Wrestling vs Jiu Jitsu - Jocko Willink

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@jockowillink @echocharles
Excerpt from JOCKOPODCAST 68

[@cameronoquinn94]

Fun Fact: these aren't separate pod casts. They have been sitting there, in the same spot, talking non-stop for years.

[@Empridon]

lol

[@Empridon]

@@madmoonrabbit agreed

[@MrKeeyt-jm3ji]

@@madmoonrabbit your underrated is underrated

[@lukeslivinlife]

All this underrated tbh

[@bitkid1041]

Lmfao

[@Caine830]

I’m a wrestler and it’s like this. Wrestling will give the aggression, the muscle memory to stay on your feet, never be on your back, get off the ground quick as well as the strength and cardio from wrestling. BJJ will give you the submissions that wrestling lacks to finish a fight.

[@loristnorton3723]

Bjj's fight does not end when you are on your back though and that helps in MMA, though.

[@pntbalndwrestling]

It will lock some things in and it is probably just based on the person, but I never had a problem breaking those "rules" knowing there was a different goal and I wasn't trying to pin. I still got tapped out, but never felt uncomfortable on my back and never shot to my feet if I reversed a position.

[@vincechiefexec]

I came from the true old school wrestling days when your coach had better not find you laying on your back, or you would suffer a grueling session of sprints, up-downs, etc. So, transitioning to the guard aspect of BJJ proved challenging. However, once I applied some of the same principles of wrestling - hip position, angles, circling - to BJJ, I began to quickly adapt to the guard position.

[@tommymc7535]

Idk.... you can get muscle memory from many different things. Same thing with strength

[@KWillo]

Older forms of wrestling had submissions i.e. catch wrestling.The modern Olympic freestyle wrestling omitted most submissions.

[@nightangelx1513]

Jiu jitsu summarized Instructor: ok so here’s how you choke someone on the ground Me: but how do you get them in the ground ? Instructor: . . . . Wrestling summarized Instructor: ok here’s how to take someone down Me: ok what do I do from there Instructor: . . .

[@danielfbc2744]

everyone knows how to hug hahahahaha wrestling is bs

[@danielfbc2744]

@Tyler K. Wrestlers never got a chance. They passed out 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 ahahhahahaha

[@danielfbc2744]

@Tyler K. You like to over think about emoji! What this one means? 🖕🏻👆🏻👇🏻🤘🏻Have fun😂🤷🏻‍♂️

[@danielfbc2744]

Boxers clinch but they really want to hurt you. Wrestlers want score points 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@danielfbc2744]

Your chihuahua picture is great. You are a kid because you called me a school kid. Good night boy 😂

[@Ioannikios174]

Wrestling and BJJ just need to become one fully integrated martial art already.

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Ben Askren lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@benjaminpointdexter7280]

@@danielfbc2744 In a boxing match. Idiot

[@danielfbc2744]

@@benjaminpointdexter7280 Your zero finishing skills fighter did that! Sorry! He is st**** like you

[@denniss5548]

@@danielfbc2744 End fight? What is that?

[@navigatingel6104]

@@danielfbc2744 lol how would BJJ win in a boxing match?

[@joelwalmsley7217]

Echo is such a softly spoken unit

[@edwardsmith1768]

😂😂😂

[@kamlasayeen]

at the 10:25 i got mesmerized by his left bicep....couldn't believe the striations...looked like a block of wood...absolute unit

[@Reisito305]

Most dangerous types

[@elvatosquatcho]

Reminds me of a wise 🦍

[@andrabook8758]

true, I think all his volume is in his bicepts, lol. still don't get how he got them to look like they have stripes tho....mystery.

[@footbalr074]

Too be fair, most high school wrestling rooms have a certain amount of grind and external motivation, not to mention they do it every single day for a couple months. Its a bit harder on a casual adult schedule.

[@DonWestphal]

footbalr074 most kids who wrestle now a days wrestle year around then a couple a months unless they are a mult-sport kid. I don’t know one adult who wrestles unless they are a coach

[@treroney4720]

mike a judo would be more popular in America if it wasn’t so damn conservative.

[@pntbalndwrestling]

Yes, I agree. Doesn't mean it is impossible.. I push myself the same way daily, but again its kind of part of me now.. either way good point.

[@vincechiefexec]

@mike a So agreed!

[@tommymc7535]

mike a plenary of people worked harder then you all.... your wrestling team isn’t super human 😂. My wrestling team ran a lot, just like every team in America brother.

[@zomiozander6378]

I was the smallest Marine in my unit, and I beat everyone matched up with me with no official grappling experience besides being an all-state wrestler. I never knew how much wrestling helped me, until I was against some of the biggest Marines around.

[@TheHYENA87]

Zomio Zander question for you, how did you finish everyone in your matches. Just curious what a wrestler would do in the situation you described. Was it mostly rear naked chokes? We’re you getting backs easily? As a long time BJJ guy just curious. Thanks for the story.

[@zomiozander6378]

@@TheHYENA87 yes mostly chokes, rear naked and guillotine, ankle locks were relatively easy to get as well. Good assessment

[@zomiozander6378]

@come see me haha the one Marine I couldn't beat was a homeless cagefighter before he joined, one guy you never want to mess with.

[@AmericanTestConstitution]

@@TheHYENA87 a lot off people can figure how to twist peoples joints or choke them just from nonsense like watch pro wrestling and traditional kung fu. The real trick is learning the entire body control that wrestling and jujitsu offers, the non submission stuff: escaping and obtaining Guard, half Guard, mount, shrinking, sit outside, rolls, underhook, etc.

[@TheHYENA87]

Alexander Higgins Yea I agree. Position over submission.

[@marcoramirez313]

At my gym we train all grappling arts and honestly you need the Big 3 grappling trio(Wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, Judo), you need to know multiple takedowns and how to defend them, many submissions from numerous positions, and the unorthodox judo flips people won’t be expecting. These three truly will help your game so much I promise you

[@micaylapresley]

YES! I always ask the wrestlers for tips and help with my stand up and it's made a huge difference in my stand up and top pressure. I did judo first, so I still use it to this day. Jiu-jitsu is the glue that brings it all together and finishes the fight

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Tyron and Ben lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@youngthugr]

@@danielfbc2744 In a street it does

[@bradvincent2586]

I believe that but I also don’t have the time or money to study all 3

[@pigheartsmith2218]

You’re so lucky, wish my gym did that. Im teaching myself judo and wrestling at home and then trying shit in the gym

[@33moneyball]

He’s not proficient in BJJ....he’s a wrestler who’s learned to avoid certain positions. He’s still using his wrestling. And he has years of it. Obviously a dude with an excellent boxing can become serviceable at kickboxing much faster than someone with no training. The skill set crosses over.

[@ryankeels4661]

Yea, he is most certainly not tapping out these blues from the guard because he picked up jiu litsu... hes smashing and grabbing an americana or something

[@PC-qu7zk]

33moneyball that’s literally what he said. He said that as a wrestler he is proficient in Bjj. The skill set crosses over but then there’s a bjj guy who tried to wrestler and the skill set doesn’t cross over so that’s why he thinks wrestling is harder than bjj

[@plasmabolt905]

KasperKen there’s nothing to your argument, it doesn’t even make sense, of course you’re going to get people who grind just as hard in bjj

[@plasmabolt905]

KasperKen Yh you’re talking about lower level bjj fighters, maybe kids that have been doing it for 2 years, any successful bjj fighter will use it when it benefits the fight. Same goes for wrestling

[@plasmabolt905]

KasperKen unless you’re talking about Gordon ryan in which case, he’s merely in it for the sport and now he’s minted

[@adamzoubi96]

I'm a juijitsu guy, not a wrestler but I always feel like these arguments are always unfair to the wrestlers. They always argue wrestlers can't finish fights while juijitsu can. But are we talking about and MMA fight or a BJJ competition??! Ofcourse BJJ wins in a BJJ competition. But in a fight if a wrestler can take you down hold you down and punch your face in I think he wins, a wrestler probably wins more times than a juijitsu guy with no understanding of wrestling. Do I have a point here or what?

