Worst House Rules: Kill Stealing

[@Keovar]

Besides the problem of setting up a competition in a cooperative game, it also promotes the idea that killing is the only accepted resolution to conflict.

[@SquawkMonk]

💯. In one game I'm playing currently, our party is almost completely stealth or magic oriented (I'm a shadow monk, plus an arcane trickster, a bladesinger, a spore druid and a chrono mage). It's a completely ridiculous party and we consistently confound our DM with the encounters he designs; circumventing them entirely, somehow combining encounters, just all kinds of shenanigans. That rule simply wouldn't make sense in that game. I'd play a game like that once, just for the experience, but I don't think it'd be my cup of tea.

[@bogella2225]

I do the BG method of resolving conflict. If you can talk your way out of a fight or grab the object without getting noticed you get the XP as if you had the fight

[@Wh173c0c0]

My pacifist battlefield controller Bard: "Well, guess I'm useless." Seriously, who would actually want this rule? I tend to award XP whether players kill, KO, incapacitate, or otherwise rout an encounter. Validating all playstyles and character options makes for more fun and encourages group cooperation. I'm here to run a fun game that my players will talk about for a long time to come, not encourage petty arguments and adversarial gameplay.

[@RicoCorreia]

12 yrs(cronological or mental) old edgelord Who think he is the main chacarcter

[@austinn5355]

Milestone > XP

[@ZarHakkar]

Disagree

[@zero11010]

I don’t agree with this. I think each experience should grant XP. Other systems do this really well. 4E had clear rules for granting XP for skill checks (which means a whole campaign could be done without combat). 4E also had clear XP for traps … 5E may have trap XP … can’t remember. It’s common where talking your way out of a fight would grant just as much XP as the fight itself. But, more non combat situations should grant XP. If you do milestone based XP you are LITERALLY refusing to reward some aspects of the game. At the core you don’t care about the details and just reward that milestone. If the players get a level of experience when they get to the necromancer’s castle … well … what did they do on the way there? Did they stop for a plot hook and help a village? That isn’t worth a whole level … but it’s something. Or, did they skip the village … and they get just as much XP for arriving at that castle … If you break down milestone XP for every little thing the players do to make it granular enough to reward them for … playing then You’re recreating standard experience points.

[@AngelicBeatdown]

@@zero11010Yea, they get XP for going to the castle because that is big enough of an event for that table to award XP. Disconnect yourself from the fact that your table is not like other tables lol

[@zero11010]

@@AngelicBeatdown awww. You ok? I said what my preference was and you seem to feel attacked. You’ll be all right.

[@Three_Tiny_Robots]

I use Inspiration as XP. Earn and spend 5× your current character level Inspiration to level up. DM can use Milestones as well, and players can roll over any spent Inspiration for the next level. I award Inspiration for role-play, teamwork, clever ideas, and working towards the character's personal goals. My PCs have hit level 5 using this method and so far it's working exactly how I wanted it to. 🙂

[@cassandrawasright1481]

What kind of person looks at D&D and says "this needs to be more like the infamously toxic and friendship ruining game, League of Legends?"

[@arlibrarian]

Sounds like a good house rule if you have too many friends.

[@katlicks]

I usually offer support, lots of "Set them up" for others to knock them down, putting pressure on enemies to keep them where others need them. I'd hate this rule because I'd either rarely get it, or I'd feel bad hogging the experience. Being a "Team" and working together is the experience.

[@lordsergal8783]

The way one of the DM's in my group that uses XP deals with it is by having xp awarded to all who fought in the encounter, so someone who ends up cut off from the group or ambushed while scouting ahead will get a reward for surviving what was likely an encounter meant for the whole party.

[@flameofmage1099]

If youre going to do this (please for tye love of God don't) at tye very least havevan assist mechanic, where everyone who helps gets XP. So if Cleric heals Wizard back up, Wizard uses Hold Person, then Barbarian kills the enemy they all 3 get XP. But then youd have to keep track of all that so just give everyone the XP or use milestone.

[@captvalstrax]

I'm glad I have never played at a table that does XP leveling.

[@MoutainMannPro]

Thats the dumbest rule ive ever heard, and ive read the players handbook, so thats saying a lot

[@alexblasko8174]

This rule would quickly convert several wizards into tyrants clearing out cities...

[@griffithmoony9263]

This would really be an issue at my table because my warlock tends to steal the barbarian's kill in our game

[@milkshakellie]

i personally love xp, my players love the feeling of reward and it makes levelling up feel like an achievement rather than me arbitrarily deciding they level up after a boss fight. we even have a whole system on how you can get xp outside of combat so the players don’t force themselves into fights just to level up

[@SirDankleberry]

Personally I prefer Milestone but based around story progression.

