World of Warships- Just What The Hell Is This Line Supposed To Be? (IJN Battlecruisers)

Hey guys! I finally got through the Japanese BC line, while the Bungo is a satisfying T10 BC, the line as a whole is just...odd. Enjoy!
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Outro Music: Stranger Think- C418

[@undertakernumberone1]

What also feels weird about the line: Why didn't they move Amagi into the BC line, it is a BC after all, and added Tosa as BB?

[@sealordmountbatten]

There’s still several BCs in the BB like for some reason

[@charleslarrivee2908]

THIS. WG seems to have been trying its hardest to avoid giving us Tosa, like Johnston or the other two Iowas.

[@cru24d3r]

*cough* Kongo *cough*

[@undertakernumberone1]

@@sealordmountbatten really, they should'Ve done a whole BC line (with AMagi) instead of another of those "final 3 ships" splits.

[@bobbyjones9081]

Because if they moved Amagi then no one would have to buy the new tier 8 in early release.

[@sgrb387]

So bongo, bongo, bongo, I don't want to leave the congo, oh no no no no no Bingo, bango, bungo, I'm so happy in the jungle, I refuse to go

[@JohnsRandomVids_US]

Frank Sinatra will live rent-free in my head forever and I'm here for it.

[@ThemightyEnterprise]

Oh Kongo Kongo Kongo I cheated on you with the bungo

[@austinneo4023]

ALright, hear me out, Cowa-Bungo secondary build. Yes, the HP is not good, however she has the new highest concealment of the techline battleships, topping at 12.1km. Her secondaries are the same ones from the Satsuma, subsequently being altered Harugumo guns, trading a bit of range for damage maxing at 11km. Mix that with the conceal and you get a Karl Johan situation where as soon as you are detected, you're basically already in range. Would this be ideal? Probably not, you got some 32mm armor to bounce shells, and the citadel is quite low, it's just that HP pool is quite low... Still a funny concept though.

[@teddrewflack400]

If you can stay away from the real heavy hitters , this build works pretty well I’ve found , flames ahoy .

[@humphrey09applebee61]

At tier 10 secondaries that only light fires are fricking useless you need that 32mm pen that is why the Schlieffen is so good. I do own a Karl Johan and its only redeeming factor are the torps. They are quiet good.

[@goodless]

PQs reviews showed that they are actually good HE spammers, though that is not what they were initially advertised to be.

[@sealordmountbatten]

I tried that with the TVIII and it did perform better, but found AP to be the way with the Bungo

[@mrtickles2129]

I got the tier 8 and discovered that at long range against nose ships in the HE is great, really tight groupings with the spotter. AP is really reserved for broadside CLs and CAs at mid to close and some weaker sided BBs. I have worked my way up to Bungo and my view is much the same; tight HE, standard AP. Also, kiting. All the time.

[@rjcolombe]

So wait, there's a accuracy boost with the spotter plane active? I'm just starting on working through Nagato again towards Yumihari, after about a year away from the game. Anything else i should know about them?

[@TheKCaryer]

Luv your analysis Sea Lord. I agree that the speed is a real issue for this Battle Cruiser line and the AP is very disappointing. I feel more confident flinging HP out of the mains and just collect lower, but more consistent damage and wreck some AA and 2ndaires.

[@johnhooton8299]

Totally forgot they were being fully released with this update.

[@FltCaptAlan]

Well they do match the top speed of the real steel IJN battlecruisers, Amagi and Kongo, so I wouldn't get on them for their speed, and compared to Izumo and Yamato (and Kaga, a Tosa Class) they are a little faster

[@goodless]

But Tsurugi and Daisen are both at 35 kts at Tier 9.

[@vahngaming7107]

Instead of the IJN BC its better to grind the UK BC, these IJN ones are out classed in everyway.

[@sealordmountbatten]

But these aren’t real steel ships. Why limit them to 31kts?

