With an Engine Failure is an airport REALLY Worth the Risk- V35B N2UZ

[@johnwise497]

I had the exact same thing happen to me on September 23,2023 between Monroe LA and El Dorado,AR in an A 36 at 10,000 ft. Everything you said was 110% right on. The Airport is not your friend. No truer words were ever spoken when it comes to this situation . The fact that I am a tail wheel instructor who teaches gliding and off airport landings helped to save us .we lost a $420,000 airplane, but walked away with minor injuries. I tell people about this all the time Thank you, sir.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thank you for your story. I truly like hearing it!!!!!

[@johnwise497]

I’m not sure if you remember it, but we had a discussion about this in the warbirds tent at Oshkosh.

[@thomascharlton8545]

Hi Scott, Pilot was an acquaintance that Flew out of my airport. Don’t disagree: likely should’ve committed to an off-airport deal sooner. Standing by for NTSB findings. I’ve flown along with him on a couple of short flights in his Bonanza. Always enjoyed time spent talking with him. A very experienced and highly qualified aviator. Previous to owning the Bonanza he had a Cirrus SR-22 with many quality control issues. Told of previously having a night-time engine failure with the SR-22 at considerable altitude with a successful on airport landing. Was active with the local CAP. He was a super good guy and all of his friends here are crushed by this loss. Wish we could spend time with Brent again. Regards, Tom Charlton

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend. We need to talk about this stuff more to raise awareness. This is how we fly safer.

[@ChristopherPalmer-tc4ys]

You never rise to the level of the emergency. You always fall to the level of your training.

[@harryfox8028]

Glider / power pilot here. I’ve landed gliders off airports three times with no damage. Two of those were in freshly-mowed barley fields that were smoother than some paved runways I have landed on. In the glider I’ve got a glide computer with a database of airports and known landable fields, and it is constantly giving me a readout of which landing spots I have in glide but based on 2/3 of the published best glide ratio of the glider and an arrival altitude of 1500 ft AGL. That way I can fly over areas of forest and mountains while still having a big safety margin to landable airstrips. Flying power planes I usually have ForeFlight running on an iPad or iPhone as my ads-b traffic display. I also have the glide ring turned on but I know that it is wildly optimistic if set to the expected glide ratio of the airplane - it does not take arrival altitude into account and in an engine-out emergency it is unlikely I will achieve the published glide ratio. So I consider 2/3 of the glide ring distance as the best I could hope for. In hindsight, if N2UZ was 10 miles south of KCHO when the engine quit, he was probably only 3 or 4 miles away from the grass strip at Snow Hill shown on the sectional chart. An example of why one should be repeatedly thinking “what’s my best landing option NOW” while cruising along with a smooth-running engine.

[@scofab]

Once the engine goes the plane belongs to the insurance company. Your only job is to survive to collect the check, and not take out anyone else along the way. Sad and completely avoidable... RIP. Thanks again and regards.

[@joakimlindblom8256]

Another excellent video -- sorry to hear about the tragic outcome. As has been said many times, all GA pilots need to memorize the phrase "when the engine dies, the insurance company owns the airplane" and act accordingly to get the plane on the ground with your life intact.

[@rundlet172]

Great video. While practicing engine outs my instructor also drills in turning on the ELT once it's apparent that an off-airport landing is on the menu: you have a better chance of getting help if the ELT gets off a few chirps before the plane becomes un-airworthy. My 406 MHz ELT went off accidentally while I was flying Young Eagles last year; someone from search and rescue called me on my cell phone within two minutes. It's nice to know the trucks know where to roll when you put it down in that muddy field.

[@darrylr]

Kudos to my flight instructor in Australia, who on several occasions would pull simulated engine failures on me over known good landable farm strips, many not always so obvious, so a few times he'd have to point out the strip if it was near where I'd decided to head. The point was not to find an airstrip, just find a good landable field. But a known good strip let us take the forced landing all the way down to the ground. Very confidence inspiring that you can "make it". And later with lots of glider cross country time... glider landouts happen and should not be emergencies or accidents. And even though GA aircraft are not great gliders having land out experience in gliders can help. As can just some bush flying experience. Unfortunately it takes a while to get going cross country flying gliders, much more than a glider endorsement..

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

This is great insight, thanks for sharing!

