Affirmative Action vs. Race-Neutral Admissions: A Case Study | WSJ

[@freyafang3933]

If the intention is to protect students from a more vulnerable background (low income, moderate public education), just take those factors in directly. They should be totally irrelevant to race.

[@drethethinker6418]

EXACTLY--let's just push for class-based affirmative action because I rather support a poor white kid then a loaded Black one anyway.

[@Grayto]

Bingo.

[@andross2]

this would be true if all public schools were equally funded and managed

[@marcobecerra1977]

They already do…they take everything into account.

[@jimmy79889]

@@andross2 Harvard is a private school, not a public school. What about them?

[@saurabhb1041]

So how do you explain the success of first generation Asian American kids whose parents are not wealthy, are immigrants. They hardly got the benefits of Affirmative Action and yet now constitute the biggest number of college graduates. I'd love to see a study on that.

[@OrangeJohn]

How do you explain it is it because think that black people are inferior to Asian and white

[@IsIamIs-aye]

Hey it's racist to ask these short of questions 😡

[@biaohan4358]

In Asian communities people value education very much. Parents sacrifice their own quality of life to get the best education resources they can get to their kids. For example most will pay high price and property tax and live in small, old houses in great school districts, rather than choosing a more comfortable living condition just so the kids can go to a better school. We would love to spend a lot of money to tutors and after school programs for the kids to develop their extracurricular activities while others might spend this money on new cars. In Asian communities we have "Climb up to Ivy League" culture, that parents would do whatever they can to push the kids to Ivy League Universities. This is how these kids become successful -- it's based on tremendous amount of effort of those students plus big sacrifice of their parents. Imposing AA in Admission process essentially makes those effort and sacrifice become meaningless.

[@gd-lockc7618]

They just said that there are other things that lead to better test scores not just money

[@amenx]

They did use affirmative action

[@krishp1104]

Why did the data he collected ignore the negative affects on Asian students? They are also a minority.

[@jasongrundy1717]

Also ignored the high dropout rate for black and hispanic students that couldn't cut it and ended up with nothing but student debt. The whole thing was dishonest. The reality is 3/4 are in single parent homes. Asians who don't have garbage parents shouldn't have to be punished because blacks won't take care of their kids.

[@TomNook.]

MSM clearly have an anti asian agenda.

[@nevilleachero8054]

@@jasongrundy1717 The problem is that these highly selective schools are selecting students that are unqualified. If they actually selected qualified students like they said they were, which is the original purpose of Affirmative Action, then these race-based admissions wouldn't be an issue.

[@DeshaunIsAmazing]

What negative effects? Asian Americans are vastly overrepresented at selective colleges and universities given they are only 7% of the population yet represent 28%(!!!) of the freshman class at a highly selective institution like Harvard. The real problem here is not admissions quotas, but the existence of a tiered educations system that prioritizes resources and attention to a few select schools which in turn creates enormous pressures on students/families to get admitted because of the prestige. Instead, we should focus on ensuring that regardless of what school a student get admitted; they'll receive an innovative, immersive, and life changing education experience.

[@buttofthejoke]

​@@DeshaunIsAmazingnegative effects of Asian students not being able to make it to universities because their seats were taken away by Affirmative Action schemes.

[@dude968182003]

So my problem with all this is that almost everyone knows and says that the lack of racial diversity is really being caused by the lacking quality of education below the college level. Yet everyone is obsessed with fixing the symptoms of the problem (i.e., college admissions ratios) and not the actual problem. Maybe all the football stadiums and other needless stuff needs to get canned and replaced with real resources for grade schools.

[@darkgalaxy5548]

Anyone who has attended an inner-city school knows the biggest impediments to learning & excelling is not so much the quality of the teachers, facilities, or resources (though there is certainly room for improvement), but the students around you who seem to be on a mission to hinder you at every turn.

[@dude968182003]

@darkgalaxy5548 I could be wrong, but I don't think all those students are necessarily coming up with those oppressive ideas and behaviors all on their own. Maybe some here and there, but not all. So, I feel this implies that maybe there is a social behavior in these marginalized communities that may be preventing and undermining themselves from progressing. I have no idea how to change a social sigma, if that is the true problem. My only idea is that maybe having better equipped, staffed, and maintained schools (to include updated buildings, furniture, etc.) might be enough of an inspiration to start to change any social shortfalls. Like maybe kids (all or them) going to better looking and higher quality school might drive them and their parents to pursue the academics more. I dont know though.

[@ericswart3786]

@@dude968182003 It really is a cultural problem. This starts in early schooling. Black kids come in with a bad attitude, are disrespectful and disobedient. Not all, but enough that it is a justifiable stereo type. Then as the black students get older, the ones that start to excel are called Oreo's and race traitors. The problem has little to do with the schooling and more to do with the upbringing in the homes.

[@thebordernow]

If you really look (and are honest about it), it is the family, community, and cultural values at the heart of it. Yes, inner-city schools may not be the equal of the suburban schools, but the key is that you don't see Education as the top priority at the family, community, and cultural level. But of course, all of those are social taboo to talk about because there isn't much social stigma or peer pressure about lack of personal responsibility anymore.

[@bruhbutwhytho]

@@darkgalaxy5548yeah, it’s the same at suburban schools too, they just have more resources to put students back on the right path.

[@damham5689]

Part of the solution might be to stop basing k-12 schools funding on property taxes and area and have all public schools funded and operated in a way so they can all be equally as good as the schools we currently only see in wealthy districts. I think Finland does this and they have one of the most successful education systems in the world.

[@krishp1104]

Part of? No, this is the biggest proponent of the solution. Long as schools are funded by propert taxes, wealthy areas WILL have better education and low income areas WILL have worse education. How can we spend a billy in military but not grant states a proptionate amount for education

[@TruuJones]

Great point 👍🏿

[@max_da_engineer]

California already did it, pretty much every public school funded roughly same per student per day. If you can choose I would not recommend California public school system for your own kids.

[@genzofthe2148]

In Texas the wealthy school districts have to fund the lower performing school districts

[@blazinpyromaniac]

The reason this works in Finland, is because they hardly have any diversity. Meaning their country have a singular culture, and focus. The reason it doesn't work in the US is because some groups/households prioritize education more than others. For example, in NYC, Asians have one of the highest poverty rates. Until 2 years ago, they were the highest. Asians still invested the little money they had into their children's education. And their children for the most part went off to doing well and getting high paying jobs. The former mayor, Mayor DeBlasio wanted to still penalize Asians in public school admissions and funding despite the high poverty rate.

[@bryantagas]

It’s extraordinary that this piece does not focus at all on the negative impact on Asian students of affirmative action policies at selective schools, where Asians need to have significantly higher scores to gain admission than whites or other minorities. Furthermore, it fails to note that minority representation in California’s selective schools was hardly impacted by the end of affirmative action, since Asian students were admitted in greater numbers. The charts all leave off Asian students when looking at the relationship between having a stable home and access to resources pre-18. All of this left-out data would have added nuance to the story, especially because the Harvard case was based on the argument that the university actively discriminated against Asian applicants through its policies. The Court agreed.

[@andyiswonderful]

I noticed that, too. They didn't seem to care that other students, more worthy students, would be excluded.

[@Jivanmuktaintraining]

Asians need to have significantly higher scores than Whites? I'll need to see evidence of this. My understanding is that both groups are in the same boat when completed to other minorities.

[@erbiumfiber]

Yes, they followed the black and hispanic students who went to lower tier schools and got lesser-paying jobs. Well, before that, the white and Asian students (with higher scores) also had to go to lower tier schools and, guess what? They probably also got lower-paying jobs. There are a finite number of positions at the upper tier schools. And, these days, since everyone has a college degree, the only way to distinguish yourself is by attending an upper tier school. I started at MIT in 1982 and I don't think there was much in the way of affirmative action (racial or gender). 4:1 male to female ratio and probably 25-30 percent Asian/Asian-American. I met people from all over the country (guess what? A person from a small town in Kansas is a lot different in terms of perspective and life experience than a kid from the suburbs of NYC). I met a LOT of immigrants (Russians, Poles, Indians, Brits, Koreans, etc.). Felt I had plenty of different points of view and such. But, as it turns out, engineering equations don't really care about your race, so we didn't have any race-based discussions in any of my classes. I still felt like I got a good education.

[@phandinhthanh2295]

Everybody has their own agenda. Its esp prevalent in social studies😅

[@isabelamogosanu7777]

yeah i wouldve liked to hear more

[@kenattorri4498]

Glaring oversight in this video to not describe the harm inflicted on Asian Americans by affirmative action.

[@parabinda]

They wont. Because - Wall Street Journal is part of Communist Ecosystem (which includes Harvard University) who are behind all such - blatant injustice done to people who deserve, people who have merit. The criminals in Harvard University - who feed their bank accounts by the ecosystem, have done broad daylight injustice, to people who have merit - Asians etc wno have done hard work - day and night

[@curoport]

AA doesn't harm Asian Americans, and there as no substantial improvement to white and Asian students after prop 209 was passed in CA.

[@curoport]

Asians remain overrepresented in many colleges, and that's only a selective few from certain countries like Korea, China, and Japan. Filipinos, Malaysians, Indonesians, Vietnamese, and thali are underrepresented in colleges and benefit from AA measure to include them

[@user-mi8xf8tq1z]

@@curoportthey are NOT “over represented”. It’s not some “representation” of your race. It’s individual life. Asians have to work much harder to get accepted

[@stopgettingtriggered]

@@curoport Asians are underrepresented at HBCUs, where is the need for "diversity" and affirmative action for them there?

[@dominican7155]

As an Afro-Hispanic female who migrated at the age of 6 thank you for finally viewing me as an equal. I am tired of the indirect discrimination by suggesting I need special treatment to get into college or to find a job! I hate the subtle racism in which they are suggesting we are inferior. The worst part is they pretend like they care and they are helping the community by discrediting our abilities from birth.

[@ricya1982]

They think ur stupid and NEED 300 extra points to be on the same level as Whites and Asians. Isn't that the worst way to get anything by saying "Nah, you can NEVER make it on your own. You guys just aren't capable or smart enough." At least you can hang ur head high and be proud of the DESESRVED accomplishment.

[@BobSmith-kd6lq]

That's how I see it, but I'm white, so obviously a racist lol

[@Knoteworthy]

Affirmative action was created to level the playing field for Black people because of how they were put at a disadvantage for being black. As you can see the policy worked well for Latino people who was never originally intended for And really was inconsequential and the number of Black people being admitted to certain schools.

[@hoomanparsi]

Thank you! Very wise statement!

[@qweds3127]

You get it !

[@alucardkoten]

Aren't Asian a discriminated minority?

[@tha1ne]

Bingo

[@johnzach2057]

They don't care.

[@acesking]

why would jews like this care? they hate asian american men

[@dangercat9188]

No.

[@tha1ne]

@@dangercat9188 Yes.

[@s1074007]

I am curious on whether the Asian parents were actually higher income earners. If it's not then the argument that minority students from lower income background can't do better academically just didn't really work

[@johnl.7754]

Or if Black/Hispanics….were actually higher income. Also most of the children of African/Hispanic… immigrants (that came over on merit) were doing as well at schools and SAT’s as Asians.

