wish and disney's musical reluctance

[@Cerealously]

I hate that musicals have just been so neglected recently, people don’t hate musicals, they hate BAD musicals

[@kingbaco1233]

And the bad ones are the ones that get the spotlight!!! Tick tick boom did not deserve straight to Netflix

[@girlsensation]

Exactly! Also, Disney should understand that people don’t hate original stories (in fact, people would prefer them over sequels and remakes), but people despise bad writing.

[@Ryzard]

Nah, people don't hate bad musicals. They hate bad musicals without a heart. Source: ratatouille musical

[@deliriousmusicality8840]

​@@Ryzard tru, good source, I also think the same goes for a musical like cats, which people seem to like because it has a lot of heart and meaning in it, despite it being (imo) incredibly terrible and uncomfortable. I can't watch it and I'm not a fan of the music but again, I'm outnumbered lol. Just makes me think of it cause it's a cult classic despite being "bad"

[@anonymouslucario285]

​@Ryzard isn't that an independently made musical? I don't think we should be comparing it to big name industry musicals

[@valsoop]

The saddest part about Wish is that all the creatives that worked on this movie were SO OBVIOUSLY held back by disney executives telling them what to cut and what would bring most money "according to test groups" Even Julia Michaels!! I saw an intervew she did talking about how it was to work for disney and she says she had ABOUT 3 WEEKS to deliver each song but only using a cliffnotes version of the script... They didn't even tell her the name of the protagonist, just described Asha as "a young activist that loves her people" After knowing that and seeing scrapped storyboards and animatics of a previous version of wish I feel so sorry for her and everyone who worked on this movie

[@SugarSpice07]

I remember hearing that, and while I was entirely unsurprised, I do feel very bad. Especially since a lot of the early concepts looked really great!

[@WobblesandBean]

​@@SugarSpice07 The first draft of the film looked spectacular. Asha and her grandfather lived outside the city away from the kingdom to avoid capture, the whole "looking at the stars" thing was wisdom passed down from him to her in a really touching scene, and of course, Starboy. Then Disney happened and all that good stuff went away.

[@rainydayjules]

Okay giving her three weeks for each song and such barebones details is actually criminal, I don’t think even a Broadway writer would be able to make that work!

[@geministrial950]

Disney writers are god's greatest soldiers, I could NOT bear with this amount of disrespect to my craft

[@mysterything8348]

I don’t know if Julie Michaels having more time would have helped. Her style just isn’t good for musicals.

[@Cosmo-Young]

Wish was literally just the musical embodiment of a checklist

[@everfluctuating]

god thats exactly it, isnt it? they had a big anniversary coming up, they looked at all the elements from their past successful films, dumped them into a mixer and poured the resulting sludge out onto a film reel.

[@lunadetta]

THIS

[@long_dennis]

“It’s the definition of a charts movie. It tries so hard to have everything that it ends up having nothing.” -the art of war

[@MoondustManwise]

Interesting thing to note about animal sidekicks- 9 times out of 10 they tend to be character foils to the mc. Think Flounder's cowardice vs Ariel's outgoing exploratory nature, or Pascal being surprisingly stern and down to earth while Rapunzel is very much a head in the clouds kind of gal. Even Abuu, who at first glance seems exactly like Aladdin, is much more greedy and selfish to contrast with Aladdin's generous nature. The goat does not act as a foil to Asha in any way, not just because it was only ever meant to be plushie bait, but in part because Asha's character is as 2d as the movie wants to look.

[@octosquid48]

“Asha's character is as 2D as the movie wants to look” I love how people are just coming up with so many creative insults for this film lmfao

[@emilylike-the-soup2502]

That’s a fascinating take! I’d never thought of that, but you’re right.

[@gothicMCRgirl]

It’s a classic staple of comedy to have “character plus their opposite”. It’s utilized time and time again because it works, when used correctly.

[@Funnygenderman]

And Ariel has flounder AND Sebastian, both her opposites, in flounders cowardice, and Sebastian’s parental, sometimes overbearing nature, they balance her out and keep her (mostly) out of trouble.

[@uniquenewyork3325]

If you want to count princess and the frog, Ray and Louis are very laid back and believe strongly in what seems impossible. Ray is a more obvious foil because he believes more in the power of stars and how real they are than most of the other characters. Also, princess and the frog is everything wish wanted to be. It already did the wishing on stars thing and it was decided by the end of the movie that you should work hard but still have a touch of wonder and let yourself enjoy life too. It even says in the movie it's not always about what you WANT, what you NEED (spiritually, emotionally) is more important. Wish basically spits on that message.

[@Cosmo-Young]

Howard Ashman has a really good quote that I found thru a Sideways video that goes something like “if you can cut out a song in a musical and it still makes sense, you’ve done something wrong”

[@elizabethlevesque6978]

Heck yeah, Sideways!

[@tjenadonn6158]

Counterargument: "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd." You could still tell the story of the musical if you cut out all of the "Ballad" seections, but when Tim Burton did so for his film desecration it completely changed the tenor of the story and took out a good deal of connective tissue.

[@valsoop]

For anyone that loves musicals and somehow hasn't discovered Sideways yet this is your chance to find your next favorite youtuber (after max ofc)

[@VesnaVK]

​@@tjenadonn6158that's an example, not a counterexample.

[@residentstar]

SIDEWAYS MENTION !!!!

[@mads_in_zero]

Personally my favorite part of Wish's plot is that the main conflict is that a greedy collector is trying to take and seal away the art of a centenarian old man who just wants to make people smile with his art. So like, it's basically Disney seething that Mickey Mouse is entering the public domain as they turn 100 years old as a company.

[@endernightblade1958]

yeah how dare asha do that to magnifico (/j)

[@rainydayjules]

see if they’d leaned into that it could’ve been interesting, but no way is Disney gonna criticize itself to that level lol

[@wantedbird55srandomchannel28]

​@@rainydayjules I could see DreamWorks doing this, like how they subverted the "villain sees the light in the hero's eyes and motives" with Puss in Boots 2.

[@Alex-mh5mu]

my personal favorite part is that the king was supposed to be a bad person who collects wishes with force and makes people live bad lives but he ended up being the hero who does nothing wrong, helps his people and spoils them but is punished anyway

[@nnnnnn-lk1wd]

He wants to inspire people with music by using magic to make it come true instead of working for it himself. Walt used to work for a living, didn't manipulate people to like his art through magic.

[@hollyzandstra4413]

33:44 What's sad is At All Costs had a purpose... as a love song from an earlier draft in the movie. The fact that when that plotline was removed they stuck this song into a completely different scene with the villain is bonkers. Can you imagine moving A Whole New World and now it's Jafar taking Aladdin to the Cave of Wonders or something?

[@laurabowles]

OK, that makes SO much sense. When I got to that part of the movie I thought, "huh, this feels like a love song, and that's weird because they're singing to these wish ball things...?" I legit thought he might try to make a move on her or something at the end LOL

[@SugarSpice07]

That last part is genuinely the best way to explain why this song feels so weird in this context.

