Why I will personally fight Neil Gaiman, or: The problem with turning authors into heroes

[@heyimsasa]

be on the lookout for smear campaigns against the sources and the journalist, lila shapiro, in the coming weeks and months. i cannot stress enough how brave these people are. if there's one thing more hazardous to your reputation than blowing up a rich and influential serial predator in the entertainment industry, it's making the church of scientology look bad, and she's managed to do both in one stroke. remember lila shapiro's name, and be extremely skeptical if it suddenly turns up later this year as the target of some slimy allegation.

[@withcindy]

Very good point! Especially with the money these people have, they're going to invest a lot into changing people's perception

[@HavingFunISKEY]

@@withcindywill you be making a video on the Justin/ Blake situation? Idk who to believe

[@diarawisteria2218]

​@@HavingFunISKEYThe accusers. They've got some hard messaging evidence, multiple witnesses, and it wasn't just one person on the set creating an abusive workplace.

[@lalalabiba]

@@HavingFunISKEY I'm neutral on this situation and waiting until the cases go to trial.

[@doobat708]

this is the same journalist who properly broke the story on the joss whedon allegations, she's credible and dilligent (as her work on this article, too, shows). the fact that gaiman's response made it past his pr team and lawyers makes me hopeful that any smears are going to be doing some serious heavy lifting if they even want to make a difference in his favour at this point.

[@Zealous_Delusional]

I feel it’s always important to say that NDAs DO NOT PROTECT ILLEGAL ACTS. Do not let legal mumbo jumbo scare you. If you’ve signed an NDA and you find or suspect any criminal behavior, you are protected in reporting it to authorities and publicizing it under certain conditions. NDAs are to protect confidential information, not crimes.

[@t.h.1492]

Yes fantastic point! The writer of this article (Lila Shapiro) actually touches on the use of NDAs to bully victims into silence and how two women broke their NDAs in order to make these allegations (which, as you said, was well within their right to do)

[@bookjunk]

Good point! I wish more people knew this.

[@valencia1116]

This goes for anything you sign! You cannot sign away your fundamental rights as well.

[@SereneDancer]

Besides the fact that Neil Gaiman is a monster that should go to hell, it's so horrid how Amanda interacted with Scarlett. She knew her situation and yet sent her to him anyway. That has to be criminal as well or at least it should be.

[@withcindy]

Jail to both of them!!

[@infernas8445]

​@@withcindy I can't tell you how disappointed I was in Amanda. I'm especially sorry for her community, her music was always discussing heavy topics and sending messages of understanding towards women, always saying how people can find support in her. I used to listen to her a lot and even saw her live. But she would rather pitch her Patreon than actually act on what she preaches :(

[@missterytree]

It’s like she was trafficking for him. Sending him perfect victims. I hate them both.

[@diarawisteria2218]

​@@missterytreeIt is sex trafficking. And in the case of the financially-dependent employees, it is indentured servitude, otherwise known as slavery. There's no need to downplay that these two people operated a sex trafficking ring.

[@Ika0713]

She's clearly trafficking these women to him

[@fantasynw8091]

i went to art school and knew plenty of types like neil gaiman. men who were self-proclaimed feminist, "sensitive soft boys" who knew all the right buzzwords to seem progressive but behind the scenes were abusers, horrible to their girlfriends, etc. and their facade of being a feminist king!!1 only enabled them more. so awful and i saw it happen time and time again

[@withcindy]

Yep those types of dudes always make me skeptical!!

[@fantasynw8091]

also, so sorry for your loss cindy. condolences to you and all their family and friends.💖

[@MysticOceanDollies]

I will not date a self-proclaimed feminist man, as so many say so just to gain more access to women and take advantage of the aspects of feminism that benefit them.

[@paulaunger3061]

I think this is how people like Gaiman got away with it so long. The whole package of male power, a fashion for no-strings sex (60s, 70s & 80s) and for deviant sex (90s) and 100s of years of social conditioning telling women they should give men what they want no matter how much they don't want to... I met a lot of people like Gaiman, it was part of the shape of the world at one point. It always puzzled me why people - especially female writers - seem to think sexual liberation was about having as much sex with as many partners as possible. For women, sexual liberation is about being able to say no and have their needs answered - something we have NEVER had in all of history.

[@heiker1351]

​@@paulaunger3061Very well said, so true.

[@brirose9927]

0:48 Most people “I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy” Cindy “double it and give it to Neil Gaiman”

[@withcindy]

Exactly 💯

[@coyotegaxiola4281]

My kind of woman.

[@schang_lh]

Honestly tho. I'm just 7mins into the video and I couldn't continue further. Just absolute horrid, omg…

[@alyssaj8779]

I've started saying "this is the kind of thing I would wish on my worst enemy" instead. I am that petty.

[@GratitudeismyAttitude123]

​@@alyssaj8779I love this ❤😅

[@Freakingcurly]

I don’t think Gaiman's a "monster" or a "sick" man. He’s a healthy patriarchy’s child, a man that came to understand his fame and economical power in a world that celebrates everything men do. He’s a despicable human being but we have to stop thinking that is pathological. He’s not the exception to the norm as we have seen with Gisèle Pelicot’s case.

[@withcindy]

I agree. He was enabled by the people, industry, and world around him

[@bluebow5014]

I’m glad there’s people here that can see the forest for the trees-I keep getting bogged down and asking why X people keep doing Y thing, but it really is systemic

[@hope-cat4894]

He was celebrated for being a good author, though, not for just being a man in the industry?

[@cami_triz83]

​@@hope-cat4894 ... he was celebrated and is now being defended for being a good author *because* he's a man in the industry.

[@Ika0713]

I know you're trying to be deep but he's definitely a monster

[@yearlywise8003]

Reading that article about Gaiman made me want to throw up. I never want to see his face in the literary world ever again.

[@withcindy]

Same here

[@Showtunediva]

We vibe the same.

[@sapphireemerald6109]

I had the Coraline book in my shopping cart for a long time, now I'm not sure if I should purchase the book 😅 I don't want to give a cent to that person

[@MC-lm7de]

​@@sapphireemerald6109 if you decide you still want to own it, buying it secondhand doesn't give anything to the original author

[@rjp6368]

​@@sapphireemerald6109yeah, you shouldn't do it imo seeing as how neil gaiman's still alive and buying his books means supporting him and giving him money. read "Thief of Always" by Clive Barker instead. i heard it has a similar premise and themes that Coraline drew from.

[@sarai6569]

that's actual CSA what he is putting his son through. additional info on the hotel room assault: his son WAS playing on the ipad in the same room, and Neil told him to put his ipad away, aka forcing him to notice what he was doing since it was a small *one room* hotel room. He clearly gets off to putting his child in these situations. I hope he loses custody and gets jail time. Big warning to anyone who wants to read the article bc it's harrowing to read through.

[@sarai6569]

i want to say i'm really glad you're talking about this Cindy 🫶🏻💗 it made some noise on social media and feminist circles, but a lot more people needs to learn about this man. it's not an easy topic to make a video about.

[@withcindy]

thanks for providing additional info for others reading the comments! it's so disturbing the things that his child has been exposed to. i fear for him under the care of both those parents :(

[@jdprettynails]

Not only that, but there was an incident where his son was lying in bed between Gaiman and one of his victims while he was doing stuff to her

[@BertaRS]

Amanda shouldn't get custody either. She's a Ghislaine Maxwell who didn't protect anyone.

[@bluegreen5377]

@@BertaRS Agreed. That kid has no chance unless he's taken from both parents. It might sound cold but that's the truth.

[@marilucs]

I NEVER associate "good art" with "good morals", or "bad art" with "bad morals". Its a dangerous mindset.

[@heywoodjablome5380]

Yes. Unfortunately Dan Reynolds is a good guy by most accounts 😂

[@randysmith7189]

Well, stated and I agree totally.

[@missterytree]

I hate how the “good boy” image is always the one thing that keeps people from believing a victim. It was crazy to read in the article, “well he’s always been nice, he writes women like they’re people!” And it’s like who fucking cares. That’s the point. That’s the ruse!

[@withcindy]

Yeah, they can skate by without suspicion based on the right words and projection :/

[@muckamuck]

I was just thinking about this, because I could have sworn Gaiman spoke up in support of women on social media, and I was really surprised when the news broke. But in the end, that's part of the optics, and it's insidious.

