Bishop Barron on "Inception"

Another part of a video series from Wordonfire.org. Bishop Barron will be commenting on subjects from modern day culture. For more visit www.wordonfire.org/

[@paigehill424]

I have no idea whether Chris Nolan is religious or not, but even if he doesn't intend to, I feel like their are constant religious undertones in his films; even in Inception. When Fischer goes into his deep subconscious, what does he find? He finds his father. What does his father do? He forgives him, and Fischer also discovers his fathers will. It may not be in direct correlation to God, but I feel that there's definitely some symbolism there.

[@joseoctavioveracervantes2221]

Good point

[@theTavis01]

But Fischer does not actually find his father, he finds an actor playing his father. It's all a hoax to control his mind - if there is symbolism of religion here, I don't think it's favorable!

[@JUNKIngeniero]

@@theTavis01 it was not an actor. it was his own subconscious telling that he needed to move on, the inception in itself (the actor, the character played by tom hardy, was watching from the door)

[@itslifeisall]

I for one find it refreshingly encouraging to see a Catholic Priest show the humility and insight to validate the ancient spiritual practices so common in Eastern Religions, and that would undoubtedly be of benefit if more common in Christianity. Hats off to you Father Barron, this approach is a rising tide, one that floats all boats, regardless of their port of call.

[@itslifeisall]

"The deepest level of communication is not communication, but communion. It is wordless. It is beyond words, and it is beyond speech, and it is beyond concept. Not that we discover a new unity. We discover and older unity. My dear brothers and sisters, we are already one. But we imagine that we are not. And what we have to recover is our original unity. What we have to be is what we are." ~Thomas Merton, 1968 Calcutta, India

[@aVo_001]

Father Barron, your commentaries motivate me more than anything else I can think of. I also can't wait for the Catholicism Project. Praise be God that we have such an amazing representative such as Father Barron!

[@JosipM333]

I love this man! God bless you from Croatia!

[@coug1286]

Very insightful! What a blessing you are to us!

[@justingutube]

LOVE the convo man, good stuff brother.

[@BishopBarron]

@n3hemiah I certainly agree that mathematics begins in ordinary experience, but the symbols and concepts of pure math are not tied to worldly things. Otherwise, they would be subject to revision, refinement, etc.

[@lorinspire4168]

Bishop Robert Barron I heard something like this from a Protestant Pastor and it amazed me how he was able to explain it. I’m still discerning Fr. if I will continue to listen to his points regarding some Bible verses. Anyways, he said that the Rules of Science, the so called Laws, are simply based on the Laws of God. It’s NOT that man formulated the rules of science, hence mathematical formulas etc. but in fact that man DISCOVERED the rules of science. Because God has already arranged those facts long before. I’m a quite curious person Fr. and I constantly listen to ideologies. But I was advised over and over to do it in moderation, specifically to as much as possible limit my readings to the writings of the Catholic Church, because of some contents that the evil is using. But quite surprisingly, that Pastor I mentioned earlier has resonated so much of my understanding of some verses in the Bible. I’ve heard he has a close friend who is a Bishop and he’s also been invited to speak in the Vatican on the topic of family. And I think last year, he made a statement that his beliefs and the Catholic beliefs have a lot of similarities. But then he lied low and somehow reversed his statement when he was criticized for his views. I do pray for him Fr! I hope you could give me advice if I can perhaps continue listening to him. But for now, so long as I am not able to speak to a Priest like yourself Fr. about these thoughts, I’ll stop listening to his preaching. I continue to pray. Prayers are with you Fr. Robert. May God, Mama Mary, all the angels and saints, protect you all the time! Praise be Jesus and Mary forever. Amen.

[@Blaseboniface]

Beautifully done! It is not a waste of time to find lost souls where they are and show them a map back to the spirit. But what is spirit? Passing through the dark night of the soul, where the corrupted intellect, cannot perceive, where as in the ancient Tridentine Mass with communion, the soul in wordless conversation with God discovers itself, the Inner Sanctum of St. Teresa Avila's Interior Castle, and then is able to go back to the intellect and use that "tool". Good work Fr. Barron!