[@oncreativemode5486]

legit imo it feels like those gacha life 1 music videos where gachatubers would get edgy ocs to sing a pop song sung by one singer to serve as a "moving on from my cheater boyfriend" drama story, it's THAT awkward

[@muppetvision]

i like the actual song itself outside of the context, it’s sort of lovely. but in the movie’s context??? it makes no sense. and with the added external context having it be between teenage asha and magnifico just makes it feel so gross

[@geministrial950]

​@@oncreativemode5486 oddly specific but okay

[@johnsmith2875]

The worst part is that Disney is going to take these failures as “we need to make more sequels”

[@PyxeledGenesis]

They already have. They announced Incredibles 3 (rip Brad Bird's efforts) along with some other soulless sequels

[@aynohalopesdealmeida9932]

Especially after the success of Inside Out 2, they will think it made money just for being a sequel and not from being a GOOD sequel

[@snuffles504]

​@@aynohalopesdealmeida9932 part of the reason I didn't go see Inside Out 2. Not that the lack of my one ticket sale matters.

[@ot7biasedmashups]

Pixar keeps kicking Disney's ass when it comes to original movies and sequels but instead of learning from that they get milked dry. I will never forgive what they're doing to Toy Story... ​@@aynohalopesdealmeida9932

[@KristofskiKabuki]

It’s actually kind of impressive how even the scenes that are full of people and movement look empty and dead

[@octosquid48]

I saw someone else point out that Rosas look more empty than the plague-ridden streets of Paris in the Hunchback of Notre Dame

[@MissJasmine305]

The KZbinr *art at midnight* has a great video about why that is! In her video she compares Rosas to Corona, Rapunzel's kingdom. It really opened my eyes about why Rosas felt so empty all the time, even in Welcome to Rosas, when it should feel the most vibrant and lived-in.

[@definitelynotashark1799]

It reminded me of Kingdom Hearts cutscenes so many times 😭

[@MikuDrone]

I will never forgive Disney for cutting the adorable romance that could’ve been Asha and Starboy. Also, a king and queen villain couple would’ve been so cool.

[@girlsensation]

True

[@tjenadonn6158]

Let's face it: villain couples kick ass, especially in stories with villain protagonists. Magenta and Riff-Raff from "The Rocky Horror Show," Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett from "Sweeney Todd," Jimmy McGill and Kim Wexler from "Better Call Saul:" I mean if you want an iconic king and queen villainous power couple look now further than the titular pair from "Macbeth." It never doesn't work.

[@user-iy3nt5mm2v]

@@tjenadonn6158Heinz and Charlene Doofenshmirtz from PnF: back to the 2nd dimension rocked as well lmao

[@StarryBakari]

@@tjenadonn6158ROCKY HORROR MY BELOVED

[@MsMvsc]

Misconception. The starboard was going to be revealed as the personification of her grandpa's wish. In other words, it's a younger version of him.

[@ASloppyJoe]

You know the last three big disney musicals before Wish did their "obligatory animal sidekick" in a lot more fun ways. Sven wasn't Anna's or Elsa's, he was Kristoph's. the Moana rooster was a bait-and-switch, replacing the obvious and promoted funny-cute-pig with an ugly, unintelligent, borderline detrimental chicken, and that was a good bit. Encanto didn't even have one, unless you count Bruno's rat friends, which would probably be a nice thing to do for the guy. The Goat is so barebones in the face of this that it's a wonder why they did it outside of Monkey's Paw-ing everyone's complaints; "Oh, 'modern Disney' isn't good enough for you? Fine, HERE'S your CLASSIC Disney!"

[@Gwen1661]

You could argue the "side kick" in Encanto, if we must categorize something under that, is Casita itself

[@carolkoski4875]

i heard the goat was supposed to have a cutesy voice and sound like a child, which i feel wouldve given the character an entirely different vibe

[@karathewolfsfanficchannel933]

Jolly>>>>>>>>>>Valentino

[@iluvchess14736]

Heiheis the goat I love the trope of "dumb guy saves the day by being dumb" and heihei is that trope

[@Commenter839]

​@@carolkoski4875It's true, someone uploaded a deleted storyboard where he had a cutesy voice. (He also did more in that 3 minute draft than he did in the whole movie, he stalled Magnifico by pretending to be Star while Star was actually off trying to free the wishes, and called in a bunch of animals to overwhelm Magnifico)

[@Graylikethecolornotgrace]

I swear I always forget Wish even exists. I feel like I get jump scared at the store when I see merch for it like "Oh shit yeah that's a movie that exists"

[@mer_acle8101]

Oh, "Wish" I remember XD hatewatching is powerful lol. However I legit think nobody remembers Raya and the Last Dragon

[@motherplayer]

Of course they will forget it. Now that "Inside Out 2" is making the money they thought "Wish" would, they can just ignore it and possibly put out merchandise for the few who would still want it ernestly.

[@roseyoung44]

​@@mer_acle8101 Except for Lindsey Ellis 💀💀💀

[@akarinaene5136]

​@@mer_acle8101 I dont get why raya is so universaly liked where I live. Everyone loves and recommends it. I watched it and hated it.

[@PyxeledGenesis]

Went to CVS the other week and they had a whole shelf of unsold, untouched Wish toys. That was satisfying to see.

[@quinnwinter6361]

The other thing that bugs me with characters being “adorkable” for the sake of it is that the behavior the characters are showing should come from someone. Of course rapunzel is awkward and too much, she hasn’t grown up around enough people. Same with Anna to an extent but she’s also coping with hurt of losing her family during formative years (Elsa emotionally from a young age then her parents). These behaviors exist Because of peoples life not because it’s cute to watch and when you take that away this character trope is always going to fall flat.

[@geministrial950]

EXACTLY. Awkward people aren't born awkward, there's a reason behind them. Just like everyone else.

[@Haze-xr9rc]

i have my criticisms over moments of mirabel's adorkableness for the sake of it, but the narrative purpose is if she were 100% competent it would make a lower contrast between her capabilities and other family members (especially with the ones without gifts like her grandmother, dad, and uncle)

[@virtual_fairy]

first animated black woman lead in 14 years, first black animated woman lead to stay human for the majority of the movie, and yet, she's completely unremarkable, boring, and stale. it feels like disney said "here, are you happy?" and it's lemonade made of piss.

[@Sophildoodle]

Also, She’s Afro-Latina! So she also put a stain on The Hispanic representation As well. Asha would have been a great character if her motives were better and she didn’t present herself as a Selfish, Annoying Brat that lacks No thinking skills and common sense to those around her whatsoever. Remember, the kingdom is now in jeopardy of bad wishes now all because Asha couldn’t Handel being Told “No”…The Concept Asha was MUCH Better.

[@papermr.magolorguy7957]

@@virtual_fairy also she could have been a princess with a pretty dress. 😭😭😭

[@Cheezitnator]

And still no black prince/male love interest. None

[@muzzycosmos9400]

@@Cheezitnator Doesn't prince Naveen count as black prince and love interest?

