With a decline in California's solar power incentives, many wonder if it's still worth it

[@brooklyn0992]

They need to get rid of PG&E and Gavin NEWSOME!!

[@christophermaccarone3157]

Also getting rid of the political infrastructure including the State Legislature, Attorney General, Appellate Court Justices, and the California Coastal Commission.

[@Elizabeth-qy3zk]

Yup. PG & E have donated a great deal of $ to Newsom

[@stevesmith756]

Total corruption

[@Chewpa562]

Hey get the name right! It’s Newscum!

[@CharlieRasch]

There is no reason for electricity to be this expensive in California.

[@larryfine6865]

I’m a solar contractor. It’s over. PUC killed it. Nobody is buying solar anymore. 15 years in business over.

[@therealcnn5346]

Any business based on incentive $$$ is bull stuff! Subsidized costs everyone else

[@donaldkasper8346]

You get pitched and pitched and pitched solar and then one day the state says shove it and boom, your investment is wiped out.

[@RussellFineArt]

Sell your customers PV + battery, they still get the same 30% ITC and can still use all of the solar produced, both day and night. Cal's grid has overcapacity of renewables already, with what's on the grid now and in development/already contracted to turn on soon, during peak sunlight hours, and don't need excess on the grid, but everyone can use their solar from their battery at night.

[@donaldkasper8346]

@@RussellFineArt Battery for solar is very expensive and warrantied just 5 years. Also runs home just 6 hours. Cost is $20k.

[@turboleggy]

​@donaldkasper8346 I did the math and a 40kW generator is like 25k maybe installed. I'd see the ROI on that fast. Solar is like 100k and would take a decade to pay off.

[@richyquarter7244]

Solar is only for people who can build/install/maintain it themselves. If you don't OWN your system you have to deal with money hungry companies. And because the components got ridiculously cheap in the last decade (panels, batteries etc) there's no excuse not to be energy independent. And no, I'm NOT rich (poverty level income) and have no formal education in engineering or electricity. Yet, I run my place on 100% solar energy all year long for 14 years now.

[@JBoy340a]

Nice. We are not off grid, but with solar panels/tiles and batteries have no net electric bill for the year.

[@alexarzamendi9475]

It's easy to run solar if you live in a cuckshed on abject poverty. This reel.is oriented to real homeowners who have at least 4000sf of living space

[@donaldkasper8346]

There is plenty of excuse to be on the grid. Let us start with the $100k cost and 20 year lifespan of the system. Then lets talk about the sun moves but your roof does not, creating inefficiency. Then battery backup is $20k, warrantied 5 years, and runs for a few hours.

[@fozzir]

100% solar energy? can't do that in California. They will throw you in solar jail, lol. Everyone has to be on the grid.

[@donaldkasper8346]

Estimate for my house in CA was $90k last year. The power is 100% sold at wholesale to the grid operator that then sells it back to me at retail, or 30% more. Local battery storage is another $15k, lasts about 6 hours with 5 year warranty. No house runs on solar unless you have a large battery system.

[@jessnunez7556]

Do not blame utilities. This is 100% result of CA government. Claim there’s a problem when there isn’t one. Creates a “fix” to said problem. Then the solution creates a problem and government has to fix it again.

[@celebrityrog]

There is a problem, deregulation 25 years ago did this. And solar is essentially free and utility companies don’t like it and want a cut.

[@George-f8h]

1. The commisioners are appointed by the Governor (Newsome) 2. Confirmed by the Senate (Democrats make up the majority) 3. Term Length: Commissioners serve six-year terms. From what I've researched, Gov. Newsome has been accused of being too cozy with PG&E. The company donated to Newsome's campaign and the governor set up a Wildfire Insurance Fund with taxpayer money to help the company. From what I can tell, this is politics as ususal. I scratch your back, you scratch mine.

[@lambertlum1087]

@@celebrityrog Solar is free as long as the sun is shining. As soon as the night descends, solar is useless. That Tesla needs overnight charging, and PG&E is your supplier.

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

Which utility company are you are you invested in to?

[@kerokupo]

utilities bought the cpuc workers. what are you smoking

[@weeziepuff13]

The CPUC never seems to do much to benefit consumers.

[@Paiadakine]

Exactly. When was the last time the cpuc was on the users side? They always cave in and approve rate hikes (and profit).

[@wayneparker9331]

@@PaiadakineIt’s not about approving rate hikes because the PUC is in bed with utilities. There is and has always been a great deal of animosity between the PUC and the various public utilities in California because the relationship is inherently adversarial. The problem is quite the opposite. The PUC is entirely controlled by self-described social justice warriors and Far Left Democrats. Look up the names and work histories of the five current commissioners. Same with the California Energy Commission and Air Resources Board. These three state agencies have done incredible harm to Californians and most residents don’t have a clue.

[@ridemfast7625]

@@wayneparker9331 Newsome appointed the CPUC President Alice Reynolds. The disaster known as California is on democrat voters!

[@ronaldlee3537]

@@wayneparker9331 : These Calif agencies CEC, ARB, & PUC are responsible for a good portion of the homeless/unhoused people in Calif. Those agencies wiped out high-paying, low-skilled jobs and replaced them with low-pay, low-skilled fast food, hospitality, and retail jobs. The voters got the government they voted for, and people who didn't vote added to the problem.

[@richardamick1690]

They are handpicked by newsom for their position

[@nps-ddpsavinglives]

Such A broken system thanks to governor gruesome...

[@RussellFineArt]

It's called overcapacity of solar on the grid during peak daytime hours, and no more is needed, but EVERYONE can install a battery to their solar and use the excess power their produce, at night. Gov. Newsome is FAR better than the fascists morons who run Florida and Texas!

[@ridemfast7625]

Wrong, this is ALL on the democrat voters!

[@xx133]

Capitalism existed prior to his governorship

[@ridemfast7625]

@@xx133 Why are you confused...

[@seymorefact4333]

99% of US corp are either DIRECTLY or Indirectly funded by GOVT subsidizes, tax incentives, bailouts, and govt contracts! WE ARE THE BIGGEST SOCIALIST WELFARE fake CAPITALIST ON THE GLOBE!

[@ridemfast7625]

Installed solar last year with NEM 2. The monthly grid connection fee started at $10.50. Now its $12.50 with PGE and California CPUC saying it will be $25 next year. And PGE wants $75 a month for grid connection fee. This is ALL on CPUC and Newsome appointed Alice Busching Reynolds in charge. Actually, this is ALL on the democrat voters for voting for this!! If you can, just leave California like Chevron, Tesla, HP, Oracle...

