Triumph TR6 A Brief Overview of Fuel Injection

With what's going on in the world right now, I've done a video request on the #TriumphTR6 Lucas Mk2 #FuelInjection System. This is a brief overview of the system, if the video is popular enough I might make more like this in the future, watch this space!!

[@davidswan6309]

Great video, very useful information. Thanks Steve.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Cheers David, that’s really kind of you to say so

[@NialPowerCork]

Superb info and very clear. Thank you much appreciated. I just bought a 74 TR6 for restoration at an on line auction so I've only seen photos, bit gambly I know but sure life is a risk. From this great video I now know its a 125bhp version and have a much better understanding of how the PI works. I've an interesting challenge, I'm importing the car into Ireland and it needs to be running in order to get assessed for registration tax so whilst I'm doing a frame off restoration I need to temporarily get the thing to just run, idle only will do it just neds to start and run for a couple of minutes. From this video I'm confident I can get it to run with a minimum of labour and parts, enough temporarily to have it run on the trailer at the registration inspection.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Cheers Niall, that's so true, we're only hear once, and what a great car to buy at auction too. I'm glade my video has helped you understand the Pi system a bit better on a Triumphs. I'm sure you'll have your car and and running soon, they are fantastic cars to own and run 👍

[@praetorious]

Thank-you so much for making this video Steve! This has been so informative. You've really taken the mystery out of setting up the metering unit, seems very approachable. I was not aware that the banjo bolts had check valves in them, but that makes sense when you think about it. I'm certain I've seen modern banjo bolts with check valves somewhere, so maybe there's a modern alternative to the originals which might give greater reliability.I had purchased a full set of CR PI gear to make a PI GT6. Sent them off to get refurbished, but frustratingly have not had any updates about them for months now, not too hopeful esp with the pandemic. I'm still intent on trying it out, so might have to find another set unfortunately. Stay safe, and thanks again. I've been inside for a month now, and received word that I'll probably be working from home for another one...

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Your very welcome, the time I rebuild an engine I'll do a more detailed video on the set up of the metering unit. GT6 Pi, I have seen this done before, its a great idea, if its set up right it will go well. When it comes to sending of parts with the Pi system I only use a handful of suppliers. Going back to the banjo bolts, be careful who you buy them from, NOS ones are far better made than some of the new stuff out there, and the same goes with injectors. Keep well and safe too my friend, the sooner we get through this the better

[@OffMyCloud]

Another great video Steve. Thanks for making these.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

No probs, and cheers mate 👍

[@paulb4uk]

Great overview the boot is good location for the pump i had a mk2 cavalier sri once ,the pump being underneath the car on a sort of cradle suspended from the boot floor by flexible mountings and the pump wiring got corroded ,

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Cheers Paul, yeah I find it keeps more stuff away from the hot engine, so in theory less to go wrong

[@T101cyberdynesystems]

Hi Steve, I always look forward to your latest video. I'm pretty familiar with the pi system, but just in the same way I'll enjoy watching say wheeler dealers or car sos about something I already know. By the way you should hear my new Phoenix big bore back box wow does it sound so good. Anyway keep up the good work.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Thank you so much for comment!! When I get comments like that it really does mean a lot!! I feel honoured that you enjoy watching my videos in the same way you enjoy watching car sos or wheeler dealers. I look forward to hearing your 6 at some point. I bet it sounds great with the Phoenix exhaust system 👍🏻

[@tomcollier2444]

I bought my car off a TR Specialist at the time, a guy called Geoff Mansfield owner of Northern TR Centre, originally based in Willington then later Sedgfield, both near Durham City. Luckily at the time he had a bit of a Lucas PI guru working for him, so I expect my car came set-up as good as you could get. Drove the car all year round in all weathers, including three years down to Cornwall for camping holidays. And it was blisteringly hot every time. Never has a single issue with the fuel system, although I did once strip the 'compressor' side of the fuel pump and gave the brass internals a good clean with fine grit paper to remove a bit of glaze. I'm not saying it doesn't go wrong, as you say it's a mechanical system so needs looking after. One thing for sure is you are 100% correct in my opinion, you need to use the damn cars regularly. What better excuse does anyone need, if you ever need a one! To get in the thing and drive it, because if you don't it'll give you grief. I'd love to own another 6 and it pains me to see so many lovely examples doing just a few hundred miles a year, but their boots are full of show winning rosettes!

