Wood ash : concrete

[@CalThompson-oj2kk]

Cool video. A couple problems could have led to the weak result. First, you didn't strain out the contaminants. Those will break down smaller and weaken your bonds. Second, you didn't dry the ash balls. They went into the fire way too wet. Let them dry for a night, and then roast them for a while to get rid of the remaining moisture before fully heating them. Third, you didn't get the balls hot enough to complete the chemical reaction. This was probably a combination of the moisture and heating in a pot that kept the temp too low. If the balls are dry, you can just put them directly on the coals. Fourth, you didn't fully slake them. They should create an exothermic reaction and boil the water when you dissolve them.

[@xeviocane]

Ok thanks for that….!!!!!

[@gaurdians1]

To add to this, never use a lid on a pot if your goal is to cook off moisture... The whole point of a lidded pot is to retain moisture. The heated water vapor will just condense on the lid and drip back into the pot. The high walls of the that pot are also working against you. You want maximum heat and airflow over your ash balls. The more shallow the pot, the better. Or just forgo the pot entirely.. It's not as though the balls are going to catch fire and burn up, lol. They've already failed to burn once, afterall.

[@johnmurray7097]

I think the issue you're having is they aren't firing hot enough, the only discernable difference I've seen that may be occurring between your videos and others is they got their pellets orange-hot in direct fire, your pellets may not be reaching the same temperature inside the pot and so not achieving the internal chemical changes all the way. Also this video is not clickbait, it's extremely educational to see honest attempts not give the desired results - as this is what 99% of us making our attempts are going end up with on our first attempts as well, so no need to be rude in the comments people. Somebodies gotta upload stuff about self reliance, the more the better.

[@xeviocane]

I really appreciate this comment. And yes I came to the same conclusion so I said Alyssa gave me another video to do once I can build me a rocket forge cute like I want to design. Also, you don’t succeed if you do not fail. And I looked at it added another point of you instead of making concrete. At least I made something that you could seal something in and then break it out later ha ha ha ha ha more like a paste, mortar to hide stuff.

[@johnmurray7097]

@djapotomous1531 search youtube for "Primitive technology wood ash cement fired brick hut", and "Corporals Corner How to Make Roman Concrete" there's others too, but I liked theirs a lot. Primitive Technology is one of the best content creators period. He doesn't talk, so turn on subtitles because he details what he's doing that way.

[@dawncawthra3519]

​@@djapotomous1531 look up primitive cement, it'll pop up a few good vids

[@killgazmotron]

Ash is so useful. No one would think it but there are so many applications. You can use it in the production of black powder, you can use it to make soap, concrete, and you can use it too make pottery glaze, just to name a few.

[@xeviocane]

I totally agree with you it’s a lot more useful than most people think

[@BigCroca]

For black powder is there a way other than piss method and i guess for lye in electrolysis method for chlorates?

[@killgazmotron]

@@BigCroca the piss mothod is just about the ammonia. So.... well you could go get anything else with sufficient amounts of ammonia i would suppose.

[@killgazmotron]

The ammonia has some sort of reaction with the calcium compounds in the ash i think? im not positive. It makes the reactions more thorough is what i gather. but i do recall it being about the ammonia in urine, so naturally i would assume anything with ammonia would be a safe replacement.

[@TheRojo387]

@@killgazmotron Do you mean that it forms calcium amide?

[@mnhusin509]

well wood ash mainly contain calcium carbonate, you fire it and become quick lime basically and water it become slaked lime and it pretty ordinary binder before cement

[@xeviocane]

Exactly

[@Dardomor]

Could it be that indeed you didn't cure the ash hot enough, with the re-firing? (Still to much calcium carbonate) But also perhaps the calcium content is perhaps too high in general? I think I've seen someone on KZbin wash the cured ash before using it to make bricks from it, which dissolves part of the calcium oxides in the water. (I don't remember which video, I watched quite a lot as I'm looking into making it myself 😅) Not sure if it's helpful, I'm just thinking out loud if the ratios are maybe off.

[@deanreynolds3709]

This gives me something to experiment with. I wanna make a cabin in the woods and i want to do an actual foundation

[@xeviocane]

I mean, if you’re able to successfully produce that much go ahead, but you would have to have the right gear to be able to do it and get it to not fall apart like it did for me, since I did not heat it to the correct temperatures

[@deanreynolds3709]

@@xeviocane yeah I'll have to play around with the formula, I plan on adding crushed seashell ash to the mix with a mild agrigate

[@evanortwine6966]

That first one is good slag. Sky is the limit from there .