[@youtubemademecreateanewcha6965]

SpaceX, and more.

[@qwenqwen1476]

Wait til you get the electric bill in the summer if you move to texas😮

[@gund89123]

Tesla moved their HQ. Fremont is still second largest Tesla plant after Shanghai. Tesla opened a new engineering building in Palo Alto. NEM 1 was messed up. Most states pay you the price they are paying to buy electricity, but CA was paying what they were charging customers. NEM 2 actually fixed that.

[@ridemfast7625]

@@gund89123 HAHAHA Sure, and people are not leaving Cali and Cali is not in debt. Also, NEM 2 maybe another Newsome/democrat with CPUC bait and switch scam... search --> "Customers that have invested in solar under NEM 1.0 and 2.0 may be forced into a regulatory scheme that would threaten their return on investment, based on guidance from the California Public Advocates office"

[@ridemfast7625]

@@gund89123 HAHAHA And people are not leaving Cali and Cali is not in debt. NEM 2 maybe another Newsome/democrat/CPUC bait and switch scam. "Customers that have invested in solar under NEM 1.0 and 2.0 may be forced into a regulatory scheme that would threaten their return on investment, based on guidance from the California Public Advocates office"

[@macmcleod1188]

I use solar in Texas with absolutely no incentives. It has value to me for disaster recovery and I also use it to lower my air conditioning bill. Power companies are trying to strangle solar before it destroys them.

[@erictoulon5946]

While I get a credit it’s very little. I’m planning on expanding my system we have the highest rates in the country and also have incredibly dirty power. I think power is only going to become more expensive and less reliable. If people think the people running the show have competency or character they are idiots

[@donaldkasper8346]

Solar cannot destroy anyone as it only runs at full power production 6 hours a day. Utilities have to back it up 100% which costs them money.

[@macmcleod1188]

@@donaldkasper8346 Nah, solar plus batteries can cut your electricity bill in half from what it is today. I use 1/2 to 2/3 of my electricity during the day between 1pm and 7pm. I have friends with full systems and their utility bills are crazy low- even with the higher grid connection fees.

[@donaldkasper8346]

@@macmcleod1188 Sure. Bid for my house is $100k and battery for 6 hours is $20k, lien against the house to secure it. I think anyone can prepay their next 20 years power bill and have lower future bill.

[@macmcleod1188]

@@donaldkasper8346 that's insane. No one I know has paid a third that for their solar systems. That sounds like something far beyond even the Cadillac of solar systems. What you need to do is get a small $800 solar setup with a small battery pack/solar generator. That will give you a decent amount of power to keep the refrigerator and the freezer going at night or during a storm until you can set the generator up the next day. After that the battery will give you extra lighting around the house and power for small appliances like electric razors. Solar isn't at the right price point yet and utilities are doing everything they can to get laws passed so consumers can't get off the utilities. Many of them are using solar to generate power at a cost of under 5 cents per kilowatt-hour and yet they're charging the highest electrical prices ever.

[@daemoncan2364]

If you want solar in CA today, you should budget on installing in-house batteries sized & set for self-consumption only. Selling to PG&E is a losing proposition now.

[@seymorefact4333]

99% of US corp are either DIRECTLY or Indirectly funded by GOVT subsidizes, tax incentives, bailouts, and govt contracts! WE ARE THE BIGGEST SOCIALIST WELFARE fake CAPITALIST ON THE GLOBE!

[@Cordycep1]

I want to install solar for self consumption but I need a permit review by the local electric (SMUD) provider. The online permit application is asking a $900 connection fee so it confusion that I must pay connection fee but I dont intend to sell the electricity.

[@seymorefact4333]

@Cordycep1 I have 500w solar panels and 5000wh battary. I just put the panels in my backyard and connect to be battery in the garage. More than enough to power my home. Portable, too.

[@theotheleo6830]

Since the typical home battery price range is $10,000 - $19,000 (installed), and will last between 5-15 years, they do not appear to be a good option either, unless there are killer rebates available.

[@daemoncan2364]

@@theotheleo6830 ..or if your utility rate is crazy high...

[@idolmaker1]

As a homeowner and rental property owner, I have invested heavily in solar panel systems for my properties. SCE and other utilities are paying us pennies per Kilowatt hour for our excess production and then marking it up 500% to the end consumer. Then they publish statements about making electricity for everyone "equitable" All this talk about them investing in infrastructure is a way to justify these preposterous increases. SCE and PG&E have had the CPUC in their back pockets for years. The amount paid for excess production to people like myself for our investments in solar is shameful. Governor Newsom is part of this scandalous action by appointing and supporting CPUC decisions. Now with NEM 3.0 it makes no sense for anyone to do a capital outlay into solar.

[@criticalthinker3855]

That’s what happens when NEWSOME ate PG & e’s food at the laundry restaurant 😂

[@Liberalcali]

Yes and democrats that live here only see orange man bad while they get screwed by their lover boy Newsom 😂😂😂😂

[@Nl-nn3ds]

No subsidy no solar. Who would have thought? Citizens complain about paying the subsidy. Who would have thought? /

[@anooppatel6401]

This video completely ignores the reasons for changing from NEM 2 to 3. 1 to 1 credits are no longer feasible due to our own success in solar adoption.

[@JBoy340a]

we could have dropped down the credits much slower. Why 1:1 -> 4:1 all at once? Why not 1:1 -> 1.5:1 ... 2->1 with 10 years or more between each step. Solar technology is getting better each day. This would have let people benefit from their new solar purchase in 2024 and beyond much longer.

[@gregorypenetrante1272]

Show me the numbers

[@jessnunez7556]

Exactly!

[@BuhodePiedra]

No it’s due to greed and manipulative policy. They claim they make less after more people install.. but what they should be under scoring is the huge amount of reduced cost is maintenance when there are thousands of mini energy plants rather than one large centralized one, and the wholesale/retail sales of kwh that they are making a killing on! Disingenuous to say otherwise

[@jessnunez7556]

@@BuhodePiedra wrong. Utilities are forced to “buy” the excess energy regardless if they need it. Therefore making it a loss to the utilities. The prior NEM rates were more than the wholesale cost of energy. Utilities plan ahead when purchasing electricity and negotiate rates. Imagine a fast food chain being forced by government to purchase uneaten food from customers sometimes at a higher cost.

[@CJinsoo]

it’s a good thing. solar was too heavily subsidized. the outrageous NEM rates and policy (using the grid as a battery), coupled with the transfer of residential tax credits to solar providers, made it a mad rush to escape utility bills. the unavoidable grid costs are shifted to everyone else who are lower income, lower credit customers. it was the worst type of public policy-subsidizing the wealthy for something the wealthy wouldn’t do unless they had short pay back period. the chickens have come home to roost.

