Women and Head Coverings

Sermon delivered by Fr Mousa on the feast of the Nativity of the Theotokos, Sunday, September 8, 2024
#Orthodox #Orthodoxy #Headcoverings #Women #Feminism #Theotokos

[@SacredHeart3]

🙏🏻May God be praised honored & adored. I felt called to veil years ago & love it. It feels like I am fully who I was always made to be 🙏🏻

[@prosperikiensikimama2957]

I had this conviction from when i was a protestant, as an Orthodox Christian now, I wear a veil all the time, it helps me pray more and be humble. Lord Have Mercy on Us and grant us Your grace 🙏 Thank you Father for your timely teaching 🙏

[@Maria.7861]

Me too!!!

[@gingervincent1969]

Thank you for this message. I am a newer convert and want to do what is right. Thank you for this encouragement.

[@nessadavey9790]

Thankyou Father for this sermon, I have felt called to start wearing a viel during prayer, you have helped me understand how this is such beautiful show of respect to God.

[@julisat4169]

Such a beautiful sermon 🥰🙏🏻⛪️

[@Toomanybooks75]

Thank for this teaching, Fr. I have found that wearing a headcovering in church is very healing.

[@ruthimegi5556]

I hope this message penetrates the heart of every parishioner in our Holy church.

[@jjohnson98634]

Thank you for sharing this! It was very insightful and encouraging! I am a Protestant woman in who recently started wearing a head covering. I’ve spent many hours studying this topic and have come to a deep conviction about it. It takes a lot of courage to wear my head covering to church and chapel (I go to Bible college) and I wish it didn’t have to. I hope we can normalize head coverings in America again. Again, thank you for sharing this message!

[@Lulu-rw4rm]

This is the best explanation for why women should cover their heads. It has helped me to make the decision to follow this instruction.

[@shanedundas]

It’s the head covering of women that actually demonstrates how holy the place (church) we are in - and sadly not the veil of the altar because it becomes monotonous and routine - but when women’s heads are covered - it helps shake us into realization that we are inside the holy temple. What a huge impact that women have. I love the part when father talked about how angels approach women. Very nice. 👍🏼☦️

[@mrsmarple2655]

In our Russian Orthodox church we, women, wear our headcoverings. My teenage granddaughters also cover their head. They started doing it at a very early age ❤❤❤

[@Evridikibio1]

14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

[@mrsmarple2655]

@@Evridikibio1 REASON 4: THE PRACTICE IS CONTEXT SPECIFIC The practice of headcoverings is specific to times of prayer and prophecy. We can define “prayer and prophecy” somewhere else, and I happen to believe the words refer to gathered worship. But for the purpose of this blog, it is sufficient to say that prayer and prophecy are the contexts in which women are to wear headcoverings and men are not to wear headcoverings (v. 4, 5). That indicates that the headcoverings of which Paul speaks can be placed on the head and removed from the head depending on the context. In other words, the expectation is not that women wear headcoverings at all time, but only during times of prayer and prophecy. Women are free to remove the headcoverings after prayer and prophecy conclude. This only makes sense if the headcovering is removable. If the headcovering were hair, it would not be removable, at least not so easily removable. It is impossible for a woman to remove her hair after worship, only to replace it before the next worship service which at least would have been 6 days later. Had Paul intended hair for the headcovering, he could have simply told women to wear it or grow it without mentioning the context. “Ladies, grow your hair out,” he could have said. In this case, he does mention the context. The context is prayer and prophecy. That assumes that the headcovering can quickly be placed on the head and removed from the head, depending on the specific context. There is something unique about prayer and prophecy that requires the headcovering for a woman, and because of that Paul was able to tell them to specifically wear it during prayer and prophecy. The practice is not general to all of life, but specific for this specific occasion. CONCLUSION For the above reasons I reject the interpretation that posits hair as the legitimate headcovering for women during gathered worship. That interpretation renders the entire passage senseless, it doesn’t follow the flow of the argument, it fails to see the distinct word used for covering in verse 15, and the entire text is specific to one context (prayer and prophesy). Hair is not the headcovering of which Paul speaks in 1 Corinthians 11. He is referring to a material garment, like a shawl or a hat, to cover the head. Greek New Testament scholar, Thomas Schreiner, agrees: Paul is not saying that a woman has been given long hair instead of a covering. Rather, he is saying that woman has been given long hair as a covering. His point seems to be that a woman’s long hair is an indication that she needs to wear a covering.3 Dr. Schreiner quickly dismisses headcoverings as a cultural phenomenon near the end of his essay without any exegetical warrant, but when he actually does exegete the passage he is spot on. A woman’s long hair frames her head with feminine glory. It is a uniquely feminine adornment that naturally adds to a woman’s beauty. The headcovering is a further adornment that declares her femininity specifically during times of public worship. In the context of 1 Corinthians 11, a woman’s hair cannot be her headcovering.

[@kiviana5623]

Good morning, Thank you for your time in posting this truly inspiring and meaningful sermon for us women. I will forever hold on to this and be mindful when stepping into the house of our Lord. Thank you and god bless you Father.

[@varvarajohnson1589]

Is sad that we abandoned the tradition St Sophrony is right we don't have the courage Thank you Father

[@Evridikibio1]

14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

[@georgiosgerontas760]

@@Evridikibio1 ... troll👿 👾😺 👹 , detected ...

[@Evridikibio1]

@@georgiosgerontas760 that is a very good argument. You don't know what to say, so calling people names is what you default to. You must have been fun in school, or are still in it.