[@Gus375]

I definitely agree with you

[@ChrisKing-ou4jq]

Adam zoabi agreed especially considering the effectiveness of slams and hard takedowns u learn in wrestling much much more then u learn in bjj

[@pghbeaster]

Yes, disregard competition rule sets and the wrestler wins as many times as Jocko says BJJ wins in competition. Because you CAN dump someone on their head, and headbutt or whatever else you want in top control

[@rtvrn_to_monke4952]

Not a wrestler but you are correct. If wrestling wasn’t that good, Jiujitsu wouldn’t have absorbed so much technology from Wrestling. Also, in most altercations on the street most jitz your gonna use is the basic fundamentals and those look a lot like wrestling. Take down, take dominant position, use weight and position to hold them down and proceed to pound their face in

[@noahodum9737]

The problem with your argument is factual evidence. I'm speaking as a wrestler here. There's just no evidence of the case when the two fight. Isolation isn't a factor because it isn't repeatable in real life at top level skills-- essentially the UFC or Belator. BJJ has beaten wrestling 9/10 times. :/

[@sefiscool9864]

As a wrestler, I’m saying objectively, that wrestling is the hardest and most important sport of all time.

[@shoeplayisbad1]

when I was young in did high school wrestling hockey, football player both would quit in the warm up. No sport is tougher than wrestling

[@Rob.N.]

@@shoeplayisbad1 6 minutes feels like 6 hours. Wrestled for 5 years(2 years off now), but I really do want and will get back into it.

[@ABCDEF-uz9fd]

Sounds like something a boxer would say 😏

[@thebignacho]

@@shoeplayisbad1 If you can do basic cardio and calisthenics it's not difficult

[@shoeplayisbad1]

@@thebignacho yes it is wrestling is far from basic

[@kronzl2559]

From someone that trains both wrestling and jiu jitsu, Jocko is 100% spot on.

[@DannyBoy426]

I’m planning on joining a local mma gym by me. They offer a 35 day free trial for new members. I’m 22 years old and want to learn Bjj, boxing and wrestling. Is it too late for me to get real good at these and will it be difficult to juggle learning all three?

[@kronzl2559]

@@DannyBoy426 never too late brother.

[@keanenfulton4696]

@@DannyBoy426 Never too late! I started almost 2 years ago at 22 years old, almost to my blue Belt 😃

[@SpI3eR123]

@@kronzl2559 Wud u reccomend starting wrestling first or bjj first. I'm slightly overweight and quite unfit that's why I think bjj will be more sustainable for me to do apposed to the much more physically demanding wrestling classes. I'm 16 what do you think

[@zarbon700]

In the streets...wrestling wins.

[@daultonstoltz8434]

I just started BJJ barely a month ago, and I wrestled in high school for a few years. I can say wrestlers going into BJJ will have way more comfortability and will learn the moves A LOT quicker and easier then one who has not wrestled

[@jwomackandcheese73]

Basic postions are the same. Knowing how to scramble is already built in to wrestling. Aggression and pace are there. Finishing instinct is there.

[@jayp7936]

Yea, its way easier to learn technique than to work on explosiveness and athleticism...

[@reesyman8354]

Soon as Jocko said “when you get good at jiu jitsu” a ad came on that said “you should get firearm insurance” lol. Came in so perfect lol 👌🏿

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Ben Askren lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Tyron and Ben lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@MMAengineer]

@@danielfbc2744 fyi u maybe think u said something but if any combat sport athlete reads this, we just laugh at u for saying stupid sht like that

[@danielfbc2744]

@Remix God he was hoping to hug him haha

[@Trundle_TheGreat]

High school wrestling were some of the best years of my life. Been considering getting into BJJ for a while now, there’s a reputable gym about a half hour from me. Just gotta make the time and find the motivation.....

[@sirsupesafro7637]

Same, bro. Wanting to start at a gym with my uncle, cuz he introduced me to BJJ my freshman year and we scrambled for maybe an hour. Loved every second of it, it was awesome, but haven't had the time to go back since. Now that I've finished my last season, tho, I'm looking forward to scrambling in BJJ

[@micaylapresley]

Just go and watch a class and you'll be motivated. Trust me :)

[@phobowl]

Come to bjj and get choked. You’ll be hooked. I’ve introduced a couple of wrestling friends to bjj n

[@michaelstout7955]

DO IT! It's so much fun. I'm on my 3rd week and have my first tournament coming up on Saturday and I can't describe how much fun BJJ is.

[@harrykeobounhom8356]

Hey brother just checking and hoping you found that drive to hit the gym!

[@busbystandup1337]

Well said gentlemen. I'd would add this, if I may: Jiu Jitsu is beautiful technique and is more effective, but it's a complex language that takes several years to become fluent. However, the intensity of wrestling builds a fighter that can live happily and thrive in extreme discomfort and grinding fatigue, while maintaining intensity. There's an old saying in motorsports... "You can solve a lot of problems with horsepower." Wrestlers have insane horsepower, which can go a long ways against higher level combatants

[@socalbeachieboy6135]

Well remember the fist UFC was fixed. The rules favored the Gracie's

[@Sorel366]

BJJ more effective ? Judokas and wrestlers typically run through bjj guys in bjj rules...

[@tjl4688]

@@socalbeachieboy6135 "The rules"? It was an open challenge and only the Gracies were up to the task. Royce wasn't the only one wearing a uniform. Art Jimmerson even wore shoes. It's not the Gracies' fault that the other fighters had not trained for vale tudo rules.

[@tjl4688]

@@Sorel366 Do they? Last I checked, BJJ is dominated by BJJ dudes, not judoka or wrestlers.

[@demonwiper9434]

I'd take a wrestler over Jiu-Jitsu in a street fight personally, u don't really need to choke someone out when after u suplex them on concrete

[@TheRockerRoller]

demon wiper I agree that a BJJ guy could win against a wrestler in a BJJ competition, but in a MMA match where ground and pound is allowed, I would say wrestler can edge a BJJ practitioner because they are way more physical and stronger. As a guy who trained Muay Thai and boxing, only wrestlers really terrify me.

[@johnmlynczak3336]

@@TheRockerRoller As Jocko said, look at the early UFC where you saw the style matchups between wrestlers and BJJ guys. BJJ guys won 9/10. Royce was a tiny dude taking on and beating Ken Shamrock.That being said, being held down and getting shit beaten out of you where there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, is one of the most terrifying things that can happen to you. Having someone dress up in PJs and hug you really hard doesnt do the same thing mentally even if it is technically more effective

[@TheRockerRoller]

John Mlynczak looking back at early UFC, Gracie brought in something that nobody expected or was trained to counter. Hence this amazing success of BJJ. But then wrestlers caught up with it and they had a pretty good answer to BJJ. Then eventually strikers learned to counter take downs and that made MMA the complex sport we have today, where you need to have a decent level in everything then further develop your preferred game.

