtual buttons, you can't feel them, and have to be looking down to find them with your VR pointer finger. Give me hardware buttons with keyed tops that can be navigated by feel alone any day over virtual ones. Now i can reach the fuel dump, hook, aar door, select my nav lights or radio settings and so on. All whilst my head remains looking out the cockpit without losing focus on say, formation flying or tracking a target.

[@rodriquezivey2023]

Rockivey today look 👀 happy 😊

[@makerpox420gaming6]

if i just could get them☹

[@Agent0range67]

I was hoping for face reveal

[@colderwar]

Well, well, well a Chinese product falls apart...that's unpossible :)))

[@jackieivey537]

December today happy birthday 🎁🎂🎉 box 📦 today December 15

[@joachimbrand2314]

Hmm... F 16 Hotas sounds nice...

[@cheungwai318]

hardcore

[@royrached6668]

1000$ for joystick a nd throttle and game only cost 50$ 🤪 lol

[@carissaaudya7890]

A

[@blameusa7082]

meh chinesium... will last a few months

[@RedKiteRender]

I'l be covering the WinWing again later once i've had time to wear it in and see if anything fails. On another note: The Thrustmaster Warthog is also made in china, along with many others.

[@thebiggestoneyouveverhad]

Spanner = Wrench....

[@RedKiteRender]

i used a spanner, sure a wrench can work too.

[@deepwebinterior_155]

I sent it back to manufacturer for repairing TWICE during the FIRST MONTH i recieved this industrial garbage.even i haven't uesd it for over four hours.Trully,i have to say the desginer of the stick create a great full metal simulation joystick with a attractive price,only on the blueprint.BUT the porblem is.in the end,each component has been well manufactured,then SOMEBODAY DRANK A LOT assembled this great parts up,and finally it came out like a RUBBISH.I will not recommand it to anyboday. Sorry for my poor english.