Wizards of the Coast Executive Producer on the D&D OGL Controversy | Asking the Hard Questions

Liv and Jeremy had the chance to sit down with Kyle Brink, Wizards of the Coast's Executive Producer, to give us a little more insight into what exactly went on with the OGL, the sudden change of heart concerning it and why exactly we didn't get much of a real response until it was too late.
All that and more are included in 3 Black Halfling's uncompromising interview. Let us know what you think, is this enough?
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[@TheAurgelmir]

"We want to stop the mega corporations" - said the Corporation when caught doing corporation things.

[@RicardoPM777]

Giant, Disney level, corporations= 100k a year .... roll a bluff check with disadvantage

[@aralornwolf3140]

and -5 on the roll as well... target DC is 20.

[@NecromancyForKids]

"The second the community was hurt, we dropped it like a hot rock" is a massive lie. The whole process took a month, and very little change was made during that time, directly going against the wishes of the community again and again. This man must like holding onto hot rocks for a very long time.

[@Talenel]

They dropped it like a hot rock that they clung to until it burnt through their hands.

[@Septimus_ii]

A month after they sent out confidential final contracts with a deadline to sign

[@garethcurry1527]

Soooo, still can’t admit they did wrong? And now you lash out against “diversity”? I won’t be buying anymore wotc content I bought my first pathfinder book because of this shortsighted greed. And to be honest I wont be looking back. I’ve unfollowed beyond on twitter and Dm’s guild may need to go next… There are plenty of other ttrpg’s outside of D&D. I invite anyone to go seek those games that speak to you.

[@sage_justice1383]

@@Septimus_ii still have never seen actual confirmation of that allegation. Even the Kickstarter claim didn’t state a deadline to sign and not one credible source ever put a deadline out. If they did, I never saw it and no prominent creator ever showed proof. Just commenters with “trust me bro” sources. Wizards/Hasbro screwed up, to be sure, but people are still making false allegations as to in what ways they did so.

[@sage_justice1383]

@@garethcurry1527 said multiple times that they made mistakes and errors through the process. You sound like the people doing this interview. Never were gonna be pleased unless the entire WOTC library was gifted to you for free and even then you’d still say it’s not enough.

[@Indestructoboy]

If $750,000 a year is their threshold for a "large corporation", I wonder if they've seen Hasbro's annual revenue.

[@EnriqueCajigas]

Exactly, if they afraid of the Mouse or the robot man, $750K is peanuts for them.

[@sillvvasensei]

D&D is one small part of Hasbro's revenue. The $750,000 threshold was only pertaining to revenue from TTRPG content products that used the SRD/OGL, not overall gross revenue of the creator/company. Their belief, at the time, was that at $750,000 you stop being a "small" D&D creator.

[@123TheMpoMan321]

@@sillvvasensei WotC, with mainly just D&D and MTG is responsible for approximately 2/3 of Hasbro's value. So I wouldn't call D&D a "small part" of their revenue. (Don't have the source for this off the top of my head, but it was cited quite a few times in a lot of articles during the initial long silence, as a reason why they were trying to increase monetization of D&D and MTG so heavily over that last year or so)

[@123TheMpoMan321]

And essentially any product that a company like Disney might make using the OGL would have been in the tens, if not hundreds of millions range. I'd definitely say I agree that $750k is quite a low cap. That being said, I imagine it was something pushed by a very specific group of those stakeholders involved. (Like he says in the interview, some of those contributors only priority was protecting the IP, I am certain that there were contributors who's only priority was monetizing that IP in any way possible)

[@gypster2004]

That number was directly aimed at VTTs and 3PPs, NOT large corps Don’t believe WoTC #StayMadAtWotc

[@B.-T.]

Right off I'm just bewildered that their excuse for this OGL 1.1 was "we were scared Facebook's Metaverse would steal away our fans"......

[@CharalamposKoundourakis]

It's not a crazy thing to be worried about. Wouldn't be the first time meta did something comparable, Heck they singlehandedly halted the sketch comedy boom

[@TheCharlesFr]

The "harm" that he's referring to is that they are afraid that somebody else could make a better VTT than they could (which is already true anyways).

[@the11382]

@@CharalamposKoundourakisThe metaverse was a billions of dollars failure way before December. Nobody was happy with it. The metaverse is something companies want, but not customers.

[@gypster2004]

It’s a lie 😂

[@ashtongaskill3980]

"What if Facebook makes a "D&D space" in their platform and does bad things with it?" Well its a good thing the OGL didn't and doesn't let you use the term "D&D" so they couldn't and can't call it that. That whole argument was moot from the start. They can make a ttrpg space and have rules similar to or maybe even compatible with D&D but if they really wanted to they could have skirted just close enough to avoid any legal trouble with or without an updated OGL. Hard to believe anything else he's going to say is worth listening to when his first point is so entirely unfounded.

[@StrangeCreed]

This man is the best advertisement Paizo could have asked for! 🤣

[@jbdxiii]

I'm starting to think WotC is intentionally trying to tank D&D.

[@spacerx]

Most people at Paizo would (and have) said variations on that same theme.

[@StrangeCreed]

@@spacerx Then they'll learn to keep their mouths shut if this is what puts WotC in the dirt for good.

[@spacerx]

@@StrangeCreed Will they, though? Have Disney learned that? Or Hollywood in general? I'm skeptical that these dysfunctional rejects will abandon their cult behavior because of something so banal as money.

[@StrangeCreed]

​@@spacerx I have faith that something niche like tabletop gaming will. They can't rely on the same shit that bails out Hollywood and the House of Mouse. If the players aren't buyin', the company's dyin'. WotC forgot how much competition they had, and Paizo's swimming in that same river.

[@rogue1573]

People of all color should be able to play these games and make them. Color of your skin should not matter at all in any way what so ever.

[@harrymason4300]

Black people have always been able to play tabletop games. There has never been some tabletop apartheid. The reason people are complaining is because WOTC hires minority employees who are terrible at their jobs, and were obviously only brought in to make WOTC look good. It's racist and condescending.

[@nicka3697]

How can royalty payments that make a 1.2 million pound kickstarter totally unprofitable possibly be aimed at mega corporations like Disney? It was very clearly aimed at the likes of Ghostfire Games or Alchemy VTT. To claim otherwise is duplicitous.

[@nicka3697]

The responses certainly improved as the discussion continued. Thank you for putting this out.

[@telprydain1]

Because it was clearly designed to force projects over a certain size into formal contracts (like Crit Role). This isn't to excuse them, but it seems obvious.

[@nicka3697]

@telprydain1 by the time you know your kickstarter has overperformed you are already facing financial ruin. Not the best time to start negotiations with a corporation that already has the legal ability to take 25% of your pledge and sell your work as their own say in electronic format on dndbeyond. Why would they save your neck unless they can coerce you into giving them your popular IP and writing a couple more books just for them?

[@Caluardo]

It was to stop huge companies from...wait, I don't mean huge companies like us...I mean...which big companies will people think are evil...Disney...like Disney...and Facebook...

[@dwculp]

Honestly, I believe the upper management had no idea about Kickstarters and only see companies like Paizo. They are not immersed in the hobby and probably had little knowledge of Kickstarters.

[@029132]

This is how to drive a business straight into the ground.

[@RobbyMaQ]

I think their best bet is to just stay silent because everytime one of their 'leaders' discuss the hobby, they prove how out of touch they are with their customers more and more.