[@ChrisARC]

Definitely. Bruce Lee himself has said that someone who’s trained boxing and wrestling for a year can beat a lifelong martial artist in a street fight.

[@seekn.destroy4064]

@@johnmlynczak3336 Ken Shamrock worked his entire career. UFC was in cahoots with the Gracie's. Shamrock just about getting paid. It's just a job.

[@pano6391]

I know a high level wrestler, full ride, success in university, success against international level opponents. Upon beginning bjj, he was immediately effective at gaining positional control over everyone, black belts included, in no gi, and marginally less successful with gi. He wasn't often submitting the high-level guys, he knew how to squeeze someone's neck, but within the point system of bjj he was winning more often than not. He would himself occasionally get caught in triangles and arm bars. In the gi, he had difficulty passing from full guard. Within weeks, he was consistently winning in no gi, often via submissions, kimura and darce. Within a few months he was choking high belts with their own lapels. This was at white belt. Everyone felt much better when he was promoted. Take an equally high level bjj student and he wouldn't have nearly the same success among wrestlers even given much more time. A quality wrestling base lends itself to learning other disciplines better than any other. Edit: I'll add that day one in no gi and the high level belts quickly had no qualms going for heels hooks, etc.

[@jeromes5183]

Pano what you’re describing is simple to explain, and Jocko did it - athleticism. If you’re a D-1 athlete your physical ability is just better. You’re functioning at a higher level. So of course when you’re facing a room full of lower level athletes you are gonna be dominant, but it doesn’t mean a lesser athlete that has a long wrestling background has a “better base.” Just means they’re better at a couple things.

[@John333Scout]

This is true for grappling but many many wrestlers, high levels and very athletic are very poor strikers, there are occasions when they are good (these are usually some of the most gifted and best fighters) but generally, they are too stiff and slow in quick light movements. Aka light on the feet, footwork, ability/dexterity to kick, range of motion, usually to slow or stiff generate the power on kicks or punches. Very strong but don't have the whip or loose shoulders and body flow. It's the little things. It is the same reason that exceptional athletes can usually look ridiculous throwing a baseball (if they didn't do it growing up) it is stiff awkward and very slow and bad. Same thing with kicks and punches. Wrestling does not lend itself to learning high-level striking disciplines very well (Muay Thai, Kick Boxing, Western Boxing, and Karate), only grappling. But if you have a high-level wrestling base and a general natural talent to strike or background in other sports/movements that translate well to striking, then you are a bad MF and most these wrestlers in the UFC talked about are these guys (Jon Jones, Stipe, Cormier, Woodley, Usman, Romero, Cejudo, and etc.)

[@John333Scout]

I do want to add besides just grappling, wrestlers build in other attributes that don't necessarily fit into one discipline of MMA but are needed in the overall understanding and success in the sport. Like confidence, strength, athleticism, toughness, stamina, grit, will/determination, coachability, drilling, and just knowing the work you have to put in to be successful in a combat sport. It can make them a handful in any martial art even if they are poor strikers, they usually are still tough SOBs and a handful.

[@SifuPuma]

Wrestling really is a great base. My niece is only a couple years old and struggles to pick up the finer points of throwing kicks/punches, but shes got a nasty single leg takedown.

[@napalminthemorning8309]

I wrestled in HS and did some BJJ in college, and my favorite guy to go against was this Georgian judo black belt. It’s so fun seeing people from different backgrounds meet in the middle in BJJ. We took each other seriously and it was so fun getting our throws and takedowns in. He was very serious, I think both as a Georgian and judoka it was his attitude. I loved it about him. My BJJ instructor instantly knew I wrestled on my stance alone. I was surprised how few guys in our class had wrestling experience. Like two others. They were fun to roll with too. And they were good. One was from Cali, and he was fun as hell. I wrestled in Vegas so I was used to wrestling Cali wrestlers. And I will say that besides the roughhouse lineman farm boys, the difference between the ones who had wrestling and judo experience vs the pure BJJ guys-even higher ranked belts, it was just different in mindset, grind, toughness and overall attack-style. I was kinda surprised how I would kind of “win the battle” in a way-kind of putting the hurt on them, applying all that pressure and doing what wrestlers do-but the better Jiu Jiteiro would still end up winning the war because they rode it out and knew the submissions. It was fascinating and very fun.

[@PerryMatt]

Love your channel!! Question? What’s the usual injuries you can get in Jiujitsu? I’m thinking to start Jiujitsu, I have a kick-boxing background. I have NO ACL at the moment, but I’ve been training weights and walk all day for work. Does Jiujitsu put a lot of pressure on knees, or I can be safe regards my joint. Love your work

[@pntbalndwrestling]

I've been around wrestling for a long time, participating and coaching, and this is pretty much spot on! Wrestling is great, it will help you with grappling, it is a very demanding sport, and is very intense! Knowledge of submissions alone is just too valuable, even if you are just trying not to get tapped. Like they said, athleticism is one of the biggest things you get from wrestling. The other thing that I find very useful after wrestling for a while is knowing how the body works and how people move in different scenarios. You get that from Jiu Jitsu too, but to the person leaving the comment, going into it with that prior knowledge vs people who may not completely understand that yet is a huge advantage. Also, the "motivation" point was a good one too. Drilling takedowns for hours is no joke, but is necessary for proper technique, all the while knowing there is a much simpler, more practical alternative! Well, that's a wrap.

[@danielsterling4918]

Daaaaaaan Gable

[@MrAlexmiele8910]

Cael Sandersooooooooon

[@irisgonzalez-caulder4817]

@@danielsterling4918 nor me nor Cary your battling God is Spirit truth justice Dan Sterling the name was Dan a blessing Gold Coast School Dan could you let me know the name of a person influenced Jiminez ? Coral Gables and thumbnail picture of a person sued Cary when Nathan on March 9 - 10 moved than 4 days after Cary gets a $23,000 law suit A injustice I couldn't withstand emotionally and not to mention all deceit Nathan or supposedly Nathan said to his Lawyer I just couldn't withstand pain deep in my heart Dan Sterling haircut total transformation and answer question Wrap ? or Well ? changes the truth I wrote

[@irisgonzalez-caulder4817]

@@MrAlexmiele8910 Swink was a blessing

[@danielsterling4918]

@@irisgonzalez-caulder4817 wut...?

[@brucebanner3566]

Wrestling is just grappling without the submissions. Add submissions and you are dangerous.

[@aaronsimpson5417]

TheOne111 I agree. Mr banner seems to have never seen the power and sheer insanity and hate that some of the great wrestlers posses. Jiu jitsu is a good self defense program, sure. But if you wanna learn how to make another man wilt and give up like a coward, wrestling is the key

[@brucebanner3566]

@@aaronsimpson5417 seems? You must be good at assumptions. I grew up around friends who all wrestled. As the one put it, position before submissions. Read what I put and this time try to interpret it or just ignore it. It's not that serious, just an opinion, besides any style can win in a fight, it's more about the practioner and less about the style. Keep in mind Royce Gracie beat lots of oponnents consecutively in a row in one night, quite a few times using less energy than his opponents. Everyone is good at different skills. Wrestlings early history always included submissions, they had to take the good stuff out to be able to teach it in school or a lot of kids would go around beating people up I'm guessing.

[@andrewgiegerich5526]

@@brucebanner3566 remember Matt Hughes vs Gracie lol

[@alantinoalantonio]

@@andrewgiegerich5526 Yep, but look at Marcelo Garcia training with Ben Askren. Marcelo could of killed him whenever he felt like it.