[@alikipapamichael7138]

Thank you for your blessings & powerful message today pater mas. You definately shared pearls of wisdom for the salvation of our ignorant souls. By the gracevof God & our Theotokos 🌹go we.🙏🏻 Lord have mercy 🙏🏻🛐😢 Immigrant from South Africa.🌿

[@mrsnkg7904]

Beautiful. Thank you Father for explaining about the angels. I've always covered in church even before becoming Orthodox 20+ yr ago. In 2020 it seemed obvious that we were entering a time of intense spiritual warfare. I definitely want to be on the side of God's angels so now headcover fulltime & started to take my spiritual life & modest clothing more seriously. (Chrysostom says the outward appearance proclaims the inner man). Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner.💖🙏🇦🇺

[@BodilessVoice]

St. John Chrysostom argues that a woman ought to “be carefully wrapped up on every side” at all times, basing his argument directly on the text of St. Paul’s Epistle. He is saying: Christian women ought to cover their hair, not merely in church, but everywhere they go. This was the custom of Christian women everywhere, until the 20th century and the rise of feminism.

[@beautifulwhitecat]

Fr Mousa, thank you for that inspiring sermon about head coverings! This is an encouragement to all women and you explained well why we need to always be wearing a head covering. God bless you & your family!

[@Evridikibio1]

14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

[@mement0_m0ri]

I attend a Greek Church where I am quite often the only woman with her head covered. Part of me thinks that being the only one with my head covered means I ammore of a distraction and therefore I might be seen as being boastful of my piety. But, I have covered my hair in church from the beginning and so when I am uncovered I feel naked and improper. I continue to veil in church, but the fact that I am quite often the only one is very difficult for me. I find myself wondering about the judgement of those around me, and worrying that the other women are bothered by me. It makes me sad when new women start to attend the parish with their heads covered, but after seeing that almost no one else does it, they quickly start showing up without their veils. It's very hard to continue to be different. The Greeks seem to feel very strongly about rejecting this practice, and I fear I am making myself look prideful and rebellious by continuing, and wondering if I should be doing it.

[@_m4r1ss4_9]

Definitely keep veiling as long as youre comfortable with it, it seems that you are called to it. You're in church, the other women shouldn't be focusing on you they should be focusing on their worship, and they shouldn't let a head covering get in the way of that. It's a beautiful tradition that Christian women have been practicing for thousands of years, lost to the s3xual liberation movement.

[@rachelarmstrong807]

Sorry to hear that. I hope you have the courage to keep doing what you are doing. I go to a church in which most women do wear head coverings but it is something that must be taught to newcomers and the next generation. Hearing explanations like this homily help.

[@AWAKEnotWOKE84]

I completely understand your fear of being judged and distraction! I converted to Catholism 2 years ago, and started wearing a veil this past January. Very few women veil themselves at our parish, although more do at our parish than others I've been to. I was afraid to start veiling, because I felt like a fraud. I thought that only extremely pius women wore veils. But then I learned that we veil ourselves for love and respect of the true presence of Jesus in the consecrated host.😊

[@GetSicRiCH]

ive been covering my head innately for many years, way before i became a catechumen or inquirer in Orthodoxy. i am usually always the only woman covering my head, wherever i go. i do this because of a personal higher reasoning with The Most High. i cannot worry about what others think, i must continue in faith.

[@BodilessVoice]

"If anyone is inclined to dispute this, we have no other practice, nor do the churches of God."

[@MalikaIC]

Thank you for this enlightening teaching..May God bless you all in all...

[@Mavvyd96]

As someone who goes to a Greek Church in Texas, about 75% of women are not veiled/covered. I appreciate the Russians for insisting veils so heavily in their parishes (or at least the two I went to).

[@snowps1]

Do you know why? Because Greece suffered centuries under Muslim oppression. Greek women stopped wearing the veil to differentiate themselves from their Muslim oppressors. The tradition of not wearing a veil has stuck around for Greeks.

[@annyer262]

@@snowps1 also for the Greeks the Liturgy had to be done clandestine while under the oppression of the Ottomans. As a result their liturgies then to be shorter than a Russian liturgy! This holds today comparing the liturgy at an OCA (Russian heritage jurisdiction) versus GOA.

[@mrsmarple2655]

​@@snowps1I think, now Greek women are no longer oppressed by Ottomans.. However, now in Greece they also do not wear headcoverings...

[@snowps1]

@@mrsmarple2655 correct, but did you see the part where I said that the tradition of not wearing it has stuck around for the Greeks...

[@fruitfulvine222]

I attend a ROCOR parish and less than half of the women veil. I do, and my daughter does. It seems that the younger women are happy to veil, but the older women stopped in the 60's and never did it again.

[@growingthishome]

Wow just wow. Thank you for sharing this. I’ve been wearing headcoverings since I entered the church 9 years ago…but even before then as an evangelical in prayer. I’ve always felt called to them and felt like by putting it on, I enter a new state of mind. Like it protects me from wayward thoughts and brings me to prayer to focus. Again, wow! Thank you 🙏🏻☦️

[@nastjavk]

Fantastic sermon father! +

[@wedihager5194]

ኣሜን Amen ! thank you father for such a timely and critically important holy traditions.

[@thegoodpath5008]

Joy! I so enjoyed your homily! I began wearing a head covering to church earlier this year...for a variety of reasons, some of which you spoke about. However, this is the first occasion I've heard that verse explained regarding to wear them for the sake of the angels ❤ thank you very much! Glory to God 🙌🏻

[@alexandres4297]

Father Mousa, you are truly blessed. You proclaim the truth with both a deep love for humanity and a profound reverence for God. I humbly encourage you to consider recording your sermons, particularly addressing the challenges and prevalent temptations facing today's youth, as well as expounding on the Church’s doctrinal positions. You possess a remarkable gift that could greatly benefit many. Evlogison

[@netineti9942]