[@redeemed2012]

I watched Inception and never thought of it the way Father Barron did, only because as practicing Catholic I should now better. I agree with Father on his assessment though because it is absolutely true and crucial that we to look deep into out heart, mind and soul to find God or even improve our relationship with God. But we can hardly expect anything else as near as what Father described from Hollywood now a day. Thank you Father for your valuable and helpful insight of the movie.

[@RJMelbourne]

Go Father Barron!! I'm gonna read the Firewatch book you suggested! :) By the way, I ordered the "Eucharist" DVD and I'm watching it now - I love it. God Bless you Father!

[@10elozano]

Thanks n3hemiah and Fr. Barron for this sub-discussion. Very interesting to read about Godel in this thread.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra When you really understand a purely formal truth such as 2 + 2 = 4, you are experiencing a kind of space-timelessness, for that proposition is true no matter where or when you are. Its truth cannot be localized or temporalized. and thus it gives you, as even Bertrand Russell saw, a taste of eternity.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

Exellent Father, that was "Hole in one" if I ever seen one!

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Oh I don't know. The most fundamental features of the physical universe can only be described with stunningly complex mathematics. Sure, we're able to take this in, but how do you explain that it's there in the first place? I'm not talking about those features of the world that seem comfortable to us (that's explainable through evolution). I'm talking about the universe's objective structure. So just curious: how do you explain this? Where do the laws of nature come from?

[@Serge165]

@Wordonfire I've got to read those books at some time. I Enjoy also how you explain it.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Then how do you explain the massive intelligibility evident in every corner of the universe, the intelligibility that is the assumed foundation of any science?

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra The Jungian archetypes are a bit like the Platonic forms. And remember: there was a form of the Good, which illumined the lesser forms and corresponds to the sun in the parable of the cave. The Christian church fathers tended to identify God with the form of the Good. Campbell does much the same thing.

[@BriTh0mas]

Very interesting comments. I really loved what you were saying about Merton's "Fire Watch" and the journey within. While I was watching the film I was more interested in his relationship with his wife. I saw parallels with the way that he clung to her and the way that we can often cling to our sins and vices. I saw redemptive qualities in the way that their relationship resolved (I'm trying hard to avoid spoilers) and in the ending of the film. Best movie of the summer IMHO.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Oh come on! The number two was derived originally from spatial objects, sure. But any mathematician will tell you that it is no longer tethered necessarily to spatial things. Numbers are outside of space and time; otherwise, mathematical functions would not have their absolute character.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Well for the time being, I'm happy to stay with what you're calling a Deistic God, as long as you hold that this reality has thought into existence the staggering and deeply beautiful intelligibility evident throughout the cosmos. Then we can take further steps. The tsunami issue you raise is, in regard to intelligibility, a red herring. That belongs in the context of a discussion of theodicy.

[@lorinspire4168]