[@gregorypenetrante1272]

I disagree. And now the rich get rich enjoy their solar and what's left of us middle class can't even afford solar anymore. At least under the old subsidies, we had a fighting chance at obtaining solar systems. I know many clients who cancelled their solar builds after they ran the new numbers.

[@lambertlum1087]

Can we all go back to coal-fired plants? I just want cheap electricity.

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

The homeowners with lower income could always be smart enough to opt for a Power a purchase agreement which provides savings immediately.

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

@@gregorypenetrante1272Have you ever heard of a Power Purchase agreement? My customers usually have a low range 600 credit score and lower/middle income. Day 1 savings 💪

[@CJinsoo]

@@ProServSalesConsulting and/or be patient enough to live with longer payback periods. the former NEM payment rates are a great example of government responding to rent seeking interests (solar providers, and enviro. cult lobby).

[@tigerphid9677]

The fact is that non-solar utility customers have been subsidizing solar owners for decades. That is the only reason that solar exists. Because after decades of being told that solar is "cheap" or "free", we find out the truth - that solar is the most expensive form of energy and that solar and windmills are actually gutting our energy supply, not enhancing it.

[@imzjustplayin]

Rule of thumb I tell people, install should be less than $3 per watt BEFORE tax incentives and it needs to pay for itself in less than 10 years. The going rate for residential solar PV install in California I've been seeing is around $2-$2.50 per watt installed BEFORE tax incentives. Most of the costs associated with Solar PV in the USA are related to soft costs as the hardware and labor is at most a $1.5 per watt installed.

[@LWRC]

Rule of thumb - DO NOT INSTALL SOLAR AT ANY COST! It is much cheaper to pay the utility and conserve on your own and not deal with the stupidity and insanity these solar companies put you through! If you like to have your life turned upside down and have to battle the solar company at every turn - go solar. If you like to waste money with the solar companaies and spend a lot more than you spend on regular electric bill - go solar. If you like to loose sleep for months end because this is causing you much more with NO END IN SIGHT!!! - Go solar! GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO STAY THE F OUT OF PEOPLE'S BUSINESS ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ENERGY!!!

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

Very unrealistic pricing considering that the battery itself costs around $1+ per watt. 😂

[@imzjustplayin]

@@ProServSalesConsulting Battery isn't required and the pricing I was suggesting was just solar PV, not including battery.

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

@@imzjustplayin why would you refer to that pricing guide for folks in California if solar in CA doesn’t make sense without the battery? 🤮

[@imzjustplayin]

@@ProServSalesConsulting Solar PV does make sense in California w/o the battery on NEM 3.0 so long as the install cost is low enough.

[@Slide61]

Completely deceptive. In PGEs convoluted rate structure one thing stands out. The top tier is 60 cents a kilowatt hour now. CPUC is in lockstep with PGE. It won't be much longer before we are at $1 a kilowatt hour and averages power bills are north of a $1000 a month. Between power and insurance California will only be accessible to the very wealthy.

[@HomesteadEngineering]

The cost of going solar is about $15k. That is battery backed and will power most of your house. Add another $3k to power your EV.

[@jimmypoe4707]

Solar...the best way to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich

[@diegolara4202]

If solar technology was cost effective it wouldn't need to depend on incentives from the electric company and would be beneficial on its own. Think about it its benefits are dependent on thr same industry it claims to replace.

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

That’s only if you purchase the system which is entirely stupid in itself and shows lack of financial planning. A Power Purchase agreement is the way to go.

[@cgamiga]

@@ProServSalesConsulting Good god no, PPAs are HORRIBLE. They only benefit the provider, making money off you regardless... and problems w/ leases also, when you sell, or they go bankrupt, system is in limbo, or you have to buy out the lease for huge markup at the end. Just BUY it outright to start (self-finance if need), get your 30% fed tax credit, free money for decades after it does pay off (much longer now as mentioned due to horrible NEM3), but... it still makes financial sense if you have it more than 7-10yrs. Especially if you also get an EV, now fueling car is free too.

[@tabbycat8511]

So ignorant. No new tech is cost effective at first. Remember $1000 CD players? How about the first color TV, a 13” RCA tube model for $1500. That’s nearly $15,000 in todays dollars, yet many bought them.

[@conqueringlion420]

NO NO NO, Solar was always meant to be used “Off grid” that’s means do not connect to Babylons grid, you can’t win playing their game

[@boblatkey7160]

Yes, great idea! And enjoy running your generator to charge batteries every single time you have cloudy weather! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@cessealbeach]

@@boblatkey7160 gomer! I can go 5 days without any sunlight, Got storage batteries

[@phoenixrising-sv8pk]

It’s never been off grid…..

[@lonestarrk9308]

They will still vote blue. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

[@JBoy340a]

The parties do not matter. The utilities own politicians on both sides of the aisle. Money talks louder than voters.

[@hu_b]

You mean your ignorance is astounding. The top 5 states for rooftop solar are all blue.

[@palillo2006]

Exactly. They should go look at Texas! Roling blackouts in the summer, and no winterizing infractucture causing it to fail during the winter!!

[@donaldkasper8346]

Woman is complaining free subsidies did not last forever when the state is bankrupt, which is probably the entire basis for the emergency pricing adjustment.

[@Suburp212]

Just increase the cost of electricity by a factor of 3-5x and everybody will install solar and save tons on money as a result.

[@toycarpgmr]

Not true. My rental property has solar. My home does not. Solar inverter does not last long. Solar company out of business. Had to order new inverter online and find electrician to install. Houses same size. Electric bill same amount. Little to no savings.

[@wayneparker9331]

You can tell the reporters didn’t do their homework in this segment. Back in 2022, there was a proceeding before the California Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to “reform” net energy metering (NEM) tariffs. A number of parties warned the PUC that the planned NEM tariff changes, e.g., reducing compensation rates for electricity exported by home owners who had installed solar panels, charging long time solar panel owners a net benefits charge, etc., would make future installation of solar panels by other home owners far less attractive. The primary rationale for these short-sighted changes was literally “equity”. The parties seeking to change NEM (ALL Left-leaning environmental and SJW groups) justified proposed changes on the need to reduce what they called a “cost shift” impacting “poorer and nonwhite ratepayers” who had not yet installed solar panels on their homes. I kid you not that was literally what several parties submitted as justifications in the administrative proceeding. The Commission approved almost all the so-called NEM tariff reforms these groups wanted. Now the solar panel market in California is in disarray with demand substantially reduced. Given California’s higher than the norm electricity rates, one would think maybe more homeowners would opt to install solar panels. The fact that they’re not doing so speaks volumes.