[@austinwthompson45]

I accidentally used this rule thinking it was the norm when I was a new DM...

[@JamescMichel]

Like the videos but the super speed is mind-jarring. Rather have a two parter than a sped up one.

[@mcphadenmike]

I agree. I LOVE the dudes and all their content but the 2x speed doesn’t work for me at all.

[@nexteffects]

This is why we play with milestones in experience.

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

Agreed. I just do sessions so that it saves time at the table.

[@Wrathura]

Milestone with xp as guidance to pace the milestones is the perfect blend.

[@greyclaymore]

I played in a group where the DM did something similar. It was the worst

[@IFledFromKansas]

I have so much anxiety from this being sped up.

[@MrBubbydoo]

They had that rule in Bushido RPG back in the day. Seemed good with die hard Samurai charge in types

[@Sp4rt4nSl4ya]

Imagine going through all the effort of slaying an ancient dragon with this rule and getting no xp for it...

[@RadimuxCisco]

Currently am playing a high level transmutation specialist. Crowd Control and Buffs. I don't remember when was the last time I killed an enemy. I was doing a lot of Baleful Polymorph a few months ago but we are fighting high level power that are becoming almost immune to those kid of things.

[@matthewpopow6647]

My take had a killing blow rule. Whoever dealt the killing blow had the enemy figure sit in front of them the rest of the session... that was it.

[@glennschroeder3828]

Things like this are why we don't use xp in our game. We tried using xp before, but found that using milestone leveling encouraged better roleplay and disincentived murder-hobos. We do, however, reward the players who make the killing blows with the first chances to loot a corpse. We usually also punish those players though (jokingly) by having them buy the food and first round at the tavern when we get back to town, because they probably made a bit more on the job.

[@oeurydice]

The competition this kind of rule creates is definitely the biggest issue... But it's definitely going to be detrimental to the whole party's effectiveness in the long term when the support classes can't access their best spells.

[@benjamin_burke]

Of all the DDudes clips you could have made into a Short, I’d think arguing against a rule that zero people in the world currently use would be way down on the list

[@zero11010]

Totally agree!

[@devin5201]

Shorts are fairly easy to make, it's not like they're spending multiple days working on it. And people DO use this awful rule, I left a group mainly because of it.

[@zero11010]

@@devin5201 it’s SO poorly conceived though. Why would you build a rule into a game that punishes whole build types and regions of the game? This feels like having to write text on a Batman cape that wearing it doesn’t enable you to fly.

[@truthreckoning]

count yourself lucky you don't know anyone trying to implement it. I had a player that thought that's how the game worked even though I told everyone we are doing Milestone leveling in session 0.

[@frostkitsunelive7661]

As a DM, I generally award more experience to my players for finding alternative solutions over simply killing. It depends on encounters, but if the players can pacify their enemy through either words or force, I see it as them gaining more knowledge of the world than through murder. The idea of this House Rule kills all creativity that players can come up with, and essentially turns them into murderhobos. And when that happens, players start seeing all NPCs as bags of XP.

[@WiiTara]

Would be interessting to see if there is any way to "fix" this. Like not awarding sole EXP but maybe some kind of blessing die, being usable for the next 10 min or so?

[@callsigncowboy4507]

Either split XP throughout the party or use milestone but individual XP is an awful game experience

[@OriginalWarwood]

There was a 2e AD&D rule set with this, but you got experiemce for: gold collected, locks picked, spells cast, etc etc. It was.....interesting but not great.

[@yoni10014]

This is something that I commonly see in MOBAs and I am honestly baffled. Why create adversity WITHIN YOUR OWN TEAM, in a game that should reward cooperation

[@kidthegeek]

I was level 4 in a group of level 1s and 2s because I got lucky and got almost every killing blow. It sucked.

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

I don't recommend using XP. Level up by session count.

[@eliadams3711]

I final blow gets an extra 10% exp but that’s just how we like to do it

[@dillonpeterson120]

They casted haste on this one

[@SquawkMonk]

Ridiculous rule. My favorite classes to play are monk and ranger, mostly for flavor reasons, and they're usually the least damaging. But I can do so many cool things! Honestly, when I'm DMing...this might be blasphemous for some folks...but I don't use exp at all. Strictly milestone. Personally, I try to focus a lot more on character and story rather than a series of encounters strung together. Milestone exp is much better for the flow of play, and I can even use it as a pacing tool. The party gains a level when it feels like they've earned it, as a literal milestone as they progress in the story. IMHO

[@FriendlyDuergar-by7jm]

It seems odd that anyone would use this in 5e. Growing up playing BECMI this is RAW, but most xp was from treasure. Maybe 10% or so was from fighting. Also, this was a nice little bonus to fighters who didn't gain power as quickly at higher levels. Always seemed natural to me that fighters would be a little higher level than a magic user. Why anyone would port this rule to 5e in isolation beats me.