[@idontwanttopickone]

My thoughts entirely! The whole "it was a draft" lie is so pointless at this point. No one hands out draft documents to people outside a company without plastering DRAFT watermarks all over it. If they are doing that then that should be a major red flag to investors and consumers that this company is being seriously mismanaged! As for worrying about META. 1. They know META could just buy or remake Table Top Simulator and WotC/Hasbro couldn't stop people using that to play TTRPGs. I hope they know that? If they don't, they should pull in that 19 year old intern and ask them about the computer games they play. 2. D&D has been competing with the digital space since the 80s and now they decide to worry about that?! Why are they worrying about that now? Why... because Hasbro/WotC is in the process of becoming a huge digital company with a small table top department. But, they don't really know how to handle that transition and I don't really believe they fully understand the space they are stepping into. From their actions so far it feels like they fell in that direction accidentally and now are trying to run into it before they can walk. I think Games Workshop have had similar experiences, but I think they have handled it better by not attempting to remove the table top space entirely, like WotC were clearly trying to do, and instead encouraging people to use both digital and table top by giving positive reasons to use both or either. I'm going to give WotC and Hasbro a miss until they have something positive to talk about. Until then, I am going to enjoy seeing what all the smaller companies and creators can make with this new found attention and excitement for other systems.

[@akashambatwamiller6924]

that did not work either

[@capt.scarecrow]

@@idontwanttopickone The internet didn't exist in the 80's, so there wouldn't have been the "competition" you're talking about

[@higgsbonbon]

@@capt.scarecrow Why are you claiming knowledge in a topic you're clearly clueless about? Multi User Dungeons have existed as long as computers could communicate with each other. EssexMUD was developed and connected to ARPANet in 1980.

[@TheOGGMsAdventures]

@@capt.scarecrow yes it did, it was called AOL

[@scetchmonkey007]

Kyle admits that quote "I disagree and committed" meaning in context WoTC employers that did disagree were just ignored and forced to commit because they had no choice but to sign off on it, because corporate matters more than they do or the community.

[@shotgun2010]

as with any large business, the only thing that matters are the shareholders.

[@Marinealver]

Instead of disagree and commit, It should have been DISAGREE AND QUIT!

[@scetchmonkey007]

@@Marinealver Kyle is now an unapologetic racist A$$, he is with Hasbro because he is the problem.

[@NemoOhd20]

@@shotgun2010 Wrong, the corporate officers, who even at Wizards know nothing about gaming. In other words the Hasbros execs who have plans on making 8 figure bonuses if they microtransaction D&D players into a billion dollar brand. Shareholders have almost no power to stop the officers from raiding a corporation and even running it into the ground (again).

[@ShadowOfThePoet]

For anyone looking for more of the interviews with Kyle, Ginny D has posted her interview as well. She is linking all of the other interviews in the video description. That's how I made my way here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGmQY6yfe7llhrc

[@ulfhazelcreek8108]

Same.

[@thejoester]

So let me get this straight, they CAN “turn on a dime” when it came to feedback from third-party publishers, but when tens of thousands of users start canceling their l subscriptions costing them a lot of money and bad PR right before the movie comes out, they are suddenly unable to? Do they not understand how ridiculous they sound? On top of that it makes them sound completely and utterly incompetent.

[@Marinealver]

49:25 the quote that sealed this interview.

[@Micah_S_0x4D]

At worst this is pandering to the question; he didn't bring up diversity, Jeremy did. In context of the question, though, he made a point that hiring of diverse individuals isn't about "who they are" (i.e. their identity) but because "they are awesome at their job" (48:27) and that is a respectable answer.

[@derekthomas2940]

Thanks man, didn't wanna watch 50 minutes of this dog shit to just to hear the context for a racially charged question.

[@thorinbane]

@@Micah_S_0x4D Thats a post hate dump corporate answer. Its not like he wasn't coached before this interview. Hasbro probably hired some PR(or as it was once called propaganda) firm to help make them look less horrid.

[@Eamil]

9:50 He's pretty full of it here. They cancelled their OGL announcement stream *at the last minute* and the FAQ page they were going to post along with it was leaked and included attempts at justifying everything he said they were "in the process of backing away from," including the royalty scheme and the "license-back" language. I'm willing to believe his statements about their plans for the future because those are obviously things we can hold them to going forward, but I don't believe a word he says about the behind-the-scenes justifications for how the OGL 1.1 mess happened.

[@JacksonOwex]

I don't know about that! They hadn't actually streamed there in a few weeks! That might have been someone knowing that people going to chat and blowing it up would get someone's attention, which is appeared to in some way! It's hard to say though, maybe they did, maybe they didn't!

[@namelessjedi2242]

Yes, the liar from the lying company has lied again. No surprise.

[@dwil0311]

I think it’s pretty well accepted that it’s a lie. But it’s a lie that WotC corporate has decided to stand it’s ground on and Kyle Brink likely has no say on that particular part of the messaging. They are pot committed on it at this point, it’s far too late to admit to that lie. And it’s mostly inconsequential at this point.

[@albertonishiyama1980]

I also tough it was baffling how he called the 2.0 creation process as "perfecting it"... ... you know, the one that has all of the exact same problems 1.1 did but was written like a legit Archdevil Pact Contract full of loopholes and weird legal bs to camuflage their Intentions. When he talked about "looking at the community and puting what they say in the new one" the part of 2.0 that says "this OGL will be irrevocable (what means it's revocable in the right circunstances)" comes to mind.

[@Crushanator1]

Yeah, weird how they took 2 years writing 1.1, then somehow needed 1.2 to be perfect while corporate was simultaneously waiting to see how bad it would actually be financially. Weird! Probably a coincidence tho lol

[@meatpuppet5036]

"We're not the majority any more" So surely that group should be a protected minority, right? But no they can't "leave soon enough" according to this bigot

[@thebaron512]

self hating bigot.

[@kristianschultz431]

Ya that statement was weird. If he thinks he needs to be replaced, because he's a white male, he should be talking to his therapist about it. I think he only said that because he was told that's what this channels audience would want to hear. It's pretty out of touch from any angle.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

Without White Males the hobby would never have existed, and will not last.

[@nielsdejong]

A few people in my D&D online group actually defended him saying that, saying that it was “different” if it was towards white people. They are normal looking people mind you, so hearing that they were brainwashed to such an extend came as a shock.

[@carbootstudios2459]

By his own logic, Kyle can't leave fast enough.

[@Deprived_Dolphin]

This dude is so convoluted and has no idea how to make a company like D&D grow more.

[@carbootstudios2459]

@@Deprived_Dolphin Seems so

[@theminormiracle]

That's exactly what he said. It's not a gotcha where he literally admits executives including himself leaving soon is good for the industry. He can't wait to have someone better than him replace him when he retires, and the sooner the better. You can believe he's lying, but him being sincere would just mean he's showing exactly what's on the tin.

[@carbootstudios2459]

@@theminormiracle Right…

[@TheTomoyaNagase]

@@theminormiracle someone failed their insight check with a nat 1, huh?

[@gamemasters]

soo.... IF 1.1 was initially designed for "companies like Disney"... what did those companies have in regards to feedback? I cry BS. Re Draft with signature lines : IF it was only a draft.. then why did Kickstarter speak openly about striking a deal with Wizards based on that "draft"? again.. I cry BS. wow.. Liv and Jeremy, you two are on FIRE and I thank you HUMBLY for asking Kyle some super tough questions that we all have been asking. Wonderful job, thank you thank you thank you!