[@Faceless_Cryptid]

100% they do it on purpose. I was abused by a “feminist” man and none of our mutual friends believe me because of it. Even when those friends were on a call (that he started) and could hear me crying and asking him to just acknowledge he had hurt me. Him and his family are rather well known among the art scene in my state (which I was hoping to be able to find a place for myself within) and he’s threatened to ruin my name to everyone there and that’s upsetting enough, I can’t imagine how much more catastrophically hurtful Neil Gaiman’s actions are to these women.

[@redg-df2se]

My first introduction to his writing was a short story about a man who refused to leave his girlfriend's apartment after she broke up with him...and then used her clay (she was a sculptor) to...pleasure himself...and then made a sculpture of his own with that lovely mix...In Her Apartment!!! It was super creepy and gross towards the women in it and I was so confused how he was so popular. I forget what the story was called, but it was in a short story collection called "In the Shadow of the Gargoyle" published in the 90s.

[@zainmudassir2964]

​@@Faceless_Cryptid I'm sorry that happened. Hope you are safe and doing ok now

[@snowyhair9300]

I have always loved Coraline, which as a story encourages young girls to see through deceit and question fear itself even when that fear is instilled by figures you are meant to trust. So you can probably guess how sad it makes me feel knowing that the very man who wrote it went on to manipulate, abuse and traumatize eight young women, being a perpetrator of that same fear.

[@zainmudassir2964]

and it's claimed the book is based on bedtime story he told her daughter. That's messed up

[@heiker1351]

Oh Coraline ... I love that story, but if I would have heard it as a child, it would have given me nightmares for weeks. My other mother was real, the story reversed. Those people laugh about us, it amuses them to tell us in our faces how blind we are, not recognizing them for what they are, believing what they tell us to hide their true faces. This scandal shattered not only one mask. My brother wears a very similar one and the shock to have not seen what Gaiman is made me see what kind of monster my own brother is. Somehow they managed to sew buttons to my eyes. I can't remember when that happened, I definitely did'nt agree to that. As a child you have no chance, they are your world. My brother was a victim, too, was'nt he? No, he was'nt. He's a fullblown monster and I could not see it. Scary.

[@altothealtoiest1682]

"to create loving men we must love men" as bell hooks put it and "we do not have to uphold every cis white male author who does the bare minimum of work and put them on a pedestal" are two ideas that can coexist yet I fear the world at large is not ready for

[@followingheartlines]

i think part of to love someone is to seek/require the best from them which would include accountability when they cause hurt. i imagine abusers have long been enabled and not held accountable at any point leading to increasingly harmful and violent behaviour.

[@MsInsanityMadness]

bell hooks wrote that love and affection is separate. Love can happen without affection - dragging someone to jail for their actions is an act of love - you want their spiritual growth, but it's not an affectionate act.

[@heiker1351]

If a child isn't loved it dies emotionally. No love in the world is able to heal that. At least that's what is usually said about the narcissistic dead mother/dead child problem. They lose the ability to receive love, all their feelings are twisted beyond repair. As a survivor of a narc family system I would agree. They are unable to love and answer love with hatred they mask towards the outside world. If we can't protect the children from ab*se the problem will continue. Just think of his children. How can they grow up with healthy feelings in such an environment? It's impossible. I always fought them because I was made the black sheep, I was punished for everything. My brother was the golden child and he ended up just like them, ab*sing everybody around him, creating an artificial image very similar to NG's, just on a smaller scale. Survivors are broken, too. But you can repair the damage, you can heal trauma. But they embrace the darkness, it's their survival strategy. They force away everything that could heal them. Love scares them to death, love is a "dead mother", smothering their feelings until they die.

[@animeotaku307]

Between Gaiman and Whedon, another lesson to take away is that someone professing to be a feminist or who makes good female characters shouldn’t take that as proof that they’re safe or trustworthy.

[@withcindy]

Agreed! You never know

[@StegoKing]

Whedon doesn't deserve to be compared to Gaiman, a serial rapist.

[@erich6073]

The thing that I think a lot of people don't understand is that, three-dimensional or not, characters are still CONTROLLED by the writer. A male author can write well-rounded female characters all day long, but they're never going to challenge him or defy him or resist giving him what he wants; he literally possesses them. There is no relationship between how a writer treats fictional characters that he controls and how he treats real live human beings, where he can't just hit the backspace key when they displease him.

[@WitchHazel88]

loudly feminist men have always been a red flag for me, honestly I trust guys who are just normal and not visibly polishing their good boy medals way more

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through atm. Sending my sincerest condolences and warm regards.

[@withcindy]

Thanks bb 💗

[@WastedBananas]

stinky indian take a shower

[@peridotgeegee2351]

My condolences on your loss

[@withcindy]

Thank u bb 💗

[@ktw72]

"Good art doesn't make good people and, conversely, good people don't make good art either" I really thinks thats something a lottttt of people need to hear

[@withcindy]

i hope more people remember this!

[@Frogface91]

Quality does not equal morality

[@heiker1351]

I find that a bit too one dimensional. A bad person can write a good story and vice versa. But there is honest art and dishonest art. There has always been good art by shady people who did'nt pretend to be the good guy. I can live with that. Jim Morrison never pretended to be a saint. I love his art and despise him as a person. Would I give away his art if it could protect his victims? Hell yeah, absolutely. But he's dead. The difference between NG and Morrison is that Morrison was real. Gaiman is'nt, his image is made up and he hides his true intentions in his art. And I find that dangerous, because we tend to believe people we perceive as good, to trust them and not question what they tell us. That way people like him feed us things, believes, morals that are twisted. How much do we buy? He will not make a villain out of good people. But he can secretly expand our grey areas, make us think that some things can be justified, are somehow okay in certain circumstances. They can twist our perception of what consent means. What is still acceptable. If victims are guilty somehow if they take hush money. It's not about black and white. It's about the million colors in between. Everybody has a different opinion in this case of what happened, of what is right and what is wrong. And in this area it is important to know if the source of any information sees the world through the eyes of a predator or prey. A predator will always try to influence opinions in his favour. And that's ecactly what he does. But that's also woven into his books where it is much harder to spot and we are not so critical because we think it's fiction.

[@dieorwrite9460]

Ngl after the news of Neil Gaiman and the SA news out broke out last year. I (who lives in mainland China) where his work is inspirational to a lot of me and my fellow chinese writer/artist/creatives here. It's honestly been soul-shattering to see the kind of person he is. I think another thing is that he always posed himself as an LGBTQ+ ally, so a lot of my irl sapphic friends I met through interacting with other sapphic Chinese ppl who are in the same fandoms of his work. Honestly it is hard to explain but in China the fandom/conventions are the only space where sapphic ppl are hugely present/LGBTQ+ creators, especially writers/artists/creatives feel safe to just be who we are? It's very different from the west. But that's besides the point, the point I think is I think a lot of us don't just grapple with the idea of turning author into a hero - since Neil Gaiman isn't really close to the Chinese creative space as an individual, but the community that we fostered that are safe for LGBTQ+ folks here is also tainted by his absolutely monstrous actions. It is just personally devastating to a lot of us I think.

[@iriseyez]

I can understand the feeling. The thing that brought you together and helped make a community has been tainted and it will be hard to go to gathers without thinking about that taint

[@withcindy]

that's a very good point, and i hope you and your community are doing okay

[@chelseahelsinki]

This is so understandable and makes so much sense. I hope you all find a way to still honour and appreciate the value you were able to find in his work, and that the community yall built thrives 💓

[@wept_in_the]

@@dieorwrite9460 this made me sad to read. I hope you create new fandom spaces.

[@Sonal-q5h]

Hey, I would like to add that if your community really likes the Sandman series, please introduce them to The Tales from the Flat Earth series by Tanith Lee. It is believed that Gaiman lifted many plot points from her book, after this series was finished and never gave any credit to Tanith Lee. Even when the author was alive she did not like how Gaiman could plagiarize her work and never acknowledge it.