[@Three_Tiny_Robots]

Lol I remember trying out this rule back in AD&D 2nd ed! It resulted in a lot of stupid infighting within the group- in and out of the game- and we gave it up after two sessions.

[@sirelfinjedi]

I remember 2e XP really differentiated between who got what rewarded for which actions. Players got into arguments because they felt like they had worked an enemy down but then someone got in the last lick and split the XP with them.

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

Wow!! I can't believe folks play that way. What a waste of DM time

[@sirelfinjedi]

@travisdonaldstanley6420 it was frustrating, but it was how the books set it up. At some point, we naturally went into milestone advancement. Saved some friendships.

[@N0rthernSparrow1945]

It would be funny with the opposite, where the person (out of the players) who had hit in last when it dies

[@__Rodrigo__]

NO ONE will play support with this rule, so if you use it good luck balancing encounters with no healers on party

[@fenixmeaney6170]

I could see getting some sort of extra benefit for killing blows, maybe additional experience, but all the experience for one player?

[@Smittybonez-ii2mi]

Killing blow maybe bonus exp, not all

[@jonlorenzen6954]

Dudes, you need less coffee! Wwwaaaay too fast for my morning right now 😅

[@deborahphillips500]

This is exactly how AD&D worked. I hated it.

[@Cbwrob]

This is in place currently at the table I am playing and as a more suppot wizard it is a little tough to deal with. I do honestly feel like sometimes it makes me just want to save my spell slots for damage and not support the team with silvery barbs and web and such. I could just use damage spells but I don't feel like that is what best supports the team. I think the worst part of this rule is we don't even know what loot was dropped. The question is how do you address it when you were invited to play at a friends' game?

[@Uidor]

Is your friend the DM? If so, just say to him privately exactly what you’ve said here about how the rule makes you feel, the reasons for why that is, and the consequences it is having on the game. If he’s a good friend, he should be open to finding a way to make the experience more enjoyable for you. If your friend is another player and the DM is someone else entirely, talk to your friend and either ask him to broach this topic by the DM as a mutual connection or just talk to the DM yourself but ask your friend to have your back. In either case, remember to voice your criticisms constructively; people will be more open to change that way.

[@Wh173c0c0]

The above poster has the right idea. Calmly and logically address your concern. It might help to use this video to support your position. Point out that it will create large party level gaps and invalidate certain builds. Most important though is to make sure that you are *not* coming at it from a "me" stance though. That tends to throw some people off. Instead of saying "When I use Web and Silvery Barbs, I get no XP despite having helped immensely!", say "What happens when the Barbarian and Fighter work really hard to fight a boss monster but my wimpy 3 damage Fire Bolt lands the killing blow? They get nothing despite contributing more damage." Show equal concern for the group, not just your own interests, and you will usually be better recieved. Best case? Things work out, your DM helps to facilitate a fun environment for everyone, and you all make a better game. Worst case? They get mad, put their foot down, refuse to acknowledge your points. At that point, you know to leave. A huge part of friendship and gaming together is respect. A DM who won't listen to his players doesn't respect them. Having no D&D is better than playing bad D&D, remember that. Best of luck with this. If you do decide to go through with it, I'd love an update. Share your story to help others in this situation.

[@Cbwrob]

@@Uidor I really do appreciate the advice as I am new to this. My friend is the DM so it may create a little more tension but I can bring it up in a tactful way. We have a session this Saturday so I can keep you all updated as to the result of our conversation.

[@Uidor]

@@Cbwrob You're very welcome. Also, I completely agree with Wh173's amendment to my suggestion. I should have said something to the effect of making it about the group as a whole, but wanted to keep the advice short. Also just realized I completely showed my ass and assumed your friend was a guy. My apologies if this is not the case. My own DM friend is a guy so I just absentmindedly projected. Best of luck!

[@powerspro3553]

This also becomes an issue if you have someone who wants to play a healer. What? You're going to punish them for keeping the party alive when they could've hit the thing?

[@DungeonDudes]

That’s why we are saying it’s a terrible rule, yes.

[@danielmiller3596]

... is there something weird with speed?

[@envoy2500]

I had a group that had been playing together for a while and the next campaign was going to be Dark Souls themed. We used a variant xp system with a killing blow rule that we all agreed to before character creation. It worked well for that campaign, but I wouldn't recommend it generally.