[@jessicascoullar3737]

“Companies like Disney…” You mean like Hasbro?

[@chrisg1598]

Guys like you can't leave the hobby fast enough, you say? Amen to that. Just not for the reason you think.

[@phloog]

Wild that racism is somehow okay again.

[@chrisg1598]

@@phloog It never was. Don't be taken in by this grift.

[@TheOGGMsAdventures]

I will happily take my money and not spend it at WOTC since you no longer want me to play your game

[@brycenerdstrom567]

God some of y’all are melodramatic babies

[@Unregistered.HyperCam.2]

Guys like Kyle, yes. People that don't understand how racist, discriminatory, xenophobic they actually are because they think they're being "uplifting" and "inclusive," when really they're being infantalizing to any of "us" that are not one of "them."

[@cesartolentino2817]

This will become a classic case of what a corporation should not do, and this will end up on business management and marketing courses.

[@ESC_907]

Man, this guy CLEARLY received talking points from Corporate… If only they knew that it is only making them seem worse!

[@PsyrenXY]

They would have to be absolute idiots to not give him talking points though

[@ESC_907]

@@PsyrenXY but for those points to keep pushing the obvious lie that 1.1 was a draft? Disappointed that they did not pressure him more on how a draft should not come with a binding contract.

[@PsyrenXY]

@Emerson Conger good god get over it already, 1.1 is dead, who cares what it was. Some of yall just want to stay mad forever

[@dhavaram8064]

@@PsyrenXY it is important that they keep denying that they tried to force OGL 1.1 through and that it wasnt a draft. The people that attempted to do this are STILL THERE @ WotC. It speaks to our ability to trust them not to try this kind of thing again. YES I want people to stay mad until they change their corporate culture.

[@JacksonOwex]

@@PsyrenXY And we damn well should be! "Some of yall just want to..." go back to getting stabbed and then have WotC piss in the wound!!! This is NOT the first time WotC/Hasbro has tried some disgusting BS with a license for D&D, it was only worse this time, and NEXT time it will be EVEN worse than this was(there WILL be a next time too, you can count on that)!!! We're not dumb enough to be fooled thrice! And this doesn't even include the BS they've done with Magic, that's a WHOLE other mess!

[@tiffanym1108]

The gaslighting! Oh my god!

[@greedygremlin7471]

All I hear from Kyle is corporate BS. He has confirmed to me what I think is the base issue with Wizards though, they are completely out of touch with the community who play the game and think we are all too stupid to understand what their intention is and think we will all blindly keep buying their low quality books and will go back to D&D beyond.

[@benry007]

Honestly I wouldn't mind the corporate BS if they just published decent books but they are getting worse and worse. It feels like no one sits down and tries to play them at a table prior to publishing them. They should be hiring actual play testers rather then relying just on the public play test.

[@richardmoreno5445]

It is obvious that he met with a publicist prior to this interview to know what he could say and how to say it, in order to try to protect WotC from further harm. But in my opinion, the damage is done. I will never trust WotC nor Hasbro again. I don't want to buy their substandard books anymore. I don't want 5.5/6 E. Long live the ORC!

[@pedrojustice]

I bet the interview was entirely scripted by WotC, a shame this channel lowered itselft to bend and take it from behind

[@geraldaugustus739]

@@pedrojustice lol, wut? Jeremy is laying into Kyle, not letting him dodge aspects of the questions, and clearly getting heated. Missing a ton of social queues, ma guy.

[@pedrojustice]

@@geraldaugustus739 i would never call thst laying on someone Clearly we have different definitions. The verbose of the questions, dude Its the least amount of "mea culpa" that could exist, and an arbitrary and amorphous generic enemy The Classic "it wasnt my team fault, its the eeeeevil hasbro overlords." Dude assumed their position not six months ago, right?

[@Hyalucent]

"Lost sight of the impact on the people we weren't concerned about..." - This interview is full of fresh insights into the mentality behind the scenes.

[@LynTheWitch]

Yeah, he basically said « we were like, creators? Oh sht we totally forgot about those, we never think about them » xD Alright then!

[@JSzekely]

Don’t worry, Kyle. Me and my friends will be having a lot of fun playing Pathfinder.

[@justininexile3445]

49:21 So leave, and take Chris Cao with you!

[@aralornwolf3140]

Don't forget Cynthia Williams... we don't need a "recurrent spending model" for TTRPGs...

[@aaronbono4688]

I think you got about as honest and open of answers as you could expect to get from a guy who would like to keep his job.

[@LtCdrRoyFokker]

But he said that people like him can't get gone quick enough either from the company and/or the playerbase. He should make space for someone else unless he's not being honest as a corporate spokesperson...

[@aaronbono4688]

@@LtCdrRoyFokker right somebody's just going to just quit their job and lose their livelihood because you think they should. Even if he did it wouldn't change anything and in fact him staying and making efforts to improve the situation, it's probably going to make more of an impact than him just quitting and them replacing him with some other white guy that will tow the corporate line.

[@rdmsh]

ORC and BlackFlag is the future of the hobby

[@JacksonOwex]

Well, NON-D&D games as a whole! I won't avoid a game just because it isn't part of the ORC or isn't compatible with Black Flag!

[@namelessjedi2242]

Along with everyone realizing they can create their own content. There’s no reason to hitch your wagon to any one company or game. Take all the inspiration there is and tailor it to your own games.

[@MightyGachiman]

Not with the morality clauses they tried to sneak in...

[@richardmoreno5445]

Long live the ORC and raise the Blag Flag high!

[@thejoester]

Disagree. We don’t need ORC. Creative Commons already exists, just use that!

[@DM_Bluddworth]

Hasbro has lost nearly $5.00 per share since this video went up on Monday. Good job Kyle Brinks, I think your shareholders can’t see you leave soon enough either. I predict you don’t make it passed Monday.

[@The.Greene.Dragon]

Here's hoping.

[@infern0711]

I work in engineering. I see unpublished drafts all the time. Every document has a watermark or other indicator that it is a draft. How does a publication company not have a similar process?

[@AnonAdderlan]

To be fair legal contracts are slightly different, in that there's no such thing as a draft. They're either signed or rejected and renegotiated. And had this 'draft' been signed it would absolutely be legally binding.

[@erikitter6773]

​@@AnonAdderlan Who is (in good faith) calling that "draft" though? That is offering a contract and rejecting and offering another. I see how the difference is small enough that people think they can get away with the claim, but it is not true. When I ask a lawyer for the latest draft for the new contracts he is not providing me with the latest contract offered to another company, but the latest internal version circulated internally between company stakeholders (what he did talk about with regards to why it took a week), not something being offered to many other companies (it might happen in very integrated collabarative/dependet environments, but usually on 1:1 basis only).

[@joshuabrown5904]

I like how he frames everything they did as if it was all "for the fans" and "to protect the game" because it is what they thought we wanted but they just got it wrong. Like "oops we didn't realize we were giving ourselves the ability to steal all of your content, SOOO SOORRRY GUUUUYYYSSS!!!". Just when I was trying to give WOTC a second chance and then they send this guy out to lie through his teeth. I feel like my soul needs a bath after listening to this creep literally make shit up on the spot.

[@searchforsecretdoors]

Thank you for not pulling any punches. You asked hard questions and Kyle gave profoundly mediocre answers. Even if we take his answers at face value, it is clear that their corporate culture is disfunctional.