[@andrewgiegerich5526]

@@alantinoalantonio yea when they are rolling jits in a real fight he would have to take ben askren down And ben isn't even great on his feet in wrestling

[@stephengreco5106]

I wrestled all through high school and ended up qualifying for the state tournament my Senior year. Roughly 3 years later, while I was in college, a friend took me to a number of Jiu Jitsu classes (I went 2 times a week for 4 weeks). Right when I arrived I destroyed the beginners and got moved up to the intermediate group (blue belts). I did very well with them and it was very competitive. I was much better on my feet than the Jiu Jitsu guys. I also tended to have better endurance and many of the stances and positions already felt natural. I was winning often after about 2 weeks. There were 3 more advanced guys there and I joined them briefly. I took one of them down once and then that was the last good thing that I did. I proceeded to get the crap kicked out of my for about 40 minutes. I learned that wresting can only get you so far and once someone really knows Jiu Jitsu a wrestler can only do so much.

[@timlamb1156]

Agreed, there is a level you reach where you need to add tools to your game to keep progressing. I also think that folkstyle is not as effective as freestyle to learn to flow while doing bjj.

[@ws8061]

IME a lot of the more inexperienced BJJ guys kinda get a little bit of a chip on their shoulder and wanna prove they can wrestle with you (they can't most times) but the more experienced guys know wrestling a wrestler is dumb, you beat the wrestler with your BJJ. Basically what they were saying at the end there.

[@KKSuited]

@@timlamb1156 disagree. Freestylers spend very little time on the ground and when they do, the types of attacks used aren't as applicable. Folkstylers have to be solid on the feet and on the ground. That ground time results in more solid top control and mat returns. Yoel Romero is a perfect example. He could takedown anyone, but he wasn't ever efficient on the ground. Ben Askren on the other hand crawled all over BJJ black belts (except Maia but Maia is Maia).

[@timlamb1156]

@@KKSuited I typed that wrong, I agree with you, just typed it wrong

[@timlamb1156]

@@ws8061 that’s a two way street, it takes much longer for a bjj guy to pick up wrestling in my experience, wrestlers generall adjust in 6 months or less and generally pick up technique quickly. But most bjj guys are not good at takedowns, I honestly think most older bjj guys, over 18 never really learn to understand push pull takedowns, seems like they can pick up the defense decently, but offense wrestling is a thing that is best developed in youth.

[@brandonmcninja]

Both compliment each other beautifully. Great podcast, Jocko

[@teamhazardous201]

Judo is often neglected as an alternative to wrestling for Jiu Jitsu players.

[@PeterHartog]

because modern Judo doesn't allow low-body takedowns anymore (like single/double leg takedowns), which are quite common in BJJ

[@teamhazardous201]

@@PeterHartog good point. Gotta go old school with the judo. Also the modern judo is like greco-roman wrestling. They also don't attack the legs.

[@AztecUnshaven]

@@PeterHartog indeed, but in the older days (early 20th century) Judo was Jiujitsu and Jiujitsu was Judo, it was all united and very well rounded. Takedowns were emphasized to be damaging and brutal to your enemy, often spiking the opponent on their head. Wrestling back then also had plenty of submissions thanks to Catch Wrestling. Both Mitsuyo Maeda and Kimura came across many Catch Wrestlers in their time. This used to be a big part of Kungfu styles too, as Shuajiao clinch throws and single legs were a big part of Kungfu's training, together with strikes, kicks, locks etc...

[@teamhazardous201]

@@AztecUnshaven my MMA system preaches that same thing. Judo is Jujutsu. Jujutsu (Japanese) is the father system that BJJ and Judo derived so they are meant to together.

[@jedijudoka]

Team Hazardous you can attack the legs with your own legs, you just can’t use your hands. Greco is no tripping either.

[@guillaumeparola]

I train BJJ and just picked some Wrestling class for fun. I definitely got my BJJ better after a few hours of Wrestling due to two main factors: getting people to the ground + using your "head" to push your opponent and facilitate transitions. Probably due to my lack of experience (white belt) but so far haven't seen the "head" being so much used in BJJ vs Wrestling.

[@LtGlenn]

Once you transition to blue belt they'll start teaching you about the head as a limb, it can be overwhelming for those getting the basics down. Agreed though wrestling fills several gaps but I like NO GI as a balance

[@micaylapresley]

We use the head for everything in Jiu-jitsu. You're still learning fundamentals, but you'll see later :)

[@strongbear3369]

Wrestler here, I learned how to cable choke and immediately was able to go toe to toe with some JuJitsu buddies

[@micaylapresley]

How many years did you wrestle and how many years did they grapple?

[@strongbear3369]

@@micaylapresley Been wrestling 6 years. The guys I grappled with had just about the same experience as I did but in Jujitsu. Both right around 170 in weight.

[@grantmacias9437]

ok and same, vice versa so it really doesn’t matter me and my friend(wrestler) had a friendly fight and he couldn’t take me down and i just caught him in a guillotine and my friend was a legit wrestler he wasn’t bad so it’s whatever both are good

[@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595]

I think what some people don’t want to admit, is that while wrestling and bjj are both legit, people are ignoring the grappling tactics/personality of the given 2 people grappling. Wrestler A might beat BJJ guy A , but not BJJ guy b. But Wrestler B might beat BJJ guy b but not BJJ guy A.

[@hammer12482]

@@grantmacias9437 I've trained in several gyms and if I had a nickel every time I've gotten a back from a simple double leg or single I'd have about $10. Jiu jitsu people don't train takedowns enough. I've specifically had instructors add lessons on basic wrestling to counter noobs entering gyms... me. They are solid in jiu jitsu, but its annoying when a newbie taps you from a quick rear choke.

[@danielashman1753]

Great analysis Mr. Willink! Insightful and some good stuff here I hadn't considered.

[@andrewsanborn603]

I’m taking my third jiu jitsu class on Sunday so far it’s been so much fun. Thank you for motivating me daily jocko

[@frankcastle5426]

Expect to get crushed for six months. you will he able to beat most new guys that join after you. :)

[@andrewsanborn603]

Frank Castle I enjoy it so far because when you do get tapped they will always show you how and what to do to combat it

[@alfredmohammed9197]

How’s it going now I just started myself and I love it!

[@C0d0ps]

How’re you doting 2y later? I have been doing mma on and off for 1 year going on 2y in autumn Starting bjj in autumn for first time gonna be super fun

[@danielsterling4918]

*Daaaaaaan Gable*

[@jason1602]

Legend

[@diggles1374]

GOAT

[@mpmcarthur1371]

Amazing dude

[@AJHDC]

This is spot on. I rarely hear such an accurate take - Appreciate it Jocko.

[@jacobjohn378]

I'm glad to hear your perspective Jocko. Thank you.

[@earsonlyaudio887]

I was a wrestler for 6 years and reasonably good at it. The entire debate between these two forms of the best sport in the world seems pointless. If you achieve a certain amount of success, in either form of grapling, you are one of the most elete athletes in the world. You have a combination of strength, speed, agility, mental toughness that surpasses the very top competitors in other sports. You are the toughest of the tough, the baddest of the bad. Anybody willing to step on a mat where you know with complete certainty that the other guy is going to try ripping you limb from limb, and they've trained hard for years just to come whip your ass, right here, today, their only reason for even showing up is to take you down and stomp on your dream of reaching the top, my friend, anybody who is willing to face that down and fight back is a bad ass son of a gun. Hat's off to you, regardless of what form of grapling you choose.