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Yes, that is exactly it, cars are built to be driven! I don't mind the show cars as each to there own, and it does give us something to look at that is in mint condition, but a car should be used and enjoyed for what it is. At the same time, I've toyed many times with retiring my 6, being what is believed the be the 19 oldest surviving fuel injected TR6 in the world, and being registered in my home town. But then I think, its there for me to enjoy, and that is exactly what I do with my cars, enjoy them, and use them

[@ronpilchowski9898]

Origanality is great, but an alternative modern EFI closed loop works great, i just finished installing a holley sniper in my 74' spitfire, no more choke just turn the key and it starts and idles like new honda. I love it

[@SteveDentonClassics]

That's what I love about classic car ownership, there is so many paths you can take, weather it's original, modified, or original with some modifications . There is the scope to do whatever you want with a classic and everyone is happy 👍

[@billgregory9560]

Hi Steve am I ever glad i found your site, I exported my 73 tr6 to canada where I had moved to from london england in 1981 its only got 45 ,000 miles on it original, totaly rust free since Ziebart underbody protection from new,no accident damage I feel it is probably the only truly original tr6 in the world, since its fuel injection no mechanic in canada knows how it works and so it sat for 40 years under cover, in the meantime started a business raised a family moved 3 times , now its retirement time and every day i look at my try and promise myself ill try to get it running again, Im not a mechanic but used to do simple things to it back in the uk, so I have the ability to habdle tools, so Im delighted to find you with your information and guidance, ill keep you posted if interested Ill send you my e mail address you made my day sorry fore the long mail

[@SteveDentonClassics]

What a lovely story, it would be great if you could get your TR6 up and running again. Being a '73 that would make it a CR car 125bhp, and in general they are a little more tame and driver friendly over the earlier 150bhp. The throttle linkage on the CRs tends to be a bit of a pain to set up right, but they are great when you get them running well. I'm sure you'll have it running again soon 👍

[@johndavey72]

Hi Steve . You lost me after you said " Well hey guys" ! 😂 l can do virtually anything regarding body/paintwork but mechanical "no way hozay!" Back in 1973 l had a PI MK2 with the Lucas pump. It only let me down on one occasion and that was 2o'clock in the morning when l was taking one of our barmaids home...honest!!! And on another occasion the pipe split and l lost a whole tank of petrol in 7miles! Great show and l will get mine returned to Lucas when the time comes. ( l've been making good all the metalwork on a Jaguar MK 9 for the last 6months in exchange for mechanical work on my "e"type! It's now payback time!) I see yours has a chrome rocker cover . I think l'm correct in that the early 6's had them factory fitted. Thanks Mate.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Haha, no probs. Yes your right, the chrome rocker cover was an early 1969 thing. Then rest of production they we're painted grey. Sounds like you've got a lot to keep you busy!

[@marknelson5929]

Crikey - very informative I must say. I'm toying with purchasing a 2500S manual carb model or a 2500S PI manual (both cars available at time of writing and both in very very good order throughout). At the end of the day the carb model will dare I say be easier to look after due to how the fuel is delivered - I live in a hot climate.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

In all honestly a car a petrol injection car can be more easier to maintain if set up correclty than a carb car. They just run at high pressures, and must be used regularly. When you think about it, modern cars are fuel injection, ok they are electronic not mechanical fuel injection, but the principle is the same. It's really down to what you want from the car, both systerms have their pro and cons. I mean unless you know what your doing with a Pi systerm then altering the fuel air mixture for diffirent climates at the side of the road is a little more harder to do. If I was going for a car with carbs I'd want to go with one that had a set of SU's on it, as they are dead easy to maintian, and thrive on neglect. Strongbergs suffer with diapham failures, they are ok, but SUs are just better 👍