[@pedrojustice]

You know the worst? I bet the interview was entirely scripted by WotC Come on... All the questions were readly answered with corporate speak

[@ActualDrunkAtheist]

Yeah I wouldn't call these hard questions, they weren't Biden softballs but they weren't hard.

[@mdtexeira]

@@pedrojustice All questions are easily answered with corporate speak. It is specifically designed to be able to take any question, no matter how in depth, and reply to it with a nothing answer. It is the language of bullshit...and you don't need a script to speak it if it's practically your native language.

[@GinnyDi]

So glad you guys got to do this interview, and you asked a bunch of great questions!!

[@3BlackHalflings]

Thanks so much, Ginny! We're so glad that we could help the community get some answers

[@imbshissl]

It was good until ~48:00 when Kyle talked about the implification of removing white men from dnd. Crazy take. Should have just kept that a thought because the backlash is pretty incredible.

[@gabrielrognon6238]

@@imbshissl Honestly I think this is blown out of proprortion, what he say was "people like me can get out soon enougth" I think he was talking about the white men who took all the decision position in WOTC at the time the game was a thing they were the only one playing". It's about position of power not evolving as quickly as the community on things that matter. Hence the follow up sentence "I hire people better than me to let them the place" (or something like that). He was speaking about WOTC head, not the community.

[@mobi2289]

@@gabrielrognon6238 listen to that whole segment again. He does talk about a race leaving corporate and being excited about it, which is still racist, but also he did say that white people can't leave the hobby fast enough. Which is still racist, but this time aimed at the ttrpg community.

[@gabrielrognon6238]

@@mobi2289 he never said "white people can't leave the hobby fast enought" he said "people like me" after being asked about the lake of diversity at the head of WOTC. He answered that new people were being engaged but they were still "proving them self", he then said that they were meant to replace them at the head as the community had evolved and said that people like him couldn't leave soon enougth. I stand by my thinking that "people like him" meant old cis male holding most of the decision making at WOTC. It wouldn't make any sens in any context to wish for the loss of a large part of the community, it wouldn't be logical financially, wouldn't be logical on a woke point neither etc...

[@8Smoker8]

This should become another PR nightmare for WotC. Don't let it go.

[@crowgoblin]

48:19 was enjoying the talk, right up to this point

[@dancing2squirrel]

Thank you for posting the time stamp. I wanted to hear, what he exactly said and in which context.

[@matt_lvl1351]

I still can’t believe he said what he said.

[@rein2889]

While what he said was out there. Most everything leading up to that was corporate double speak or outright BS.

[@JacksonOwex]

I guess I'm supposed to know that you are a black, flying, fire loving creature, you know cause your DESIGNATION tells me what you are apparently!!! Wait! Do D&D goblins also like fire or is that a Pathfinder thing?! I don't know anymore, too many lores in my head to keep straight!

[@wc5144]

"CIS" is a clear sign of whom they are and how they think when they use that word seriously.

[@vladgdc]

To me Kyle Brink sounds like a person who's received clear orders, with their job on the line, on what they're not allowed to speak about, including their actual opinion on stuff they didn't know about and/or didn't have a say on. It reads as standard corporate stuff. I, personally, choose to interpret the lack of actual negation on some of the accusations as trying not to personally lie, even if corporate would have preferred it. I think this based on the fact that most questions about themselves and things under their control they had no problem answering, on the fact that when asked of stuff outside that the answers always made it about that and the fact that when they couldn't evade the question by going there we got into word definitions and technically true territory.

[@the11382]

Ultimately the CEO is not calling the shots, the investors are. So Hasbro can say they don't do something, then be overruled by the investors putting pressure on the company. Pressure can be a lot of things.

[@dwil0311]

Yeah, it’s pretty easy to see what’s going on. I think you hit the nail on the head. And it’s exactly why I hate to see all the people shitting on him. It’s pretty clear he’s trying to toe the corporate line and a lot is being said by what questions he walks around and avoids. Are you really surprised that he has to stay within the bounds of the messaging of what corporate and lawyers told him to say? It’s actually funny because the toxicity of the community recently is actually making it so that WotC is looking like the reasonable ones. Community: we want OGL 1.0a. WotC: Here is CC which is better than OGL 1.0a and not controlled by us so this can’t happen in the future. Community: You’re monsters and you should all be fired for listening to community feedback and taking the appropriate steps to correct it. Plus we want more than we originally asked for!

[@thedicehavespoken6234]

42:30 "I have an open lunch every week that people can just drop in and tell me whatever they want" This kind of C level policy is such a classic BS way to feign openness and transparency. None of your employees want to spend their lunch break talking to you about issues, they should be able to access you during work hours. And only once per week? This guy sounds like he thinks he's gifting his team with some extraordinary privilege by being accessible for an hour a week. The fact that the entire C level suite is dominated by people who think like this tells me all I need to know about how much they "care" about their workers and the community.

[@scetchmonkey007]

Wow I think this small channel is now going to explode because Kyle F'ed up, good for you for having him on.

[@trikrein]

The world works in weird ways with algorithms. They did a damn good job interviewing and certainly deserve all the new subs coming their way.

[@scetchmonkey007]

@@trikrein I agree, but they would not of gotten as many clicks as they would have if Kyle did not F up, I am only hear to watch for myself how badly he F'ed up. And I'll like and subscribe and hover around this channel for a bit. I tend to like alot of small channels.

[@namelessjedi2242]

The positive side of Kyle F’ing up! 😁👍

[@scetchmonkey007]

@@namelessjedi2242 I think more to come from that. I'd like to see a meme rendition of cartman singing kyles mom is a B but somehow change it to his boss.

[@yagamifire7861]

@@scetchmonkey007 This has been the amazing repeat blunder of WotC...they have been bringing incredible success to others through their own monumental failures.

[@imperator88vis67]

Here’s to seeing Kyle Brink leave the hobby as quickly as possible. And to Wizards of the Coast who he represents here, here’s a message for you: NOT. ONE. MORE. DIME.

[@Billsbury]

Amen

[@izegrimcreations]

I don't think they are worried about losing the business of someone who has "88" in their username. I hear Justin LaNasa is looking for another Dave Johnson type writer.

[@brettpid6416]

@@izegrimcreations now do my name

[@dwil0311]

What exactly has Kyle Brink done wrong here?

[@nordicmaelstrom4714]

@@dwil0311 The fact you need to be told what he did wrong tells me all I need to know about what kind of human you are.

[@VegasDM]

15:28 Let me get this straight, you are the Executive Producer at Wizards of the Coast for D&D.... and you have zero idea who at Wizards of the Coast makes public statements about D&D!

[@zipzip4562]

Or he didn't want to rake their name through the mud.

[@somnion5094]

​@@zipzip4562 That is the only possible reason. Not knowing makes him either incompetent or a liar and I don't know which is worse. The only answer I would be willing to accept is this: "I understand that going for blood is the first and obvious reaction, but please, keep in mind that this person is an asset that has contributed a lot to the hobby. That specific post was tone deaf, I completely agree on that, just please understand that we have to handle it internally." There you go, where is my check WotC?

[@yagamifire7861]

In most regards, he seems quite bad at his job.

[@kev95]

Yeah, how could he not know?

[@aralornwolf3140]

He was a new hire... less than 3 months into his new job... _bam_ some asshole much higher in the corporate chain told him to put out statements... Do his apology tour. He's just the scapegoat for anything those higher ups have said.