[@cringe_lord5762]

​@@sealordmountbatten wg just sugar coat it to much, it's just basically long range HE spammer BB, AP is good at medium range

[@HomelessEmperor-ps4gs]

@@sealordmountbatten The designs were designed for 30 knots... But maybe with engine boost, these would be fast enough

[@joehiggins6194]

I have the T 8 and not my type and still thinking if I should or shouldn't grind out the others!

[@Disk-yo4hw]

from one game (yes i know , i should have more games played in it) , i can say the spred of the shell hit were you want bot horizontal and vertical

[@jlo8863]

30 kn speed is correct spec according to IJN Blue print which be designed post WW1. Bungo AP salvo alpha is higher than St. Vincent, AP's pen at 18 km very similar to Montana

[@randyscraft]

yer but subs doing 40Knots underwater in the 1940's/50's is BS.

[@_Fulgur_]

as an anime fan i can only think of bungou stray dogs when i see the name bungo. anyways i feel the only reason that these are called battlecruisers is cause of weaker armor, nothing else it seems like.

[@mysticdragonwolf89]

While yes supposed to be battlecruisers, it is a tier ten - most of those barely break 30 knots so the Bungo is in good company

[@lcmattern]

Totally agree here. While yes, the schlieffen breaks 34 knots, the d-memes barely break 33 knots. Dont see why it should go faster than cruisers with more hp/armor/guns. That is just asking for power creep. I think it's in a relatively good place.

[@cap007a1]

Super accurate gun platforms.

[@helekachopter696]

As a new player I tried em and really enjoyed em

[@ted5567]

Nice we want players.

[@Lt_Koro]

@@ted5567 yea so we can hide the old/good players leaving

[@stazbloodlad339]

Most bbs at tier 10 go around 30, not 32 knots... some are even slower. Vermont, yami, ohio, monty.

[@andyaweebphysicist]

Getting bounces on slightly angled battleships, sounds like typical German BBs to me.😂

[@josephsmith2183]

What was the puzzle in the Santa's gifts screen?

[@popeye9177]

Flamu has a video where he shows us. In the comments is a description.

[@andre0000000007]

i'm thinking the italian line could use the precision spotter planes.

[@jrussel2456]

have you tryed He with these i dont have them yet so i dont know maybe its a He spammer the stat does not say it but you never know

[@artic6015]

I agree these ships need a buff to the speed, 34 knots should be a minimum. I like playing the tier 9 Yumihari, except for the slow speed.

[@grzegorzkapica7930]

I just had a very strange DM game. I have no idea, why I got 3,2k base XP. Want the replay?

[@ognscully5331]

HMS Hood is a battle cruiser she only goes 31 knots

[@HitmannActual]

I don't know how to play these yet. Half of me thinks it's all about pushing the flanks and spreading the LOIN. the other half wants to cruise the middle and just GOON. i don't quite know how to best build the commander, i mean, he's pretty steadfast as it is, but if a DD drops from nowhere you know he'll SPAFF. I reckon you just need to hold on to mid game with no damage, then try and push the GUNT as hard as you can. Unless there are CVs in the top cap, then forget it!

[@tomduke1297]

as i understand it, all these sacrifices are for the yamato accuracy + the accuracy consumable.

[@fakeaccount273]

But why woundt you just play Yamato then?

[@tomduke1297]

@@fakeaccount273well, you can. yamato isnt going anywhere. new ships are just for fun.

[@sealordmountbatten]

The TVIII does most certainly not have Yammy accuracy

[@tomduke1297]

@@sealordmountbatten i dont doubt that, it is still one of the most accurate T8 BB in the game, with the highest sigma and has that precision spotter on top of that.

[@quor2243]

Looks like a tossed in line with no thought, just for those that already have everything and call it new.

[@gstormcz]

It has at least really great looking perma camo from collection. WG art dept made good job again. Finally who wants another St.Vincent? It seems WG was really cautious here, xd.