[@onthehardsun8824]

It is surprisingly omitted in the video. Why would it?

[@classicalmusicman799]

Typically parents of Asian background make more than other minorities do.

[@krishp1104]

@@johnl.7754 Immigrants tend to work harder because they have to fight for their right to live here

[@s1074007]

@@krishp1104 so it's working harder leads to better result despite your background?

[@major__kong]

This guy is absolutely correct. But the solution isn't to lower standards or enact affirmative action at the college level rather fix the problem at the source, which is in primary schools and family attitude towards education. But politicians don't have any game there because third rails and difficult truths are going to get them.

[@humpterdink]

I guess I missed the part where he said they lowered standards. I’m gonna watch it again! The video did mention that happened in the 80s, but that the practice ended.

[@Superunknown190]

Making college actually affordable or free would help too. So many kids in poverty either just can’t afford it or they get trapped in debt for the rest of their lives.

[@max_da_engineer]

@@humpterdink Not even close to funny, the practice of applying different academic standards baed on race ended on June 28, 2023. But the battle to keep schools accountable just begins.

[@paulomilan515]

Changing family attitudes would actually be near to impossible and way more expensive an ordeal. It is easier for the school to change the child by giving them access to an education their family didn't have the means to afford.

[@VeroIglesiasM2]

I mean yes, giving a child the means to succeed in spite of family income is a great fuel, we live in an area where the median income is over 120k, since we are under that we get to have preschool fee waived, now our Hispanic kid can access an award winning school district putting him in a good path, private PreK is around 1800 a month here

[@waleedkhalid7486]

As an Asian, affirmative action has been the bane of my college acceptance journey. I have to be in the top 10% of Asian applicants to be considered, compared to the top 50% of Black applicants. All this ended up doing was creating spaces where Asians still out-performed most students regardless of their economic status. Whites were more prone to economic status than Asians. And Blacks performed worse overall (likely pulled down by lower performing Black students who were accepted due to quotas rather than ability). Am I racist for saying all this? I don’t think so. I think not everyone should go to college, and some people just need a few years before they are ready. We should be expanding networks of vocational schools, who then in unturned should encourage students to pursue higher degrees upon graduation, the difference being that those low performing students are now older, wiser, and more ready for the rigors of college. They would also be able to support themselves with a trade. Want more Black engineers? This is how, not affirmative action. Help the community in the way they need it, not with some high road moral stance that does nothing to solve the actual problem.

[@redneckscumbags4422]

nope, America is openly racist against asians...Even liberals are racist against asians. They are all racist against asians....you're entitled to fight for you race.

[@ER1CwC]

That’s all fine, but that would require more taxes and redistribution. I’m not saying you, but are people (Asians included) willing to contribute and sacrifice more to ensure that the things you suggest happen? If the answer is no, then it’s all talk; the reality would then be that people simply do not care about equality of opportunity. Actually caring about equality of opportunity requires people to make the contributions and sacrifices necessarily to realize it. All of that stuff costs money, and the money needs to come from somewhere.

[@redneckscumbags4422]

@@ER1CwC There are poor SE Asians, south asians. I can't stand privileged east asians speaking for the rest of us

[@ER1CwC]

@@redneckscumbags4422 I can’t see how my comment relates to the East Asian v. South East Asian issue, unless you are referring to my last name. But I’ll just say that I am personally very sensitive to that dynamic and think that it’s a big problem.

[@jitterrypokery1526]

Complaining about competition really?

[@Chilicoach]

AA was effectively just a bandaid that made our education systems look better than they actually are (in terms of diversity). It didn't actually fix anything, instead just made it easier for colleges to be able to say "look, we care about diversity" instead of actually improving anything at its core

[@artlesscalamity]

Well, it also created more opportunity for diverse communities and boosted local economies. Everyone is frothing to tear down the legitimacy of AA, but it was - and is - empirically good policy. EDIT: I'm not going to respond to the myriad of insults and deflections below. AA did not take anything away from other people - it merely expanded the number of scholarships and updated application considerations to go beyond a typical middle-class background. Data is clear on the trickle-down benefit to local communities and economies. If you are "against" AA it's probably because your chosen media conditioned you to be against it.

[@tomnguyen6830]

@@artlesscalamity for who? if it's not equal for all then it's race based and is racist. theyre plenty of options for schools base on different cognitive level.

[@biaohan4358]

​@@artlesscalamityevery policy has two sides, one side good and one side bad. You need to look at both. In WWII the Nazi killed a lot of Jewish and used their money to pay for the war. If we only look at the good side of that it actually made the economy of Germany look better, but nobody should support that right?

[@nathanlevesque7812]

except for the part where none of what you said is correct

[@nathanlevesque7812]

@@tomnguyen6830 Life experiences aren't equal, and race plays a big role in that. Pretending that AA isn't a recognition of inequality but rather its source is just absurd.

[@anthonyamory]

The problem is he is trying to categorize individuals as “Black” or “Asian” before he is looking at them as individuals. That is the textbook definition of racism. The dream is to have a world where “they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character”. You cannot fight racism with a “better” form of racism which still "judges by the color of their skin". Although he does not appear to know it, he is promoting not eliminating racism.

[@FarberBob678]

"The best way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race" --John Roberts, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.

[@blackloki9]

Neptisim is racial so ignoring that aspect which is the biggest problem is the biggest problem. A white student with hire grades then a black student with get in before a black american. Also we need to consider the fact that sex based affirmative action is still going to have affirmative action whe mostly benefits white women.

[@bobtheredskin123]

So if I discriminate systematically against a group of people on the bases of their identity and that has lasting impacts on the people of that identity how are we supposed to redress those injustices? That’s like people who hate green people burning down a neighborhood because there are green people in it.. then saying that’s terrible what they did..too bad green people isn’t technically a real thing and identifying someone as green is seeing people by color so we can’t do anything…we won’t we even allow for people who can claim they’re descendent of those who are discriminated against to gain redress All you’ve got to do is ask yourself…if a white hooded person from 1920 were alive today would they have voted for or against this court ruling… pretty obvious why

[@thedadlife247]

@@bobtheredskin123 factssssss

[@insideoutsideupsidedown2218]

@@bobtheredskin123this is not 1920. This is 2023. And how do you prove there are lasting impacts on anybody for anything that happened in the past? You do realize that can be applied to ANYONE? Why do you think discriminating against an Asian who got good grades is a good thing? The way AA is based now, it is telling the Asian student they do not get to go to the college of their choice because they are not Black. That is racism. You need to go to the root cause of why a certain minority group does not get good grades or opportunities, and it is not because some person in a white hood was standing in the way. That is a straw man argument.

[@williamxw09]

All the "discrimination" and inequality happens at or before the starting line, yet we spend most of the time debating and implementing policies that would only reverse at the mid point or even finish line. Like we shouldn't be talking whether AA should have a place in college admission or job application, but how can we improve the education system overall so everyone has a equal chance since grade one. Also, instead of debating whether education loan cancellation is fair or not, we should be thinking why higher education costs so much nowadays and increasingly so, and what can we do to stop that.

[@pointedhood826]

There is no discrimination. Asian families outearn white families. Black people are mostly poor because they are fatherless.

[@brianlevine249]

But that would never get politicians elected. So they take the easy path and pander and make sledge hammer bandaids that fix nothing.

[@travisforrest3225]

@@pointedhood826 here we go again with the talking points what you seen the median income of southeast asians stop cherry picking highly skilled immigrants

[@robertlunderwood]

​@@travisforrest3225Based on both the average and median, Asians outearn whites.

[@basicinfo11252]

@@travisforrest3225 why are they high skilled ? Just born smarter ? Or do they actually have better work ethics? Or are you saying certain minorities are just dumber

[@isaacokorio8263]

I've been trying to request permission to the dataset used in this video and finding it surprisingly difficult. My worry is that no one with a statistical background has looked at this data yet. I can't find a bivariate analysis anywhere that shows test scores by race and educational attainment in the same table. My worry is that there is no difference in test scores across races when you normalize for educational attainment and family income. If that's the case, then whoever is pulling these statistics is either extremely unqualified or purposefully misleading.

[@AdrienLegendre]

I agree. They should release the primary data.

[@JohnSmith-ki2hl]

This guy Bleemer appears to be a left wing academic with a fixed view on Affirmative Action. I teach at a Medical School (surgery not statistics) and I had many questions about the huge number of confounders in the study and how the data was analyzed. Others have shown that poorly qualified applicants who are accepted have high(er) failure rates (unless propped up through their degree) and if they go to a more appropriate school they actually have higher success rates

[@Devin7Eleven]

This is why I’m scared for the future. People blindly trust the media who are in bed with the current regime. We have no non biased news with absolute transparency or cross examination. People blindly listen and accept whatever supports their view.

[@briangunn4545]

And why did Black and Hispanic enrollment start to decrease years before prop 209 was passed? This suggests it's not causal.

[@covfefe1787]

@@briangunn4545 because they were unqualified in the first place. You cannot just take a random person off the street and ask them to perform heart surgery for “Equity” those who are accepted based on affirmative actions tend to drop out of college more and score low academically and have low GPA’s than if they went to a school more suited for their qualifications and be near the top of their class

[@Scope218]

Grew up in low-income neighbourhood but with strict 2-parent household doing homework everynight for most of my student years, and finally graduated medical school, I'd like to think I was smarter than average and not because of my skin color.

[@daniellogansa8101]

I imagine there were other factors (having two parents and enough food to have the energy to do homework every night, maybe not many siblings to take care of) on top of the intelligence. Congrats on medical school that’s a big deal no matter how hard or easy one had it

[@stopgettingtriggered]

did you get affirmative action?

[@brandyraccoon1473]

The problem with affirmative action is that persons in your situation can never be sure if their achievements were due to merit or skin color.

[@thebordernow]

@@daniellogansa8101 And if (part of) the reasons for his success were that, whose responsibility was it to provide those things? His parents. And yet, do you find that same sort of parental dedication, discipline, focus, and sacrifice when you look into the backgrounds of kids who end up "lesser" in their academic lives? Most likely not. The parents (or maybe more likely a single parent) have already by their own actions, and failure of such, have already doomed their kids to failure.

[@soundsaboutright---]

​@brandyraccoon1473 the problem with affirmative action is people such as yourself assuming that it means someone is unqualified. It doesn't.

[@JesusOurSavior7777]

Those who claim to be against “systemic racism” are upset that the only systemically racist policy still on the books has ended. You can’t make this stuff up.

[@mzeastcoastgirl390]

If this were true, why is that blacks still face discrimination with housing loans ofbanks? Jobs, and why is it kkk can still rally and preach their purehate for blacks if thats only racism form?smh

[@RichardOmier]

whoosh

[@bkgoulding]

Exactly!

[@sueyuyu3654]

They are upset becuz it removed one of their privilege.

[@Imperatorius45]

Careful, that much logic and rationality in a single sentence is gonna overload some progressive minds.

[@TungTran-pp3tx]

I would like to see a drop out rate data for students who got admitted to top tier schools due to race admissions before and after AA.