[@BrooklynFirstTeam]

"Guys like me are leaving the workforce." Lmao what?

[@briansmaller7443]

Good - the world of RPGs need less AHs.

[@montyhedstrom1356]

He means I think his generation is ageing to retirement and that younger generations are more inclusive.

[@briansmaller7443]

@@montyhedstrom1356 He meant way more than that. It was cringeworthy. He is a cowardly POS.

[@77wolfblade]

It sounds silly while it's trying to be virtuous.

[@franciscomap75]

@montyhedstrom1356 he made a judgement call to a whole slew of people based on a biological trait. That is the definition of racism. I'm not even going to go into his hypocritical virtue signaling, after all if he thinks like that then he could ask to leave and be the change he wants to happen.

[@tyleremery7088]

"How do you plan on rebuilding trust?" "Through actions." Okay, so... What actions?

[@TheAurgelmir]

Quick tip to WotC: In Word, go to "Design" On the right side of the ribbon there's a button named "Watermark." Microsoft has been kind enouhg to have watermarks that puts a huge "Draft" watermark all over your document. Clearly if something "was a draft" it would have it. And I know WotC knows that too, because their later versions of the documents contained exactly that watermark.

[@Keovar]

But they must not really understand watermarks, as indicated by the lack if non-pirated 5e PDFs. I and many of my players could sure use books in a format more accessible to the visually impaired, but WotC either hates people with disabilities or just ignores our existence. If they watermaeked the PDFs with an account number, then they'd have cause to investigate any they find shared with the public. Or they could just not worry about it and trust those who can afford the PDF to buy it. Most of the game is playable from the SRD, but that's a shoddy excuse for a lack of accessibility.

[@TheAurgelmir]

@@Keovar Fun fact, I have an 1e Monster manual bought on Drivethrough RPG, it has a water mark...

[@Keovar]

Yes, I know, nearly every book _besides_ 5e stuff is available in watermarked PDF format on DMs Guild, although that's an irrelevant fact to everyone else, even if it's fun for you. I was being facetious, but you know, from the attemptrd OGL revocation to Kyle Brink's recent prejudicial comments, I'll be changing games. Level Up A5e from ENWorld looks better anyway.

[@TheAurgelmir]

@@Keovar I moved over to Worlds Without Number myself, it looks pretty decent.

[@krisowrey7260]

Hearing someone target a race and gender out loud for elimination from a hobby is pretty sobering.

[@Krashwire]

Nothing like alienating the fan base that made the thing exist at all and is almost the entire fan base... Racism and sexism is just stupid.

[@definitelyzeblackcat743]

"Finally, how does D&D and WotC plan on rebuilding trust with the community" By telling all the whities to get out... NAILED IT!

[@alexanderwinn9407]

"Guys like me can't leave soon enough" is a really, REALLY bad quote, but I think it's clear what he's saying if you listen to the whole section that that sentence appears in. He's not saying that white men aren't welcome anymore, he's saying that they're not the sole/overwhelming demographic that plays DnD anymore, and therefore that the creators shouldn't overwhelmingly come from that single demographic either. And that is a perfectly reasonable position to take.

[@Hey_Mister]

@@alexanderwinn9407 The mental gymnastics you had to do to justify racism is impressive. Stop being a bootlicker, weirdo.

[@GusOfTheDorks]

Welcome to the problem alot of us have been pointing out for years

[@DnDShorts]

Thanks so much for all you did here! You smashed this interview, I'm so thankful you are fighting for us!

[@daysliveon]

The battle leader hath spoken.

[@3BlackHalflings]

Thanks so much for watching and all the support!

[@anonymustarrasque3550]

I find it really frustrating when people refer to things like the OGL situation as a "war" or "battle". Wars and conflicts are generally about hurting other people, and though I wasn't a part of the "Open D&D" movement, it was supposedly about speaking politely and respectfully in order to protect people. That being said, there was a lot of anger and hostility that people who weren't Open D&Ders received, and comments about things such as war and fighting only increase the sense of division and anger. Please forgive me if I misunderstand what you guys are referring to, since I've only been able to summaries of this video thus far and it's hard to properly communicate via the internet.

[@quintinsteevessenior5568]

@@anonymustarrasque3550it is being used as a metaphor

[@neomontag]

@@anonymustarrasque3550 ​ That’s a nice sentiment, but I think this truly was a “fight” and Dnd Shorts was rightfully on its forefront. Wizards of the Coast tried to aggressively snuff out competitors. They treated us as combatants, and when you’re attacked you either lay down or respond in kind. Truth is that words are how we “fight” or resolve conflict when we set literal war or physical violence aside. This was and will continue to be a war of words, as all culture wars are. The main difference is that the professional “soldiers” are lawyers, and the next tier are people of influence and creators, like Dnd Shorts, Dungeon Dudes, MCDM, Critical Role, Paizo, etc. This was never a civil discussion where WOTC sat down with creators to figure out how to cooperate politely. We caught them red-handed in an underhanded plot, and now they retreat to the civil approach to save their brand. Civility is only on the table when aggression is set aside. But when we begin with aggression, no one should expect civility.

[@zsheets7483]

Kyle, all I have to say is this: Resignation accepted.

[@DM_Bluddworth]

@Liv & Jeremy what did you think of his comment where he intimated “White men can’t get out of the hobby soon enough”? How do you think the shareholders will respond to that statement?

[@3BlackHalflings]

The whole point of our podcast is wanting to make sure D&D and TTRPGs are a safe space for everyone, as long as we're all being kind to one another we don't want anyone to be excluded

[@DM_Bluddworth]

@@3BlackHalflings apparently WotC does not extend that same inclusiveness to white males. Never during the TSR years of D&D 1974 - 1986 did Gary Gygax or any other executive suggest and hope that any group of people NOT participate in the hobby or buy, play and run D&D. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hold you accountable for his statement but that was a moment when a push back or request for clarification was needed in the moment. This statement of his has already gone viral, and the timing of it is once again terrible if they intend to build trust, improve their stock value, or encourage people to see the movie.

[@sylvaincousineau5073]

@@3BlackHalflings so racism create ''safe space'' for every one , is this what you support ?

[@Eamil]

@@sylvaincousineau5073 I think "we don't want ANYONE to be excluded" was a clear enough answer.

[@vladgdc]

I'm gonna have to contradict you here. If you were paying attention and following the conversation and, of course not trying to take a statement out of context, you would realize that the it's about the creators of the game not the hobby's community. Also, it's obviously a hyperbole meant to emphasize that new voices are needed in the creator space and more specifically at WoTC.

[@christopherhobbs4812]

Kyle Brink - "It's important to me that my team of creators look like my players and have the lived experience that my players do." So which is it, do you hire folks on merit or on their appearance....Hasbro/WOTC has some soul searching to do.

[@noblesseoblige319]

Both, but mostly merit. He said as much. He wants the team to be players and fans of the game. He notices that the majority of players and fans are not cis white guys (according to him). Therefore, if he wants to hire players/fans based on their merit and skills, statistically speaking, he'll have a diverse team, given the pool of applicants is itself becoming diverse.

[@DiamorphineDeath]

They’re not? Where are you drawing your demographic data from? Based on population size, it makes no sense for the claim he attempts to make.

[@Lykangroux]

Well shucks, Kyle! You got me! I'll pack it up and take my DM screen to literally anywhere else.