[@donaldkasper8346]

1. You can put anything you want on your roof but your homeowners insurance may drop you, not want the liability of roof damage. 2. $100k lien on your property title. You sell, you have to sell the policy to the buyer or pay off the panels to the solar company.

[@teevany335]

@@donaldkasper8346 I installed 20 solar panels on my roof 6 years ago and my homeowners insurance provider didn't drop me or even raise my rates for installing it. I've also not seen any issues with my roof leaking from the installation. One needs to ensure that their roof is in good shape before installing solar over it, for sure.

[@1zamboni]

Get off the grid completely power your home solely on solar otherwise you still paying for monthly services and misc charges.

[@xxmujinscxx3516]

You would need to build your own program and install your own solar to stay off grid

[@misterchris8916]

can we use plastic straws again?

[@DarianDT]

SFO - $0.38 kwh vs Dallas - $0.14 kwh. Average Home Cost: CA - $2mil. TX - $350k Why are you still in CA?

[@EspecialDelivery]

If people now have to wait 10 years to recoup their upfront costs to install and are also penalized, then it is not a good investment. It's a financial burden.

[@jeromevonloodwig5851]

In 10 years you could spend $100k to pge ..

[@jimbochoo3316]

Don't use so much AC and you won't have a huge electric bill. Install a whole house fan to cool your house down naturally after 7pm. My electric bill isn't high and my house is over 2000 sq ft in southern California. During they day, I just use a fan to cool me down. I know everyone likes to live in comfort of AC and heating, but stop complaining about high electric rates if you live like that.

[@douglasengle2704]

Photovoltaic electricity generation is nearly worthless unless charging storage. Wholesale electricity purchased a day head in the midwest offseason is less than $0.03 kWh. That is grid quality electricity. Southern California has the most expensive grid electricity in the USA with bankrupt power grids and blackouts. It is a forced sale of solar photovoltaic electricity to the power grid from the homeowner. The power grid can not decline it. It is not steady grid quality electricity. It needs high availability of makeup electricity running at high fuel costs. There is much less saving on fuel than the percentage of renewable energy claims being used. What has taken place is a much more costly electricity for everybody when including the cost of the solar panels. Those photovoltaic panels are only marginally economically viable with large government subsidies. The wind and solar industry is now very mature. It is not going to get major steps in becoming more affordable. Nothing except chaging storage can make these sources of electricity dispatchable electricity. If they could have storage of 4 hours that would make them a fuel saving alternative, but they don't do that. With the cost of storage included in the total cost then a representative cost comparison can be made.

[@promx96]

sounds like you need to research nema laws

[@kgws2663]

Why should non-solar customers pay for those wealthy enough to install solar.

[@gregorypenetrante1272]

The fact is they are NOT. We should be thankful that solar owners are contributing back to the grid and restoring some lost capacity!

[@imzjustplayin]

Lies by the utility company. The utility companies if they had the choice would ban solar PV entirely. The utility companies argue that low usage customers are being "subsidized" by high usage customers even if they don't have Solar PV. Their funny math basically says anybody that isn't paying gobs of money to the utility company is a parasite and it's completely ridiculous. If the utility companies keep acting hostile towards Solar PV customers, many will just go off-grid and the utility companies will say "that isn't fair".

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

Less stress on the grid is a better thing. Also, you don’t need to be rich in order to go solar. You just need to be able to comprehend the options available to you.

[@Shawn_M]

I never understood this argument. If my neighbor gets solar and I don't, how does that affect my bill? I don't see how it does.

[@jpjp3873]

@@Shawn_MThe utility company has to keep their profits up somehow. Too much solar hurts their bottom line!😂

[@theentrepreneur607]

All you people who voted for green and renewables are paying the price do you think utilities will do it for free?

[@seymorefact4333]

99% of US corp are either DIRECTLY or Indirectly funded by GOVT subsidizes, tax incentives, bailouts, and govt contracts! WE ARE THE BIGGEST SOCIALIST WELFARE fake CAPITALIST ON THE GLOBE!

[@jr0079]

And Most stupid retards that push green are stupid liberal democrat voters. democrat government and voters have destroy California and America. VIVA Pro-Life TRUMP 2024

[@retalus]

You should direct your anger not to the people who want to try and save what we can of the world for the next generation but to PG&E, a for-profit utility. There is ZERO reason for PG&E to NOT be a state-owned utility as it's literally infrastructure. Moreover, the deadly fires in the North were PG&E's fault and they were found guilty of not maintaining equipment, leading to death and destruction. PG&E's response? Raise rates for all users to pay for the lawsuits while Executive compensation is in the tens of millions.

[@teevany335]

@@retalus SCE in SoCal is doing the same thing.

[@hugegoogle]

@@retalus Let's assume what you said is true for a moment, then why all Californian companies are greedier than other states'? We got the most expensive electricity and gas and many other things, why? The only explanation is the CA government!

[@RussellFineArt]

Everyone in the U.S. still receives the 30% Federal ITC for their solar system, Cal. customers just need to add a battery, which is better than net-metering anyway. Cal has an overcapacity issue from solar, pretty much every day, so their grid really doesn't need more solar on the grid in peak times, so dump the excess solar in a battery for nighttime, and you're good.

[@boblatkey7160]

That is exactly what I did and I paid cash for my equipment and took the tax credit and I never export power to the grid. I charge my batteries in the day and my batteries discharged to my household load in the evening and my payback period Is 3.5 years! Too many people crying about government handouts!

[@fozzir]

@@boblatkey7160 what size batteries do you have?

[@boblatkey7160]

@@fozzir 16 kWh

[@JBoy340a]

@@RussellFineArt Yes. We have 28 kWh of batteries. Electrical bill is only the connection fee, 10/mo. We also sell power back to PGE during those high load days. We got a 400 dollar check for doing that last year

[@tabbycat8511]

Or just use a Tesla as a battery by charging at night. The Y is now the works bestselling car, and with fed and state rebates is cheaper than many gas cars that sell well.

[@boblatkey7160]

Way too many crybabies out there! I bought my own equipment and paid cash for it, about $13,000. Me and my electrician friend installed it. I put the battery based solar system in non-export mode so I never push power to the grid and screw those guys! I am not even going to tell my electric utility what I am doing because again, I never push power into the grid. I took my 30% tax credit on the $13,000 And my solar system charges batteries all day long and then my batteries discharge in the evening to offset any power consumption that would have otherwise come from the grid. I am currently saving about $3000 per year. That is a break even point of three years!! Screw the government and screw your electric utilities and do it yourself and take your 30% tax credit because the IRS will never check on you! Stop crying about government handouts!

