"WPATH Has No Respect for Medical Ethics" with Mia Hughes | Episode 156

[@widerlenspod]

Join our Listener Community on Substack (www.widerlenspod.com) and you'll find additional content with Mia Hughes, along with premium bonus content with other guests, discussion posts, resources, and information on ways to support the show. Please, also remember to like and subscribe right here on KZbin! Thank you so much!

[@RobynNicholson-Reid-bz4hw]

Wonderful suggestion! I’ve joined. Fantastic content! I’m feeling much calmer and supported and my daughter is happier too! Thank you!

[@angie82175]

It’s a medical scandal up there with the worst, so why doesn’t Australia’s ABC (equivalent to the BBC) have any reports on the WPATH files? ABC’s tv, radio and social media platforms are silent .

[@craighenschel6421]

It’s a large crime scene.

[@noroomforsquares4483]

This, 100%. Wonder if Paul Barry and Media Watch can be persuaded...

[@minuishaq631]

Lots of the media class have trans kids themselves or know someone who has transitioned their child. It's rampant in certain professions media academia and the arts. Even if you don't have a trans kid you will be socially ostracised by those who do.

[@snorgonofborkkad]

@@minuishaq631They’re lying. They do not have “trans” kids. It’s a trend like being vegan or goth. Fashion is not a psychological condition.

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@@snorgonofborkkad - much as I hate to disagree - being vegan IS a thing - it is a choice for whatever reason (some do it because they believe it's healthier, others because they don't want to harm animals) not to consume or use anything that comes from an animal. You and I may not agree with that choice but to deny it exists is bizarre. I don't believe that any gods exist or have ever existed, but I don't deny tat there are Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc.

[@AndyJarman]

Beginning to feel sorry for Mia, just listened to her two hour chat with Benjamin Boyce. Amazed Mia hasn't lost her voice!

[@snorgonofborkkad]

She’s a real hero.

[@ChristineKT61]

Brilliant episode, thank you all, I remember you Mia from Twitter, before I was banned for life due to my stance on children. I was woke in terms of what I thought I knew about transsexuals, I’m 62, so I’m actually talking about the original transsexuals😊. And I raised my children to have compassion for this small group of men, I hadn’t heard of any women transsexuals at the time. When I found out the high numbers of children with ASD, trauma or gay being groomed on line and medicalised, on top of the large percentage of males who still have a penis, I was done. No way should they be in women’s spaces and no way are these children able consent to even socially transitioning. As a therapist, having worked with children and families, I believed we were letting these children down and could not understand why we weren’t safeguarding them. This has been a major issue for me since 2017, I’m one of the older women being called a TERF, because I wouldn’t “sit down”…….. and I won’t, not on this issue. The harm to children and families is the priority in fighting this dystopian war but so the harm to practitioners working in health, social and therapeutic care. I am astounded by the number of professionals I have spoken to who do not feel they can say anything about this medical malpractice or policing of language. Thank you all for the work you all do, it’s so important to keep going to literally ‘save the children’……… Looking forward to the conference on Saturday. It’s 4am so apologies for any spelling mistakes, I need to sleep now😵‍💫😵‍💫🙏🙏

[@robertmarshall2502]

Reading these types of comments gives me hope. Stand tall.

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@ChristineKT61 - fellow 62 year old terf here - born at the end of 1961. I have been shocked by how quickly this ridiculous social contagion has been accepted as reality by the establishment. Let's hope we have hit peak madness and are now on our way back down to reality.

[@thorpsewinglessons5913]

@@robertmarshall2502 totally agree with the comment.💯%

[@thorpsewinglessons5913]

@@honeychurchgipsy6 pray and hope so for all concerned.

[@teejarado5543]

Mia is a natural! A natural thinker, writer, and now speaker. I hope these groundbreaking events can pry open the tight lid that confines such important information to narrow and limited audiences. It could be a gamechanger if we could share this expose on Face the Nation or 60 Minutes on CBS... and Mia Hughes or Jamie Reed or Michael Shellenberger would be fabulous.