Thank you for this enlightening speech! I needed it right now and feel like sharing my experience. As a believer, a follower of Christ and a woman, I have intuitively felt it to be very right to cover my head in the Church. For some years even during private prayer at home and for long periods any time when leaving home. First in the Roman Catholic Church, then as a member of the Orthodox Church. Wearing a head scarf truly feels like a matter between me and God. It has a sense of healing my broken soul, repairing the damages of a life lived badly in regargards to men. In Church it also helps me to turn inwards, to pray deeper and to minimize distractions. Somehow it is also a statement of 'I am not following the norms and expections of this mad and distorted fallen world to how a woman should look (like a barbie-doll). I have other values, like following the will of God'. And I have even felt a connection to devoted Muslim sisters, who with hijab guard themselves from lustful looks of men with such beauty and modest grace. Last year, after moving to another country I found myself to be part of a very small minority of women (most of whom are originally Russian) with head scarfs in the Church. Sometimes I was the only one with head covered. I felt I was sticking out and even got some strange comments and looks. I learned by experience, that one can easily fall into using time in front of the mirror choosing and fixing a scarf before leaving to Church - self-centered vanity is surely lurking here, too! This spring I started questioning my 'fixation' about not showing my hair in the parish, so at first I took the scarf off for the coffee after Sunday Liturgy, and in the summer during heat I tried being without the scarf in other services than Divine Liturgy. First, there was a sense of nakedness - but quickly I got used to it. During the last month, I have only covered my head during the Divine Liturgy and when visiting monasteries. But I do feel, that by trying to assimilate and not to stick out too much by dropping the scarf, I am loosing something of the sense of Sacredness of the Church space, and the Other-worldliness of the Divine Service. Worship becomes more mundane, ordinary. This is not helping me in giving myself fully to Christ. I go to church FOR HIM, not for the parishioners and their opinions. Everything in the Church is made beautiful to remind us of God's Kingdom, the Icons, the Insence, the Vestments of the Priest... Right? Why would I not express the same beauty and the respect to God by covering my head? So, father Mousa, your speech has made me convert back to my heart's original wisdom - wearing the scarf. I have the courage to do it, especially after this 'experiment'. I especially loved what you said about the importance of covering that which is most precious and mysterious, like the Altar. 'Cause when I am in the Church, I am in the most Precious and most Mysterious meeting with the Loved One of my soul - that is NOT for the eyes of others! So, Dear Sisters in Faith, let's have courage and let our head scarfs show what we stand for and WHOM we are in the Church for!

[@gotogd1233]

Your testimony was very endearing. Thank you for sharing your innermost heartfelt experiences and thoughts. I most certainly can relate to all you shared personally. As a traditional Roman Catholic I have been veiling for a little over 10 years and have journeyed through my inner 'desert' as well. And while I heartily believe in the practice of it and the need for it to be taught so young girls know how to address The Lord when HE comes to knock on your Heart so you can kindly allow HIM in and treat HIM with all due reverence, I do understand, from experience, that it too can become a habit [pun intended]. And while it is not a 'bad' habit, it is something that needs to be worn with sense of purpose and not with little thought about self awareness. Because just as you mentioned, you will judged for it. Not just by peers but those in high places and you can invite unwanted negative attention for the simple fact that you are wearing a 'religious' garment. With that said, I totally disagree with you on what a hijab is, its purpose, its statement, its demanding recognition, and moreover the fact that there is absolutely nothing godly about it. Muslima's are taught at a very young age to put a show on, lie, to view themselves as superior, to disregard the integrity of others, to engage in sexual misconduct, and to flaunt it when need be then turn around and hide it for sake of not shaming their outer appearances. Moreover, there is no age limit on 'marriage' in accustom to shareeeya laws. All too often you see these types with their heads wrapped up tighter than cellophane while their arses and busts are put out on display to prove my point. Not to mention the extremely articulated artistry of face paint. And I refuse to use my testimony and my religious habits to be associated with immorality and unethical crimes against humanity and the degradation of what a female's worth genuinely is.

[@a.e.2990]

maybe a solution would be, just to focus on liturgy and not so much on others whether they wear headscarf or not. isn’t it for god to judge? also i never was aware that in christian orthodoxy it was important to cover any inch of hair. never heard or listened such obligation.

[@Charlie-ne1tx]

This was so good! This helped answer all my doubts and questions. Best explanation of veil wearing. Thank you so much! And the ending of this video was so uplifting and encouraging.

[@EsmeeLaFleur]

Outstanding talk, Father Mousa. Thank you!

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

Thank you Father for this powerful message! ☦️

[@lornadoone8887]

Thank you, Father. I always felt convicted because of the Scriptures you cite and longstanding Christian tradition, that I should wear a head covering in Church and for prayer out of respect for the Lord, but for many years I deferred instead to the predominating practice in the parishes I was in, where usually only women from the “old country” wore them. I did not want to draw undue attention to myself as an American and convert, especially from my Rector who quite honestly seemed to be a bit annoyed by the practice outside a traditional ethnic or monastery setting. To be fair, I got the impression from the little he said and how he said it, he discouraged this (as well as public use of prayer ropes by the laity) because he did not want to encourage a kind of fundamentalist or legalistic spirit in the congregation, especially among converts from conservative Protestant backgrounds taking up the trappings of Orthodoxy without perhaps understanding the meaning and spirit of these externals. A couple of years ago, I changed parishes and began to use head coverings. It was helpful that the Priest’s wife also did so, though she also was a convert. This is by far the clearest and most beautiful explanation I have heard of the meaning of the practice. The part about the holy angels fearing women moved me deeply, and it all makes so much sense in view of the Mystery of the Lord’s Incarnation from the Theotokos. A heartfelt thank you, again!

[@blakely6835]

Wow. Beautiful! ❤

[@πατριχορ]

Head coverings should be more common in the Church.

[@cozycastle]

Yessssss

[@CloudNumber23]

All women cover their head when they are in a church here in Russia.

[@Evridikibio1]

14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

[@johnhawks1642]

​@@Evridikibio1 Wearing a head covering elevates this even further. Women have long hair as a natural veil in life, they put a veil on top of a veil to enter into the holy of holy's, the place where God dwells, the Church.