[@xeviocane]

Exactly. You don’t fail in life you only learn what not to do.

[@tiara3477]

And how about adding a but of limestone? An alternative source of limestone is seashells. Bake the seashells until they crumble and then add that to your wood ash. Also ...... using sea water helps too. A little Roman technology there.

[@xeviocane]

That would be an excellent way of making it. If you’re close to the ocean I can also do that for another video when I finally get my official kiln made.

[@deanreynolds3709]

Crushed seashell ash made roman concrete self healing sorta, works great if you live near the ocean

[@TheEnigmaticmuse]

​@@deanreynolds3709you can make salt water. Distilled water, 3.5% salt (must be a high mineral salt). So it would be kind of pricey to make but doable.

[@evanortwine6966]

I'm making my own with a little help from home Depot. Without the heat. Only for a 16 by 20 floor to survive the winter. I amazed by how durable clay is.

[@tttm99]

Thanks for adding in the word on sulphur. Totally forgot about that...

[@peppecurreri]

Hi you gonna need to know a little basics on how to make geopolymers. For basic Play-Doh solution need to find light brown ash for better result, also if they can have residual carbon need to filter it. Better results whit f thype fly ash "thermal burner" but if you can't find at good price try pine family wood ash the ash is 1% of dried wood so do your calculations. For 50 g of ash need 30 g of water glass, use gloves when it become like Play-Doh apply on mold or where you need. If you want more balanced solution need to acid activate water Glass solution so can make a decoction of fig whit all parts of flant including leaves wood or even the skin of fruit you eat to boiling point on start and low flame for like 2 h and mix this juice whit wt 24 h befor using it. Or can make solution whit NaOH: 9,1g wg; 1,7g NaOH, 2,5g water. Hope you can tell me what ash you are using also good results whit mix of tobacco ash and weed ofc😂

[@JimmyCapricorn77]

Wood ash concrete is cool. However, you’d need an entire burnt down forests ashes actually make a structure out of it.

[@xeviocane]

I would use this to patch stuff up….

[@kevinemery1177]

Ok campers lets burn 40 minutes of propane for a couple little balls of concrete

[@xeviocane]

Hahahahhaha

[@evanortwine6966]

I'm using some seriously strong clay and throwing quick Crete on top mixing a little sand and dirt on to p. I live in the swamp land, hope this works. I threw quick Crete on top to try to strengthen and dry it better

[@xeviocane]

Never know

[@LANMAR-m5w]

Super 👍

[@jameswalker4977]

I think you're probably not making concrete as much as your making cement or grout, I believe you need to add some sort of aggregate for it to be concrete

[@correctpolitically4784]

The next question is what if all you have is pine ? Vast tracts of land are covered in only pine because of reforestation efforts and the lumber industry. The real trick is to figure out how to make the pine work.

[@xeviocane]

Yes i know…. That’s why I said worst case scenario can be used for internal plaster style mixture to sell in your holes for your homemade houses.

[@TemplarX2]

You didn't heat your ash balls probably. Use bricks to surround it as bricks retains temperature better.

[@xeviocane]

Thank you for the information, I will try that next time I attempt this

[@Kyle-sg4rm]

Maybe if you first remove the Potassium/Sodium carbonate from the ashes, the result will be better? Also, when making the 'clinker' from the ash putty/playdough substance, results could be better if you can heat it much hotter (like commercial clinker). And some plants, grasses in particular, have higher amounts of Silica and Alumina than other plants - so grasses (including Sorghum, etc) may be a better starting material. What your aiming for is a form of Calcium aluminosilicate. Extracting more pure Silica and Alumina from ashes using Sodium hydroxide, is another potential option. Like making 'water-glass'. Then filter out Calcium carbonate, etc, from the solution and precipitate Silica as Silicic acid by adding Acetic acid. Filter and set aside Silicic acid. You would then have Sodium acetate and Aluminium acetate in the remaining liquid. Dry this and then heat it to drive off Acetone, leaving Sodium oxide and Aluminium oxide. Add water (Sodium oxide becomes Sodium hydroxide) and filter out the insoluble Aluminium oxide. You should then have somewhat pure, Silica and Alumina, extracted from plant ashes. Add some Calcium (ideally Calcium hydroxide) and make into balls/bricks and heat to a high temperature to make clinker. Cool. Crush into powder and use as you would portland cement. It should be able to set underwater. By preparing it that way - you can control the ratio of Silica, Alumina and Lime, which could yield better cement with better properties. With this in mind, certain plants might already have a Silica, Alumina, Lime ratio, which is closer to what you what. Higher Silica and Alumina and Lower Calcium. Most plants are mostly Calcium in their mineral ratio... So it would take a bit of research, trial and error. Good fun!