[@aidananstey9848]

There is NO WAY 60 Minutes will touch this, they have been pushing this Ideolofy for well over a decade and helped make the medical transition of children mainstream by celebrating Jazz Jennings as a "girl born with a boys body" when he was like 5years old.

[@snorgonofborkkad]

Mia is a true hero. The Alpha Female energy in this interview is intense. Thank you for your sacrifice and durability.

[@srodgars1560]

I think whats even odd is people with at least least 6 years medical training fall for this while the average Joe on the street can tell you it makes no logical sense to castrate someone unless because it sounds more of a person with mental issue. But of course, theres the money, pharmaceuticals & surgery, youve got permanent patients for life,the greatest money making scheme ever!

[@PaulCarr1]

This is exactly what I have thought for a while. The reasons people come up with for their credulity doesn't wash. As you say, a doctor with 7 years of medical training can't understand, or is too incurious to understand, something that is so obviously against all reason that the majority of the public can see it? It makes no sense. I think there is something going on with these people being specialists with a narrow field of knowledge and being used to accepting what they are told by others in the field as being true. Maybe also a tendency to defer to the literature, or to "expertise"?

[@snorgonofborkkad]

Medical education has collapsed. The students are being taught to game the system instead of learn real medicine.

[@snorgonofborkkad]

The medical university’s are completely corrupt. They indoctrinate students into insane sociopolitical religious beliefs. They do not care about health. They see you as a body to be manipulated for the revolution.

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@srodgars1560 - but surgeons in the UK don't get money per surgery - so money cannot be the driving force here. I think it's more down to how the activists have infiltrated every section of public discourse and used their threats of suicide to coerce those of us who have empathy into believing their nonsense.

[@Gingerblaze]

@@PaulCarr1 or for many others, a god complex and immense hubris.

[@janebennetto5655]

Fantastic discussion. Carry on these excellent, insightful podcasts. I also want to say please, please don’t listen to dissenters within the fight against gender-ideology. Your natures and strengths are better used for the good of the children and women and not with people who don’t have the back-bone to talk about difficult issues. 🇬🇧❤

[@PaulCarr1]

Whoever introduced the idea that "Lived Experience" is always to be taken as the primary measure of whether what someone says is true has a lot to answer for.

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@PaulCarr1 - it comes from existential phenomenology, and the idea that lived experience should be taken into consideration when making any decisions - medical, state planning etc. is not a nad idea. For example, in the 1970's human geographer Ann Buttimeer proposed that individual lived experience should be taken in to consideration when planning how to use physical spaces, rather than thinking of human groups alone. The trouble comes when the trans activists do the bait and switch - just as they have with gender - and propose that lived experience/feelings are the ONLY thing that matters. The same goes for postmodern ideas about reality and knowledge: they have been co-opted, bastardised, and used for their gain.

[@PaulCarr1]

Yes, I first heard it used in Feminist discourse to say that one should be aware that we often don't have the same experiences as other people, so the things they tell us about their lives should be given some weight. Like all of these concepts, this works fine if the person is talking in good faith. The switch to "You can only talk about a subject if you have experienced it" seemed to creep in to effectively shut down criticism, and even discussion. Powerful tools will always be abused by self-regarding people that seek authority and influence.

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@@PaulCarr1 exactly - it depends on the person's agenda. However, I also think it is possible to be operating in good faith and still do immeasurable harm. I think this is how the trans activists have managed to become so powerful in such a short time; they know most of us don't want to hurt anyone, or cause offence, and they take advantage of our good nature. They also bank on us being ill informed and generally trusting the 'experts' in the field. Meanwhile they pedal their narratives about suicide (which further frightens us into silence), and we end up with a whole public narrative that insists that 5 year olds must have puberty blockers and 12 year olds must have their genitals removed, and biological males can become females and vice versa. that's why podcasts like this one - and the Gender Dysphoria Alliance are vital.

[@thorpsewinglessons5913]

Well done to these ladies and the Gender Dysphoria Alliance are indeed vital.

[@mark4asp]

The term "lived experience" entered the academic literature about 135 yeears ago in a feminist, Australian journal. 75 years ago, 1949, Simone de Beauvoir published her feminist book: "The Second Sex". The second part of that book is titled: "Lived Experience". Well done feminists! You paved the way for this.