[@griselame]

sure, let's send in a dude who has been in his job for 7 months, why the hell not

[@thudtheace]

All I can say is this to Brink and other who think like him “Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

[@JediNiyte]

BEAUTIFULLY stated!!!

[@dwil0311]

“Brink and others who think like him?” So to be clear, you are talking about the people who are actively pushing back inside the company against the corporates while having to toe the company line to keep D&D in the hands of the community, right? Because that’s what Kyle Brinks role has been throughout this.

[@thudtheace]

@@dwil0311 Making up your own context to try and fathom a Nietzsche quote just makes you look silly.

[@dwil0311]

@@thudtheace What context did I make up? I’m waiting. Or were you not aware of the leaks of WotC employees that confirmed he specifically has been one of those most vocal in pushing back against corporate.

[@dwil0311]

@cyotee doge What specifically has he done that makes you think he is a monster? And when I say “he has done,” I really mean what he has done, not the corporate message that he is disseminating.

[@trikrein]

You are so right about the many wonderful games out there besides D&D5e. Also keep in mind 5e has evolved well past D&D/WotC. For those who don’t want to change systems, or love 5e, it’s quite easy to play 5e without sending WotC a dime. Many (most?) of the non-WotC publishers out there put out higher quality products WotC.

[@mythicmountainsrpg]

This is a great point. There are lots of things about the bones of the 5e system that people love, and there are plenty of great ways to enjoy that.

[@nemobuscaptain3245]

This is the way.

[@meoka2368]

I like that you're not pulling punches, but still trying to be polite.

[@yagamifire7861]

A well done interview.

[@viktorgorchev]

The people who assumed (and still tell me this even) D&D was never diverse but now it finally is are guys like you, Kyle. And I'm not going anywhere.

[@namelessjedi2242]

It’s gaslighting at best, racism at worst. Possibly both.

[@zer0homer]

@@namelessjedi2242 it is racism and they always throw it at us. Hello from East Europe.

[@kurtoogle4576]

Liv & Jeremey were steady, measured, and intense. They truly represented the gravitas of our community concerns! Bravo! Thank you 3BH!

[@GusOfTheDorks]

When this is all over, and it will be one day. Dont you dare forget the names of these people or what they were willing to do to you and your family for a quick buck.

[@somnion5094]

Excellent interview Jeremy and Liv, well done. First of all, I like this dude. He seems as genuine as anyone can be at his position. Still I call bs on a few things: 1. "It takes a lot of time to modify a legal document when you have a lot of stakeholders." The stakeholders have NO involvement on this. The stakeholders vote on the leadership, that is their job. The leadership decides on the procedures. That's why they were appointed in the first place. The leadership is legally bound to do their best to increase the company's value, but without asking. That's like a prime minister holding a referendum for everything. No, we voted you to make that decision without asking. If you fail, you are on the chopping block and you get compensated extremely well in order to take that risk. 2. Not a draft. Drafts come with a huge watermark indicating that it is a draft, or WITHOUT a place for a signature, or WITHOUT a deadline or with a companion letter indicating that it is, in fact, a draft. Most of the times, all 4 of these apply. Lawyers saw that and none thought about it? So, either he is lying or these lawyers are seriously incompetent and should have their license revoked immediately. 3. Totally agree with Liv, it can't be a coincidence that as soon as the subscriptions plummeted, there was an immediate resolution. No, they were not "working on it days prior". They were chilled and relaxed in their Ivory tower, thinking about all the money they would be getting and that was the alarm that warned them that their kitchen was on fire. When that happens, you take immediate and decisive action so that you will not lose the entire house. And look, they didn't need to ask the stakeholders for that, isn't it marvelous? 4. Finally, not knowing who put on that initial response? Really? Someone posted it. Ever thought about using your c-suite power and asking them by whose order they did so? TA-DAH! PS: That kiss ass section on Cynthia is... bad. You went full cringe. Never go full cringe.

[@Eseltritt1]

I need to correct you on your first point. Stakeholders are not only shareholders. Stakeholders can for example be the government and the law, the competition or the customers.

[@somnion5094]

​@@Eseltritt1 We agree. And on the next stakeholder meeting, they can appoint another CEO. That is the extent of their involvement. They do not vote on business practices. They voted when they selected the CEO to lead. So, saying that they were late because the stakeholders should agree on the changes is fiction. Don't get me wrong, the stakeholders can apply pressure in the form of: "You better know what you are doing or else you will be both booted and sued as soon as we get the Q1 results", but that's it. In the end, the CEO decides what happens. And that is exactly what happened when shit hit the fan with the DnDBeyond subscriptions. Someone made a decision.

[@OwlOnTheGo]

Never heard of this channel until now. I have got to say...the way you conducted this interview, the spot-on questions you asked, and how you managed your follow up questions to his responses was amazing. You asked all the questions that everyone wanted to hear answers to. GREAT AMBASSADORS OF OUR COMMUNITY!! I'm subbing now!

[@trikrein]

Thanks for this. I appreciate your directness while remaining civil. Even while Kyle was being blatantly evasive and teetering on offensive. Definitely got my subscription.

[@MarkCMG]

Kyle Brink is interviewed by Liv and Jeremy on the 3 Black Halflings KZbin channel. They approach the interview with a fair amount of skepticism and with a slate of excellent questions. The answers given by Brink are circumspect and make it obvious to me (by some glaring omissions and certain choices of language) that WotC / Hasbro still plans to attempt to de-authorize the OGL v1.0a. I am not speaking to Kyle Brink's intent and anyone who is an employee of a corporation is only allowed certain levels of information and only so much leeway in what they can say publicly, so I am not making this personal. However, it's clear WotC / Hasbro feel if they can de-authorize the OGL v1.0a they can then enact the various other initiatives that were revealed in the leaked OGL 1.1 document (which clearly was NOT a draft). There are other legal mechanisms by which they can deal with bad actors in the community, so that claim is a smokescreen which folks should now easily see through. There are sections of the OGL v1.0a which protect WotC / Hasbro from claims of compatibility with their brand so that is not truly a problem as is claimed. The lynchpin to staunching of ALL of the badwronglaw things they are trying to do going forward is the OGL v1.0a and NO ONE in the community should allow for WotC / Hasbro to attempt to de-authorize it even if they claim they are doing it as a way of protecting the community from itself. Don't fall for it! Stay Vigilant! Defend the OGL v1.0a!

[@telprydain1]

"The answers given by Brink are circumspect and make it obvious to me that WotC / Hasbro still plans to attempt to de-authorize the OGL v1.0a." What are you TALKING about? The SRD is in creative commons - WotC can't mess with it anymore. The OGL was only to control access to the SRD, with the SRD in CC the OGL isn't relevant anymore.

[@MarkCMG]

@@telprydain1 They can still mess with he OGL v1.0a which has 22+ years of OGC from hundreds of participants (the entire Fudge system was released utilizing that license, for instance, and has nothing to do with WotC or their various SRDs). As far as the CC BY SRD release, I was also under the impression the CC BY SRD release was incomplete in some aspects but also included some things they should have excised (Strahd's name and some other IP?). If someone assumes all things pertaining to Strahd are fair game but only the name is in the CC BY release but they then use descriptions from elsewhere and such, then that's a misstep that could be costly, and with no protections that the OGL v1.0a would provide to cure such a breach. The CC BY might not be something WotC can back away from, having released some materials there, but it offers no breach-and-cure protections from litigation for whatever infractions might come up, reasonable or otherwise.

