Worf Proposes to Make Kahless Emperor (TNG: Rightful Heir)

[@jedsithor]

It's a great irony of ironies that the true Kahless is Worf. A man raised by humans, he embodies the spirit of Kahless more than anyone. He acts as Klingons should, his honour is undisputed, he sacrifices his name for the sake of the Empire, defeats the Chancellor in single combat and recognises that another is better suited to lead. Worf is Kahless reborn.

[@giovannibarbato4558]

Gowron Is what Klingons are, Worf Is what Klingons should be.

[@bobbyshaddoe3004]

SF Debris talked about the difference between Horizontal Honor and Vertical Honor, as well as External Honor and Internal Honor. Klingons as a society often have a great deal of External Honor with regards to how they are viewed by others, Worf and even Martok possess a great deal of Internal Honor, Worf perhaps more so. He was truly an honorable man even at a time when his own people claimed that he had no honor. scenes like this showcase why Worf is so beloved as a character and why Michael Dorn became such a mainstay of the franchise even after TNG left the airwaves. his character found new life on DS9 and it provided him with many great opportunities to explore the character in a different setting, and was a beneficial figure during the Dominion War.

[@Boa_Omega]

Spoilers he returned for Picard. Nothing wrong with a spiritual leader if they support the political rulers right to rule. They can impart a seal on said ruler that makes them even more legitimate in the eyes of the people. Together they can shape a society. It has worked before. Wether for benevolent or malevolent motives. Gowron does not care to rule on matters of religious doctrine. Kahless cares nothing about political squabbles. Each is Supreme in his area. Gowron can get the spiritual blessings for war or peace. Kahless shapes how the people live it. Everybody wins. A win - win scenario is not common enough now.

[@randomrazr]

so what ever happedn to the clone kahless. executed?

[@SeizureGman]

I think living under humans prob helped cause he was brought up only knowing his romantic view that his people hold honour above all else and not seeing the rot and corruption that is rife within the society he came to see Klingon society as honourable right to the core. This meant when he saw corruption that was rife within the higher pillars of Klingon society he was shocked

[@GrumpyBearRawr]

Worf the King maker. Kept Duras in power then took him out. Put Gowron in power then took him out. Installed Kahless as a figurehead. Tried out being Emperor himself before realizing he had better things to do. Then he put Martok in power.

[@jimjam51075]

Honestly, it turns out Worf is the one holding the reins of power the entire time. He's just smart enough not to keep his head on the chopping block (very long) while doing so.

[@Nanosuit37]

Well said.

[@gabelogan5877]

**Chancellor, not Emperor. But great observation.

[@carlzerris6566]

'Like many of our people they need something to believe in' I like to think that worf added 'cause lets face it your trash' in his head

[@cbertain1]

This was one of my favorite scenes of the series. Michael Dorn gave such a wise argument.

[@spartybrearly7221]

Emperor Kahless quickly became an irrelevance.

[@mrbojangles8133]

they could have done more with this storyline than they actually did

[@paulrasmussen8953]

STO redeemed him

[@spartybrearly7221]

@@mrbojangles8133 Agreed. The character should have featured more than this one episode.

[@roystonlodge]

...and Emperor Kahless was never heard from again.

[@jackofclubz]

yeah but he gave Chancelor Gawron his blessing to fight the Dominion head first.

[@xxlCortez]

@@jackofclubz He also denounced the war against Cardassia yet Gowron didn't care. So his blessing means nothing.

[@jwiese100]

Korath made him a Lukara clone and he has left his room since

[@Commanderziff]

... and I think all that came of this was one line from Worf about how Emperor Kahless denounced the sneak attack war with the Cardassians. Which of course accomplished absolutely nothing. After looking it up, apparently he was mentioned by Kurn as he told Worf about their house's banishment from the council, and Kor mentioned how useless of a figurehead he was once.