[@Viroh]

Did you watch the video? They argued that in the end, jiujitsu will triumph and is more time effective, so why not go with a more effective instead of less effective. Life is short.

[@max_grapples5234]

VirohXL Ears only wasn’t talking about combat effectiveness but rather mental effectiveness

[@LtGlenn]

Completely agree, really this arguments/discussions mostly serve the point of nerding out for enthusiasts, which I'm all about also. But we can all agree, if you grapple... Respect

[@billdavis3183]

@@Viroh BJJ will triumph in a BJJ match. Take it outside and see if takedowns don't matter after you get your head slammed into the concrete. BJJ and wrestling are complementary.

[@MikookNamja]

Wrestling is a serious competitive sport with better trained and disciplined athletes. Jiu jitsu is more fun and more inclusive.

[@Lastkingofulster]

One advantage I had when I started BJJ was my fitness from gym, Gaelic football and rugby, I trained competively in those sports and it gave me a better mindset to learn plus rugby tackle made it easier to learn takedowns

[@ryanm7310]

This is really accurate. I remember going to jiujitsu for the first time I was 27 had not done a sport since college and was smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. However I did wrestle from about 8 to 18 so I had that background. The first weeks were tough cause I was so out of shape. But even then I did not have much trouble with any white belts. After a few months I was able to control and submit white belts no problem and a lot of the blue belts also. What I found that helped a lot was my coach saying don’t fight for submissions fight for position. So I would take people down and just stay super heavy on top until a submission would present itself. I also had no problem laying on my back playing my guard. I didn’t necessarily have an offensive guard but it would allow me to catch my breath and explode. Unfortunately I tore my mcl and haven’t been back since July 🤦🏻‍♂️......but plan on getting back into. Jiujitsu and wrestling are both awesome humbling sports.

[@af4396]

Excellent points, and furthermore, most wrestlers learn when they are kids. Trying teaching a 35 year old who joined BJJ (or even some unathletic 20 year olds) to move between bent postures and shoot to their knees. Even learning to put your weight on your heel instead of your knee when you shoot properly is difficult. And in BJJ, you don't need to do that. You can definitely defend it, but you may as well use Judo (also hard to master, but it's much more conservative in energy usage).

[@Reddogg387]

35 isn’t 55. Many 35 year olds are still in their prime

[@slipperysteve8]

If your weight is on your heel when you are shooting you are doing it wrong

[@calebmills8809]

At my BJJ/mma school we get taught both of them. In many ways it's just a grappling class then focusing on one of the arts exclusively. The entire gym kills it in competition and I think that's a HUGE factor in it. It's much harder to exploit a weakness when you have your bases covered at the begining and then specialize later

[@alrumuller9300]

I rolled a whole bunch with a friend and his brother, both of which were wrestlers on a national level. The takedowns and ability to hold position was absolutely insane. The only problem is, when wrestlers train and compete, their game stops where jiu jitsu is only getting warmed up. So obviously they started picking up submissions and such, but the instinct to relax as soon as my back was on the ground never wore off.

[@jrtien]

I am blessed to have access to an instructor who focuses heavily on wrestling takedowns and solid jiujitsu. Part of me hates the grind of wrestling technique, but exposure and proficiency in wrestling technique and jiujitsu is truly formidable.

[@papiglover5111]

The fact that he considers wrestling a martial art makes me respect him more

[@DavidPat]

As a wrestler, I had a really hard time adjusting to the idea that someone can do what is known to be illegal in collegiate wrestling 😅 . The concepts of Jiu-Jitsu make sense to me though just because I've had years of practicing leverage, hand control and balance.

[@staticunion9508]

I think we should add more wrestling type moves into all bjj classes. It would make bjj unstoppable

[@Anonymous-go7if]

Exactly! I’m a purple belt, compete at European champs etc my ground game is super strong, super strong. But standing I am on the vulnerable side.

[@thomasjudy3580]

Welcome to judo

[@thomasjudy3580]

Thank you. My kids coach is a us champion in Greco and freestyle. He got choked out in a match and has explained how to choke others using the headlock. Furthermore a double wrist lock is a hammer lock is a kimura.

[@kingetzel2755]

At what point would it cease to be bjj and just revert back to catch wrestling though? Because a surprising amount of bjj submissions stem from catch wrestling. The primary difference is (to my understanding) catch wrestling is more about applying submissions to regain the top position, as opposed to intentionally fighting from your back.

[@Elienguitar]

Recommended video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/goPVe3qijNqdock State Champ Wrestler vs. Purple Belt BJJ

[@Syndister]

I’m Australian, played rugby my whole life. I picked up wrestling straight away, it is not difficult for me. Jiu jitsu on the other hand I really struggle off my back. I’m ok on top and controlling people but put me on my back and I’m fairly fucked - I usually just resort to scrambling and wrestling to get to my feet, especially while sparring.

[@Deege2]

Alphonzo “fairy fucked” Lmaoo I love that phrase 🤙🏾

[@Deege2]

Fairly

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Tyron and Ben lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@kylebulldog2115]

Keep going my friend..keep going and keep going, Until you're good off your back !!

[@ws8061]

I didn't play rugby but in the Navy we had a club and some of the rugby guys would come down to the Mats to learn. One thing I found interesting a lot of the fundamentals and ideas from the scrum on head position, leverage, and control are somewhat similar to those in grappling and more specifically wrestling.

[@vespaman101]

I was president of my universities MMA club and I also formerly wrestled in high school. It was so difficult teaching my guys to wrestle. They constantly challenged the notion of fighting off pins and fighting to defend to get takedowns. They failed to see the efficacy of it. And it was nearly impossible to teach them because they constantly wanted to pull guard or easily went to their backs. They rarely fought for the takedowns. Its extremely hard to teach someone who has that jiujitsu background the importance of simply wrestling. The only way I could was by smashing them and forcing them to learn.

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Ben Askren lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@vespaman101]

@@danielfbc2744 that was a boxing match. Not a fight. No wrestling allowed.

[@danielfbc2744]

@@vespaman101 yes! Wrestling doesn’t teach you how to finish a fight

[@vespaman101]

@@danielfbc2744 that's fine it doesn't have to. It teaches you how to gain dominant position. Which is then used to finish fights. If this was a bout where Askren was allowed to wrestle Jake paul wouldn't be able to win. He was caught in a clinch in that fight. Is Askren could have continued to wrestle all of his punching would be nullified.

[@danielfbc2744]

@@vespaman101 Positions are great. BJJ, boxing, Muay Thai end fights. Therefore, wrestling is a inferior or incomplete “martial art”

[@mwithers13]

Listening to you guys talk grappling is pure gold. Thank you for the tips. A lot of gems dropped here. One of my coaches was a D1 wrestler and whenever I can I try to drill as much wrestling as possible to get that motor going

[@jackjack4412]

Do you drill solo or with a partner?