[@parabinda]

Yes, that will be a good metric to consider. Artifically prppping up people without deserving merit does more harm to them, to the society than good. It only helps the Left Communists to continue their political agenda of maintaining distinct identities, and promote the undeserving people to equal status of deserving in the name of getting equality, It's a political agenda of Harvard University which is exposed,

[@7Jay77]

You could have just summed up your comment with you believe black and brown kids couldn't hack the more esteemed schools, because that is essentially what you are saying.

[@momobobo123]

You are a nut. These Asians that didn’t have much if anything to do with founding this country are nuts.

[@NotKimiRaikkonen1]

I always wondered this... if you can't cut it at a top-tier school, accepting that person doesn't really help them. If anything it hurts them by wasting their time and money starting a degree they're not going to finish

[@Hay8137g]

The schools will base grading curve on their race.

[@thebordernow]

Interesting how at 7:27, Harvard admits that without the race-based admissions criteria, their black admit rate would drop. That is a pretty direct admission that those students wouldn't have been as competitive as other applicants on all of the other admission criteria, so it's not really using race as a "tie-breaker" among similarly-qualified applicants.

[@brendancobb9414]

Incorrect. It’s simply a matter of numbers. More white and asian students are applying, so even though candidates may be equal, if there are 5 white applicants and 1 black applicant competing for a spot, it is more likely that the white applicant will be chosen. The idea that students from diverse backgrounds are selected over more qualified candidates is in general untrue.

[@thebordernow]

@@brendancobb9414 I think you need to go back and re-think that. You wrote if the "candidates may be equal" and there are 5 white and 1 black applicant, due to the numbers it is "more likely that the white applicant will be chosen." Look at what you just said - the 6 candidates are "equal." If they indeed are truly Equal, I think most people would agree that the admissions committee should Then give a slight edge to the black applicant because of past history. I would agree with that and consider that a true and relevant usage of "Affirmative action" as a principle and as an action. But what "affirmative action" has become in practice is not a preference to under-represented minorities, all else being equal, but a built-in "bonus" system for black applicants in weighing competing applications. How else to explain if Asians have to score 10%-20% higher to be considered "equal"? Are you a believer in race being a direct proxy for poor socioeconomic circumstances? Another logical fallacy in focusing on race-based affirmative action is that you have automatically and completely legitimized an attribute a student (or job) applicant cannot have affected through personal hard work, discipline, determination, grit, and perseverance. You have in fact given bonus points to some for being born a certain race, and in turn penalized all others by comparison. How fair and equitable is that? To judge someone on something they have absolutely no control over? It's akin to using "affirmative action" to give admissions preference to people born with green eyes, something they could not control - nor affect later in life (short of colored contact lenses). Try again.

[@Devin7Eleven]

@@brendancobb9414Why do we need diverse backgrounds? Skin color offers nothing of value. Character does. If you’re trying to bank on getting in by skin color, I don’t want you in.

[@Devin7Eleven]

@@thebordernowNo, that shouldn’t happen. Nobody should have to fear not getting in due to their skin color. Race should NEVER be considered.

[@Notiisx]

@@brendancobb9414 It absolutely is true. The thing is that schools discriminate. The harsh truth is that due to past history, whites are academically better off, and due to their family's culture, asians are better academically. Blacks and Hispanics have more relaxed households and are more disadvantaged. More white and asian students are applying due to the fact that they have a better chance of getting in than minorities, the harsh truth. Affirmative Action tried to fix this, but the education system should not pity the minorities, but instead fix the problem at it's root.

[@RandA1220]

Here's something ground breaking: You don't have to go to an Ivy League to be successful, it's not life or death, and lets move beyond race already.

[@jimmy79889]

Agreed

[@MR-kr3lu]

Yes but they do tend to form the elite and if your goal is the elite than there is not much room around it.

[@omniskeptyc]

​@@MR-kr3lu not true, only 11% of the Fortune 100 CEO's attended an ivy-league institution, and the average income for ivy-league schools is not significantly above the average college student. As a past ivy-league student myself, there is certainly significant overhype for many of these institutions

[@MR-kr3lu]

@@omniskeptyc You are correct to some degree. However, I’d also include highly selective schools that are almost as good or potentially even better than the Ivy league like MIT, Duke or U Chicago. Of course I didn’t specify that earlier but they are all somewhat similar. In addition, it’s not just about making the most money, being an influential business man/ manager but also of becoming a politician, lawyer, scientist etc. Just look at a couple of the last presidents. The Ivy League is overrepresented. I’m not saying you have to attend one of those schools to reach those ranks but it does make it a lot easier, especially if you are able to graduate cum laude.

[@NotKimiRaikkonen1]

​@@MR-kr3luI think those people were accepted to those schools because they were the types to become successful, not that they're successful because of those schools. Look at all the people whove dropped out of those schools and done well. The schools not the reason for the successful personality, the successful personality is the reason they got into that school.

[@michaelcheng4985]

Holistic view of an applicant.... bruh stop the cap. They don't look at every applicant. You need a filter, and even then it's still too many to look indepth.

[@grantstidham9322]

Yep I caught that immediately. They absolutely do filtering. He even admitted that someone with moderate grades will get in but only if they are a certain race. Pretty despicable and insulting to that race.

[@tru5919]

Let's not forget that legacy students are allowed and is based on family connections or lineage rather than qualifications, achievements, and potential.

[@johnjames2817]

Asians won’t challenge whites though.

[@andyiswonderful]

That really is a minor quibble in this whole discussion. It has just about ZERO impact on the issue here. I think you are deflecting.

[@tru5919]

@@andyiswonderful You could say the same for affimative action but I guess watching this video makes you think the problem is bigger than it is.

[@barbzfurbernie4560]

Let’s not forget that over half of black mothers in America receive section 8 housing. No other race gets free houses.

[@ethanpatch6840]

@@tru5919 You sound like a legacy student lol. If you have a problem with affirmative action you should have a problem legacy students in theory. Legacy sounds eerily close to nepotism to me lol.

[@prata1019]

I'm Indian-American, so call me a biased scum, but AA is the absolute WRONG way of going about DEI! The issue here is not race, it's socioeconomics and how poorer students can't dedicate time to studying compared to their tutored, wealthy counterparts. Although Hispanics and blacks tend to be poorer, there are rich blacks, poor Asians, a little bit of everybody. Race itself may have correlation, but socioeconomics is THE causation, and thus affirmative action should aimed at income level and family status, not skin color. Sure, there may've been success cases of AA, but you can't curb racism with so-called "good" racism. We need to prioritize the success of students who don't have conducive financial and family situations, not just cause they are URM.... Besides, assuming that all blacks and Spanish are inherently "poor" and "underresourced" solely based off of their race is inherently racist.

[@nazomius7033]

Be careful, people don’t like logical arguments like this

[@mistervo8185]

What..... The... Actual.... F...... All the charts have No mention of Asian students... U know, the plaintiff in this lawsuit?

[@alquinn8576]

why would anyone care? asians have even more white privilege than whites somehow!

[@patricktalley4185]

It’s unconstitutional and morally wrong to deny a person college admission because you already have enough people of his or her race attending your school. The problems with Black and Hispanic enrollment should be addressed with creative, compassionate solutions. But you don’t cure the harms of racism with more racism.

[@jillpatton3432]

Asians are over represented in college admissions because education and hard work are central to their culture and prioritized by parents. If blacks want to go to college and succeed, they need to incorporate some of that into their culture.

[@Devin7Eleven]

Maybe, just maybe, their culture needs fixing.

[@lvernon9471]

Except that’s literally not happening. No non-white person is taking the space of a qualified white person. That’s the racist/right wing smear job against Affirmative Action.

[@randomoneforstuff3696]

@@Devin7ElevenExcept that generalizing like that is really fruitless... if you can't point out specific instances of such cultural 'flaws', then just shut up. There's no systemic racism, and there's no universal culture for any given race.

[@AR-rn8ok]

@@Devin7Elevenor your system is breaking their culture.

[@allo-other]

The solution is not to admit poorly-prepared students, but to ensure adequate opportunity and preparation at primary and secondary levels. Thus, ensuring that dedicated students are capable of actualizing their academic potential. Setting students up for debt-laden failure is scarcely in their best interests.

[@fionafiona1146]

Sounds like the USA won't do that

[@edwardharley9]

The greatest cruelty to Blacks~ is making them think their low scores will get them to pass the bar. They don't. Then they have been dealt the dirtiest trick Biden and his racist party could think up. now in debt, and no career...

[@jimmy79889]

@@fionafiona1146 They won't help because Democrats are against school choice. If they passed bills for school choice, the black community would much more educated than they currently are. This has been proven from studies going back for decades

[@Keesha_Hardy]

@@fionafiona1146And this is the problem, but some in our society will try to make it seem as if it’s a problem.

[@tashanmann05]

Just imagine if Affirmative Action was applied to American Football and an Asian gets selected in College Football team over a Black student or a Hispanic one....Reaction to that would have been very different.

[@thebordernow]

Asians make up about 6-7% of the U.S. population but you don't see any DEI proponents or liberals advocating loudly for Asians to make up 6-7% of the U.S. pro football and basketball teams, do you? 🤔 Hmm, those seem to be merit-based, based on competitive outcomes...

[@SeattlePioneer]

I'm guessing only Sumo Wrestlers would be likely to survive....

[@4chanFootballMemes]

The issue isn't college admissions: the issue is income inequality and the inequality of opportunity. We need to fix that from a bottom-up approach. If this is the case, minority students will naturally become more competitive, and their admissions rates will increase.

[@AB-wl8kr]

Unfortunately, any solution seems acceptable except tampering with the capitalist inequality machine.

[@fvr12345]

So we should start today and wait another 2 decades to see if that solves our problems? We should do both.

[@jsjuhbdn]

And with the status quo of affirmative action, there is no real help for non-minority students who also suffer from income inequality. Instead of trying to balance the actual issue, universities chose to only deal with the correlated issue of race.

[@quinharely7280]

Affirmative action *was* an attempt to close the opportunity gap though.

[@fahadkelantan]

"Inequality of opportunity" how about this? Maybe parents from lower income families shouldn't abandon their children. Make sure their kids do their homework. Just a thought.

[@IHS333]

My Filipino daughter is a straight a student. She worked hard in college to keep her grade point average up, but was denied entrance into many law schools, because Asians are considered privileged.

[@TijaunaK]

That doesn't make any sense.

[@dangercat9188]

I'm Hispanic and I also had straight As in college. I got a psychology degree and I still studying to get an even higher education. I'm a white passing Hispanic but you know how it is here in America, they see a spanish (which is European btw) last name and they think "awww poor Juan or juanita from Mexico" so they just go with the stereotypes first until they actually see you. So maybe I wasn't taken too seriously at first. What? Did they think i was Italian or something? Oh lawwwdd 😂 🤦‍♂️

[@brianlevine249]

Same for med school. Asian students have an insanely hard time getting into the best med schools.

[@lawtraf8008]

Maybe there were other straight A student better than your daughter

[@gabetalks9275]

​​@@dangercat9188I'm also white passing. Everyone thinks I'm white until I tell them I'm Puerto-Rican. Americans just can't comprehend the fact that a hispanic/latino person could be any shade other than brown.