[@KennySmith-o1u]

By the time you start to get something back you need to replace the solar panels and your getting roof leaks from the mounts of the panels

[@homandbackyard008]

Not really. Solar panels are more lasting than you think. It will be still generating 80% after 10 years.

[@cgamiga]

@@homandbackyard008 more like 20-25years. Panels are fine. Inverters don't last as long, 10yrs, but they aren't that expensive

[@MickKaylor-u5r]

Coming from Southern California, 100% SCE, PGE, and SDGE along with the CPUC placed a big speed bump in the solar industry. However, utility rates will continue to increase and your renting your energy in essentially a lifelong agreement that you have 0 control over. Pairing solar with batteries is not cheap, agreed. If you can take advantage of the 30% tax credit for both and get your ROI in 6-10 years it is STILL WORTH IT. Even if you LEASED a system(that never increases in price) your locking in the same hopefully lower price per kWh that protects you from the utilities rate increases and archaic way of getting power to your home. Solar absolutely still makes sense, I have it on my home and will have all my money back in 6 years if utility rates do not go up and they will! Do you research, talk to an expert, choose good products and companies and you will be happy, especially 5-10 years from now when you talk with your neighbors and they mention how much they pay to the utility and your system is paid off…. Paid off power plant with battery backup? YES. Batteries will need replacement before the solar panels which is a valid argument. Choose a battery manufacturer that provides a warranty longer than your ROI for the entire system(most are 10-15 years and 3rd party warranties can go up to 20). Even if the battery fails at the time of your ROI your still producing energy from the sun right off of your roof and consuming it instantaneously during the day when you have electrical loads running. STILL A GOOD INVESTMENT. The utility is the worse option to stick with, anyone who does not agree, enjoy your increasing bill for the rest of your lives :).

[@teevany335]

100% agree

[@bridgeman11]

I had been planning on solar after a new roof. I had the new roof installed last December but it was too late after the puc changes. It doesn't work for me now.

[@theotheleo6830]

That may be a good thing. Just yesterday, I saw a few videos of poor solar installations causing damage to roofs. The guy who removes and reinstalls solar panels for roof repairs said it happens a lot. I don't know what he charges for his work, but one commenter said he was quoted $11k by the solar company that did his installation to remove and reinstall his panels.

[@who2u333]

nice story, but what are the numbers that these two sides are using to make these decisions? Hard to tell which side is 'full of it' without the details.

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

If you’ve lived in California long enough, you’d know that the grid has been overloaded for years and the focus should be on battery incentives to get people off of the grid.

[@andrewlm5677]

Not to defend PG&E exactly but the buying back grid power when they didn’t need it has always been a bit awkward. It isn’t as if they can reduce their capacity for supplying power just because, on some days, there is an excess of power produced by solar panels - they aren’t running a charity. Longer term, once there are some better options to store excess power I think PG&E could be in some trouble

[@millcamina586]

That’s what happen when you vote blue.

[@stephen9906]

Gavin Newsom has been friends with lobbyist from the energy companies since high school

[@palillo2006]

Yup. That is why the Texas grid is better. They get rolling blackouts during the hottest part if the day, and fails during the coldest winter days.

[@charlescole-p9v]

Boy, I'll second that !

[@palillo2006]

@@charlescole-p9v thanks for seconding what I said! Red destroys everything. Look at the Texas power grid. 😂

[@brooklyn0992]

@@palillo2006I live in california and my Pg&E bill is so high

[@Iconoclasher]

Incentives. Basically you create a market where the customers have to be bribed to purchase the product. If the product isn't self supporting in the free market system, then it's a drain on the economy. If you want solar, fine, but pay for it with your money!

[@gund89123]

NEM 1 was messed up. Most states pay you the price they are paying to buy electricity, but CA was paying what they were charging customers. NEM 2 actually fixed that.

[@ridemfast7625]

NEM 2 maybe another Newsome/democrat/CPUC bait and switch scam. "Customers that have invested in solar under NEM 1.0 and 2.0 may be forced into a regulatory scheme that would threaten their return on investment, based on guidance from the California Public Advocates office"

[@Moondoggy1941]

6:40 That would be Gov. Newsom, he is our favorite dictator.

[@EazySteve]

Why is PG&E allowed to operate as a for-profit company, selling electricity to the majority of homes and businesses in California, while local utilities like SMUD operate as not-for-profit entities? Shouldn't essential services like electricity prioritize affordability and reliability over profits?

[@williamlloyd3769]

Should I pay 15% more for electricity? It’s a better savings to replace my windows and roof plus replace my old furnace with heat pump. The ROI is better.

[@jaypikachu6660]

We bought a house with solar panels already installed, we have been live here for 3 years, 2 inverters been replaced and system down for 9 months of 3 years, plus cost thousand to clean the panels every year🙈

[@carlosavila7635]

I'm off grid still in california but I'm on my rural land with solar generator I'd rather live my life with out pge they just want are money go back and look how much pge charged in the 80s you will be amazed

[@demetrisrobinson4026]

And they wondering why our climate change and storms in places never happened before.. Greedy politicians and industry have been making decisions about our future..

[@gryffon5213]

Exactly! It's no wonder why PG&E voted to slash the incentives because the consumers were actually getting credits, and the poor giant company of PG&E was losing out on the money its CEOs could use to buy their third yacht

[@StarwaterCWS]

This is beyond criminal. Instead of solar we opted to conserve energy in the Central Valley where it reaches 110 during the summer. Past two years we have not used our AC and hang our clothes to dry. STILL paying a monthly average bill of $100 ! For a refrigerator and LED lights and TV and small things like internet and cell phone charger. A hundred bucks is highway robbery for just those things. Funny thing is when I go to my online PGE account they say most of our energy use is spent on AC! It’s been off for two years! I suspect it can only be our refrigerator,

[@mrgylex123]

I'm a big solar advocate+installer but if we're honest with ourselves the system is not equitable. It's usually a wealthier demographic that is able to afford and invest into solar systems leaving the infrastructure burden to the rest. There is also an unfair balance of trade. Energy production via Solar on a roof does not = baseline energy generation by utilities. Fortunately, the rapid advancements of battery/storage technology will make this whole topic moot....homes will soon be able to completely disconnect from the Grid. Utilities/ISOs will really need to get their act together and be more adaptable and competitive with the crowd-sourced/micro-grids of tomorrow.