[@adamlv1]

I started wrestling around my 5th grade year in school and I was immediately pretty successful at it. I won district championships 6th, 7th, and 8th grade and did some freestyle on the side. I was a 4 sport athlete to start, doing every sport that was available for me in middle school. My freshman year in high school I remember I was on the football field and it was halfway through the season and a few of the popular kids got to play every second of every game and I had played maybe 2 plays on defense at the very end after the game was already won or lost. One game, I was just chilling on the sidelines and a receiver for the other team had caught a pass and was flying right at me and all I did was put my arms up and deflected him off me so he wouldn’t smash me. Well I guess the refs thought I needed to catch him. He bounced off me and flew about 15 feet behind me into a concrete wall. I could hardly believe what happened, whistles were blowing and people were all screaming and yelling. I had teammates laughing and cheering me on telling me it was funny as hell, the coaches from the other team were screaming about it and I had no idea what happened. But when I looked down and saw the kid on the ground upside down against that wall behind me I seen between his face mask and realized it was a kid that used to pick on me back in elementary school. Some of the guys on my team remembered him and it was a great payback, but completely inadvertent. I was celebrated as the “stick” of the week for that, and it was by accident on the sideline. That was when I quit football, and all other sports and I became a wrestler all year round. Those early years in wrestling were crucial because we do not naturally know how to manipulate another human body that is pressing on you. So only after years of wrestling do you start to develop those fundamental skills that make it so you can grab onto another person and push or pull or tie and Schuck him off and you can set up your offense based on the kniwledge you have that his body will react a certain way to all of those movements. The best way to set up a great throw is to give him a good hard shove and he will automatically push back into you because he doesn’t want to get run off the mat. The moment you shove into him then you don’t have to wait for him to react, you already know it’s going to happen, and you can just fold down below him and throw him in a head & arm and his momentum will carry him right over the top of you. Wrestling is unparalleled in preparing someone for combat. Because just in my wrestling careeer because it was so popular and during the season we had duals every week and tournaments every weekend, I wrestled I estimate 400 matches. There is no other discipline that would give you even close to 400 live matches of experience against other opponents that also work hard at wrestling. It’s not a joke. My senior year in high school I wrestled 50 matches alone and I went 36-14 and got 4th in the state tournament. After that much live wrestling for so many years there is nothing to grabbing onto another human being and exacting forces necessary to subdue them any way you choose. It is all second nature by this point. If a wrestler grabs hold of a guy that never wrestled he can do any number of moves on him and before that person has even figured out what is hsppening to them, the wrestler could have shot a double leg, lifted with his hips and jacked him high in the air, and as the guy is falling transition into a leg ride so even before they hit the ground the wrestler would already be working on his 4th or 5th move and the guy that hit the ground has no idea what is happening. Wrestling is just a must to develop those fundamentals to be perfectly comfortable grabbing people and having them grab you.

[@gibbjonathan22]

This was a great video, watched it twice.

[@timtimkthy2945]

This video deserves to be as long as it it for this question

[@cameronc4131]

I came over from wrestling to jiu jitsu late in high school and I just wasn't getting it. I remember having a clear thought around a month in that everything I was learning in jiu jitsu made perfect natural sense to me, but i was carrying over too many bad habits from wrestling and I was frustrated with the pacing like Jocko said. I've never had someone explain it like that and I'm glad I'm not the only one with that issue

[@NoelWesley]

I agree with learning how to break the rules of wrestling. I'm lucky I had a great Instructor back in the '90's, David Kilpin. He taught us a few "other" holds that came in handy later in my Security career which saved my life on a few occassions.

[@Frey808]

This is the only discussion I've found on the subject of wrestling & BJJ. 100% agree with everything said. I'm an NCAA experienced wrestler at a loss to finishing or submitting. Also, gassing out is a huge self-inflicted issue. Thanks Joko! Now I need a good resource to translate my wrestling experiance to BJJ in an efficient manner.

[@LtGlenn]

I never wrestled (actually I quit after a week as a freshman in high school because it was too tough for me at that point) but I have incredible respect for wrestlers. The period where you can almost laugh at how easy it is to submit them is relatively short lived. Their minds are IMPRINTED to pay attention and work harder than pretty much any athlete. (I've also learned it takes a lot of effort for them to understand the idea of a slow roll 😅) As long as they maintain that open mindedness and a bit of humility they will learn fast. Agree that the other way around is much harder, and coming from a guy with knee injuries pure wrestling is too high risk for me to engage in training regularly. I think we can all agree NO GI is a lovely balance and all have their place. 🤝

[@xGatorchomp28x]

Is NO GI the lowest chance of injury?

[@scott8049]

I quit freshman year too. It was the compound fracture accident that I witnessed.

[@loganleroy8622]

As a D1 wrestler I got the chance to train Judo and BJJ for 3 months. The idea of a “slow roll” was crazy to me. It just screamed of laziness and not wanting to push yourself to be better. Of course I made mistakes, because certain good positions in wrestling are disadvantageous in other styles, but I could keep popping back up and they were so exhausted. The idea should be to train as hard as possible and push yourself to your physical limits to build your endurance

[@JacksonHighlander]

At 5:55, I'd also add endurance/stamina. I could wrestle through 10 minutes at one point. Thats alot of bullying around.

[@jeffshackleford3152]

Smart as well

[@UserName-ii1ce]

If u do BJJ look into Sub Only. At my tournament 2 old dudes fought for an hour straight. That is one match lmao

[@LonersGuide]

Stamina is huge in wrestling.

[@danielfbc2744]

Wrestlers are so weak on endurece that they added rounds to give advantage to them! It’s just a stupid point system to spend rounds hugging! Wrestlers = zero effectiveness in real world!

[@dragonthebeast730]

@@danielfbc2744 damn.no wonder more than half the ufc champions are wrestlers

[@scotturban54]

Thanks for posting

[@TheSportsWarriors]

Thanks for the amazing video.

[@dlucasgalt]

Did jujitsu for awhile and after 6 months of 6 days a week for 4-6 hours a day sometimes longer on the Saturdays. I felt that the toughest guy was this college level wrestler who trained in bjj occasionally. When I started, I couldn't beat him, by the time I was done it was a great match and occasionally I could get the tap. I personally feel that having no wrestling background was a huge disadvantage, but definitely could tell that given a little more time in bjj i would be consistently tapping him. Even he complemented me on the growth in my training. But I have no doubts at all, that had he been able to train in bjj as often as I was, with his feel for life on the ground, I would've never been a match for him. If I was starting over I would get all the wrestling I could until I was at least a blue belt in bjj simply for the raw development that wrestling seems to have. Just my opinion.

[@hailhydreigon2700]

With the exception of Greco-Roman, the popular wrestling styles like Folkstyle and Freestyle are just submission-less versions of Catch-As-Catch-Can. Real Wrestling always had submission holds in it.

[@user-bn3kg6hg4i]

@Hail Hydreigon Facts

[@jimmybamslam]

I got my son into a wrestling program to help with his jits game.... it has helped his jits game immensely. He now has a good top game AND bottom game.

[@augmenticacreations2151]

3 years into my jitsu and im just learning how to mix wrestling with bjj. I had to learn what to take out my game. Like going to back, strength energy etc. Now ive learned to slow down wait and explode but also finish

[@ElCapitan88]

Wrestlers are tough. I have such a hard time with wrestlers.

[@phantom_mist1726]

They are but they are also fun to roll with.

[@danarmando537]

As a wrestler, Jew Jet Suits are fun to toss around. 6 out of 10 UFC Champions come from Collegiate wrestling, enough said.

[@datmemexd501]

Dan Armando Jew Jet Suits and Collegiates

[@sonicfx5431]

@A Grundledore Wrestlers open up for triangles so much and they give their back too easily

[@greoricm771]

Even wrestlers have a hard time with wrestlers bruh.