[@diosoth]

This. The episode meant nothing because they barely acknowledged it. Gowron still ruled & made all the decisions. This has been a problem with Trek though as they'd have to pay writers if they bring back characters or plots so they often abandoned them. Lower Decks might eventually bring it up as they're good at digging up such things the series left behind afterwards.

[@NovaHessia]

@@diosoth I mean, it sounds realistic to me. Worf attempted a political maneouvre, and it failed. They did acknowledge this episode and its solution - but not every solution they come up with on Star Trek will work out in the end.

[@rjframe4410]

@@diosoth STO brought this up, in Star trek online Kahless dies after wounding an Iconian and goes down as a hero. He did what he was ment to do, be a legend.

[@TheMrPeteChannel]

​@@diosothThe Kahless character was created in TOS so CBS/Paramount or what the Fudge they are called now have all creative rights.

[@lucasbachmann]

3:00 Worf convinces Gowron that their relationship is purely transactional. Which makes Gowron sad.

[@jimjam51075]

I saw his little frown this time and this comment made me laugh.

[@ninegearcrow]

I love how Dorn throws the Gowron Eyes back at O'Reilly for a brief second in that scene. It shows that Worf really would meet Gowron at his level if it truly came to war.

[@realmetatron]

Since souls are a fact in the Star Trek universe, they are all forgetting they are not their bodies but souls. Therefore, once a copy of Kahless' original body had been made, it is clear that the soul of Kahless would choose to incarnate in said body once it was provided. And so, without anyone realizing it, they are in fact dealing with the real Kahless.

[@LordZontar]

That was a story element of the 1962 science fiction movie Creation Of The Humanoids.

[@alejandroyava]

So... he created the Klingon Pope.

[@fawziekefli2273]

When Kahless became Kahmore.

[@jackofclubz]

Theeeeeeeeeeeeeeee space pope!

[@kennykiller]

IIIIIS THE SPACE POPE REPTILIAN?!

[@ultramaximusreviews]

And we never see him again

[@Jon-u5j8u]

Knowing what happens in DS9, watching every interaction between Worf and Gowron has now become unintentionally funny.

[@wedgeantillies66]

And worf yet again saves the empire from itself by putting forward a compromise that preserves the status quo as well as including and making khaless, an unifying and spiritual force within Klingon society,

[@karlthomas2360]

A very moving scene.

[@marcanders9611]

In this scene alone, Worf becomes the enemy of Klingon Chancellor gowron

[@blakes8901]

the Klingon Pope

[@greyofpta5305]

At the end there I'm pretty sure Gowron said "Oh for crying out loud!" Also, how did that whole 'leading our people with honor 'thing work out? Oh right. The Klingons went to war with the Federation...again, in a war so stupid even the Organians noped out of it.

[@1AstralKing]

I mean, as wars between the UFP and Klingon Empire go, it was kind of lame…. A few months? A year, maybe? And since neither side really wanted it [except Gowron] they didn’t really put all that much effort into it.

[@edwarddeguzman3258]

@@1AstralKing and the Martok changling

[@DerekBurns-qe1xo]

THIS 'KAHLESS' IS THE KLINGON LEADER IN BIRTH OF THE FEDERATION!!!!

[@kennykiller]

Lol that explains it I'm 39 and I swear a mate lent us that game when I was 14 or so hadn't seen enough TNG then to even recognise the leader guy.

[@RikerLovesWorf]

It’s weird for a show that portrays the federation as being so anti-fascist and communist to have one of its officers directly advocate for a hereditary monarchy, even if it’s merely ceremonial

[@jokerz7936]

The Federation was more socialist than communist. In TOS the Klingons even represented the Soviet Union and was the bad guys. As for this Kahless even here he's a figurehead and will have no power.

[@jamesboulger8705]

This is not true. The federation is most strongly in support of non-involvement, and that people come to their own development naturally.