[@Evridikibio1]

@@johnhawks1642 if a woman wants to wear a veil at church, or even constantly, there is nobody stopping her. But, there isn't such a rule that a woman has to wear a veil. That's the point im trying to make. You want to wear a veil? Go ahead! You don't? God's got you covered!

[@Abigailwark]

🙌🏼🙏🏼🙌🏼

[@imanqumsieh3711]

Thank you father and God bless you 🛐🙏🏻❤️

[@vanfja]

In all icons, female saints have head coverings. Do we not want to emulate the icons? This trend to not wear head coverings is a new fad even in Orthodox countries started in the 60’s,70’s. Head coverings are in the Old Testament and in the new. Frankly if men could still “cover their heads when praying” as in the Old Testament, it would be viewed as an honor.

[@lornadoone8887]

St. Mary of Egypt is an exception, but she was a solitary hermit, and I don’t see anyone suggesting women should emulate her “attire” (actually lack thereof) on her entire body!

[@junicornplays980]

Why do we not encourage men to dress like Jesus then?

[@vanfja]

@@junicornplays980 Actually we do. Women are encouraged to cover their heads, men are encouraged to grow beards and look like natural men as Jesus Christ not like young “grooms” and effeminate males. As the saints say.

[@jenkinsmatthew]

@@lornadoone8887St Mary of Eqypt’s lack of clothing was not a form of pride, but a form of humility, following decades of prayer, asceticism, and repentance.

[@vickyk1861]

Because it's all about control on women's body and behaviour​@@junicornplays980

[@thesampo]

Also, no hats in church for men.

[@tomjull1106]

Except for the clergy. 😉

[@vickyk1861]

@@tomjull1106 this is not biblical😋

[@danielagiovanazzi2055]

A wonderful sermon Father. I'm Catholic and attend the Traditional Latin Mass. I would feel naked if I wasn't veiled in the presence of the King in the Tabernacle. I also occasionally visit the Greek Orthodox cathedral with a couple of my friends. The priest there instantly recognises us because he says "Aah, the Latin ladies. You cover your heads but the Greeks don't bother." It is very sad that covering our heads is seen as an oppression and sadly compared to muslims.

[@Evridikibio1]

14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

[@eeaotly]

Compared to muslim? Only someone who has no basic knowledge of history compares themselves with someone who has copied them in the first place.

[@normadaly7506]

Thank you father

[@Nancydc-r2g]

11:26; Your message is always presented so clearly. I thank God you are my priest and compass. Bless you.

[@forevermore6065]

I need more explanation about the angels. So women should wear at ALL times then as angels are not just with us during liturgy.

[@NFS0038]

Yeah what about a woman's guardian angel? Seems like a tactical disadvantage if her angel has to constantly avert its gaze from her while defending her from demons.

[@forevermore6065]

@@NFS0038 Good point!

[@Marilynlovesebiking]

Very interesting and illuminating sermon.

[@OrthodoxyChronicles]

Great job father ! You're a light among the deepest darkness! A great message.

[@deathfalcon602]

Is there anything more beautiful, more elegant, more wonderful than the theotokos. Is this okay to say?

[@hmkzosimaskrampis3185]

Is there anything [among creation] that is more beautiful...

[@deathfalcon602]

​@@hmkzosimaskrampis3185 but is it correct to say that Theotokos is more beautiful than the Son of man, the word?

[@hmkzosimaskrampis3185]

@@deathfalcon602 He is both created and uncreated. Anyway, we take poetic license sometimes

[@πατριχορ]

@@deathfalcon602 Yes.

[@deathfalcon602]

​@@hmkzosimaskrampis3185 Love it. I don't want to be some stickler but it just stood out to me.

[@sharonwalters6135]

Finally…great sound teaching

[@greenncreme]

I grew up Mennonite but as I got older I felt that some of the traditions and teachings were not genuine in how they were actually trying to live. They looked polished on the outside but there was so much judgement, resentment and mistreatment on the inside of the churches. I love my harritage but did not envision raising a family in the same way so I stepped away. One thing that has been on my mind though is the head covering because I did feel a real conviction to Cover it while worshipping. I now go to a non-denominational churh and it has been very good for me to learn the basics of Christianity with out the shadow of a particular religion. I have read through the scripture anout the head covering and I agree with it and I appreciate this message about it very much, the whole Angel thing used to confuse me. I agree we should follow that scripture, but also in the same scripture it says for a man not to cover his head. How does that work for men that cover there head in the church with hats? Does the same rule apply?

[@georgiascott5779]

Brilliant

[@jonathannunn2266]

Thank you

[@mariarodriguez-yo3lh]

Thank you so much.

[@AWAKEnotWOKE84]

I converted to Catholism 2 years ago, and started wearing a veil this past January. My husband gave me 2 beautiful veils for Christmas. I had been thinking of veiling already, but was hesitant, because I thought that only extremely pius women wore veils and I would be a fraud. I then learned that it's out of respect and love for Jesus that we veil ourselves!❤🕆📿

[@jenkinsmatthew]

I encourage you to visit a canonical Eastern Orthodox Church, speak to the clergy, and study the Orthodox Saints and Holy Fathers.

[@christinashaw1859]

@@jenkinsmatthewI’m a Catholic, too, who wears a veil to Mass. I hope that Orthodox and Catholic Christians can come closer to unity! I visited a local Orthodox community, but it seemed like they looked down on my Catholic faith and had some misconceptions about it. I’m a little scared to go back I guess. 😅 I’m not saying that to condemn anyone, though! I’ve met many Catholics who look down on non-Catholics, and I don’t like that either! But it was just something I picked up on. Maybe that was just in that community, though! I’d love to have some good and fruitful dialogue with my Orthodox brothers and sisters…I love my Catholic faith, but many modern day Catholics have not been evangelized, sad to say. 🙁 It seems like there is a lot of irreverence in churches these days, and I think we could learn a lot about reverence from the Orthodox!