[@marknelson5929]

Fair enough re what you say, as you have the experience. I'm unsure as to my abilities re injection, but do know a respected Triumph man who does. Nevertheless interesting what you say re Stromberg versus SU's. I have a 1974 P6B 3500S which uses SU's and yes they are easy to maintain and 'thrive on neglect'. I've had many SU cars over the years and never had any trouble with them. Interesting that in some overseas markets Rover used Strombergs instead of SUs for their later SD1. So I gather fitting SUs to a Triumph is pretty straightforward?

[@SteveDentonClassics]

With Triumphs it was both a cost things and a necessity thing. For example on the GT6, and TR4's you can't just swap out the Strongbergs for a set of normal SU carbs or the bonnet won't close. So if you was to swap out Stromgbergs on a GT6 or TR4, you'd use Dolomite Sprint SUs as dashpots that are shorter, and therefore you can close the bonnet. You can buy conversion kits Strongberg to SU from Chris Witor or Moss Europe for the big saloons. Stromgbergs are ok, but I'd always keep a spare set of diaphrams in the glovebox just in case they split 👍

[@marknelson5929]

Many thanks Steve for the advise.

[@simonedwards5070]

Brilliant again Steve! Lucas pump was a wiper motor wasn’t it anyway I’ve got the same system but Trgb says that since Bosch outsourced their pumps to Latvia they’re s*#t so it’s an English pump now( not sure who) but it’s on mine but mounted outside behind wheel but unless tank is topped up all the time it cavitates (howls) never starts on 6 always 5 🥰

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Cheers Simon, yeah, Bosch stopped making them a few years back, so now its a 'Bosch like' fuel pump now, however we all still refer to them as the Bosch fuel pump conversion. TRGB do an excellent externally mounted fuel pump, its been very well developed by Gary Bates and his chaps. The stating on 4 or 5 cylinders, such a common thing for the Lucas Mk2 fuel system. I normally let my 6 warm up for 5 mins or so before I drive it, that way the system has a chance to purge any air our of it without causing damage

[@billgregory9560]

Im back Steve , the tr is still in my garage undriven for 20 yrs and this winter Im getting at it to try to get it running so ill be looking at your u tube information

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Great stuff, hope you enjoy my content, and get your TR back on the road 👍

[@cheftush]

Excellent Video Steve. Oddly enough, Les was wanting to learn more about the PI cars as I was telling him the difference between UK cars and NA Cars. I’ll have him watch your video ( if I can get him to sit still and behave that is 😉) One question, is the PI throttle linkage controlled by a cable? I think I see it coming off the centre of the manifold out towards the outer fender?

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Haha good stuff and perfect timing, maybe he can watch it during his union break! Yes, on fuel injection the throttle linkage is controlled by a cable. It's a weak spot on the car as the cables have a tendency to strip on the ferrule as it goes through the bulkhead. Modern cables are just poorly made. To overcome this many owners simply reinforce the cable with a cable tie and the problem goes away.Hope this helps, cheers Steve

[@MichaelFearnleyBass]

Great video Steve! Really informative stuff, but I have one question that's niggling me about the whole arrangement. If the system needs to draw enough of a vacuum to actuate the fuel flow through a diaphragm, like a carburettor does, then why is it more efficient? Is it that the vacuum isn't as high as in a carburettor as it doesn't need to pull the fuel through the needle gap and atomise it, or am I missing something?

