Wonder Woman 1984 Is a Bitter Disappointment | Melina Pendulum

[@Almandarina2]

Also, the mayans still exist. I'm from México and you can still find A LOT of mayan people.

[@antonellamR2D2]

I bet your hair is better then the guy in the movie 💜 I found that so racist!

[@leigy100]

There are six million Mayans in Mesoamerica. Also, I live in New England and we have hundreds, probably thousands, of people of Mayan descent from Belize and Guatemala. Also...Diana can read Mayan glyphs, but does not think to help aid the Mayan people in their decades long quest to try and get back their ability to read their glyphs? What heroic things does she do exactly? She works at a museum helping to catalogue stolen artifacts. Our hero??

[@gucciasalways]

Literally like none of the civilizations she named having held the stone “mysteriously” fell. Lmao half of them fell at the hands of Rome ffs. It’s nitpicky but ugh it bothered me sm

[@nyikomaswanganyi5983]

@@gucciasalways I love reading about history so it was weird to me(honestly irritating)when they mentioned how they mysteriously all vanished. When it's well documented what happened to all those civilizations.

[@twenty-fifth420]

Irrelevant, but Mayan glyphs are cool as fuck. Sincerely, someone who is part Nahua/Aztec.

[@tariqthomas9090]

This movie came off hella problematic at certain points. For one, I really hated the fact that Cheetah beating up her assaulter was treated as a moment of her “going too far”. Secondly, Diana being okay with Steve’s soul possessing someone else’s body just felt...wrong.

[@siriushpfan]

I don't disagree that Barbara/Cheetah's assaulter deserved to have the shit beat out of him but the scene was framed as such that it seemed like she was ready to kill him and would not have stopped had she not gotten caught. Which is... awkward and uncomfortable. And for what? To make a point that she is a "badass" now? That she is using her new found power for "evil" and so she is the side villain now? Ugh, this movie could have done better in so, so many ways. It's frustratingly disappointing and just overall sad. I want better for this franchise.

[@nothankstvcomputergod2374]

True on both points. Also how about the Arab private security force in Kuwait being faceless villains when really they were brainwashed by the wish. It's ok for her to hurt them and then swoop in to rescue 2 Arab kids. The rich Kuwaiti prince wanted to get his ancestral land back and that was seen as evil...smells a bit like catering to expansionist Israel Zionism.

[@wisdommanari6701]

Sooooo... I like someone else pointed out felt, like it was the point of her enjoying the torment that paints her in a negative light. If she had defended herself and hurt him and told him to leave her and other women alone idt anyone would bat any eye. But since they made the scene a character comparison between her and Dianna you can't help but see the dynamic. She could have Broken one of his hands (the one he used to try and grab her) and tell him if he ever grabs another woman again she'll break the other and I don't think anyone would blink at that. But it's the intentional power reversal and him crawling away that makes her SEEM bad.

[@davidsumner7604]

@@nothankstvcomputergod2374 You mean like how she beats up a bunch of white robbers and then secret service agents. The EGYPTIAN oil magnate wants to restore an old dynasty and the point is how wishing for a return to a nostalgic "glorious" past could cause greater harm for the present. Your comment about "expansionist Israel Zionism" could have been written by an Alt-Right blogger.

[@JaiProdz]

Catwoman literally first appears while killing a rapist but in 2020 they make Barbara feel bad for kicking the butt of a man who wanted to rape her???? And then...they make Diana a literal rapist in the film. I'd rather watch Black Canary save a drunk Harley from being assaulted and the whole film being a brutal, comic book fest than the bore tht was 1984

[@tulip324]

Im so glad someone said it! How does she not care that she can never see her mother, sisters or friends again but is falling to her knees over a man she knew for how long??? It just screamed “my life wasnt worth living until a man walked in it.” I hated it the first movie and i hated it even more in this one.

[@Klm49]

Yes! I was like, why hasn't she tried to go home again to visit yet? She really doesn't miss the entire island of women who raised her, her mother and aunt? The only person she misses is this dude she knew for like less than a week in 1917?!?! I was so angry!

[@otterzrkuhl]

WoahhItsMonica I completely agree. If they wanted to use the wish stone thing they could’ve done something like she wishes she can go back to her family, but the consequence is that the entire world finds out about them or something.

[@sisSonders]

@@Klm49 and she’s bi, I’m sure she has an Ex gf

[@Aslianaa]

For 4 days. They did know each other for 4 days and then she mourned him for ~70 years. So strange.

[@griffenspellblade3563]

@@Klm49 She was banished. She can never go home, in leaving the island to fight in WWI she lost everything. It's one of the things that should be brought up more.

[@lucindaegonzales]

At first when Diana was losing her powers, I thought the stone was taking her powers and giving them to Barbara, which I thought would have made for a much more interesting story than the standard "losing them for a man".

[@wisdommanari6701]

I mean I get what you're saying. I also think it goes to show how much she loves helping others with her powers and using them for good. In superman 2nd movie he intentionally gave them up to be with Lois. Here she didn't even think that yh was damn thing was real. Also I know it's dumb but I'm a sucker for people doing "dumb" things in the name of love.

[@toyosibee.mp3]

SAME HAT, i was like “OHHHH THIS IS NEAT” but then they outright say “oh nope, these are unrelated” and i went 😐 oh

[@CharlieCharlieProduxtions]

Omg I thought the same thing! I didn’t realize she was losing them because of Steve. Now that I know....it kinda sucks 😔

[@ExeErdna]

This honestly happened in the canon where Artemis became WW and Diana lost her powers becoming somewhat of a spy. Then the "wishing stone" such a bad McGuffin. Barbara should have just stay human in this one and played the supporting role. The choices they made for Steve, I swear must have sounded "cool" in somebody's head yet on screen it's bad.

[@MsKristinaRose]

I thought the same thing, especially since she wished to be like Diana.

[@russianspy1234]

"Wonder Woman was a mediocre movie and because it was a mediocre movie it happened to be exceptional for the DCEU" Bwahahaha yup.

[@moxxibekk]

I would have loved a subtle nod to all the social movements that happened since she stayed in America. Showing a few random background shots of her marching for civil rights, women's lib, LGBTQ. And I totally could see her teaching some after hours self defense classes to women once she realized how vulnerable they are in this world.

[@nikkipooh9]

Oooooo! Love the self defense idea! I believe she said something about her having to stay hidden though because of something established in another movie. But I really love that idea! That could've tied her to the world more. Giving her motivation to fight. Or trying to connect to humans though she outlives them and is in this grieving space.

[@rileykim6068]

When Steve Trevor came back to life my sister and I were joking about how he would react to all those movements like "Diana, the negroes have rights now. This is terrible, we have to fix this" or "Diana woman shouldn't be able to vote, their brains are too small." You know, because he's from the 1920s

[@aarronobsidian5597]

Well there was photo of her liberating some of the Holocaust survivors which I thought was nice cuz ever since the first movie I wondered if she helped during WW2 and now we got an answer.

[@undertaker9991]

Sorry. It wasn't that kind of movie. Star Wars is to your left.

[@Klm49]

Yes!!!!

[@camipco]

Your weakest argument here is "if walking in heels is a demigod thing then anoint Naomi Campbell"... because yes, anoint Naomi Campbell.

[@ajburgess6843]

I didn't understand why she was SO hung up on Steve Trevor. They had a few good moments but in this cinematic universe she didn't really know him that long.

[@khalilgiovanni]

I think it had less to do with Steve himself and was more of a “the first man I ever met was also the first man I ever loved” aspect. There was also a bit of a trauma bond formed between the two because they fell for each other within days. They saved each other’s lives, they went to war together and he died to save her/the world. She respected him even after all she was taught about men. Having said all that I don’t know why they’re making her so stuck on him decades later. Like to the point where she won’t even have friends? Come on.

[@JaiProdz]

@Nic same. I watched the film but googled it last week. Apparently it's hinted at during the hotel/room scene? When they go to sleep? Idk. This movie makes it more clear tht they sleep together but it also still makes their apparent "love" feel out of nowhere. It's random when u think abt it.

[@Klm49]

Thank You!!! We watched the 1st movie like a week before, so when she is all depressed about Steve still, I was like, she knew him for like 1week tops in the midst of fighting in WW1, and yet he's all she can think of for 70years?!! And the idea that the first guy you sleep with, here the first man she ever met, is the only thing that matters and not her family or home, felt just really insulting.

[@swanpride]

It's because Steve Trevor is the spoonful of sugar which is meant to make the female lead go down for the male audience.

[@swanpride]

@Nic I don't mind Wonder Woman standing for peace, because that is kind of what I expect of her. But I don't think that this goes against her being kickass. To me this version of Wonder Women went wrong from the get go. Lynda Carter's version went with the origin story of Amazon's being so powerful because they could develop "unhindered by men", and her getting the task to fight in WWII due to her winning a tournament, in which she prooved to be the best of the best. It really angered me when they replace this by the "created by (male) gods/chosen one" nonsense. That she is constantly playing second fiddle to Steve Trevors is just the poop cherry ond the shit pile.

[@ItsTheFizz]

One thing I've noticed about DC these last few years is that their current brain trust would rather write around Wonder Woman than about her, like she's some sort of albatross...