[@muzzycosmos9400]

@@Cheezitnator Ok no, nevermind, he's transformed for a good part of the movie rip

[@VictorianWaistcoat]

When you started playing clips from songs, I was like "wow that sounds terrible" and then I realized I was watching it on x1.25, so I slowed it down and wow that still sounds terrible

[@deathnstuff]

this is my favorite comment lmaooo

[@RM-um9xx]

Trying to explain the pajama joke. 1. Asha is right and the star DID put on pajamas, the gag is supposed to be that it's strutting and putting on a fashion show with pajamas on + the pajamas are ridiculous and sparkly + it's making silly faces and gestures 2. Goat says thank you I feel seen because goat wears a little jumpsuit/"pajamas" throughout the whole movie, which means he likes pajamas and appreciates when someone else recognizes how great pajamas are ...I think????

[@strawbsbloobs]

that was my interpretation too. the neckline and style of the goat pajamas are similar to the star's ones except theirs are sparkly

[@moonfish3638]

I’m crying I thought the joke was that the goat is implying he’s gay (“I feel seen” when star is strutting around in a dress) and I was flabbergasted

[@GeekMasterGames]

Worst part is, the star character was initially designed to be a humanoid prince type character doing a fish out of water bit, and potential love interest for the main character. We could have had a peak Tumblr sexyman

[@josephmonasky9495]

He also would've been a younger version of Asha's grandfather!

[@SleepyHollow-eu2vl]

Every time we're refused a Tumblr sexyman, an angel loses it's wings

[@sinfulloccultist950]

​@@SleepyHollow-eu2vl you're referring to hotel Transylvania Dracula arent you

[@SleepyHollow-eu2vl]

@@sinfulloccultist950 Sony animations have to suffer the consequences of what they did

[@gemstone108]

@@SleepyHollow-eu2vl Bold to assume tumblr couldn’t have sexyman’d the Dracula we got

[@im_bored_hi_]

Thank you internet for taking all the concept art and behind the scenes and cut ideas and just…making a new version of Wish out of that that is so much better just because you can.

[@carolkoski4875]

that's something i find beautiful about the internet, how people come together to give back the soul to a piece of art that was washed out by capitalism

[@galantina4086]

Honestly I wish they remade this movie while focusing on more ideas that were scrapped.

[@Commenter839]

​​@@galantina4086Agreed. It's probably never gonna happen, but I never wanted a movie to be remade as much as this one, it had so much potential to be something special.

[@bumbabees]

@@carolkoski4875 same. disney tried to stifle creativity and ended up making something so bad it inspired so much MORE creativity than it wouldve otherwise. doesnt stop them from making money, but it does make me happy to see nobody will ever stop creating, no matter what.

[@coatimundi69]

the internet did the same with Varian and the Seven Kingdoms :) i appreciate that things that dont exist or only exist in concept are still getting their flowers!

[@lilmaibe]

On a note on 'I'm A Star'... The song gets even worse when you realize that what they are *trying* to achieve with it is foreshadowing that everyone is stardust and thus has wishing-star powers... And not only is the song so bad that that gets completely lost, but it's also literally something that could have been done in about 1-2 lines of dialogue. Have Asha mention how her dad always used to tell her that everyone is made of stardust and then have her figure the meaning out at a crucial moment. Bam. works much better

[@GapingGorble]

I also feel like the song kind of misses (or at least undermines) its own joke? Like these animals just gained the ability to talk so of course when they try to explain *the meaning of the universe* it comes out as word salad, har har. But because Disney wants people to listen to it out of context and have it go viral, they play it as (mostly) unironically deep and inspiring instead of comedic. It's like if the Mean Girls musical played "Sexy" as unironically empowering.

[@lilmaibe]

​@@GapingGorble Also there's an additional level of undermining to it because it's portrayed as if they been able to very well communicate with each other before and know more about stuff than the goat, so they'd know how to speak without forced wordsalad.

[@audrey_the_professor]

somebody said the art and animation style looked like sophia the first and i can't unsee it anymore

[@arandomidiot1593]

OH SO IT WASN'T JUST ME. It hit me when watching this video, the shading and lighting and rendering don't succeed in making the film look 2D but they do make it look _flat._ And not in a good way. It makes the film look cheaper and unfinished.

[@SylviaGrome]

At least Sophia as the excuse of being a TV show made in like 2012 Wish is a big budget movie made in 2023

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

They wanted to go for a water color look for the movie so they removed the motion blur. The problem is that they didn't replace it with another technique to make the movement look more fluid. Most made for TV animation lacks motion blur because they are usually working on shorter deadlines with less money. Most people associate animation without motion blur with something cheaply made for this specific reason.

[@Owl_BunnyXD]

Don’t involve poor Sofia , her show is honestly way more entertaining than Wish :/

[@SylviaGrome]

@@Owl_BunnyXD yeah and the animation looks better despite being a TV show from 2012 with a much smaller budget. Wish was the big budget 100th anniversary Movie for Disney made in 2023 and has worse animation

[@WobblesandBean]

Another thing I've noticed is that Disney only uses one word titles because they want them to become a hashtag. Frozen, Tangled, Moana, Wish. BRING BACK LONGER TITLES, DISNEY!

[@jaypee116]

Yes! Thank you for noticing.

[@Chaki21]

Oof that actually stinks Though, to be fair, most older titles also were like that Pinnochio, Bambi, Dumbo, Cinderella, Pocahontas, Rescuers, Tarzan, Mulan, Aladdin, and probably more I'm missing (just while writing that Hercules came to mind)

[@Commenter839]

I don't think hashtags were really a thing when Tangled came out though. That movie was originally supposed to just be called "Rapunzel", but they switched to "Tangled" because they were hoping to give the movie more gender neutral appeal. "The Princess and the Frog" came out just a year before Tangled, and after Tangled we got Wreck-It Ralph

[@Chaki21]

@@Commenter839 might be an unexpected thing where with Tangled and Frozen it became so popular and the names so short the hashtags increased, and they realised short names = more hashtags, so they went with that for the following titres Kinda how Beauty and the Beast unexpectedly won them an oscar which made them try to replicate it with Pocahontas

[@Nopeasaurus]

long titles or short titles dont matter. good writing and animation does.

[@sageslittlechannel]

i WISH they hadn’t make this movie hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[@vincenthoule5643]

The original concept was so much better. Disney should've follow the original concept with 2d.

[@magicalgirlmel3289]

A few added thoughts, If you'll indulge me: -Another function of the animal sidekick is to give the lead reason to vocalize their thoughts without talking to themselves, which can function better when the sidekick doesn't talk back. (See: Pascal) -I saw speculation that Star was being primed to be a new mascot for Disney as they lose more and more of Mickey to Public Domain. Disney's held onto the "When you wish upon a star" song for so long, taking a literal wishing star as their mascot makes sense, they've even shown in concept material how the star's expressions were modeled off of classic Mickey. I don't know if I fully believe it, but given the way that the star was originally made to be human-esque and was then mascotified, for lack of a better term, I can see where the belief comes from. -It is SO obvious that At All Costs was meant to be a duet between Asha and Human Star back when that was still a thing and production materials imply that the relationship might even be romantic. -This is the Thanks I Get was 100% released so they could go "We have a villain song this time guys!" Since that's something people have been begging for the return of for years. - While I don't have much hope for Moana 2 knowing that they didn't bring Lin back and knowing the history that it was originally meant to be a Disney+ series, it VERY MUCH worries me that the only music that is in the Moana 2 trailers is from the first film, giving me the impression that they don't have much faith in the sequel's music.