[@darubra]

What studies like these fail to show is the impact on students displaced by affirmative action. How much worse were their outcomes during the AA period? How might their end results have been different if they had been able to attend more prestigious universities given their higher merits? Of course, those are impossible questions to answer but that doesn't mean they should be ignored in the AA debate.

[@barbzfurbernie4560]

That’s called an inconvenient fact, and there’s not a single university left in America that would require a researcher to acknowledge one. Academia has lost any respect it used to have.

[@drethethinker6418]

I doubt the students "displaced" were really that negatively effected because they still have high chances of getting into decent schools even if they don't get into the top schools. I'd even argue the same for the Black and Hispanic students who didn't get into a top university. Like I doubt what they were tracking in this study significantly negatively impacted the top black students especially if they were middle class.

[@GranolaBars11]

Admitting 1-2 otherwise qualified Black students is "displacing" entire races of people? What about the 350+ years Black students were ACTUALLY displaced due to jim crow but asians got admission into these prestigious universities just fine?

[@jimmy79889]

@@drethethinker6418 25% of all students who were admitted to college due to affirmative action drop out. AA doesn't help black people. It hurts them

[@upstar21t]

You expect impartiality and objectivity from a mainstream American media outlet? What are you smoking?😂

[@lishaitung]

You made an entire explainer video without mentioning that Harvard was deploying hateful stereotypes about Asian people to justify denying them admission.

[@ninjaydes]

Interesting. Which page of the court case?

[@silverboltmax]

Was there a reason why Asians weren't discussed here? This case was largely sparked by Asian Americans due to the negative implications of AA. The example where it's mentioned that "if you're low-income and a minority you were in, but if you're high-income and white, you'll need a higher score" doesn't apply to Asians. Studies have concluded that Asians need even higher scores than other minorities AND whites. I dislike this ruling because I do believe there is a net positive to AA for the US. I wish we came to a solution where all marginalized groups, which includes Asians, can benefit.

[@LebronCCP]

Doesn’t fit the narrative, so they left it out

[@pierrelesperance7090]

@@LebronCCPThe average Asian American usually comes from a diff background/level of resources compared to blacks and Hispanics

[@drumyogi9281]

@@pierrelesperance7090Yes. They are more likely to come from a home with a father in it.

[@dangercat9188]

​@@pierrelesperance7090and native Americans. Why do they always get left out?

[@pierrelesperance7090]

@@dangercat9188 very true

[@speedlabchannel4452]

All I hear is diversity. He never bothered to explain why this is a good thing. They should look at WHAT course they actually take

[@MayaMatrixMuktiManifestor]

Fix the PROBLEM, not the SYMPTOM. Provide Blacks & Hispanics all the coaching & private tutoring they need. "You can bring a horse to the water but you can't make a horse drink it." By handicapping merit and natural abilities, the US will be left in the dust competing globally. The Chinese are already producing more patents annually (and Taiwan & S Korea more per head) and in 20 years, India will be right up there. In 20 years, it is questionable whether the US will be able to attract as much top talent from overseas as they do now. It's their last golden goose.

[@babyamyxo-o6c]

Even that's unfair, don't fall for it!!. B&H don't deserve all the resources at the cost of others. The fair solution is the Nordic model with access to universal services for everyone.

[@gdbriot1162]

Affirmative action was the only race related law that is still enforced. Glad to see it go, we are all equal here.

[@Tommydiistar]

Is it not a curious notion that racism has supposedly dissipated, leaving us in a realm of true equality? One might find amusement in the profound affection bestowed upon you by the affluent, right-wing, religious Republicans. It appears that you engage in an act of persistent adulation, diligently attending to the boots they wear, savoring their taste. One can only surmise that this inclination stems from your conviction that such behavior aligns with notions of fairness and merit. However, consider the case of Jared Corey Kushner, a C student whose admission to Harvard was facilitated by his father's pledge of a substantial $2.5 million to the institution. This serves as an exemplification of how wealth gained through illicit means can yield benefits based on the supposed fairness and merit. Similarly, if one's progenitors possess opulence and an affiliation with said school, the odds of admission for that individual increase by 33 percent. Such a notion of fairness seems to elicit a sense of irony, wouldn't you agree?

[@rolandobravium1873]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Yes, no one treats anyone different.

[@Tommydiistar]

@@rolandobravium1873 and idiots will be idiots I guess

[@angelabby2379]

​@@rolandobravium1873the only one triggered are bigot and racist

[@alfonstabz9741]

@@Tommydiistarthat's nothing to do with race that is class. asians are being push out of opportunity because of affirmative actions.

[@stardust4987]

Wouldn't you want students who want to enter medical studies,like Doctors to have the highest scores not be given entrance as part of a quota.

[@martthesling]

Crazy. Bigotry. Ridiculous. Med Students with the highest scores? Insane!

[@nikkoshay5403]

​@@marttheslingI think it's interesting how you put that label on people with good grades.

[@NeoTokyo2040]

But what makes a "good" doctor? It's not only doing well on standardized tests, but emotional intelligence and ability to relate to patients through their lived experiences. No point in having the highest scorer get into med school if they end up having a terrible bedside manner and inability to function as part of a team.

[@vanyaliveshere]

But also, wouldn't a person get kicked out for not passing exams and/or tests? Do you actually care if your doctor was admitted on a quota or not, if they studied well and know what they are doing? Your point doesn't really hold merit.

[@Keesha_Hardy]

⁠@@NeoTokyo2040But why assume that those with high test scores & GPAs wouldn’t have the emotional intelligence & ability to relate to others life experiences? And, why assume that those with lower test scores & GPAs would have the emotional intelligence & ability to relate to others life experiences?

[@keatingyuan830]

Then why don’t do a video on how Asian students improve themselves after prop 209 😂.

[@brendanhoxie2831]

This video is cold, clinical, calculated, racism. Now with AA being illegal, brilliant hard working people will have greater power to benefit the world with their power. This will raise the quality of life for all.

[@albertjose8879]

Yes I’m glad the comment section knows what’s up!

[@albertjose8879]

Yes I’m glad the comment section knows what’s up!

[@bengaljam4550]

A higher score on the SAT doesn't mean someone is brilliant. Could be book smart. Met a lot of Math and science wizards that lacked social skills and common sense. Nephew had an Asian roommate at collage who academically was brilliant but had no idea how to work a washing machine.

[@mzeastcoastgirl390]

brendan

[@machupikachu1085]

@@bengaljam4550 so you want the washing machine social people admitted into the STEM program instead?

[@kaszaspeter77]

I think the admissions standards should solely be academic but if someone is coming from a disadvantaged background, they should get support to try to make that up and achieve better academic results. But lowering standards is not the correct way to handle this situation because in the end you'll have worse doctors, engineers, lawyers etc. You'd want to keep the quality up but increase the pool of people who can achieve that high quality so that there is more competition, which benefits everybody. The way to do this is not to lower standards but to help people who otherwise couldn't to achieve them.

[@gregoryjameson4102]

An inherent issue with this is that many students who would be candidates for top schools have functionally maxed out the academic success that their background will allow them to have.

[@HotPotHob]

Academic success takes an entire child’s and teenage lie to achieve I don’t think that’s something you can make up in the last two years of college/high school with extra support.

[@jaredlowe3927]

I agree in a sense, but sometimes an academic "record" doesn't reflect someone's potential to succeed. I'm sure some people who had a mediocre high school transcript, goes on to college, finds their true passion, and then becomes a rock star lawyer or doctor. Not saying I'm an expert at all this, but I can at least appreciate that solely academic record won't be a reflection on professional success. (But I'm not saying race is either)

[@ashleybrown6299]

As a person that has actually graduated from law school, you will not make it past your 1L year if you aren't prepared to give it your all. The difficulty of a program weeds out students who are not prepared to rise to the occasion. Leveling the playing field by lowering admissions standards gives those students a chance to at least try. Standardized tests and GPA's are not perfect indicators of an individuals likelihood of success in college or even in a particular career. They tell you this even in law school. Your viewpoint ignores an obvious fact: logistically it is impossible to ensure that ALL students with a disadvantaged background in ALL 50 states get their individualized needs met that will allow them to meet high standards.

[@kaszaspeter77]

@@ashleybrown6299 Point taken about the logistical difficulties, but 1) making extra training available to some students is better than to no students AND 2) if they get in and then fail out - aren't they still taking up places of people who would have stood a higher chance of actually graduating?

[@TheAgentOfDeath]

Just want to point out of the statistics they used. For income and degrees it was around 2% decrease. But they zoom in on the y-axis to make it look much bigger. And the black student population decline was natural because they were fewer blacks in California since Hispanic and Asian immigrants increased a lot.

[@h5n-real]

To be honest I think you Americans should address the underlying reasons why black and Hispanic students do worse.

[@Hay8137g]

overpriced ivy and elite schools are the problem.

[@007kingifrit]

there is no underlying reason that anyone wants to talk about....its their own fault

[@Dygit]

@@007kingifritthis is insane

[@Dygit]

@@007kingifritthis is insane and neglecting American history

[@007kingifrit]

@@Dygit no, it just doesn't fit your silly ideology that inequality is a thing to be fixed, inequality is the natural result of different cultures

[@simon88ch]

At the risk of hardly anyone being interested or even denying my opinion on this, since I studied a university in Switzerland, but not in the United States. Nevertheless, I am - admittedly not for the first time - extremely irritated about the discussion. Admittedly, I don't know the admission criteria in the States in detail, because here the admission to higher education and academic careers is exclusively dependent on the previous education, respectively the achieved grades (with the exception of an additional numerus clausus in medicine). By no means the admission to an an academic career is dependent on money, race, or such. Shouldn't that be the case? Shouldn't injustice in terms of race, access to education be solved much earlier than access to the academy? Is it really the task of universities to establish social equality when the institutions before them have failed in this task? Education - from earliest childhood to professorship - should be accessible to all classes, regardless of financial means, race, background, or other external factors.

[@mx2201]

"considering an applicant's race, generally called racism". I fixed it for you 😊

[@jeremy2875]

WSJ implies that absent race, enrollment was based upon merit. This has never truly been the case. Most elite universities have legacy students, arrangements with elite prep schools, enrollees whose parents make donations to the schools. All of this discriminates against poorer students in favor of students from wealthier backgrounds, but the Supreme Court is okay with that form of discrimination.

[@ER1CwC]

That’s right, but the importance of Legacy Admissions has gradually been decreasing. The bigger problem now is that upper class and upper middle class parents can send their kids to feeder schools and special SAT prep classes, let alone (I’m not kidding) help their kids “set up charities” as a way to boost their extracurricular credentials. It’s hard to convince people who do in fact work hard that they nonetheless benefit from structural advantages. In a way, Legacy Admissions is better because those who benefit from it are under no illusions.

[@parabinda]

Great note! That they have been doing for quite sometime.