[@MrBazBake]

For all of Snyder's faults, he decided to make Wonder Woman the leader of the Justice League. Then Whedon took over and made the whole movie about how the team was helpless without Superman, spent all of the movie's runtime wondering when solardaddy would show up to save them, and then had his first move when joining the team be to listen to Batman explain that Diana was the leader and have Superman go, "No, so here's the real plan" as if to completely stomp on her. Reading Whedon's script for Wonder Woman, it's obvious why he did that in hindsight. But it's jarring how DC seems to not be leaning into their strengths. Even Marvel was smart enough to realize once you had Iron Man you didn't try to pretend that the MCU's most important character was Spider-Man or Captain America. EDIT: Wait... is Aquaman the DCEU's version of Iron Man now? Is this the mirror universe where we can say with a straight face that the most popular DCEU character is Aquaman?

[@mynameisuju]

@@MrBazBake first of, solardaddy??? 😂😂 nah you got me good. Also, yeah I would say Aquaman is inching towards the most popular in this new DC. For one the actor that plays him is the most likeable Male actor they have, and the only one able to bring an inch of that likeability to screen. Which was basically how RDJs iron man became the most popular in Marvel

[@ArvelDreth]

That's how most super hero films are in general.

[@FreyaEinde]

That’s because most of her comic history is really freaking weird and doesn’t suit the grim dark aesthetic the current DC universe is stuck in. Really they should lean towards the goofier aspects because the better movies have that aspect

[@micahcook2408]

FreyaEinde and I never understood why can’t their be goofier aspects in the darker tone? I mean that’s why Black Comedy/Dramedy is a thing or a comedic beats in horror films or the comedic relief characters are a thing.... I guess that’s the all or nothing “get it done before the deadline” type of thinking most of Hollywood may have.

[@13realmusic]

Birds of Prey was a phenomenal movie and I think they even took more of a step forward by how they represented the male villians as boring and shallow instead of catering to the incel idealized misunderstood genius. And the women were just killing it and allowed to exist together no jealousy.

[@Iexapro]

Birds of Prey is amazing and the promo with all the hard hitting pop artists (Normani, Megan Thee Stallion, Doja Cat etc) was amazing. How to revive a series after the first installment was a flop 101.

[@kinare1853]

Exactly! Birds of prey was a great movie

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

Birds of Prey is frustrating because I do agree with all of that, but the horrific way they handled Cassandra Cain was unforgivable. Just like WW84 has some good elements that get overshadowed by one or two horrendous things.

[@Mrbluefire95]

Ah, so wanting to not have mustache twirling villains makes me an incel. Cringe. Absolute cringe.

[@kinare1853]

@@Mrbluefire95 I mean, not every villain has to be some misunderstood loner genius. There can be villains who are just not complicated and be seen for what they actually are.

[@isobelhoover5761]

The framing device makes me mad because Greeks loved cunning heroes. Diana used her brain to solve a problem that should have been the lesson.

[@MrBazBake]

Diana cheated to win a contest she wasn't good enough to compete in. All the other riders had to do was turn their horses ninety degrees and ride downhill. When I saw Diana spot that drainage ditch the first thing that went through my head was, "I swear to God, if they let her win this without shooting those targets..." When they called her out, I laughed because it completely subverts the exact same military training scenes from both animated Mulan and Captain America, both made by Disney, where they make everyone else seem completely stupid to make the main character seem super-spesh. The fact that they were like, "No, figuring out a way to cheat does not make you special because the only way you could use that way to win is if everyone else agreed not to cheat" totally sent me because I was tired of seeing this trope increasingly taken to ridiculous extremes (although it was great in Mulan, not going to lie). It's a useful lesson people probably need to unlearn and children need to be taught, at least in American culture where the ends constantly justify the means. (Which is exactly why I see a lot of people online lashing out and getting twisted up at being told they probably should stop screwing other people over to get ahead.)

[@snuffles504]

@@MrBazBake I still don't understand why that was cheating, though. She fell off her horse but picked herself up and found a way to get back in the race. If we wanna talk about how unprepared Diana was for the competition, let's instead talk about how she kept looking over her shoulder to check on the competition instead of keeping her eyes on the damn prize. Also...Mulan? Didn't cheat? Using ingenuity rather than brute force to reach the arrow was kinda the whole point of the movie (Mulan was able to do many "extraordinary" things among men because she didn't feel bound by society's limitations of gender expectations).

[@rochelledliu]

@@snuffles504 I think the cheating bit comes from her not hitting the targets the way everyone else had to. When she got whacked in the face and fell off her horse, her shortcut meant she completely missed the targets needed to keep everyone informed of her movements. Her blue flag stopped halfway and then she showed up in the arena just ahead of the other competitors. Had she truly just picked herself back up and got her horse, then WENT BACK to hit all those targets she missed and then somehow became the winner of the event, then it's pure forkin' will and serious skill, and not cheating.

[@snuffles504]

@@rochelledliu So from the perspective of the Themyscira spectators it makes sense that Diana cheated - they didn't see what happened, they only have the flags to convey the placements. So by missing several checkpoints it looks to them like Diana just skipped ahead in the race. The thing is, though, the movie audience sees that she DID do the course correctly, albeit while losing her bow and therefore her ability to hit checkpoints. So the messaging of this sequence is muddled because the film doesn't clearly present its desired perspective.

[@kcwells2751]

The thing about the entire opening sequence? Is that it shouldn’t have even happened to begin with. In terms of continuity, in the first film, Diana’s training as a child was forbidden, and her mother didn’t even catch her training until she was a teenager. There’s no way her mother would’ve even allowed her to participate in the Amazon Olympics as a child. Let alone watch her compete proudly. The opening sequence to WW84 completely retcons the first movie just so it can teach an ambiguous lesson that is loosely interpreted and applied throughout the rest of the movie.

[@DiscoBewts]

I watched this twice and I didn't even realize that Diana lost her powers because of Steve, I initially thought she lost her powers because of Barbara wishing to be like Diana (which in my mind thought that she was siphoning Diana's abilities)....My best friend mentioned Diana healing after a certain point and then it all clicked that it was because of Steve..........My theory is cooler than the film's :(

[@khalilgiovanni]

I thought that’s what it was too at first 😂

[@Carabas72]

To be fair, th film spells it out explicitly. Until then, I thought that was what was happening too.

[@yikesyikes5974]

I thought the same thing too. I was like Barbara wished to be like Diana so she draining her powers. You are not the only one.

[@gigif169]

Me too!!!!

[@bicarbonat1]

@HydratedPisces's way would give Barbara even _more_ reason to hate Diana, as a parasite that unfairly hates the host for cutting it off. Barbara would further despise Diana for what she'd perceive as rocking the boat because she'd think, "Spoiled Diana had everything and had the nerve to be sad about her boyfriend; then she got him back and it STILL wasn't enough - she had to take my only thing away from me"

[@NinetailPhoenix]

I’m glad you said that Diana’s “We are the World” speech didn’t move you because not only did not move me also when they zoomed in on Diana’s face during her speech, her makeup was impeccable. Not a smudge or smear in sight, after having a semi-decent fight with Cheetah ending the fight by electrocuting-drowning her. She has perfect eyeliner and mascara in makeup from 1984. Also her hair is perfectly coiffed and going from water to being smacked around by Max Lord’s wish wind. Compared to Barbara at the end who rightfully looks like a drowned cat. Wonder Woman wouldn’t care if her hair and makeup looked good, she also wouldn’t have talked down Max Lord she would’ve put hands on him. WW84 Max Lord isn’t Comic book Max Lord, who by the way Diana killed. Diana wouldn’t have been so hellbent on keeping Steve cause she know better.

[@mori6434]

I remember during the scene where Steve finally convinces Diana to renounce her wish, and during this big emotional moment I turned to my mom and said "look, you can tell her powers are gone because her hair isn't perfect" and if that doesn't tell you how emotionally disconnected we were from literally everything this movie was trying to do, I don't know what does.

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

I actually liked that Diana had to talk down Max and that Max wasn’t an irredeemable monster. It felt like a huge fuck you to that terrible comic story where the opposite of both things happened.

[@tannajoy_]

I was SO upset Wonder Woman didn’t get to whoop ass in this movie! She lectured him into humanity 🙄

[@mnewcomb2060]

This felt like a plain toast movie to me. Diana is so sterile and perfect that I had no investment in her character. When this is supposed to be a movie about women, and I'm more interested in watching Chris Pine do his funky little thing, you know there's a problem.

[@siriushpfan]

"...watching Pine do his funky little thing..." This comment made me realize that I felt more joy and connection to this movie during that scene when Steve is in the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum than any other time in the film. There was not a single moment where I felt sweeping happiness or even an engaged interest in Diana and her life. Please hold, weeping for this franchise that I wanted so badly to do well for itself. Ugh.

[@ganasde65]

Eh i disagree. Idk why everyone says Steve is the best character when he isn’t. WW is supposed to be stoic and not a relatable comic relief. The most powerful moment of the movie was when Steve disappeared and Diana runs away, her scars disappear and she lassos the sky. Gal did a great job.

[@mnewcomb2060]

@@ganasde65 Yeah, I get that. I've never read the comics, tbh. I liked the first movie better, and maybe that has something to do with the bigger range of emotion on display there. And she still had her steely, badass moments then. I feel like that's the difference between stoic and sterile.

[@sevenchambers]

@@ganasde65 Shill

[@ganasde65]

@@sevenchambers Simp*

[@lisrt7350]

Melina... she raped a random guy for multiple days. She took his possessed body into other countries and into danger. She MET THE GUY SHE RAPED at the end and felt sorry only for herself. I'm just... this movie is a big no for me.