[@tommy2051]

to add to the last point, i believe is specially awful when some people say "oh i'm glad i never read any of his works, i knew beforehand he was weird" considering what we now about the victims, is like they are saying they are dumb or something for not knowing? and I feel like focusing the discussion on something like that is especially disrespectful to the victims and what they went through. Another point I want to add is that I understand that there are people attached to their work like Coraline or Good Omens, but there are certain people who only focus on the fact that their series will be discontinued or that it will not have a sequel instead of the fact that neil is an abuser and don't seem to care enough about the women in question

[@redsunflowers7322]

It's just another way to victim blame. After I found out about a lot of the lies my ex had told, people blamed me for not seeing through them, even though he was the one who was lying to me. But those same people would tell you that you need to be more trusting and stop being "paranoid" if you question things that give you a bad feeling when you're with these people who are doing stuff like this. It's a way for them to avoid blaming the person who is the actual perpetrator and also a way for them to pretend that they would never be fooled by this type of person, which is something they can't possibly know unless they were in that situation. A lot of these people like Gaiman are very convincing and very manipulative.

[@tarotsushima3332]

Yeah like I feel like this situation has set the internet's general understanding of how a work's quality doesn't always translate to who the author is as a person and that an author's work having questionable content doesn't necessarily mean they endorse it back a bunch of years. It very much is victim blaming trying to say that people who idolized his books and the like were just being blind to who he was as a person because of the stuff he wrote or like 'Well I didn't like his books for a completely unrelated reason so that means I'm intuitive'. Like his works played a role in his influence over a lot of the women he took advantage of but treating whether you liked or didn't like his works as a badge of honour or a moment to gripe is being self centred.

[@EliasValadez-pu1iq]

Yeah I never got into Gaiman that much but there were a few things from him I read that I liked. I liked the Graveyard Book and Sandman well enough. Coraline was and still is a great animated movie, but yeah now it’s weird. Like I started reading some Sandman in I think 2023. This was after getting into Guillermo Del Toro movies a d reading the Hellboy comics and wanting more of that dark fantasy stuff. I think it was the first two volumes that I read. And yeah I remember liking those two volumes quite a bit but when I look back yeah there was some weird stuff I noticed that does look worse with what’s been discovered about him. I also read the book version of Coraline and yeah wasn’t really for me though I read it before the allegations so that didn’t play much of a part in my opinion. Maybe it was because I saw the movie first, but I just felt the book was kinda focused more on being weird and creepy and didn’t have solid characters you really cared about. I feel Laika really fleshed characters like Coraline herself more and gave the film more of a central theme about being careful what you wish for. Yeah so I can still enjoy the movie Coraline and I did see Stardust after hearing the allegations which encouraged to just skip the book and I thought it was also pretty good, but I don’t think I can get into something like Good Omens or the Sandman show which sucks cause those sound right up my alley. Unlike Coraline and Stardust where he wasn’t too involved in the creative process and it could be argued those count as other people’s versions of his stories, Sandman and Good Omens had him involved as a writer and shit. From what I hear about Good Omens it’s supposed to be centered on a gay angel and demon which is rich considering he didn’t respect sexuality when it came getting what he wants.

[@nervousbell3419]

Once again, we are reminded of the challenging lesson not to idealize individuals.

[@withcindy]

many people's entire careers and livelihoods depend on being idolized, and then they abuse it

[@followingheartlines]

hopefully more people will be aware of this seeing the increase of good artists being callled out for bad behavioirs. im not so confident tho seeing the way countless people jump to the defense of wealthy and powerful cis-straight white men.

[@RamenzillaX]

I make the effort to say "I like so and so's WORK" rather than "I like so and so". I don't know these people, I don't know their politics, I don't know their moral/ethical compass, I don’t know what they’re up to in their spare time. All I know is I like the work they produced. (see: Joss Whedon and Buffy the Vampire Slayer). How I interact with the work of hellspawn demons moving forward is what I'm interrogating for myself. Anyway, he is a sick individual and belongs behind bars. I hope these women get justice. P.s. Throw his ex-wife behind bars too tbh.

[@withcindy]

That's a good way of distinguishing!

[@preeshq]

I always check an author's political views, anything bad they've done, are they genuinely good people, are they racist, are they sexist, etc the minute I finish reading a book by them, and then decide if I even wanna talk about the book anywhere or recommend it to amyone

[@jasminv8653]

​@@preeshq right but the thing is, you CAN'T know. That's the whole point of this discussion about Gaiman. Acting like you can mind read well-respected celebrities from your couch when they abuse the people around them irl is victim blaming, plain and simple.

[@whiteglovian]

I will never ever read Good Omens again, it upsets me that a book I was obsessed with in high school was partially written by an author like him, Terry Pratchett is rolling in his grave. Also hope those women can get justice and Neil goes to prison.

[@withcindy]

i hope so too. i dont have faith in the legal system but hopefully the victims can get peace

[@thechroniclesofkweencoth]

What really annoys me is that the new terry pratchett published short stories (which were published in newspapers yearsss ago) has a foreword by neil gaimen. And i can’t believe the publisher still decided to go with that idea despite the initial accusations last summer. I still love good omens myself, but I’ve always seen it as a mostly pratchett book anyway. I think gaiman the wanker had said before ages ago that it was mostly terry pratchett work anyway. I do have an idea in painting out neil gaiman’s name on my book cover and instead painting crowley’s plants underneath crowley on the cover. Just like how i’m going to put washi tape over joss whedon name on my firefly books and comics since they weren’t really written by him anyway but by other writers. 😌 joss whedon and neil gaimen can suffer in the special hell (to quote a firefly reference as a fu to joss 😂) But I understand if you just want to yeet the books out of the window and never want to see them again!!

[@whiteglovian]

@ Same here.

[@whiteglovian]

@ That's a great idea, and you gave me peace of mind by pointing that out.

[@graceross4888]

Turns out it was an open secret in his circle, if anything Terry knew, maybe it wasn't as bad when he was alive but Gaiman was already very famous at 2015

[@briannemorris5432]

I literally have been silently saying goodbye to people I have spoken to online in both the fan club spaces and writing groups since I have seen so much of comments that centers around HIS IMAGE, HIS PAIN, and HIS LEGACY. One comment from a woman literally hurt me when they shared a story about speaking with him at a convention in New York and really, really pushed down my throat nothing had happened to them. They were treated nice and given a good reference. Girl, just because it did not happen to you, it does not negate the experiences of others.

[@withcindy]

Wtfff ppl r not getting the point

[@quirkyblackenby]

That makes me think of Macaulay Culkin saying he knows MJ wasn’t a predator because he didn’t assault him like y'all abusers pick their targets

[@bookjunk]

It's such a weird defense too. If someone said "this person can't be a murderer, because they didn't murder me!" everyone would laugh, right? So, why does this remark keep popping up with SA?

[@HappyBirddi]

If the Colleen Ballinger incident has taught me anything, anyone is fully capable of being a predator. Even if it's someone who presents themself as a sensitive artist type. It's gutting for me to hear that someone I admired in writing did these disgusting and horrible actions, but that's exactly why we as people need to stand behind the survivors. I will always stand by the survivors and their words

[@FatimaMarques0890]

I'm just gonna say: BRAVO! Cindy you freaking spoke my mind. These are things I have been thinking about and saying for YEARS. Believing that any creative person is good because their art is good: is like the medieval idea that if you're beautiful, you are good, and ugliness means evil. The moral: WE ALL MUST DEVELOP OUR CRITICAL THINKING.

[@withcindy]

i think because writing books and creating art can be such a deeply personal thing, that it makes it easy to equate the quality of work to the quality of someone's morals. but tons of people can create technically good work and be awful IRL, and tons of people who create technically "bad" art can be the nicest person

[@Lucifersfursona]

Nabokov tried to sound the alarm about this archetype of man. This is what he was talking about.

[@feryalthepirate437]

I couldn’t finish reading the vulture article, I felt so sick. I feel so sad for the brave people who managed to come forward. My god what Scarlett went through really shook me. I know how dismissive people are when you go public with a S.A accusation, can you imagine against someone so beloved and famous.

[@bluebow5014]

Have you seen the Owl Criticism video about Nabokov? If not, I recommend it, it’s enlightening about how…prevalent the themes in Lolita are across the rest of his works

[@tired690]

@@bluebow5014 Personally I recommend video analysis on Nabokov and lolita from other sources due to Owl Criticism just ignoring and hand waving the allegations of nabokov being a victim of CSA from his uncle (iirc)

[@hellbreakfast]

Your name is helping to lighten the burden of your words. It's a good username.