[@davidwhitfield6025]

Frankly I think Wargaming should take a breath and recalibrate the whole game back to realistic speeds (which granted would probably see the submarines disappear rather quickly as they would never keep up but I doubt there would be much wailing over that). This is the problem with all these fictitious ships and the speeds they can obtain. Look at the real battle cruisers and their speeds: HMS Hood - Max 31 kts HMS Renown - Max 31 kts KMS Mackensen - Max 28 Kts USS Alaska - Max 33 kts The Japanese proposed Design B-65 - expected max 33 kts. So these Japanese Battlecruisers are fitting this speed capability. Cruisers should be a little faster as they are lighter than battlecruisers. I doubt, and I have not checked, that any heavy cruiser in the world has gone faster that 35 kts (I am happy to accept correction). I mean the fastest Destroyer ever built and run is the USS Zumwalt which does 45.25 kts but most destroyers built have max speeds between 30 and 40 kts (The French Le Terrible admittedly being able to reach 42 kts). USS Arleigh Burke probably the best destroyer currently around only does 30 kts. Yes this is a game but the creep is reaching ridiculous levels. Complaining about a ship going at the speed it would "realistically" have reached seems to me a little silly especially as the comparable "real" Battlecruisers are being held to their roughly proper speed maxes in game (ignoring speed flags).

[@undertakernumberone1]

"KMS Mackensen"? First of all, post WWI german ships didn't have a prefix. Second, Mackensen being a WWI BC would be "SMS Mackensen"

[@davidwhitfield6025]

@@undertakernumberone1 apologies. You are correct SMS Mackensen.

[@OllieVK]

Glass cannon. Watch Potato Quality.

[@lordlenny2009]

82k hp for backline ships is still to much if you compare it to the CC BC like schielffen who need to get close for max potential but only has 74k or so

[@booch9109]

Does this game have like over 600 ships? Think about that.

[@andrasekmate9468]

Japanese BBs are like my a-a class regardless of archetype

[@QALibrary]

Why did they not give these group of ships a speed boost?

[@utimas1696]

I see the Yumihari and Adatara as bigger Kongos, and Bungo (Nice name Wargaming) as a bigger Amagi

[@bcfuerst]

Bungo is the name of a Japanese province.

[@chadbat4205]

豊後県 probably

[@malguskerensky]

Going to disagree, they punch hard and can hit at long range. One knot speed difference is not an issue compared to BBs in general. Yeah they can get slapped but the game is mostly about positioning anyway.

[@bidzej86]

Those ships have just been released, and they already feel power crept. Why would I take any of them into battle over the original line?

[@ted5567]

But they hit the target? Or hit and miss?

[@sealordmountbatten]

The Bungo is pretty darn good, the Adatara is ok, the TVIII is pain

[@TKDforME1]

Have not free xpd it yet. I’m in no hurry.

[@kaollachan]

only hjave the T8 for now, will do the line but yea ,didn t heard anything good about it. slow, i thought battle cruiser were more close combat than sniper. shell are just not good, i red somewhere on reddit weeks ago that because they use WW1 shell or older shell than other IJN BB . but still a let down, like a lot of the recent new line to me... at lest they still have HE AND AP XD

[@humphrey09applebee61]

The japanese Yumihari in Asymetrtic Battles is a wet noodle it hits really really bad. I mean you sometimes fight tier 6 and still you perform bad. Not making citadels is my biggest issue, it is not fast either. Oh and your spotter plane which should give you super accuracy does nothing.....

[@pegasusted2504]

I saw PQ 2 salvo a super-carrier with the Bungo lol. If you hit, with the plane boost, you can get between 40k and 60k in a salvo :~) Can't wait to get it.

[@sardaukerlegion]

Fast compared to Yamato. The dumb part is another: why should Japan use 2 nearly similar calibers (457 and 460 mm)?

[@BestShifty]

Because this is a video game with a certain game mechanic called overmatch

[@faynk.6247]

@@BestShiftyWG: we just make this shit up. Japan during WW2 NEVER use the metric system like USA so 457mm is just straight up fantasy

[@tsu7206]

Balancing. I don't think that an hyper accurate BB (with Satsuma F button as spotting plane and excellent concealment) with 32mm overmatch is a good idea for the game. Satsuma is already cancerous by preventing any push and we don't need a T10 one.