[@roger_is_red]

In California Pacific Gas and Electric doesn't give you squat for your solar generated power that you send to the grid. They sell my energy for a big profit too. Jeannine

[@anoopster]

They are totally missing the point. The NEM1/NEM2 incentives was to encourage solar adoption and more importantly drive the cost down of solar systems and installations. Guess what? They succeeded! The installed cost per kW of solar today is half of what you paid 8 years ago. Even with NEM1 8yrs ago, it barely justified the cost of solar. Everyone complaining now want to benefit from the cheaper and more reliable systems today but also get the same incentives everyone got years ago. Everyone was given ample warning when NEM2 went away--that was the sweet spot . Now you have to add batteries to match the math from 8yrs ago.

[@JOn87_STRONG]

MOVE OUT OF CALIFORNIA... PERIOD.

[@efemdesign]

in the video they said the new rates only apply to new customers. Then why is the family in the story that has had panels for 20 years have to pay the new rates? moments before in the video they said the new pricing would only affect new customers

[@Shawn_M]

They wouldn't so they were a bad example.

[@fellysmith2623]

Good eye/ear! Looks like they have a case here.

[@PelosiStockPortfolio]

It didnt really say if this was the case, but if they wanted to add more panels, they would be forced into the new rates

[@ronaldlee3537]

FYI the CPUC is a partisan political entity that is supposed to implement the governor's vision for Calif. since he appoints the commissioners.

[@lindamurphy3969]

It absolutely affects existing customers. We added an additional power wall and got put in the new lower credit plan. Modifications will decrease credits received by SCE. You ask us to go green and then price gouge us for doing it.

[@AlihaSingh]

The funniest thing about roof top solar is the geniuses putting them on old roofs. You ain't saving any money. By the time you break it's, time to replace the roof or panels.

[@MickKaylor-u5r]

Installing solar on an old roof is bad business. They can get a new roof when they go solar and write of 30% of the roof cost in the solar tax credit…..

[@junlao7489]

So we disincentivized people to go solar, while requiring no more gas cars be sold in California by 2035. I guess the politicians don’t know how much electricity an electric car really uses. So where are we going to get all of this electricity to charge up all the new electric cars in the next 10 years. The utility companies all ready ask electric car owners to not charge their cars in the middle of the day when there’s a heat wave because there’s not enough power for all the air conditioners and the current number of electric cars to be charging. California is broken!

[@Ry-lx2kl]

I live in CA with 4000w of solar on the roof. My pge bill is still $400/month for a 1500sq ft house. They won't build the power plants here, so we get our power from neighboring states at inflated prices.

[@kristinesiu]

Nobody tells you about the True Up. Getting solar was a big mistake.

[@fozzir]

Batteries make the solar installation a lifetime investment and not worth it because you have to replace those 25K battery packs every 10 years or less. As soon as you pay off your first set of 25k batteries your next set will be due, the payments start a new and the cycle continues.

[@alexchou4945]

Those residential solar owners have been had a free ride for years on using the grid. Stop whining.

[@4g63t8]

Democrats love corporations

[@frankcoffey]

The last shoe has not even dropped yet. Anyone who believes they can keep savings is a fool. There is an army of people trying to figure out how to take it from you.

[@truthalonetriumphs6572]

Just pay a fair price for the electricity back fed into the grid

[@Oscar_Von_Doom]

Get Newsom out ASAP California!!!!

[@Sean-C]

wait until he is the president of the US. 8 years of Newsom!

[@ssuwandi3240]

The insurance coverage is defect if not covering the risk of non subsidies.

[@jasonsmith1143]

was told by realtor that you must buy or lease solar when purchasing a New home. don't know if this is true or false

[@e5b7-wr811ouhih]

You think the solar incentive would've stayed under a different governor? What do you think happens when too many folks install solar panels to the point where we have a surplus everyday, which is the case now.

[@commonsenseisntcommon1776]

Never

[@trolleymctrollsen]

Incentives are meant to persuade you to get the product. With the growth of solar over the years, y’all still expect incentives to be permanent? You’re still using renewable energy and that itself is a reward in the long run.

[@KbB-kz9qp]

Electricity is a time-based commodity market. A KWh going back to the grid at noon simply is worth as much as a KWh going to the customer at 5:00 pm.

[@TheAnonymous916]

Same situation on EV’s. CA push hard for EV’s, but now want to punish the same drivers by charging 3 cents per mile driven, now that CA no longer gets tax monies from gas stations. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@imzjustplayin]

Mileage tax is stupid. Either put the tax on the vehicle registration based upon GVWR or just have it come out of the general fund. Gas taxes aren't even used towards roads but directly into the general fund anyway.

[@shelbynamels7948]

@@imzjustplayin i have no problem paying only for the road i use based on how much gas i use to travel that distance.

[@shelbynamels7948]

that was something that could have been and in fact has been foreseen by some from the very start. the problem takes on even bigger dimensions when we are talking about EV trucks. They have to file and pay roadtax for every state they travel thru based on how many miles they travelled and how much fuel they bought.

[@imzjustplayin]

@@shelbynamels7948 Yes but with the transition to EV and low fuel consumption cars, it creates revenue issues for road work. Fuel taxes don't even go to repairing the roads anyway.

[@ChicagoBob123]

If California had to build more power plants isn't that more costly and time consuming than subsidizing solar? Also why isnt there a net savings from not having to add cost because of solar

[@theotheleo6830]

Calif's solar is over capacity and it's caused problems. It's shifted the peak-demand load to sunset and mid-evening when everyone is at home. So households that are on time-of-use are now forced to pay higher rates than before when the peak-demand took place while they were away at work. Calif doesn't need more solar.

[@vv-cv6ud]

Every month you may get a small bill ( small happiness) in nem2 , and in the end of year you get big bill ( total solar charge) . Total rip off

[@williameason1194]

The systems being pushed in California are priced double for double the output needed and pretending the cost of electricity has risen historically at 20% per year and will continue to do so forever. They are offering these systems with 25 year mortgages. Our house is 600 Sq ft living space, modern, well insulated, all electric with mini split heating/cooling, Marvin windows, launder cold water only, everything lighting is LED, run our dishwasher every other night after 9 pm. We drive a Prius for crying out loud. Haven't we suffered enough?] The payment for the "no money down" system will start at about $200 per month, going to about double that over the 25 years leaving you with a worn out system you have paid 90 grand for. I am 78 years old. If they can promise me good health for the next 50 years, enjoying KZbin and the price is right, I'll do it.