Hi Fr Robert Barron! I’ve really enjoyed watching your videos and loved every video you have created. Thank you very much for your relentless work for Christ and the whole Catholic Church! I’m truly truly grateful! I bumped into this video because of the title. Inception has always bugged me through the years because I could not get the point of it all, like what do I get from this movie, what are its moral or ethical implications, whats the use, and I could only extract a lousy conclusion, which is JUST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CLIENT AND HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS WIFE. Do we know that we can really implant idea on the deepest level of sleep? That I do not know. I note that they used some high tech device to connect to the dreams of each other but I really dont know. Now, going back, I find your commentary very relieving in a way, coz it sparked a lot of curiosity again as to the usefulness of the film. And hmmm, as you mentioned the book Firewatch and all these levels, I could only turn to one (well) good enough application perhaps. To keep your commentary in mind when we approach people we want to pray for. People we want to encourage to deepen their faith. As I learned on your commentary, maybe we could make use of this as our ‘strategy’ ~ i dont know how to term it in a formal theo sense~ to approach our brothers and sisters especially those doubting their faith or those not convinced of the Catholic faith. I’m not sure whether it’s from you (or from Catholic Apologetics I’ve also began to watch recently) where I got the idea that in order to ‘convert’ someone, you simply just have to befriend that person. And over the years, the Holy Spirit will just flow in them especially during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and experiencing first hand the Holy Eucharist. But you see, what I think is, each person has gone thru levels (like a game). Once they have experienced that level, it is easier for them to go back to that level and explore it over and over again. But they have to unlock each level first, no matter how difficult (like the typical Tetris game) You start with Level 1 until such time you reach the highest you could possibly get. (by the way, sometimes these new online games simply do not have the finish line! Just about you’re able to see the last stage to claim ur victory, another stage starts to appear. What I do, I simply do “okay okay, I surrender” Will this be also true to our faith? The unfathomable love of God?) Sorry Fr. I’m really just distracted at times with some thoughts while I write. Now going back to the topic. If only we, in our quest to exert our human efforts to convince our brothers and sisters to pray for us as much as we pray for them, would it be nice to feel first or to be able to recognize what level does our brother/sister has ‘unlocked’ and just start from there. There might be a number of reasons why he/she has not gone deeper, maybe circumstances in his/her life or even pertaining to the 7 deadly sins, we will never know. But I am very happy to start simple convos. Before it was very frustrating for me and very disheartening to see people belittling any person’s faith, whether it be mine or fellow Catholics who are very sincere in conveying God’s love in the best way we could possible think of. But with the grace of God and prayers, I was able to comfortably accept that yeah, ‘Love God, work at it with all your heart, all your soul, and understanding...” and “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you”. I believe God will do the rest! Sorry for the lengthy thought. I don’t know if I make sense to you or the people who might be able to read this. Please include me in your prayers. I’m happy to pray for you too Fr. Robert! Praise be Jesus and Mary forever. Amen!

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra But what is the ground out of which the archetypes emerge? Even Campbell believed in a sacred source beyond the archetypes themselves. What he called the "undifferentiated reality from which all things come and to which they return" I call "God."

[@JAYDUB1279]

Fr. Barron - We got something very different out of Inception. I saw a Christian message the filmmakers were trying to "incept" into Hollywood's unconscious. It was a critique of relativism. It said that the relativistic compromises secularists accommodate to escape our Creator and Judge get progressively unstable and "thin", and some, like Mal, get perilously lost there. We're to think we were given a choice at the end but, in fact, the coin faintly wobbles. We all think we chose their ending.

[@BishopBarron]

@n3hemiah Tell me, please, how 2 + 2 = 4 is not absolutely true. And show me how the circle or square that pure geometricians deal with are ttied to matter.

[@Vincentaneous]

As a fan of Christopher Nolan, when Mr. Barron points out Inception's "relentless secularism", my I realized why I love Nolan's films so much. Nolan is an intellectual and he plays with ideas without the base trappings of ideas like good and evil or souls or spirits or sin or hell or heaven. This is why Nolan's films are so refreshing, engaging, and ... popular.

[@BishopBarron]

@n3hemiah But then why should I think that Godel's theorems aren't culturally conditioned and subject to revision? And if there really is "no way to logically outflank him," then he must have found the universal point of vantage that I was originally talking about! I know a little about Godel (who believed in God, by the way), but I don't see how the laws of the universe could possibly affect the pure abstractions that mathematicians deal with.

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

That would involve the process of thinking for yourself, which most people try to avoid doing whenever possible, in order to utilize your own discernment.

[@BishopBarron]

@alexington459 Good! I like it!

[@Blaseboniface]

Respond to this video... Fr. Barron mentioned in one of his talks St. Edith Stein. I got a copy of her book, The Science of the Cross, which describes very precisely and what I am convinced is interiorly verifiable: the falling in love that results in Faith so certain that the flaws of fallen mankind's "logical reason" get healed and paradoxically only then does reason fully function. "God manifests himself to the soul who abandons herself to him and truly loves him."