[@nealeellis4455]

I found this so problematic at how she had no qualms about it and how 2 Dimensional it was

[@Ren-ls4yl]

YES. Shit when I first found out about it, I was mortified. The movie reeks of misandry - a feature of "FemiNazis"

[@Not-a-Clitori-a-ClitorUS]

Yeah, and there wasn’t even a REASON for this side plot, it’s never expanded upon

[@bookNerd151]

@@Ren-ls4yl Is ‘FemiNazis’ a fun pulpy (accidentally feminist) B movie I need to see?

[@MycLovin]

😮🤯

[@Liboo52]

It’s boggles the mind that WW84, with it’s “my life is sad and lonely without my man” main character and primary female-female relationship being defined by petty jealousy, was made by the writer-director of Monster

[@sharkofjoy]

I knowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww :(

[@iluvdrakeandjosh]

I really was a fan of the beginning and her relationship with Barbara had potential to branch out and grow beyond the cliché set up. And then in comes Steve and out goes the movie's coherence on that end. And she feels completely tacked on as you said because of it. It feels like it's going to be about Diana linking herself to the present day and finally letting go of Steve but what was her connection to the people? To this world? It certainly wasn't Maxwell or Barbara. And what you said about her not longing for her family, her old friends or her *mother*. No one to take that spot either to tether her to this world. And that's my main problem with the movie. Who is Diana really? What does she fight for *now*?

[@moxxibekk]

It's extra sad when you think about how connecting her longing to be with family and her community could have been to so many separated due to the pandemic.

[@nikkipooh9]

Amen

[@Frey12]

I just think Act 1 Barbara would have led to Act 2 Barbara hitting on Diana. Because it really didn't seem like Cheetah was all that jealous. Either way I ship it.

[@ScuubaSteefe]

I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but in Kevin Smith's last episode of Fatman Beyond Marc Bernardin had the same issues about the focus being taken away onto Maxwell and pitched a tighter movie focusing on Barbara and Diana, with also letting go of Steve having a greater significance. Something about this movie screams studio mandate once Steve enters the picture. It made Diana's speech at the end seem so hollow when it doesn't match up with any of her experiences through the movie. I'm just hoping the third movie will finally let that mess go already and really hone in on the Amazons.

[@iluvdrakeandjosh]

@@ScuubaSteefe That is interesting. Kevin isn't really my cup of tea most of the time, as you put lol. But I do enjoy his back and forth with Marc and I'm always interested in getting others perspectives on how to fix things so I might check that out and see what they say specifically in that pitch. It might line up with what I was thinking or give me something new.

[@qlipothian]

She-Ra and Catra are better versions of Wonder Woman and Cheetah.

[@fossilfighters101]

+

[@belegl.7721]

The solution, as always, is to make it more She-Ra

[@robmoney]

Where does Stargirl and Wildcat fit into this?

[@belegl.7721]

@@robmoney Magic warrior woman/catgirl seems to be a really popular pairing

[@fy8798]

@@belegl.7721 Always has been.

[@swiftfated]

Early on my sister said "I hope they make barbara the villain" and I was like "I hope she dates Diana but ok" But when we got to the scene of barbara beating up the creep she was like "I meant a fun villain like Jeff Goldblum in thor Ragnarok, why did they give us the worst possible version of this"

[@sockpuppetmogwai856]

I agree Diana and Barbara should have clicked and Diana tried to convince Barbara by using the lasso to show her that Diana did like her and how good of a person she was.

[@ohman9068]

yes! I thought they were setting up a romantic thing between Diana and barbara at the beginning but everyone I was watching it with said I was just reading too much into it lmao

[@Zvwry]

I was hoping her and Diana got together as well lmao

[@brendanrouth3807]

Charlize Theron’s Andy in The Old Guard on Netflix is imo the closest we’ve gotten to a flawed, fucked up, BvS-esque Wonder Woman in her own movie

[@mocinhatrampante]

Watch it bro

[@theryaninwinter]

Coincidentally, The Old Guard was created by Greg Rucka, who's done two excellent runs on the Wonder Woman comic. His take on the character is criminally overlooked.

[@19melina92]

Ah yes I love that movie!

[@covahginvandyk9706]

@@theryaninwinter Greg Rucka is a great writer!

[@Carabas72]

I wish they'd put Greg Rucka's version of Wonder Woman (and Cheetah) in a movie.

[@mchikos]

I wish they explored Barbara and Diane almost becoming friends more. That could have been connected to Diane trying to connect to the world. But they stop exploring that to explore everything else. They really could’ve had Diane and Barbara working together throughout the movie until Barbara’s betrayal. After watching this video I realize her wish should’ve been to go home or see her family. .

[@benodinson]

I honestly thought that was going to be her wish as well. Especially when we got the opening scene with her time on Themyscira. I thought given Diana character it would've made sense for her to miss the community of Amazons more so than Steve.

[@Carabas72]

Really, Barbara and Diana should have been the main focus of the film, and Goddamn Steve shouldn't even have been in it. If you can't get over a dead guy after 70 years you do not get to call yourself Wonder Woman.

[@dejajade6726]

Because they weren't friends for long Barbara's betrayal and the shift in their dynamic wasn't as impactful as it could have been. When Barbara's shouting at Diana like you've had everything and I've had nothing, I was just there like but you don't know anything about Diana; you've had like one lunch together, calm down. Their whole thing felt cheap and wasn't as deep as the writers thought it was.

[@Carabas72]

@@dejajade6726 I suspect that a lot of the Barbara Minerva stuff got cut.

[@dejajade6726]

@@Carabas72 They could have just introduced her in this movie and then have her be the main villain in the third. Wasted potential.

[@CozyGamer92]

"And whoever put that wig on her....They chose violence." 😂😂😂😂 GIRL

[@_hunnybe]

"Technically by being a human you ARE an apex predator" ugh thank you I thought the same thing to myself while watching like 🤨

[@TheRabbitHiro]

Were more Herbivores, many apex predators have claws and fangs.

[@kalenberreman8252]

"Everyone is obsessed with how beautiful she is, but what else is there?" That's the whole problem with Gadot. She has beauty and charm (that is largely the result of that beauty) and nothing else to offer the role. That worked in the first movie where she was naive and childlike but it was badly exposed here. She was the worst actor in both WW movies.

[@sevenchambers]

Gal is a model not an actress.

[@PaperMario64]

@@sevenchambers and it shows

[@swanpride]

Honestly, the problems were already there in the first movie. I called it a spoonful of suggar feminism...meaning that it was very concerned with making the fact that there was a female lead palatable to the male audience. I am not surprised that it gotten even worse now, the moment they said Chris Pine would be in it I feared this outcome.

[@pauldavies6810]

Charm?!

[@Flameclaw123]

Why did they bother to give Wonder Woman her invisible jet if they ALSO gave her flight powers in the same movie... why not just have her learn to fly a plane if they wanted it to be about Steve teaching her how to do it. Once you can fly you don't really need a jet. Just pick one or the other for the scope of a single movie lmao

[@Flameclaw123]

@222ckc Yeah I'd rather they just skipped it altogether or pushed it off for a future movie. This movie was so packed with plot threads and half-formed themes, it really didn't need one more thrown in there 3/4 of the way through the movie just so Zack Snyder could do another "look see they're doing the Jesus superman pose as they descend!" shot

[@Carabas72]

Because comics are weird. The jet and the flight powers are but wonderfully iconic elements from the comics that come from two very different, unreconcilable versions of the character.

[@yikesyikes5974]

Thank you!!!!!

[@mori6434]

Finally, someone else thinks it too! They had all the pieces right there, Diana could have spend those 70 years since he died learning to fly planes in his memory. Boom. Done. Plot holes closed, characterization moment for Diana, point of interaction with Steve over shared knowledge, all wrapped up in one convenient bundle. It practically wrote itself and they still managed to make dumb choices.

[@nas7416]

I’m happy you brought up how Diana’s extra abilities stem from Zeus and that’s what makes her special when the whole point of Amazons were that they were gifted these abilities by the Olympian goddesses. It’s just funny to make a story where there exists this race of women who are empowered by other women but the strongest and most special of them all is actually that way because she’s empowered by a man 🥴

[@wisdommanari6701]

Idk, in lots of continuity shes molded from clay and Zeus brings her to life.

[@sockpuppetmogwai856]

In the first movie they actually changed that to be that Zeus was why the Amazons existed and the ONLY reason they still do as he gave up a lot of his power to save them. So in the DCEU its always linked back to Zeus

[@bloopsagain]

And to add insult to injury, there’s the fact that Zeus was, ya know, ZEUS

[@sevenchambers]

WW pulling invisible force fields out of her ass was stupid.

[@seanian8986]

Patty Jenkins has well documented daddy issues

[@isabexiefromthehall]

This whole feminism marketing thing is awful, now I feel kinda sad when I don't like a female character, when like… she's a character I can not like her. Like Rey from Star Wars, I've spent so much time trying to like her and only recently I came to realize that this was me 100% buying Disney's bs discourse of "DONT CRITICIZE US BE HAPPY THERES A WOMAN IN STAR WARS".

[@MrBazBake]

There's a lot to like about Rey in the first two movies. She's cute, funny, kind, stubborn, and industrious. But no one HAS to like her to keep being a feminist. It's okay to even hate her. It just means we need MORE women starring in movies so it's okay to hate some of them.