[@jenkinsmatthew]

@@christinashaw1859 Do not be scared to go back to the (Eastern) Orthodox Church. Everyone interested in the Orthodox Faith is always welcome. There will never be unity between the Church that Jesus Christ established, and those who continue to blasphemy and teach heresy. There will only be unity if Roman Catholicism renounces its heresies and returns to the one true Church that they departed from over a thousand years ago. Roman Catholicism is not the church that Christ established, the pope of Rome fell to pride, and is teaching false teachings that are not in line with what the Saints and Holy Fathers have taught.

[@SolidSnake0]

​@@christinashaw1859 that's just not possible. They're two completely different religions. For any form of "unity" to exist at this point, one of the two would have to completely abandon their entire beliefs. Or the two would have to negotiate their beliefs, and to say that's proper would be to say that both churches have been teaching falsely for centuries, which is an entirely different heresy.

[@NFS0038]

This priest is an incredibly powerful and well read speaker. God bless Father Mousa.

[@AbrahamFramirez-hr5zu]

I agree 100% We can not follow the rules of the PAGANS but the rules of Christianity ☦️

[@gigig2492]

I was a member of a wonderful ROCOR Church in VA (all the women in dresses and veils with a rare exception) but recently moved to SC where I attend an OCA Church (the only jurisdiction available). I was surprised to find that only about 1/3 of the women wear head coverings and at least 1/2 of the women wear pants-some even in jeans. I guess OCA is the modernest wing of the Church.

[@annyer262]

OCA depends on the parish. I went to one near a state college. There were very liberal there. No head covering there. Now I worship at an OCA in North Carolina. 75 percent of the women cover their heads.

[@BodilessVoice]

Father Seraphim Rose forbade clergy to concelebrate with the OCA - ever - and he also forbade his spiritual children to attend an OCA parish, for any reason. His faithful and devout spiritual children keep this rule, until our time. For a reason. . .

[@NFS0038]

@@annyer262 OCA seems to let the priests have comparatively more authority. There are two OCA parishes in my area - one on a campus and is quite modern for Orthodoxy, and another that has an eastern european priest and you would be forgiven if you thought is was ROCOR.

[@annyer262]

@@NFS0038 I have experienced that at an OCA also. He would switch to slavonic during the service when he was having trouble remembering the English. During the Sermon I would here bits of Russian sometimes.

[@amycraig3956]

March 15, 2020 I put on a veil for Mass for the first time. It was the only way I could think to respond to the worldwide insanity that was just beginning. I have worn it every Mass since as well as all holy hours. I am Roman Catholic. The number of women in our diocese that have begun to wear one since is astounding! The Holy Spirit teaches...praise Our Lord!

[@kristinedamian7126]

It's Divine Liturgy not Mass. Mass is in catholic churches

[@amycraig3956]

@@kristinedamian7126 I am Catholic, like I said above, "I am Roman Catholic." Sorry if it bothers you that a Roman is roamin' in your sphere, I have a fairly opened mind when it comes to listening to good homilies and sermons.

[@AWAKEnotWOKE84]

@@amycraig3956 Amen, sister in Christ!!! Also a Roman Catholic here. Converted 2 years ago, and started wearing a veil this past January.🕆📿😊

[@amycraig3956]

@@AWAKEnotWOKE84 I just think it is a wonder the amount of women wearing the veil. Also, in our diocese there has been some parish migration since the "re-opening" after closures in 2020, really strange. I ended up switching to a parish with a pastor that wasn't afraid and that didn't enforce the masks, ever. That particular parish was the only one that had more parishioners after the COOF than before; they offer two Masses in Latin and two ad orientum novus order each weekend. At this point most women wear the veil at all masses, even when we attend other locations on vacation I have seen a growing number of veiled women.

[@aubreygmcghee]

This was add awesome message although I'm not fully convinced of the need for head coverings today and I do not fully understand the purpose behind them initially however this message definitely pointed me in the right direction in possibly understanding fully what Paul was speaking about in terms of the head coverings "because of the Angels". Thank you for sharing.

[@d2h655]

God please quickly send me to the church. Let me lice out the rest of my days within the blessed calling of consecrated life

[@mariavlahochristos7756]

Amen Truth

[@crowlikemadness]

Always wear head coverings, I agree with everything that you said.

[@Evridikibio1]

14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

[@GODSPEEDTACTICAL]

Amen!

[@ElizRaphael]

I have seen women with headcoverings who wore, at the same time, short skirts, stretch pants, tight jeans, crop pants, etc. This makes the headcovering look ridiculous. I would rather see a person dressed modestly with no head covering rather than an immodest outfit with the head covering. If modesty and humility were the interior intentions, then the rest of the clothing would be appropriate as well.

[@georgiosgerontas760]

.... maybe it is the devil that shows you his victims and hides you Virgin Mary and the women Saints and so you are becoming his attorney without to realize it because God likes and demands all both , modest dressing and head covering , if one is missing all is wrong. So it is better to be a bee ... kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnS9YqSledKGeLc

[@junicornplays980]

@@mpkropf5062 Maybe the Russian Orthodox, but I have seen plenty of women pants at the Greek Orthodox, Antiochian Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic churches I have attended. I don't often get to wear dresses and skirts in every day life so I do love the fact that I can wear it at church, but I also live in Minnesota and I am grateful I can wear pants.

[@junicornplays980]

Women are more likely to be immodest in their dress than their hair nowadays. I have been to churches where it seemed like if you were a woman and didn't have designer clothes, bags or shoes you were looked down upon. This is even mentioned in 1 Timothy 2:9-10, yet people constantly harp on head coverings.