[@TheHardout2005]

@Blaseboniface God bless you, and welcome home!

[@Blaseboniface]

@Nemesis000000 Fr. Barron in one of his talks speaks of Proof by Desire. We are "wired" to desire God as we are "wired" to desire water. Hans Urs Von Balthasar wrote a little book called, "Glaubhaft ist nur Liebe", Only Love is Believable. For a long time I was a very assertive atheist and studied intensely and debated for atheism, then one day I was struck to the Heart with the Memory of receiving Communion as a child and the debate was over, falling in Love with God all over again.

[@BeeZee2]

@Childinfaith ... It is worthwhile to analyze "pop culture" in terms of how it relates to (or detracts from) each person's journey to find his or her purpose in life. Let's face it... We are immersed in secularism every day, and it requires effort and determination to uncover and grasp what really matters, that is to know and love God, and each other.

[@kailkilbourne6063]

Perhaps you felt like it was a missed opportunity, and I could see why. But I rewatched this recently, and noticed that--whether Nolan is a Christian or not--it explores many various themes that his other films share. Without giving too much away, obsession leads destruction and tragedy. I do wish Cobb and his men had explored more "why are we here?" while in the dreamscapes. We also see reconciliation between father and son. Perhaps the greatest strength is that it doesn't try to excuse the characters' behavior, unlike other heist movies.

[@Jugglable]

@jackhoffmaster123 What do you mean when you say that Thomas Merton "blended" Buddhism with Catholicism? He explored certain aspects of Buddhism as a Catholic.

[@Entropy3ko]

@wordonfirevideo Exactly Fr. Barron. Also some scientists are entertaining themselves with the idea that time is not a fundamental but an emergent property of the universe. Of course this mixes mathematical logic and models with phiplosophy (a mix sometimes unavoidable in cosmology)

[@BriTh0mas]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the other movie I really enjoyed, "Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World" It's a comic book and video game tribute movie, but it's a lot of fun!

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra Spacetime is a subset of Eternity. The connection between the two is expressed in the formula of Einstein E=MC2 (squared) which if you examine it reveals that at the speed of light there is no time and is no matter, pure energy outside the timeline. When energy descends into the time line suddenly matter is created. Within that matter is the fingerprint from which it comes which is God. The archetypes are the charged and detailed wiring which an open Heart can follow back to God.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Well if even further dimensions of intelligibility are discovered in the future, that supports my case, not yours! Even Einstein admitted that any serious scientist realizes that, in surveying the universe, he is dealing with a Mind that dwarfs our own minds. Or as Joseph Ratzinger has observed, all of our science is an act of re-cognition, literally thinking again what has already been thought.

[@n3hemiah]

@wordonfirevideo Also, as a side note, mathematics has gone under much refinement over the years. Calculus was invented by Newton and Leibniz at the same time, and other forms of mathematics such as perturbation, topology, group theory, and the calculus of differentiations have all been invented and explored as the centuries passed.

[@477lrn]

What links does it have to Edgar Allen Poe?

[@BrendanBeckett]

Is that bookshelf a backdrop?

[@ammazzamoro]

@Nemesis000000 I think it just may be a backdrop in this case. I know if you watch the older videos he is sitting in a professorial offce. Fr. Barron has been traveling quite a bit working on a project so I can imagine that the backdrop of his office has been used for the sake of continuity.

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra Outside of spacetime is Eternity. Spacetime is created as the energy descends below the speed of light into time where everything including we spacetime creatures are created within spacetime. Of course anything outside spacetime is beyond our intellect's capacity to know except obviously there is "something" outside the time line that translates into 2+2 in the time line. That Energy creates us and the "absolute character" of "mathematical functions" to which Father Barron refers.