[@Abdullahalsarraf]

@@MrBazBake I honestly think that female characters went downhill since the whole woke-feminisim thing started.. i miss strong characters like Katniss from hunger games and Ellen Ripley from Alien ect..

[@animeotaku307]

It’s okay to dislike or even hate a character that breaks boundaries. What’s not okay is basing it on the boundaries they break (being female, being black, etc.). For instance, I’ve seen a lot of criticism towards Abby in TLoU2. Some of it is because they didn’t like her as a person or felt her narrative wasn’t handled well while others were all “women can’t have muscles!” The former is based on how someone feels about the character themself which, whether you agree with it or not, is valid. The latter is based more on what the character represents - creatives pushing boundaries and being more inclusive - and says a lot of not good things about the person saying it. And in your case, the dislike seems to come from the realm of “I want better than what we got,” which is absolutely valid. No one should be satisfied with just crumbs and should want more than the bare minimum.

[@KaiseaWings]

I liked Rey, the problem was they prioritised her over the more interesting characters of Finn, Poe and Rose.

[@Frosting1000]

@@Abdullahalsarraf huh??? I thought Katniss was a pretty recent character??? She was definitely a part of the “woke-feminism” thing... I mean a lot of Hollywood has been packaging characters that embody “girl power” and feminism and shit for a long time with it not always working...even before the late 2010s-now

[@sappho114]

The horrible, anti-arab racism killed this one for me before I could even watch it, honestly. Feels like something that came out around 9/11 with how they treat it - but what should one expect with avid IDF defender Gal Gadot in the titular role? Nauseating.

[@davidsumner7604]

Arabs are not treated worse than Americans in this movie. You're just looking for something to be offended by. Also, God bless the IDF!

[@Violetclowns]

Isnt gal gadot a zionist 🤢

[@davidsumner7604]

@@Violetclowns Yeah, more reason to like her.

[@williamherman9065]

Anti-Arab treatment and racism? So, I guess you missed the entire treatment of White Men, Women in general, Americans, and basically anyone who lived through the 1980s?

[@baiwatch1]

Any good movies where Reagan is the big 80s villain? That would be fun.

[@gigaman6]

Ooo, thank you for saying it. This movie was DRY AS HELL. This movie was left-out-Thanksgiving-turkey-reheated-in-the-toaster-oven, dry. Lord. You are CORRECT. The bar is so low and people are perfectly fine with it staying low.

[@beef1000]

"white feminist chickens come home to roost" pulling this one out a lot more from now on

[@Rose_Bride]

My biggest issue (and I have SEVERAL with this half-baked attempt) is how the film trivializes the fact that Diana and Steve are _USING_ this random guy's body for _their own personal pleasure_ . There is a single throwaway line mentioning that this guy "only" has pictures of himself in his home. I guess this is supposed to signify to the audience that he is "un-attached" with NO partner/significant other and thus it's "okay" for them to use this man's body like a tool despite not having his consent. That's *NOT* okay. If the roles were reversed, and Steve were female and Diana male, there would have been _riots_ calling for people to black-ball this film. But as is usual in the case of male assault, most people's reaction seems to be along the lines of "well who would complain about the chance to sleep with a beautiful woman?" This is problematic and disturbing. With the Me-too movement and everything going on, this whole situation just felt very creepy and tone deaf. Not to mention the AIDS epidemic was at its highest in the 80's but the film shows no concern for this. I guess Diana HERSELF can't catch human diseases or get ill but it seems a little cavalier nonetheless. Not only that, but there is NO MENTION of this guy's job. After so many days of no-show at work, he has likely been terminated. Diana does not seem concerned. In fact, she shows no care about the thought of this guy _losing his life_ so that Steve can -steal- his. And the whole clothing montage could have been cut in favor of adding more character development for Steve, (or Minerva). Steve NEVER asks about his old soldier friends from the first film. He NEVER asks about Etta Candy, his quirky assistant from the first film. He is ONLY concerned with poptarts and clothing. And airplanes. Because Steve is a pilot. The movie _NEVER LETS US FORGET_ that Steve is a pilot. What happened to _Serious_ ™ Steve concerned with saving the world and stopping the war? Why does he never ask about what happened AFTER the war?? Who is this great pretender?

[@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770]

The most puzzling thing about this is that there's literally no reason to have him come back in another guy's body. It's almost like they were trying to be creepy. Like, it's this intentional pro-rape message. Seriously, WTF? I joke about the writers being on drugs when they wrote this, but who knows, maybe they were. I mean, honestly, I think that's the most logical explanation.

[@floffy2695]

"If the roles were reversed" I'd like to point out HUNDREDS of films with the roles reversed, with the woman being the victim, and nearly all of which were romanticized anyways. Twilight, The Notebook, 50 shades, 365 Days AND SO MUCH MORE. You underestimate just how much women being r*ped has been romanticized, so if the roles were reversed, people would have still seen it as romantic.

[@MaryamMaqdisi]

@@floffy2695^^^

[@screamingbegins4688]

​@@floffy2695and either way, its gross

[@egsauce2911]

I miss the times when you could joke “Do you know why Wonder Woman’s villain line up is so limited? Because she gets things done” because, whooo boy, is the modern film Diana all about just... avoiding conflict all together. Which could work, I guess, if you show that she has some snap and is willing to set things in line by force but chooses to try to outstretch a hand first. That gets waylaid if she never tries to flex anything but would rather look perfect 100% of the time. It’s so... boring. And idealized white male fantasy of a powerful woman.

[@que6025]

Isn't part of her whole deal in the comics/cartoons that she's a warrior and therefore doesn't have that same "thou shalt never kill" baggage as Batman and Superman. Seems like these movies kinda throw that whole dynamic out the window after the Ares fight in WW1

[@blitzkriegdragon013]

Yeah but this movie went more into how wonder woman actually deals with her f villains. Which is what that comic quote was referencing. She makes her enemies see the good in themselves through the lasso. And she’s not a murder machine like she is in the new 52. Now if you think that’s better or worse that’s an entirely different conversation. But I do prefer the version of Diana that makes people see the good in themselves.

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

I don’t. Wonder Woman has a rogues gallery same as any other mainstay member of the justice league, it’s just that Egg Fu and Angle Man don’t have quite the same draw as the Joker or Braniac. She’s a syndicated comics character, of COURSE she has a shit-ton of villains. Framing it to be that she has less iconic villains than people like Batman and Superman because she just murders them is inaccurate and revisionist. Additionally, it’s cynical, and pessimistic to frame a value of human life as a weakness of character, or a FLAW for a superhero to have.

[@maxalaintwo3578]

Deferring to fight is sexist now? Would you rather have had her kill Barbara, kill Max, and kill the White House guards? Wtf was she supposed to do?

[@cui8789]

How is she avoiding conflict? She wasn't in the first movie and she didn't in BvS. She sure didn't in this film.

[@CharlieCharlieProduxtions]

You are the first person I’ve seen mention Gal’s limited range as an actor. Her range (or lack there of) was the reason I wasn’t a huge fan of the first Wonder Woman film. I was beginning to think I was the only one who could see it.

[@marialarson1711]

She wasn’t good in the first movie, but she was better. Remember when she went to London? She expressed determination to get to the front line, exasperation at Steve who is trying to control her. And she sees a random baby and fuckin’ *melts*. She had more acting moments in the five minutes after she came to London than in the entire ww84

[@k.morningstar7983]

Redlettermedia's always keyed in on that. good boys, all in all

[@masonallen3961]

I will give a lukewarm defense of Gal Gadot's performance. I wouldn't call her a great actor but she is a great Wonder Woman because she looks like a Wonder Woman. I don't just mean physically. Everything about her seems very Wonder Womanesque. I might be biased as she's the only Wonder Woman I've known but if you say a "super-powered princess from an island populated by only badass female warriors living in our world" she comes immediately to mind. I can she why she was cast. She makes a believable wonder woman.

[@Liboo52]

The “modern art = trashcan” joke is so tired and cliche. Side note: Marcel Duchamp’s famous sculpture “Fountain” was revealed in 1917, the year before Wonder Woman 1 takes place, and it’s literally just a urinal, so idk if they had a point singling out art in the 80’s as being “when art got weird” but it just didn’t strike me as very funny or clever haha

[@lzmunch]

Ppl calling duchamp's urinal "the reason modern art is trash" is so funny like, it was basically a meme. It's like reading sarcasm literally lmao.

[@Sofia-re3hj]

i haven't seen the movie and you just gave me another reason not to lol. imagine ignoring dadaism and pop art, some of the most influential movements of the XX century 😭 the art student in me is crying

[@EphemeralTao]

@@lzmunch More accurately, Duchamp and the DADAists were the OG shitposters.

[@inferiorinferno8859]

@I Said What I Said Whilst not crediting is bad, art itself gets inspired by different cultures all the time. It's not copying unless they are actually directly replacting the exact same work.

[@lucasmorin6855]

This is so spot on! The whole scenario in the Middle East felt very uncomfortable and underdeveloped.

[@slightlycrummy]

This is the review we all needed. These giant movie corporations need to know that their audiences want more than just "strong pretty cis het white girl smooch boy"

[@Ren-ls4yl]

It's funny you mention Sailor Moon as another pretty girl who's been fighting in skimpy outfits. I realise she's so much more progressive with her own personality, flaws and relationship dramas. Not to mention, a wonderful group of girl friends! No wonder Sailor Moon is such a cult icon wow

[@PatchesNjose]

I just don’t get why she hasn’t tried to go back to the island to confront her mother for lying to her her entire life.