[@darrylr]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Ironically just having got my PPL as a teenager I was upwind of the country town airport, high having climbed into a strong headwind, in the same area as some of those strips when the intake manifold started to come off the Cherokee I was flying. Landable fields everywhere. I misdiagnosed it as first as plug lead fowling we were getting in Australia at the time with 100LL engines. Mmm not fowling, get it pointed back to the airport and had it in easy glide while chatting on the radio with the instructor who had lots of time in that A/C. Very high and and easy glide back. Remote flight service dude was not so cool, wanted to keep talking to me and wanted me to declare an emergency. Uh "standby one".... "standby 5 minutes". We both had to tell him to STFU. I had people on the ground, and other aircraft in the pattern, airport in easy glide. Annoying flight service guy tried hassling me later on with paperwork about this, amazingly none of that paperwork ever reached me 🙂 The engine was not too rough in idle coming back but jeez on the ground once it started it was rough as heck. LAME/technician had badly overtorqued the manifold nuts. Might have been a metric-imperial mistake, he was apparently already raising concerns and was fired.

[@chuckcampbell3927]

🛫📖🛬 Very wise words, Scott.

[@damenprice3752]

Sir, those aren't cliches, those are aphorisms, and they're very useful. When the gentleman said "I hope I make the airport", it brought another one to mind. When in doubt, there is no doubt. Take what youve got, trying to stretch the glide never works out.

[@chrisg9627]

FWIW .. I taught to check the fields and turn crosswind, you are now on a left or right base. Adjust as required to make that field, or the one closer to you or the one beyond it if the origianal field does not work out. Either way ALWAYS LAND INTO WIND and at a pre-determined point.

[@mikewaterfield3599]

Dude this aircraft is based on my home field. She was at airventure last year.

[@outwiththem]

Dont dude Mr. Perdue, you poop..

[@mikewaterfield3599]

@ I don’t know her owner but I’m flying a split tail myself.

[@drlarcey]

You’re so right I asked the first thing I thought is yell Mayday get the responders coming into the area. Absolutely the controller isn’t gonna do a hell of a lot. You gotta find initial place to work with and all hopes of making some field. That’s all nice but you got five minutes man that’s it

[@garybaldwin1061]

This was a great review. I have a Comanche 250 so I'm glad you talked about speed management, conserving energy and keeping gear up until inside high key...or longer. Pulling out the prop knob also good idea. Thanks!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I am glad the video was helpful!

[@ikefork2606]

I have about 20 years experience flying in Virginia. My home airport was Manassas. There are plenty of suitable off-airport landing sites if you’re at 5,000 feet and 10 miles south of CHO. There may be one or two grass strips in the vicinity as well. I would never attempt to stretch a glide to CHO from that distance. Especially given the airport is a couple miles north of Charlottesville. Best bet is to set it down on a smooth field and call the FAA from there.

[@overhead18]

"Plenty", come on now. Maybe in Manassas or the Hampton Roads area where I fly most of the time, but not out there. Lots of hills and trees. We can disagree with the pilots decision without being silly about it.

[@ikefork2606]

Speak for yourself. I don’t need an 18-hole golf course to set down a piston single! In the Scottsville area 10 miles south of CHO there’s all kinds of suitable off-airport landing sites.

[@overhead18]

I am just speaking for the geography, I don't play golf. Where you choose to sit down your planes is your business, not mine!

[@overhead18]

I know that area really well, you are right, it is a really bad place to have this happen (not that there is a good place).

[@jeepjeffy04]

Fight like you train…Train like you fight. I’ve been waiting for this one because it happened about 20 miles from my house…and I’m looking at S35s. Such a tragedy. I originally thought he should land on HWY29 but that can have a TON of traffic but maybe a side road? The problem around here is that we don’t have a lot of fields (not like the Midwest). That’s my biggest consideration learning to fly here, there’s not many places to bail out! Any clearings you might happen to find in the woods are most likely high tension power lines. That’s the scary thing around here…if you look at google earth, sure you may find some (few) fields with 1500ish feet of clearing…but that’s pretty short for an emergency and they’re surrounded by 50+ foot trees and what you can’t see in GE is that they are almost all rolling hill fields (foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains). They’re not nice flat corn fields.

[@achillesmjb]

Actually the glide ring on Foreflight is a great indicator of wind direction so it could be very useful in my opinion. I recall thinking about losing an engine enroute between two airports. One was much closer than another yet the ring showed the further airport as attainable but not the closer one.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Yes, it does show the wind visually for you and that is a good thing.

[@BixbyConsequence]

My first instructor loved engine-out drills. On more than one occasion I was flaring and looking cows in the eye before he gave me power back. Maybe he was just crazy :)

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I bet you remember how!

[@outwiththem]

That is the best way to teach. Down to the flare. Mild Maneuvering CFI's stop the glide at 500 agl, even over a nice field. Very stupid because most stalls after engine fails happen at around 100 to 200 agl. That is when some get The Panic Pull syndrome.

[@xfirehurican]

*SEMPER FI, DO OR DIE!" sums it for this old C-117D driver.*

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I took a couple of those on RR out of Japan ages ago....

[@outwiththem]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Air America or ConAir ?