[@DarthMambo]

@CitizenSkeptic Many philosophers believed in the concept of the spirit, as well as other immaterial realities - in a couple of sentences... My spirit is what makes my body alive. How else do we define death other than the separating of this spirit from a physical body? I am self aware, not just a machine. My spirit is what makes me, me. If in surgery they cut off an arm or part of my brain, I am still me. That is my spirit. If you'd like to know more I'd suggest reading Thomas Aquinas.

[@MonoKulen]

Cool poetic thoughts padre. Yes, movie is about subconscious, but I can't see correlation you are making between subconscious and our soul. As I understood St. Francis; he wasn't talking about our subconscious(motives behind our actions), he was talking about meditation of the soul where we can know God's love, behind world's actions...behind our selfs, our subconscious. Fairytale Inception is about how people's thoughts can be programmed in Sigmund Freud's way: motives behind actions.

[@BrendanBeckett]

@SmokiSounds I would say the same thing about religion. Secular humanism is where the real journey's of self discovery and outward discovery can exist with the sciences and free thought. While Inception portrays the dream world very simplistically, what it gets right is the idea that you don't need God to exist for spiritual experience and introspection.

[@husq48]

How does one make this inward journey?

[@Theccc62]

Father, as a man who loves movies and has recently re-discovered Catholicism, i began to wonder whether or not it is a sin to watch movies and tv programs that use vulgar language or show nudity. I know there are shows and movies out their (such as South Park) that are just complete smut but what about shows that have deep themes (such as the sapranos or true blood) that swear and show nudity. Thoughts? God Bless

[@lipanj7]

Gee Father, I thought one finds God in Love, forgiveness of those who wronged us. And sometimes suffering. Altho yes God is in nature as Dante said. God is all around us.

[@anthtan]

Very interesting take, Father. Thank you. However, I agree that you are expecting a lot from a Hollywood film. 'Inception' isn't just supposed to be a big-effects summer blockbuster. It's a heist story, basically! It's hard to work in a moral, spiritual angle into such a premise. Viewers are supposed to just eat their pop corn and enjoy the eye candy. Having said that, I suspect writer and director Christopher Nolan would be very intrigued or even inspired by your comments.

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra Archetypes (yes, a term coined by Carl Jung) intrigued Joseph Campbell precisely because as Jung observed archetypes contain a charged structural constant independent of culture & individual, the surface variations of which Campbell referred to as "inflections", a theme in his 4 vol. Masks Of God. You disagree with Jung which is to disagree with Campbell, and then you give archetypes your own relativistic spin which is to redefine the term and misses the point of Jung and Campbell.

[@DarthMambo]

@Nemesis000000 "you don't need God to exist for spiritual experience and introspection" Did someone dispute this? Someone who doesn't believe in God can, of course, introspect. However, grace builds on nature.in that it elevates this introspection towards the source of life rather than simply the self. Without God I could introspect, I just couldn't exist ;-)

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra "Entropy" by definition is the tendency of a closed system to move towards homogeneity of the constituents of its thermodynamic system. If "undifferentiated" "complete entropy" was all there was at the start of the big bang, then by definition an outside source was required that suddenly created all the laws of physics and mathematics or there was no entropy (void). I argue this outside force is God. In principio erat Verbum...It is the Giver behind the gift that should be celebrated.

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra Yes, that expression "outside force" makes me a bit anxious that I might be misunderstood that God is not within us as well. God/your impersonal universe that explains itself is within the creation it manifests as well as the wholly Other outside what creatures can comprehend. Until your Heart opens up, how can, as Henri de Lubac notes "that Fullness, if reached by analysis alone, not seem at first sight empty?" (The Discovery of God, pg. 107).

[@BrendanBeckett]

@DarthMambo SmokiSounds disputed it. Life is the source of life and we are all own a sliver of that pie. We are all "God" in the sense that you seem to mean here. IMO of course.