[@harriyanna]

what has turned me off from wonder woman's character in general, is that she's too perfect for me, if that makes sense.

[@Teleflexx]

I agree....she's immortal....all powerful...she's literally disconnected from the human condition...and yet she identifies...as human.

[@satyr_9]

They are so invested in her being a compassionate Madonna that they frame it that she isn't fallible. This makes her a boring character, essentially a cardboard cutout. They think this makes her a "strong female character", but she lacks the complexity to be the character they need her to be to carry a franchise.

[@runawaypacman]

I completely agree I've only been able to tolerate wonder woman or superman in comedy shows like teen titans go or dc super hero girls or when they're both the villian like in the injustice game.

[@galactic85]

That doesn't have to be a problem though. Grant Morrison took Superman and went "what if I made this guy MORE powerful?" Then delivered what is widely considered to be one of the best superman comics ever made if not THE best. What made it successful is that even while he made superman powerful he grounded the series in emotional conflicts. Funeral in smallville is all about the death of Clark's father for example and the issue where lois lane gets super powers is basically just the story of a date between two Romantic partners. The question of perfectness isn't the problem in my opinion the problem is that a lot of writers don't seem to realize how they can use it to their advantage, and when they try to deliver emotionally resonant stories they wind up falling back on cliche. As this reviewer mentioned the whole story between diana and Steve is the little mermaid and it's the sort of conflict that has been used A LOT in fiction about women. If wonder woman is a feminist icon who's mission is to empower other women then have her navigate a conflict where she is forced to choose between two schools of feminist philosophy. The reason the first movie worked is because it used the character's idealism to its advantage. She doesnt understand the full complexity of the world she enters so when confronted with the full depth of man's cruelty to man it's a moment of reckoning. That's for me why the first movie worked.

[@nsalegit9482]

@@Teleflexx femme doctor Manhattan was supposed to be in season 2 of the watchmen show. Not your mainline family holiday feminist action film.

[@vietdam5185]

The delivery of that "Ma'am...... This is a Wendy's" is so perfect!! I'm on the floor! 😂

[@Mariolopez-lp9fs]

Also the final confrontation with Diana and Maxwell, felt extra lame to me because in the comics, Wonder Woman tried to resolve it somewhat peacefully but after realizing that he just would not give up she SNAPPED HIS NECK. That scene is iconic and they gave it to Superman in Man of Steel and just had Diana talk it out 😪

[@galactic85]

Honestly I'm fine that they went with the "talk it out" approach. A huge chunk of the audience for these movies is kids and it would be nice to show those kids that not all problems require violent solutions and that violence isnt always justified. Kids need good role models. IAlso, for me the primary appeal of superheroes was always that they showed up to SAVE lives rather than take them. Given how violent and nihilistic the world feels right now it's nice to not have yet another superhero film where the hero executes the villain in the name of 'justice.' I love good action and fight scenes as much as anyone else but for me superheroes are at their best when they just get to save a bunch of people.

[@nyikomaswanganyi5983]

@@galactic85 Teaching Kids those values is their parent's responsibility not filmmakers.

[@Flameclaw123]

You mentioned Michelle Pfeiffer from Batman Returns when talking about Barbara, but I couldn't help but think about Jamie Foxx's character from The Amazing Spider-Man 2 for Barbara's whole intro sequence. Both unpopular "dorky" characters that get pushed around by others at the office, and both forming a really immediate and unhealthy obsession with their superhero of choice. They even both have a superhero pick up the paper/documents they dropped in what I dubbed their meet cute scenes lol. If WW1984 is going to steal from other superhero movies, they could at least steal from good ones!

[@jakerockznoodles]

How dare you! TAS2 Was amazing! If you don't mind I now have the compulsion to buy lots of Sony products after watching it for some reason...

[@elplebeuchiha1996]

Minerva was WAAAY better than Electro or Riddler. [+]

[@khalilgiovanni]

You take away Steve and Pedro (I don’t remember his name in the movie) and it’s automatically better. Like, let Barbara be the main villain. There was no need for ole boy. And that Steve storyline held back Wonder Woman so much 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@khalilgiovanni]

@@discoskull the movie was more about Diana and Steve versus Wonder Woman and Cheetah. She’s literally her arch enemy and they treated her like an afterthought. So much time was wasted on showing Steve around and Pedro being a bad businessman and dad. Time that could have went into developing Barbara’s character, showing us what WW had been doing, or just developing their friendship. At this point, it’s kind of like where do you go from here. Because bringing back Barbara will call for an explanation that I don’t think they’d give. For a franchise that’s supposed to be about empowering women and young girls, this whole damn movie sure was about two men.

[@Val-8CH]

I completely thought that was what was gonna happen in the beginning. That there would be a clever bait and switch where we thought the big threat was him but it turns out to be her. And I actually didn't mind the Steve comeback. But considering the circumstances of his return I think it would have been way more compelling to have them not be intimate out of respect for the stranger's body. It would have heightened the tension and the tragedy of it all. How are we as viewers putting together a more interesting storyboard than the people who are being paid to make this? Who knows maybe it got pitched and the execs wouldn't go for it 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@khalilgiovanni]

@@discoskull also, Steve in another mans body, happily in his body and WW being fine with it just shows that they don’t actually know the source material. Like, you’re a writer. You can make up any god damn thing and that’s what you do? It’s a universe with super humans, demons, etc. so bringing back a dead guy so that he’s himself and not someone else wouldn’t be weird.

[@khalilgiovanni]

@@Val-8CH the reason I mind Steve coming back is because eventually she’s gonna have to get to the WW she was in BvS. How can she do that when she/they keep writing situations that hold her back. She regressed. Tremendously. So now, you have to figure out a situation where she gets to that BvS point and from the ending of this particular movie she has a long way to go.

[@Val-8CH]

@@khalilgiovanni I haven't watched B vs S so I'll take your word for it that you're making a fair point. Ultimately I wouldn't have chosen for Steve to return either if I was deciding the plot line. But people enjoyed the chemistry between the two actors and I can understand a studio wanting to capitalize on this. My point was merely that they still could have done the cash grab plot in a way that was interesting and deepened the character. But they chose to basically retread all the same beats and we didn't learn anything new or revelatory about Steve, Diana, or their relationship.

[@SassyandalwaysClassy]

I mean they had a meet cute and I was rooting for her and Barbara to become a couple. 😂

[@glipgloppapi9959]

LOWKEY THOUGH lol gal is so vibey with anybody on screen

[@maxalaintwo3578]

I thought they might but I was ok with them being platonic. If they were romantically involved it just woulda made things more cringe

[@ArgoBargo]

Me toooo

[@aarronobsidian5597]

Hey isn't that Taeleer Hendrix as your profile pic? Underrated pro wrestler in my opinion.

[@ipsilonia]

@@glipgloppapi9959 i don't know if gal is so vibey so much as we all just wanted to live vicariously through barbara during their lil meet cute

[@verycuteanimal301]

30:00 EXACTLY LOL. Like I don't know WHAT I'd want, seeing that Wonder Woman HAS to go to the U.S. in DC movies so the plot can actually... plot. But wow. Both with WW84 and WW (2017), I always think "GOD WHY CAN'T WE JUST STAY ON THEMISCYRA.... THIS IS 1495% MORE INTERESTING." Maybe we just need a wholly unrelated movie revolving around fantasy/Greek gods and an Amazonian island full of women. Because fuck, Themiscyra gave me everything I've ever wanted as a little girl loving fantasy. And god Robin Wright IS so fine

[@cprescod1768]

Been talking to some friends about the same thing. From the very first WW movie I wished they had spent more time in Themiscyra. Now with this one, I'm just wishing they just decide to do a whole movie about the Amazons. All the best scenes were on the island.

[@Billchu13]

I loved the beginning but the ending was unsatisfying. I am fine with a deus ex machina every once and a while, but when they need to fold the 6th dimension to fix things, I check out. Lasso of Truth works inconsistently in this movie, they could have established its powers early on, and not used it on Cheetah or Lord until the end.

[@undertaker9991]

Yeah it was mad cheesy.

[@Carabas72]

I like the concept of the ending. I'm a sucker of power of love endings. It just was poorly executed. And both villains just vanished after the end, we don't even find out what happens to either of them. The Lasso though, in over 75 years of comics, it has worked concistently precisely zero times.

[@Billchu13]

@@Carabas72 We could have had it be consistent within this one story. When wishful thinking is all it takes to save the day, I lose the sense of verisimilitude.

[@Carabas72]

@@Billchu13 That's what I meant when I said I liked the concept but not the execution. It didn't feel earned in the way the good examples of this sort of thing do.

[@Carabas72]

@peter When you connect to Lord, you indirectly are aslo connected to all the people the tech allowed him to connect with. By lassoing Lord, she's essentially hijcking his tech.