[@AndyJarman]

All experience has to be lived. The expression 'lived experience' has been validated by popularising Postmodernism. Postmodernism maintains subjective perceptions are equally valid compared to objective observation. Standpoint epistemology is a major concern of Critical Social Justice.

[@snorgonofborkkad]

“Lived Experience” is just a psychologically manipulative neologism. It means “anecdotal evidence” which is famously one of the least reliable or useful kinds of evidence. They do it as a trick. They’re trying to conflate personal experience with identity. So when you tell them their anecdotal evidence isn’t impressive, they pretend you’re attacking them personally. They then cry-bully you until you submit or are excommunicated. It’s an act of hatred masquerading as self defense.

[@RobynNicholson-Reid-bz4hw]

My daughter has told me she believes transitioning will solve all her problems. She has no problems, she has gone hunting for problems like ADHD, Autism etc and has convinced herself that she suffers from the latest trend from the internet. I think it is a coping mechanism for not having any problems ie no abuse of any type, privileged, wealthy and even popular amongst her peers, no family trauma,lots of holidays, skiing, travelling the world, good food, all the gaming and technology she wanted, acting classes, musical theatre classes and the overindulged list goes on. How does that translate to I really want to be a trans man and you can’t stop me and need to believe my extreme cultish obsession and beliefs and has started having testosterone injections. It’s insane!

[@mbernier59]

💔💔💔

[@shyman3000]

For what its worth, i remember being an average suburban teenager in the 90's and a feeling at some point that there was absolutely nothing special or interesting about me. That i had no defining struggle in my life. I think this started to hit me more and more in my late teens as i was exposed to movies and dramatic stories of people from other parts of the world or in the US who seemed to have such interesting back stories. My family eventually went through a dramatic move and divorce and things fell apart and i began to see my own story emerge, but i think that desire you are talking about in your daughter is a real thing. It's too bad that there are so many false stories for them to fall into. Growing up in this world no matter what your material comforts are, is a struggle. If they could recognize that they might avoid these trends. Hopefully it passes.

[@jillfryer6699]

it can be just the same with someone with none of those privileges, this world where no one ever thinks they have enough of whatever they think they want or deserve. I hope you find a way to get through this.

[@burungpipitmakanpadi]

Pl LLP😊😊

[@Tyler-vw9bh]

As someone who, like your daughter, grew up in an affluent neighborhood without tragedy, the desire to make your own adversity is real. In my day, it was because people who start from nothing and rise to the top were celebrated (rightfully so) but people like me were the bad guys in the disney movies lol.... I think there are a couple ways kids handle this -They can go my initial route and self destruct. Although I grew up in an affluent and safe neighborhood I still managed to go to jail, fail classes, and get into drugs (not just talking about weed) -They can go your daughters route and try to identify something wrong with them so they can identify with an oppressed group -They can just lean into the disney movie bad guy role and become a entitled/spoiled brat -Or they can do what I luckily ended up doing and find adversity in something productive. For me, it was the Marine Corps (luckily they were taking drug/criminal waivers at the time lol) which ultimately saved my life and put me on a path to success, albiet rocky at times. Unfortunately the marxist/oppressor-oppressed/victim ideology (or whatever you want to call it) seems to be pushing kids into the first two categories at a much higher rate now days. At least when I was young, those who were celebrated overcame their adversity. Now days, adversity relinquishes all responsibility and entitles anyone who fits into a special category unconditional praise and absolves them of any wrongdoing. Conversely, anyone who does not fit into a special category is unconditionally guilty and can do no right. Its no wonder kids want to be in one of those special categories. I feel bad for parents and their children now days. Best of luck

[@rosshonniball5345]

Mia you speak so clearly that despite the horrific subject you are just a pleasure to listen to. Thank you.

[@slacktoryrecords4193]

I would love for Mia to write a full-length book about the similarities amongst the other past social contagions and trans identification. Or even just an entire book about Multiple Personality Disorder, which I know she’s always been very interested in. Mia is great! Thanks Sasha and Stella!

