WRITING CHAT | PLOTTING VS PANTSING w/ Alexa Donne

[@onomattopoeiaa3056]

Kat’s a diehard plotter; Alexa’s a diehard pantser; I’m a diehard procrastinator; it’s almost poetic. We should start a club: The Poetic Ps - a Group of Writers Brought Together by the Alliteration of How They Write Their Novels (or Don’t Write Their Novels). (I hope someone thought this was as funny as I did.)

[@Dennis_M_Myers]

Funny in a sad way. I've been putting it off for most of my life. Suddenly I am at the point where either I write, or I kill that dream. Now, or never, as they say. My advice, go for it. Just start writing.

[@Musicienne-DAB1995]

I am guilty of procrastination, too. I hope you have picked up your pen with a vengeance.

[@morethanwords]

@@Dennis_M_Myers It's a year later since you wrote that. So, did you start writing yet?

[@spicypumpkins2640]

Yes this was totally funny Haha

[@elizabethlandis6050]

I am a fourth P- plotted panster, also known as loose plotting. I tend to write out scenes on paper and figure out what should happen in the story that way and then I like to come up with a short description of at least what will happen in chapters with the big, major story points, along with some chapters that have some of the sub plots, even though I tend to figure out some of the sub plots as I write the first draft of the novel.

[@NotBulletProof245]

"Well, I used to say I would have another video up SOON, but I got tired of lying to my audience." -Katytastic 2k18

[@Katytastic]

HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY

[@ender4344]

Lmaooo Honestly, same

[@AndreaHeckler]

Hardcore plotter here 🙋‍♀️ I actually get a thrill from outlining and discovering where my story will take me, in the “summed up” version. If things need to change as I write the first draft, I don’t mind reworking the outline, but I think I still need those plot details planned out ahead of time to keep me on track as much as possible!

[@jennifermcilwrath]

Pantsing sounds like my anxiety nightmare - like being in a new place without a map. I'm way too much of a control freak for that sort of thing 😂 Great discussion!

[@jennifermcilwrath]

Saying that, I hate planning essays - generally write them as they come to me and do lots of revising and switching around at the end. I just can't imagine not planning something as substantial as a novel.

[@jennifermcilwrath]

Oooh, this has really got me thinking now!

[@Nik-dc4ti]

OMG what a great comparisson. I have anxiety too and I couldn't describe why full on pantsing stressed me out haha.

[@sarawithoutanH]

this video was so fascinating! it made me want to write a book except i dont write lol

[@saraxox4136]

sarawithoutanH I love your name! Because I spell it the same way😂

[@Drathaar01]

I'm a total pantser. I tell people I know how it's going to end and the fun is getting there. I don't even know the next chapter until I'm somewhere in the middle of the current one. I have had to jump back and fix a few things too. It happens. My current book (fantasy) I thought would be a short story. Two chapters in (and prologue) and I'm at 20k words. It will not be a short story :)

[@habeebhabib3160]

me too, except I haven't started yet :( XD ... actually I am both

[@Drathaar01]

I read a book (10,000 words Per Day, Every Day) and one of his tips to writing faster was to make an outline. So I finally broke down and wrote an outline. I did his other tips and went from 2-3,000 words per day all the way up to 6,000 - so far. I'll get faster when I stop hitting the backspace key :) The "day" is about 4 hours. So, I outline now :(

[@habeebhabib3160]

can't wait to see you name on the new york times bestseller list :)

[@AllysonKing]

Everytime I hear pantsying I think of “he’s penniless he’s flying by the seat of his pants.”

[@livgreen238]

Allyson King when I hear that I think of “handsome boy does he know it”

[@kairanelle1380]

Peach fuzz, and he can't even grow it!

[@Katytastic]

I WANNA TAKE HIM FAR AWAY FROM THIS PLACE THEN I TURN AND SEE MY SISTER'S FACE AND SHE IS

[@renoravenclaw6292]

HELPLESS...