[@minakomann7933]

So my thoughts. Steve Trevor being actually alive ate up too much time in the movie and was the major problem of the movie and needed to be cut. This is probably the Ace in me because I feel like almost no one points this out, but yes, while it would be sad to lose the love of your life, there is much more to life than romantic love. The fact that Diana's depression isn't remotely linked to the loss of Themyscira, her mother, or her aunt is utterly baffling. (though not super because then you remember she didn't care for humanity all that much to begin with in the first movie!) It feels like Steve was supposed to be the symbol of her losing her link to humanity again because she didn't have her mother or her sister on Themyscira anymore and she also didn't have the friends she made in WWI. This might've been sold better if they had spent more time even on Diana talking about ETTA or any of the other people she went to Germany with in the first film instead of relegating them to photos that are never shown in the movie outside of the first scene where it leads to her being in the photo at Trevor ranch. (Was that his family's farm? If so why did she go there? What benefit could his parents derive from her working or living on the farm after he dies in the war? If she made, why?) Barbara being the old ass trope of the geek girl who wants to be the popular cheerleader is tired and boring and so far from her character. She can be jealous of Diana but still show hints of her later inhumanity or having a back bone in general to avoid the evil glow up trope. And that way you can also avoid the implication that if Barbara is getting Diana's powers she is getting Diana's inhumanity because lol why else would the monkey paw steal her kindness and goodness instead idk her intellect? The climax would have hit better if Eris was the reason for the stone. I appreciate because it's WW canon that we didn't kill Max as he is not an irredeemable person. However, I agree it just read like she was talking him down because she's on the floor the wind is blowing she's tearing and can't do anything. Idk how even the lasso got on his leg because they showed her fail to get him with it 2x. Diana comes from a history of many stories where she is surrounded by women. Not all of them have to be good or not antagonists but the conflict of the character is in how she handles trying to not kill people if they can be convinced and starting there as the solution to her issues with them. Idk if I agree Diana is unflawed, or if she is, that that is the problem. The character grows by what we put her through--for example Eye of the Gorgon she has a falling out with Athena because her employee's child is turned to stone by Medusa and that was just a test for her. Athena her mentor and patron goddess who she clearly loves and loves Diana (as she always chooses Diana as her preferred champion), does something reprehensible. How do you deal with that? How do you repair the relationship. The reason I love her character is because it's about all of her relationships (especially since they are mostly with other women as the focus). Idk how anyone at WB or Patty Jenkins could ignore that but she is part of the problem because it was missing in the first movie and it was worse here. At least because the first one starts on Themyscira we sort of get that but this one? Lol.

[@Billchu13]

Thanks for the shout out! This is an awesome community

[@margaritasalt]

"There's so many things that could be cool.. but aren't." the entire movie in a nutshell. your movie takes place in one of the most colorful, retro, rock, corporate aesthetic eras. the 80s has great music, a huge amount of pop culture nostalgia, and this.. is it? for me, this movie was a fail on every level except performances. i think every actor in the movie did a great job (gal and kristen included). barbara had so much potential in this franchise. if they had just introduced her as a friend and nothing more in this movie, given her time to form a relationship with diana that people cared about, before introducing cheetah, it would have worked so much better. the plot device of a wishing stone that you can turn into and then grant others wishes but then also grant your own at the same time because the wishing stone takes something from you when you make a wish is so convoluted and poorly constructed. even the framing device this movie used was terrible. "hey if you take a shortcut, you're not a winner. also, lying is bad." like you can get what the movie is trying to say, but the dialogue in this scene is so badly written for what the movie is about. pascal's kid randomly popping up throughout the movie to remind him he's there was so unnecessary. when pascal is remembering the whole reason he started making wishes in the first place was because of his kid and then said kid just comes wandering out of the bushes, it completely takes you out of the moment. the movie was just SO bad, i could write essays.

[@margaritasalt]

@222ckc yeah man its just crazy how it fails on SO many different levels lol dont get me started on the islamaphobia and the non-con.. it was so weird that steve was in a stranger's body the entire time and diana doesnt even really care lol

[@AloisWeimar]

Man, the south asian guy with dreads with a “mayan” grandma, like what?

[@MrBazBake]

I overall liked the movie (except for that really weird magical rape subplot), although the camp screamed at me and the running scenes were terrible. One thing that bothered me, though, is that Gal Gadot is paradoxically a better actress in Batman v Superman than she is in any other DC movie -- which means Zack Snyder directed her better in that movie than anyone else did. There's more life, fun, joy, rage, and frustration in that fifteen minute Doomsday fight scene than in the sum total of all of her other performances and you can see she's having a really good time playing the character. Somewhere along the line they decided she needed to be dour, regal, and imperious, so now she's a maudlin sad sack begging for the world to fix itself going through the motions. What's missing is Diana enjoying how good she is at her job, and since WW3 is coming down the pike already based on streaming and the Rottten Tomatoes score, they'll have a shot. But Patty Jenkins needs to give Diana that sense of fun and easy confidence that only Zack Snyder (maybe Justin Lin, it's been a while since I saw Fast and Furious 5 and 6) seems to be able to get out of her.

[@vaguelydeltarunethemedsocks]

"ma'am this is a Wendy's" pretty much perfectly describes my reaction to the ending monologue

[@kin1332]

I was really enjoying the movie but when Maxwell and then Steve came into the picture it kind of went downhill for me. I'm pretty disappointed as well. Not only was Steve's comeback completely unnecessary for me, and it took away from Diana's growth as a character, it felt like Barbara didnt get the proper development as a villain because of Maxwell's presence.

[@greynotchristian]

"is walking in heels a demigod thing?" and IN CHUNKY HEELS FOR THAT MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@chillin5703]

I feel like if they had made the movie more about the woman learning to move beyond her man, and to become her own person, then that would have worked. And the thing is that I feel like that is what they were _trying_ to go for, but because Diana doesn't feel like a person, and because they don't characterize her as changing over time, it doesn't work. Imagine if Diana had an intense internal conflict throughout the entire movie about the morality of what she did - first over the facts that a) that Steve (willingly) died and Diana lowkey is invalidating his sacrifice, but, possibly more importantly, that b) bringing him back came with violating the life of another man, who might have been someone else's Steve for all she knew (this, I assume, is how she would've best been able to understand the implications of her actions). Then, as she starts to lose her powers, she becomes even more conflicted, etc etc. Such a characterization would've explored a broader emotional range and really made her into a person. Also, why wasn't WW characterized as closer to her Snyder self? I haven't watched JL (lmao i ain't touching that), but since 1984 is closer to 2016/17/18 (approx when the movie seems to take place) than it is to, frickin, 1914-1919), wouldn't it make sense that she's _not_ exactly the same, and is infact inbetween? I don't know how Snyder characterized her, but from what I get from you, it _was_ a characterization. Writers should've realized that, once you take away the cute naivete and hopefulness that (adorably, I must admit) characterized WWI-era WW, they had no real character to lean back on. By 1984, it would make no sense for her to be that... silly. She's lived among the apes (humans) for too long, she knows we suck. She's mourning the loss of a person who she can't get over. American politics of the period... the literal development of an epidemic whose origin and method of spread is unknown but which is understood to be devastating.. Shouldn't she be a bit more cynical?

[@titanqueen13]

The one thing that annoyed me about the wishing thing is that it supposed everyone chose something selfish or greedy to wish for. What if someone wished for altruistic things like world peace or ending starvation? When the wishes had to be revoked that would all go away. They also supposed that everyone took their wish back in time. This concept was odd.

[@pythonjava6228]

ikr. It's so unrealistic that everyone would renounce their wish

[@calebarsenault382]

This movie would have been set in the middle of the aids epidemic, would no one wish for a cure or even to be healed?

[@psinno]

@@calebarsenault382 I don't remember aids/hiv being a big thing in 1984 but then again I was 5. It would have been quite early with about a dozen people a day dying in the US. Do They Know It's Christmas and the famine in Ethiopia were big but maybe that is more of a European thing.

[@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770]

I really disliked the sort of message they were doing about accepting the garbage world we're stuck with and that trying to improve things will only make things worse.

[@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770]

@@calebarsenault382 people dying of aids: "I wish to not die from this illness". Wonder Woman: "No, that's bad".

[@bicarbonat1]

Re: The Bodysnatchers 1984 - The kissing was bad enough, feeling little to nothing about the displacement of the real man was bad enough... But SEX? If they hadn't couched it as something ultimately okay, they could've delved a bit into how Diana has the capacity to behave a bit like the Greek gods - a very good addition to her brief moral wavering at the end of the first film (exacerbated by something to do with Steve, again). Because one thing's for sure - her father would've done the same thing.

[@brittonius2]

"And whoever chose that wig for her, they choose violence" i am weak lmao

[@bdm483]

During that very inspirational monologue, I was half expecting her to start singing 'Imagine' or something.

[@Artemis820]

I still could never wrap my head around the whole steve being in someone else's body thing. I mean what? I mean essentially Steve was taking over a random person's life and I remember thinking about how the whole wish thing works where u gain the wish but u have to give something up and I thought "oh soo the consequence would be that Steve is taking the life of an innocent person" but nah they said its Diana's power

[@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770]

Patty Jenkins and Geoff Johns should really lay off the weed. Lol.

[@leynarro]

“how about we give you an albino cheetah. is that representation?” LFNDKDJDKD this movie was so disappointing

[@cateye1344]

I was sighing in frustration when all the Amazons were tall and thin, I’ve seen plenty of plus size strong women. Why can’t we have some of that?

[@fossilfighters101]

+

[@moomel1099]

Agree! I want body diversity too

[@antonellamR2D2]

They live on a island, eating fish and fighting all day, that's impossible. But Cheetah could have been the black lady from the museum, a scientist that doesn't care about tight dress and is a beautiful big woman.