[@bluebow5014]

@@tired690 Oh shit Yeah I did not know that, thank you for the details

[@hiddenpowers123]

100% agree with your point about women not getting equal amount of praise for their ability to write about diverse people! It's kind of like....when a white man does it, he is applauded for "looking" beyond white supremacy and misogyny smh

[@jenny5272]

I'm so sorry for your loss, Cindy. I recently lost my grandmother to cancer back in December. We had a very complicated relationship but losing her still hit hard. Admittedly, much harder than I thought it would. Death is so bizarre even though it's such a normal and expected part of life. When it happens, it still feels wrong and confusing. Almost like it isn't something that's supposed to be real, as if death is merely a myth. I hope you are doing as well as can be in such a difficult situation. Stay strong.

[@withcindy]

Thanks bb, sending love to you too 💗 this happened right after Christmas so the new year has been a lot

[@bowieziehm6407]

@@withcindy Sorry for both your losses

[@laotaohoney]

Thank you, Cindy for pointing out that people writing morally “correct/clean/palatable” fiction doesn’t make them good people. Something I want to add is that at the same time, people who write darker fiction, even taboo fiction, aren’t inherently bad people nor does it mean their work is an indicator that they would replicate what they write in real life. Fiction is imagination, not a mirror. We’ve seen so many times that “good” authors can, in fact, be predators. They predate on our sense of safety and perceived closeness to them because of their work. You cannot depend on a person’s fiction to indicate the type of person they are. Of course, there are exceptions, but I’ve seen so many people confused that Neil Gaiman could be this vile person because they connected with his work, but his writing is not who he is as a person walking through society. You have to separate this notion that fiction affects reality and accept that it’s more often a reflection of reality and lived experiences, but those experiences may not be relatable to the author themselves. Fiction is where we play and imagine and explore; for him, he was imagining what it’d be like to be a good person.

[@Anna-dd4rh]

Idk if I can agree with the concept of any writing being “morally correct” (because what does that mean?), but your last line is SUCH a powerful one. Even though it’s horrifying, it is safer and more accurate to assume mainstream “feminist” men are just cosplaying as societally acceptable people, and doing it well.

[@laotaohoney]

@@Anna-dd4rh I edited my comment to put “good, moral” fiction in quotes, because I agree that there are way too many ways that could be defined. There are a lot of people online, namely young people, who genuinely believe fiction affects reality and that we shouldn’t write, read, or engage with any fiction that isn’t perfect representation, clearly consensual at all times, and flashes neon signs at you that amoral characters (i.e. villains) are in fact evil and you shouldn’t be attracted to them or like them. Their whole idea is that anything you read in fiction that’s taboo or “bad” affects or reflects your morals in real life and normalizes it in real life. I find that boring and very shallow in understanding how and why people engage with the fiction that they do. Fiction should challenge you. Taboo exists for many reasons and people engage for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with their ideals irl. That’s mostly what I mean when people talk about “moral” fiction. I think equating what authors write and not what they actually *do* and _say_ when speaking outside of what their work is reductive. Characters do a lot of things that the author may or may not agree with, so searching for an author’s morals in the fiction they write isn’t exactly a great metric, IMO. How people write certain characters and their stories _can_ expose things like clear prejudices and the like, but by and large I think a lot of authors on both sides write things that aren’t reflective of who they are as a person. I digress, I think the issue is super nuanced but ultimately I don’t think people can be boiled down to good or bad based solely on the fiction they write.

[@Anna-dd4rh]

⁠@@laotaohoney I definitely appreciate that perspective. As a horror fan, I definitely agree that people shouldn’t only read work that is “morally good.” As you point out, art should challenge you, make you uncomfortable, and force you to look at your life and society in new ways. Thanks for expounding on and clarifying your points!

[@krixkhaos]

Something the movie "Promising Young Woman" did very well was having a lot of the male perpetrators in the film be young men who seemed, at face value, harmless. They didn't look scary or intimidating; their demeanour was friendly, if a bit awkward; they said all the right things. But none of that precluded them from harming women, or being complicit in the harming of women. Quite often, perpetrators don't look and act like monsters, they're just some dude. And sometimes the dude knows all the right things to say to protect his image, like feminist PR training.

[@risa4173]

The way this is how I learned about this awful situation 💔 I agree with your points and really feel like I’ve done that in the past with Rick Riordan. To my knowledge he’s never done anything like this, but when I was growing up to me he was that older white man with “dad vibes” who was liberal and prioritized representation and I really idolized him. The fandom even called him “Uncle Rick.” I started reexamining my idolization of him after being devastated by JKR’s transphobia several years ago. You make a great point about specifically with male artists we just want so badly for them to be allies and while I’m sure that can be true and wonderful in many cases, it also helps open the door for awful situations like this one.

[@withcindy]

I think your care and awareness helps be more considerate of how we view public figures 💗

[@absolutelynotellen]

Same. As a long time Percy Jackson fan, i don't really like the representation of Samirah that much. Perhaps one of the things that i clocked out (?) about him.

[@umbra1948]

@@absolutelynotellenfor me, it was that blog post he made about Palestine, where despite claiming that he wanted safety for the native Palestinians in their illegally occupied homeland, he proceeded to voice his support and wishes for the security of the apartheid state that oppresses the country and its people. The shameless book plug certainly didn’t help the impression I created from that either. To me, it seemed incredibly spineless and insensitive. Apartheid states shouldn’t exist and he of all people knows that. But I had a feeling that Rick, like all other authors and creatives I’ve known from my teenage years, would disappoint me in a way that will forever taint the way I view his creations and their creator.

[@queene1036]

Sorry for your loss Cindy ❤ Hope 2025 gets better for you soon

[@withcindy]

Thanks bb 💗 January has been tough on so many levels but hopefully the rest of the year is better 😭

[@thewolfandherbooks]

Some people aren't even able to delete his books off of their Goodreads yet. Goodreads: "This book has temporary limitations on submitting ratings and reviews. This may be because we’ve detected unusual behavior that doesn’t follow our review guidelines." 😬

[@withcindy]

Ugh

[@laiaal.3324]

Glad to know i am not the only one, I have tried several times along several days and it still doesn't let me, not even modify the review

[@abbierose6929]

This happened to me too while I was clearing out my tbr and I didn’t even clock why until I saw it was him.

[@scarlettdiaz4095]

I'm kinda lost here, he gets money from GoodReads or something? What I mean is, what difference would it make if you have the book on GoodReads? They are all over the internet, a.simple search and you'll find it. Instead we should not buy his work or watch the shows, right? Stop supporting him etc.

[@shaia6583]

This is the first time i feel i should have heeded a TW and skipped ahead. Jesus fucking christ i wish i could unhear this shit. Real Epstein and Maxwell shit

[@withcindy]

Yeah despite the trigger warnings it's still a lot worse than ppl expect 😔

[@Rikrobat]

I’ve never read Gaiman’s works but I’d always hear good things about them and about him. So seeing this all unfold is still a shock from the outside. Someone who seemed so safe to a lot of people actually weaponizing that to his advantage. Ugh… Sending you many condolences for your loss. 😢❤

[@withcindy]

i've never read his work either, but still knew of him because of how lauded he was, which i think speaks to his influence

[@tired_tea]

As someone who spent their hs years getting assaulted, I appreciate the trigger warnings throughout the video. It's such an awful, heart wrenching thing to hear this story. It's genuinely disgusting and awful. His response is disgusting but honestly, not entirely surprising. Deflecting, denying, the whole nine yards. I feel like sometimes, with male "feminist" artists, people project a feminist identity onto them. They may not do anything entirely *worthy* of praise, but because the bar is in hell, people assign them as their newest feminist king. It's so easy for them too. Do the bare minimum, and suddenly everyone loves you. Hell, sometimes they become a "face of the movement." We've created a culture of idolizing these people and it really gives them the power to get away with the shit they do. And it honestly just needs to stop.