[@aditireddy9199]

AND I KNOW

[@sansastark5810]

both writing styles seem to work perfectly fine if you know your set of skills. on one end of the spectrum is brandon sanderson who writes the most amazing books, and on the other end is george rr martin, (surprisingly a full on pantser) who also writes the most amazing books.

[@MGComics]

sansa stark Yeah! Though George RR Martin did make a super little 3 page outline he did change important points and he's super pantser! But still had an outline, It's cool how he started from something and how he deviates from it ♡

[@Musicienne-DAB1995]

I used to be a pantser, but I would never finish anything. However, even though I have outlined a story properly for the first time in over 6-7 years of real writing, I realise that knowing story structure is more important than how you choose to write the story. Pansters who successfully write stories know story structure from extensive reading. So do plotters. It's just that pansters can begin knowing nothing, while I have to have the middle down before beginning. I have failed to complete a proper story for years from not knowing story structure. I like what Katy says about figuring out the outline in your head, something I have done before outlining this current story. An excellent overview here!

[@PhyllisRogers]

I have been watching Alexa’s videos lately as I’ve been writing my query letters. I was so excited to see Katytastic. She taught me all about NaNoWriMo, Scrivener, and the 3 act/27 chapter writing outline. This was a great video!

[@atella394]

I feel like I sit between Kat and Alexa almost perfectly. They're definitely two of the author youtubers whose processes/methods apply to me effectively!

[@PeytonReads]

Loved this video and seeing the two different perspectives! Everyone has their own personal process

[@gulceakpinar8280]

Love your writing videos so much! Cant wait to read a book by you one day💕

[@yousuzers565]

The lesson I took away from this video: we all have a little bit of a pantser and a plotter in us

[@DemiRae26]

Kat speaks to my soul. And that sculpture metaphor is so accurate 😂💛

[@sansastark5810]

i can already tell this is going to be my new fav video of yours kat

[@lavendercottagebooks]

Such a great explanation of pantsing! LOL I've tried outlining, but it kills the excitement of the story. Kudos for making it work. :)

[@jochusbooks2886]

I love this!! I actually like doing both things. Depends on what I’m doing though. Pantsing is so fun, because you have a brief idea on what’s gonna happen, but at the same time is a mystery. AND when you outline, it’s beautiful because you have a guide to follow, still creating and surprising yourself in the middle. Both of them are beautiful. I’m more of an outliner though, because it gives me hard anxiety not knowing what is going to happen, or having big holes in the plot where I don’t know what to do. Soooo, outlining gives me that security of not having that problem, and I can still do pantsing(? Through the outline, and discover/ connect the dots to make everything work.

[@PhoebeWritesFiction]

This has me so hyped for a video I want to make sometime about the similarities between plotters and pantsers. Also, I so agree about treating the outline as draft zero, and 'discovering' the story through it!

[@alterbun]

So cool to watch you guys talk about this together after seeing both your original videos on the subject! I feel like I fall into a similar happy medium of giving myself the first two acts in an outline but being open to it changing as I get to know the story/characters better

[@summerwithcj7716]

My crops are watered, my wig is snatched, my skin's clearing up, and I'm just loving the fact two icons met and the fact they are helping 20gayteen thrive so we chosen to stan icons! But you know what would make 20gayteen EVEN better? Kat's book.

[@laurenstobb7453]

I love that you guys got to collab!!! This was great! 🙂❤️❤️

[@Dennis_M_Myers]

I just recently found this channel, but have been watching Alexa for a while. Thank you for this. I am still working out how my process will work best. Listening to the two of you helped me to identify where I fall, and I'll be sure to keep that in mind as I move forward.

[@HarrietJaneNorfolk]

I loved this video. Right up to and including “I got tired of lying to my audience” XD

[@patriciapages3839]

I've always been a pantser, but for my current writing projects I'm plotting to see how it's working, and it's working pretty well. But the outline is pretty lose, so each chapter I'm still kind of pantsing. I guess I'm now a little bit of both. If that makes sense.

[@blacklez]

Patriciapages that's what I'm doing

[@paulapoetry]

I get you. My plot points will often be super vague, and then I pants the scenes. If it doesn't work, I sometimes make a more detailed plan, for a specific chapter, or chapters.