[@ryan651]

I wouldn't say the movie was so much secularism as opposed to questioning are we really capable of interpreting reality. The movie seems to say more about how we take things for granted and instead is trying to show a world where Cogito ergo sum is turned upside down, after all, once you enter a dream as they had done, how can you ever be sure you've actually left that dream however still a good video from you as usual and I have to say I enjoyed the film. :)

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra The phenomena of anthropomorphizing actually gets in the way of experiencing God. People at first get the idea that God is a loving Parent, but then project their imperfect parents onto God. And worse they evaluate the Creator via their created intellects-Hans Urs Von Balthasar called this "anthropomorphic reduction"-as if the subset encompassed the set. You seem to be versed in mathematics, so I use that metaphor.

[@hugopelland]

Any evidence that dreams and/or consciousness is not only a consequence of the physical body? In other words, why is it 'spiritual' ? Always like your videos Fr. Barron!

[@benaberry]

Barron, come on, how do you make a comment like that?? Going deep down into our psyche is about discovering god. Is this the metaphysical method? Do you have any good reason to support this?

[@DarthMambo]

@CitizenSkeptic Is it that they don't mean anything or don't mean anything to you? Rather than vague, I would say his choice of words is very specific. As for not referring to anything "real" that's also very subjective. Some would say "love" isn't "real" - they would, however, be wrong.

[@DarthMambo]

@hugopelland God regularly spoke through dreams in the Bible and most psychoanalysts go nuts over dream analysis to better understand "the inner man". Also, if we are composed of body and soul then you would expect a very close relationship between the two.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@CitizenSkeptic .... You really need to get into Peter Kreeft's philosphy audio lectures. All the words you listed have meaning or else they wouldn't exist. It's #31 on the list, "Language of Beauty".

[@grayk47]

Trust me Fr. it would take you a lot longer than a day to fully cover the plots, its themes, and style. I recently spent about a week teaching a class about the film and still, i was not able to fully cover all the important stuff.

[@sondrebeatlebaker]

Father, while you did not like the secularism of Inception, might I suggest another film that dares to delve deep into the unconscious. This film also happens to star Leonardo DiCaprio. It's Shutter Island. I saw your analysis of The Departed and I was wondering what you thought of Scorsese's most recent outing.

[@NwZ2]

secularism isn't diametrically opposed to introspection, or even spirituality.

[@DarthMambo]

@Nemesis000000 "Life is the source of life"? I'm afraid that statement doesn't make any sense to me. I didn't mean to suggest that in introspection we discover God within us *which is ourselves*, rather we discover the fingerprints of Him who made us, the source from which came. In introspection we discover the restlessness inside which aches for more than the world can give. "Our hearts were made for you, O Lord, and we will wander restless until we rest in You" - St. Augustine

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra The ideal is not problematic. What is problematic is holding anything other than perfect relationship with God as ideal/perfect. "Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." Colossians 1:28. Man here as the basic common denominator of man and woman. The Priest is a man because he is in the role of the person of Jesus at the Last Supper. To be fully human is to center one's existence in God.

[@tifforo1]

He says there was no enlightenment... I think the characters got at least a little bit when DiCaprio tried to resolve the issues with his wife, and the guy whose mind they were entering got some (false?) enlightenment when he met his dad in the secret room. I didn't know that simply being serious without mentioning religion was "relentless secularism."

[@DarthMambo]

@ezemdi hahah It's not a film review - the movie is just a "jumping-off point". The film is all about looking into the depths of person so he spoke about the concept of deep self-examination in the Christian tradition.

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra Fascinating! "The universe explains itself." You are coming close to an intellectual proof of God. You seem to get the part that we cannot comprehend, as well as the created part that our intellects finds "intelligible"-to borrow a phrase from Fr. Barron. The only thing missing is the personal interest of the incomprehensible Creator in us creatures. You might check out Buckminster Fuller's "scientifically meticulous, direct-experience based proof of God" in Critical Path, pgs153-158.