[@withcindy]

totally; he can say some nice words and that's enough to project all the noble qualities you WISH he has, without really knowing the extent of how much he believes or practices what he says

[@amberproctor3996]

There are so many similarities between the two, except in JW case there are no sexual solid case that we know of. However, we see these artists as feminine icons for creating well written female characters. Wish that was the norm. Buffy the vampire slayer was phenomenal so it's crazy that the creator is just a lucky pos who had connections theory is family and access to a higher education than most. Cast members have spoken out about this abuse on set. He wasn't allowed to be alone with a young actress because of an unknown incident. He wrote off a main character and destroyed a promising storyline and retaliation to an actress getting pregnant. He was found to be abusive and removed from the a set after a investigation was launched amid rumors. He has a self proclaimed self insert character named xander in buffy the vampire slayer. What's alarming about this is that the character is a sexist, Hypocritical pos who never faces the consequences of his actions. The fact he wants us to see him that way is crazy!! You should definitely look into it. Xander is like the beginnings of an incel. The og blue print. I'm in a buffy the vampire slayer fan page on facebook and the way that most men white knight for xander ( because most have the common sense not to white knight for JW himself) is wild. They will ignore real critiques and criticisms of the character and instead attack the person making them.

[@Anna-dd4rh]

@@amberproctor3996I think you might’ve responded to the wrong comment-this one isn’t about Joss Whedon at all

[@ittyspoon]

IMO, Amanda P@lmer is almost as culpable as he is. She was, at best, his enabler and, at worst, almost a trafficker. If it's true that she told NG he "couldn't have Scarlett," that could be seen as egging him. She 100% knew what he was like and knew that these things had the potential to happen but sent this vulnerable young women in there anyway. If she comes out with allegations of abuse against him, we should believe her because we believe ALL survivors regardless of bad shit they did, but we cannot forget her part in this.

[@Toribell1928]

Yes and the fact that she was alright with him being around their child. Just disgusting. Like the headphones comment. Even if the kid was wearing headphones so what?? That’s still incredibly inappropriate??

[@Adara007]

​@@Toribell1928 Exactly right. She also explicitly told him that he "could break" Scarlett because of how fragile she was and that coupled with telling him he "couldn't have Scarlett" was apparently exactly what encouraged him and he said made him want her more. She refused to talk with the police to help Scarlett and instead wrote and published a song whereby she posited herself as the victim and referred to Scarlett in an extremely dehumanising manner. The fact she asked Gaiman if he was wearing headphones while SA Scarlett strongly indicates Palmer was fine with him engaging in sexual relations with younger women while their child was in the room as long as headphones were worn. It's absolutely repugnant behaviour.

[@janettewong9900]

Genuinely asking: did you read the Vulture article? It outlines that when this happened, AP was in the process of divorcing him but still wanted to him to be involved in co-parenting. The way it is told in the article is that up to that point, AP knew that NG was capable of impropriety (hence giving him an explicit warning) but what she was not expecting was him to flat out r@pe the nanny and to assault her while their kid was present. After the nanny told AP what happened, she immediately took steps to address it. What the article had also mentioned was that AP expressed that she wanted to close their open relationship but NG kept cheating on her. The other thing mentioned in the article was that she already knew was that NG had cheated on his first wife with a babysitter. AP has a LOT of flaws, just within the coverage of her time with NG - she refuses to acknowledge uneven power dynamics between her and her fans, she was a unicorn hunter while she was married to NG, she could have hired a professional nanny instead of seeing it as an opportunity to help out a young friend in need, and while she never questioned the validity of the nanny’s story, she failed to show up for her by refusing to speak to the police when later questioned. Those are all fair things to point out and criticize her for but what is patently unfair is to classify the questionable decisions of a woman, who is already disliked for different reasons, on par with the actions of a literal serial r@pist. AP’s bad judgment is in no way as bad as NG intentionally using his leverage to assault multiple people and then keep the victims quiet and frankly, I’m saddened (yet absolutely not surprised) to see how many people are willing to engage in the type of misogyny that not only doesn’t extend any grace to the partner of an alleged predator and abuser, but is so eager to put her on the same level as him. It’s giving the same vibes as people diminishing Jonny Depp’s abuse just because Amber Heard wasn’t a perfect likable victim

[@wolfwatch9731]

when the allegations first came out over the summer, the reactions i saw from the good omens / sandman fandoms on tumblr was genuinely disgusting. the things that were said about these women, by people that had previously professed the importance of believing victims, were actually vile; i don’t think i’d ever been as upset about something on the internet as i was last summer, i felt literally nauseous. especially when the article came out recently and it was clear that a lot of what these people online were saying were the exact same things gaiman himself used to manipulate his victims. and that’s not even to mention the number of people who weren’t saying anything about the victims directly, but whose first or sometimes even only posts on the subject were along the lines of “what will happen to the next season of [show]??? 😰” that made me unbelievably angry like go the fuck outside for once in your life

[@withcindy]

let's bring back shame

[@justwonder1404]

17:11 - great point. Palmer overstepped just by calling her fans 'friends', but hiring a very vulberable girl was downright predatory. I used to grieve all the books of Gaiman I won't be able to read (I loved those I have read), but now I'm just angry that I considered him a humanist. I'm sorry to hear you're going through a dark time, hope you're not alone.

[@hellogoditsmesara3569]

One of the things that I was so disgusted by was the amount of houses/property Gaiman has Like that amount of wealth that he silently wielded over all of these women I wasn’t even aware he was that successful

[@withcindy]

Yeah he is rich rich!! That's why he just throws money at his victims as a solution

[@zodlord5669]

@@withcindy don't act so high and mighty those women took that money too what does that make them?

[@zodlord5669]

yes rich people buy multiple properties, you think that's crazy wait until you hear about P diddy

[@zona872]

​@@zodlord5669 hi there! I don't think Cindy is being "high and mighty" here, and would love to hear your perspective on why. while I can understand the perspective that taking an abusers money can imply complacency or enabling behavior, I don't think it justifies gaiman brutally raping her. do you think that because the women were working for him and therefore "taking his money" that they deserved to be raped? would you allow yourself to be raped by your boss at work? if you are a boss, would you like to get away with raping an employee? do you think these two things (receiving money, and rape) are on the same level?

[@weepumpkins]

@@zodlord5669people who were vulnerable financially, what the fuck???? and even if they were well off, that wouldn't excuse anything gaiman did

[@shadyjoanneboots]

I know KZbin is very annoying with its monetization/censorship BS but I respect you a lot for going into graphic detail about this and not censoring yourself or using alternative tongue in cheek phrasing. The whole situation is just so horrific and depraved, what a genuinely evil human being he is.

[@withcindy]

Yep screw it, no sponsors, no dumb censors like "grape", let's call out a predator for exactly who they are

[@georgiakateryan]

It’s just like I wanna shake people and be like “HE IS RENOWNED WRITER! OF COURSE HE CAN CRAFT A GOOD BOY IMAGE!”

[@rhianx]

Been waiting for your take on this. It has been insane indeed.

[@withcindy]

I feel so bad for the victims 😔

[@killercutie]

Just hearing what happened to these poor women makes me sick…I hope they are able to get the help they need and the justice they deserve.

[@withcindy]

me too, they've been through enough

[@killercutie]

@ Fr🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@sawmea5308]

This is truly one of the most sickening things to come out in recent years, especially given the astronomical success Gaiman has enjoyed with several of his screen adaptations since 2020. And yeah, I completely agree with the fact that the art shouldn't have to prove an author's deviousness or conceit when there are literal living, breathing human beings coming forward with their stories. That is hard and cold proof which should be contemplated and acted upon rather than wasting time on dissecting every line this man has ever written. (What he has put these women through is unimaginable, nobody sane can come to that conclusion through his 'art'). I hope the survivours find peace eventually and that he loses his mind the same way one of his twisted and predatory characters did. My deepest condolences to you for your loss, Cindy.

[@withcindy]

yes, the success of his screen adaptations made him even wealthier and renowned. hopefully this will tarnish his legacy and prevent him from any more opportunities

[@patty1247]

I am so sorry for your loss! I personally never cared for Gaiman’s writing style but film Coraline came out during a rough time for me and I became very obsessed with it so this definitely hit me hard. But between Bill Cosby and Woody Allen I have become a walk away type of person. And with the state of the world I think walking away and not even entertaining separating the art from the artist concept is what’s is best. There are so many writers out there doing good work and saying it better! Heck Ursula Le Guin still slaps! What happened to those women is sickening and I hope he never knows a moment of peace.