[@Rikrobat]

Such a shame that “This Is the Thanks I Get” absolutely doesn’t fit the bill for a Disney villain song. 😂 It’s there on the technicality that a supposed villain sang the song. And that sucks because a title like that would have made for a banger villain song, especially if it were a decent guy enraged that all of his “benevolent efforts” were taken for granted by the ungrateful masses. That’s certainly what it seems the song was going for, but the lyrics and melody do not work at all.

[@karathewolfsfanficchannel933]

I heard the sequel’s music is being written by the artist for the unlicensed Brigerton Musical and I do not have hope.

[@clairekurtzman1036]

they did get Lin on board for Moana 2 though! I completely agree with all that you said, especially about the villain song being bare minimum😭😭

[@emofurryboyfriendasmr]

​@@karathewolfsfanficchannel933 the WHAT

[@arandomidiot1593]

Star being their mascot makes perfect sense- every Disney film starts with that intro with the castle and a _shooting star._ *He's that star.*

[@KassFireborn]

"A middle-aged man scheming and rubbing his hands together in a Kohl's parking lot." That is a *damn* fine burn.

[@EvilMastermindOfDoom]

Frankly all I have to say about this movie is that at some point a bunch of woodland creatures describe themselves as "shareholders" in a song. I have so many questions about this I don't even care to ask, let alone seek answers for.

[@wantedbird55srandomchannel28]

@@EvilMastermindOfDoom The shareholders thing was probably the most jarring and disappointing lyric I've ever heard in a song.

[@NotD-kp3by]

I just think Wish (and tbh modern disney as a whole) is a perfect example of what happens when you as a company treat your films as commodities instead of works of art. Its the reason they chose pop artists instead of theartre writers, celebrity casting instead of genuine talent and making stories made to supposedly relate to the widest population possible but in reality there something no one actually asked for

[@Chaki21]

"When you try to reach everyone, you end up reaching no one" I don't remember who said that, but it's a pretty good line imo

[@Yipper64]

Its interesting. Makes me wonder if there's someway to slightly restructure the economic system, not to remove capital or personal property, but simply to encourage art to be treated as art rather than commodity. Then again, it kind of already is doing that just taking a real long time.

[@NotD-kp3by]

@Yipper64 It's pretty simple, just promote the idea of meritocracy(which is a capitalist concept). I'd argue it's Disney the reson became such a power house in the first place. If any company should take risks to make good art it's Disney as they can afford to do so and will be reward if it's a good choice it's what happened with Encanto or even now with Puss in Boots or Into the Spidervers

[@Yipper64]

@@NotD-kp3by Ah yeah but how do you promote meritocracy when everything is about "DEI"? The "E" in that acronym being the most blatant problem point.

[@NotD-kp3by]

@Yipper64 ...you can still do that??? DEI's aren't that influential when it comes to employment its more of a foot note for companies if anything and it also in many way promotes meritocracy as many white people are often chosen over People of colour despite being less qualified. Especially in art, People of colour are kind of the backbone for the industry

[@mrsmaggiekoch]

One if the worst things about this film is the bland character design. My 2-year-old daughter LOVES Encanto and when walking in stores will often mistake merchandise featuring Asha with Isabella from Encanto. "Look! Isabella!" It's understandable mistake even for a non-toddler, as they have very similar looks and color scheme. And stores are still crowded with Wish, Raya, and Frozen 2 merch because NOBODY wants it.

[@IcyDiamond]

I made the same mistake while watching Once Upon A Studio and I was 18 at the time

[@opinionberry]

You can tell that Welcome to Rosas wanted to be The Family Madrigal so bad, but what made The Family Madrigal so good was that they gave us so much information on the STORY and the characters we’re supposed to care about. In four minutes (an absolute fricking banger four minutes)we can deduce that the Madrigals are the unofficial head family of the village. They’re the “Amazing Madrigals”, and Antonio’s gift ceremony is a community wide event that kicks off the entire plot. We can deduce that Abuela is a bit of a severe figure hyperfocused on “the miracle” and serving the community. We learn that her son has been completely excommunicated, and while her daughters are married to sweethearts, their gifts can be a bit burdensome, Pepa’s being “hard to control” and Julieta’s being in high demand. When Mirabel introduces her sisters she says “the beauty and the brawn do no wrong”, implying that *she* does wrong, and she’s the family screwup/scapegoat. “She’s the perfect golden child” lets us know that things are tense bewteeen her and Isabela in particular, and her telling Mariano she’s a “primadonna” lets us know it’s full on hostility. AND this also lets us know that Mariano marrying Isabela will also be something to remember for later in the film. The way everyone’s color palette lets you know whose kid is whose, and they move in accordance with their personality. Camilo is the goofball shapeshifter, Dolores listens more than she speaks, Augustín is accident prone, which even gives us insight on how he ended up with Julieta. Then you look at Welcome to Rosas. It doesn’t seem like a particularly tight knit community like the encanto. It’s supposed to be this magical lamd of wishes, but it looks generic. Despite what the lyrics say, there are no “creations on display”. Mirabel sings the opening number as a member of La Familia Madrigal singing her relatives’ praises. Asha is…a tour guide? Like, is she PR? Does she have a W-2 with the palace? She could’ve easily just been the naive princess singing about how wonderful her kingdom is without knowing about her father’s true intentions with people’s wishes were, but nooooo. That would be compelling. That would be substantial. This film is just EMPTY, my dudes.

[@cloudyloudly2404]

Oh look at you, looking straight on and denouncing this movie. If only there was something like this that happened in Disney’s history that was about people criticizing one thing and com- You know what, I’ll cut the bullshit. THIS MOVIE WAS MADE TO BE HATED ON! THIS MOVIE WAS MADE TO EXPOSE THE UGLINESS OF DISNEY’S HISTORY! SO SHUT UP!

[@vivixion]

7:39 The fact that I saw it in theaters and didn't even know that proves your point even more lmao (aside from my response to "name 3 new characters in Frozen 2" just being "there were new characters???" 💀)

[@VictorianWaistcoat]

mine was "THE SALAMANDER!!" Why have new characters when you could have that lil guy

[@ladypool1404]

@@VictorianWaistcoat I remember him! He's Pascal's cousin (The design is very similar to Pascal the cameleon from Tangled but he's blue and spits fire. It's cute but not very original!) At least, he is not annoying like Valentino to goat from Wish 😐That animal says nothing funny and an adult's voice coming from a baby goat is weird!

[@helixsol7171]

The salamander, Gale the wind spirit, and that water horse.

[@rainydayjules]

The only one I know is the new girl who people on tumblr were excited to have to ship with Elsa. Honeydew or something??

[@gemstone108]

@@rainydayjulesHoneymaren

[@CapedCrusader77]

Wait, Max, do you know about the original ideas for Wish? It was gonna be 2D animated, Asha was gonna be more reserved and stern, the King AND Queen were gonna be evil with their pet cat Charo, and Star was gonna be a human star prince, he and Asha would've fallen in love, and At All Costs was their song. We almost got a LOVE song!