[@xeviocane]

Ok thanks for the help!!! I appreciate it….

[@Kyle-sg4rm]

​@@xeviocane Allgood - Thanks for getting this kind of thing out in the open air for people to try themselves, ponder and discuss. I should add, there is actually a way to produce portland cement by hydrothermal synthesis, which is fairly easy. Moderate temperature - somewhere around 350 Celsius. And no additional pressure - Just the pressure from the steam which is produced by heating. All it contains, is; Water + forms of Silica, Aluminium and Calcium. It's not far beyond standard pressure cooker pressure/temp rating and an autoclave would work. But I wonder if there is a more 'homebaked' option for the vessel... If you think of an alternative, please let me know! I wonder if certain plant ashes (with alkali removed) might also work in the hydrothermal process? If so, that would be a very simple and convenient way to make portland cement. This may seem like boring stuff - but I think people might be underestimating how important it is. Something which is taken for granted - much like electrical lighting, or the electrical supply itself.

[@TheRojo387]

@@Kyle-sg4rm The main problem with finding good insulation, for instance for a concrete bunker or a j-tube stove, is that the best thermal insulators are gases. Very few solids even come close, and those that do are very porous and have those pores perhaps occupied only by vacuum. So could insulation be made better by reflective media? Aluminium and zinc make an alloy so reflective it reflects heat. While concrete ABSORBS heat.

[@eirikmurito]

Cool

[@xeviocane]

Ty

[@xeviocane]

OK guys things are about to collapse a lot worse than they already are if you want to learn how to survive you need to subscribe. I cannot teach you everything but I can teach you the basics that will give you the upper advantage

[@TheGrmany69]

So this is like substituting the sodium in Roman concrete.

[@xeviocane]

Yes

[@evanortwine6966]

I'm curious what the heat is doing?

[@jeroro4197]

Thanks

[@xeviocane]

Just remember, you have to cook it at extremely high temperatures in order to make it property here to itself. I did not do it at high enough temperatures.

[@seanpelletier]

What wood would you recommend for a canadian

[@xeviocane]

The hardest hardwood u can find

[@nataliegist2014]

Can you reuse the material that failed by adding more ash?

[@xeviocane]

Do you know what, I have not tried that. When I do end up making some more I will try and see and then I will tag you… thanks for the tip!!!!

[@TheRojo387]

Slake is the word you were looking for.

[@xeviocane]

I had a brain fart!! Hahahahah

[@TheRojo387]

@@xeviocane What's the Mohs hardness of that material?

[@xeviocane]

Results are uploaded to this mixture….

[@AhrayahLaban]

By any chance is bamboo hard enough to use instead of trees?

[@xeviocane]

It better depending upon what ur doing….

[@AnderEvermore]

Added benefit of bamboo is that it will be able to be used a s reinforcement too like steel in concrete if you poured it onto a framework.

[@WabuhWabuh]

you forgot to add clay

[@1jjadds]

Where is the second video on the brick that you made did it work or din.t

[@xeviocane]

I did not make that video yet every time I try to make it it still comes out with the same results so I need to get the fire hotter

[@1jjadds]

ok . why i ask cause i did it one time an din.t work for me put i put cement on it i was try only ashes you see im intereste on it to see how much heat it can handle so i was drying to do like an oven thing to see if it sheilds the heat stuff like that an other experiment cause if u see wn the charcaol is on the ashes holds the heat wn its cover an thats what intereste me . never mind if i don.t make sense . put i like your work.

[@xeviocane]

Thanks I appreciate it. I’m planning on building myself a Forge that sucks oxygen and so I do not have to add the air myself so that I don’t have to worry about it the heat, and then maybe will increase the heat enough to accomplish what I want to accomplish.

[@regentmad1037]

dude didn't have 2 sticks?

[@xeviocane]

Nope i had swords…… hahaahaha🤣🤣

[@regentmad1037]

@@xeviocane well i suppose... in a pinch O.o

[@regentmad1037]

@@xeviocane only video i've seen so far. you master it?