[@envoy2500]

@@Keovar there were plenty of people /capable/ of support. It was just usually self-support until later levels when it was party support lol

[@SquawkMonk]

It makes sense if you all agree ahead of time, and I'm assuming it's a super combat oriented story. And it just makes sense with the DS theme. I wouldn't do it in my game but I could see how it could be fun to play.

[@SirDankleberry]

This is why I'm glad my DM awards out experience based on what ALL the party accomplished. That way it breeds solidarity and teamwork instead of hostility and competition.

[@Protectourbioshpere]

People play like this? Why!? That sounds terrible!

[@Demonling]

I remember this being in effect in my first time playing AD&D and boy it sucked...

[@norokodven4768]

Sassy Speed Scripts for the win

[@bobdagno4036]

This rule is a bit of a meme in my friend group as an objectively horrendous idea. We have a plan to one day run a short stupid campaign with this rule just to see how bad it is.

[@Keovar]

Sounds like it would be better done with Monster of the Week than Pathfinder or D&D.

[@TheWobbinator1]

Hot take... XP Lvl Up is poorly implemented in 5e and you should just be using milestone by default.

[@zero11010]

Is it? Are you following page 75 of the DMG or whatever that says 6-8 medium to hard fights each day and using the encounter mechanics to set up each fight as per the dungeon master guide? That’s what the difficulty and the rate of experience gain was based on. So … are you doing what they say and you don’t like it? Or, are you doing something OTHER than what they say, and you don’t like how this OTHER thing works out?

[@maxb2244]

​@@zero11010Nah, Milestone is just better.

[@glenwebster2481]

Life unfair

[@demogorghon]

Can you speed it up a bit. Was to long for me... Also playing DND with XP is bad.

[@alexskelton4150]

Do people actually use this rule? It's so obviously rubbish?

[@mikevreeland8889]

Funny - SO fast :-)

[@gaithorn]

There is no way that doesn't devolve into PCs killing other PCs. If you are competing for the killing blow, the most effective way to insure that is to gank the other players because corpses can't kill anything

[@mlpowers1991]

Necromancers would like to have a word with you

[@lort8334]

Who the fuck is doing that??? 😂

[@syrupchugger421]

As much as I love your videos I don't think y'all are made for shorts. These fast forwarded clips just feel weird.

[@williammitchell6254]

Why do they sound so sped up 😅

[@zero11010]

Think about it. Even briefly.

[@josephpement5938]

Hot take, I believe spoken English should be accelerated to about this speed.

[@jacobyspurnger8488]

Killing blow doubles the experience after dividing the experience among the party.

[@fateric007]

Combat isn't the only way to gain experience.

[@reynastrange2828]

If you’re using this rule, your first mistake was not using milestone to level up, and your second mistake was not giving everyone in the party xp for each kill

[@gameplayerone3917]

Hard disagree, yes there can be issues, but those issues are easy to work around. For starters, exp gained doesn't have to be disclosed. It's only relevant until someone levels up. Exp can also come from other sources at the dm's discretion. Secondly, it pretty handily solves the martial/caster divide, and thus campaigns can truly go up to level 20. That's because, thirdly, since casters will lag behind in levels, encounters won't be as easily trivialized, and casters will never truly fall behind, because the dm can just artificially give them exp when needed. It really doesn't take that much work. Aside from rewarding players to play more, if there's about to be a party wipe you can give someone a levelup during a fight in a way that allows them to change the tides (likely a caster). At first I also thought the use of exp would be too much work, but a fellow dm introduced me to a very simply tally system. I don't have much experience using it, but as a player I've never had more fun.

[@jimfogarty6385]

In over 40 years of playing D&D and other games, I've never encountered this rule. IRL this must be very rarely used. I would hazard a guess that anyone using this rule would either be an inexperienced DM or someone more interested in sowing discord. That being said, I have encountered many silly or downright stupid rules. My advice to new players would be, if you DM is unreasonable with rules and rulings, briefly try to talk it out. And if that doesn't work, walk away from the table. Don't waste your time on frustrating or unsatisfying games.

[@KnicKnac]

This bad house rule goes in the barrel along with banning certain lineages/races because you've had too many edgelords.

[@truthreckoning]

I only ban flying races 😅

[@SquawkMonk]

Nothing kills creativity quicker than, "oh, PHB races only."

[@KnicKnac]

@@SquawkMonk I've seen SCAG, PHB and Volo's only and they didn't recognize updates to lore.

[@SquawkMonk]

@@KnicKnac jeebus, that sounds like a mess

[@SquawkMonk]

@@truthreckoning coward!