[@AndyJarman]

Mary Harrington's 'meat lego theocracy' comes to mind during the closing statements.

[@BrittishCats]

I remember some years ago when the swedish Social Board excluded WPATH guidelines from their inquest which led E/WPATH to put a tantrum statement in response. 😂 They probalbly thought they could sway SB's opinion, but SB had done it's due diligence.

[@Susan.D]

Mia is on point with a nice assessment of wpath.Thx.

[@Gingerblaze]

The "too be kind" reason has been used as a weapon. People who have escaped and healed from abusive relationships recognized it early.

[@RobynNicholson-Reid-bz4hw]

They are delusional in their beliefs. It’s very reminiscent of ideologies throughout history people fall for this craziness time and time again.

[@Toastie19]

Don’t know how this podcast escaped me until recently considering I watch a lot of videos on this topic. Always love your perspectives.

[@Knuck_Knucks]

Steady as she goes. This wont be a rapid turn around. Thanks you . 🐿

[@rachellandry3116]

Im thankful for the gathering voices! When I stumbled into this ideology in children's media eight years ago, I thought I was the one that was mad! not any longer. men victimize women in so many creative ways. misogyny in drag being the most aggressively denigrating. thank you for your work.. I feel vindicated.

[@mr.mclibtard5015]

Keep on dividing

[@rachellandry3116]

long or short?

[@rachellandry3116]

what about multiplication? any other mathematical functions you would like to suggest? you can go find ur square root.

[@mr.mclibtard5015]

@@rachellandry3116 get help

[@snorgonofborkkad]

It’s not “men” doing it. That’s a misandrist interpretation. Deranged weirdos who happen to be men do it. The motivation comes from the derangement, not their biology.

[@cestmoi4532]

Wonderful conversation ❤ Thank you, all.

[@karenwheeler1534]

It was my understanding that the removal of the uterus i.e. hysterectomy that was seen as the "cure" for "hysteria". Not so much the ovaries as isolated female organs.

[@MysticMom75]

I think hysteria was linked to the uterus, like in wandering womb syndrome, but hysterectomies were less common treatment. Look up Dr Battey’s ovariotomy, for the epidemic that Mia is referring to.

[@Gingerblaze]

It's not gate keeping that is needed, its sanity and reality preservation, and safe gaurding of children and vulnerable people.

[@Birbal65]

Thank you so much for your hard work and dedication.

[@markworden9169]

She talked about their bibliography. It seems a LOT of this ideological based stuff is like that, Peter Bogosian calls it "idea laundering."

[@snorgonofborkkad]

100% it’s turtles all the way down. Liars write fake scientific papers that get promoted by other liars who publish these papers in fake publications run by more liars, so on and so forth.

[@lettersquash]

Great work. I look forward to hearing about the WPATH response, although with my usual learned cynicism. The WPATH files seems like the turning point, since all roads point back there in the trans ideology. But there will be a large cohort who will stick to their guns. I've had conversations with people who simply have an absolute position about bodily autonomy, no caveats, no age limits, no modification limits. That cohort will push on into transhumanism, and (maybe intersecting venn circles) into attempts to normalize ever more radical sexual practices, from MAPs to bestiality and god knows what else. There's a type of person that imagines they garner respect by breaking normative boundaries, and, beyond boundaries, there are other boundaries to break.

[@acerrubrum5749]

Interesting, that men's testes were not thought to be attached to the brain and therefore no need to be removed 😂 I wonder what they removed from men? Brilliant, thank you

[@ireallymeanthis2760]

Brilliant episode

[@markworden9169]

At least Dr. Frankenstein used corpses for his experiments. These doctors are using live subjects 😮.

[@Gingerblaze]

Currently, activists are selling the concept that transition for children is a human right. Meanwhile some surgeons are offering custom shaped nipples for top surgeries. Star, christmas tree or heart shaped.

[@K10House]

"The lived experience is glorified," except later when one distinguishes between women and trans women, in which case it's not allowed at all.

[@maemae1752]

URGENT: please isn’t it time to interview Sal Grover? With her fight for female rights in Australia!