[@snowps1]

​​​@@junicornplays980 I had a priest personally tell me that it was fine to wear pants to church as a woman as long as you dressed modestly, like not skin tight leggings. He thought it was more inappropriate to see women's bare shoulders from sleeveless tops in church than it was to see a woman in a modest pair of pants.

[@vickyk1861]

​@@snowps1makes sense

[@monicadabney8471]

Traditional Catholic women wear their veils. I wear mine.

[@jenkinsmatthew]

I encourage you to visit a canonical Eastern Orthodox Church, speak to the clergy, and study the Orthodox Saints and Holy Fathers.

[@monicadabney8471]

@@jenkinsmatthew You are quite kind for that invitation. I do much research and true history. At this time a dear saint has led me from Novus Ordo to Tradition. However, I pray for my Orthodox brothers & sisters. I know that the Orthodox have been infiltrated by the stonecutters too.

[@Val.Kyrie.]

Only about half the women in my antiochian church veil. I’m really glad this is being addressed, women should be using head scarves/veils.

[@wonderingpilgrim]

I would have a much easier time accepting his teaching if he and other Orthodox priests all took off and kept off all their hats. I have not yet found a clear answer as to why they don't do this, but scripture is as clear on men NOT covering their heads as it is on women covering them.

[@mrsB0915]

I’ve been experimenting with veiling. I come into the church Easter 2025. I feel we should veil, but when I am veiled it makes me feel beautiful (which makes me worry I am too vain) but also as if I’m giving the impression that I think I’m better than you towards the women who don’t veil (which is the majority at my church).

[@susanedmondson1623]

It is truly an honor to wear a veil in Church. It feels disrespectful not to, also, as women, we like accessorizing. 😂

[@SophieHamilton-d3e]

I couldn’t agree more😂. I never leave my house without putting on a head covering of some sort.

[@leapoecile5318]

"A woman's hair is a glory to her." I'm sorry, but this is just not true for many women. What about women with stringy, thin hair? What about women with significant hair loss due to illness or old age? In my case, for example, I would probably be more attractive with a headcovering than without, because my hair is not beautiful. And as far as headcoverings helping you to focus on the Liturgy, I have found that, when I have worn them, I get distracted by them because they tend to move around and I have to fidget with them. I am definitely more focused on prayer and worship when not wearing one.

[@spytung]

I love to wear a veil but where I am living now it is not common at all and I feel like it draws attention to me when I wear one. It seems to have the opposite effect of what’s intended. So I don’t wear one bc it makes me uncomfortable with the heads turning when the focus should be on the liturgy 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@sharonwalters6135]

Where is St. Mary’s Orthodox Church located?

[@MElias-kk5fv]

Palos Heights, Illinois (near Chicago).

[@letsreasonthisout2898]

I do not deserve honor which is why I do not wear a head cover. But if I am distressing Angels, I will consider it. I feel goofy in a head scarf. I do not wear one out of rebellion, but because they distract me...slipping off and such and are not natural for me. Lord have mercy on me.

[@amycraig3956]

I have the slip problem, too, especially when my hair is freshly washed. I sewed a comb 3 or 4 inches into it so it secures at the top of my head. Worked wonders.

[@jimlbunch]

I was having a similar issue too, especially juggling children. I ended up watching videos on other ways to wear/tie head coverings and it was both fun and helpful.

[@deborahsims201]

Nobody at St.Ediths wore the veil. I am Catholic since 1984 when I was a child I wore a scarf and played NUN. I was baptized Pentecostal

[@iplyrunescape305]

ΑΜΗΝ

[@joshw3010]

My family attends an Antiochian parish in America. About 75% of the women have their heads covered during Divine Liturgy.

[@NFS0038]

Every time I find messages calling to move in the right direction, they seem to come from Antiochian churches. Strange observation.

[@AWAKEnotWOKE84]

As a Roman Catholic, I've heard Priests call for more modesty in attire, and strongly encourage hardcoverings/veils. I was hesitant to wear a veil at first, because I thought that only extremely pius women wore veils. But then I learned that we veil ourselves for love and respect of the true presence of Jesus in the consecrated host😊🕆📿

[@taraakontuli5727]

I don't have anything against wearing a head cover in a Church. Just wondering about that study, the Fr. told about. They probably should've changed the male pictures they showed to women on the test group. I mean, if a women's body doesn't respond seeing a man, it's something to do with that particular man. It's not just any man who causes a heart rate to go up.

[@gelilamartinsen8596]

Amen! How about taking off shoes when entering church? That’s biblical but not practiced. I’ve only seen a few orthodox churches doing that. What do you think?

[@ElizRaphael]

If you're going to take your shoes off, don't leave them right in front of the doorway for others to trip over. There is a family that does this at our church. Parents, please supervise your children, thank you.

[@iplyrunescape305]

where is it stated to take shoes off?

[@πατριχορ]

@@gelilamartinsen8596 That's news to me

[@junicornplays980]

@@iplyrunescape305 Exodus 3:5 “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” Joshua :15 “The commander of the Lord’s army replied, ‘Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.’ And Joshua did so.” At every Divine Liturgy we encounter our God on holy ground, all while wearing shoes. The Hebrew priests in the temple did not wear shoes. Yet now everyone, even priests wear shoes while holding the body of our Lord. We should be respectful and remove them.

[@snowps1]

Don't the Coptics do that?

[@annetteanastassi7433]

Women wore head coverings all the time, inside the house and outside the house. It was the mode of dress at that time. When they went to the Temple, they were in a part where the women stood and their heads were covered. I believe that it is all to do with the evolution of costume. At the second world was, women began wearing trousers because they were working on farms and ammunition factories, also driving ambulances, they were not trying to be men. When we pray to Our Mother, it is from our hearts, whether head covered or not covered. I believe that too much emphasis is put on these matters and not the teaching of Christ. St Paul was writing to the people of his age. Why don’t we ask why are there so few young people in the Church. We need to focus on the teachings of Christ. If women are brought up with head covering or not, it is their love of Christ and Panayia that is important. We are talking about head covering, but I do not remember many priests speaking against the wearing of masks in the Holy Temple, during the Covid period. Surely that was more important. If women wish to cover their heads, cover them, but the Church has other much more important things to preach about.