[@Bob-cc7rd]

@tel, the OGL is a gaming license. Not a DnD license. WotC used the OGL 1.0a through offering of SRDs, but there are other products using a license based off the ogl which has nothing to do with WotC.... How would de-authorizing be enforced by WotC? Will WotC retract other company's access to their copyright of the OGL? Sue others for using a near copy of a copyrighted doc? How would a de-auth affect other open source licenses? Could it be used as a way for Microsoft lawyers to retract their open source licenses on a whim? The OGL has competition, but using the CC By 4 license doesn't mean the OGL is no longer relevant. It only assures community creative access to 5e, a soon to be defunct system, will be unaffected by any actions against the ogl 1.0a. If no one ever uses the ogl because their lawyers tell them the CC by 4 is just superior then you'd only be half right.... lmao. But the ogl is relevant.

[@TimothyMReynolds]

“When you have a bigger community, you have a bigger doody.”

[@gilwenlive]

Kyle starts off with complete bullshit, this should be good lol. But glad I found you all through this, will watch more!

[@namelessjedi2242]

Same here!

[@ZubinMadon]

Wow. Great interview. That dude is really being dishonest the point where I feel like his job is being threatened.

[@JacksonOwex]

Yeah, probably! He's the face now, people will be mad at HIM, not WotC! He's their sacrifice to the Gods and WotC is hoping the Gods listen! They should NOT listen and they should remain vigilant of WotC/Hasbro!

[@namelessjedi2242]

Obviously part of his job is to lie and be the face of the lies for the company.

[@dwil0311]

@@namelessjedi2242 Instead of focusing on the lies, I think people need to pay more attention where he avoids questions or walks around answers, I think it tells us a lot.

[@wg4758]

As a legal professional: you clearly mark a draft as such. You do NOT send them around for signature, and you make clear this is a draft by watermarking, including comments, markups etc.

[@AnonAdderlan]

The way Kyle is using the word is deceptive but correct, in that every contract is a 'draft' until it's signed.

[@namelessjedi2242]

No one would be sent a draft expecting it to be signed. WotC is lying.

[@wg4758]

@@AnonAdderlan untrue. If I send a legal document to someone, and his choice is sign it or leave it, it is not a draft as it cannot be changed. Unless you consider, say, Microsofts Terms and Conditions also mere drafts until you signed them.

[@bluebird3281]

Kyle Brink can't get out of the hobby quickly enough.

[@Enriqueguiones]

Amen.

[@notabannedaccount8362]

@@Enriqueguiones Boo hoo! Poor white boy!

[@Mandalorian2814]

He's right, people like him can't leave our game fast enough. It's for everyone.

[@CorrosiveCitrus]

That's probably why he said it

[@Marinealver]

Garbage Wreckshop vibes

[@ryanmadsen4063]

We do need to make space for more diverse voices.

[@Mandalorian2814]

I do not disagree, but one should not Alienate any player for any reason. Hate is hate

[@CorrosiveCitrus]

@@Mandalorian2814 well he's not alienating players, just stating that that old white male execs are due to retire and he can't wait

[@Evaleastaristev]

"Trust no longer actively on fire" is about how far I'm willing to go. I can see the cranes coming in to try to rebuild that bridge, but no logs have been placed as of yet. Thank you very much for doing this interview.

[@bearnaff9387]

You guys should send Kyle a pizza. One dumbly expressed dumb idea has gotten this excellent interview the attention it deserves.

[@xyonblade]

There's so much to unpack here. Kyle is very problematic and D&D should not be in the hands of WoTC or Hasbro, it should be moved into the public domain. I have a lot more spicy things to say but don't want to get anyone in trouble.

[@telprydain1]

Like putting the SRD into Creative Commons?

[@sabotooth]

How is this one guy problematic? He's a problem because he exists? Nothing he said was unreasonable yes, careful but these are hostile interviewers. Look at the twisting of his words already because he tried to cater to their questions. They said why are there so many "cis white men" in d&d? He said they're being overtaken by all the "minorities" and the player base is changing. That turns into "Kyle brink hates white people", seriously?

[@dwil0311]

How is Kyle Brink problematic in this situation?

[@AnnihilateTheHeaven]

Too be fair, with the 5e SRD being on creative commons, it basically is public domain

[@MightyGachiman]

@@dwil0311 white guild for example, extremely embarassing groveling behavior

[@Rictofen9792]

"In my viewpoint, white men can't leave D&D fast enough" should say everything about how insanely inept this man is working for this company.

[@ThoseCrazyNeighbors]

Literally not what he said though, and you're ignoring the context of that statement. The answers he gave was weak, but don’t make shit up to manufacture outrage.

[@eltiket]

It was disgusting. Their true intentions, loud and clear.

[@chrisvs1893]

@@ThoseCrazyNeighbors You’re right, he said the hobby, not just dnd. Which is even worse

[@therealmckoy365]

This was an excellent interview. You asked really great questions that got right down to the business we all wanted to know. 47:00 through 50:05 is troubling though. Diversity, inclusivity, and equality for all must be the standard by which our society operates, but the way Kyle answered this question is disturbing. He wants people of diversity respected not because "you are the diversity hire, you want to be respected because you're awesome at your job." Bravo! Well said! Except for the part that basically says it's fine as long as you are not a white male. Because if that's the case you can just f*ck right off out of the hobby and workforce as fast as you can. Overall, just what a racist and sexist thing to say. I think Kyle rolled another Nat 1 on his morality check.

[@concernedearthling3353]

I agree, wtf is this Jeremy guy talking about. Kyle can bite me as well. WoTC is so out of touch that they might as well be sniffing glue. My city is 50% white and 50% minorities. The store has 100 people gaming on Saturday and Sunday and it is pretty much 80% white guys (did not include white girls). This hobby happily welcomes all colors, creeds, orientations, etc....BUT your base is white guys. I think I am done with WoTC, they obviously want me out. Hello PF2E and DCC, here I come. And for the record, the product has gone to shit in terms of DnD quality. We have all been noticing it.

[@brycenerdstrom567]

Nah. He’s right. -a white dude

[@brycenerdstrom567]

Oh, also! That ain’t what he said. Maybe keep your moral outrage to what people actually say.

[@Eamil]

@@brycenerdstrom567 "Guys like me can't leave soon enough for this hobby" is pretty straightforward.

[@Unregistered.HyperCam.2]

@@Eamil He was very obvious with what he meant, though he wasn't exactly wrong with his _words,_ just his _intent._ He _meant_ "white men" can't leave the hobby soon enough. If you take his words as "people who don't recognize how racist, discriminatory, and xenophobic they actually are by categorizing people by superficial identity labels, denying those who they share labels with, and attempting to be 'uplifting' and 'inclusive' to those that are different, when in reality they are infantalizing and glorifying those that are different with zero basis," then he's correct. tl;dr: Kyle can GTFOH with that bull, and not because he's a white dude.

[@namelessjedi2242]

The change begins with you, Kyle.

[@DoanBrianRoessler]

Great get halflings. Really glad to see this. I've listened to the first twenty minutes or so and unfortunately that's all I can take. Kyle's answers to your excellent questions feel dodgy and misleading. He's constantly confusing the issues and making excuses that don't line up with the actual time line. Really disappointing.

[@calvanoni5443]

Exactly.