[@A.H._]

Plantser, you mean. I get it

[@danidoesbooks5080]

Such a fun and helpful video! I think that for me, as both a plotter and a pantser, it is important to know both sides and their views. So good!

[@Caitsbooks]

Loved this video!! My biggest issue when writing is always the last act for some reason. The middle usually goes well, but I can never cross the bridge from act two to act three. And now I just have a bunch of unfinished manuscripts stuck at 50k-60k with no last act

[@Caitsbooks]

Also, I’m an outliner, but I keep the outlines fairly vague for my last act so that it can incorporate any changes that happen when writing

[@daisydott5181]

CaitsBooks same

[@luciacanali9832]

One of my novels is like five chapters to the end, but I haven't picked up in months because I feel blocked.

[@Amanda-lv1yd]

I think pantsing authors are just a different type of plotting author, the just plot in their head. I think all authors write wherever it takes them, its just the thought process that's different.

[@calypso_lazuli]

It’s pretty much almost the same thing, the main difference is that a plotter is pretty much going to have all the main points already planned (but they will change in the same way as a panster’s story is evolving along the way).. I’d definitely say that I’m a panster except that I do a lot of character profiles and background stories before I write which is a form of plotting. And when things change and you have to edit or add things in and out from what you’ve already written, omg it’s definitely a pain, to me, that’s a big pain when it comes to writing.

[@santanasg8445]

omggggg this is the best of collabs!

[@ooomar2689]

I have no idea what they are talking about but here I am watching because i love kat

[@heatherstiara8033]

I am both. Some books I know in great detail what is going to happen. Some books, I start a book with no idea where it's going at all.

[@TheReadingWerewolf]

Oh, I wish this was so much longer, it was fantastic! Also, I'm sorta happy your working on Storyteller because of all your works you've talked about that's my favorite. Good luck with your writing!

[@gretal3071]

YAY THIS IS WONDERFUL I'VE MISSED WRITING VIDEOS

[@raghadmhd9248]

This video is so informative! Thank you Kat and Alexa!! I never knew how outlining works or what pantsing is (I'm not a writer) so this was enlightening!

[@starrynightfall00]

I like your sculptor analogy :) Its much better than mine lol I envision my writing process as me taking a trash can and emptying it out on my desk, and then picking through my brain garbage until I manage to piece together an outline. I'm a plotter and I love finding story elements and piecing them together like they're jigsaw bits :)

[@mckenziestaley9063]

I loved this so much. It should be a segment on KZbin now. Author debates.

[@yippykiay13]

I’m both! I have a general idea, open up my notes, not ‘me down, jot down whatever scenes come to me in the shower or hiking, but as I’m writing, I just let it go and it usually takes me where it needs to go (can’t explain it, but if it’s wrong, the story tells me and I scrap it) HOWEVER! Sometimes when I’m particularly stuck, I’ll break down the chapter the way I think it’ll go into bullet points (which I write on the chapter and enter enter enter it down the page) then I let it go.

[@emmajakobsen8265]

Videos about writing are my favourite procrastination tools

[@xreadingsolacex]

this was such an interesting video/discussion - i have been on both sides of the spectrum and i'm currently mostly pantsing my work but i still don't know which method i prefer so this is extra fascinating to me

[@alexandriaceballos1938]

I’m a plotter, and I love research. I always know how many chapters the book is going to have, and outline the plot from there. Editing can be a pain, but it’s totally worth it. When I’m writing, I feel the emotions that my characters are feeling, and bringing in detail to my settings. And discovering the types of magic in my color coded magic system. So, you can say that I’m basically the goddess of my book universe.

[@BrittanytheBibliophile]

THIS VIDEO WAS FANTASTIC! This helped me so much.