[@blerp2107]

I'm very sorry for your loss, Cindy. Thank you for covering this issue nonetheless, hope the rest of your year offers you some comfort and respite from all the events that have transpired so far 🙏

[@withcindy]

Thank you so much, I appreciate that ❤️

[@This_Is_Just_To_Say]

Thanks and respect for not censoring out the horrible details. Lots of people leading with 'well monetization' over holding accountability, which does lessen the impact of speaking on it. Also good on bringing up the habitual centering of white men as human rights representatives, and all of your discussion off of that point.

[@withcindy]

thank you for listening!

[@xphoenixrising]

Firstly, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Secondly: I hope at the very least, Gaiman and Palmer are both charged with clear human trafficking. Also, given what the women said about the abuse they endured aligned a *lot* with what we hear about the abuse scientology survivors have experienced. I only bring that up in the context of Neil's own history (and own abuse he went through) with the organization. Also jfc can we all hope for their son being okay? Daddy was already grooming him. What about his other children? jfc.

[@withcindy]

Yes there def seems to be parallels with what he's learned in scientology in preying upon vulnerable people!

[@sylph8005]

I think the most pressing matter is that CPS is called on them and they get their son taken away so he stops getting exposed to horrible things.

[@AmeerahMuhammad]

A particularly gross part of this is that Gaiman was raises in Scientology. His parents were pretty high up in the UK branch. The head of the Church was called “Master” and a movie starring Philip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix called The Master dramatizes the founding of Scientology and the psychological warfare employed on others by “The Master”. Also I am so sorry for your loss.

[@H2Ohexagon]

Tanith Lee's novel Night's Master with sequals influenced Gaiman's The Sandman comics

[@Pikminboy]

Firstly, sorry for your loss CIndy Secondly, thank you for speaking up about the Neil Gaiman accusations, because although I've heard about this last year, I feel like it's still isn't really talked about (or at least not talked about enough). And it pisses me off that people still try to push the allegations under the table just because Neil wrote a few good stories.

[@SaraiMay]

I finished American gods days before the article came out, I remeber being horrified by the sexism of it. The only thing I could find online was this guys thesis project about how feminist the work was, and I felt like I was insane. Reddit was the only place to confirm my interpretation

[@weathersleep2315]

Oh my goodness, thank you!!! I felt like I was going crazy when I was reading American Gods because I just felt that the women were soooo sexualized, and I found it very offputting, especially since I had heard so many rave reviews on how Gaiman wrote women.

[@UnderdarkDrow_]

Oh this puts into words what I was feeling! Twice I tried to read American Gods and was always put off by it, could never finish the book.. tha k you!

[@Adara007]

That's why I never took to his work because I felt there was so much misogyny throughout. I did love Good Omens and knowing he contributed to some of it - Sir Terry Pratchett wrote the majority - taints the book and my memory of loving it and the characters.

[@hellogoditsmesara3569]

Council of Geeks has done two very good long breakdowns covering the tortoise podcast’s coverage before the better vulture article came out They also did an exceptionally good job breaking down the nuances of the situation and what it means going forward if you choose to consume media Gaiman was a creative part in They are another excellent resource if you have the time and mental ability to hear discussion of the accusations

[@withcindy]

Thank you for the recommendation!

[@Isabela-Thomas]

Omg !!!!!! What a monster !!!!! I agreed , the wife is a horrible person too. I hope the victims get the help they need and justice is served. I can’t believe the police didn’t do anything!!!! Omg

[@withcindy]

I hope so too. Sadly the police are notorious for being unreliable :/

[@Isabela-Thomas]

@ 🎯💯

[@justadeadinsideghost4111]

I'm so sorry for your loss... I hope you heal and feel better soon

[@withcindy]

thank you

[@mayas3422]

thinking about what you said at the end, that bad people don't necessarily make bad art and good people don't make good art. i really like Gaiman's writing and this horrible news makes me want to swear off male fantasy authors entirely. but female authors aren't inherently better (like just look at JKR). it's hard to read something good and not jump to learning everything about the author, especially as a writer myself. im trying to learn to enjoy art without glorifying the artist. it's hard. also im so sorry for your loss i hope the rest of this year is kinder to you 💕

[@sanaa94b17]

It's pretty extreme to compare an actual abuser of women to JKR, even if you vehemently hate her views. At the end of the day, JKR sees herself as a feminist sticking up for women's rights and safety, even if it's in a way that is now considered controversial (and many women, expecially those of her generation, agree with her because of their perspective on women's rights and how they were hard won)... that's completely different from someone like Gaiman who says all right 'progressive' things but actually hates and abuses women behind closed doors. But these false equivalences of women having currently controversial points of view with actual crimes against women perpetrated by progressive male celebrities are examples of misogyny in both the media and culture we live in. It's not even remotely the same.

[@sambeawesome]

It's funny to hear you mention how you don't read books by male authors. I'm an illustrator, and I've learned to be VERY careful with what male artists I follow or support. I would say, "You wouldn't believe how many turned out to be creeps/predators/assaulters/etc.," but like...you get it lol. It's kind of sad really that all men by default are just suspect, but idk how else to protect myself right now. Even recently, a guy I thought was Left leaning and a feminist, and one I really respected and looked up to, shocked me by supporting and platforming really dangerous men. It sucks and it's tough, but we do have to be careful with how we approach fandom and idolization. In any case, I appreciate hearing your input on the conversation, and I'm very sorry for your loss.

[@withcindy]

It's a painful truth but we have to be vigilant!

[@Sofianunes12]

Btw I can't believe this has to be Said: but no Just because he is a Monster that doesn't excuse J.K Rowling or makes her a better person (Yes there were people saying that It did) one person being horrible doesn't annul the horrible actions of others

[@withcindy]

Agreed 💯

[@CM-pf1xc]

Yeah but jk literally never assaulted anyone. People were just mad at her bc of her stance on gender. I mean I’m not a fan of her or books. Just saying. The hate on jkr is kind of overwrought

[@chwechwe7485]

​@CM-pf1xc I think it's a bit more than that though; when she accused an Olympic athlete of being trans (when that athlete comes from a country where lgbt+ people are literally criminalised), fueling a horrible hate train comes to mind. With Rowling you have to consider that her stances come with a very passionate and hateful but loud following. Even if she doesn't directly, physically hurt someone, she still has a lot of power to cause hurt :/

[@bytesizedbai]

no literally. both people can be (and are) horrible

[@Sofianunes12]

​​​@@CM-pf1xc she uses her money to help anti-trans politics and organizations, she acused a Algerian woman of "being a man" causing a global wave of transphobia towards this woman (who was cis btw), she wrote A FREACKING BOOK! Where the main villain was a serial killer who was "a Man who dresses as woman" in a way to represent trans women, again what Gaiman did was awful and he should rot in jail, but saying the Hate on her is "overwrought" is very naive to say the least

[@wildrodrev]

Firstly, Cindy, I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I lost my grandmother almost ten years ago, and then my grandfather almost five. It doesn't feel real. While the ache may always linger with you, you will grow around it. It'll be tender for years to come, but it will not always hurt so much. Be gentle with yourself in this time and remember it'll take as long as it takes. Secondly, what really strikes me about the article, is that he has a type. Thin, usually short haired brunettes, all who he's above in power. That's. Not a coincidence. He can be replicating the first act (one we don't know about yet) to relive it, or something else is at play here. Rarely do people get so wrapped up in a 'type' of person that they don't move outside of it IMO.

[@HorrorGirlNat]

For me I can never separate the art from the artist because I think about the disgusting things victims go through. I can't imagine what it would be like to hear people praising the work of my abuser or seeing their name on a shelf or their face on a magazine.

[@withcindy]

i imagine it must be anxiety inducing any time his victims see his books in a store :(

[@helenejakobsen2040]

I feel the same. But in that vein, I am also so conflicted about what to do about the Gaiman-books I have at home on my shelf. Like, I will obviously not support that man financially by buying any single work of his ever again, but I also don't feel right selling or giving away the books I own to others, as that would be counter-intuitive, since that would just move the same problem to the next person or, worst case, make someone seek out more of his works. I do subscribe to death of the author, I guess, in the sense that liking some of his previous works (for instance Coraline) (for reasons unrelated to the author's personal brand or life) before these allegations came out, does not mean that you inherently support the author's actions that have been unveiled in the now. I wonder if people would find it unethical to even keep his books at home, privately. And what a good ethical counter-measure would be in that case.