[@scottbeyer101]

I regularly consult the (Foreflight) glide ring in cruise. I regularly point out suitable fields/beaches/airports as I pass them. I try to keep a good sense for the general wind direction along my route of flight. A few times I have thought about using a more conservative glide ratio than the POH value to account for two turns. But I haven't done the math to justify what value to use in place of the POH value. Not even sure how to roughly account for that. Ideas? Another great discussion Scott. Thank you.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for watching! Take the airplane up to 7-8k’. Set best glide in idle fly 5 miles and make two turns. If that doesn’t work… reduce the fly out distance. With you can figure your glide ratio to put in the box.

[@theharbinger2573]

I am not a pilot. I’ve never flown in anything but commercial airliners. But, I am an engineer and physics is my friend and your analysis and plans of action are just what an engineer would come up with. Logical, rooted in physics and with a healthy dollop of experience. I liked your vid. Algorithm boost engaged

[@DJ99777]

Great video with many actionable lessons. Simple pilot maths at 5500’ would have him he wasn’t making that runway.

[@nhwilkinosn]

When the engine fails, you should already have a landing sight picked out. That way if it's behind you, you know it's there if there's nothing in sight in front of you

[@robertscranton8293]

Excellent Scott.. GA pilots are not willing to let all the money for their plane go: rather, they sacrifice their lives for the money..in the end.. All is Lost.

[@philalcoceli6328]

@robertscranton8293 So-Well-Said!! Your words should be printed in large letters everywhere pilots usually are and in training and on instrument panels. Ego pride is a liar, a deceiver and a killer.

[@jimmydulin928]

Good points Scott. Acceptance of engine failure on takeoff and acceptance of what is near and sure when high are critical. Do you have recent statistics on how many are high and fast to the LZ? It used to be that 70% touched down halfway through the LZ I think. I have always gone to off field somewhere in front of the wing, as you say. On my one high engine failure I had to spiral down over the road I used.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

No statistics.

[@ReflectedMiles]

09:20 I wasn't quite sure from the explanation around this point what the outcome was. Did he end up undershooting with the extra turn or overshooting with the excess speed?

[@outwiththem]

Practice forced landings down to the flare. Mild Maneuvering CFI's stop the glide at 500 agl, even over a nice field. Very stupid because most stalls after engine fails happen at around 100 to 200 agl. That is when some get The Panic Pull syndrome and stall the airplane. Add power before the flare if cant land. Stupid is if not finishing the landing if on an airport. A Mild Maneuvering CFI will make you a mild pilot.

[@IsItTrueThat]

Love your non-judgmental analysis of crashes. Question, it seems like you hear about a fair number of crashes by pilots practicing emergencies i.e. engine out on takeoff etc. What is your opinion of balancing important training vs. the risks involved in some of such training?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I talk about all the time. I even did a video on it for Engine Failure on Takeoff... I think it was EFATO how do you teach that. The Takeoff failure is the most dangerous... I decouple the turn and the landing. Practice the landing all by itself!

[@excellenceinanimation960]

He did way better than I probiably would have! So sad ):

[@harrismaynord871]

non-pilot here but have followed scott for several years. distance AGL is a key input. how does one know this at any particular time? or is the idea to make this irrelevant by looking outside and finding your landing field ASAP? I thought he started to get into this when he talked about 2500 feet, but I just didn't understand it.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Harris, thanks for watching! We fly with maps that tell us what the local elevation is. You need 2500’ to maneuver to land. So, you have to pull that out of your AGL altitude. What you have left you can use it to go somewhere. But as you said, the best thing to do is look outside and fly the plane.

[@harrismaynord871]

of course. missed the obvious. thanks.

[@alk672]

Bonanza doesn't appear to be a very easy aircraft to put down off field. 172s appear to have better outcomes, with lower weight and lower energy at touchdown. Unfortunate.

[@ReflectedMiles]

Interesting comment. Maybe it's from glider sensibilities early in life or whatever, but that aerodynamic feel of low efficiency in the air relative to being a high-performance single, needing a significant amount of energy to keep the bulk and weight aloft for any length of time, was the one downside that I never quite became happy with in Bonanza flying. The docile character of a 172 at low speed can definitely help, but so can a better glide ratio offering more options and time given the same starting place of an event.

[@karlbrundage7472]

What was his physical condition and/or mental state?

[@gawebm]

Engine failure - "I hope" - that is a plan to fail.

[@deani2431]

10 miles at 5,000 ft? No way.

[@excellenceinanimation960]

My one instructor has a saying "When something goes wrong humans do not rise to the occasion we fall to hourback on our training".

[@charleslalonde2324]

Trying to make the airport seem s to be a killer

[@wallywally8282]

Trouble is ‘saving’ the A/C becomes the important consideration, even at the cost of your own life!🤮

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

exactly!