[@BookBFF]

This video made me so happy! I looove outlining. I’m in the revision stages now and I’m having fun examining my outline and figuring out what needs to change/be moved. When I pants (and I’ve tried) it’s just a big ol’ mess and I get frustrated quickly because I feel like it’s taking to long to get to the next beat or I realize things aren’t working because I hadn’t thought them through enough. P.S. You guys should do more videos together!! -Mel

[@lowercase_ash]

For me, I like having an outline because I know where I'm going, and while I'm writing I like the feeling of bringing this thing to life with little details, as if I'm slowly filling it in and making steady progress that I can track.

[@fayz-dayz]

I love this! I am such a plotter! I thought I was obsessed, but after watching this video I was so glad it was relatable! Even better to see from a pantser’s POV great video😁

[@unscriptedprophets3638]

I love watching their expressions while the other one talks XD

[@bellamin4549]

I do both. I’m a pantser and write key scenes that come to mind never knowing if it will be in one book or another and I do it by hand in my journal. Then when I write them on screen, going over them again I find there’s usually a theme and I can move them around and start plotting what is going to go where and what scenes will be included or not and what the ending will be.

[@erinmariecece]

This is such an interesting discussion that I've never thought that much about. Really interesting to hear both sides of the story.

[@lisawitcher6423]

Two of my favs in a video!!!!!

[@evanj9593]

the collab we didn't know we were all waiting for. love the discussion!

[@a5alzahra]

Hey, Kat. Love your videos. I never commented before but you r the best. Keep being yourself. I’m a pantser btw but plotting intrigues me. I’m an aspiring writer so I watch your videos and get inspiration out of your passion for things.

[@BookSniffingFangirl4]

This video was so awesome, I loved seeing both perspectives! I'm personally a pantser so I related to Alexa so much in this. Loved this discussion

[@katiestewart7926]

I loved this video! I'd love to see more content about writing on your channel. I'm a planner, in the early days I was a pantser and I rambled too much and went on so many tangents, so I need a plan to keep me on track. My plans have gotten more intense with every book I write. I see the plan as the script the draft as the movie. I hate editing and second drafts, it's like watching a movie you love too many times.

[@AllysonKing]

I didn’t know she had a channel but I love this collab. It’s helpful and any video from you make me so happy 😁

[@noelkinz]

I prefer Outlining Because it makes me feel more organized, It extends the story, and prevents writer's block in the process of the main writing because I know where the story leads.

[@TheWordN3rd]

This was such a great video! I kept see parts of my process in both of y'all. I tried pantsing once and I ended up so lost that I just stopped working on the project altogether and said never again. My outline isn't sacred, but I need at least a general idea of what points I'd like to hit before I can figure out which points I'm supposed to hit.

[@thespiritguy3688]

I had a plan in mind and got one chapter into my book and detailed the whole thing. Let’s see where this will go!

[@celestepadilla9559]

I absolutely love your writing videos!

[@paulapoetry]

Great video. I do outline, and I wish I could write in order, but I don't. This sometimes gets confusing. I've always felt that a strong understanding of story structure is vital, whichever way we approach novel writing. What you've both been saying confirms this. Thank you for sharing. 😃💝

[@veronicavolumes]

I'm def a mix of both. I need to know how the story ends and most of the plot and several very specific scenes, but I don't sit down and write a legit outline. I'll outline my world and important plot points and the overall goal of each character, but I don't outline chapter by chapter everything that happens in each one. I like knowing the basics but also like having an open mind and being open to changes and being surprised by my own story. My planning notebook is full of mood quotes and playlists and notes of me working through my plot and world but nothing resembling an actual full outline

[@camilaarmani5639]

Great video! I´ve always written stories but I´ve never studied structure, so they were just a sequence of stuff happening, no plot twist, no nothing. Now I´m trying to learn story structure watching your videos, and I have started outlining my new stories. I´m still adapting, let´s see how it goes! But either way I´m learning so much from you, Kat, you are awesome!!!

[@Katytastic]

thank you! i'm so glad my videos are helping! GOOD LUCK! :)

[@jaziybabe]

"still trying to make fetch happen" I had to go back and make sure that was actually what she said. Amazing.