[@natechave2825]

Had Sunrun over last week. They told me they are now just a provider and will charge me .18kw when all I pay right now with Edison is .20c 😂. I was like no thank you

[@Moondoggy1941]

When I drive around where I live they are building new home everywhere, most of themes have solar, the funny thing is more than half of those homes the panels face the wrong way, but they did get to check off that they have solar.

[@imzjustplayin]

Panels are so cheap that it doesn't really matter too much which direction you install them. Yes there are ideal angles and azimuth but it's better to have something than to have nothing. The current approach to solar is wrong. They need to be installing as much solar PV as possible at the lowest cost per watt as possible and if there is excess capacity, shut or shunt the power only for as long as necessary.

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

That’s because the requirement for all new residential structures in CA. The builders don’t place those panels with your best interest in mind. 😂

[@mattwatson4730]

NREL reports all in cots of residential Solar at $3/watt. Industrial size solar farms are 1/3rd the price $1/watt. Why pay three times as much for something. Yes the subsidies are ridiculous and raise overall grid costs. See CA and ZtX for more details.

[@imzjustplayin]

The reason is because the consumer gets that benefit directly. Residential Solar PV is coming down in costs but it's still far higher here in the USA than it is in Europe. The biggest benefit with residential solar PV is not having to procure land nor having to increase transmission capacity.

[@TF-2q1]

Green energy needs to pay too coz its intermittency needs to boost reliability by backup capacity. Solar is the worst investment . On top, research on homes on market when you have solar vs when you don't. It takes 3 times longer to sell a home with solar panels.

[@Troy-nc5br]

On the low end it would cost $75,000 to install solar and I would only get incentives in the 4-Digit mark no way would I spend $75,000 Mexico home cost 10k installed I'm transitioning to Mexico because of economic reasons

[@timothykeith1367]

Solar owners should be able to share excess electricity with neighbors

[@reid1boys]

The argument that non solar users are subsidizing solar users is garbage. Your bills continue to go up, because I am not using the grid for my power? Thats like saying gas prices are going up because I use a bike to get to work. Even if it is true, too bad. You are paying for you. My investment is paying for me.

[@teevany335]

Right, it's just their excuse. Solar reduces the strain on the grid and produces energy to utility companies at a very low cost that they use for non-solar customers. The fact that they overcharge them for it is their greed for profits. Just look at how high the profits are each year for utility companies which essentially have a monopoly on their customers.

[@Chainyanker007]

@@teevany335- You do know that utilities are governed by a public utilities board. Profits are capped at around 10-12%. Much of the money they make goes back into expanding the grid, maintenance, developing new energy sources, etc. and of course dividends to stockholders.

[@larrygratz7695]

I wonder if the new income based ectric rates affect solar purchasers as well.

[@GreggK6EGG]

Selling and buying from solar should be one for one... I'm lucky im on NEM 1.0, zero chance i would buy it these days...

[@Shawn_M]

I could accept reducing the amount they pay us for excess power. Like from retail to wholesale. But they slashed it with NEM 3. If the goal is to go renewable that's taking 5 steps backwards

[@GreggK6EGG]

Why would you accept them reducing the amount they pay us for excess power? The power companies make the power for much much less then we can ever make it.. Get rid of that tax incentives instead.... Free market it.

[@fozzir]

You and millions of other people feel the same way. Solar is DEAD in California. In fact probably the most anti-green state in the Union from a consumer perspective.

[@gund89123]

Solar panels are not financially viable without government subsidies. Very few will buy EV if they don’t have free charging at work (businesses will deduct that in taxes) and government subsidies.

[@btk1243]

Unintentionally deceptive report. Let me explain . . . There are 2 entities regarding solar power. 1) The industry representing home solar installers, that wants to continue putting solar panels on homes, with home owners taking out loans to finance the solar panels, and paying them off over decades 2) The group that wants to build industrial level solar farms in the desert, that along with wind and battery storage will replace all natural gas power plants . . . There is an argument that the "industrial" production of energy via solar, wind, and battery storage will "far exceed" the energy production of putting solar on individual homes. So why invest millions of dollars to 'subsidize' the home solar industry, when it's not going to benefit the majority of California homeowners (just the handful of wealthy individuals who put solar on their homes) . . . I believe the PUC took that stance. There is a much bigger upside to the industrial production of energy (and if you follow someone like Tony Seba, he suggests that ultimately grid level battery storage technology will offset the need to create an infinite amount of solar generation) . . . Some of the people in this report represent the traditional "home solar installation" industry (and the financing industry connected to it), and many companies will go out of business as the industry shifts from home based solar to industrial level energy production . . . Thus, when I say the report is "unintentionally deceptive," I'm saying that it doesn't clearly distinguish between the "2 sides" (home solar vs industrial solar) - They are 2 competing ecosystems, and if industrial solar wins out (as PUC is betting on) it will deplete the home solar industry from what it was 5 years ago . . . The good news is that if solar, wind, battery can produce at projected levels, everyone's energy bill will drop significantly over the next 10 years.

[@LWRC]

That's never going to happen! Solar and wind power generation is going nowhere and isn't going to offset the fossil fuel industry anytime in the near future. The energy density of fossil fuels is too great for any batteries or solar panels to offset that easily!

[@btk1243]

@@LWRC Thanks for the comment. What I would suggest that you are missing in your analysis is the economic concept that the "cheapest" energy source wins. Twenty years ago, coal companies claimed they were "essential," but the natural gas companies cleaned house, because a natural gas plant is cheaper to operate than a coal plant . . . Similarly, solar, wind, and battery storage is much cheaper to operate than natural gas. The price of solar cells and of battery storage continue to plummet . . . It's not a coincidence that the government of Saudi Arabia is investing billions of dollars in solar, wind, and battery storage technologies. They see the writing on the wall.

[@LWRC]

@@btk1243 Of course. But you fail to realize that using fossil fuels to convert into electrical energy, transporting it across the grid, then putting it into batteries and then using electric motors to convert that energy into mechanical energy is NOT cheap nor efficient! People and governments are doing this for one reason and one reason along - to make money! End to end energy analysis - there is no savings. It actually costs more! Batteries will not approach the energy density of diesel fuel anytime soon. Until then, you can play around with your battery cars all you want but don't have governments shove this nonsense down our throats as we do not want it. Now tell us how you plan to violate the laws of thermodynamics!

[@lambertlum1087]

@@btk1243 If the writing is on the wall, then why are we adding subsidies to favor one side or another? The market will facilitate new technologies according to their economic efficiencies, without the need for government intervention. If solar fails in the market without government subsidies, then so be it.