[@Chaki21]

Ok actually if Wish, even in this current state, was 2D animated I would've found it so much more charming

[@Nopeasaurus]

Tired of Disney always making their female protagonists "adorkable". There's nothing wrong with those personality types but when almost every single main female protagonist from Rapunzel, Anna, Judy, Moana, Raya, Mirabel, and Asha end up landing somewhere on that spectrum, then its clear there is a formula at play, a formula that is growing increasingly tiring. Why are they so opposed to introverted or more serious female leads? Hell, they had Elsa and everyone loved her.

[@saeranchoi3343]

@@Nopeasaurus I think Elsa was carried mostly by her iconic design and song rather than her characterization but you’re absolutely right that we desperately need more variety. I’ve noticed that introverted female protagonists are not that common in general. It’s just much easier for writers to use a character who is more talkative and impulsive to drive the plot forward. I’ve also seen so many people call introverted characters boring that I’m inclined to believe that a considerable amount of people just don’t get introverts.

[@CapedCrusader77]

saeranch, I think that's what they were going for. An stern, introverted Kings apprentice and a goofy, fun-loving, but kind hearted star prince that manages to slowly make her realize that she can have fun every once in a while, and not be so stressed out about everything that happened by herself. I've called the movie version of At All Costs 'The Imposter' and the demo version 'At All Costs' because I REFUSE to call that duet about bubbles (I know they're wishes, but you get what I mean) At All Costs, since it is a LOVE SONG!

[@saeranchoi3343]

@@CapedCrusader77 100% agree, based on their dynamic in the deleted scenes. With more polished lyrics, At All Costs could have been one of Disney’s greatest love songs but they completely wasted its potential by using it in a scene that didn’t do it justice.

[@FiestaTX17]

The fact we were this close to getting an evil Disney couple and they didn’t go with it baffles me, it would have been the first in Disney history and really fun.

[@xXAcidBathXx]

As an artist, the visuals of wish piss me the hell off.

[@WobblesandBean]

Me too. They're so lazy, like I get what they were going for but they didn't put enough effort into it. So instead of looking like a watercolor, it just looks unrendered.

[@idontneedachannelthanksyou7292]

They’re so bad I didn’t even clock them as “watercolors” (they aren't, not at all) 1-they’re too dark. It’s really hard to get darks with watercolors 2-it looks too pristine. Watercolors have splotches and brushstrokes and pigment going over the line Just the main points on why it doesn’t read like watercolors. I saw someone say it looks like a show for disney jr And I have to agree

[@ellentaylor6883]

I've developed a major disdain for Jennifer Lee after she bashed traditional animation and said it was limited.

[@MissJasmine305]

@@idontneedachannelthanksyou7292 YES THIS! I kept thinking that Wish reminded me of *something* Disney related but I couldn't put my finger on it. It looks like a slightly higher budget Sophia the First!

[@kaykeunil]

⁠@@MissJasmine305the Sofia the first bit,,,wow you’re right. Which is hilariously sad bc unlike Wish, I at least enjoyed Sofia the First lmao.

[@skylaralley2465]

The best thing that has happened with wish are the artists out there that were able to draw, animate, and write a million times better (Highly recommend the channel Jonah Who Two who has rewritten a few of the songs)

[@SugarSpice07]

Oh my dog, I love the Jonah's versions!

[@legrandluan]

YESSS JONAH!!

[@Mockingdragon]

My absolute least favorite lyric in this movie is the little friend girl popping up to say "I was sweet but now I'm something else!" I think I literally shouted at the TV, "WHO ARE YOU?" I still don't remember her name and there was zero characterization to show that she was sweet. It was just so incredibly Tell, not Show.

[@Mockingdragon]

Also, I maintain "At All Costs" could have justified itself if it came back as a Dark Reprise villain song for Magnifico later. It was sitting RIGHT THERE, we didn't need the worst villain song I've ever heard.

[@karathewolfsfanficchannel933]

Bro even the moments where she was on screen you couldn’t get “sweet” from her actions or words lmao

[@snuffles504]

​​@@Mockingdragon I've not watched the movie, only heard the soundtrack, and that's exactly what I thought "At All Costs" was! Some kind of origin song for Magnifico explaining his love for his wife and Rosas, which would then get warped over the course of the movie to explain his villainous motivation. Imagine my surprise in watching this video and finding out that, no, it's a duet with Asha, and Magnifico has no motivation.

[@Alex-mh5mu]

​@@snuffles504 Magnifico does have motivation but it's heroic not villainous, so like why do we have to dislike him lol

[@skylaralley2465]

Remember when Disney passed on the beautiful film Nimona to make…this

[@0CLOWNFISH0]

I promise you nimona was better off not being in disneys hands. The amazing stuff you see in the film now would most likely would not have been in it if Disney took control.

[@carolkoski4875]

probably for the best. If Nimona was under disney's hands it would've looked exactly like wish, and you bet all the queer parts would've been nowhere to be seen

[@geministrial950]

Necessary evil. Nimona would have been massacred by Disney's "keep it safe" strategy.

[@whatastandupguy3050]

Nimona? Beautiful? I feel like I didn’t watch the same movie

[@skylaralley2465]

@@whatastandupguy3050 can I ask why you didn’t like it?

[@dragonetafireball]

First time watching Wish I got whiplash from how fast Asha goes from “you are our beloved king and a borderline demigod I’d serve unconditionally” to wanting to rebel and change the whole system. Like there’s not even a song’s length and he barely gets to explain his logic so she can poke holes in it. We don’t know what happened to his family to make home so paranoid but it’s implied to be really violent. Like realistically you can’t be granting vague wishes and if she took slightly longer to think there could’ve been a middle ground option he rejected THEN she’d rebel and he’d fall to dark magic.

[@endernightblade1958]

realistically, yes, asking for magnifico to grant wishes you want is in fact selfish. he does it at his own convenience to be sure, but the fact is that you are asking someone else to make something happen for you or someone you know with nothing in return, as opposed to doing something about it yourself - as grandpa does by the end. the entire kingdom seems void of ambition because they’re all just counting on their wish being granted by this ruler, to the point where they just see him as the guy who grants their wishes every once in a while. the entire thing of “just keep wishing” at the end seems like a particular part of that: if you just keep hoping, maybe someday disney will actually listen and make a good movie again. it’s just a whole mantra against putting in effort. yeah, just sit there and do nothing, accept what we’re giving you in the vain hopes that someday it will improve. the truth is, if you want your situation to improve, you need to do something. and in fact that is exactly what asha does, by challenging the status quo of magnifico and in essence taking his place as wishgranter. but then… she just says “oh yeah don’t do what i did to get here lmao”.

[@draykohunter6805]

It all feels so backwards

[@averyeml]

I am SO GLAD the goat wasn’t just my red flag too. The amount of “omg my voice sounds like that?” and butt jokes really gave me some “I’m losing to a BIRD” energy but not as good or memorable.

[@arandomidiot1593]

what's "I'm losing to a BIRD" from again?? it's familiar but I don't remember what movie it was from

[@averyeml]

@@arandomidiot1593 it’s the Jason Alexander gargoyle in Hunchback of Notre Dame but the reason it sticks in a lot of people’s brains so much is because Lindsay Ellis used the clip a LOT in one/some of her videos

[@-_-0.0-_-]

speaking of merchandise sales: the second week this movie was out there was a huge Wish display at both Walmart, and some dolls in Aldi, all untouched or barely picked at. Meanwhile there was frozen merch that looked like it sold more units.