[@llkoolbean4935]

I also think when the detransitioners reach a certain number, things will change.

[@snorgonofborkkad]

That’s horribly dark. Why do we need a pile of bodies before anyone will stop this.

[@westcoastblue]

When people find out they've reached a certain number. The MD's could follow up and tell us already but they haven't bothered...

[@kathystephen]

Thank you so much for the excellent podcast. This episode is up with the best! Concerning the Eunuch Chapter in SOC8 - it occurred to me this *chapter* has been elaborated, not solely because some adults enjoy that as a niche kink and want to create objects of desire, but more generally the chapter will provide a counter argument to those raising the alarm about the sterilisation of children adolescents and vulnerable people. Sorry for the long sentence. I'm convinced WPATH and the professionals, politicians etc who follow the WPATH lead will soon start claiming that these young sterilised people really identified as and welcomed their sterilisation.

[@Trobynski]

The mental health field is sorely lacking in lived experience and perspectives from the general public. It has been too diagnostic for too long.

[@jillfryer6699]

a balance is needed. when you have either all 'lived experience' or all 'god doctor' types you get something worse than you ever imagined. The 'nothing about us without us' crews are as bad as any immoral cabal given a bit of power. They become moronically self righteous on top of being naturally ignorant and they'll push any stupid idea if it'll keep them in their positions a day longer. Just when you thought you'd had enough of ignorant know all medicos you get this packet of useless lived experience pansies popping up.

[@Ubik1999]

It is all well and good to be having these discussions on KZbin, but this information needs to be gotten out to the actual media. So far I have only seen the WPATH files discussed in one lonely article in Newsweek, and that was in the opinion section. There will be resistance of course, but change will never come about from preaching to the converted.

[@RobynNicholson-Reid-bz4hw]

The mainstream media will not report these findings. They just refuse and ignore any and all contact.

[@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367]

"reflex theory" came back in the 60s as "reflexology", as one of the many medically and scientifically empty trends in "alternative" hippie medicine. Supposedly various parts of your feet and other body parts were related to your internal organs, and various other body parts. So manipulating that part of your feet (via some kind of massage) was supposed to reduce or eliminated inflammation and illness in the "reflex" organ.

[@diydantex6150]

I appreciate you trying to look at the issues and not just going along with popular pressure.

[@eoharafisher]

Edie Sedgwick (The Factory in New York in the 60s) had both anorexia and bulimia. It’s related to very thin expectations for females from young teens onward. We are BOMBARDED with those images of women everywhere.

[@Argeaux2]

People don’t really understand peer review. That don’t understand, for example, that an organisation which owns a journal about acupuncture, can’t publish legitimate peer reviewed studies about acupuncture. In general, people think that peer review means you have been published in any old journal.

[@irenalovesart4064]

Love the highlights Sasha!

[@snorgonofborkkad]

Please don’t, this is a serious conversation.

[@irenalovesart4064]

@snorgonofborkkad my comment is neither for our about you. please don't scold a genuine compliment. It can both be a serious conversation and i can appreciate her hair change as she has talked about it before as you know. Honestly why would you assume a compliment takes away from the gravity of a conversation.

[@scatterbrained1457]

I love Sasha’s new hair style. The shape is perfect. It is darling, and the highlights really add dimension to the curls and make them pop.

[@vanessaleblanc2583]

I wonder how many of these problems involving children would not exist if parents didn’t think it was cool to get their kids smartphones, tablets and free internet access without parental locks from a young age. How are folks not seeing this? I very much support individual rights to self identity, but as a parent, it’s just not up to my kid to run with ideas while she’s under my care.

[@jayjaychadoy9226]

How about sending information to the Universities 'gender research' in each Province of Canada.

[@kimberleyfloyd8179]

Hey Mia. I have been watching many of your interviews, and I can't say it was on this podcast that you spoke of it but the Enquete show from the Quebec CBC was quite good. I am originally from Ottawa and bilingual, so I was able to grasp it in its entirety. I, too, was quite surprised about it making it on the CBC. I think now that you spoke of it on Benjamin Boyce's channel.