[@ProServSalesConsulting]

You don’t need to be wealthy in order to go solar. If you have at least a 600+ credit score then you can get a power purchase agreement.

[@deanhenthorn1890]

Store your own solar energy and invest in private off grid capabilities. Learn to collect, use and store individually. Utility companies will scream for the lost consumer financial value during rolling blackouts. It’s California, they always have power interruptions.

[@veritas3179]

Newsome is the boss of the PUC. Democrats in CA is out of control.

[@truthjunkie3]

Train wreck report. Doesn’t explain either side. New rules were needed because too much power generated when it’s not needed. New rules are meant to encourage batteries. Little to no mention nor explanation about it.

[@Chainyanker007]

Problem is while battery prices are going down, they are still too high for most people to also get reasonable payback period. As a senior it makes no financial sense for me. Need to trash NEM 3.0 real soon, we citizens got politically screwed. Smarter politicians need to step forward and change things, fast.

[@DemPilafian]

Utility scale solar, wind, and storage are the real green solutions. Residential rooftop solar is less about "going green" and more about politics and independence. If you want to go "off-the-grid", do it. However, small piecemeal personally owned solar panels are difficult to centrally manage and integrate into the grid. If you really care about the environment, switch to an EV, swap out gas appliances, and invest in clean energy companies.

[@BuhodePiedra]

Yeah the policy goes against our goals. A place like Germany is well over 30% solar already due to friendly policy. We just can’t help but extort ourselves.. even when it goes against it stated goals of carbon neutrality!

[@josevelez7539]

Crooks! All energy companies (whether electric, gas or otherwise) are just a bunch of crooks.

[@Chainyanker007]

You mean like Trump?

[@silverandblack9242]

not to mention all the bad solar contractors that lied to customers and screwed them over

[@d3mona]

I knew there was maintenance need to be done on the solor cells and can be unreliable. 3:35

[@Shawn_M]

No maintenance on solar cells. They always produce and last at least 20 years. It's the electronics that convert DC to AC and connect to the grid.

[@daninspires]

The Utilities sold bonds against future production. The Utilities needs to pay off the bonds. And Utilities don't pay anything. Ratepayers do! Plain and simple.

[@lancebeare8314]

Simply do a solar PPA and you’ll get batteries to store power with $0 out of pocket and save 40+% LESS than what PH&E charges. These are the facts, this sounds like a piece paid for by PG&E to “try” and slow down solar. Solar is booming.

[@robbamford4134]

PUC clearly supports utilities over consumers.

[@timco5387]

Yes, cutting back on taxpayer/ratepayer subsidy is very un-California.

[@commonsenseisntcommon1776]

With the decline in Commiefornia period….. why stay?

[@boblatkey7160]

We are still the fifth largest economy on planet earth and we subsidize the Republican states who can't even pay their own bills. Enjoy your Fox News programming you brainwashed bozo!

[@Chainyanker007]

The great weather, great schools, great amenities like restaurants, entertainment venues, beaches, mountains, skiiing, etc. why do you think real estate prices are astronomical and keep going up, up, up? Maybe buyers know something you don’t, you think.

[@boblatkey7160]

@@Chainyanker007 California is one of the best places to live on planet earth! I love it here! Everybody in my town is friendly and good looking and intelligent and all my friends have great jobs and beautiful houses and good looking kids and if I lost my job tomorrow I would have a new job next week. I'm camping and riding my motorcycle in the mountains this weekend and next weekend I'll be hanging at the beach. Eating tacos in the sand.

[@commonsenseisntcommon1776]

@@Chainyanker007 -I lived in San Diego for 25 yrs, I know all about it, but the prices, open botdfers, taxes and giving illegals everything on our dime was the breaking point! The negatives outweigh the benefits, now I live in America where i have my rights!

[@commonsenseisntcommon1776]

@@boblatkey7160 -Good luck paying for illegals with high crime and woke politics....it's all yours

[@RyanJohnson-pz4tb]

its not worth it unless you electric bill is over $500 a month

[@imzjustplayin]

Not true in the slightest. The biggest factor is the cost per watt install and whether the system will pay for itself prior to you moving out. Rule of thumb I tell people, install should be less than $3 per watt BEFORE tax incentives and it needs to pay for itself in less than 10 years. The going rate for residential solar PV install in California I've been seeing is around $2-$2.50 per watt installed BEFORE tax incentives. Most of the costs associated with Solar PV in the USA are related to soft costs as the hardware and labor is at most a $1.5 per watt installed.

[@RyanJohnson-pz4tb]

@@imzjustplayin numbers don't make since electric bill is $100 a month $18,000 plus for solar panels. Solar panels last 25-30 years and the gov doesn't allow you to sale back power.

[@imzjustplayin]

@@RyanJohnson-pz4tb Your numbers are wrong. You say the government doesn't allow you to sell back power, that depends on the electric utility. In my area, excess production exceeding usage is paid between $0.08-$0.10 per kwh. They have retail energy credits which is if the customer uses 1000KWH per month and they feed into the grid 1000KWH per month, they'll be credited and after the minimum monthly charge, be effectively zero'd out. Now if the customer only uses 100KWH and they feed 1000KWH, they'll only get retail credit on the first 100KWH and they'll get baseload rates on the 900KWH they feed into the grid. NEM3 is more dynamic where pricing is on a 15 minute basis so electricity produced during April at 12pm is worth far less than electricity produced at 8PM in October during a heat wave which is why the push for batteries. Again, as I said before, if the system doesn't pay for itself within 10 years, I don't recommend Solar.

[@RyanJohnson-pz4tb]

@@imzjustplayin math don't math for me dude maybe for homes that are 2500 sqf or more with no natural gas lines. Titan solar the countries largest solar company just went out of business on June 16 2024.

[@imzjustplayin]

@@RyanJohnson-pz4tb I know people with 1000sqft houses that have electric bills exceeding $500 per month. As I said before, if the system doesn't pay for itself within 10 years, don't bother. You keep throwing numbers around and I'm saying they're completely meaningless. It doesn't matter if your electric bill is $30 per month or $1000 per month, if the system pays for itself in less than 10 years, it's an acceptable deal and if it pays for itself in 5 years, it's a great deal. You need to understand that the cost of the system install in relation to your electric bill is the only thing that matters as the math can pencil out pretty easily especially if you use solar calculation software which factors in insolation, utility rate schedules, installation costs, tax credits, etc.

[@trondialsingh594]

Utilities lose money on every solar panel. If people don't buy electricity from them, how would they survive