[@MissJasmine305]

I work in a grocery store bakery and we have these special designs and kits with edible images and little toys/toppers to put on cakes. We've got a bunch of Disney themed ones (Mickey, princesses, Stitch, etc) and for Wish's release we had a special sign to display that we'd gotten a themed kit for the movie in. I kid you not, since Wish's release we've had 1 ( *ONE* ) order for that kit. The movie's been out for almost a year.

[@windowsuser321]

Short People is a brilliant song that you would miss if you take it at face value. It's actually a condemnation of bigotry by applying it absurdly to hating short people. Randy Newman's satire can sometimes end up being so subtle that you can't even catch it.

[@carolkoski4875]

I will forever wonder why they didn't also hire LMM to do the music in wish. They didn't even get Alan Menken, a dude who's won them so many Tonys and Oscars before. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that?

[@pbjmochi8400]

Scheduling. The answer is scheduling. Wish *had* to come out at Disney's centennial, so the timeline had no room for flexibility. Someone like Lin-Manuel Miranda would require flexibility, since (much like Howard Ashman before him) he's the kind of songwriter that gives feedback and suggestions to the story while it's being written. Julia Michaels seemed like a terrible choice (because it absolutely was), but I can kind of see the logic from an executive's point of view: you want more Billboard Hot 100 hits like Let It Go and viral Tiktok music like We Don't Talk About Bruno, so you hire someone who's written Billboard Hot 100 hits/Tiktok dance music AND is willing to work on a tight deadline. If you get her to write enough catchy hooks, odds are SOMETHING is gonna stick in the audience's heads, right? Right?

[@geministrial950]

@@carolkoski4875 To be fair, looking at Little Mermaid and the leaks from the Mufasa movie, it's clear LMM is starting to get burnout

[@MissJasmine305]

I figured it was because LMM was working on other projects at the time like Encanto and then The Little Mermaid live action remake. And Alan Menken was also working on TLM remake. I'm not sure what else they were up to during Wish's 5(?) year production but they most likely didn't have the time to work on it. Also, they both probably would've wanted to be more involved with the story or at least know as much as they possibly could about it to write the music for it. And well... with all the constant changes being made to it, LMM and Menken might've ended up jumping ship.

[@ChelCM03]

Imagine being one half of the dynamic duo that basically saved the entire animation department back in the 80s-90s with a film called The Little Mermaid and the company you helped saved DOESNT ask you to help out with their most important film of the century 🫠

[@NameGKal]

Very simple. Because with all these live-action remakes Disney doesn't give A FUCK about their animation.

[@Ryzard]

How have I not seen an "*I DECIDE* the rate at which lobsters die!" Meme?

[@papermr.magolorguy7957]

@@Ryzard Tmestamp please friend 🙏 it sounds so funny

[@Ryzard]

@@papermr.magolorguy7957 unfortunately it was not in the video, I was just surprised that they didn't think to make it! May need to myself lol

[@Portal2LabRat]

my dad walked by as i was watching the part about magnifico's song and when he heard "it feels like a middle-aged man rubbing his hands together and laughing" he started cackling maniacally and yelling about how evil he was

[@wolfranger5526]

Dad move

[@crealiv]

as someone who recently binged starkid's hatchetfield trilogy, I can confidently say that making good musical is possible regardless of what kind of company you are, its just a matter of making the right choices and sticking to them. I also find it kinda fucking astonishing that between a multi billion dollar conglomerate with years of experience in musical theatre and an indie theatre company that started out making harry potter parodies, the latter was the one that made the better quality musical that came out in late 2023 (NPMD)

[@emofurryboyfriendasmr]

i mean , hell!!! even starkids Twisted was better than an official Disney production

[@zesty6781]

NPMD MY BELOVED!!!

[@AYWYC]

disney's next villain needs to take notes from the lords in black

[@crealiv]

@@AYWYC for realllll omg

[@fatalselene9029]

i roar and you cry

[@seb_bee]

the modern adorkable should be like scott pilgrim characters. very awkward but entertaining and relatable, even in moments that matter so their personalities are cohesive.

[@TeethSkylark]

00:40 it's literally called program music. That's why the introduction is done that way. The tradition of European Classical music had that as composers pushed the bounds of instrumental music in trying to paint literal images without using words

[@SaberNezumi]

The fact that they deemed the music good enough to be used in the film baffles me. Especially when I think back to the Frozen II documentary and how much they struggled to nail down the right voices and angles, there's a whole section dedicated to all the versions Show Yourself went through. And regardless of one's opinion of that film, the songs are decent.

[@fadedyellowmm581]

you know, i was just thinking as i listened to the sounds of the songs themselves that the "Knowing What I Know Now" feels more like a villain song in tone, tempo and lyrics than "This is the Thanks I Get". It's dark, heavy, has bassy percussion and an insistent, scheming feel. Musical Freudian slip?

[@AluminumFusion22]

I think Disney's complacency falls purely on stagnation due to success. In the early-to-mid 2000s, Disney was struggling because 2D animation was on its way out and 3D animation was becoming more and more viable thanks to DreamWorks and Pixar. Films like Atlantis: The Lost Empire and Treasure Planet got good reviews but failed financially, Disney was looking to other avenues of revenue while they were working out how to bounce back, one of which was video games. Their Japanese branch was situated in the same building as Squaresoft, and after an elevator pitch, kickstarted a series of games still running to this day. But the funny thing is, Disney invested in the experiment because of how desperate they were for money. They were still cautious in case Kingdom Hearts flopped though, and that's why Mickey barely shows up in the first game. The hard truth is, Disney would NEVER greenlight Kingdom Hearts in 2024.

[@gothicMCRgirl]

There’s a reason this quote is a thing: “necessity is the mother of invention”. When you become complacent, that’s when true stagnation and failure rears its head. Great things can come when you experiment with something new, but unfortunately it seems modern Disney can’t grasp that. They’re scared shitless of new things, it seems.

[@IcyDiamond]

It’s sad that their modern desperation just leads to “Make Toy Story 5 and Frozen 3.”

[@juliannafranchini7975]

My pet theory is that Disney absolutely wanted to continue hiring successful Broadway songwriters, but the problem is that right now, the big thing is Hadestown. I can just picture some Disney executive inviting Anais Mitchell to a very nice lunch at a very nice Manhattan restaurant where they pitched an idea for the next family friendly Disney musical hit to the person who wrote Global Warming And The Horrors Of Poverty According To Greek Mythology: The Musical, and she laughed at them and said “no”

[@OpticalSorcerer]

Consider this: the Anderson-Lopez team who made the music for "Coco" and "Frozen" was supposed to do the music for "Gigantic," a Disney film inspired by "Jack and the Beanstalk" SET IN SPAIN. The film was cancelled...but they never got moved onto "Wish"? I think Disney screwed Julia over anyway, but still!