[@owenduck]

So no finished product apart from a failed Previous brick? I'm not convinced that it worked. You need a much hotter fire. U can't reach the right temps without a natural draft furnace.

[@xeviocane]

I really appreciate the comment. Thanks for replying. But you saw the finished product., With the exception of that I did not have the right ratio so that it failed. I have not had a chance to do another concrete but I appreciate you telling me to make a hotter fire so I will stick my next one directly into the fire to see if there is a change in the results… I am planning on doing another video but I just have not had a chance yet to do that

[@owenduck]

@@xeviocane primitive technology used ash collected from a brick firing kiln after firing bricks ( much higher temp), then made the ash into pellets and fired them again at brick firing temperature. The finished product went very hard and was used as brick morter.

[@Kyle-sg4rm]

​@@owenduck The ash you start with doesn't need to have been heated to a high temperature. It's just better if it's whiter ash, as opposed to grey ash, which likely has more charcoal remaining. Well burnt is what you want. And yes, the clinker should be heated to a high temperature - I can't remember how hot the minimum is, but you should aim for commercial clinker production temps. And the powdered clinker (the final dry cement mix), when mixed with water, should be able to set underwater. The primitive technology info did not cover that part. He put them underwater, but didn't set them underwater. - It has alot to do with the ratio of Silica, Alumina and Calcium. I think alot of wood ashes are too high in Calcium to produce anything with the properties of portland cement. Also, initially removing the Sodium/Potassium carbonate from the ashes could make a big difference. See my other comment for more info. And let me know if you know of other info on this stuff. I'm always researching it and would appreciate helpful links.

[@dontknowdontcare2531]

did it work or not? why end on a cliffhanger with no follow up

[@xeviocane]

In reality, I actually did finish the concrete, but because it deteriorated in the water is not where the of being used as normal concrete. I did not cook it at high enough temperatures so I have to do it again. I just don’t have the proper device built yet to get it to high enough temperatures. I will do the video over again once I can get that built.

[@xeviocane]

Right now, the concrete mixture that you saw would be good more for like temporary seals that you need to easily break into some more like a plaster. That can be used for indoor purposes only.

[@dontknowdontcare2531]

@@xeviocane was looking for an easy way to make it work, but it seems like you do actually need a kiln to reach temperature high enough and sustain it for long enough (900 C for 6 hours, give or take)

[@xeviocane]

Yeah, that’s my next plan is to build me a kiln to reach higher temperatures … but you don’t have to do it for that long from what I know you just needed to reach a certain temperature in till it’s glowing red….

[@armorclasshero2103]

This is plaster not cement or concrete. Wood ash is not fly ash.

[@xeviocane]

Yes, I would agree that this ended up being more like a stronger version of plaster, which is still a win, but if you do it correctly will be as hard as concrete, but I did not do it correctly. That will be the next video once I can build me a proper forge.

[@shanemiller6947]

Bud your far from doing this the right way good try thow don't use the bucket trow them in the fire get them out the next day and you can use any kind of wood ash doesn't really matter on the part be doing this for years now made lots of things as well good try maybe next time try it again

[@xeviocane]

Thanks for the tip. I will try that on my next video because I want to build me a Ford so I can get the fire hotter. And I will use this tip next time.

[@VCX3WSG]

My 2 inch balls didn’t cure what should I do to my other balls?

[@xeviocane]

What do you mean by curing because when you cook it and then re-cook it again until it’s glowing white and then you mix it in with your sand then you’re making it into whatever you need to unless you’re trying to make concrete balls???

[@boltholeonabudget6526]

So you didn't actually make concrete?

[@xeviocane]

In reality, I actually made a mortar paste that will work, but that cannot get wet, the reason why is because when I re-cooked my concrete from the wood, either (A) I used the wrong type of wood, or (B)I did not cook it at high enough temperature to create the proper compound to make it harden…..

[@sheaconnelly4287]

Nice attempt. But not really sure why this was post worthy. Epic fail.

[@xeviocane]

I know it wasnt a 100% success but it did make concrete but just not weather worthy…. So it would work for indoor purposes as a sealant of some type…. I don’t like manipulating videos only show the successes in life, I also like to show if it fails so people knows that not everything is always going to work 100% even if you follow the same steps ……

[@johnnyfleck8277]

Clickbate !. What your final product is, is more of a slate materiel, far less superior to actual concrete properties.

[@xeviocane]

Actually ur wrong , i did not heat it high enough to cure it to it heat properties, there will be another video in due time. It does work. I seen it done before.