[@mayk7124]

I'm a pantser, always have been. For me, pantsing is like taking a leap of faith and hoping the wind catches you and takes you somewhere wonderful, and when something wonderful does happen, it's euphoric. Though I believe most pantsers, including myself, do some degree of planning before hand. Just nothing quite set in stone.

[@MikePagonis1]

that was so good. I'm a Pantser myself so it was good to hear from a fellow one! Although I do catch myself doing some of the things Kat mentions..

[@fallinginfiction]

This video was really great, and I loved hearing about this discussion! As a plotter myself, I find that panntsing doesn’t work for me. (To be fair, though, when I was first starting out as a writer eight years ago, I pansted a lot of my early work, but now doing so would end in complete disaster for me). I just can’t imagine not outlining anymore. However, as crazy as this may sound, I choose to not outline my chapters, because that is the part of outlining that I personally feel like kills my creativity.

[@KJM_Writes]

TWO OF MY FAVOURITE KZbinRS IN ONE VIDEO! 😆😆😆😆

[@storiesofwonderland8900]

I pantser all my stories, I tried to do a few projects with plotting but it doesn't really work for me. I find it really interesting to see a video about it and to see the two explained!

[@jazminlysette6936]

I love Jane Eyre, it's literally my favorite book! Can't wait to check out Brightly Burning.

[@elizabethlililee9755]

I think I'm a "sculptor" but I don't I think I really so traditional outlining. I jump all over the place and outline, write scenes that I don't even know are going to be in the book and hope that its enough to have a complete story. usually start with an intriguing concept or intriguing character or both and just jump off a cliff from there. wait maybe I'm a pantser. 🤷‍♀️ oh well

[@JumpingOverMountains]

This was such an interesting discussion!

[@BasiliskofAsia]

I'm not a writer personally, but this was such an interesting video! Can't wait to read your work in the future. :)

[@intesivec0re]

Hey awesome show I love seeing both sides of the coin as a writer, I would write stories but never finish them going into the story with no outline, question as an outliner do you still free write your story first before you begin outlining? Fan a long time Katastic love your writing and thanks😁

[@chelsiesdiamondsandbooks]

I have a sentence a chapter as my outline and revise it as need it because some times twists change, especially towards the end.

[@WeAreTheTwintails]

See, when I start, I usually have only one thing set. The conflict. I don't know how my characters are going to overcome it. I just love putting them in the situation and seeing what they do! It's exciting to see where the story goes.

[@slsthewriter1299]

4:19 "I hate drafting so much." That's so interesting to me because I am a die-hard outliner solely because I *hate* drafting/rewriting again. So I outline chapter-by-chapter (in the process of doing that for a long series), and have developed my writing style so I write as cleanly and polished as I can (not that people actively don't). Huh.

[@vanessahansmann2465]

This was such a great discussion ahh i love it

[@laurenditzel4283]

I just wrote out all of my plot points for my novel and it was so hard to do but I’m so happy I did it! I feel like I’m a pantser and a plotter. I love to outline my book so that I know what’s going to happen.

[@pixiebloom1774]

Alexa Donne is my spirit animal

[@hayleehaux2458]

I've never done an outline but maybe I should try cause I have like no midpoints

[@MoodyWeatherASD]

I've tried to force myself into outlining, and I end up not following it one bit. I am a pantser through and through. :D

[@luciacanali9832]

I think I am a point in between the two, because I sort of outline my novels, but only so I don't forget things and I just expand as other things come up. Of course, every novel I write ends up beign way too long, but well, it works.

[@pinkbookink8589]

Can I consider myself a plotting gardener??? This video was great though, all my introspective questioning aside.

[@starrynightfall00]

This is a great video, Kat!! Team plotter all the way! Also I love your Get Lit shirt :D

[@tamera4123]

kat, you talked about the 27 chapter in this video, but do you still use that? If not, would looooove an updated outline video 👀 (also still waiting for that learning korean video bc i’m learning hangul now and don’t know where to go next. thanksss!!!)

[@thequeenofcydonia]

Great video ladies, nice to see you together.