[@parabinda]

We need to raise a separate court case for that

[@reditoao]

Legacy admissions are justified. Somebody like you will never comprehend this, but that's okay. It is not like you will ever have the chance to set foot on our institutions. Therefore I shall reveal to you something from my personal experience: The top students of my class were all legacy admissions. 😘

[@SeattlePioneer]

WHAT would race discrimination advocates DO without legacy admissions? That's true, but it's not race discrimination. Fifty years of preferential admissions of African Americans presumably means that they can qualify as legacy students now too ----and have the wealth to make million dfollar contributions to universities too. Legacy admissions are a relatively trivial percentage of admissions, while race based affirmative action sieves EVERY school admission.

[@Sarah78888]

It’s clear that affirmative action was outdated. There has to be other ways created to have a student body at a university that is more diverse (and not just race wise). I really get tired of “well meaning” liberals with the bigotry of low expectations for people of certain communities. People from different minority communities can absolutely get into these universities on their own merit.

[@TruuJones]

Things I haven't seen anyone else mention: Free community college, eliminate standardized testing, and stop allowing legacy admissions/ my opinion.

[@michael2275]

@@TruuJones The only one of those that is reasonable is removing legacy admissions. The other two are bad ideas.

[@TruuJones]

@@michael2275 they're only "bad ideas" because ppl don't actually want to do what it takes to get anything done. Affirmative action was a low ball compromise, and like those often go, when it finally backfired on VERY FEW white students, only then did ppl admit it was counterproductive.

[@paulomilan515]

Aww another person who skipped the video to go straight to the comments section.

[@paulomilan515]

​@@michael2275you don't think free college is a good idea?

[@charlielyden5756]

Shouldn’t the focus now shift on how do we help different communities improve SAT scores or improve the prior education of low income schools?

[@chrisx5127]

Na, but we need to get more Asian into sport so professional sport can be more diverse.

[@charlielyden5756]

@@chrisx5127 Cynical but funny

[@brickmoney4152]

@@chrisx5127lmao

[@googleisspyingonyou598]

I am glad that the comments section are pointing out AA’s devastating effect on Asians, something the video and other MSM refuse to discuss.

[@SeattlePioneer]

> The devastating effects are no different for whites. But racism directed at whites is the norm these days.

[@frankcui3834]

In a competition for limited resources, you can help disadvantaged groups improve, level playing field, but you don't give out trophies directly. In education, you help certain group of students with extra help to study, to improve. But you don't just hand them college admission with a watered down standard. Because it will hurts the prestige of the college, especially of those truly outstanding students from the disadvantaged groups. Some people try to associate income with grades. They say richer families can afford better tutoring. Actually there are a lot of free resources available now for students to improve their scores (like SAT). It is more effective to encourage students of stronger desires to improve, and discipline to study. However, this "encouragement" can be political sensitive, because some people would say you are trying to assimilate different cultures.

[@michellem6826]

You really need to see what some students face before you say that. Many poorer students don’t have regular access to computer, are the caregivers for family members, work part time jobs, live in questionable neighborhoods with high crime, are food insecure, lack money to take the SATs and more. Many of the schools don’t teach a secondary language, have AP classes or are so overcrowded that they don’t have books to take home and more. This is not about just work harder. U.S. primary and secondary schools are not equal and more affluent schools are predominantly white or Asian.

[@frankcui3834]

@@michellem6826That is why it is important to have many programs to help them. But giving them the “ trophies” directly is not helping them. The only way they as groups can be as successful as others, is to rely on themselves.

[@michellem6826]

@@frankcui3834 that makes no sense. Gender affirmative action wasn’t removed. Wealth, aka, legacy affirmative action wasn’t removed. Sports affirmative action wasn’t removed. Who you know affirmative action, aka employees getting their kids in was not removed. What about those trophies? Only affirmative action that helps minorities after centuries of oppression was removed without fixing the underlying issues that caused the problem.

[@robertbenitez3647]

@@michellem6826 why not help all minorities?

[@chaklee435]

What is a trophy, and what is a helping hand to level the playing field? College admissions is just a piece of paper, which you can't eat. One trophy that actually matters is higher income, which you can almost certainly eat. So I would say college admissions is a helping hand to level the playing field because it still requires the recipient to better themselves before getting a trophy. So kinda what you are saying is "you can help disadvantaged groups improve, but not like that". Your belief is not precise enough, I think.

[@kbmblizz1940]

We have to face stark reality the USA must compete at the 🌍 stage with STEM/AI/finance prowess. If we hold back our most qualified, hardest working young ppl to make room for social injustice, many they themselves had to overcome as families of low income emigrants. We will surely dig ourselves a deeper hole as other countries don't carry this handicap.

[@Andrew-pc8zn]

Another view would be that we have to sort out domestic issues like racism and injustice before we can flourish in STEM and financial sectors. Having large minority subclasses in the US is not healthy for the economy or stability of our institutions.

[@qweds3127]

I am from India and we have 50% quota for people from historically oppressed castes. It's a big contributing factor because of which India has highest annual number of people moving out .

[@ninjaydes]

The most knowledgeable people I've seen don't end up being involved in AI and global advancements, rather stuck writing research papers that no one will ever read.

[@user-mi8xf8tq1z]

Exactly. It is frustrating to see so many talented, hardworking Asians get denied opportunities while some not so talented people would be selected, only to see them becoming below below average professionals or drop out later on or pursue some other career

[@suls829]

sorry to burst your bubble but those students are not special. colleges care more about your perspective than just your test scores. everyone applying to these schools are crazy smart, so they look at other things. a black student with a 3.98 gpa and broken home would obviously get chosen over an asian student with a 4.0 and supportive parents. what "not so talented people" are you referring to bc no minority is wasting the opportunity of attending an ivy

[@suls829]

btw i am not disregarding asian students hard work, i respect their work ethic but life is not fair

[@Blade.5786]

​@@suls829What kind of statement is that? You think racism should be excused because "life isn't fair"? What about murder? Where do you draw the line?

[@suls829]

@@Blade.5786 its not about race, it's about the environment you grew up in. it says a lot about a student if they can succeed in an environment like that. imagine what they could accomplish with the opportunity of going to an ivy

[@Notiisx]

@@suls829 What? Life is not fair? That's how you justify how minorities get racial bias under AA? I get it, blacks and hispanic students generally perform worse because they are disadvantaged, and so i see where AA is coming from. However, I think it is better to fix the funding for low income household's education, because minorities generally are predominant in low income neighborhoods, and their education is neglected, which leads to lower scores. However, that is not a valid reason why a hard-working person would not be admitted. I think the sweet spot is to consider their academics but also how much work they put in, to balance it out, as first generation college students generally have a tough time getting admitted to good colleges.

[@sgchoe4806]

This is stupid. A demographic which had decrease in enrollment into prestigious colleges experiences decrease in average income and academic achievements? Like, really you think dr.obvious? Thats the whole point of prestigious colleges: having more opportunities. Implementing race as an admission filter is an incredibly lazy solution to a real problem, not to mention the “actual systematic racism” it brings. I get that a specific race is falling behind in education before 18. Then help those students who are falling behind regardless of their race and let everyone go through fair admission process that doesn’t discriminate students based on the colour of their skin! Why should Asian and Caucasian students with higher achievements pay for the failure of public education system? I can’t believe this is an actual article of the WSJ. You call this a study? You guys are supposed to be one of those prestigious journals? What an embarrassment.

[@neilifill4819]

This is a deeply complex issue. Perhaps now that AA has been removed, states need to find ways to equalize school districts. At the moment, many districts allocate resources according to median tax revenue. Higher income areas effectively receive better education. If systems like that weren’t in place, perhaps there really wouldn’t be a need for AA. That’s not the only solution. But it’s clear that lower income people, disproportionately represented by Black, Native, and Brown people, will continue with their disadvantage if we don’t act.

[@ow_su]

Yeah, you're right, but I still feel upset because it means I was born too early to capitalize on this affirmative action, but it's too late to actually receive the effects of equalized education levels lol

[@equinox4901]

I think AA was always made to be a temporary law. What it really wanted was for disadvantaged children to be able to grow up, use their education break a generational cycle, and on a whole bring their racial group to a level where they wouldn't need affirmative action. However, if this is done at a K-12 level it may still have similar effects, and I don't know nearly enough about the school system or politics in the states to be able to tell if that's feasible.

[@stevenperry5592]

Schools in the inner cities receive more revenue then their counterparts in the surrounding suburbs. This has nothing to do with resources.

[@alquinn8576]

higher spending does not equal better education. at the margin, higher funding means more administrators and maybe some fancier facilities, but actual education can be facilitated by little more than a motivated teacher and a chalkboard (look at Jaime Escalante for example). funding correlates to socioeconomic status which correlates to race and confounds the common sense signal that education depends on effective teaching and a culture where students and their parents are motivated enough to care about outcomes.

[@neilifill4819]

@@alquinn8576 thanks for your response. What are some ways that we can improve the system? I think that more funding is a start. I live in a city where poor facilities hamper recruitment efforts for the so-called “good teachers.” I’m interested to hear your perspective because I’m not a K-12 education expert and I chose to have my children go to private schools because the public ones in our area aren’t very good.

[@piligrimius82]

That's my thoughts on the issue. If we want more accurate representation of population in colleges, we should not lower standards on tests we are going to lose as a country globally. Instead, let's invest in the communities where population is underrepresented. The kids in those communities will get better standards of living, better education, better results on tests and as a final result they will be represented equally in universities. Currently we are addressing symptoms instead of root cause. Understandable, because you can get easy points politically during election cycle. But, that's not how we should act in a long run.

[@alejandroparra5782]

They way I see it the issue is not affirmative action. But it’s finding more equatable resources for Hispanic and black students to have access to in order to level the playing field when it comes time to college admission. Because although minority enrollment rates increase, white and Asians are then challenged to do better and have stricter standards. When in reality there may also be white and Asian students struggling as well.

[@aviatorsound914]

If we have a better public education, system then affirmative action would never have been required. Lack of funding and lack of better pay for teacher is a contributing factor. (in my opinion, they should be a federal standard for education)

[@Froward_Thinker]

Sure but you have to explain why a black student who is objectively worse academically deserves a spot over a white or Asian student who is not only better academically but is actually the top of not only their school but the top of the country! The answer isnt more racism at the college level. The answer is fixing everything you listed at K-12!

[@unlimitedcontradiction9023]

The left: “we need to dismantle systemic racism!” SCOTUS: begins to dismantle systemic racism The left: incoherent screeching

[@joeh4638]

I couldn't imagine working hard to get into a program/university .. only to have all my peers believe that I got in due to an AA advantage. I'd hate to be a high functioning professional to have society feel like i got there because people feel guilty for my ancestors and gave me the advantage over a similarly qualified white or Asian person.

[@paulyu6607]

you are smart

[@JA-pn4ji]

Your viewpoint would be credible if we didn't have historical experience behind us. Until the civil rights era, the US discriminated against all non-white races. Asians were not even legally allowed into the US, let alone compete for professional jobs. The civil rights movement successfully swept away discriminatory laws but as those laws were responsible for centuries of structural disadvantages the compensation to those who suffered was not money in damages for the US failing to adhere to its constitution, but positive discrimination in education to uplift the victims. A black person can now equally argue that the state is discriminating against him by not allowing him to inherit the wages and property earned by his enslaved ancestor, after all Asians and White people are allowed ancestral inheritance. If a black person's ancestor worked without earnings to build a plantation, they can argue to seize such property on the basis of the unpaid wages to an ancestor.