[@jacobbrendle1508]

I like how he says your first competition you don't expect that intensity and it's so true. I've always been super dominant in my jiu jitsu. When I started I was 230 pounds pretty shredded and I was so dominant in the training room subbing blue belts and holding my own with purple belts then I got into my first competition(1 month in) and it was a whole different ball game I ended up getting third place winning two of my matches out of four but my very first match was utterly dominated and submitted in a minute by a guy who I should have beat 100% because I couldn't match that intensity right off the bat. So funny to look back at that now how much stronger I was back then but how easy it would be for future me to kill past me even after losing 30 lb of muscle.

[@xerodefects]

My first BJJ tournament really hit me hard in so many ways I wasn't prepared for. I had never rolled in front of hundreds of people which made me nervous the second I realized it on the mat. My first opponent was missing a hand and that kind of threw me off. Was beat in less than a minute. I was really mad at that loss. Thankful for the opportunity to try again my next opponent I went full agro. Ref said go, I grabbed the dudes collar whipping him up and down. He tells me to take it easy and I knew right there this match is mine. Got a triangle choke seconds later and my first bronze medal.

[@panosts6178]

If Sambo was easy it would be called jiu-jitsu -Khabib Nurmagomedov It kind of is one sport in Russia

[@edoardobertini4614]

That shirt was joke. Khabib was trolling.

[@alexrandell9199]

@@edoardobertini4614 of course he was, Khabib loves to poke fun

[@wayne47able]

And every athlete from Russia is literally on steroids, that’s why they got kicked out of the olympics

[@alexrandell9199]

@@wayne47able I don’t think the Dagestan guys are juicing, given the UFC testing policy

[@wayne47able]

@@alexrandell9199 Dagestan is part of Russia and fighters know how to cycle on and off drugs to avoid a dirty test.

[@jacksondunphey2620]

As someone who wrestled in highs school, I fell in love with it and I miss it. There isn’t much access to wrestling after graduation except collegiate level, but I’m not going to college. I went to an open mat at a Jiu Jitsu academy today and there are a lot of good habits that carry through, yet I do have trouble with getting on my back and not immediately wanting to escape when I’m on bottom. Everything jocko said is 100% accurate and I’m looking forward to training Jiu Jitsu in the future with this breakdown. Thank guys

[@bobfaam5215]

Catch wrestling has much more submission holds than BJJ and these submission holds are brutal too . Also catch has takedowns and throws too .

[@barryirvingj1813]

You got Pro Wrestling, Collegiate Wrestling & you got MMA

[@bobfaam5215]

@@barryirvingj1813 MMA is not exactly wrestling. U can use any martial art in MMA . Pro wrestling is essential pre worked out catch wrestling 🤼‍♀️

[@crazyhdvids4486]

Wrestling is great to have in your back pocket when learning Jiu-Jitsu because wrestlers have amazing top control

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Tyron and Ben lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@loganleroy8622]

That’s because wrestling is entirely about controlling your opponent against his will, without being allowed to hurt him to encourage him to bend to your will.

[@paulboston992]

Thanks guys, good explanation and commentary. And what about wresling vs judo, what would you say about it?

[@joshsoliva95.]

Catch Wrestling SAKURABA!!!!! Wrestling with submissions is the pure wrestling

[@lastmanstanding5423]

Catch-As-Catch-Can is the pinnacle of grappling

[@filthersea3664]

I’m a former high school wrestler, who just started doing jujitsu last week. I have no problem taking people down. But he is correct once I got to the ground, I had no idea how to finish which led to me getting tapped multiple times.

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Ben Askren lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@filthersea3664]

@@danielfbc2744 Next time you’re in a fight, double leg someone then drop them on their head I guarantee you the fight will be over

[@LUKERJ]

Ben Askren boxed Jake Paul. He was not allowed to wrestle or take him down.

[@TheRedHaze3]

@@filthersea3664 Depending on the surface, the fight isn't the only thing that will be over..

[@vinjoaquin]

Great video ! My son is 11, has been doing Bjj since 5, started wrestling at 8, and is having a hard time with wrestling. He says he feels very limited on what he can do when wrestling.

[@timlamb1156]

Different sports, at that young age I think it's confusing to change back and fourth, stick with it though, the wrestling is very valuable in bjj.

[@biggestbeast1495]

You had a wrestling core foundation to bring along with you to your first ever jiu jitsu class. This helped you progress significantly faster than someone who wouldn't have that core wrestling foundation brought to their first ever bjj class. In my opinion... but hey what do I know.

[@dominicpassanisi4964]

Everything he’s said in the first 5 minutes so far is spot on

[@treroney4720]

Where my judokas at??

[@Steve-gj3gf]

Tre roney... that is what I was wondering. My kids train in all, the adult jiu jitsu class is packed, yet only a few regularly are in judo. Sensei says they don't like hitting the ground. Wrestling is by far the most challenging physically and mentally for my kids. Order of difficulty for them: wrestling, judo, jiu jitsu, kick boxing.

[@treroney4720]

Steve 4321 they were created together. The judokas of yesteryear were very proficient on the ground and standing. (Kano, Mayeda, etc.) The Gracies were the ones who were specialized on the ground. One could argue this was detrimental to Bjj

[@keithreynolds1191]

Yeah here my dude love judo and will keep doing it!!!

[@ethanbatman6623]

I am in my last hear of high school wrestling and I think its 100 percent the mindset that sets wrestlers apart in BJJ or MMA, as a wrestler, you NEED to be aggressive, you are ALWAYS looking for an opening to attack and are so much more used to getting the shit beat out of them and how to take it.

[@andrewsobush5475]

I went from jui jitsu to high school wrestling it took awhile to unlearn being comfortable on my back. However the jui jitsu taught me slick reversals on the mat. I used to get in trouble for attempting submissions after takedown a lot because the position was right there. My favorite is the anaconda choke instead of the gator roll. It follows the head and arm rule in wrestling.

[@brandonahmed5859]

It sounds like wrestling & bjj combined would be the ultimate grapple game. The takedowns plus the submissions

[@CodyBunker]

Ju jitzu is the more deadly art but that is by design. Wrestling is by far the most difficult thing on the face of the earth. I have never done anything as difficult as wrestling. I train jiu jitzu now and it is great but nowhere near as tough and brutal as wrestling. In a fight between a pure jiu jitzu and a jiu jitzu guy with wrestling background, the wrestling background wins every time.

[@treroney4720]

cody bunker Neiman Gracie tapped out Ed Ruth. So I wouldn’t say every time. But definitely the majority of the time

[@johnmarzelli4381]

The fact that you can’t even spell Jiu Jitsu correctly makes me question your background. There are plenty of variables to consider but plenty of examples where pure jiu jitsu has beaten wrestling. Early underground no holds barred fighting proves this.

[@treroney4720]

goatbacon Demain Maia tapped out Chael, Gracie tapped out Ed Ruth And Maia tapped out Ben Askren! One of the greatest wrestlers to ever compete in mma

[@microfarmers]

I wrestled for one year & studied Judo/Jujitsu for three years. I'm not an expert at either, but in a controlled setting I would give the edge to wrestling due to it's aggressive nature. I've been in a few spontaneous random fights and my Jujitsu training seemed to be more practical in that arena. I guess it would just come down to three things Skill, aggression and luck. Assuming the contestants are of equal physical stats. Great podcast!

[@lm10_dxz91]

How did you use your Jiu Jitsu in these fights?

[@jamesfoster7735]

We had a weird dynamic in our gym. 80 percent of the crew were wrestlers in high school and/or junior college. We had the edge on takedowns and control. Top game heavy. Now add in solid BJJ fundamentals and those young people were smashing it in competition.