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Cheers Magic Monty, right then, the vacuum on the side of the metering unit is only there for acceleration and anything higher than idle speeds. In a petrol injection Triumph, the whole air side of the system relays on good air seals to work well. To explain why fuel injection is more efficient than carburetor we need to go back to basics. With a carb, it will draw fuel to whatever cylinder requires it under vacuum. The quantity of fuel drawn per cylinder by a carb will be different due to wear, valve adjustment, and various other reasons. Put simply the fuel per cylinder is unregulated. If you change to fuel injection, the fuel is pressured, the injectors open and close with exactly the same quantity's of fuel to each cylinder regardless of wear, valve adjustment, and various other reason. In simple terms controlling the fuel flow quantity to each cylinder with exact quantity's will give a bigger bang, and will see you more closer to the perfect air flow mix of 14.7:1 (stoichiometric ratio) Hope this helps answer your question, cheers Steve 👍

[@njaahkbackyardbodyworks1807]

nice video Steve, I found that very informative...I thought about going the injector route, but decided to do triple DOHE instead....and of course the end notes are beautiful...nice grovelled voice she's got...very sexy indeed....Keep up the good work...Cheers!!!

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Cheers mate, triple Webers, that’ll certainly give your GT6 some poke!!

[@racketman2u]

do you mean DCOE (Weber) or DHLA (Dellorto) or something similar?

[@markboden2749]

Hi Steve. I am working on my tr6 after it’s been standing for two years but am worried about turning the engine over as there is no oil pressure. What is the best way to pressurise the oil system. Obviously I have the spark plugs out. Thanks Steve.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Hi Mark, you can remove the distributor complete with its gear drive to camshaft. If you can make a long rod to fit inside the shaft where the distributor was, with a notch at the end, and to the other end attach to a drill. Then left hand turn this in the drill, this will operate the oil pump in the engine manually, without turning the engine over, therefore pressurizing/ priming the oil system. It's something many engine builders do prior to first start up on a new engine 👍

[@amandasettee8922]

Hi Steve Bill again , can yo tell me what the part # on the bosch pump is as in canada here no one understands the pi system and to import the part from the uk involvesa crazy duty and shipping charges if I can get the exact bosch pump her I can retrofit the rest of the system hopefully still trying to get the tr up and running thanks Steve

[@SteveDentonClassics]

The last Bosch fuel pump I purchased for a TR6 was part number 0580254910 you need to make sure the pump is capable for over 100psi as most modern equivalents are only rated to around 50-60psi max due to EFI demanding lower fuel pressure 👍🏻

[@robstirling3173]

Condensation/water in the fuel tank caused a lot of pump/injector problems. Do you use an upper cylinder lube/Redex to lubricate pump and injectors?

[@SteveDentonClassics]

This is very true, water ingress can cause all sorts of issues. Personally on my own historic cars I only use high quality Shell V Power 99 Or BP 98 fuel, which are less prone to water in fuel issues. Classic cars of the 60's and 70's seem to run better on this fuel, and there is less of the dreaded ethanol the higher quality fuel. As for additives, I only use Castrol lead replacement octane booster. Older cars we're designed to run on higher octane than we run in today's fuels. Even though most of my cars have had there valve seat converted and hardened for unleaded, the additive isn't a bad thing, it just does what lead in the fuel would normally do, cushion the valve. So in theory if well looked after it giving my engines a longer life span. As for Redex, I have used it, it's great stuff for cleaning out fuel line, and keeping fuel systems in good condition, however like drinking too much whiskey I'd only use that hear and there, as over use can be damaging to seals. Hope this helps, cheers Steve 👍

[@unigateman]

Hi Steve, another great video. I sold a CR 2 years ago and the guy who bought it never drove it , I bought it back and have got it running like a clock, I checked the injectors and number two and four were dribbling a quick tap and everything seems fine. She runs only very slightly rough in traffic, but when I hit the gas she takes off. Ive changed the points, ( a slight improvement) cylinder number 4 is running slightly rich, compression test showing 150 on all cylinders except 4 which is 145. which could explain rough running in traffic any ideas Steve ? Ive checked all hoses and replaced jubilee clips, except the hoses on the rails.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Hi Stewey, your compression is likely down due to bore wash. The cause of which could be down to a leaky injector. Before changing the injector do check the ignition system, with the plug and lead. switch them with another cylinder, just to make 100% sure you issue is a fuel problem, and not an ignition problem. Then take it from there. All the best Steve 👍

[@unigateman]

@@SteveDentonClassics plug leads , plugs new points , the injectors seem ok.