[@PaulCarr1]

The takeover by activists of a field of medicine based on a client led model which relies on centering the subjective experiences of a select group (a very particular group that feels a strong desire to "self-identify" as something that is very hard to define) is EXACTLY what is going on currently with the explosion of people seeking an ADHD or Autism diagnosis.

[@PaulCarr1]

There is a push to do anyway with diagnosis altogether and normalize Autism self-id. "Only you know what you really are." There is huge resistance to a new diagnostic criteria of "Profound Autism", just like the resistance to separate categories within "Trans". Almost as if a newly diagnosed 50 year old female teacher gets some reflected sympathy by being in the same category as non-verbal, doubly incontinent profoundly autistic child. The vehemence with which many newly diagnosed adults and teens that identify as autistic adopt it as their primary identity online is similar also.

[@danifilth70]

Just to bring up the addict point from Stella. In this case previous addict lead care seems to be very appropriate if not current addict lead care. In the UK, the ARK clinic is all run by recovered addicts and has a much higher success rate than those run primarily by clinicians.

[@Nicole-ww4lg]

pretty sure i was unsubscribed from this channel....resubscribed. thank you for your work

[@widerlenspod]

Welcome back!

[@joane24]

{Re: the sxual nature of gender dysphoria (Sasha at ca. 40min).} The thig that is quote puzzling to me and I've rarely if ever seen it talked about... It seems to me so 🌽ographic (trying not to get my comment auto-disappeared by yt) to even want the private parts of the opposite sx. How would one even know how they exactly look like? (unless unduly exposed to the 'adult' type stuff). I can imagine feeling wrong in one's body, gender dysphoria and all that, but how one even gets this idea, obsession even, of having the _private parts_ modelled after the opposite sx onto themselves?😳 I just don't understand. It's such a _private_ part, intimate. We don't walk around showing these parts publicly, yet this whole thing is about PUBLICIZING one's PRIVATE PARTS. If feels wrong and improper to even look at the other sx's private parts, if they're not your own spouse!! (or, alternatively, exeptional situations such as a patient for the factual medical reason). . . . . . I can also see how a sense of privacy of one's body and of intimacy is so vanishing from our modern culture, it's astonishing. Some things should be, metaphorically speaking, veiled from the public eye, because they're private, vulnerable, intimate.

[@petmills2219]

Thank you for this video!! Ladies, you are an inspiration and encouragement for us all. The truth will shine through the darkness in Jesus Christ's Name Amen.

[@keiracurro8407]

I am happy & grateful i receive transgender healthcare in Australia as a young Aussie in Regional Australia, But help for My Autism Didn't happen.

[@RobynNicholson-Reid-bz4hw]

That is the great pity of only treating one aspect of a person.

[@westcoastblue]

Don't forget the ROGD boys--it's not just young girls (for some reason the 20-30% of the kids who are boys aren't mentioned...they're not all gay), it's not like their surgeries are less drastic....

[@pjglory3348]

Head of WPATH, Marci Bowers, does restorative surgery on women who have suffered FGM. Given the population/culture this is predominant in, I wonder if Marci discloses to the patients that he is a “trans” person? Medical ethics, anyone?

[@RobynNicholson-Reid-bz4hw]

Marci Bowers is also the surgeon responsible for her “patchwork quilt” work on Jazz Jennings genitalia. Butcher!

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

Not sure that illnesses like Anorexia and Bulimia are the result of having a formal description and place on the list of mental conditions. My experience of bulimia and my sister's of bulimia and anorexia in the 70's and early 80's is the opposite of this and, in fact it was only when I read a 'confession' of a bulimic woman in a magazine that I realised it WAS a condition. From that moment my need to hide it due to immense shame, lessened. Our issues started because of dieting and diet books that told me I was overweight because I was 71/2 stone when I should have been 6 stone for my just under 5 foot height . Now kids are exposed to the idea of dieting and impossible body images from a much earlier age and are encouraged to diet by doctors and other health practioners. I was around 14, my sister a year older, when she told me about some friends that had developed a way to remain thin without being constantly hungry: you could eat what you wanted and then be sick. It seemed like being saved from hell, but, of course it becomes its own hell. in my opinion, the foundational contagion (images and dreams of the impossibly perfect body) that leads to the contagion of anorexia and bulimia, is even worse for kids today.