[@mmcat2863]

@@antonellamR2D2 cheetah is maybe not the best name, then. Cheetahs are kinda the skimpiest cats 😅

[@wisdommanari6701]

So...its a flaw in the mythology, but the amazons would have been a Greek idealized verson of beauty. That being said there absolutely should have been more ya know people of all body times in the movie especially in the museum. BUT I absolutely get what you are saying. Its something that bothers me whenever insee a skinny Amanda Waller in live actions.

[@masonallen3961]

What you said reminded me of something? Before the film was released I saw that Robin Wright and Connie Nielsen were returning and I naively thought they would have big roles in WW84. If Chris Pine can come back from the dead why not Robin Wright. But they only appeared for a few minutes at the beginning of the movie which makes you yearn for what could've been. Instead of three awesome amazonians (four if they decided to introduce Wonder Woman's long lost black twin sister Nubia) fighting evil together it's just Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor (which we've already seen).

[@madhatt3r93]

"She is still doing super heroine..." Wait WHAT?! They do hard drugs in these movies?! "...things." Oh.

[@MRuby-qb9bd]

OOOOOOOooo...ohhhh 👁👄👁

[@bloopsagain]

I mean... I heard this and was reminded of Detox’ commercial so you aren’t alone

[@bookNerd151]

1) ❤️ this & your Birds of prey video! 2) longtime WW stan & critic here. You are bang on in so many ways. Modern WW depictions are often weighed down with 80 years of contradictory and nonsensical comic character representation. One of Diana’s ‘superpowers’ has always been her goddess-like beauty, and I wish creators would interpret this more loosely. Or that they’d pick a competent actress (a la Margot Robbie) who just happens to be stupid hot. I see the underlying issue as similar to, well, Superman. Is the character inherently awful? No, but there is a shit ton of baggage (including the whole white savior thing). And D.C. has been bungling both characters. They could have instead included Diana’s mom switching places with her, Diana getting involved with various civil rights movements, Diana’s black sister Nubia challenging her for the title of WW, Diana working as a nurse, Diana giving up her powers and then realizing their value...all actual comic book storylines. Heck, they could have delved into Diana’s experience of BDSM with a sorority (and with Themysciran social practices). Maybe not the most marketable - but better than WW 1984. What I mean to say is - she’s not a lost cause. She’s not ~bad~, she’s just being drawn that way by the film industry 😒 3) I get the preference for Sailor Moon, or Xena, or Birds of Prey. But really it’s Wonder Woman that (as they say) walked so all these more recent heroines could run. No one was telling (mainstream) stories about strong, peace-seeking, kick-ass, wise heroines until William Marston started publishing Wonder Woman. Side note - can we get an NC-17 tv series about all the BDSM stuff the Amazons casually did in the earliest comics? (fun fact: that’s one of the OG purposes of their gauntlets) 4) I get the impression Patty Jenkins & co are trying to give female audiences what they think we want. Pretty outfits, cute boyfriends, always perfect hair/makeup (and the ability to walk in high heels, UGH). As you note, Birds of Prey complicates everything and it’s fucking glorious (and hey, we can have fun outfits without sacrificing devotion to the greater good....and the perfect breakfast sandwich) 5) you are amazing, thank you for being entertaining and inspiring

[@langleymneely]

You have articulated my own thoughts on the film so succinctly and flawlessly! Between the great opening sequence on Themiscyra, the whole Asteria eagle battle armor thing and a complete lack of non cheesy action I keep rewriting things in my head. When this films setting was announced there was hinting at a cold war/spy element which made the 84 setting feel necessary (it wasn’t frankly) and had me thinking “oh THATs how you get away with her being Wonder Woman in 84 and no one in the public knowing who she was!” I thought Diana being a pseudo Indiana Jones for the US government would be a great way to start the film. Imagine her longing for her mother and people so much that she’s searching for relics that are important to her people in the hopes of one day returning home. If only she could find Asteria after all this time maybe she would be allowed back home!? In doing this she comes across the Golden Eagle armor but no trace of Asteria, the woman she hoped to find. If we must keep that stupid wish stone make it another relic being hoarded along with the armor & the actual idol that gave Cheetah her power from the comics. Diana brings these things back to Washington to be studied after a kick ass action sequence of traversing ruins and fighting the people keeping them hidden. She gives the stone & idol to her already established friend Barbara that IS romantically attracted to Diana but doesn’t say so because its the 80s. I would tie Barbaras frustration with Diana to the idea that trying to take the stone away and keep people from knowing about it will damage her career and reputation within the scientific & anthropological community. Actually give her growing reasons to start resenting Diana that arent just about jealousy “cuz shes so hot”! I wont drone on but really my ultimate point is the entire film & its narrative choices are baffling to me! There were so many better plots to explore and better ways of tackling this particular story if they were that determined to stick with it.

[@AJMS10]

One thing you seem to be forgetting is that Melissa Benoist who plays Kara is a top tier actress who can do anything, whereas Gal Gadot is a Model who somehow got a great acting gig.

[@frufrujaben]

"It's bad because none of the weirdness feels earned" thank you I was looking for words to express that feeling (especially about the final act)

[@valaur3]

I really feel like she should have wished for “someone who can understand her” because her conflict is being too unattached from humanity (also uses gadots range) and it brings back her coach, and they get to have all their fish out of water 80s scenes. Barbara and her have their meet cute, then when Barbara starts getting freaked out by abilities she confides in Diana and then Diana and her Amazonian coach start training Barbara, and they work together to find out more about the stone. This gives way more development to Kristen Wiggs character and also shows that even humans are able to understand Diana. We watch as Barbara loses her touch with reality and this makes Diana cherish her warmth even more. Then when Barbara betrays her it really has some emotional weight, and when Diana uses her understanding and connection to Barbara to turn her back it means something, she gives up her coach because she understands that she can have true deep understanding and relationships with humans like with Barbara, then after Barbara is brought back to warmth and humanity then they together inspire everyone to give up their wishes for reality.

[@karawild1433]

Great video. Really liked your point about wishing that Diana had longed for her mother at some point during the movie. I wondered why she was so focused on Steve instead of her aunt or her mother. It would have made a lot of sense to try to bring them back given how prominent they were in the beginning.

[@nickowens1248]

"Paler than a Michelangelo poster" lolol best line ever

[@Carabas72]

I'm not sure I get the reference. Is it about marble statues?

[@swanpride]

@@Carabas72 Michelangelo was also a painter...his versions of Christian motives are (as it is usual for that time) very white, never mind the middle-eastern setting of most of those stories. Hell, they are pretty white even compared to Italians.

[@moomel1099]

I felt they brought Steve in to have her eventually reject him. Like we knew it was coming. She could have come to that realisations through her friendship with Barbara. They needed a man, to tell woman we don’t need a man.

[@thecourrrr]

When you started with Diana having to give up her powers to be with chris pine i knew this was going to be a trip. Havent we moved pass the little mermaid discord on women having to give up a big part of who they are to be with a man....God how many men are running this stories

[@greggoodman4335]

In the film's defense, it makes sense that Diana has limited relationships with others. She doesn't age like regular humans, and eventually this lack of aging would cause some difficulties in maintaining those friendships/romantic relationships/etc when people started wondering why the hell she ain't getting older like everyone else; plus, like Superman, she has to protect her alter ego and those she is closest to (in her case...coworkers??? :( ) from the dangers of her other life. So, almost by necessity, she needs to be somewhat of a loner. This would partially explain her willingness to work with the JL as they become the surrogate friends/family that she sacrificed when she left Themyscira to protect the world, and are the only people who would understand the challenges of navigating the world as person/superhero. In fact, just about all the JL are loners, to an extent. Aww, the JL is just a big ol' Lonely Hearts Club. I think Steve represents the only person outside of Themyscira (with the possible except of Etta - but I'm not sure if Diana ever disclosed her identity to Etta in the DCEU) who Diana could be her true, complete self with - Diana AND WW, not just WW. He's the one person who makes her feel she isn't alone, but to be the hero that the world needs she has to sacrifice that personal desire. Personally, I don't feel it's problematic to have that idea embodied by her relationship with a man (personal love vs the adoration of the public - same as Superman and his relationship with Lois), although I'm wondering why her "exile" from Themyscira seems so absolute (especially considering we saw the Amazons in JL, whose events are yet to come in this timeline), and why she can't maintain those relationship a little more closely. She does still have a "family" and a whole ass community out there. I do agree that the film's biggest problem may be the glut of themes (many pretty interesting, though), and the sloppy way they were resolved(?). Rescinding all the wishes seems both too convenient a resolution and too difficult/impossible a task, and I'm not sure the film did enough to convince us that Diana's monologue would have been so thoroughly convincing. I could have done with a little more Barbara and Barbara/Diana. And the action scenes were inferior to what we've seen from WW in BvS, JL, and WW1. However, I think I understand the 80s setting a little more now, considering the themes of want, excess, success, and greed (and what better decade to represent the whole "Greed is Good" theme?). And the ideas of not taking shortcuts/there's no such thing as a free meal/sacrfice is necessary are important - and not always respected in Comic Book films. I echo the sentiments of some here who thought it somewhat "strange" Diana and Steve were having sex using this unnamed(?) guy's body with no hesitations. Why was it even necessary to have Steve possess someone's body when hundreds of nukes were seemingly wished into existence? Couldn't Steve have just been materialized from nothing? Ok, can't go down this rabbit hole...