[@aromanianbibliophile]

I love outlining! 😍 It’s like cleaning your story before actually writing it idk 😂

[@Katytastic]

haha i like that, makes sense to me! XD

[@MsLPSFOREVER]

I have been a pantser most of my life. My books have turned out pretty well (the ones I've finished so far), BUT I've recently started writing out scene by scene what's going to happen in my books. It really helps with my downfall, which is the "in between" scenes. I may start doing this with every single book/story I write from now on.

[@larstyphoon9981]

I'm quite late for this video, but I only started to think about writing a book this year, so! 😆 (I already love both of you, though! 💚 ) Very interesting chat and I love the alternative names for plotters and pantsers: architects and gardeners. A wonderful concept! BUT... I can't figure out what am I! 🤣 I don't plan everything to the detail, I have more of a general idea of ​​what should happen in the story, I know more or less what should happen in each act... but I've already changed some aspects while writing. I mean, I write some details down in order to not forget them, however, it's not certain I'll put them in the story as they are... Sometimes I jump from one chapter to another (maximum 3), but only when I'm stuck with a chapter, so as not to lose my train of thought I try to continue with the next one, like in a school test: if you don't know or don't remember the answer to a question, you move on to the next one, then go back... I'm very confused! 🤣 PS: English is not my first language, so, sorry for any mistake.

[@ohsoabby4689]

YAY for writing videos!

[@twobookteens]

I used to be a pantser and it prevented me from ever finishing anything bc I never knew where it was supposed to go or maybe I knew where I wanted to go but didn’t know how to get there. Now I’m an obsessive plotter even though my books are mostly character-driven and it’s pretty much worked out well up until this point so I’m more on the same wave length as Kat

[@bronwenelizabeth635]

One of my English teachers described the two types of writers as "diamond miners" and "vomit polishers". The diamond miners don't write until they know exactly what they are going to write and the vomit polishers just write whatever comes to mind (word vomit) and then fix it up until it's good. I'm a vomit polisher/pantser, I get a bit stressed when trying to make really detailed outlines but I definitely still use outlines but they tend to be vague.

[@aznSeddie]

I'm 60/40 when it comes to pantsing/plotting, respectively. I think part of it had to do with having such short deadlines in my Creative Writing classes when I was a student. But for novel-length pieces, I definitely prefer having a road map of beats and organically working those into a structure, or wherever the chapter decides to naturally end (plotting chapter-by-chapter).

[@authorgkray]

I feel this conversation on a deep, emotional level. I consider myself half and half. I'll often start with an outline or notes and the "pants" off of that. For one of my current WIPs, I actually wrote the ending first. But writing is MEGA weird and it takes me forever. >.>

[@bookwormlife1278]

I have also starting writing my own novel and it's a horror. I just want to know how long should you spend on your novel? love both of your channels

[@annier5914]

i love ur strand shirt sm omg!

[@Katytastic]

thank you! XD

[@gjori4704]

The way you're explaining this and listening to each other I can't help but thinking of those 'atheists and christians talk about faith' and 'vegans and non-vegans talk about diets' videos. But it's really interesting, you both are just so passionate about writing and you both are so interested in what the other person is saying :D

[@amypender9260]

I love writing outlines as procrastination!😂😂😂

[@jeffblimisinahurry]

This really helped me feel motivated to work on my current novel, thank you!!! Also, a random question to put out there: a lot of my book is told in flashbacks. Does anyone have some advice on how to write the transition from present day to the past and back again?

[@shaypurplesyou9859]

I'm a bit of both :) I really like outlining but my ideas are never completely set in stone. Since first planning my current WIP the story has grown so much bigger than the original idea and by the time I finish, it will probably only vaguely resemble the outline. so I'd say I'm a planning-pantser of sorts :)

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

I am definitely somewhere in between planner and pantser. I call myself a "plantser," someone who makes an outline and does well in drafting, but becomes more of a pantser and discovers more things in revision.

[@SarahAtHeart]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing. I so wish I was a plotter (It seems so organized and neat and straightforward), but every time I try, it kills my interest in the story. So pantsing it is!