[@AmbrosiaBriefs]

I think the animal sidekick trope was also a way for Disney characters to have a support system but still be independently driven in their respective journeys. Alot of the Disney classics begin with their protagonist isolated in one way or another; Their support system (family, friends, etc.) may not be able to follow them on their journey, actively ignore or discourage the protagonist wants/needs, or just doesn't exist at all. (Think Hercules, Little Mermaid, Aladdin) An animal sidekick gives that unwavering loyalty and love a pet has while also being personified enough through the animation or voice acting for the protagonist to banter with before they gain other companions. However the sidekicks remain dependent on the main character, so they still have to find their own solutions to problems. The goat feels redundant not only because of the star fitting the role better, but because Asha never fully loses her support system. I agree with what you said about why the star works but the goat doesn't. At some point it occurred to me, "Hey, wouldn't it be neat if the unfunny goat scenes were replaced by one of the 7 friends helping her to flesh out both them as characters beyond the dwarf they represent and their bonds with Asha?" I mean you can get rid of 5/7 friends and nothing is lost. I seriously think they only wrote two friends initially and the 7 dwarfs thing was a reference shoe horned in out of obligation, not unlike the terrible, terrible goat.

[@kipi8497]

when it cut to the outro and you suddenly had a beard i got scared because i thought you had been replaced by an entirely different man. i have the mind of a very small baby.

[@sean5343]

this reminds me of the time where i was trapped in a disney movie

[@maxwellgreenee]

Please drop new hamburger review pleaaaaaeeese🙏🏻

[@sean5343]

@@maxwellgreenee only if you feature in it

[@maxwellgreenee]

I’d be honored

[@tiamystic]

Some shit Peter would say to lead to a Family Guy cutaway

[@metallicmikus]

encanto wouldn’t have been as successful without lin manuel miranda, hate that man all you want, but he EATS!!!!

[@productivitycornerofjess2871]

exactly! Wish they had him write the songs for wish

[@papermr.magolorguy7957]

Star Boy would be so cool as a Disney Prince! I hope to dress up for him (or rather his concept art) for Halloween!! ❤️

[@reyrapids63]

The reason "The Family Madrigal" works while "Welcome to Rosas" doesn't, is because its sung in-character by a character who has a personality. Mirabel is giving exposition about her family and the setting, but she is also acting as the hype-man for the Madrigals, almost like a brand ambassador. She reveals each character's super power, and the kids keep asking what her power is, and she keeps deflecting and diverting praise back to her family. Almost like she is shoving down her own feelings to be a good member of the family and trying too hard to be supportive. Even "We don't talk about bruno" shows the supporting casts personality, with Dolores being secretive and gossipy, Camilo being over the top and dramatic, Felix only caring about Pepa and Pepa only focusing on herself. Songs need to be sung BY a character, not by the writers.

[@rainydayjules]

The closest I can think of explaining the “thank you, I feel seen” joke is that the goat appreciates another non-clothes wearing creature wearing clothes? Which could maybe make sense if the star was another animal? It really doesn’t land

[@launderine]

i was 100% sure you had already made a video about this. glad to be proven wrong!

[@necronival]

As a fan of broadway musicals, it pisses me off to no end how horribly Hollywood has treated musicals recently. With Disney hiring pop writers for their musicals, to Wonka intentionally hiding that they're a musical in their marketing because 'Modern audience reacts badly to musical movies'. I'm just done.

[@Akitsunesceilingfan]

Ughhh even hearing a SECOND of that “you’re a star!” song makes my will to live SHRIVEL. I’m glad you knocked that “it’s so bad it’s ai” idea. It always seemed like an odd half-joke that was unaware of its implications.

[@dancingsun2]

I think the best thing to come out of Wish, is all the 'rewriting/redesigning' works artists have been making that shows how much better Wish could have been if Disney....actually cared.

[@_void8982]

Wish is like they remember last minute that their 100 years was coming up and they had to scramble to create a "masterpiece". Like a rush project in school after procrastinating too long. I think that if they really started earlier it would have been so much better.

[@anneofcleveswithinternet]

Disney probably forgot that Alan menken is still alive

[@lagoonmermaid]

21:53 and there's this unexplained idea that maybe.... your wish is part of your soul... but like. It's never fully explained or explored. And its the most interesting idea the film has.

[@torytellstales]

Remember that one scene from "The Lego Movie" where Bad Cop is interrogating Emmet by saying he believes him too while doing sarcastic quotations with his claw hands then proceeding to tell Emmet "You see the quotations I'm making with my claw hands? It means I DON'T believe you!" That's what it feels like Asha is doing when she keeps verbally telling the audience things instead of showing us, like we're stupid and won't get it the first time.

[@miarj1829]

i dont mean this in a bad way but genuinely i love when you show up with a long ass video months late to the topic..... mean girls now this.... i get to relive the whole thing

[@lynnnbagels5549]

4 minutes in and we're swinging at bolt, i see how it is, okay, okay

[@idontneedachannelthanksyou7292]

I loved that movie but probably only because I was a child (I’ll still probably defend it if someone comes out to say it’s garbage because it’s probably not)

[@Schnort]

I was genuinely surpised by this. Do people consider it a bad movie?? I like it a lot. I guess I've never watched it critically, more for simple enjoyment. (Yes, I can only do one at a time. I have a small brain.)

[@ggrarl]

​@@Schnort I remember seeing a video that "Bolt" is a brilliant critique on how Hollywood works (i.e. it sucks)

[@joweechao]

and also The Rescuers slander??

[@kaykeunil]

@@SchnortI wouldn’t say Bolt is good but it’s enjoyable, if that makes sense. Things don’t have to be technically good to be likable. But also, a movie that is “bad” in a funny way is much easier to watch than a movie that is “bad” in a fundamental way that ruins even ironic enjoyment. My family loves stuff that is stupid and silly even if the level of artistry or music isn’t 100% on point, but even they couldn’t find a way to liked Wish bc it’s not silly, it just sucks in a depressing way.

[@mayredfern4593]

Max, I beg you make a whole video about Bambi because none of my friends understand it and think its boring

[@jennaberry2]

I can't believe the same company that put out Be Prepared and Hellfire made This is the Thanks I Get

[@PinoccThePiccolo]

I got so unnecessarily excited when you mentioned Skid Row, I love that song.

[@skunkjo3195]

I'm so YT brain rotted everytime I see your 'they might be giants' poster I think 'there make be snakes'

[@lionblaze0384]

I’m so happy there make be snakes isn’t JUST living rent free in my brain only and that there is a chance when I quote it someone will know wtf I’m talking about

[@ClearCubess]

A veritable dervish!

[@elinhowells1661]

The thing that annoys me most is that there's the hint of a really interesting movie there. Maginifco saying that there would be chaos if everyone just got their wishes, which is true, they could have done a really interesting and poignant tale about how no one can really take your wish away from you and sometime you need to be the magic in the world. But they totally bungled it. You can steal peoples wishes, you just need to free them.

[@Yipper64]

It would be interesting of Magnifico had some kind of backstory where maybe Magnifico is able to grant wishes, as a teen he did so freely, granting everyone's wishes, but one day he granted the wrong wish and it caused his kingdom to be destroyed, as everything went out of control. He managed to make it out alive to start a new kingdom, but from then on he vowed to never lose control again. Leading to him becoming something of a dictator. But then by the end of the movie people kind of make their own magic to overthrow Magnifico as he went too far in the other direction. Something like that im not a writer.