[@ifax1245]

"slow"..?

[@pickeljarsforhillary102]

Perpetual Kongo's.

[@ArterialCanine]

AP on Iwami and Daisen are the same basically they are shite :(

[@winstonedwards2014]

These look and feel like Kongo+ (one + for each tier above Kongo). Not to say it's a bad thing, but just moreso how they play.

[@jmiller475]

If they hit

[@tsuaririndoku]

Still can’t wrap my head around why Japanese BC have 457 instead of 460. As 460 were alrd exist, I mean Yamato is a good example. And most BC design from the blue prints are designed to either fit for 410s or 460s. Plus Amagi exist why did they refuse to add Tosa as a replacement for Amagi? Tosa have the same turret layout as Amagi so making a model of Tosa should not be very difficult to do so. Plenty of Blueprints and Drawings out there to make it clear. Amagi was planned to be a BC. You can tell why her Armor is actually quite weak for a Tier VIII BBs. People tries to defend WG and said Amagi in WOWs are alrd have Fast BB refit. That’s not true, Amagi never have any plan to convert itself from BC to BB. Somepeople said Kongo should be also move into this line too. Now, I’m somewhat agree on this but Kongo historically alrd converted into Fast Battleships. If you want to make Kongo as BC maybe add Kirishima as a BC version of Kongo. Anyways, I’m not quite mad at Bungo line but jt’s really pisses me off when WG using 457mm on a nation that have 460mm as their based 18 ich guns. Japanese uses Metric systems not Imperial Systems. So 457 never make anysense.

[@tahiribnmohammad5410]

32mm OM plus accuracy would make them too good

[@tsuaririndoku]

@@tahiribnmohammad5410That’s simple fix. They can nerf Amagi 32mm to 27mm. Dispersion is fine with Dead Eye Spotter. Amagi is not the most accurate BB in Tier VIII anyways. And who will replaced Amagi? Tosa Class Battleship.

[@wazzup2014]

Got yumi and ada early. only play yumi in operations, ada doesn't really hold alot of sway over games but those 457's are decent esp for t9, bungo is a hot mess. Iwami looking better and better.

[@nozyspy4967]

I cant understand the accuracy on this ship. I still cant hit a damn thing with it. The shells seem really floaty and slow and constantly fall short.

[@Lt_Koro]

Where is your argument again for WG starting to push back on the passive meta with new additions? These ships are literally tailor made for the passive shit show meta.

[@sealordmountbatten]

Three ships made for the passive meta vs the slew of secondary/brawling ships we’ve gotten recently

[@LordMephiston40k]

So yeah the Yamato line is still better.

[@seanduncantx]

Oh god I’m in this video

[@damienfiche2592]

It is pronouned "Boon-go" - It is named after a Japanese providence.

[@pranavshinde4472]

Bungo it is!!!

[@tonepilot]

More clear evidence that WG does not like BBs and loves subs and CVs.

[@Darthspike88]

Its IJN you know wargaming, every time a IJN its good at something it needs to be shit at all the rest of things.

[@marvelous5038]

I don’t see why all the hate, these are very good ships and my first game in bungo I got almost up to 300k

[@xzarial6652]

Wow! Reading some of the toxic comments on here is painful! Especially when you are expressing your thoughts and opinions on the line as a whole and individually as I understood it! These internet keyboard hating people need to get a life and appreciate all the hard work and dedication that you supply us with your videos and reviews! From me it’s a big thanks and keep up the great work sir! ❤

[@odinsrensen7460]

You're the only one I've seen writing anything "keyboard warrior"-like.

[@seanduncantx]

Hi, friend neighborhood Zao player here. GG and thanks for slapping the shit out of my health at about 8:22. Good to know that that was just 5 pens and not any cit’s, I had thought you had managed to cit me from the front like that and was terrified.