[@fuzzysgaming7905]

Just putting this out there nearly every pin i would use i later found out was submissions used in bjj. A good example is of some is using your opponent’s arm to choke them out and the guillotine

[@joco8700]

As a former NCAA wrestler who has played around rolling with a couple BJJ guys, this is pretty spot on. I can take them down pretty much at will but then don’t really know what to do. I can usually keep from getting into a bad position but most of the time, I just want to learn some technique, not flail and try to dominate with strength alone.

[@thac0twenty377]

whatever coach said don't do, do it lol. same issue

[@natefarmer5840]

As a former long time wrestler and a new BJJ student, I've been thinking about this recently. My sample size for BJJ is small as well so I could very well be wrong. I believe that the disconnect between the two styles happens in the training. Wrestlers are taught aggression and intensity. "Make them feel your power!" "Break them!" All things that were screamed at me since I was 5. I was in constant competition with my teammates. The BJJ community is much more supportive toward each other. Training is much more civilized. Hardly anyone loses their cool. I agree with Jocko's assessment that all things being equal aBJJ player beats a wrestler. But I would add that a wrestler can pick up Jiu Jitsu fast than a JJ player can pick up wrestling due to the aggressive mindset alone. No hate. Love them both.

[@davema2614]

Beautiful answer, and discussion.

[@paulodeoliveira7725]

Just one question: What happens when you add ground and pound on the mix?

[@garyanderson4685]

Don't forget about the high level of mental toughness developed in wrestling. Tenacity, drive, pain tolerance.........

[@danielfbc2744]

Sorry to bother you!!! Ben Askren lost for a KZbinr!!!!!!! Wrestling doesn't end fights!!! Wrestling = hugging

[@freddylisy10]

@@danielfbc2744 if the wrestlers doesn’t know any good pinning combinations like the arm bar, three quarter Nelson bundle and other shit like that it’s not just two dudes hugging and if they didn’t develop a mean cross face to get those pinning combinations

[@karlchristie1856]

I relate to this video so much! I've done BJJ for a semester, coming in with a wrestling background I was told I was burning hot. After two months though I tapped blue belts every once in a while.

[@danielfbc2744]

Hahahahaha without BJJ you are just a hugger!!!

[@micaylapresley]

Because you've been wrestling a lot longer than the blue belts. Go with grapplers with the same number of years on the mats for a better comparison. There's definitely a crossover. It's awesome you tried it out :)

[@karlchristie1856]

@@micaylapresley You're right and I failed to mention that one of those blue belts was like 40 and I'm 23, 6'4 and 220 so I typically have more physicality to leverage on less experienced opponents. For instance whenever the older guy would get side control I'd put my arm over the back of his neck and roll him over the top so that I'd end up in side control. This move is super easy to counter with a von Flue choke... which I've tapped to more times than I care to admit... Either way it's been a fantastic learning experience and I can't wait to do more of it.

[@lifeanimation3093]

I was privileged to have my Jiu jitsu coach also be the lead wrestling coach at the high school and he was also a College wrestler in his youth so we got a lot of wrestling in and he would invite his top wrestlers to the gym all the time and just wrestlers he knew.

[@adrianacosta8868]

This is true, I’m barely a one stripe white belt but this new guy started showing up to our no gi class, he’s a really solid wrestler his takedowns were insane but he couldn’t finish them and I ended up tapping him out multiple times. He’s been showing up for some weeks now and is getting better as his jiu jitsu is getting better.

[@BobBob-il2ku]

Blue belt in a year? My coach must be a sandbagged it normally takes 2+ years where I’m at

[@Armbarmitzvah]

A year if you’re good. Average 2 years.

[@Sutherlinite]

Haha yeah I'm a 2-striper at the one year mark

[@willstrong6951]

Back in the old days, you only got a blue belt, when you started beating other blue belts. Is it still like that?

[@BobBob-il2ku]

Will Strong in my school it is unless they’ve been a blue belt for a long time bordering on purple

[@druberry6570]

I started jiujitsu at 19 been at it for a year and am at my 4th degree👌🏾 keep grinding boys blue belt is still beginner

[@EverteFarnell]

There are places you can still learn catch wrestling, submissions included.

[@sandipanroy3106]

No clue about either of the sport. Just a random thought. How do you define the 'win' between a Wrestler and a BJJ Expert ? I've been hearing this term again and again but those two martial arts score you points differently right? Or do they mean submitting someone as 'win'? Or maybe, slamming someone to the ground and pounding him and knocking him out counts as a 'win' ?

[@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595]

Points is one thing, but getting knocked out, or getting choked out, or having a broken limb is a lot more definitive.

[@skymanchronicles8936]

BJJ is an incredible skill to have for any martial arts competition, wrestling is an incredible skill for a street fight or anything else that may confront you in real life.

[@cjb8001]

Baseball/softball is a pretty good analogy. Wrestlers catch on really quick. They usually don’t know any subs and go belly down too much

[@BeastV33]

Cj B nah I just take down guys and try to get behind people and choke them out

[@Exiecutioner]

I’m a pro MMA fighter 33 now started wrestling when I was 12 I had my first mma or jiujitsu class I was choked out by a 4”11 Girl. The knowledge of use of leverage on singular joints is far more effective in a combat scenario than pure wrestling anyone can punch someone or elbow them A good jujitsu player will elbow you from the bottom if in a street fight scenario The ability to take somebody down and hold them on the ground does not necessarily translate into winning and for people that argue that wrestling is harder yes the training is harder but also it’s seasonal where is jujitsu you train year-round most people weren’t wrestling year round im a wrestler first bu I respect bjj to the fullest wrestlers will roll to their stomach every Time you grapple with them out of habit in a fight this is a deadly mistake

[@DannyBoy426]

I’m planning on joining a local mma gym. I want to learn wrestling, bjj and boxing. Will it be difficult for me to learn and juggle all three? I’m 22 years old.

[@Exiecutioner]

@@DannyBoy426 you are the perfect age my friend train hard and often but don’t forget to rest 😎🙌🏾

[@BMill88]

I started out wrestling and have 2 years BJJ experience and am a blue belt. I feel like I do most well against other wrestlers as they seem to fall into submissions easier. I definitely have a wrestling style to my bjj but I had to learn to be patient instead of rushing everything.

[@Balbs77]

Jocko's point about wrestlers who fail to adopt the slower pace of BJJ is so true. Took a little while to force myself out of that.

[@Chiddychild]

I just had that epiphany very recently. I wanna become a well rounded Grappler. I wanna know what to do standing and on the ground. To me it’s one thing. On the streets if you can take down someone the fight can already be over. If not, keep using JiuJitsu. Thinking more like a MMA guy got me there. Strinking and kicking = first line of defense. Takedowns = second line. Ground game = last line of defense. I wanna get knowledgeable and confident in all, but a master in GRAPPLING!

[@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595]

Judo or wrestling

[@richstafford1245]

Bo Nickel lol. Literally walked into a BJJ gym for the first time and stalemated a black belt instructor…

[@buddy22801012]

I practiced judo for 30 years and competed for years. After high school and college many guys started judo because there was few places to wrestle in the 70s and 80s. Wrestlers were easy to submit with choke holds manly because they kept their chin up. They were also subjected to arm bars because they extended their arms. However after a few weeks most wrestlers were playing at a green belt level. Where as a non wrestler would take at least a year to 18 months to get to that level. Choke holds and arms bars were learned very quickly by wrestlers.

[@Thawolf878]

So well said Jocko