[@billgregory9560]

Hi Steve can you tell me what the bosch pump you have on your tr mine is of course a lucas and Iknow it doesnt work right so thats where Ill start with a new pump I just want to get the right one thanks Bill

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Hi Bill, I got my Bosch pump around 12 years ago from Prestige Injection. Unfortunately Malcolm at Prestige Injection has retired so I'd recommend getting one from TRGB, they make a very good externally mounted fuel pump for the TR6 👍

[@grahamjohn331]

Steve, the P.I. set up looks so much more impressive then carbs. Quite exotic (that's exotic, not erotic) looking. A question - how is the metering unit driven? Graham

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Hi Graham, the metering unit is driven off the pedestal. Basically you have the jack shaft going up from the cam shaft to drive the distributor, but between the jack shaft and the distributor you have the pedestal. That just gives a 90 degree angle gear so that the distributor and metering unit can be driven together from the jack shaft. Cheers Steve

[@grahamjohn331]

Steve Denton thanks Steve.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

No probs

[@christoph404]

regarding those original design Lucas fuel pumps, I had one on my car for a number of years and it seemed to function okay but I was living in Scotland which was a coolish climate and I was only doing open road driving, when I moved to London for work that is when the Lucas pump got very temperamental and actually left me stranded a couple of times, once on the south bound carriageway of Park Lane at which point I had a bosch pump fitted, that was around 20 years ago, I think in warm climates those pumps are useless and after living in Scotland I considered the south of England as a warm climate!! ...and the car is still working on that Bosch pump, fitted outside in the wheel arch where it gets caked in road grime, but it is still going strong. I think that original Lucas fuel pump was a poor design to start with and the achilles heal of the whole system and the main reason many frustrated owners dismantled the fuel injection and installed either twin or triple carbs.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

It's typical of anything British, make do and mend attitude. You can see why the Japanese and Germans took over with making the best cars in the world. They pay attention to the details and develop the correct parts for the jobs they are needed for

[@christoph404]

@@SteveDentonClassics absolutely true Steve, the TR6 was a successful car for BL with 80% of cars produced for the export market, they sold well, and then BL management totally threw it all away with their poor decisions and poor quality control.

[@johnnorth9355]

Blast - so I can't just bolt my metering unit back on and hope it will run ? :) . Just as well it needs a full engine rebuild having been stood for 25 years ! Way above my pay grade so will have to get it professionally done.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

You can if the pedestal hasn't been removed, otherwise you'll be scratching your head trying to get it set up right. Its the gearing from the cam to the pedestal to the MU that needs to be right. To get it perfect its best done with the head off. But just replacing the metering unit, you can just unbolt it and rebolt it on, so long as the gearing is timed up right in the first place. Cheers Steve

[@jtorralb]

I went with the triple SU's from Weber DCOE 40's and could not be happier. Looked into PI but was too costly here in the US. Some pictures here www.roadsterdrivers.com/album/4

[@SteveDentonClassics]

That's awesome! I do love the triple SU conversion, and from those pictures it looks a neat job. I've never seen one over hear in the UK, only ever in photos 👍

[@roscoe9507]

Awesome video Steve mate as always, drop me a message so I have your number again, knackered my phone up and icloud won’t update the new phone.

[@SteveDentonClassics]

Cheers buddy, I'll message you in a bit

[@billgregory9560]

I cant reply to your on your you tube site this is the only way unless you have another way, thanks Bill

[@SteveDentonClassics]

I'm available on Instagram, and sometimes on Facebook, just type in Steve Denton or Steve Denton Classics and you should be able to find me 👍