[@lawtraf8008]

Why do you assume because they are black or hispanics they aren't qualified ?? Why don't you also doubt white students when 35% of admissions are rich white legacy students whose parents bought their way in ? Lol. Keep your hypocrisy and racism with yourself.

[@insideoutsideupsidedown2218]

Or did not get in because you are the wrong minority.

[@Andrew-pc8zn]

Nobody sees AA this way. They understand that minorities who benefit from AA have had to struggle with racial adversity their whole lives. Racism isn't something that only their "ancestors" experienced when African Americans continue to be shot by police, incarcerated, and assaulted with micro aggressions/discrimination regardless of their income

[@sansoo9497]

I think the question isn't "how can we give everyone a fair shot when some do more poorly than others." the real question should be "why are Africans and Hispanics underperforming in academia." because if you solve that issue, it will fix a lot of issue both in the short and long term. And it isn't racism that ship has sailed and it's more complex and nuanced than "whote myn thik dark skin iky."

[@VMohdude-]

Dude your comment was so reasonable up until that last line, like what? You do realize that isn’t really what people mean when they say racism in the system right.

[@sansoo9497]

@@VMohdude- ok then what did they mean?

[@VMohdude-]

@@sansoo9497 you’re talking about individualized racism but we’re talking about institutionalized racism, that can operate even if people in it aren’t even consciously acting on prejudice.

[@ricya1982]

If Black and Hispanics wanna get in, they just have to work harder, study, focus, dedicate, and show up.

[@maorifishboy]

As a marginalized Polynesian, I'm glad this ruling was approved based on two perspectives: 1) Years ago, I secured a graduate role at a Big 4 Accounting firm through their mainstream recruitment program - I had to compete with over 500 other graduates. At the time of my recruitment, and likely still today, there was a quota-based program for marginalized ethnic groups like Blacks and Polynesians. People often joked that I got the job solely because of the quota, undermining my abilities in critical thinking, project management, and other skills. This assumption based on my skin color made me feel as though I required "additional help" to succeed; whereas, I landed the job based on merit! 2) Affirmative action can mistakenly imply that marginalized groups are intellectually inferior and incapable, leading to the need for lowered standards. However, my Polynesian heritage and people are far from being dumb, we circumnavigated the world using stars, created architectural wonders, and can orally trace our history back to our earliest ancestors. We are far from being unintelligent or incapable. I'm always for my people to succeed but the key is to enhance awareness and access to opportunities for marginalized individuals to succeed by showcasing the available options and not creating a 'dumb-down' version of getting it.

[@rolandobravium1873]

So back to zero for everyone. Seems like only white people and API folks seem to have their panties in a bunch. Affirmative action was made for your purpose. Go. Read. Some. History. Or did you skip that at your accounting school?

[@WampusWrangler]

This video did get to the crux of the problem with affirmative action, although it seems like the people who produced it don't realize what it is they're getting at here. When we talk about AA it seems like what we are really getting at is how many black or hispanic students get admitted to the highest most ivy league colleges in the nation, and not just college in general. Your average person regardless of race or background has a slim to none chance of getting into these schools or even being able to afford them in the first place. So when we talk about AA being racial justice it is under the pretense that racial justice just means having a more diverse make up of those who go on to become elites in this country - the wallstreet stock brokers, the politicians and lobbyist, the old money clubs of bankers, etc. Is that really what we should be striving for in order to have a racially just society? Also worth noting that even for minority students who attend elite universities, many came from wealthy privileged backgrounds in the first place. It seems like basing this decision on class would be more just than what AA gives us. And beyond that, ensuring that people who aren't privileged enough to attend ivy league schools in the first place still have access to higher education and a secure future would do far more good for far more people.

[@mr_knowitall]

No. it talked about Prop 209 which affected all of California and they explained how life outcomes for ALL black and Latino Californian students has fallen since Prop 209 passed.

[@amirakassem-yq7lq]

exactly

[@GranolaBars11]

Are you, ignorantly, implying that racism doesn't affect a person's outcomes just as class does? Are you also implying that class isn't already accounted for despite the fact that you can ONLY get a scholarship to Harvard if you're destitute?

[@jimmy79889]

@@GranolaBars11 Class and race are very different. There are poor white kids and poor black kids. Race has nothing to do with that. Just because you are black doesn't mean that you are automatically a victim You see how judging people based on the color of their skin is racist?

[@Rudenbehr]

A lot of Ivy League blacks are immigrants of government officials and executives in Africa

[@ehinspections]

I am hispanic went to a Community college, work hard, transferred to a four year college and got a degree in Civil Engineering. Why are they suggesting that to succeed in life one has to go to an Ivy League School?

[@HarryMonn]

If you wanna help low income people, then make the criteria for preference low income. This should honestly be based on class, race should not be a factor. A rich black kid should not be prioritized over a poor white one.

[@mevech]

Shouldn't we make high school education more equal? It's a bit unfair that some students studied hard, but don't get into the college they want to because of their race.

[@godzilla101188]

It’s also unfair that through the ages, students work hard but still don’t get in due to legacy admission, why aren’t legacy admissions unconstitutional?

[@larryw5533]

Simple. Elect someone who supports school vouchers and disband the teachers union. Stop giving people more money that promise a different outcome with the same results. That's the definition of insanity.

[@napoleon3026]

@@godzilla101188that’s the business of university There’s nothing in constitution to prohibit an institution from favouring the children of it’s former alumni or top athletes since it’s theoretically not based on race or religion So the institution out of these ethics that it pretends to have when it defends AA should accept accountability and reduce legacy admissions

[@godzilla101188]

@@napoleon3026 private Catholic universities would like to have a word with you 😂. But you are correct, we need an amendment to change that, just a matter of how to make it sound as just as possible

[@keldonb2240]

@@larryw5533Disband the teachers Union? Teachers deserve fair wages just like any other position, especially one that is teaching the next generation. There is already a teacher shortage as is.

[@conchobar]

I'm waiting for someone to show me how race based affirmative action plays a larger role than Athletics, Gender balancing, and legacy/donor kids in College Admissions.

[@mimo5853]

Why are you “waiting for someone to show” you? Do the work and research those things (like this group bringing this case did the work for their case). None of those issues were in this case. It was about race based admissions. You’re welcome to file a suit for the other issues if you desire.

[@youngpark9050]

Accepting a star athlete to subsidize dozens of students is a far cry from race based discrimination. I would do more research on legacy students. Legacy students who apply to the college with financial aid don't actually get preferential treatment in enrollment rates. Colleges do not want to accept students who are not able to translate their education into financial success - think vice versa for donor students.

[@davidnunnally8782]

It would be interesting to hear a debate (constructive, informative) with Thomas Sowell, who has argued that AA students often struggle academically at high end schools, where they are enrolled with students with the highest scores, etc. These same students would do well at other schools and their future lives. However, being placed in with top 1% students, it can be difficult for AA students to keep up, become frustrated, drop out, and worse. Of course, many students do succeed--and that's a great achievement. But what about those students who fail because they were misplaced into the wrong school? To me, "AA student" is offensive; I wouldn't want to be labeled with that, at school or work. The Supreme Court did the right thing.

[@girlwithathought2940]

black students at Harvard, Princeton and Yale graduate at higher rates than any other race. to think that an institution like Harvard is admitting candidates, black or otherwise that wouldn't be exceptional and perform well is truly undermining the intelligence of the institution.

[@amrkw1998]

If you want to increase diversity in short time just don't ask for higher tuitions bro... or make people pay proportionally to their family income.

[@noIdostuff]

the type of diversity schools need to maintain is diversity of thought

[@crustycupcake110]

As an economist myself, that studies some gender/racial discrimination, people need to really grasp that idea that just because something is not brought up in a video does not mean the researchers of the topic fell victim to some oversight. WSJ put the video together, somebody made a choice to include and exclude certain things to fit a particular video length in mind. There is way too many comments suggesting researchers are failing to account for X or didnt look at the relationship between A and B. Trust me, they most likely did, and if they didnt then go read the discussion section of any paper and you will most likely find motivation for why they did not.

[@tangli9425]

Did the presenter study the positive effects on the Asian students due the change in California 25 years ago ?

[@bryantagas]

If so, the WSJ didn’t care.

[@markmaugle4599]

The place to fix problem of collage admissions is in grade school and high school. Work on fixing the basic education system.

[@Cosmo87-]

College undergrad degrees are mostly useless these days. Ask anyone with a ton of student loan debt and not a high paying job what they think of their college education.

[@Cosmo87-]

@thebestasmr2403 you probably still need to go grad school even with an engineering degree

[@hadamerryweather577]

For black and brown students: Community college is a good place to get the skills and ability to transfer to the favorite 4 year college, because the rigor needed to succeed and not drop out can be refined. Plus, it saves money. Lots of room at your favorite college if you go in as a 3rd year student, because so many drop out after the 2nd year.

[@ricya1982]

I am Asian and did the same. My first year was at City college taking out all the general ed classes because they were $10/unit at the time (early 2000s) in California. Why take those classes for $1,000/unit in university, even state university? After that first year, I transferred to a private University and saved a ton of money. Making 6 figures now... well, for over 10 years now.

[@AlumniQuad]

Yeah, but the narrative that we're supposed to accept without question (according to this video) is that unless you're admitted to the Premium Educational Brand institutions, your life is going to be one of grinding privation. According to this video, if you're only admitted to the institutional systems that were expressly set up to ensure access to higher education for all (e.g., the California State University system), you're condemned to a fate worse than death.

[@oofin7868]

To provide more dark cases for this year university acceptance, only from what I know this year from my son’s high school: one girl who cancelled her AP physics after two weeks of participation ( due to realizing the difficulty) got into physics department of Berkeley, one boy that only finished preliminary level math course ( at least three levels down from the top AP math) got into Berkeley math department. One boy who got USAPHO(Olympic Physics medal) got rejected by Berkeley EE department, which need a great sense of physics. The first two are hispanic, the third one is American-born Chinese. This phenomena is becoming quite prevalent, happening in other neighboring high schools.

[@anastasiab9506]

and then they complain when people start avoiding certain demographics when choosing, say, doctors- because they don't want to die on the operating table because of some "affirmative action" doctor

[@thebordernow]

So the Hispanic boy and girl "got in," but will they "get out" - as actual Berkeley-quality physics and math majors? Or, will they also be "passed" along at Berkeley so that the school can keep its DEI percentages up?

[@margielaaa]

source: trust me bro

[@oofin7868]

@@thebordernow I believe Berkeley already figured out the way to pass these under qualified students. Too many such cases as under qualified kids into Berkeley. I think the employer shall screen their high school transcripts during job interview, to understand how they got in

[@thebordernow]

@@oofin7868 I wonder what these kids' Berkeley peers think of them?... "Everyone" must know they got an AA pass to get in...