[@WobblesandBean]

The live action remakes and Frozen 2 taught Disney that they don't have to try. And so they stopped trying.

[@belindaluna2067]

That's been a lesson learned since the direct to video remakes over a decade ago.

[@saiyamoru]

The saddest part is that you KNOW that there was a better movie buried in there somewhere. The burnt tapestry that is NEVER EXPLAINED says to me that there was so much more of Magnifico's backstory to uncover and they just completely threw that out, but aLSO didn't have the capacity to change that scene before release, which...is a really bad indicator of what things were like behind the scenes of this film.

[@eldritchmaxwell2545]

"..and it's had some absolute stinkers" whilst showing one of my favourates hurt to see.

[@ohshit4860]

Yeah, rescuers didnt deserve that!

[@pacnat_9069]

“Name three new characters from Frozen 2” Uhhhmm the lizard… “Go on I’ll wait” “THE LIZARD??” I genuinely could not get “the lizard” out of my head omg 😭

[@introverted_unicorn]

Omg i forgot about the lizard. My mind went to the bridge people? the 1 soldier guy, the 1 other guy, the leaves & the big giants...or where they trolls?🤔

[@mynym4543]

Magnifico feels like a character created by patching together at least three separate character with completely different roles in the story (mentor/sympathetic villain/pure evil villain)

[@jaredwonnacott9732]

Dude, you mentioned the girl (Asha?) struggling to justify that her wishes weren't selfish, and I was suddenly struck with how awesome it would have been if the surprising twist at the end had been her granting a bunch of wishes, seeing the horrors that follow, and Magnifico saves the day, proving that everyone getting everything they want all the time isn't actually a beautiful thing and his efforts to protect the kingdom from rampant wishes was not only well intended, but actually the right thing to do.

[@BlazingKhioneus]

The raspy "this is the thanks i get" at the end of the song is as laughable an attempt to give the villain song a bite to it as when i had a Gallade oc i inverted the colors on and to make him LOOK scarier, i just splashed his mask with blood. It doesnt do anything with the rest of the composition and acts only as a last minute "oh, crap, right. Need to make it evilerererererer"

[@ThePonderer]

10:38 I know everybody loves to shot on the Gargoyles, but they’re a worthy example of what you’re talking about. They make sense- they’re literally part of the architecture, and they’re functional because they give Quasimodo a sounding board and voice of confidence. They blow the Goat out of the water.

[@mariatorres-by6du]

"I'm a star" has a point, a very important point that you need to understand the ending, it introduces the idea that every one is a stard, so in the end, when the sky is block and she can't look up, she looks down at the people and wishes upon them, because they are stars. The song is done is so incompetent way that breaks the ending. (Also it doesn't need to be a song, it could be a line and it would be much cleaner)

[@Yipper64]

Its just kind of thematically all over the place. It doesnt really have a theme that asks questions. At best, its sort of narcissistic.

[@dragonetafireball]

Some films have forgotten the are of actually bothering to make rebuttal to villains argument. Like it’s fine if they’re warcrime level ore personally ended the protagonists family but “thesis, antithesis then synthesis” only works if you clearly establish both sides and the problems both have. It’s leading to people thinking the film or they should agree with villains because the villains are often the only ones to bother communicating there worldview

[@TheaDoraRosa]

Rapunzel's sidekick even killed the villain

[@zachanikwano]

15:55 *You talking about how we learn nothing through the opening number* Me: man skid row was a good opener, establishes the setting, how terrible it is, two of the main characters and their struggles and desires... You: skid row is a great opener Me: 😱 But for real, howard ashman and alan menken, absolute legends

[@Laully]

9:25 I liked the goat when he was just a normal goat making cute little goat noises. Shoulda stayed that way.

[@ripphunter8872]

"This total Melvin"

[@Aphelia.]

I'm living away from home for the first time and I was really scared of being alone in a stranger dorm room, but your video's cozy vibes made me feel a lot better. Thank you

[@mavi3147]

Star works because he’s basically a Luma, and lumas are a great and cute design

[@v0n12z]

it will never not amaze me how non human the lyrics sound, no wonder people think its ai when you have lines that read like siri telling you the weather, the stressed syllables are all in the wrong places. you can tell how much theyre trying to emulate lin but its just embarrassing

[@gracie42069]

I had to say I also get carried away talking about Bambi!!! Not enough people appreciate that movie. It's been my favorite since I was little. ❤

[@elizabethsmith7224]

Bambi is art in every conceivable way,the art, the music, the story,everything.

[@genericbug]

Hey! Bolts my favourite movie, I watched it every day in the hospital and it saved my life!

[@gwenjackson8583]

Bolt is a wonderful movie!

[@nobodybutsomebody8147]

i feel like musicals all have this element of if you just listen to the soundtrack (how i've found my favorite musicals countless times) you can figure out the plot with no thinking, and if anyone was able to take the hour and do it they'd realize that those songs weren't musical songs, and they needed a rehaul

[@erikwilliams1562]

31:15 Honestly we know more about Magnifico than Asha and he (in the 1st 20 minutes) a much more relatable character. Then the movie remembered he was supposed to be the bad guy and had to undo it. Terribly

[@moon7shinev150]

Magnifico was honestly the most relatable character in the movie. Like the whole reason he created Rosas was to protect people due to the PTSD he was suffering. Magnifico then told the people about taking their wishes and they all gave it up willingly knowing the possibility of Magnifico granting it and if he didn't he would then protect the wishes. Which he does up until the book controls him. Magnifico even used the book in the first place as a solution to protect his people. Magnifico is the biggest victim of the movie and he's the villain

[@snuffles504]

I've never seen this movie, only heard the music, and I'm flabbergasted to find out that "At All Costs" is a duet between Magnifico and ASHA. I thought it was an origin song, a duet with his wife, where the two are promising to protect each other and, metaphorically, their beloved city of Rosas. And "I'm a Star" is a bunch of random forest animals, NOT Asha's seven dwarf friends? Those songs seemingly made no sense in their soundtrack placement, but now that I know the context...they make even LESS sense!

[@sofiamorgan3756]

There is something puzzling about the villain. Like he seems genuine in the beginning because he he tells her that he cares about his people but doesn’t explain much about his past in which I was curious about. But then he turns into a narcissist and sings about how good he is. So what are his motivations now? I guess more power but his power is consumed by evil magic when he opens to book. No too mention that the Queen read that book and I was expecting like a true love kiss but no, she just traps him.

[@Yipper64]

true loves kiss would be too heteronormative for modern disney.

[@captaintencents]

The credits also did not include Meet the Robinsons...in place of something like Home on the Range

[@ohshit4860]

Yeah D:

[@emuanon34]

Nah they were spared from this movie.

[@Yipper64]

51:58 One thing ive noticed is that LLMs tend to write in a way that is very collective and not individualistic, sort of cold and not actually having *human* characters but more sort of getting at the vague idea of characters and things.

[@Yipper64]

38:52 I have heard rumblings that this particular song was made as a love song at first and then re-contextualized. Which yes makes it literal filler.

[@juste710]

valentino is a baby goat. totally unrealistic, he would have to be bottle fed at least twice a day. and... y'know... maybe if he was, Asha would've have a more comprehensive character than 'awkward when its funny'