[@alanatedmon3906]

Oh gosh, editing here, but I'm very sorry for your loss Cindy. I hope things will get easier for you soon. I think it's so hard to apply Death of the Author with Neil Gaiman's works because so many of his characters seem like self-inserts, particularly Morpheus. When I think about the way the Sandman becomes furious with Nada when she instructs him to leave her alone, now it just makes me think of Pavlovich. I definitely believe you can have perfectly lovely creators depict horrible, sadistic stories but man, it's haunting now thinking about some of the male characters that Neil wrote who didn't take no for an answer when it came to tormented women. Thanks so much for covering this subject! I was really curious to find out what your feelings were on how to treat Gaiman's art after all this has come out.

[@sammie.1.1.1]

im so sorry for your loss cindy ☹️ take care , we all adore you ❤️❤️

[@withcindy]

Thanks Sammie 💗💗

[@EmmyTheColorQueen]

Hi Cindy! I'm currently working on an MA for English Literature, and your commentary near the end about authors made me think of Michel Foucault's essay "What is An Author?" In it he talks about how much of the author we should consider while reading the work. It's an older essay (1968 I think? Maybe 1969?) but I bring it up because there are practices that scholars use to approach the literature out there that's similar to what you described. Might be something to look into, might not. I thought what you said was very insightful & valuable. Be well ❤

[@AlannaVicious]

One thing I keep thinking about was how he talked about having his former nanny living with him during Covid at one of his speaking events and I'm now wondering what was really happening during this and hope the nanny is safe.

[@withcindy]

i hope that nanny is safe too :(

[@disisally]

The fact that you took the time to research and discuss all of this while going through grief is beyond admirable. As for Gaiman, who has given off a very ominous aura for me since October 7th: it's on sight now 💝

[@kerrek6028]

I think it’s really tone deaf that there’s people acting all self righteous saying that they’ve never read his books or that they suspected he wasn’t a good person based off his writing. What someone does for a living and how well they do that job, doesn’t correlate to how good of a person they are. How they present themselves publicly at conventions or online doesn’t prove anything. Focusing on these things really takes the focus away from the real problem. We should be supporting the victims who’ve suffered because of him and who will forever be impacted by his terrible actions.

[@lucidtofu]

16:55 perfectly said. He is wealthy, he could spend big money to hire professionals who would be perfectly willing and discreet. But he doesn't want someone who would willingly shut their mouth, he wants someone who is forced to. Makes it all the more disgusting.

[@jbearya]

It's crazy how he was tumblr's darling for years- the community was in shambles.

[@AlectoStars]

All of this coming out makes the implications of him being so active on Tumblr troubling in retrospect. Since he went after young fans at cons, it's not hard to imagine why he enjoyed being on the nerdy website.

[@michelletan312]

Apparently in one recent media statement he said he "doesn't like social media". As though he wasn't almost constantly on tumblr for years (he's been pretty much radio silent on there now though.. very telling)

[@floraposteschild4184]

Rich people don't hire poor, young strangers with no experience or professional qualifications to look after their children. Unless they have something else in mind.

[@gabriellehitchins9182]

True, but some of us were naive idiots when we were young.

[@ishathakor]

i can understand wanting to reexamine an author's works when they turn out to be a horrible person but i just can't stand the people who want it to be some kind of proof or warning that we should have seen the entire time. neil gaiman writing women poorly wasn't a flashing warning sign that he's an abuser. it was him writing women poorly. you aren't morally superior to the people who were fans of neil gaiman just because you didn't like his work. you aren't immune to liking art made by bad people. you just didn't like art made by this specific bad person. at a time where victims are coming forward and thousands of people are trying to come to terms with the fact that a writer they looked up to is an abuser, you aren't helping by making the conversation about how you are so special because you never liked him. this isn't about you

[@withcindy]

Agree! I think ppl want validation in their tastes in art, but this is not the time. The victims stories take precedence over the quality or lack of quality of the predator's art

[@ishathakor]

@@withcindy exactly. you can privately feel relieved or talk about it to your friends, but it's just ridiculous to start talking about that publicly. the focus should be on the victim's stories and you can look for validation of your taste in the old fashioned way by arguing with people who don't like your favourite book.

[@SaberNezumi]

My condolences for your loss. Gaiman's statement (newsletter?) after the article was published is such bullshit. The guy doesn't even understand that a woman who is financially dependent on him to the point described cannot consent. Among many other atrocities.

[@ShardReaper]

I'm sorry for your loss

[@motherrussia73]

I always really loved Neil Gaiman's work, and it was extremely formative to my growing up (basically from elementary school with Coraline all the way to high school with American Gods). I lent one of his short story collections to an ex who would go on to assault and stalk me, and getting that book back (an acquaintance had to literally steal it for me) felt like getting a piece of my old self back. I was crushed when the allegations came out this summer, but unfortunately not surprised. I don't say that because I'm suddenly doubling back and saying those behaviors were personified by his work, but rather he is man who was granted enormous influence by the industry and he wielded that power to abuse and harm others like so many men before him. Preventing this kind of behavior requires systemic changes, and I sincerely hope we move towards making them before another Gaiman-type author is able to hurt someone. In the meantime I hope the consequences he faces in his career are actually permanent, rather than him being able to re-emerge in a few years or spin public sentiment to attacking the victims (like with Johnny Depp and most recently Justin Baldoni). I just want a world where women's bodies and well-beings are not the collateral damage for the egos of successful men.

[@withcindy]

It sounds like you've been through a lot, and I'm so sorry for all you've endured. Absolutely agree that systemic changes need to happen so that predatory men are not enabled to harm others

[@frankundercoverdragon6288]

As a queer fantasy reader, I constantly saw Neil gaiman praised for his allyship and books and when the news broke I saw so many people upset and betrayed and confused because of the queer themes in his work. And tho I empathize with those ppl and see why his works were important, I really wish more energy would be given to queer writers (and writers making queer stories cus not everyone wants to come out). I genuinely feel for the ppl who found queerness in fantasy through him and I hope they explore beyond him and men like him. There’s so many great queer fantasy stories that deserve the attention books like good omens and sandman got, we absolutely do not need him and should stop celebrating individuals for queer fantasy but rather the queer fantasy community at large

[@withcindy]

Very well said! There's sooo many queer fantasy authors now more than ever and we should focus on platforming them rather than another cis straight white man

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Quote of the Day: “Let’s just eat a protein bar and just, like, digest how horrible people are.”

[@withcindy]

sadly munching on granola

[@phoenix-hi1bo]

I skipped the actual stories, but amazing analyses! I'm german and in the last months a really popular 'leftist feminist' white man and a white boygroup also presenting themselves as feminists have been called out for typical patriarchal behaviour. (Not as brutal as Neil Gaiman, but stuff like supporting abusers and mistreating women) People were really shocked by the discrepancy of their behaviour and how they presented themself as feminists actively all the while their behaviour in private spoke different.... We've had some huge discussions over here and it really inspired me to just decenter white men in my life even more. There really is no reason to idealize white men who advocate for basic rights for women, when there are so many actual activists to support and uplift!

[@mabimabi2952]

I hate when artists are revealed to be bad people and people keep focusing on the art they make as "proof". Like "I should've known bc in his book, there's this and this and this". I hate it because it seems people are talking about it like the victims should've known somehow, or the fans should've known. And sure, sometimes, people's morals are very obvious in their art, but sometimes not. Art is very subjective and is also a business after all. And also, we shouldn't be focusing on whether or not he's a good writer, whether his art is good. We should be focusing on his REAL LIFE crimes that are affecting REAL PEOPLE. His writing is secondary.

[@minkstar9021]

Terry Pratchett would be so disappointed. That was a man whose books made a central point about countering the absurdity of the cultural expectations women faced throughout society. To see someone he regarded as a good friend treat women, or just people in general, like this… it’s actually heartbreaking to think about. Hopefully the victims can rest assured knowing their stories are told and believed.

[@lillianabright03]

we shoudlnt idealise terry pratchett either, we dont know who he was behind the scenes

[@zodlord5669]

What about all the other artists that write smut, GRRM, The lady who wrote 50 shades, so many if not all authors who write adult content are you gonna say they all don't have a dark side? So you are just gonna believe all women? No evidence just believe all women. Yeah no thanks bro.

[@nont18411]

We should just appreciate Terry for his works, but not as a person. Who knows what he has been doing all these times?