[@NMikeM]

I love your videos. This time, however, I think you missed what Inception's about. When Leonardo DiCaprio talked about Inception, he compared it to Fellini's 8 1/2, a film about the tortures of filmmaking, and he said that Cobb represents Chris Nolan. I think Mal is a symbol for an artistic vision. Whatever dream (film) Cobb tries to make, he's haunted by Mal. He has to admit that he can't capture her full beauty in order to return to living.

[@xTheSchnitzel]

Please do something on his new movie: tenet

[@lukagorgadze4886]

The greatest way to find God through looking inside is Hesychasm

[@eternityisyouth]

Isn't there some danger to saying the spiritual quest of the Christian is inward? I thought spiritual practices such as the centering prayer were considered dangerous by many spiritual directors. What about what Chesterton writes in Orthodoxy, when critiquing the mindset that says Christianity and Buddhism are actually very similar in their spirituality? "Insisting that God is inside man, man is always inside himself. By insisting that God transcends man, man has transcended himself."

[@NwZ2]

@SmokiSounds not really.

[@n3hemiah]

@wordonfirevideo I am not saying mathematics is subjective. I am the furthest thing from a relativist. But the simple fact is that were we born into a darkness without space or time--if we were disembodied intellects, like angels, I suppose--then mathematics could not exist. Math is actually not a pure abstraction. It is permanently moored to physicality by ropes which many have attempted to sever. It is not an a priori reality, but an a posteriori description.

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra Actually believers recognize that the Creator-even in the impersonal manner you depict Him-is in "an incomprehensible & incoherent plane of existence" re us creatures. Romans 11:33-36: "Oh the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are His judgments and how unsearchable His ways!..."

[@mariolancellotti4583]

Seriously though, this movie has so many religious themes which weren't even touched on. This review was a missed opportunity.

[@jaafarbouh2956]

what themes ?

[@tylerrooney89]

Yo mama

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra Go easy on the "eastern gurus" esp. if you refer to Buddha and Krishna, or Lao Tzu. They provide very precise, even if from the Catholic point of view incomplete maps, that help navigate the reality that opens up when you shift from identifying consciousness with the intellect, emotive, or feeling (body awareness) centers to the soul which observes all three as sources of equally valuable info. I realize that prior to the "metanoia te" Jesus recommends, this may seem whacky jibberish.

[@roseannesullivan]

BTW, doesn't it go without saying that a movie is always going to be based on the religion of its makers? That being said, I walk away from most movies, especially ones that grapple with death and the meaning of life and love struck with the emptiness of a life when it is lived without knowledge that there is a God and that morality brings true freedom. On the other hand, most Catholic movies are not true works of art. Too earnest and single-layered ....

[@the_artisan]

I think it's fair to say that the film draws its power from exploring and bringing to life the soul as it appears in the Freudian worldview. However the Freudian view of the soul, as Jung saw, is rather one-sided, a rubbish bin of mercenary urges and sexual desires. Maybe Fr. Barron is saying that this worldview - that we are basically creatures of our urges - leaves out a large part of being human, with the quest for meaning etc. and this would make an excellent film - a Jungian Inception

[@KaiseRex42]

Cool critique! :) They should pay you to "do" these big hollywood films in! But I am alarmed. . .how come you get to see more films than me!!!! Doh! maybe its the American thing? In europe we have to wait unless its james bond or something like that . . .BTW love the Merton story. he was so cool too :)) hmmmmm

[@SkillaWillits]

The main chartecre

[@adastraperaspera99]

secularism is awesome :)

[@dmitriymazur]

Of course the movie is also about Cobb's inability to forgive himself. The relentless secularism can be explained by what motivates these criminals to do this - ambition, money, and return home. Yeah the idea of traveling inside one's subconscious and finding no God is unsettling for some. Actually the dreamers while inside their dreams could change and create and be like gods. Perhaps it is this idea that came from eastern religions that is unsettling.