[@Wizard-Girl9]

What’s abortion got to do with head coverings?

[@pavlaorm-n6192]

This issue is a massive distraction - it is not an confession of faith. I’ve piously worn headcoverings in the Russian Church, in order not to offend where it is more practiced, but I identify so much more strongly with the faith in the Church without one in the Greek Church. The Lord wants us to open our hearts, not to worry and fuss about a minor verse in the Pauline Epistles pertinent to a specific context. I also dislike the chauvinism I see in the Russian Church around the issue. Christ was the very opposite of a chauvinist - men would do well to remember that.

[@vickyk1861]

Agree 100%

[@georgiosgerontas760]

.... If Virgin Mary and women Saints have Veil it is because Veil is in the Eternal Tradition of Orthodox Church and it is an confession of faith to Jesus , and not the religion of fashion. Here in Greece women veil was normal like before 20 - 40 years but a lot of people into the church has left from Orthodoxy to kako-doxy and hypocritically they deny to see the Icons of Virgin Mary and women Saints that are all over the church.

[@laurac5451]

I'm a widow

[@gotogd1233]

Is he speaking about wearing a head covering at all times or is speaking about just while in Church?

[@πατριχορ]

@@gotogd1233 During service, my guess.

[@MissyChezoovy]

I think during mass. I'm Catholic and there are some ladies who really dress up and wear a veil or hat for mass.

[@gotogd1233]

@@MissyChezoovy Yes, Im a traditional Catholic that veils for Church .. There have been times that I cover in public for fasting or deep prayer intentions etc but for most part I do not veil in public anymore.. And for many reasons. I really enjoyed his sermon- it was great! I also wish that more females would veil for Church. However, I do not view it as being 'dressed' up. Not in the least! If anything, it's very humbling and discreet. Just me & Sweet Jesus- King of my Heart/Soul! Been veiling for over 10 years now, after I was called by the Holy Spirit... In all honesty, I actually get repulsed to a degree when I see people going to Church as if they are going for a fashion show of some sort... Ya know, the ones - we've all seen them. Dont get me wrong, I do get dressed for the occasion but it is for the occasion. It's not an everyday/ every Sunday thing for me. Lord forgive, me... but I also get irritated with clergy that emphasise attire and how we are supposed to be dressed as if we are 'going to a wedding' ... While I understand the need to show reverence it just does not suit me and/or my state of grace. For ex, I really don't see Mama Mary wearing heels, push up bras, lipstick, etc etc... I mean, what people consider dressed' up nowadays seems more like costume attire. And I dont put a show on for anyone... I couldn't even if I tried. Just being real Stay Blessed 😘

[@junicornplays980]

@@gotogd1233 As a girl I wasn't taught to wear elaborate hairstyles for church, but I was taught to dress to the nines for church. After reading the Bible as an adult I have toned it down.

[@junicornplays980]

I think he is speaking about wearing it only in church but angels are around us at all times so it's a bit confusing.

[@OmarDenison]

Not compulsory in my local mosque, but very usual. An area where Islam and Christianity converge: the spendid adornment of modesty.

[@junicornplays980]

Personally I think we should be like the Ethiopians where both men and women cover up with a white cloth. I was told it was to show humility and to make all of the congregation the same before God. They also remove their shoes in church. We can learn a lot from them.

[@vickyk1861]

Interesting, never heard of it

[@junicornplays980]

I am usually disappointed by most discussions on 1 Corinthians 11 because they never provide a solid theological reason why women should wear head coverings. The way this sermon talks about the angels is better than most discussions but, if it is true that the angels are somehow in awe of human women, then perhaps we should be like the Muslims and women and girls should veil full time at the beginning of puberty? (Some Protestant Christian women are starting to do this.) I have heard some church fathers mention that a head covering was a sign of submission (sign of authority over a woman), but the word authority used in 1 Corinthians 11 in the Greek, exousia, refers to a woman's own authority over her own head. The only sensible explanation that I have come across is cultural. Professor Michael Weingart has a good video on here called "Head Coverings in Ancient Assyria". We know that both men and women covered in the Middle East as protection against the sun, but the Assyrian empire, which had a huge influence on Middle Eastern societies, correlated status to women's head coverings. Essentially, slave women and women of the lower classes were prohibited from dressing with a head covering, and shaving a woman's head was done to shame her. Married women could wear a veil, and in that way reflected the glory of man because it was a man that made her married and eligible to wear the veil. Thus, Paul is saying that women should have the right to dress respectably despite their social status, especially since angels are present in the liturgy. The fact that it is cultural is seen in the fact that many priests and monks in the various apostolic traditions pray with their head covered, even though 1 Corinthians 11 says it is dishonorable to do so. There is a curious lack of blog articles, sermons, youtube videos, social media posts talking about male religious praying while their head is covered. It says that it's a dishonorable for a man to have long hair, yet our churches are filled with images of a long-haired Christ. Also 11:16 clearly states that the church does not have a custom of requiring slave or lower status women to be uncovered as was the societal norm. I think veiling is beautiful but, it has been used in a misogynistic way against women for far too long. If you would like more women to veil, then encourage men to stop viewing it that way.

[@MagdalenaIsaiah431]

So for those of us who are looked down on for veiling we can turn the tables and tell the non-veil(ers) that they are proclaiming their status as *slaves* because veiling is a privilege reserved *only* for the *free* 😀✝️🙏☦️

[@samumoth]

Paul of Tarsus never even encountered Jesus so whatever he said on the subject of women, veils, submission or modesty is his own interpretation of a Jesus he did not know. Also, a woman can be veiled and immodest, a woman can be unveiled and pure as snow. Priests can do terrible things to children. This is tota nonsense andl hypocrisy!