[@zakariyamohamed9035]

Solve the root cause of the issue. Single parenting and drugs and gangs

[@mtom2237]

It’s sad how no discussion of family and culture comes into the discussion. Race is not the issue, poverty is not the issue. The issue is the culture of the home and community one grows up in. Jaime Escalante changed the culture of his students, and they succeeded in difficult math. John Taylor Gatto did the same.

[@Andrew-pc8zn]

It is most definitely a race issue because African Americans continue to be discriminated against for their skin color. Incarceration, police brutality, and daily micro aggressions are all overt forms of discrimination independent from economic factors. The legacy of slavery and jim crow, which fyi only ended 60 years ago, are race based causes for the surface level issues like poverty, health, etc.

[@domerame5913]

@@Andrew-pc8zn Proof that this is caused by discrimination? hint: don't link journalism

[@Andrew-pc8zn]

​@@domerame5913 I have a good friend who said both him and his mother (elderly) have had guns pulled on them during traffic stops. I also know people who work with African American servers and see them being treated far worse than their peers daily. Racism did not die in 1960. Think about the repercussions of feeling like a foreigner in your own country (mental health/confidence) independent of institutional racism that block them from progressing. Maybe you are African American so I won't pretend to have a better grasp on racism than you. I've just combined firsthand accounts from friends and reading but you didn't want me to mention journalism

[@illfyouup]

@@Andrew-pc8zn everybody in a way gets discriminated for their skin color from an other with different or with the same skin color, you only see one side and ignore the others, you dont speak to seek you speak to convince yourself what your saying is the only truth

[@merrymachiavelli2041]

In the beginning, one _very socially uncomfortable_ factor I wonder about is the impact of the heredity of IQ. The thing is, we _know_ that: A. IQ is highly heritable - about 75% of the variation in individual IQ is determined by genetics B. IQ predicts test performance pretty well C. People with higher IQs will tend to earn more money D. People with higher IQs/more money will tend to reproduce with each other None of those facts are controversial, there are studies which backup each of those elements. When you play that out over many generations, it seems pretty likely you are going to get a scenario where children born in higher income households will be genetically predisposed to having higher IQs. That doesn't necessary mean racial differences in IQ (especially as a mean across the entire population), but it probably does have an impact at the higher end of the IQ distribution.

[@brian8507]

Nah race is directly correlated to iq... it's a sad fact that no one can solve

[@Brian-ek6no]

​@@brian8507well let's see...ebonics vs English

[@domerame5913]

Now don't go looking for a causal relationships in statistics that account for zero confounding variables, that's a right-wing dog whistle.

[@LifeisaBeautifulting]

@@brian8507So why is it that Africans perform well and African-Americans don't? This was a very dumb statement

[@brian8507]

@@LifeisaBeautifulting so I am a data scientist.... and I have the perfect answer for ya. People who move here from Africa are self selecting themselves. You need to be smart to make that huge move

[@techsamurai11]

I'm shocked that racism can still exist in colleges - the pressure it placed on asian students to succeed is nothing short of criminal.

[@chrisx5127]

We need reparation for Asian! Decades of harm done and stolen opportunity!

[@Hay8137g]

Any Whyte person that defends AfAction is dealing w Whyte guilt.

[@007kingifrit]

i think blacks owe whites reparations for college admissions also

[@suls829]

@@chrisx5127 AA was the closest thing to reparations that black people will ever get. meanwhile japanese Americans got 20k each after being incarcerated in camps.

[@LifeisaBeautifulting]

You placed it on yourselves. Academic rigor is very common in Asian culture, so of course you're gonna have to overachieve to actually stand out

[@SK-lt1so]

Break the grip of the Dem supported teacher's unions on public education in low income areas. They are the problem.

[@forgottenman8629]

the are indeed and that death grip preventing vouchers to go forward in 'all' states for any and all who 'choose' that route...

[@victoriap6836]

Why is it an assumption that ALL black students don’t work hard? Why are black people blamed for things that are done to other minorities? Why is it assumed that ALL black children grew up on public assistance? I’m tired of this monolithic view of black peoples in America.

[@Codacoli]

Well to be more exact, they are making these assumptions on black-Americans based on their data. Immigrants from Africa actually do really well academically, very different cultures.

[@mimo5853]

And why is it assumed that Whites & Asians all come from wealthy, well funded, affluent schools & homes, where the kids ended up so advanced that they need to be restricted in their access to top tier Universities? We really need to stop seeing people as members of a racial group, and start seeing people as unique individuals.

[@youngpark9050]

I don't think they're making assumptions of all black people. They're looking at data to outline that they disproportionately grow up on public assistance and perform poorly in school.

[@scooterbob4432]

@@Codacoli Like Asian Americans, African immigrants know that to succeed in America, it's having a good education and lots of hard work early in life.

[@alquinn8576]

@@scooterbob4432 yup, step 1 is not blaming others for your own problems, and that is a hard step when the Woke gatekeepers deny reality

[@vclan7769]

This is a perfect example of focusing on correlation & not causation. Certainly, considering race vis outcome paints a nice correlation, but is not the root-cause. Using race based affirmative action across multiple generations is un-doubtely discriminatory, and unhealthy for the overall society. It is actually even more unfair to minorities who might be truly deserving of affirmative action, as the privileged minorities take away a bigger chunk of the affirmative action pie. Additionally, race is a gray area in today's inter-mingled civilization. Like most have already said, the root causes needs to be identified and addressed here, and potentially only have income based affirmative action as that is one variable that truly matters.

[@mrgold3591]

It is all income based and lack of resources. There are just as many white Americans experiencing this as Black, Hispanics, Native Americans, and Asians. It was more noticeable with minority groups because of centuries laws forcing them being segregated in tighter communities with limited resources without a clear avenue to improve their lives. A poor white boy in Mississippi could grow up to be Elvis Presley; while, a poor black boy across the same town could only grow up to be a poor black man. Affirmative Action will never be a perfect solution; but, how do you close that income and resource gap so affirmative action is no longer needed.

[@vclan7769]

@@mrgold3591 You pretty much re-iterated my point. Like you said ‘It was’ noticeable in minority groups 2-3 generations back. Today a poor black has about the same or even at times more resources to succeed than a poor white or poor asian. Civilization can never completely close the income gap, thats why, all thats needed is an income based affirmative action and scholarships to support the weakest in the society, all the way from K to College.

[@mrgold3591]

@@vclan7769 Let me know what those 2X-3X resources are only poor blacks have access to and not poor whites, Asiain, Hispanics, or Native Americans? Income base is only a part of the factors needed. Based on 100% income will have the same effect as 100% on race. There needs to be a balance approach with all of the above. Not every group is at the same level of the "American dream". You know this because would your life now be exactly the same if you were born white, blacke, Asian, Hispanic, or Native American? I grew up as a military brat in the 70s on Army bases or neighborhood very close to them. That was very close to being "color blind" because the mixed races, interracial marriages, and everything based on achievement in your uniform and not the color of your skin.

[@vclan7769]

@@mrgold3591 You realize there are several scholarships that are only accessible to minority races. Race based quotas and affirmative action only divide & polarize the society more rather than solve the root cause of the issue at hand. It's understandable that affirmative action was needed 50 years back, but, why don't you answer the simple questions. Why should a minority family that has benefitted from affirmative action for 2-3 generations and earning 300k today have a different yardstick than a white/asian earning 300k ? How do you measure someone who is 1/2 race or 1/8 race, give them a partial benefit? Hard to see where this road leads. We need continuous efforts to iron the root causes, not treat symptoms.

[@mrgold3591]

@@vclan7769 Unfortunately, the root cause isn't being addressed. The poor are still poor and underserved with limited programs and resources available with local, state, and federal cutbacks. My parents went to a segregated school in West Virginia in the late 40s/50s. College wasn't an option and it was the coal mines or enlist into the military. It wasn't until programs like the G.I. Bill, Affirmative Action, and fair housing put my parent in the same position as many white Americans enjoyed; but, it wasn't until the mid 80s when they felt things starting to change. Affirmative Action has been around for several centuries; but, only for white males. It is amazing how the same white male are saying how unfair giving a group a "leg up" is lo bad when the shoe is on the other foot. Affirmative action will not be needed when your life would be the same if you are born white, blacke, Hispanic, Asian, or Native American.

[@jayh1391]

Schools are funded with budget from that city and county. So if you live in Beverly Hill, school can have pool, air conditioning, etc If you live in Compton, school can't even fix broken window. State must distribute all school funds EQUALLY to each school. So all students have opportunity to apply to college.

[@amoldate588]

Well in that case everyone should pay equal amount of property tax which funds schools and I am not even saying equal percentage.

[@insideoutsideupsidedown2218]

No. The money should go to the student and follow the student to whatever school they want to go to. Private school, religious school, etc. Those pos schools in Compton would be gone. They are nothing but money pits that keep the status quo. School choice is happening now in many states and if students go to a good school and bring poor cultural choices with them, they will not be at that school for long.

[@thetrainhopper8992]

It’s not just about the money, but who runs the schools. Having 20 school districts in the same county will just lead to segregation. At the point, it doesn’t matter if the schools in poorer areas get more money. I work in a school district like that and we’re treated as a stepping stone for administrators and our school board is a joke. Where at the point where the worst schools in Vegas out perform our average schools and we get nearly $6,000 more per student than them! The main difference is that there is only one school district per county, so they have to work for everyone, not just the people they’re stuck with or blessed to have.

[@mistakemadeinjamaica6014]

@@85testarossa22not everybody has opportunities to get high paying jobs and pay for houses that cost WAY more than used to 😭 open your eyes

[@andyiswonderful]

Just look at the numbers. If education is not valued at home, then you can throw all the cash in the world at the school, and the kids will still fail. How many times do you have to do the same experiment???? Your argument is just so tired and out-of-touch.

[@aarondoyle4717]

Calling racism affirmative action doesn’t make it not racism. Considering race when giving opportunities or oppressing someone is racism. You don’t fix racism with more racism.

[@metalmythology6282]

Why cant we just hire people based off how qualified they are, and put qualified students in the colleges they earned the right to enter? Is exactly the questions civil rights advocates were asking in the 1950s. This is all that has to be said

[@grantstidham9322]

It's because there is an agenda behind all this. All goes back to keeping the Democrats in power by manufacturing a problem so that everyone will accept their affirmative action solution.

[@scxble]

Did you watch the video? Inequalities of the past cannot be fixed by "race-neutral" policies today. Ignoring race in California admissions reduced the future income of minority students and perpetuated the cycle of systematic inequality. The only way to break to cycle is systematic investment in minority communities. Let's not forget Plessy v. Ferguson was also a "race-neutral" decision. The 14th amendment was not designed to be colorblind, it was designed to protect minorities and integrate them into a racially equitable society--which cannot be done by completely ignoring race.

[@michellem6826]

One of the issues mentioned in the video is income, of which Black and Hispanic and some Asian do not have in comparison to Whites. If you live in a more affluent area the resources, schools, tutoring and more is common. Example: Having your own computer at home and at school versus only having access to a computer once a week at school. The poor person isn’t dumb, just lack more opportunities that the wealthy students had. This is why some colleges are getting rid of the SATs and ACTs. Also, these test don’t determine how well you will do in school. Asians as a whole are not high scoring, just the ones that come from more affluent backgrounds or backgrounds with more opportunities.