[@widerlenspod]

All very good points. However what is discussed in Ethan Watters' book Crazy Like Us, is a slightly different phenomenon of how naming these disorders in other cultures allowed for them to spread. You should check out the first chapter of his book, it's really fascinating and in no way undermines your experience that you describe above.

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@@widerlenspod - thanks, I will check out his book, it sounds interesting. I think there is always going to be a trade off between the need for conditions and behaviours to be documented and understood, and the dangers that come with giving a public name and voice to these human conditions/behaviours. I agree that human beings will be more likely to 'experience' things and believe they have 'insert condition here' when public (and physician) awareness is raised, but I think that the biggest social contagion, both then and now, is the dieting/perfect body one. Ubiquitous images of impossibly perfect/thin female bodies, and books, magazines and social media sites pushing the lie of the next big diet have inflicted immeasurable harm upon young people. Is it even possible to grow up now without being aware of (mostly erroneous) information about what to eat and how to look? it's weirdly similar to the trans issue because, just like the diets, transitioning promises something it (in most cases) cannot deliver. Obviously, social media has massively increased the speed with which these ideas about starvation, gender identity, etc. are able to spread, as well as ramping up the intensity of the message. That's something I didn't have to deal with of course. Sometimes I wonder how youngsters survive these days - I really feel for them. Anyway, another great discussion - I'm a fairly new subscriber so I'm working my way through your back catalogue - keep up the good work - we need to get back to some kind of normality - soon!

[@diydantex6150]

The comment about Doctors wanting to play God was interesting. It seems like it would be a creative challenge to change someone's gender surgically. It is a shame it couldn't be focused somewhere else.

[@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367]

Mia would have a lot more credibility if she discussed the limitations of the files and her report. All the items are cherry-picked, first by the anonymous activist who copied them and gave them to Shellenberger (after having journalists turned them down due to lack of newsworthy value), then Mia and Shellenberger did another filter. And that's what we are reading. What else is there? At least these limitations should be discussed, for context. Because as it is, it's fairly easy for WPATH to blow it off. Which is what they are doing. And at the moment, so is the medical/educational mainstream who support the "affirming care".

[@floorfan7987]

RFKJ is coming for them !!!!

[@toshiyaar7885]

For anyone dealing with daughters wanting to be males, does anyone try to get a male role model to sit down and tell them what it is like to live, as a man, in a man's world. The potential threat of violence, loneliness, social pressures, etc? And vice versa?

[@jillfryer6699]

No. I asked someone once what they thought it'd be like to be a man. They had no idea and not a shred of interest.

[@toshiyaar7885]

@@jillfryer6699 I have a close friend who was one of the first in our country to transistion from FTM. They are horrified at the idea of young girls traqnsitioning. They once told me, they have no idea how hard it is to live as a man in a man's world. And went on to describe some of the things I metioned above. They said, had they known that life was not "safe" living as a man in a man's world, they may not have changed. Some of the life stories are quite scary! antoher young friend who thought they were trans, and had their father & uncles explain what life was like in an adult man's life. Then of course there's the life changes throughout adulthood, your youth friends change, the people you start adult hood with move on, and you are left to find new friends and deal with your own life changes. This is something young people, esecially those in college, have no idea this happens in adult life. Your friendship circles that you think will be there forever change, all of the time. So the security of friendship groups are not stable long term. They changed their tune alomost instantly. Like my friend said once, You need to fully imagine yourself in your 50s as a man, and your long life, before you decide on transition. There is a great book, written by a woman who disguised herself as a man for a year to prove that men were more priveleged than women. She discovered that that was 100% NOT the case. Incredible journey - and a great book to give to any young woman deciding to transition - it's called "Self Made Man" by Norah Vincent.

[@carinagomezfernandez7473]

I experience this as a woman too.