[@devonmunn5728]

Note: I haven't actually seen the movie but since i don't have any investment in DC/Marvel stuff i don't mind watching spoilery reviews for DC/Marvel movies I did watch Chris Stuckmann's review on that and when he mentioned it that was the first thing that came to mind. I remember that same discourse around the book Every Day by David Levithan a few years ago cause the plot is about a soul named A that possesses a person each day and develops a relationship with a girl

[@walterobrien8045]

This movie really made me grateful for they way social media shows the perspectives of other people since I’m fully a liberal person but I’m also a white cis dude and a moron so the racial and gender issues of the story were somewhat lost on me until I went on tumblr and I was like “oh...oh fuck”

[@leonis5664]

i just want to point out that Pedro Pascal is white, he said himself on twitter.

[@MrBazBake]

I'm trying to find it but can't. He's a native-born Chilean and could be a white Hispanic, but I haven't seen anything else other than that.

[@leonis5664]

@@MrBazBake mobile.twitter.com/PedroPascal1/status/980204204319899649 here's the twitter. Yes, he is born chilean. he is a white Latino man. His family has Spaniard ancestry. And hispanic just mean someone who speaks spanish btw.

[@JaiProdz]

People also in 2017 would call Gal Gadot a woc...very weird recurrence lol tht keeps popping up in WW films. Her family is literally European.

[@mmcat2863]

@@JaiProdz she’s Israeli and she isn’t blonde, that should be enough, shouldn’t it? 😂

[@Carabas72]

I don't think that in most of the world, Hispanic is it's own thing seperate from white. It certainly came as a bit of a shock to Antonia Banderas when he got to America that he wasn't considered white.

[@Psychwriteify]

Not going to lie I had hopes of her and Minerva developing a meaningful relationship that would form the core of the movie. I would have loved for that to be a gay relationship...but I didn't have serious hope for that.

[@GoonyGoogles]

That Diana monologue at the end was so wack. I felt nothing when she learns to fly. They dragged out the invisible jet scene. I do believe that they literally brought her down to our level when she is a literal demigod. Meh is right.

[@lucasmorin6855]

Also omg I was so mad about Steve's presence in the first film, so the fact that they brought him back and made her so hung up on him...🙄🙄🙄 Whatever, everyone loved seeing Chris Pine wear a Fanny pack I guess. I think I missed that scene anyway because I was bored with the introduction of a dress up montage.

[@Greystorm1619]

This is my first video of yours I’ve watched, and I love how funny and knowledgeable and nuanced your takes are. It’s especially refreshing and gratifying coming from a fellow woman of color. Respect and represent✌🏾

[@mollylynch918]

Thank you so much for this. I'll be honest, I watched the movie on Xmas and I enjoyed it, there were things I wasn't a fan of, but nothing that really ruined the movie for me. Then I went online... I saw how much everyone hated it but a lot of what I saw of people's critiques were very different from yours. I saw a lot of misogyny disguised as criticism and exaggerating that it's the worst movie ever, so it turned me off. But I've been trying to force myself to read/watch more of people's opinions about the film because I thought maybe I was in my own bubble. After watching your video, I definitely see that I was more distracted by the symbolism and the fact that I just love Wonder Woman, that I wasn't thinking critically about all of the problems in the film. I agree with all the points you made. I think the amount of potential that was there to do something great has led to strong disappointment from fans. For me, my favorite moment in the film was during the fight in the white house, when Diana is on the ground, not getting up, telling Barbara that it's costing her humanity to be this strong and then Barbara asks what it's costing Diana, the next shot of her face, I though Gal actually did a decent job conveying that emotion without dialogue there. But those moments should be throughout the entire film. I don't Gal is a bad actress per se, but I think she has to be pushed to perform, otherwise, she just coasts on her beauty, consciously or not. There were more emotional moments in the first movie that felt genuine from her. I think a huge part of the problem is that there isn't enough representation behind the scenes to make sure that what representation we do get, is good, complex, and genuine. The powers that be need to held accountable just as much for not hiring black, poc, and indigenous writers, directors, producers as they are for not casting black, POC, and indigenous actors. As you said, there is so much material to pull from for Wonder Woman that it shows they did a poor job at making her a complex, flawed hero, rather than a symbol. Sorry for rambling lol Again, thank you for this video!

[@zekielthomas3355]

Absolutely agree. Thank you for putting words to it. Also I LOVE your ending music - it’s really soothing and pleasant to listen to 🥰

[@emmaparadis2055]

When you were talking about the movie’s weirdness the phrase that came to my mind was “unintentionally incoherent”

[@nickjoy6389]

I honestly wanted Barbra and Diana to be a lesbian couple, I felt the chemistry 😭

[@rashellebossou7978]

thought i was the only who saw it omg

[@nickjoy6389]

@@rashellebossou7978 YESSSS! I was like 👀 lesbians? Lesbianism? WLW!? 👀👀

[@rhymebeat1142]

I would have loved that because 1) Diana did show mercy to Barbara even while beating the crap out of her and 2) it would show she actually took Steve's words to heart about moving on. Just not with another man.

[@undertaker9991]

What chemistry? They just chatted once. Barbara just simply admired her. Admiration is the farthest thing from understanding something. It was on a superficial level. That was kinda the whole point.

[@nickjoy6389]

@@undertaker9991 it’s more so what I wanted than what I saw, I saw more chemistry between their one chat, and I wish they made the entire movie with them two. I didn’t need Steve in this movie... at all 😭 love him but like it’s done. The wishing stone aspect and pedros performance was so corny and cheesy I needed it erased to just focus on a WW and cheetah lovers turned enemies.

[@ajraven5145]

Considering how Patty Jenkins co-wrote Wonder Woman 1984... full of issues related to consent, the Middle East, PoC (to name a few)... I'm kind of worried about what might actually be going on in her mind in real-life.

[@5TailFox]

One gripe I have with the movie is how the ultimate victory at the end could literally be undone by any random person. Anybody, you name it. If the ultimate fate of humanity depends on everyone renouncing what they wished for, what happens if they have a person like *Me* who, considering what it is that I'd wish for, I would never give it up? Not even if it meant sacrificing all the lives on this planet. What do you do then? Seems as though you're leaving way too much to chance.

[@hopeweiss9549]

how did you feel about the Linda Carter cameo in the after-credits scene?

[@minaondrums]

The kid-gloves-off-rant between about 25-30 mins is THE BEST! Say what you feel Melina! 💖💖💖

[@theryaninwinter]

Apart from a few runs like Greg Rucka's, Gail Simone's, and George Perez's, so many Wonder Woman takes are insidiously misogynist. Brian Azzarello's comes to mind, I especially hate how because of him Diana is a daughter of Zeus now and not a creation of the Greek goddesses. I cannot, cannot believe they got Geoff Johns to co-write the screenplay, the man is incapable of writing women. Phew, rant over. Alan Moore's Promethea is my idea of the Wonder Woman we deserve.

[@mmcat2863]

Dunno if we deserve Alan Moore, but I will check Promethea out

[@scofah]

Thank you for not having music behind your essays. A few beeps or whatever you were referring to at the end, I don't care. The people who string all that music underneath their essays are a turn off and make them very hard to listen to. You are a pleasure and a delight. Your production is great. I really enjoyed this perspective on WW 1984. Thanks.

[@tommyverse]

This review is perfection! Besides, loved the Xena and Sailor Moon references, two of my favorite shows.

[@maadwest]

Such a great review 💯 so satisfying to watch!! I’ve watched so many reviews searching for these points. This is the one WB needs to see

[@Larissa-zt6nr]

Honestly the same criticizims you have here i had in the first one, specially about steve, the only moments she isnt being lead around by him is when shes fighting, its steve steve steve the whole movie

[@wisdommanari6701]

Because... She has no way to navigate the world without him. She is the one that leads the charge of the trench, she is the one that takes major action to liberate the town she's is the one that drives the plot Steve is basically a plot device that allows her to move towards her own objectives.... But yeah I hate that they banged in the first movie

[@hippityhoppityilikemypriva4467]

I am so dang happy this came up in my recs I finally watched the movie last night and i was so excited to see your take!!

[@nas7416]

Unrelated but just wondering if Lovecraft Country might be one of the two videos that you’re working on because I don’t think I heard you follow up on that yet.

[@kmakumane258]

I'm hoping to get a video on The good lord bird

[@iam2ku4u]

I love your videos and how you truly explore different perspectives in detail. Keep being awesome!

[@depressedtv]

this review is freaking spot on with every point

[@gamewithbritt]

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. But I also agree with a lot of your points. I wish the emotional weight wasn't on Diana's relationship to Steve. I like Steve, but his send off in the first movie was perfect. The movie could have focused on Diana's budding friendship with Barbara or her longing to go back home. Presumably the older woman in the photo was Etta Candy who would have had a longer relationship with Diana. Why isn't she mourning Etta? There's even that short bit about Astoria being out in the world and the fact Diana goes to look for her means a small part of her is missing her home. I guess it's frustrating that Diana isn't allowed friends/relationships outside of Steve. If/when there's another film, I hope Diana has allowed more people in her life. I would love to see her interact with other people.

[@julkaczaps1307]

I can believe in many things but there is no way that everybody would renounce their wishes. I'm sorry. If I wished for my family to be happy or a billion dollars no random woman would convince me to take it back.

[@therotryzit]

A large part as to why producers are getting away with it, is compared to other media live action movies are always seem to be regarded as "better art" than other art forms (fans of 2D animation can sing dozens of songs about that, but it applies to other as well. Whereas more obscure media can and has evolved in regards to meaningful representation, big blockbuster live-action movies have move at a more glacial pase than others.