[@markmorrill6431]

15:48 - Something goes on the website, there’s a binary paper trail. There was probably even a PR (pull request) that had to get reviewed. If there wasn’t, that speaks to larger technical issues that utterly boggles the mind of an organization as large as WotC and dndbeyond.

[@seancornish8990]

I believe a lot of what he was saying, mainly because I have worked at a place that like LOTS of time into a project we all took a step back and canned the whole project (this was the videogaming space not ttrpg) . So imagining a large team and company could be blind to a problem like this and it took too long to get everyone involved in the conversation is very understandable to me. In term of something like that being a draft I could see that being true (even the part about sending out a draft) but typically I would imagine you should put a huge watermark over it saying DRAFT. I really feel for Kyle and really want to believe we can get back to a place we can feel more trust again. I hope they act in a manor where that is possible. I also get that all his words mean nothing unless we see that action and intent carried forward. Anyway that is my two cents, and thanks for making a interview that asked some tough question.

[@mrthor8273]

Looking forward to other content aside from D&D.

[@daysliveon]

Kyle Brink basically: What? We had nooooo idea that we were trying to steal all 3rd party content. We didn't think about it at all. Why would anyone think that? What year is it? Where am I?

[@TheEndKing]

I'm sad looking at the likes and dislikes. I think people thought they were downvoting Kyle directly, instead of your channel.

[@3BlackHalflings]

Yeah, bit of a misunderstanding there haha - Liv

[@barelylegalbriefs]

Nothing he says is straightforward. He is trying not to lie while also not telling the truth.

[@JProdigal]

The language Kyle used on the "draft" OGL was a clever dodge. By saying it was just a draft, but written formally because "all draft contracts could be the final one", he leaves open but doesn't address that this could easily have been the final one.

[@namelessjedi2242]

It was sent to companies to be signed. No one would sign a draft.

[@dylanhyatt5705]

Really good interview and analysis at the end - thanks.

[@loredelamore]

When i get my game Final Night published, I hope all gamers will give my game a chance, as I will not be telling any fellow gamer to not play my game. I want gamers to play my game.

[@radio-silence9506]

The question about "Why did the draft have places to sign and dates" I think shows a lack of understanding of legal documents, drafts, and how they work. It's perfectly reasonable for a draft of a document to have places to sign and dates. That's like asking why the rough draft of your essay has a well written out thesis and conclusion when those are things you know you will polish up for your final draft. The fact that these drafts were sent out as drafts, and the recipients knew they were drafts, is enough to be like "okay so things in there were still subject to change despite it having blank lines for initials and signatures and dates". At that point the dates themselves are subject to change because it's a draft. Other than that, great questions and interview. They were definitely hard hitting :)

[@WaynePeacock]

Still not giving them any $.

[@hakujouryu]

First of all, Thank you for taking him to task. This is the first video I've seen from your channel, and I have watched the other interviews for this guy. You two are the only people that actually PUSHED him and asked HARD questions. I subscribed.

[@MichaelStJohn-lr7el]

I'd like to see Kyle Brink do an interview with Linda Codega. I really want to accept that things happened the way he is saying they did, but it feels like a reframing of events to save face. There's so much here that just doesn't seem plausible, and I'm only 15 minutes into the interview as of writing this comment.

[@MarkHyde]

THIS - a recorded live interview indeed. Now it seems Brink is open to 'talking' to the community.

[@NemoOhd20]

Thank you for this. This YT channel needs much greater viewership! Fantastic interview here, which takes real courage, and I love your adventure videos too. Subcribed. Do you have plans for writing your own modules or setting soon? Hasbruhhh still going with the "WE WUZ SAVING YOU FROM NFT SCAMS" line though. LOL.

[@jasonhughes1035]

Thank you for asking our questions

[@maxwellpatten9227]

yeah... I'll see myself out....

[@omnusi5336]

Glad you guys asked the questions we all had, and it was fun for this weasel to twist and put out his excuses. He falls on his sword prettily enough, but it's pretty slickly done and hehearsed. Good job on forcing the issue.

[@Shad0wchasers1]

Y'all had some great questions and pushed as far as I could expect. The one question I hope future interviews tackle would be why WotC hasn't responded at all to the damage the revocation of 1.0a would have done to games that have *nothing* to do with D&D. Everything has been centered around D&D's IP and the publishers that are adding content to the 5E community, but I haven't heard WotC respond to the threat to games that use the OGL for things that have *nothing* to do with their IP.

[@vladgdc]

I'm sorry to say you're wrong on one thing: if a game uses the OGL 1.0a from WoTC it is connected to their IP

[@scottwarren3948]

Absolutely incorrect. Lots of folks used the ogl to essentially open source their own games.

[@vladgdc]

@@scottwarren3948 Considering the OGL is an agreement between the user and WoTC I'd say I'm right. Whatever you consider opening their game it will be connected to WoTC by the OGL.

[@scottwarren3948]

@@vladgdc you are incorrect. Attaching the ogl allows works not attached to their ip to be shared. Like say into the odd and the community that sprung up around it. The ogl was a tool for other creators to open their ip for modification. Why do think ORC is such a big deal? It’s a system agnostic license not attached to any ip at any point.

[@scottwarren3948]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License this wiki entry spells it out pretty simply, it’s a tool for sharing game content. Wizards just attached what they were willing to share of theirs up front. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@JCM223]

Lives side-eye during this interview is S-tier

[@jonathankorus9649]

The question about the OGL at the beginning was good, everything else about this video is a huge shining example of why WOTC is going to fail. Diversity, equity, and inclusion requirements are the death blow to a company. When the mission of a company becomes adhering to ever-changing woke precepts the original purpose of the company, the product, becomes an afterthought. Give me a logical argument on why the skin color of the executives at a company will make the things that that company creates better? Everyday I see the world I live in stray farther and farther from the ideals of MLK, has everyone forgotten that the content of your character is what matters? Apparently so, they don't give a shit if someone is best person for a job, they only care that they check some intersectional box.

[@CaraesNaur]

He's been tasked with impossible damage control. His effort is somewhat valiant, but he's not ultimately helping WotC's situation. No way they had walked away from the 1.1 "draft" because they sent it out with contracts to be signed. No way 1.2 was already in the works before the leak occurred. 1.2 didn't much read like a legal document, so the time/stakeholders argument is weak. That thing could have easily been conjured in the executive suite with legal sign-off at the last minute. They know what the community wants, and have no intention of providing it. Dumping the SRD5.1 into CC was a tactical retreat, not a loss.

[@dariobc8398]

I work in the central functions of a pretty large company and it is fairly easy to tell that a lot of people don't know how companies work. Its very easy to not know what's going on in another department - particularly if you have little overlap in your day-to-day. Also anything disciplinary related is generally confidential and you would not be able to talk about it in an interview like this. People tend to think that large corporations are well-oiled machines but they are generally enormous, messy, and unwieldy.

[@tompadfoot3065]

Dude entirely dodged the "are there POC in significant positions" question

[@CorrosiveCitrus]

Even better is all the people quoting parts of his answer out of context or even straight up misquoting it

[@TeganJGaming]

Nice! I'm glad you all got the chance to dive into this!

[@phloog]

“Hi I’m Kyle here to read the things that WotC has been saying since the lie about it being a “draft” document”

[@ollywright]

Really great questions. Thank you.

[@sennievee6833]

What a great interview! The draft question especially was interesting-I am still really confused about how “any draft could be the final.” Did they really expect creators to just keep signing legally binding “drafts” without knowing if it would be the final one or not??