[@Gingerblaze]

38:00:00 perhaps the women advocating ovaraiectomies simply did not want to become pregnant anymore?

[@kimwiser445]

Many of these groups, it’s really about funding.

[@towpottsfam7631]

Sachs hair is magnificent

[@C1223opuv]

When I hear “WPATH” I always think of warpath. Their activities are so ideological and deranged,

[@alanspicer500]

Non binary mastectomy is similar to breast enlargement and at best cosmetic I would not go any further with gender identification but is testorone safe or does it lead to hysterectomy?

[@alanspicer500]

The male topology of the transsexual was a perfect explanation that really helped me to understand that cohort of the male population I believe it is a rear part of clarity in this discussion that needs some brave men to come out and further comment. I personally tried on women's stockings as a child. And I know guys who tried women's underwear. The incidence of autogynophiles identifying as lesbian is interesting because my friend is bisexual and I'm gay. I personally wonder if a homophobic environment is a factor here as the autogynophiles can appear as hyper masculine. Anyway I will keep listening to genspect at this stage I'm still a gay male TERF......

[@heidinayak6317]

Hysterectomy is just one of the many very serious side-effects that can result when girls take testosterone. Some of these side-effects are permanent. It's a heck of a lot more dangerous than men taking oestrogen.

[@insidiousmischka]

I disagree, Stella. I think the HEART of the issue is that nobody can change sex and transition is dangerous euphemism.

[@jillfryer6699]

World Professional Association for Transgender Health.

[@RobynNicholson-Reid-bz4hw]

Sounds like a sporting code.

[@ameliachameleon]

The irony is.... everytime I see WPATH, my brain thinks it's "wrath" in all caps 😅 which is exactly what I feel surrounding the minor affirmation model.

[@RoyallyMessy]

I understand that patients may have valid information and feedback but it seems they have no interest in de-transitioning people or even just dissatisfied patients.

[@loganjames3789]

Which medical scandals in history? Ovariotomies, your 'favourite'. Ok. After a list of them she completely excludes the Anglophone world's most prolific mass medical scandal that persists to this day: non-therapeutic routine male circumcision of healthy boys.100's of millions of healthy young males have had their genitals reduced and mutilated in the English-speaking world under the guise of 'medicine' since the late 19th century. The medicalised pathologising of a natural, integral and multi-functional sexual organ has had devastating negative effects predominantly for males of course, but also for their female partners. All the ethical issues around children and consent have been on the agenda for Intactivists for more than 35 years. Try Doctors Opposed to Circumcision, Attorneys for the Rights of the Child(ARC), Intact America, just to name a few. So many parallels.

[@hospitalsgivingpatientsdan8894]

PRIMARY SEX CHARACTERISTICS ARE NOT CHANGEABLE AND SECONDARY SEX CHARACTERISTICS MASCULINITY AND FEMININITY NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN PRIMARY

[@collyernicholasjohn]

Mia sounds based. This stuff is so bonkers.😂

[@miroirs-jumeaux]

i'm early!

[@skepticusmaximus184]

Oh oh! Here comes Frankentrans.

[@zeddez1005]

Having studied the origins of Western Medicine I can vouch that ethics never had a place in its conception, practice or evolution.

[@mr.mclibtard5015]

Get help please

[@patavinity1262]

Literally untrue and easily disproven.

[@snorgonofborkkad]

I think you’re confusing “the west” with everywhere else.

[@jillfryer6699]

you haven't 'studied' anything, that's obvious. WTF do you think you're talking to?

[@Halman2112]

You are going to have a very hard time dislodging the current medical orthodoxy. we are dealing with something that’s essentially a religion complete with its own epistemological field of study. The rot of postmodernism has leaped from the pages of Butler to the operating rooms and the children will pay the price.

[@georgiaamanatides4207]

WPATH is like porn. I know it's a crock when I see/hear/read it.

[@anomietoponymie2140]

Mia's writing in the WPATH files is "beautiful"? It's very important and excellent, straightforward but it isn't "beautiful" at all Stella, beautiful is not her concern. And Sasha, I wouldn't call her thinking "deep" either, it's just very knowledgeable, astute and uncommon.