[@666mengel]

If we could clone Jesus from his blood, would that be a real Jesus, or not? Would people follow him again?

[@bigcat5348]

Well no, scientifically as well as theologically speaking he would only be a clone of Christ's human body. The resultant man would have his own distinct *human* soul, and hence would not be the Son of God, but rather a human person. He would be a person as ordinary and imperfect as any other human (save the Blessed Virgin). It so happens that Church teaching actually forbids human cloning for reasons of human dignity. Like, identical twins are don't have the "same soul", and a clone is essentially an artificial twin, so no, a clone of Jesus would not have any divine nature.

[@666mengel]

@bigcat5348 If the Lord provided Divine Power to Original Jesus, why cant his clone possess the same qualities?? The same as in that Startrek Episode, I see a huge Shism and even religious violence , if the Jesus clone comes before us.

[@bigcat5348]

@@666mengel There wouldn't be any reason for a second Incarnation. Christ already has a human body, which right now is in Heaven with the Father. He doesn't need a second body. It might be *theoretically* possible that Christ could come again in a second body, but there's no point in doing so. Like, the reason why Christ can perform miracles is not because He was "given divine power" as if he is like any other prophet or saint; it's because He is literally the second Person of the Trinity. He's God. Even a hypothetical clone of Jesus given power to perform miracles would not have the same moral perfection as Christ Himself. He would be only as holy as, say, Moses or St. Paul.

[@666mengel]

@bigcat5348 The Catholic Church teaches that science and faith are not contradictory and even work well together. The Bible does talk about the 2nd Coming, so if the science helps in that event, would you deny the authenticity of the Savior??

[@bigcat5348]

@@666mengel I'm pretty sure by now that you're a troll (especially given your username). I never said anything even remotely close to "science and faith are contradictory" lmfao. And my whole point is that a clone of Jesus is not the Saviour any more then a clone is the same person as the original. The Second Coming is not something that human science is going to bring about; it can't be predicted or instigated by human activity; it will happen at a time ordained by God alone. The Second Coming just means that Christ will return from Heaven to judge the world at the end; it doesn't mean there will be a "second Jesus". "Cloning Jesus" is a pointless, unethical, and wholly misguided endeavour.

[@Nitsua1201]

Anybody know why this didn't carry over into DS9?

[@xxxdumbwordstupidnumberxxx4844]

I think he was mentioned, but that was about it. After all, he was just a figurehead.

[@lucasbachmann]

In a very small way it did. Figurehead Emperor Kahless condemned the invasion of Cardassia by Gowron. But in-universe I'd assume it was a sensitive subject and Kahless would be much safer if he stayed in a monastery.

[@shiningarmor2838]

It did. In "The Way of the Warrior", Emperor Kahless is one of the people who refuses to answer Worf's calls.

[@SantomPh]

The Emperor is a ceremonial head of state, he doesn't even live on the homeworld. People saw him as a sort of religious leader rather than a political one. Gowron had all the power and thus only his word was to be taken. Worf did spend time at the monastery world before joining DS9 so there was plenty of time to connect. When Worf falls into dishonor again the new Kahless won't even take his calls. Only Kor the Dahar Master actually salutes Worf until the real Martok returns. The Emperor is not significant at all in DS9, he doesn't even attend the peace treaty ceremony on Bajor

[@oldtwinsna8347]

More also carried forward with the episode where Worf and Kor go to find Kahless' legendary bat'leth plundered by the Hurq long ago. We learned that the Emperor by this time had very little influence amongst the people, and that even if the sword was returned to the Emperor it still would not be enough for him to have any influence - he had become that weak by then.

[@ianmangham4570]

Duras was the dude 👌 😅 🤠

[@GGGritzer]

Gowron deserved a better end in DS9. Still disappointed with bad storytelling, how they offed him. The character was worthy of a better exit.

[@HaiNguyen-ii6bx]

Put the original sword in the hands of the new emperor..... and see the ???