[@Sandreline]

Nope. This falls into the same trap. You don't know Terry Pratchett. Presumably, you've only read his books. You don't know what kind of man he was.

[@niyatisavur919]

​@@zodlord5669there's enough evidence in this case. Stop changing the subject.

[@Skibobsmells]

Gaiman was answering questions on Tumblr and interacting with fans all the way up to when the early allegations broke in 2024. He was pretty popular to start with and got boosted even further by the fan culture around the Good Omens TV show. The way he spoke with fans always came off as a little too parasocial to me-- it made me uncomfortable to read some of these interactions. Emotionally vulnerable fans would often send him asks about really personal stuff and he didn't hesitate to answer them in... I guess an overly familiar way? In a public place where anyone could see them. People would fawn over him in the replies and reblogs no matter what he said. Now that we know about his predatory behavior, these interactions have gone from uncomfortable to alarming to me. I really sincerely hope he did not target fans this way.

[@Adara007]

While I preferred Sir Terry Pratchett's Discworld to Gaiman's work I have a friend who, many years ago now, used to be active on Tumblr and she was a fan of NG until he sent messages to her private inbox that she felt extremely uncomfortable by. Essentially he was DMing messages that came across as sexual banter and suggesting the possibility of meeting up in person for what wouldn't have been just a platonic matter. She blocked him and now is thinking he may have done this to others via sites like Tumblr to prey on young women.

[@Skibobsmells]

@Adara007 I'm relieved your friend kept things from going further, but yeah, this makes me worry about other fans he interacted with online.

[@samyen3210]

As someone in the good omens fandom ive been hearing about this since the news first came out and i think you did an excellent job with this video. That last point about morality and art is something I myself was thinking for a while but wasn’t able to properly articulate.

[@exhaustedbaking]

I'm sorry for your loss Cindy, and I'm also grateful that you took the time out from what must be a very difficult period to address this. I wasn't able to read past NG approaching the bath in the article, so I really appreciate the people online who are summarising what happened. Even if I struggle I still want to be informed and support these women, so thank you for putting that work in. I hope you're able to get some rest and take care of yourself.

[@withcindy]

thank you, i'm slowly getting back into a regular routine but it's still hard for this person's loved ones who are grieving. we're trying our best though

[@dervy5935]

I dont think i can ever explain the feelings i had when the news about Neil Gaiman broke. I have never felt such betrayl in my life, i dont think i will ever trust another author again in my life

[@withcindy]

Im sorry for the betrayal you're feeling :(

[@samyen3210]

As someone who is very familiar with this man and his internet persona I think the best thing the everyday person can do is make him irrelevant and never let this man in this industry again. Discourage studios from hiring him. Remind companies that bring him on what he’s done. NG is someone who LOVES public attention. Make him irrelevant and impossible to hire. Unfortunately I dont think criminal charges will be charged but I hope he is sued for everything he has.

[@bonferri]

I got shocked when that article came out not only because I was not expecting such news about him but also because of the severity of his action

[@withcindy]

I didn't expect it to be so graphic :/

[@bonferri]

@withcindy right? sending prayers to the victims, I hope they get their well deserved justice and healing

[@dragonexe2297]

Thank you for this video, especially the last part where you point out that creator and art aren't the same. I hate that people always try to police what other people talk about in their works of fiction when alligations like this come up. For every Gaiman who actually acts on the dark things they write about there are a hundred who would never do that, who deal with said dark things in a safe environment like fiction. In the end, trying to tell people what they can and can't write about doesn't help anyone, and I'm always annoyed when people try to tell me that 'of course I knew they are a bad person, didn't you see what they created in a fictional context??'

[@RimaReads]

I read part of the article and it was so disgusting, I couldn’t finish it.

[@withcindy]

Yeah it's a tough read 😞

[@Freakingcurly]

Also, in 9:50 I think you meant Scarlett instead of Amanda "Scarlett filed a police report about Neil Gaiman..."

[@withcindy]

Yes I did! Thanks for catching

[@feryalthepirate437]

Hi Cindy, I’m very sorry for your loss and hope the year will start being kinder to you. I’m sending empathy and positive vibes through the ether of the internet.

[@withcindy]

thank you, i hope the year will be kinder to all of us!

[@aishayay]

sending you my condolences for your loss ❤ having lost somebody as well, it's so hard to process the grief even after years. i can only commend you for still being able to make this, i hope this year treats you better soon 💗

[@withcindy]

thank you, and i hope youre doing okay too

[@hipstamom]

I read this article last week and I had to stop because of the flashbacks. I took a mental health day after that. Thank you for posting this!

[@withcindy]

I hope you're taking care of yourself!

[@hipstamom]

@@withcindy thankfully I'm doing much better now. Hugs!

[@lindslindslinds]

I always fall for the image that celebrities sell. I’m working on creating distance between myself and famous people I love as I get older but I can’t help myself from loving people who make art I connect with

[@withcindy]

it sounds like youre at least aware of this though which is huge! and in an ideal world you should be able to love art and their artists without fear of them being terrible

[@sarahtaylor4264]

I've never been a Gaiman fan, but I read a book of his here and there growing up and liked them. I watched Good Omens based on Dominic Noble's recommendation. It is absolutely in my top 5 pieces of television ever made. I know most of the credit goes to Pratchett, but I don't think it will ever be quite the same.

[@SapphireChristella]

Thank you for making this video. I honestly didn’t know what was going on with this, but when I saw you made a video about it, I knew that you would handle the topic with care. Not glee for this person being exposed as a monster. I knew you’d show care and compassion for the women harmed by him.

[@withcindy]

thanks so much for listening!

[@EranRaye]

The closing conclusion that bad art doesn't mean bad people is actually so important

[@itsdivyag]

firstly sending you love g and i'm sorry for your loss. i hope the year is full of joy and healing for you ! on Neil, omg 19:30 sends shivers.. the performance is disgusting. your point on filling the archetype is so real. i think it's linked to the idea of the bar being on the floor so when men position themselves as 'safe', alongside white privilege, people latch onto that so strongly

[@withcindy]

Love u Divya, ty ❤️

[@TofuDinoNugs]

I skipped the part about what specifically he did because I’ve read a bit about it and don’t want to hear more so thank you for marking it. I still watched the rest of the video

[@withcindy]

Understandable and I'm glad you're taking care of yourself ❤️

[@luci_lene]

Same

[@glynislily]

I really needed to hear this. I have really struggled with this situation because he has been such an inspiration for my writing, but like he’s a fucking monster. I have just sort of hit a wall with my creativity because of just the disappointment. Thank you.

[@withcindy]

Definitely understand hitting a wall after this, but I'm sure your writing and art will lead a better example 💗

[@bluebow5014]

Fingers crossed Gaiman experiences six times the level of misery you’ve experienced this month Hope things get better for you, queen! 💙

[@Politoed89]

i definitely agree about people online feeling the need to create a 'moral' reason to dislike things. it's always really bothered me. it feels like it trivializes the actual problems involved, and i've noticed that it disproportionately is directed at women and LGBT people. i've seen people full-on wish violence on taylor swift "because of her private jet emissions", and even though she does deserve criticism for that, am i really supposed to believe that they just care SO much about the environment that they couldn't help themselves from being threatening? they're not showing that much rage towards the koch brothers. and yet they seem convinced it has NOTHING to do with misogyny, and it baffles me. it seems like every week the internet decides they all hate a new woman or gay man or transgender person or etc etc

[@rosestewart4543]

it's also difficult for me to believe Palmer never saw that side of Gaiman and at least in part justified her enabling with 'better that he's doing it to women who aren't me'. paired with the knowledge from the article that up to a certain point, she was seemingly encouraging him to get professional help, it's discouraging that she acted this self-serving and exploitative of women who were often her fans as well instead. the whole thing is a very harrowing example of how women can be caught up in dysfunctional/abusive relationships and still choose to abuse others because it's easier than addressing the root of the problem.

[@abbypierce4196]

Ive never been so fucking disgusted by an author I liked before. It’s such a reality check that we really have no idea who these people are behind closed doors. And I HATE that there is a common theme of abusive men spouting how much they value and respect women. We need men to advocate for us, but often times the ones yelling the loudest seem to be the biggest monsters in their private life.

[@withcindy]

my theory for why the loudest ones are the most hypocritical is because they're still centering themselves above the actual marginalized ppl theyre supposedly an ally to