[@mimo5853]

@@michellem6826Why do people think White people all come from wealthy affluent areas with amazing top tier schools??? 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. A small segment of Whites are considered very wealthy, most are middle class/lower middle class and a lot are considered low income……but because they’re skin is white it’s automatically assumed they are wealthy & privileged??? Psssst your racism is showing.

[@bobbywise2313]

​@@michellem6826If schools were allowing a lower standard based on ones income it probably would be constitutional. The problem is letting race be a factor. The equal protection clause of the 14th amendment seems to no allow racial discrimination. But I think income could be used. Although I could see an argument against that as well.

[@verbosequestion]

Imagine being the kind of ideological social planner that questions whether admissions or job hiring based purely on merit and skill might be 'harmful' to people.

[@hotspot930]

With or without AA, it depends on the students who are studying hard to attain and achieve greatness. I’m Asian studied in a community college and graduated postgraduate degree in a not so popular university. But now I’m earning a 6-digit income per year (2++k) and promoted 3x. Outsmarting those who studied at Harvard or Stanford. Basis of success after college/university: LIFE EXPERIENCES! At the end of the day, it’s not your school who will put you to the top but your character, attitude and work ethics. More importantly, discipline and always remember to respect others/co-workers and stay focus on your goals. Above all, always pray to our Lord Jesus Christ to give you wisdom. Wisdom to help others.

[@ednaamck3831]

Your writing skills are terrible though.

[@kmkcorner]

Increased support for those at risk populations at an early age will have more positive effects than simply lowering the bar for their college admission. Raising the necessary funds to do this is a lot harder than simply telling schools how to admit students, but the best solution is not always the easiest.

[@superkickass]

yes but doesn't do anything for the problem at hand now. that will get worst before it gets better. doing things to youth now you need to wait 20 years to see the effects... and when it comes to politics thats 5 terms in office. for reference of why politicians are usually against that. the stuff bush did for early education during the iraq war is only coming to tuition in bidens administration.

[@Notiisx]

Exactly. Low income neighborhoods generally have predominantly black and hispanic communities. Their funding needs to be increased so that their education they recieve is the same, rather than lowering the bar for them. Sadly, politics stops this from happening.

[@kamijoutouma2045]

@@Notiisx sometimes money won't solve the problem. Change their culture just like to ours, Asians, who needs to do their assignments and do good in school or else face the fear of being disowned. Blacks and Hispanics don't really experience that from their parents, only Asians lol

[@ryerye9019]

6:44 This makes a whole lot sense and reinforces the theory of "social capital". A poor student going to an elite university benefits more from the social connections. A wealthy student benefits little and maintains their class status regardless of how naturally talented their classmates are. That's how Clarence Thomas made it to the Supreme Court. It's not what you know, but who you know. So when we talk about higher education, we are really talking about class advancement.

[@biaohan4358]

The observation is not without contingencies. Basically if the majority of the elite University stay the same, putting in a small number of poor students will definitely benefit them because they will make useful connections to those wealthy students that will benefit their future life. However if the majority of elite University become poor students, they won't make useful connections any more. This is what the original AA policy was about -- to blend in small number of students from underrepresented groups so those underrepresented groups will gradually change because of these people. However after a few decades it has went too far, creating huge unfairness not only in college admission but also all over the place. It's time to give it a break.

[@qweds3127]

"It's not what you know, but who you know" Very few companies give a sh** about who you know . Mostly, It's all about whether you can get the job done or not that gets you hired .

[@team3am149]

I think it’s time we stop pretending more diverse = better. Best person for the job, as it should be.

[@vanallen1673]

It's not about racial representation. It's about fairness in rewarding an individual's efforts and achievements.

[@ILikeMyPrivacytbt]

Fair is not everybody getting the same, it's everybody getting what they deserve. -Young Sheldon

[@fitnessnbeer9835]

Omg I made the tremendous mistake of clicking into a polarizing comment thread🤦🏽‍♂️. Drives me nuts that so MANY think they’re right without considering the opinions and perspectives of others.😢 We also think we’re right without considering where our own beliefs come from. We forget to recognize that education, RACE, socio-economics, locale, and parentage, play into our belief systems. Most of us are a combination of our upbringing, education, and surroundings. And today it’s easier than ever to surround ourselves with like minded people and rhetoric to further convince us that our own opinions are the right opinions. How about we try listening to an opinion that doesn’t align with our own beliefs with a truly open mind and consideration for others?!

[@freezy8593]

It doesn’t matter, if your denying someone the ability to learn at a school where they’re more qualified and more well rounded than other candidates but simply get rejected because of their ethnicity, it makes the admissions rigged from the start and it is good that more attention is being brought to it and it’s unfair barring of specific groups of people! Specifically Whites and Asians, and even those who do get accepted, are held to a higher standard to get in and to maintain scholarships! That just makes it harder for the Whites and Asians to succeed.

[@summersnow7296]

I don't get it. If a holistic review of a person is effective in assessing a candidate, why include race? Holistic reviews give people a fairer chance than just basing on grades alone. So leave skin color out of the mix.

[@joeberg3317]

A good point!

[@mjgallagher8367]

Would be interesting to know what these effects had on graduation rates (vs entry rates) for all the above. After all that is what is at stake here.

[@jimmy79889]

Just look at the GPAs. Not hard to see that people who were admitted to college based on affirmative action tended to, 25%, drop out of college. AA actually hurt black students, not help them

[@Nonamearisto]

SAT and GPA should make up most of that circle. Essays are only useful as a tie-breaker, extracurriculars are a supplement, recommendations are minor at best, awards only really should apply to very specific subjects (like a math award for a math major), and "leadership" at age 17-18 is so meaningless as to be worthy of erasure as well. Teenage leadership. We're talking real life here, not the Power Rangers.

[@anonb6358]

Standardized testing like SAT puts low-income kids at a disadvantage because they cannot afford the prep classes or expensive books like kids that come from more privileged backgrounds can.

[@keldonb2240]

This sounds like it came from someone who did well on the SAT but did literally nothing else of note, or is just not very interesting.

[@Nonamearisto]

@@keldonb2240 I had plenty of extracurriculars back in 2006, thank you very much. And the SAT had an essay section at the time.

[@anonb6358]

@@keldonb2240 That's not true at all and the fact that you decide to try and attack a person instead of offer some kind of solution or insight says something.

[@Nonamearisto]

@@anonb6358 That's like saying basketball puts short people at a disadvantage, so the rules must change.

[@nazomius7033]

I’m so glad that this policy is finally overturned. Even though I’m Asian, it’s not like it affected me anyways since I got into the college I wanted to get into. But the fact that this policy was never overturned earlier is baffling.

[@SeattlePioneer]

The CONGRESS made race discrimination in college admissions illegal in 1965. But the courts couldn't stand that, and have been extenuating race discrimination ever since under the guise of "diversity." They courts couldn't bear the idea of doing away with race discrimination, as long as THEY could manage it. MAYBE that is changing.

[@iExploder]

Strike down legacy admissions next, then, or else you've just enshrined pre-existing discrimination as law.

[@MrMelomalo]

Strike down Asian cheating as well. Do a little research. Asians have a long history of organized cheating on SAT and other U.S. exams because the U.S. allows them to take these tests overseas and they have a cheating network in the U.S. that helps then (for money) when they get here. College Board dismissed all Asian test scores a few years back because of nation wide cheating but still allows the testing in foreign countries because the college board collects money for every test taken. Don't believe me, here are some news articles and there are thousands more. Just google Asian SAT cheating schemes and see how the Chinese and Korean governments are involved. Here this will help you get started. Chinese cheating rampant in U.S. college applications, and in classrooms Eduardo Neret | Associate Producer, Fox News May 30, 2020, 1:00 am ET Fake transcripts and essays, falsified letters of recommendation and test scores, paid consultants, and fake passports and IDs. These are just some of the many methods that Chinese nationals have reportedly used to gain acceptance into U.S. colleges and universities. What once might have been a few isolated incidents has now turned into a vast, international money-making industry. Hiu Kit David Chong, an admissions official at the University of Southern California (USC), pleaded guilty in April to wire fraud in and helping Chinese students defraud their college applications. According to the Department of Justice, Chong admitted to making $40,000 from clients over the years by providing “false college transcripts with inflated grades,” “fraudulent personal statements,” and “phony letters of recommendation” for the applications of his Chinese clients. He also offered to provide surrogate test takers for the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL) exam for international students. INSIGHT -Asian students cram for SATs with bootleg tests By By Irene Jay Liu HONG KONG, April 29 (Reuters) - As students around the world cram for this Saturday’s SAT college entrance exam, many in Asia are poring over old tests in hopes the College Board will again reuse a test that has leaked ahead of time. These bootleg tests are widely available on Chinese websites to download for free. Students and tutors were amazed in January after thousands who flocked to regional testing hubs in Hong Kong and Singapore discovered they were given the same exam administered in Asia the previous June. In the intervening months, copies of the exam freely circulated on the web, giving students in Asia a leg up in the fight for prized slots at premier U.S. universities. The recycled test was all the more surprising because the College Board, which owns the SAT, has been plagued for years by test leaks and other security breaches in Asia.

[@sdkfgnrjdi]

South Korean education system incorporates some form of relative evaluation. It means that even if a student receives a slightly lower score on a national exam, they have an opportunity to make up for it through their achievements within the school. In this way, the system attempts to reduce the impact of environmental factors such as neighborhood and school quality. While I support the idea of creating a system that considers factors like household income and living environment to alleviate disadvantages, it is illogical to make race itself a criterion for such considerations. For this reason, I welcome the supreme court's decision.

[@SeattlePioneer]

[@johnster02]

i’m confused about why there is such controversy. in 2022 68-75% of people wanted it abolished. why are we letting the *literal* minority of people make us feel like it was a bad thing. we wanted this

[@isabelamogosanu7777]

i dont think anyone is upset. i think most people are just discussing the implications and how AA was misguided. how we do need some system to ensure minorities dont slip through the cracks early on. possibly removing property tax as the only funding for public schools which leaves minority schools underfunded. etc. its a complex discussion. AA wasnt the right solution but getting rid of it isnt a solution to the overall problem. just a correction of a misstep

[@alquinn8576]

it looks like large numbers of people are upset because the vast majority of MSM is saying how terrible it is. reality is warped by the New Woke Times and other garbage-media

[@ninjaydes]

The 68-75% isn't helpful information... What percent of those people were White/Asian? I am against AA, but the court ruling is a win for Asian Americans at the cost of African Americans and Latinx who need to have representation in fields like med. But it does boil all down to needing better early education like the above reply said. We value college too much; primary/secondary should be where the bulk of the knowledge is at. As long as employers trust everyone they hire had a solid education before college, who gets into Ivies shouldn't matter.

[@johnster02]

@@ninjaydes you make a good point but 68-78% is the US population (or voting age and qualified adults). naturally the stat be 70% white as the US is 70% white give or take.

[@alquinn8576]

@@ninjaydes "Latinx" lol