[@Oghosa-z2s]

⁠​⁠@@samumothPaul never encountered Jesus? So who said “Paul, Paul, why do you persecute me” on the road to Damascus to persecute Christians? This is total nonsense and pure ignorance

[@samumoth]

@@Oghosa-z2s I would have thought it obvious that what was inferred thatPaul had no communication with Jesus in the flesh. Please do not twist history to suit your agenda.

[@Oghosa-z2s]

@@samumoth 1) It wasn’t obvious. “Paul of Tarsus NEVER EVEN ENCOUNTERED JESUS” when it’s basic Christian knowledge that “PAUL ENCOUNTERED JESUS”. “Your original statement did not make it clear if you were talking about encountering Jesus in the flesh or not. 2) I do not have an agenda and I’m not the one twisting history, you are. God bless

[@Evridikibio1]

14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

[@AnakinSkywalkerYT]

That's not the same as covering one's head.

[@Evridikibio1]

@@AnakinSkywalkerYT I'm not the one saying "long hair is given to her as a covering"

[@AnakinSkywalkerYT]

@@Evridikibio1 I don't think you realize that Paul says for women to *wear* head coverings. Does one "wear" hair? I think you know paul isn't talking about long hair in *1 Corinth 11:2-16*. Notably, there also don't seem to very many early Church fathers who held this view- or any at all, for that matter. The consensus among early church teachers seem to be that long hair is a covering, although women should still wear a complimentary veil if possible out of reverence towards the God they worship [*Chrysostom; Homilies on 1 Corintians, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen*] "The long hair, while a natural covering, does not exempt a woman from the practice of wearing a veil in church. The veil signifies adherence to Ecclesiastical order and respect".-Origen, 185 AD. So, none of the men taught by the disciples or by disciples of disciples held your view or interpreted the text how you do.

[@Evridikibio1]

@AnakinSkywalkerYT I get your point but there are 2 issues. 1. I'm reading what it says without interpreting anything, point black what It says. And 2. Jesus came and had some comments about those obsessed with tradition but who lack faith. I'm not surprised men from 2000 years ago held x view. We don't live 2000 ago. And it is not on their view that we are supposed to live. This obsession with covering only goes to show even though Jesus taught that it isn't the physical that we are to be mindful of, people still seem so stuck to only what the eye sees. Her long hair is provided to her as a covering gives me all the info I need, without "interperting" it. It says what it says, it's not a parable. End of discussion.

[@AnakinSkywalkerYT]

@@Evridikibio1 ***Jesus had some comments about those obsessed with tradition*** He had comments about Pharisees denying twelve starving men food on the sabbath. He had comments about Pharisees attempting to execute an adulterous woman whilst ignoring the law saying both should be executed. That's not nearly the same as women not wanting to wear the veil on sundays. Jesus allowed gentiles to live outside of Rabbinic law (*see acts*) and his disciples gave other laws for the gentiles. You still have laws. Christianity is not some "kumbaya, just believe, you'll be fine" religion. Believe it or not, you'll still be accountable for the things you do and don't do [Matt. 7:21] That being said, I doubt not veiling counts as a "sin" although I also doubt that it is a good practice. ***I'm not surprised that men 2000 years ago held that view*** Jesus was a man 2000 years ago, so you've just played yourself bud. Again, you seem to be not understanding the ***point*** of what Jesus was saying. He didn't teach that tradition was worthless. On the contrary, he wore Jewish rabbinic clothes, he observed Sabbatical law, etc. He was a traditional guy. That being said, he understood when tradition and keeping law turned into tyrany, which veiling is not.

[@raissajenna9638]

No headcoverings for me except outside in winter. I couldn’t be happier when headcoverings were no longer required. I’m actually very traditional (and dress very modestly) in spite of the fact that I don’t wish to have to wear my head covered in Church.

[@georgiosgerontas760]

I think that Virgin Mary , our Mother , and also the women Saints do not like this point of view. After all it is just a mind game , to choose to stay at the religion of fashion , or obey to the reveal of God , you choose. Peace 😇

[@raissajenna9638]

@@georgiosgerontas760 You are free to think what you wish. The Church has the authority to make this change on head dress. This is not a doctrinal issue. There are so many serious issues in the Church and the world that are much more important to pray for.

[@georgiosgerontas760]

​@@raissajenna9638 God let us , men and women , free to do as we like , it's in our free will to accept what the church has said , saying and showing for centuries , or to deny it and try to change it according to our education . Not that I make always the right decisions , No , I am a sinner , maybe more than you and I see it takes struggle to stay at Gods Like hood ... Peace ☦

[@raissajenna9638]

@@georgiosgerontas760 Do as you wish. I have already stated that the Church has the authority to make changes. This is not a matter of doctrine.

[@georgiosgerontas760]

​@@raissajenna9638 you can do as you wish also , but the church did not make any changes , the Orthodox church says that women should cover their head when praying. This has not changed for centuries . To change this it takes a Synod to be done.

[@billybobwombat2231]

Born with hair, let the natural be free, dont constrain what was gifted.

[@No-1.In.Particular]

I always thought women wore head coverings as a means of respecting a man’s struggle with lust. For there are many men out there who struggle so greatly with this common passion, that all they need to see is merely the hair upon her head flowing past her face or down her back to be sent into a frenzy which leads to adultery in heart.

[@_m4r1ss4_9]

It can be, but most of the responsibility for a man falling into lust simply from the sight of a woman is up to the man. If hair arouses a man, then surely her face can too? Women's modesty is important, especially in church, but it's also important for the men to monitor their own thoughts and lust.