[@Nick-wh4jt]

Get mental help

[@user-cw1lk7he2n]

Battlecruisers are actually fast battleships, even the creator of this concept, Fisher, also pointed out this. With 1920s standards 30kts is fast enough for a capital ship. IMO maybe WG just wanna emphasize the 3 ships of this line are designed in the 1920s, so worse AP shells are given. But they apparently forget the fact that their modelling is always infamously historical-inaccurate when it comes to details🤣Not only the gun calibers and the turrent/armour/AA-set layouts, even the expression “the No.13 Battlecruiser” for Adatara in game is proven a misinformation-- the proper ones should be "the No.8 Battlecruiser"(starting from Hiei as the 1st Japanese domestic BC), or "the No.13 capital ship"(starting from Nagato in the new Hachi-Hachi shipbuilding project).

[@TheJuggtron]

Battlecruisers are more defined by their lineage from armoured cruisers. The concepts merged in the 20s and 30s more due to the treaty limitations and need for versatility. Fast battleships are their own thing, but the lines are VERY blurry :)

[@user-cw1lk7he2n]

That's it, from a tactical perspective BC is the successor of ACRs indeed.@@TheJuggtron

[@Nick-wh4jt]

No. Just no. Battlecruisers are cruisers with 283mm+ or 11.1in+ guns which are battleship calibre. They are NOT fast battleships, they are cruisers with a bigger armament. The concept of a fast battleship is nothing even close to what you've claimed, Iowa Class battleships are what's classified as a fast battleship class they're not even similar.

[@Nick-wh4jt]

@@user-cw1lk7he2n And battlecruisers are a modern concept they are not "the successor of ACR's from a tactical perspective" armoured cruisers/super cruisers are a completely different thing. Almost the opposite of a battlecruiser in that they have cruiser calibre guns with armoured or iron clad protection. Where do you get your information from?

[@user-cw1lk7he2n]

You call a series of capital ships created in 1910s of at least 20000 tons "cruisers"? Guess you are just confused about the difference between "modern" large cruisers(for '30s and '40s) and BCs under their original definitions. For strategy reasons BCs, fast battleships and large cruisers plays in a similar role, but they can be differed in their builders' specific requirements. And, the compromise on armour thickness for BCs are not because of their "cruiser definition", but just for limitations from budgets and building time acquired. Any navy able to build such fast capital ships would improve their protection level if budgets allowed, even the British Navy who is generally considered to weaken BCs' protection, if you have studied the design changes and evolutions of British BCs since Admiral Class. In short, the generally-believed protection weakness is NOT the reason you think they are cruisers. @@Nick-wh4jt

[@medstud]

Where the fuck do you find tier IX/X battles with real humans where half of them are giving you broadside most of the game?! I'm tier 7 and everybody is under smoke behind an island.....

[@0neLoneClone]

What are your thoughts on then giving out the Yamato and 15 days premium for free to people who haven't played for 30 days. And the rest of us a box and 5 days premium?

[@bladesideentertainment7002]

31 knots is fast, getting too used with fictional crap?

[@thejamppa]

They are weaker variant of Japanese BB. They are as fast japanese BB with weaker armor and spotter gimmick is just... poor. I hate the tier 8 Yumihara with passion. 8x 410's. HE works but AP usually shatters or doesn't pen. And since gimmick is spotter makes it more accurate Tier 8 without spotter is unreliable. Bungo is... much more playable. You get overmatch and one extra turret.

[@jimholmes5395]

35 knots??? Seriously????? Look at the other capital ships. I think you need to be a little more realistic on that, as does WG concerning the laws of physics.

[@Kasyx]

Man stop crying. You have 25km guns with option to extend it. You dont need to go anywhere!

[@odinsrensen7460]

Potato Quality: Goes on a whole tech-line journey of discovery to learn the secret truth that for the Bungo line HE is king. Sea Lord a month later: Didn't seem to get the memo and fires exclusively AP. Why are professional WOWsers so opposed to firing HE in battleships? Even against destroyers, it's just all AP. I don't get it.

[@spiritofnex]

I mean, PQ is unicum, and tends to understand the intricacies of the ships, and figuring out how to best use them. Not to put Sealord down, but he's an overall average player, who tends to complain about ships he doesn't know how to play correctly. The Bungo line are snipers, and should be played as such when using AP.