[@robertmiller3623]

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[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra I don't mean to be critical of you personally, but as far as you "might have a slightly different archetype" then you are no longer talking about archetypes. Carl Jung states: "...the archetype is not just an inactive form, but a real force charged with a specific energy...it is not the personal human being who is making the statement, but the archetype speaking through him." The core idea of archetype is that it is in fact the same in each of us independent of time or location.

[@Blaseboniface]

@Nemesis000000 Remembering a good lunch does not result in the "Metanoia te" shift of consciousness from false personality, mistaking the intellect for one's core self, to the soul where one recognizes the intellect, the emotions, and the feelings of the body as tools of the "observer" within, the observer being the essential self or the soul. Communion - established by Christ - facilitates Christ's first command: "Metanoia te."

[@david521598]

I was disappointed in the movie as well but I would say it lacked any real moral message or struggle rather than call it "secular". I wasn't happy about paying ten bucks to see it. I was hoping it would be more like "The Time Traveler's Wife" which actually had my mind working.

[@n3hemiah]

@wordonfirevideo Just because it's a human invention doesn't mean you can toss it around willy-nilly and revise it. The universe will act as she will, and if math doesn't match up, then it's wrong. Physics is not an axiomatic system (although a lot of scientists regret this fact). This means that physical reality pre-exists mathematics. I can say, "you are a priest", and I've made a statement that is true and cannot be revised. But the truth of that statement depends entirely on your priesthood.

[@iamchrissanders]

More film analysis

[@AMElRaheb]

My issue with the film is not that its secular but that its amoral without any backlash. And for a movie about dreams, its not very dreamy. 2/4 Stars from me.

[@theknightoftheburningpestle]

It's not for purely mercenary reasons that they perform inception. Cobb is trying to get back to his children, but before he can do that he must confront a part of himself that he has buried deep down. Isn't that what one does during confession? Cobb literally confesses to Mal at the end of the film that the idea that killed her came from him. Even Ariadne says that the further the team goes into Fischer's mind the further they go into Cobb's. Why not treat films as individuals rather than bring God into every single one of them? God represents the illimitable yet it completely limits your criticism.

[@Blaseboniface]

@Nemesis000000 In ipso vita erat, in Him was life, et vita erat lux hominum, and the Life was the light of humans: et lux in tenebris lucet, and the light shineth in darkness, et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt, and the darkness did not comprehend it. The Intellect is dark until the Heart opens to God, then the Intellect recognizes that we are not God. We are contingent upon God who is noncontingent, then quotquot autem receprunt eum, dedit eis potestatem filios Dei fieri, but we are not God.

[@BrendanBeckett]

@DarthMambo When i say life is the source of life I don't mean that literally exactly... life just is. If you mean how it came about, well that's still slightly mysterious but we have a better scientific understand now than ever before. My DNA made me, you may see Gods fingerprints I see life itself.

[@n3hemiah]

@wordonfirevideo I am compelled to comment here. You are actually mistaken in this regard. The notion of mathematics as having an "absolute character" is a Platonic one which was finally shown to be false by Godel's Theorems. Numbers literally have no meaning outside of space-time: if mathematics was, in fact, an "axiomatic" system, it would either produce contradictions, or be hopelessly incomplete to discover truth. Math has been proven to be solely an a posteriori description of reality

[@dmitriymazur]

I think you misunderstood the movie Inception. I can see your point about "relentless secularism". I watched all of the Nolan's movies. His latest movie is just like other films he made. Inception is a crime film and it is a clever social commentary on the nature of crime. Cobb is a criminal but not by choice. In the world of inception extraction is a crime because it is defined so by the laws. The structure of the movie is no different from other crime movies like the Italian job.

[@BrendanBeckett]

@SmokiSounds I don't believe that any more than you do. I was replying to DarthMambo, using God as an idea rather than a real thing.

[@aVo_001]

@ezemdi I think he has done enough movie reviews to be honest. Unless it has some sort of point as to make a human person better in his religious life, be it a movie review or not, a priest should safeguard against wasting their time with frivolous pop culture analysis.