[@tsuaririndoku]

Because it is the rules of the WOWs since the CBT era. Battleships like Yamato can delete a tier X DD with an AP salvo back then combine as back then commander skills are very limited. Because they need to use 2 skills on Detection indicator. Yes, back then you don’t get a detection warning. You have to get it from captain skills. And back then, there were 5 rows and only maximum of 12 points. Means that, Battleships expert loader skill is not necessary back then. And it was completely waste of time to change shells. Lots of people have this habit up to this day. Back then, AP also works differently. AP during CBT have almost zero bounces on them which making them pen at any angles. Plus citadel were quite common back then too. Especially on American BBs where they have Citadels extremely high above water (more than Yamato). Plus back then before British BBs even exist. Using HE as a battleship is a sign of Fresh Meat. As HE does worse than AP as a BBb ack then. That’s why people still stuck with AP only on BBs. The other reason is big damage, AP does citadel damage quite often than HE do.

[@Virgilfinnatell]

At first AP was so much better that there was little to no point in switching. However, I do use HE in non-RN BBs in certain situations, such as against a DD or an angled target I cannot overmatch. Some ships more than others obviously. Vermont and her tech line are the only ships that I stick to AP entirely because of their bad reload. Yamato and Satsuma as well due to their overmatch.

[@odinsrensen7460]

@@Virgilfinnatell Okay, that made more sense. Thanks for elucidating.

[@Nick-wh4jt]

The new Japanese tech line are not battleships. Amagi Class isn't even a battleship. Can people not get it through their thick skulls

[@Rizzit]

ship was so boring i couldnt watch the video longer than 2 mins

[@EmirKATIRCI]

it seems someone had a brain-fart about what's going on... Did you even check the grouping of your shots? I've been playing this game since beta and I've yet to see any ship have this close grouping with this big of a caliber, this many guns and do it consistently. What are you even talking about the dispersion? Other than you taking shots at bow-in targets or taking bad aim, out of 10 guns this ship is hitting average 6 shells every time in 20/secs with 10k or more dmg in AP and it is much more in HE! Show me another BB class that performs as such with this big of guns. You need a reality check. If they gave this ship what you're asking for it will be burning or blowing ships left and right and you'll be asking for it to be nerfed more than you asked for thunderer to be nerfed.

[@sealordmountbatten]

The Bungo itself is good. However the grind leading up to it, not so much, keep in mind I’m talking about the line as a whole here, the TVIII was just miserable with its accuracy and AP performance. The Bungo fixes that by just have more guns that are larger. My main issue with Bungo is that it’s slow, my issues with the T8 is that it’s inaccurate, has poor AP, only has 8 16inch guns, and it’s slow.

[@wotnariya3175]

@@sealordmountbatten Well nothing new here that the T8/9 of a new line is dogshit. Has been that for the last couple of years -> just to force people to skip straight to the T10.

[@mulletoutdooradventures6286]

Aren't you a self proclaimed historian? How do you not know what battlecruisers are as they are in the real world? Cause that's what these are. Get a tissue noodle

[@sealordmountbatten]

Keep in mind I’m mostly talking about the battlecruiser formula in game, not in real life.

[@mulletoutdooradventures6286]

@@sealordmountbatten see that's the thing. This IS based on a design from real life. And every country back then had a different idea of what a "battlecruiser" is and what it would be used for. If they made every ship equalish as you want then what's the point. They are good for something, obviously not your style of play so maybe do something different. Worst case load up he and hide and flame destroyers

[@sealordmountbatten]

@@mulletoutdooradventures6286 well keep in mind too that we have irl designs that are FAR removed from their original specs like the Georgia. I don’t see why they couldn’t boost the speed by a couple knots or even given it a speed boost for the sake of balance

[@miked815]

31.5 isnt slow for a bb either.... it may not be a kleber in speed but 31.5 is no slouch

[@randyscraft]

Yer but try catching a 4501 Sub underwater in a Kleber without speed boost = dead.